Messy deletion?

June 26, 2006 2:45 PM

This post was deleted for the following reason: what a mess

So that's the barometer now for thread deletion? It doesn't have a clear purpose, goal, or problem to be solved, is too chatty OR there's enough douchebags misbehaving in it?

This precedent sucks.
posted by phearlez to Etiquette/Policy at 2:45 PM (52 comments total)

This MeTa post will be closed for the following reason: what a mess
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:47 PM on June 26, 2006

had it coming.
posted by puke & cry at 2:48 PM on June 26, 2006

there are many many ask's that i am sorry to see remain undeleted, but i have yet to care that any was deleted.
posted by crush-onastick at 2:49 PM on June 26, 2006

When will people realize there is no precedent here?

There will never come a time when you go "mathowie, you deleted that DUI thread and now you must delete this new thread" and it'll matter.
posted by smackfu at 2:52 PM on June 26, 2006

Actually the answer was originally 'yes', but so many provisos were added after the the initial post the answer slowly changed to 'sort of', finally reaching a muted olive 'hmm'. Curious.
posted by econous at 2:55 PM on June 26, 2006

I think that, if there was a real question to be answered here, there were a great number of answers offered and the asker read several. As the asker wanted a "yes" or "no", he's bound to have worked out a good general reaction.

So you're pissed about some editorial strike-out, but look at what that AskMe (usually the last pale thread of purpose on the 'Filter) thread, had turned into. It was a bad question, it received bad answers, it was hijacked it was derailed it was irrecoverable - had Mattamyn gone through and erased the terrible bits do you imagine that the axe-grinders would have called off the show?

I agree that thread deletion is an unpleasant last resort, but I think it's either that or locking the doors on shitstorms and throwing the room and everyone in it into the deepest river. This question was asking for a last resort.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 2:56 PM on June 26, 2006

Dude brah!
posted by freebird at 3:03 PM on June 26, 2006

This precedent is great. We should have a "what a mess" flag.
posted by brain_drain at 3:06 PM on June 26, 2006

not the precedent, but a continuation thereof.
posted by boo_radley at 3:09 PM on June 26, 2006

I think we need a script that randomly deletes 1 in every 100 threads just to keep us on our toes.
posted by public at 3:14 PM on June 26, 2006

I think the problem with it was that it had descended into a pissing contest between the questioner and several of the respondents. There was one early attempt to clean it up by removing the most contentious comments, but the pissing contest continued. I'm not at all surprised that it was closed.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 3:21 PM on June 26, 2006

here in michigan, if the judge felt there was hope, the friend would be placed into "sobriety court". it's a year long program which involves rising daily at 5:30am and placing a call to an automated device which informs you if you need to report at 7am for the piss test. missing the call is automatic two days in the slam. missing the piss test is automatic 4 days. the friend visits a probation officer weekly who can, at any time, and for pretty much any reason, remand him to jail. sentencing is delayed until completion or forfeiture of the program. successful completion of the program can mitigate the sentence, but does not guarantee escaping incarceration. 4th DUI is a serious felony in this state - we're not talking jail, we're talking prison time.

the deletion and the reason for it both suck.
posted by quonsar at 3:27 PM on June 26, 2006

It was 4th degree DUI, not a 4th DUI, quonsar.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 3:29 PM on June 26, 2006

The reasons for deletion are provided for no other reason than Matt (or Jessamyn) wants to. If they don't feel like explaining why that thread was a clusterfuck then they don't have to and they can just summarize with "what a mess" and it was.

I think the AskMe should have been deleted before it got going but I'm lazy that way. It saves cleanup later. It was a bad AskMe, asked badly and responded to badly, was there really going to be anything useful coming out of the thread? Probably not.

quonsar, I think you misread, it was a 4th degree DUI, not a 4th DUI. But I like the program you wrote about.
posted by fenriq at 3:30 PM on June 26, 2006

or one that scans new posts for "moratorium" and "precedent" and inserts surreptitious misspellings.
posted by boo_radley at 3:33 PM on June 26, 2006

This thread is already being discussed below.

On the posting page it says don't ask a stupid question and don't be an ass. I would argue DUIs plus probation plus court time and the question about whether to smoke pot or not is pretty dumb, and the person that asked it followed it up with a bunch of infighting with other people that should have ignored it and moved on. I wouldn't say it was all their faults because it reads like one of the dumbest questions to date, but in the end it was such a mess it was beyond repair, so it's deleted.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:34 PM on June 26, 2006

quonsar: the deletion and the reason for it both suck.

What on earth does your preceding paragraph detailing the seriousness of the crime and the way probation officers work have at all to do with me deleting it and posting the reason? You say it like if I left it up, people would live and I'm a jerk for it. It sounds like the "friend" shouldn't touch drugs or alcohol for a very long time and they are likely to spend some time in jail/prison for it. To me it was an obvious dumb question filled with lame antagonistic answers that became a clusterfuck when the original poster wanted to fight everyone over it.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:38 PM on June 26, 2006

had Mattamyn gone through and erased the terrible bits do you imagine that the axe-grinders would have called off the show? - NinjaTadpole

Obivously not, because Jess did go thorugh at least once and trim the worst of it. And the stupidity continued (both from poster, and from various haters).
posted by raedyn at 4:01 PM on June 26, 2006

DUDE!
posted by yerfatma at 4:02 PM on June 26, 2006

The entire AskMe question, and the ensuing discussion (of which I certainly participated) was a complete train wreck.

If this is a precedent for "dumbass questions and flame wars will be deleted without prejudice" then GREAT!

how long until we see a sockpuppet named "AskMeWhore" ? (shudder)
posted by crazyray at 4:06 PM on June 26, 2006

It wasn't a dumb question at all. You may think the person asking it isn't smart, but that's only because he has different priorities than you. For some people, weed and alcohol are important parts of their lives and this leads to very practical questions like whether it's ok to keep smoking while on probation. Please don't use the word 'dumb' to discriminate against a lifestyle. Enjoying drugs is dangerous, maybe even unwise in America. It's not dumb. The deletion was dumb. And in the future it's good to know that all I have to do is goad the OP into a pissing contest to get a question deleted. Way to go matt.
posted by nixerman at 4:06 PM on June 26, 2006

How was the answer of "lay off the weed" anything but totally obvious? It really seemed like baphomet was searching for some way to not do the obvious, safe thing.
posted by boo_radley at 4:12 PM on June 26, 2006

If this is a precedent for "dumbass questions and flame wars will be deleted without prejudice" then GREAT!

More like deleted with prejudice, which apparently isn't always bad. It was a stupid question and a stupid discussion; good riddance to them both.
posted by Tuwa at 4:21 PM on June 26, 2006

Yet another case where the phrasing did everything it could to mask or divert from the central question, which is probably what quonsar has perhaps overanswered anyway.

Perhaps...

"I have a legal question. If someone faces court for a 1st offence high-range DUI charge in Minnesota, what is the likelihood that they will be required to submit to mandatory drug tests?

What will they test for and how often does it occur? When does this process begin in relation to the court date? How long beforehand must a person cease smoking marijuana to ensure that a drug test will be clear? Any other information (legal or from personal experience) would be appreciated."

That may have had a different outcome.
posted by peacay at 4:25 PM on June 26, 2006

nixerman, you must be high to come up with that response.
posted by puke & cry at 4:26 PM on June 26, 2006

What peacay said.

nixerman's response to me is a perfect example of how you can justify anything.
posted by vacapinta at 4:43 PM on June 26, 2006

At the least, the post could have been like ya know worded betterly.
posted by snsranch at 4:58 PM on June 26, 2006

I was all set to intone "just answer the fucking question" until the original poster eagerly jumped into the in-progress clusterfuck. Nevermind. Mess it is.
posted by desuetude at 5:00 PM on June 26, 2006

Please don't use the word 'dumb' to discriminate against a lifestyle. Enjoying drugs is dangerous, maybe even unwise in America. It's not dumb. The deletion was dumb.

nixerman, please don't mistake my calling drug use in this case dumb in addition to the other problems facing the person. It wasn't about the drugs, it was about getting in deep trouble for other similar things and still wondering if it's a good idea to partake in something that might lead to further problems.

If the question was from a guy that cut a finger off with a table saw wanting to build a new house, I'd say give up on construction dude. That's not painting the entire woodworking profession with a broad brush, that's me saying someone needs to know when to give it up.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:06 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]

I heard someone say free booze...am I too late?
posted by Pacheco at 5:16 PM on June 26, 2006

what about an experiment -- all new askmefi posts join a queue and go online only if matt/jessamin approve them, just like anonymous questions. and, say, for a week, matt/jessamyn nip in the bud all potential train wreck (one in fifteen? one in ten?)

then after a week we'll see if having less trainwrecks makes askmefi a better place or not. me, I consider them entertaining, in a "who are these fucking people" way. but maybe the mefi masses will enjoy the new policy experiment and we'll keep it permanently
posted by matteo at 5:25 PM on June 26, 2006

No, lets keep the trainwrecks. Free entertainment.
posted by puke & cry at 5:29 PM on June 26, 2006

I don't mind the very rare "what a mess" editorial fiat deletions if only to keep the OPs interested in keeping the threads less train-wrecky than this one was. I can only think of maybe one or two other AskMe threads that could have gone this way [the "my phone is bugged" one, for example] it seems like a last resort thing to do.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:33 PM on June 26, 2006

what about an experiment -- all new askmefi posts join a queue and go online only if matt/jessamin approve them, just like anonymous questions. and, say, for a week, matt/jessamyn nip in the bud all potential train wreck (one in fifteen? one in ten?)

I wrote a few weeks ago:

BTW, another option that makes sense to me is to have questions processed through a group-reviewed queue. Basically, an alternate page houses all the questions asked and each question must receive three (5, 7, whatever) positive votes to make the front page. -
posted by SeizeTheDay at 5:38 PM on June 26, 2006

SeizeTheDay, that would inevitably lead to people voting for shitty questions just to get them approved (not that I would do anything like that) and then a flood of "Why did my question get deleted? It got approved by (X) number of people!"
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:43 PM on June 26, 2006

Please keep this thread open so we can get an update on like what went down.
posted by fleacircus at 5:45 PM on June 26, 2006

True. I guess I'm just grasping right now, because I hate the fact that more questions on the green are increasingly stupid and inane, while they scroll off too fast to even see the good, interesting ones.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 5:48 PM on June 26, 2006

I'm disappointed the answers to that dumb question didn't follow along the lines of "Hell, he should toke up mondo on court day, and maybe even get pissed, too!" I'd like to see the stupid mofo locked up for a good while, just so's he can get his think on.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:00 PM on June 26, 2006

Enjoying drugs is dangerous, maybe even unwise in America. It's not dumb. The deletion was dumb.

Shooting it was the humane thing to do.

Did you think that with more postings, the OP was eventually going to get the answer that made him sit up and shout "Eureka! Now I understand!"

No.

Would any good have possibly come with more answers?

Highly doubtful.

What's the point of continuing? Put the damn thread out of its misery, I say.
posted by leftcoastbob at 6:52 PM on June 26, 2006

I'm still amazed that any state would let people drive a car at .10. Our limit has been .05 for as long as I can remember (.02 for new drivers and .00 for learners). I'm also constantly amazed at people who ask questions that could have been answered by a single phone call. You know, like in the old days when you asked people about stuff with your mouth.

But that thread, man. I think the drink driver person who was asking about his friend started the problem with the way the question was worded, then sealed the deal by being an arsehole because he didn't like the answers. I think it had gone too far to be deleted and it should have been left to struggle on, but I am not too sorry to see it go.
posted by dg at 8:23 PM on June 26, 2006

group-reviewed queue

I discussed it with my group, and we agreed that's a dumb idea.

Also: What crush-onastick and peacay said.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:39 PM on June 26, 2006

i'm with quonsar on this ... this is a classic case of overmoderation ...
posted by pyramid termite at 8:52 PM on June 26, 2006

Classic, in that Dicksonian manner. "More threads, please, suh?"
posted by five fresh fish at 9:17 PM on June 26, 2006

You say it like if I left it up, people would live and I'm a jerk for it.

sorry about that, i didn't mean to come off that way. i didn't realize there had been a major cleanup when i read the thread, and that there had been an ongoing pissing match with the poster and others that lead to the ultimate deletion. when i read it, it looked like it had been deleted for pretty much no reason at all.
posted by quonsar at 9:26 PM on June 26, 2006

it was half pissing match and half "wake up and smell the coffee" ...

but anyway ...
posted by pyramid termite at 9:32 PM on June 26, 2006

when i read it, it looked like it had been deleted for pretty much no reason at all.

Which is an argument for always restoring all deleted comments in a deleted post -- let people see how much surgery the post underwent before the moderator threw in the towel and euthanized the thing. And flag the restored comments as such so we see which comments (other than the last-straw comments at the end of the thread) were the goat-getters of the bunch.
posted by pracowity at 3:27 AM on June 27, 2006

Which is an argument for always restoring all deleted comments in a deleted post -- let people see how much surgery the post underwent before the moderator threw in the towel and euthanized the thing.

This makes sense to me.
posted by languagehat at 6:00 AM on June 27, 2006

I like that idea too, pracowity.
posted by Tuwa at 7:07 AM on June 27, 2006

I'm disappointed the answers to that dumb question didn't follow along the lines of "Hell, he should toke up mondo on court day, and maybe even get pissed, too!"

At least one of the famous deleted comments did say something along those lines.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:09 AM on June 27, 2006

"I'm disappointed the answers to that dumb question didn't follow along the lines of "Hell, he should toke up mondo on court day, and maybe even get pissed, too!" I'd like to see the stupid mofo locked up for a good while, just so's he can get his think on."

You and Konolia both. Which was part of the "I'm saving lives by being a dick on AskMe!" MeTa.
posted by klangklangston at 9:13 AM on June 27, 2006

Which is an argument for always restoring all deleted comments in a deleted post -- let people see how much surgery the post underwent before the moderator threw in the towel and euthanized the thing.

Or deleted comments could be noted in situ. Hey, maybe you could do that for all deleted comments!
posted by timeistight at 9:51 AM on June 27, 2006

This thread is already being discussed below.

I don't give a mouse fart about the thread itself or the issues therein. What bothers me immensely is that a question that apparently passes muster on its own can then be shitcanned because a bunch of jackasses have a field day in it.

If there's going to be some sort of retarded community voting where everyone gets to flex their moralistic chops then that's one thing. But in this case the dickheads got their wish and the question that offended them was removed, rather than them being required to simply ignore it and move on.

Misbehavior being rewarded by giving the miscreants what they want is disgusting.
posted by phearlez at 2:51 PM on June 27, 2006