Chatfilter July 15, 2006 1:08 AM Subscribe
The definition of "chatfilter" is one that's hard to tie down, but an AskMe post starting with "Which love option would you choose?" and ending with "My mind's made up but I'm curious: What would you do?" seems like it fits the bill.
You guys have never driven over the speed limit in your lives, have you.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 3:56 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by Saucy Intruder at 3:56 AM on July 15, 2006
You guys have never driven over the speed limit in your lives, have you
Or gone for #2. He/She was always a trouble maker.
Anyhow, I think the question wouldn't have been too bad if the OP had left out the last bit. Then it would have been less a chatfilter question and a regular relationship question, which isn't exactly AskMe gold, but is valid.
posted by Serial Killer Slumber Party at 4:28 AM on July 15, 2006
Or gone for #2. He/She was always a trouble maker.
Anyhow, I think the question wouldn't have been too bad if the OP had left out the last bit. Then it would have been less a chatfilter question and a regular relationship question, which isn't exactly AskMe gold, but is valid.
posted by Serial Killer Slumber Party at 4:28 AM on July 15, 2006
Saucy Intruder : "You guys have never driven over the speed limit in your lives, have you."
No, but I have in someone else's.
posted by Bugbread at 4:38 AM on July 15, 2006
No, but I have in someone else's.
posted by Bugbread at 4:38 AM on July 15, 2006
Ooh, I loved this one. My favorite part was when Sister Carol started singing in the street.
posted by Smart Dalek at 5:07 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by Smart Dalek at 5:07 AM on July 15, 2006
my elephant refuses to dignify this thread by pissing in it.
posted by quonsar at 5:17 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by quonsar at 5:17 AM on July 15, 2006
you're right bugbread [and everyone else who flagged it]. removed.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:52 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:52 AM on July 15, 2006
The very existance of MetaTalk implies that flagging is never sufficient.
posted by GuyZero at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by GuyZero at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2006
It's revealing that hot little pancake's dilemma is based on what other people think. She deserves number one.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:00 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:00 AM on July 15, 2006
Is the question of what others would do given your same set of choices an invalid question? I don't know, I think it's fair enough to ask.
But I will happily delete that line and repost. The full disclosure is that the one that I chose knows about Metafilter so I added the line as insurance against him seeing through the question.
posted by hot little pancake at 10:59 AM on July 15, 2006
But I will happily delete that line and repost. The full disclosure is that the one that I chose knows about Metafilter so I added the line as insurance against him seeing through the question.
posted by hot little pancake at 10:59 AM on July 15, 2006
I will happily delete that line and repost.
Surveying the AskMe audience when you're not trying to solve a problem or figure something out is generally not what Ask MetaFilter is for. "Who would be your favorite boyfriend?" is an only slightly more nuanced version of "What is your favorite color?" The people at MetaChat are discussing your topic, you might want to follow up with them there, unless there is some reason you want people to give you their opinions after you've already made your decision? You might also want to review the chatfilter part of the FAQ.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:12 AM on July 15, 2006
Surveying the AskMe audience when you're not trying to solve a problem or figure something out is generally not what Ask MetaFilter is for. "Who would be your favorite boyfriend?" is an only slightly more nuanced version of "What is your favorite color?" The people at MetaChat are discussing your topic, you might want to follow up with them there, unless there is some reason you want people to give you their opinions after you've already made your decision? You might also want to review the chatfilter part of the FAQ.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:12 AM on July 15, 2006
Is the question of what others would do given your same set of choices an invalid question? I don't know, I think it's fair enough to ask.
Since you've already made up your mind (regardless of whether or not you cop to it next time) then you aren't trying to solve a problem -- which is ostensibly what AskMe is for.
posted by scody at 11:14 AM on July 15, 2006
Since you've already made up your mind (regardless of whether or not you cop to it next time) then you aren't trying to solve a problem -- which is ostensibly what AskMe is for.
posted by scody at 11:14 AM on July 15, 2006
hot little pancake's profile is very strange at the moment..
posted by Chuckles at 11:19 AM on July 15, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 11:19 AM on July 15, 2006
My problem is that I'm endlessly plagued by questions over whether I made the right choice. I was trying to solve this by getting a bit of that "don't be a buffoon, the choice is clear" simplicity that seems to be available readily in AskMe and drawing on the life experiences of the community since I've seem some sensationally wise advice given before.
I didn't want to be dishonest and make it seem like the decision was still in front of me to a greater extent than it was. But I see that would have been simpler for all to grasp onto and I should have gone that route.
posted by hot little pancake at 11:21 AM on July 15, 2006
I didn't want to be dishonest and make it seem like the decision was still in front of me to a greater extent than it was. But I see that would have been simpler for all to grasp onto and I should have gone that route.
posted by hot little pancake at 11:21 AM on July 15, 2006
My problem is that I'm endlessly plagued by questions over whether I made the right choice.
Your own questions or other people's questions? If it's your own questions, then perhaps your AskMe question might be something more along the lines of "how do I learn to feel comfortable with the decision I've made?" If it's other people asking the question, maybe the AskMe question is something like "what are some strategies to get other people to respect my choices?" Because A) there's no way you're going to find consensus among thousands of Mefites regarding whether you should choose Bachelor #1 or Bachelor #2 (there is almost never any "'don't be a buffoon, the choice is clear' simplicity" in AskMe when it comes to relationship questions), and B) even if you did, I don't think that's really the point in your case.
posted by scody at 11:35 AM on July 15, 2006
Your own questions or other people's questions? If it's your own questions, then perhaps your AskMe question might be something more along the lines of "how do I learn to feel comfortable with the decision I've made?" If it's other people asking the question, maybe the AskMe question is something like "what are some strategies to get other people to respect my choices?" Because A) there's no way you're going to find consensus among thousands of Mefites regarding whether you should choose Bachelor #1 or Bachelor #2 (there is almost never any "'don't be a buffoon, the choice is clear' simplicity" in AskMe when it comes to relationship questions), and B) even if you did, I don't think that's really the point in your case.
posted by scody at 11:35 AM on July 15, 2006
I don't know, scody. I'm not looking for consensus or others to make my decision for me, just advice based in experience. This is exactly the stuff I'm looking for:
"#1. You'll feel like taffy at times, all pulled and stretched, but it's better to be challenged, than to be worshipped." - paulsc
I don't want to ask around the issue. The question I am struggling with is still #1 or #2, not what people will think. And since I could pick up the phone and inside of 5 minutes flip the choice around I am really hoping for some anonymous wisdom to temper any rash decision making on my part.
posted by hot little pancake at 11:46 AM on July 15, 2006
"#1. You'll feel like taffy at times, all pulled and stretched, but it's better to be challenged, than to be worshipped." - paulsc
I don't want to ask around the issue. The question I am struggling with is still #1 or #2, not what people will think. And since I could pick up the phone and inside of 5 minutes flip the choice around I am really hoping for some anonymous wisdom to temper any rash decision making on my part.
posted by hot little pancake at 11:46 AM on July 15, 2006
Would this be a more acceptable closer or am I still going to end up in here defending my shallowness:
"I made a choice but I am endlessly plagued by questions over it. Neither option is closed to me at this point and I’d love to hear opinions, especially from those who chose one or the other."
posted by hot little pancake at 11:49 AM on July 15, 2006
"I made a choice but I am endlessly plagued by questions over it. Neither option is closed to me at this point and I’d love to hear opinions, especially from those who chose one or the other."
posted by hot little pancake at 11:49 AM on July 15, 2006
plagued by questions
Once again, you need to be clear if you're being plagued by questions from others, or your own internal questions, as scody said above. If they are your question, you might want to include them. Basically there is a difference between saying "Have you been in this situation or one like it? What did you do?" and the more open-ended chatfilter "What should *I* do?" question.
Since you have no MetaFilter history outside of this thread, people know nothing about you. You might want to include what you're looking for relationship-wise [like if sex is the most important thing, dude #1 is more likely to be out the door obviously] in less tangible ways and maybe other people can help connect the dots for you. And lastly, don't be coy, if you picked one of the guys but are having second thoughts about it talk about that, otherwise it becomes a frustrating exercise in mind reading and people are going to ask anyhow. If the guy is on MetaFilter, maybe you should give it a little bit of time and ask the question anonymously.
At the end of the day, I think people are saying that neither dude is obviously better than either other dude, it depends on what sort of person YOU are and what you're looking for in a relationship. That's a question that no one here knows the answer to unless you give more information.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:02 PM on July 15, 2006
Once again, you need to be clear if you're being plagued by questions from others, or your own internal questions, as scody said above. If they are your question, you might want to include them. Basically there is a difference between saying "Have you been in this situation or one like it? What did you do?" and the more open-ended chatfilter "What should *I* do?" question.
Since you have no MetaFilter history outside of this thread, people know nothing about you. You might want to include what you're looking for relationship-wise [like if sex is the most important thing, dude #1 is more likely to be out the door obviously] in less tangible ways and maybe other people can help connect the dots for you. And lastly, don't be coy, if you picked one of the guys but are having second thoughts about it talk about that, otherwise it becomes a frustrating exercise in mind reading and people are going to ask anyhow. If the guy is on MetaFilter, maybe you should give it a little bit of time and ask the question anonymously.
At the end of the day, I think people are saying that neither dude is obviously better than either other dude, it depends on what sort of person YOU are and what you're looking for in a relationship. That's a question that no one here knows the answer to unless you give more information.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:02 PM on July 15, 2006
I sure as hell flagged it.
Amazing how passionate some people can be about chatfilter.
posted by jayder at 12:51 PM on July 15, 2006
Amazing how passionate some people can be about chatfilter.
posted by jayder at 12:51 PM on July 15, 2006
Yes, frustrating exercise in mind reading = bad AskMe.
posted by languagehat at 1:38 PM on July 15, 2006
posted by languagehat at 1:38 PM on July 15, 2006
I would have chosen option #3: you. Tell them both that you're choosing yourself. Then go over to the Peach Pit and have a piece of pie with Nat.
posted by supercrayon at 2:09 PM on July 15, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by supercrayon at 2:09 PM on July 15, 2006 [1 favorite]
Wow, I would really have loved to see that one played out further. Chatfilter from an objective standpoint, sure. But interesting and applicable as all hell to me.
Oh well.
posted by scarabic at 3:05 PM on July 15, 2006
Oh well.
posted by scarabic at 3:05 PM on July 15, 2006
I think we've worked out a good version of the question for the next time around, stay tuned folks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:06 PM on July 15, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:06 PM on July 15, 2006
Basically there is a difference between saying "Have you been in this situation or one like it? What did you do?" and the more open-ended chatfilter "What should *I* do?" question.
I think you and Matt get caught up in the phrasing a little too often.
posted by scarabic at 3:08 PM on July 15, 2006
I think you and Matt get caught up in the phrasing a little too often.
posted by scarabic at 3:08 PM on July 15, 2006
I think I saved this question so that it can be helpful to you [and others] in the near future.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:28 PM on July 15, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:28 PM on July 15, 2006
Thanks to all who answered the question and thanks to those who gave advice on how to make the question fit better within the guidelines. I think that you'll find that the new question explains things a bit better and gives more information.
Please repost your responses if you still think they apply to the retooled phrasing and additional info when I post again in a week.
posted by hot little pancake at 3:40 PM on July 15, 2006
Please repost your responses if you still think they apply to the retooled phrasing and additional info when I post again in a week.
posted by hot little pancake at 3:40 PM on July 15, 2006
hot little pancake : "My problem is that I'm endlessly plagued by questions over whether I made the right choice. I was trying to solve this by getting a bit of that 'don't be a buffoon, the choice is clear' simplicity that seems to be available readily in AskMe and drawing on the life experiences of the community since I've seem some sensationally wise advice given before. "
This is partly why I Metaed instead of flagging: There seemed two possible situations: 1) "I have already concretely made up my mind, but I'm just curious about what y'all would do" and 2) "I have made a decision, but I'm uncertain about it, and would like additional advice". 1 is chatfilter, 2 (as far as I understand it) isn't, and I based on what you wrote I suspected you were in situation 1, but I couldn't be sure, hence the MeTa. Turns out I was wrong.
posted by Bugbread at 6:17 PM on July 15, 2006
This is partly why I Metaed instead of flagging: There seemed two possible situations: 1) "I have already concretely made up my mind, but I'm just curious about what y'all would do" and 2) "I have made a decision, but I'm uncertain about it, and would like additional advice". 1 is chatfilter, 2 (as far as I understand it) isn't, and I based on what you wrote I suspected you were in situation 1, but I couldn't be sure, hence the MeTa. Turns out I was wrong.
posted by Bugbread at 6:17 PM on July 15, 2006
Wow, I would really have loved to see that one played out further. Chatfilter from an objective standpoint, sure. But interesting and applicable as all hell to me.
Ah, but don't you see, scarabic? This question has now been transmigrated to the magical land of MetaTalk, where there are no rules (not even a little pithy note under your live preview box reminding you to Play Nice and Stick to the Topic) and hardly anything ever gets deleted.
Ferinstance: the answer to the question hot little pancake should have asked (which one of these two men ought I to choose?) is obviously, unquestionably, blatantly Option 2. In the relationship precis of Option One there are two dubious positives: he has a lot of traits she admires "on paper" and is considered out of her league. I guess I'm assuming pancake is a woman, I'm not sure that's actually clear. But who cares. Whereas the relationship precis of Option 2 presents 6 straightforward positives. It's a no brainer. Now if this were AskMetafilter, I'd be supposed to stop there. But no, this is MetaTalk, where I can also deliver my actual opinion!
Here's a fun game: let's meld Option 1 and Option 2 into a single man, split hot little pancake into two separate people, and see what kind of options that poor schmoe's looking at:
"Dear MetaTalk: Which love option would you choose?
"Option 1: While she admires many of the traits that make some consider me out of her league, she finds our sex life inadequate, our prospects pedestrian, and she doesn't really have anything good to say about our relationship.
"Option 2: She likes my good instincts, the way I make her laugh, the way I adore her and always want to spend time with her, our amazing chemistry, and the amazing and exciting sex. But she's dissapointed in my lack of education and culture and in the back of her mind she constantly wishes I were smarter, taller, better educated, slicker."
Hmm, which one would I choose? Now that's a tricky question. But I like the way you worked "taller" into that last line of the description of Option 2, hot little pancake. Oh no, honey, you're not shallow.
posted by nanojath at 9:39 PM on July 15, 2006
Ah, but don't you see, scarabic? This question has now been transmigrated to the magical land of MetaTalk, where there are no rules (not even a little pithy note under your live preview box reminding you to Play Nice and Stick to the Topic) and hardly anything ever gets deleted.
Ferinstance: the answer to the question hot little pancake should have asked (which one of these two men ought I to choose?) is obviously, unquestionably, blatantly Option 2. In the relationship precis of Option One there are two dubious positives: he has a lot of traits she admires "on paper" and is considered out of her league. I guess I'm assuming pancake is a woman, I'm not sure that's actually clear. But who cares. Whereas the relationship precis of Option 2 presents 6 straightforward positives. It's a no brainer. Now if this were AskMetafilter, I'd be supposed to stop there. But no, this is MetaTalk, where I can also deliver my actual opinion!
Here's a fun game: let's meld Option 1 and Option 2 into a single man, split hot little pancake into two separate people, and see what kind of options that poor schmoe's looking at:
"Dear MetaTalk: Which love option would you choose?
"Option 1: While she admires many of the traits that make some consider me out of her league, she finds our sex life inadequate, our prospects pedestrian, and she doesn't really have anything good to say about our relationship.
"Option 2: She likes my good instincts, the way I make her laugh, the way I adore her and always want to spend time with her, our amazing chemistry, and the amazing and exciting sex. But she's dissapointed in my lack of education and culture and in the back of her mind she constantly wishes I were smarter, taller, better educated, slicker."
Hmm, which one would I choose? Now that's a tricky question. But I like the way you worked "taller" into that last line of the description of Option 2, hot little pancake. Oh no, honey, you're not shallow.
posted by nanojath at 9:39 PM on July 15, 2006
Okay, the thing is that a poster has a measly paragraph of space to sum up the situation (yes, they could go on and on trying to 'splain it all, but we are impatient with that longwinded style and wouldn't react well), so I hate to see posters penalized for presenting the unadorned facts in order to get the grist of the question. I'm a romantic, but I didn't read this question in the same way that many of you have. I saw as a shorthand version of a very complex situation, in which the poster didn't bother to footnote every factoid with backstory.
I know I'm not naive, but maybe I'm willing to give people too much credit. Or maybe some of you are too unwilling to extend any credit at all.
posted by taz at 6:41 AM on July 16, 2006
I know I'm not naive, but maybe I'm willing to give people too much credit. Or maybe some of you are too unwilling to extend any credit at all.
posted by taz at 6:41 AM on July 16, 2006
I see your point, taz, but I dunno. "I've already made up my mind" is hard to take as anything other than "I've already made up my mind."
posted by mediareport at 8:28 AM on July 16, 2006
posted by mediareport at 8:28 AM on July 16, 2006
Not about making up her mind, - yes I agree that the post as presented doesn't meet the criteria for AskMe... but for all the people who have designated her as a cold-hearted bitch - I really don't see that.
posted by taz at 10:19 AM on July 16, 2006
posted by taz at 10:19 AM on July 16, 2006
I plead guilty to venting excess spleen-pressure into MetaTalk, taz. And yet I remain unrepentant.
posted by nanojath at 11:19 AM on July 16, 2006
posted by nanojath at 11:19 AM on July 16, 2006
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posted by joe lisboa at 1:09 AM on July 15, 2006