Is it really true that older MetaFilterians are leaving in droves? October 4, 2002 1:38 AM Subscribe
Reality Check Time: Is it really true that older MetaFilterians are leaving in droves? Apart from Evanizer [Is there anything we can to do get him back? Like compiling our favourite Evanizer moments?], my own perception is that they're not. At least one valued member (y6y6y6) has returned. Although it's increasingly repeated, here and elsewhere (and in danger of becoming a blotter-meme for every random drop of dissatisfaction leaked by users everywhere), how many older members have actually upped and gone since the recent influx of newbies, as the proto-meme pretends? And, if some have indeed left, does anyone know in which green pastures they now roam?
Bugs, Feature Requests, Etiquette/Policy, Uptime, Metafilter-related and I'm Taking My Ball And Going Home Nyah!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:35 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:35 AM on October 4, 2002
Okay, I'll field this one:
Hi. I'm one of the folks who's been here since July. Before that, I had lurked off and on for (almost) a full year or so before I finally came a member. And yes, perhaps there's times where I may be "part of the problem", but you're certainly not alone in feeling alienated by the influx of newbies.
In fact, I may actually know more about that department than you do.
Before there was a World Wide Web, in the days when BBSes, email and USENET were things known mainly to universities and government services, a number of people counted upon magazines like Forced Exposure and MAXIMUMROCKNROLL to chew the fat and catch up on the latest. The readership who commented within the margins of those publications added to the growth and well-being of the status quo, and their correspondence added levels of depth and encouracement that bloggers today recognise as a spiriit of community.
But every so often, there would be those who may have been a bit too "green" to start writing to those periodicals. Letters to the editor, staff columns, and even music reviews became battlegrounds for name-calling and tireless reiterations of "this sucks - I'm leaving to start my own scene"...
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that you're not alone. Change happens, for better and for worse. That's way it's important for these forums to have their Elder Statesmen. Matt created this site for everyone, not just a select 100 or so individuals. I don't think he'd enjoy running MeFi and throwing new features in if he wasn't expecting fresh faces to stumble in and check out the goods.
No matter how exhausting it is to see mediocrity on a frequent level, that's part of the growing pains - of being new, and of the whole as it becomes more mature. So stay in there as long as you can to help, and when you do go elsewhere, do so out of curiousity of the larger ("meatspace") world, not out of tears of rage. Encorage the rookies likewise, you'll find on return visits that community spirit is still there.
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:12 AM on October 4, 2002
Hi. I'm one of the folks who's been here since July. Before that, I had lurked off and on for (almost) a full year or so before I finally came a member. And yes, perhaps there's times where I may be "part of the problem", but you're certainly not alone in feeling alienated by the influx of newbies.
In fact, I may actually know more about that department than you do.
Before there was a World Wide Web, in the days when BBSes, email and USENET were things known mainly to universities and government services, a number of people counted upon magazines like Forced Exposure and MAXIMUMROCKNROLL to chew the fat and catch up on the latest. The readership who commented within the margins of those publications added to the growth and well-being of the status quo, and their correspondence added levels of depth and encouracement that bloggers today recognise as a spiriit of community.
But every so often, there would be those who may have been a bit too "green" to start writing to those periodicals. Letters to the editor, staff columns, and even music reviews became battlegrounds for name-calling and tireless reiterations of "this sucks - I'm leaving to start my own scene"...
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that you're not alone. Change happens, for better and for worse. That's way it's important for these forums to have their Elder Statesmen. Matt created this site for everyone, not just a select 100 or so individuals. I don't think he'd enjoy running MeFi and throwing new features in if he wasn't expecting fresh faces to stumble in and check out the goods.
No matter how exhausting it is to see mediocrity on a frequent level, that's part of the growing pains - of being new, and of the whole as it becomes more mature. So stay in there as long as you can to help, and when you do go elsewhere, do so out of curiousity of the larger ("meatspace") world, not out of tears of rage. Encorage the rookies likewise, you'll find on return visits that community spirit is still there.
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:12 AM on October 4, 2002
"A Democratic Spirit is one that combines rigor and humility, i.e., passionate conviction plus sedulous respect for the convictions of others. As any American knows, this is a very difficult spirit to cultivate and maintain, particularly when it comes to issues you feel strongly about. Equally tough is a Democratic Spirit's criterion of 100 percent intellectual integrity--you have to be willing to look honestly at yourself and your motives for believing what you believe, and to do it more or less continually.
This kind of stuff is advanced U.S. citizenship. A true Democratic Spirit is up there with religious faith and emotional maturity and all those other top-of-the-Maslow-Pyramid-type qualities people spend their whole lives working on. A Democratic Spirit's constituent rigor and humility and honesty are in fact so hard to maintain on certain issues that it's almost irresistibly tempting to fall in with some established dogmatic camp and to follow that camp's line on the issue and to let your position harden within the camp and become inflexible and to believe that any other camp is either evil or insane and to spend all your time and energy trying to shout over them.
I submit, then, that it is indisputably easier to be dogmatic than Democratic, especially about issues that are both vexed and highly charged."
-David Foster Wallace
My going away word-present for anyone who is going away, and equally for everyone who stays.
(From this, which is unrelated, bar that it was linked to recently from This Very Site.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:16 AM on October 4, 2002
This kind of stuff is advanced U.S. citizenship. A true Democratic Spirit is up there with religious faith and emotional maturity and all those other top-of-the-Maslow-Pyramid-type qualities people spend their whole lives working on. A Democratic Spirit's constituent rigor and humility and honesty are in fact so hard to maintain on certain issues that it's almost irresistibly tempting to fall in with some established dogmatic camp and to follow that camp's line on the issue and to let your position harden within the camp and become inflexible and to believe that any other camp is either evil or insane and to spend all your time and energy trying to shout over them.
I submit, then, that it is indisputably easier to be dogmatic than Democratic, especially about issues that are both vexed and highly charged."
-David Foster Wallace
My going away word-present for anyone who is going away, and equally for everyone who stays.
(From this, which is unrelated, bar that it was linked to recently from This Very Site.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:16 AM on October 4, 2002
i've never really been here. i'm just matt's bad dream.
posted by quonsar at 4:31 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by quonsar at 4:31 AM on October 4, 2002
People leaving is no big deal. It happens in all communities, virtual or real.
Hell, how many times have I left Plastic? Enough that I cannot answer that question.
Communities evolve, they are dynamic, that is what makes them fascinating.
posted by mischief at 4:44 AM on October 4, 2002
Hell, how many times have I left Plastic? Enough that I cannot answer that question.
Communities evolve, they are dynamic, that is what makes them fascinating.
posted by mischief at 4:44 AM on October 4, 2002
I left for good yesterday. It was all I could do to come back today. I can't promise I'll be back tomorrow.
Seriously, I can't really ever leave for good, since I don't have a blog to post a pitiful and histrionic diatribe about how sucky metafilter has become and how I'm leaving for good, so I guess you're stuck with me.
posted by crunchland at 4:53 AM on October 4, 2002
Seriously, I can't really ever leave for good, since I don't have a blog to post a pitiful and histrionic diatribe about how sucky metafilter has become and how I'm leaving for good, so I guess you're stuck with me.
posted by crunchland at 4:53 AM on October 4, 2002
i'm just matt's bad dream
not only matt's, unfortunately
posted by matteo at 5:02 AM on October 4, 2002
not only matt's, unfortunately
posted by matteo at 5:02 AM on October 4, 2002
The rumors of my departure have been greatly exaggerated. Twice. I can't bear the crushing depression that anyone would feel should I actually leave, so I stay, at great personal cost, just to spare everyone's feelings. I'm like that.
I think it's natural and healthy for people to move on. It's part of the Circle. The Circle of Life.
posted by iconomy at 5:06 AM on October 4, 2002
I think it's natural and healthy for people to move on. It's part of the Circle. The Circle of Life.
posted by iconomy at 5:06 AM on October 4, 2002
I'm glad to see them go.
If they're not happy here, they shouldn't be here.
There is a natural amount of turnover in any community.
posted by websavvy at 5:47 AM on October 4, 2002
If they're not happy here, they shouldn't be here.
There is a natural amount of turnover in any community.
posted by websavvy at 5:47 AM on October 4, 2002
I'm rarely blunt, but here goes: I don't understand the fuss over Evanizer leaving. About a month ago people were constantly yelling at him to tone it down. Many of his comments were coming off as rude personal attacks (I think they're still fresh enough in memory that I won't drag up links, like his "Get your own...").
Frankly, I had classified him as a troll and I had steeled myself to not respond to him, should he ever address an(other?) inflammatory comment at me.
What's the big deal? Is this like, "Damn, my girlfriend (boyfriend) bugs me. Oh, wait! (S)He's leaving me! I want her (him) back!" ?
posted by Shane at 6:04 AM on October 4, 2002
Frankly, I had classified him as a troll and I had steeled myself to not respond to him, should he ever address an(other?) inflammatory comment at me.
What's the big deal? Is this like, "Damn, my girlfriend (boyfriend) bugs me. Oh, wait! (S)He's leaving me! I want her (him) back!" ?
posted by Shane at 6:04 AM on October 4, 2002
Unlike Cheers, it's becoming increasingly less likely that anyone will know your name here.
posted by feelinglistless at 6:11 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by feelinglistless at 6:11 AM on October 4, 2002
I'm threatening to leave. Feel free to beg me to stay.
posted by ColdChef at 6:16 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by ColdChef at 6:16 AM on October 4, 2002
Whenever someone makes a big public spectacle of their departure from this site, it warms my undersized heart to know that our population of drama queens has been reduced by one.
posted by rcade at 6:17 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by rcade at 6:17 AM on October 4, 2002
Whenever someone makes a big public spectacle of their departure from this site...
Glad you mentioned that. It occurred to me, too. It's got to make you stop and wonder: Where's the class in saying, "I'm leaving now. This is a big deal. The old place sucks." WTF?
posted by Shane at 6:21 AM on October 4, 2002
Glad you mentioned that. It occurred to me, too. It's got to make you stop and wonder: Where's the class in saying, "I'm leaving now. This is a big deal. The old place sucks." WTF?
posted by Shane at 6:21 AM on October 4, 2002
I'm threatening to leave. Feel free to beg me to stay.
Please don't go, ColdChef!
Who else will grease up the chihuahuas when the cold weather comes? Who else will dance the tarantella naked in the threads that Steve_from_wherever micturates all over, to distract us in your puckish way from the horror of it all?
Who could take your place, I ask! Who!?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:27 AM on October 4, 2002
Please don't go, ColdChef!
Who else will grease up the chihuahuas when the cold weather comes? Who else will dance the tarantella naked in the threads that Steve_from_wherever micturates all over, to distract us in your puckish way from the horror of it all?
Who could take your place, I ask! Who!?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:27 AM on October 4, 2002
Who else will grease up the chihuahuas when the cold weather comes? Who else will dance the tarantella naked...
I will grease those chi-hooa-hooas.
I will dance that naked Tarantella.
Who else will join me? Forward into battle, my legions!
But it still won't be the same.
[Waaay too much coffee today.]
posted by Shane at 6:36 AM on October 4, 2002
I will grease those chi-hooa-hooas.
I will dance that naked Tarantella.
Who else will join me? Forward into battle, my legions!
But it still won't be the same.
[Waaay too much coffee today.]
posted by Shane at 6:36 AM on October 4, 2002
Whenever someone makes a big public spectacle of their departure from this site
In fairness Evanizer posted his goodbye message on his own site, rather than having a big ol' Bunnyfire "Can I have a moment of your time?" display here in the gray. Still publicish, but lacking that "Now beg me to stay" subtext.
Please don't go, ColdChef!... Who could take your place, I ask! Who!?
*Does a lil naked dance, slips in pool of micturation, bruises coccyx*
Guess it ain't me babe.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:44 AM on October 4, 2002
In fairness Evanizer posted his goodbye message on his own site, rather than having a big ol' Bunnyfire "Can I have a moment of your time?" display here in the gray. Still publicish, but lacking that "Now beg me to stay" subtext.
Please don't go, ColdChef!... Who could take your place, I ask! Who!?
*Does a lil naked dance, slips in pool of micturation, bruises coccyx*
Guess it ain't me babe.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:44 AM on October 4, 2002
yhbc, linking a picture of me like that is a gross invasion of my personal privacy. I demand that you take it down at once.
posted by UKnowForKids at 6:50 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by UKnowForKids at 6:50 AM on October 4, 2002
I will grease those chi-hooa-hooas.
I will dance that naked Tarantella.
Who else will join me? Forward into battle, my legions!
I will dance that naked Tarantella, but I do not know the way.
posted by picopebbles at 6:51 AM on October 4, 2002
I will dance that naked Tarantella.
Who else will join me? Forward into battle, my legions!
I will dance that naked Tarantella, but I do not know the way.
posted by picopebbles at 6:51 AM on October 4, 2002
Right, I've had enough. I'm going to end it all. Now. Nobody cares about me, nobody. I'm cleverer and wittier than all of you yet not one of you recognised by genius. Well it's too late now. Metafilter will be nothing without me. I'm actually strangling myself with my computer lead as I type and it's all your fault. So what do you say to that?
Hello. Hello?
posted by Summer at 6:52 AM on October 4, 2002
Hello. Hello?
posted by Summer at 6:52 AM on October 4, 2002
Shane, you caught evanizer at a bad time. For the month or so that you've been here, he's been in an unusually bad humor, probably because of the stuff he mentions in his blog. If you want to get a fuller appreciation of him, go back and read his comments over the past year. He's usually witty, thoughtful, iconoclastic, and a pleasure to read.
Too bad it couldn't last. I think he just got tired of being beat on. That 'get your own weblog' comment shocked me when it happened, it was totally unlike him. It was a red flag that something was wrong. I'll miss him, but it's probably better for him to be gone. He was no longer happy here.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 6:53 AM on October 4, 2002
Too bad it couldn't last. I think he just got tired of being beat on. That 'get your own weblog' comment shocked me when it happened, it was totally unlike him. It was a red flag that something was wrong. I'll miss him, but it's probably better for him to be gone. He was no longer happy here.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 6:53 AM on October 4, 2002
wait... we're supposed to be happy here?
posted by crunchland at 6:56 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by crunchland at 6:56 AM on October 4, 2002
As a memorial to Summer, we will be starting one of these for future troubled bloggers. The 800# will ring directly to Mathowie?
Shane, you caught evanizer at a bad time.
I'll be fair and admit this is probably the case, judging from the respect some of you have for his previous incarnation. I have a thin skin for attacks and uncivilized behavior, that's just me--My comments on Evanizer here are about as close to a personal attack as you will see. Of course, I've noticed I can fall into severe snarkiness if I'm not careful...
Is it all MeFi burnout? We should all take a day off and : )
posted by Shane at 7:06 AM on October 4, 2002
Shane, you caught evanizer at a bad time.
I'll be fair and admit this is probably the case, judging from the respect some of you have for his previous incarnation. I have a thin skin for attacks and uncivilized behavior, that's just me--My comments on Evanizer here are about as close to a personal attack as you will see. Of course, I've noticed I can fall into severe snarkiness if I'm not careful...
Is it all MeFi burnout? We should all take a day off and : )
posted by Shane at 7:06 AM on October 4, 2002
When you think about it, aren't we essentially customers since we are subjected to text ads? Shouldn't the proprietor be a little concerned about the turnover since, in good faith, he has sold advertising to external entities? If he wishes to continue to do so, doens't it make good sense to keep the customers he has while acquiring new revenue streams?
posted by internook at 7:10 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by internook at 7:10 AM on October 4, 2002
No. Lots and lots of warm eyeballs are arriving every day to replace those who leave. I don't think suicide girls, say, ever held Matt down and threatened his cats if specific people ever left this site.
(That said, I hate to see good members go. I hope those who are just taking a vacation come back soon).
posted by maudlin at 7:14 AM on October 4, 2002
(That said, I hate to see good members go. I hope those who are just taking a vacation come back soon).
posted by maudlin at 7:14 AM on October 4, 2002
When you think about it, aren't we essentially customers since we are subjected to text ads? Shouldn't the proprietor be a little concerned about the turnover since, in good faith, he has sold advertising to external entities?
If we're customers, we're also entertainers, in a dual role, providing much of the content of the site. Should we be compensated? Hee hee, right.
Damn, I'm chatty today. Sorry, folks, it's the coffee.
posted by Shane at 7:14 AM on October 4, 2002
If we're customers, we're also entertainers, in a dual role, providing much of the content of the site. Should we be compensated? Hee hee, right.
Damn, I'm chatty today. Sorry, folks, it's the coffee.
posted by Shane at 7:14 AM on October 4, 2002
In fairness Evanizer posted his goodbye message on his own site, rather than having a big ol' --------- "Can I have a moment of your time?" display here in the gray.
I'll give him style points for that, but anyone writing a meficide note knows that it will likely be the subject of public hand-wringing here. Especially when our own Cruise Director Julie is one of his weblog's visitors.
posted by rcade at 7:37 AM on October 4, 2002 [1 favorite]
I'll give him style points for that, but anyone writing a meficide note knows that it will likely be the subject of public hand-wringing here. Especially when our own Cruise Director Julie is one of his weblog's visitors.
posted by rcade at 7:37 AM on October 4, 2002 [1 favorite]
I've been an advocate of the temporary self-imposed Mefi vacation for awhile now. Take a week off, pick your threads judiciously, avoid overt provocation no matter how provocatory the poster or dear the topic (ie. you didn't see my fool ass posting in the Irish Traveller Child Beating thread, didja? noooo...) and re-read every post before you hit the button and ask: "What am I contributing here?"
posted by UncleFes at 7:56 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by UncleFes at 7:56 AM on October 4, 2002
Stay, Chef, stay
~throws ColdChef a moist n' meaty snausage~
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:58 AM on October 4, 2002
~throws ColdChef a moist n' meaty snausage~
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:58 AM on October 4, 2002
our own Cruise Director Julie
Dang! Miguel gets all the cool jobs! So if he is Julie, who is Gofer ?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:01 AM on October 4, 2002
Dang! Miguel gets all the cool jobs! So if he is Julie, who is Gofer ?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:01 AM on October 4, 2002
Let's all stand together for change. I hereby pronounce October MeFi free for everyone! I bet those suicide girls would freak!
posted by internook at 8:05 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by internook at 8:05 AM on October 4, 2002
I knew I shouldn't have looked up Cruise Director Julie...
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:17 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:17 AM on October 4, 2002
Cruise Director Julie was the preternaturally cheerful staff member who was the center of all social activity on the Love Boat, a long-running American TV show with regular guest starring roles that served as an informal welfare program for washed-up celebrities.
I think this page does a good job of describing why she has ascended into the world of metaphor.
posted by rcade at 8:44 AM on October 4, 2002
I think this page does a good job of describing why she has ascended into the world of metaphor.
posted by rcade at 8:44 AM on October 4, 2002
1. Perhaps we ought to be wary of generalizing from "I'm bored" to "this site is boring."
2. I've been registered for slightly over two years, and lurked a bit before that. And, you know, I haven't seen the great decline and fall of the MeFi empire that others have. I just haven't. The trolls can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There are plenty of interesting links to read, and plenty of interesting conversations to be had, even with people with whom one disagrees. (At the very least, we can all agree to worship at Miguel's shrine, I suppose.) And so forth. It's not as though this is Usenet, where I've seen people glorying in their "success" at driving other users off a particular board.
3. Turnover: change may bring strife, frustration, and general angst, but it also brings stimulation, freshness, and new questions (and/or answers). Everyone's arguments get "old": particular stances on I/P; claims for the applicability of natural law to contemporary morality; my own habit of making everything an analogy with Victorian England.
4. Internet "generation gaps" seem somewhat foreshortened--it seems somewhat bizarre to talk about "newbies" and "oldtimers" on a site that isn't itself particularly "old."
posted by thomas j wise at 8:44 AM on October 4, 2002
2. I've been registered for slightly over two years, and lurked a bit before that. And, you know, I haven't seen the great decline and fall of the MeFi empire that others have. I just haven't. The trolls can be counted on the fingers of one hand. There are plenty of interesting links to read, and plenty of interesting conversations to be had, even with people with whom one disagrees. (At the very least, we can all agree to worship at Miguel's shrine, I suppose.) And so forth. It's not as though this is Usenet, where I've seen people glorying in their "success" at driving other users off a particular board.
3. Turnover: change may bring strife, frustration, and general angst, but it also brings stimulation, freshness, and new questions (and/or answers). Everyone's arguments get "old": particular stances on I/P; claims for the applicability of natural law to contemporary morality; my own habit of making everything an analogy with Victorian England.
4. Internet "generation gaps" seem somewhat foreshortened--it seems somewhat bizarre to talk about "newbies" and "oldtimers" on a site that isn't itself particularly "old."
posted by thomas j wise at 8:44 AM on October 4, 2002
Spalding, when you called to the beach, how many came?
posted by Kafkaesque at 8:50 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 8:50 AM on October 4, 2002
All the Judies came.
(I just wish I knew what the point was.)
posted by Grangousier at 10:03 AM on October 4, 2002
(I just wish I knew what the point was.)
posted by Grangousier at 10:03 AM on October 4, 2002
Oh sure, I just got here, and everyone leaves. Sounds like my real life.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:04 AM on October 4, 2002
posted by blue_beetle at 10:04 AM on October 4, 2002
*Does a lil naked dance, slips in pool of micturation, bruises coccyx*
I was going to leave, until I read that. Now I must clean the coffee off my monitor. Oy.
posted by ChrisTN at 10:22 AM on October 4, 2002
I was going to leave, until I read that. Now I must clean the coffee off my monitor. Oy.
posted by ChrisTN at 10:22 AM on October 4, 2002
At noon, i went to do the laundry as my washer is fried. I'm at a stop light and I'm belting out all melodic...
..."SOON WILL BE MAKING ANOTHERRRRR RUN..."
guy in the other lane says to me.
"don't make me talk to Isaac"
:)
posted by clavdivs at 10:23 AM on October 4, 2002
..."SOON WILL BE MAKING ANOTHERRRRR RUN..."
guy in the other lane says to me.
"don't make me talk to Isaac"
:)
posted by clavdivs at 10:23 AM on October 4, 2002
In fairness Evanizer posted his goodbye message on his own site, rather than having a big ol' --------- "Can I have a moment of your time?" display here in the gray.
BTW I'm pretty sure "---------" is back. No I'm not going to give any hints.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 10:53 AM on October 4, 2002
BTW I'm pretty sure "---------" is back. No I'm not going to give any hints.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 10:53 AM on October 4, 2002
We'll be able to spot "----------" the next time "----------" flames out and leaves in a huff.
"I bet you think this song is about you..."
posted by websavvy at 10:55 AM on October 4, 2002
"I bet you think this song is about you..."
posted by websavvy at 10:55 AM on October 4, 2002
I've been here less because I feel like MeFi's a bit of a broken record. Everything is formally the same - the same debates, the same sorts of arguments, the same sorts of people leaving. We're running on well-worn grooves. I was hoping there would be a sort of paradigm shift with the new people - we'd discover new ways of using MetaFilter. But this just isn't so.
People are complaining, as always, that people disagree with them (sometimes they're creative and say instead that people "aren't articulate enough" [the terms 'sophomoric' and 'college' get thrown around a lot]). This is what MetaFilter has always been like, and it's okay. Where discourse breaks down are in the domains of personal attacks and silly self-righteousness. Evanizer certainly hasn't done anything to combat these tendencies among the membership. While it sucks to see a cogent debater go, there are many more to fill the gap. That's part of what's so depressing... the same characters, the same arguments, stuck in a revolving door...
posted by Marquis at 11:08 AM on October 4, 2002
People are complaining, as always, that people disagree with them (sometimes they're creative and say instead that people "aren't articulate enough" [the terms 'sophomoric' and 'college' get thrown around a lot]). This is what MetaFilter has always been like, and it's okay. Where discourse breaks down are in the domains of personal attacks and silly self-righteousness. Evanizer certainly hasn't done anything to combat these tendencies among the membership. While it sucks to see a cogent debater go, there are many more to fill the gap. That's part of what's so depressing... the same characters, the same arguments, stuck in a revolving door...
posted by Marquis at 11:08 AM on October 4, 2002
I leave MeFi in a huff and then return to it with my tail between my legs on a daily basis. The first couple times some people noticed, but no one makes a big deal out of it anymore. Partially because I stopped announcing to everyone that I was leaving, then announcing I was coming back. After about the eighth or ninth time, people started ignoring me. So now I ignore them in return. Everyone's happy. In fact I've left MeFi in a huff twelve times since I started composing this comment. Do I get even a simple email message begging me to come back? NO!
I hate you all.
Nowadays I'm surprised if a day goes by and someone isn't announcing they're leaving. It feels wrong somehow, as if each and every one of us are not doing enough to make life hell for each other. I think there should be more people leaving on a regular basis. How can we improve those numbers?
posted by ZachsMind at 11:26 AM on October 4, 2002
I hate you all.
Nowadays I'm surprised if a day goes by and someone isn't announcing they're leaving. It feels wrong somehow, as if each and every one of us are not doing enough to make life hell for each other. I think there should be more people leaving on a regular basis. How can we improve those numbers?
posted by ZachsMind at 11:26 AM on October 4, 2002
Me, I don't miss anyone who has left. It seems to me that while some good posters have moved on, more often it is the bitter, spiteful, aggressive and rigid-minded who can't take the culture of openness here and take off in a huff (I could name names, but won't). There are some still here that I would miss, but fortunately they're still here, which seems to lend some credence to my hypothesis.
Okay, I lied. I DO miss Carol Anne.
posted by rushmc at 11:27 AM on October 4, 2002
Okay, I lied. I DO miss Carol Anne.
posted by rushmc at 11:27 AM on October 4, 2002
People come and people go
All that matters is
Miguel's an attention ho.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all week. Try the veal, and please remember to tip your waitperson.
posted by Thunderslut at 11:30 AM on October 4, 2002
All that matters is
Miguel's an attention ho.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all week. Try the veal, and please remember to tip your waitperson.
posted by Thunderslut at 11:30 AM on October 4, 2002
Did I miss something? When did Evanizer become an older MeFite?
He came, he hung out, he decided his time was better spent other ways. Which part of this is a problem for those who continue to participate?
posted by NortonDC at 11:50 AM on October 4, 2002
He came, he hung out, he decided his time was better spent other ways. Which part of this is a problem for those who continue to participate?
posted by NortonDC at 11:50 AM on October 4, 2002
Y'know.. I miss a lot of people who have left. Note that I don't even realize all the different people who *have* left. I just know I miss some specific people.
Mainly because they were intelligent. They contributed links I followed that didn't relate to the daily news. They had points of view they were willing to clear state out. They listened to my points of view and we closed the gaps together.
The problem is, they weren't people I had an 'email' correspondence level with, so here was the only place I could interact. When they left, well, that was it.
There still are people like that, but I think in smaller supply, or at least percentages of active users, than 'before.'
I noticed that evan hadn't posted in a while the past couple days and was wondering about that. In other words, his were comments that I always paused to pay attention to.
But hey, don't listen to me.. matt's been trying to get rid of me ever since the alistapart fiasco. And my user contribution index is below .62.
posted by rich at 12:07 PM on October 4, 2002
Mainly because they were intelligent. They contributed links I followed that didn't relate to the daily news. They had points of view they were willing to clear state out. They listened to my points of view and we closed the gaps together.
The problem is, they weren't people I had an 'email' correspondence level with, so here was the only place I could interact. When they left, well, that was it.
There still are people like that, but I think in smaller supply, or at least percentages of active users, than 'before.'
I noticed that evan hadn't posted in a while the past couple days and was wondering about that. In other words, his were comments that I always paused to pay attention to.
But hey, don't listen to me.. matt's been trying to get rid of me ever since the alistapart fiasco. And my user contribution index is below .62.
posted by rich at 12:07 PM on October 4, 2002
What was "the alistapart fiasco"?
posted by timeistight at 12:28 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by timeistight at 12:28 PM on October 4, 2002
People come and people go
All that matters is
Miguel's an attention ho.
I'm laughing. A lot. You could say I'm LingOL.
posted by Summer at 12:34 PM on October 4, 2002
All that matters is
Miguel's an attention ho.
I'm laughing. A lot. You could say I'm LingOL.
posted by Summer at 12:34 PM on October 4, 2002
I've been distracted by other things the past couple of weeks so my usual habit of checking the front page every hour went by the wayside. Coming back on several occasions and seeing 50+ post and not be interested in a single one was a bit of a shock.
I loved this place, I wanted to keep it like it was so I could continue loving it. It's just too far gone now.
posted by Mick at 12:48 PM on October 4, 2002
I loved this place, I wanted to keep it like it was so I could continue loving it. It's just too far gone now.
posted by Mick at 12:48 PM on October 4, 2002
Thank all of you for making my days brighter.
I'm staying, warts and all. Sometimes I just read, sometimes I post, but I always enjoy the banter. Too bad when others can't appreciate the diversity!
posted by nofundy at 12:48 PM on October 4, 2002
I'm staying, warts and all. Sometimes I just read, sometimes I post, but I always enjoy the banter. Too bad when others can't appreciate the diversity!
posted by nofundy at 12:48 PM on October 4, 2002
I dunno, I sorta like feeling superior knowing that my number (2024) is getting lower by the minute =).
posted by Kevs at 1:21 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by Kevs at 1:21 PM on October 4, 2002
I think it's impossible to measure a vacuum. "All the people who have left: stand up and be counted. Oh, whoops, they left, I can't count them."
All this navel-gazing makes for entertaining reading, though. "I will miss you all when you go, unless it's me that leaves. The rest of you will make me insane with frustration, or I'll ignore you. And then I'll leave. Or you will. But I won't miss you because there are so many people filling the gaps. You will miss me because I'm an impeccable member of MeFi. Those of you who won't miss me clearly misunderstood me...."
There are so many variations on the who's gone, are they leaving, why did they leave question, but I can't see any useful answers that come from the response. It is the people who stay who make the difference on MeFi for good or bad.
*On a related note: don't leave, chef. I can't fill your shoes, or dance the Tarantella. I might be able to dance the Tarantula, though.*
posted by readymade at 1:29 PM on October 4, 2002
All this navel-gazing makes for entertaining reading, though. "I will miss you all when you go, unless it's me that leaves. The rest of you will make me insane with frustration, or I'll ignore you. And then I'll leave. Or you will. But I won't miss you because there are so many people filling the gaps. You will miss me because I'm an impeccable member of MeFi. Those of you who won't miss me clearly misunderstood me...."
There are so many variations on the who's gone, are they leaving, why did they leave question, but I can't see any useful answers that come from the response. It is the people who stay who make the difference on MeFi for good or bad.
*On a related note: don't leave, chef. I can't fill your shoes, or dance the Tarantella. I might be able to dance the Tarantula, though.*
posted by readymade at 1:29 PM on October 4, 2002
Right! You are all on my shit-list right now...because with all this talk of leaving I've got Clint Eastwood singing in my brain, "The falling leaves.....drift by my window..." Aaaaargh!
~commits suicide~
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:06 PM on October 4, 2002
~commits suicide~
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:06 PM on October 4, 2002
I'm still here! Anyone?
posted by grrarrgh00 at 3:07 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by grrarrgh00 at 3:07 PM on October 4, 2002
I'm not leaving. In fact, I've locked myself in. I've locked all of you in. There will be a toll to get out. (Payable to Matt, of course.)
posted by aine42 at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by aine42 at 3:21 PM on October 4, 2002
Who could give a chuffin shit? There are plenty of snidey gay dudes about
posted by Fat Buddha at 3:59 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by Fat Buddha at 3:59 PM on October 4, 2002
It is the people who stay who make the difference on MeFi for good or bad.
Yes.
posted by rushmc at 4:05 PM on October 4, 2002
Yes.
posted by rushmc at 4:05 PM on October 4, 2002
I left for 6 months and not a single person noticed to the best of my knowledge. Hell, just today I had to go to class for two hours and nobody even posted to MetaTalk about it.
Now, I don't like these so-called meficide notes, but Evanizer's was a cut above others because he actually admitted that there were things going on in his life that might have changed his mefi experience, rather than blaming it on the fact that we're all poopyheads. He did a little of that too, but there was a perspective to it that made it honest, rather than just a pathetic attention-hungry bitching session. SDB.
And NortonDC is right, Evanizer was by no means an old user. I'm not either, but I remember when he first arrived. The thing was, though, that he jumped into the fray immediately so that it seemed like he'd been around forever. Sure, I miss a lot of old users (where did jpoulos go?), but with volley after volley coming into the breach every day, there are so many really intelligent newcomers who seem to "get it" right from the start and hit the ground already making contributions to the site, just like Evanizer and all the other dearly-departed MeFites did. There are plenty of fish in the sea, is what I'm saying.
posted by Hildago at 4:20 PM on October 4, 2002
Now, I don't like these so-called meficide notes, but Evanizer's was a cut above others because he actually admitted that there were things going on in his life that might have changed his mefi experience, rather than blaming it on the fact that we're all poopyheads. He did a little of that too, but there was a perspective to it that made it honest, rather than just a pathetic attention-hungry bitching session. SDB.
And NortonDC is right, Evanizer was by no means an old user. I'm not either, but I remember when he first arrived. The thing was, though, that he jumped into the fray immediately so that it seemed like he'd been around forever. Sure, I miss a lot of old users (where did jpoulos go?), but with volley after volley coming into the breach every day, there are so many really intelligent newcomers who seem to "get it" right from the start and hit the ground already making contributions to the site, just like Evanizer and all the other dearly-departed MeFites did. There are plenty of fish in the sea, is what I'm saying.
posted by Hildago at 4:20 PM on October 4, 2002
I, for one, personally await the return of Jesus.
He will rise again!
posted by Stan Chin at 4:37 PM on October 4, 2002
He will rise again!
posted by Stan Chin at 4:37 PM on October 4, 2002
Sorry, I got the gig now.
posted by Nicolae Carpathia at 5:20 PM on October 4, 2002
posted by Nicolae Carpathia at 5:20 PM on October 4, 2002
the fact that we're all poopyheads
*singing*
I'm a poopyhead, He's a poopyhead, She's a poopyhead, would'tcha like to be a poopyhead too...
Heads fulla poopy, big stinky poopy...
posted by jonmc at 6:50 PM on October 4, 2002
*singing*
I'm a poopyhead, He's a poopyhead, She's a poopyhead, would'tcha like to be a poopyhead too...
Heads fulla poopy, big stinky poopy...
posted by jonmc at 6:50 PM on October 4, 2002
MetaFilter: LazerTag With Words
I'd like to point out that since the last time I posted to this thread, I have left MeFi in a huff three thousand nine hundred and twenty-seven times. I left so many times I started buying drinks for myself on the way back in. I may have disproven Einstein's Theory of Relativity and just briefly I do believe I might have touched the face of God. Or that could have been the jagermeister.
Evanizer's points.
MeFi is boring. He's got a point. If it's not people arguing over whether or not something is valid to talk about in MeFi, the conversation is about the Middle East, or Washington DC, or how many people have died in curiously strange ways. We've covered the same territory so many times, people have started predicting what other people are gonna say next, and they're often predicting right. When an argument starts showing patterns of repeat behavior, it's time to either turn the wheel or hit the brakes.
The quality of linkage has in fact gone south. People go the easy route, linking to a news story about something vaguely similar to what people were talking about yesterday, rather than going out there on the 'Net, digging through the craziness and finding a new and exciting web site that's taking things to a whole new level. Maybe that's because there are no new exciting websites out there. Maybe we've reached the limit? No more levels? Maybe the Web simply has nothing new and exciting to offer, so what MeFites do scrounge up all looks like the same old same old?
The discussion often deteriorates into arguments over the guidelines and thus actual thought provoking dialogue gets waylaid. The few times in recent memory I've come across a thread that was more than drift policing, the topic either didn't interest me personally or admittedly those who were talking were just way over my head.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
As for the "attacks" Evanizer refers to, that's par for the course in MeFi and has been pretty much since there's been more than a few dozen regular users in the place at any given time. It's human nature to call one another names and argue the validity of one's mother. It's stupid, but people do it all the time. Does that make it right? Of course not. Is that what's causing the end of MeFi? Nothing is causing MeFi to end.
MeFi ends for you when you stop coming here. MeFi has ended for Evanizer, provided he doesn't return. If he does, then it's not over yet. Simple as that. MeFi ends for all of us the day Matt pulls the plug. Until then, I personally wish people would quit predicting the end and just try to enjoy themselves while in here. However, then it wouldn't be MeFi would it?
MetaFilter: Because Misery Loves Company
posted by ZachsMind at 7:32 PM on October 4, 2002
I'd like to point out that since the last time I posted to this thread, I have left MeFi in a huff three thousand nine hundred and twenty-seven times. I left so many times I started buying drinks for myself on the way back in. I may have disproven Einstein's Theory of Relativity and just briefly I do believe I might have touched the face of God. Or that could have been the jagermeister.
Evanizer's points.
MeFi is boring. He's got a point. If it's not people arguing over whether or not something is valid to talk about in MeFi, the conversation is about the Middle East, or Washington DC, or how many people have died in curiously strange ways. We've covered the same territory so many times, people have started predicting what other people are gonna say next, and they're often predicting right. When an argument starts showing patterns of repeat behavior, it's time to either turn the wheel or hit the brakes.
The quality of linkage has in fact gone south. People go the easy route, linking to a news story about something vaguely similar to what people were talking about yesterday, rather than going out there on the 'Net, digging through the craziness and finding a new and exciting web site that's taking things to a whole new level. Maybe that's because there are no new exciting websites out there. Maybe we've reached the limit? No more levels? Maybe the Web simply has nothing new and exciting to offer, so what MeFites do scrounge up all looks like the same old same old?
The discussion often deteriorates into arguments over the guidelines and thus actual thought provoking dialogue gets waylaid. The few times in recent memory I've come across a thread that was more than drift policing, the topic either didn't interest me personally or admittedly those who were talking were just way over my head.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
As for the "attacks" Evanizer refers to, that's par for the course in MeFi and has been pretty much since there's been more than a few dozen regular users in the place at any given time. It's human nature to call one another names and argue the validity of one's mother. It's stupid, but people do it all the time. Does that make it right? Of course not. Is that what's causing the end of MeFi? Nothing is causing MeFi to end.
MeFi ends for you when you stop coming here. MeFi has ended for Evanizer, provided he doesn't return. If he does, then it's not over yet. Simple as that. MeFi ends for all of us the day Matt pulls the plug. Until then, I personally wish people would quit predicting the end and just try to enjoy themselves while in here. However, then it wouldn't be MeFi would it?
MetaFilter: Because Misery Loves Company
posted by ZachsMind at 7:32 PM on October 4, 2002
Personally, a lot of the reason I've kept reading over the past two and change years is because I love watching dhartung verbally bend people over the MeFi park bench and use his mental blackjack on them in ways It Was Not Intended To Be, to complete the metaphor.
There are some other people who do it just as well, if not better, but none so consistently. As long as that, the snarkiness, and the 'wow I missed that link' factor is here, this place outranks K5, Plastic, and quite a few others (the hint of Fark thrown in with all the Friday flash games is quite welcome, in all honesty). I'll be around to argue gaming, guns, and philosophy (and whatever bits of politics naturally extend forth from my knowledge of those three) until the server's harddisk platter crumbles away into dust.
posted by Ryvar at 7:51 PM on October 4, 2002
There are some other people who do it just as well, if not better, but none so consistently. As long as that, the snarkiness, and the 'wow I missed that link' factor is here, this place outranks K5, Plastic, and quite a few others (the hint of Fark thrown in with all the Friday flash games is quite welcome, in all honesty). I'll be around to argue gaming, guns, and philosophy (and whatever bits of politics naturally extend forth from my knowledge of those three) until the server's harddisk platter crumbles away into dust.
posted by Ryvar at 7:51 PM on October 4, 2002
I really liked 'Trolling-For-Felatio evanizer'. This thread made me log in.
posted by goneill at 5:36 AM on October 5, 2002
posted by goneill at 5:36 AM on October 5, 2002
people who leave in a huff really piss me off, given i'm stuck in this lousy chevy.
posted by quonsar at 8:24 AM on October 5, 2002
posted by quonsar at 8:24 AM on October 5, 2002
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posted by donkeyschlong at 2:25 AM on October 4, 2002