Metafilter accounts on BugMeNot December 1, 2004 3:37 PM Subscribe
I am concerned about the appearance of Metafilter accounts on BugMeNot.
Probably pointless to respond since there are a plethora of kamus-es (kamui?) but from the bugmenot faq:
Are you going to steal my identity or rob my credit card?
No. Our policy forbids accounts to paid services from being posted. However, just like a discussion forum, if you happen to find one then email and it will be removed. Privacy is not considered a commodity.
Are you going to bankrupt my paid content service?
See above. If you are losing sleep over this then email the url and we'll add your site to the "automatically blocked" list.
posted by ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo.. at 3:46 PM on December 1, 2004
Are you going to steal my identity or rob my credit card?
No. Our policy forbids accounts to paid services from being posted. However, just like a discussion forum, if you happen to find one then email and it will be removed. Privacy is not considered a commodity.
Are you going to bankrupt my paid content service?
See above. If you are losing sleep over this then email the url and we'll add your site to the "automatically blocked" list.
posted by ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo.. at 3:46 PM on December 1, 2004
The amusing part being, of course, that the login in question is 'kamus'
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:47 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:47 PM on December 1, 2004
there look to be 5 other mefi accounts listed on bugmenot, although 2, possibly 3, look fake.
nice things? what nice things?
posted by myopicman at 3:49 PM on December 1, 2004
nice things? what nice things?
posted by myopicman at 3:49 PM on December 1, 2004
public@bugmenot.com is the email address that mathowie needs.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:52 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:52 PM on December 1, 2004
Crap, I tried to put the address in and it didn't work. Thanks dirtynumbangelbiy.
posted by ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo.. at 4:00 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo.. at 4:00 PM on December 1, 2004
Yeah, as much as I love bugmenot, the thing wasn't designed for gaining entry to sites with memberships. The point of bugmenot was to get around annoying places that put a gate up in front of their content. You can read everything outside of metafilter that you can when logged in.
I hope they don't have slashdot and totalfark accounts on there. Seems dumb.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:01 PM on December 1, 2004
I hope they don't have slashdot and totalfark accounts on there. Seems dumb.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:01 PM on December 1, 2004
Set the flesh eating bacteria loose.
This is going to be a problem and I wonder if there is some server side thing that can be done to reject bugmenot. I have no doubt that this is the tip of the iceberg and there are going to be plenty of people willing to pay five bucks to mess with MeFi. The one post a day thing will mitigate this somewhat but it could make for some ugly threads and waste a great deal user #1's time playing whack-a-mole.
bugmenot logins... featured soon on the site that shall not be named.
posted by cedar at 4:01 PM on December 1, 2004
This is going to be a problem and I wonder if there is some server side thing that can be done to reject bugmenot. I have no doubt that this is the tip of the iceberg and there are going to be plenty of people willing to pay five bucks to mess with MeFi. The one post a day thing will mitigate this somewhat but it could make for some ugly threads and waste a great deal user #1's time playing whack-a-mole.
bugmenot logins... featured soon on the site that shall not be named.
posted by cedar at 4:01 PM on December 1, 2004
Just click on "this login didn't work" and it gets deleted. poof!
posted by PrinceValium at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by PrinceValium at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2004
well... let's say kamus is a 2nd declension noun. The plural would then be kami. Technically, if it were translated you'd want the genetive plural, kamorum.
posted by sbutler at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by sbutler at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2004
there look to be 5 other mefi accounts listed on bugmenot, although 2, possibly 3, look fake.
It lists 9 , I would suggest 8-9 are fake, login obviously is old, some are just something somone has added as an ineffectual dig at someone they don't like, such as jpoluos and y2karl, others are crap linked to kamus. Once Matt gets back from wherever Matt goes in the day then no doubt he will sort this chimp out, and hopefully use his sign-up money for an ice cream.
posted by biffa at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2004
It lists 9 , I would suggest 8-9 are fake, login obviously is old, some are just something somone has added as an ineffectual dig at someone they don't like, such as jpoluos and y2karl, others are crap linked to kamus. Once Matt gets back from wherever Matt goes in the day then no doubt he will sort this chimp out, and hopefully use his sign-up money for an ice cream.
posted by biffa at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2004
once Matt gets back from wherever Matt goes in the day
It does feel kind of mysterious and Ward Cleaver-ish, doesn't it?
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:08 PM on December 1, 2004
It does feel kind of mysterious and Ward Cleaver-ish, doesn't it?
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:08 PM on December 1, 2004
They actually don't seem to be deleted when you say that they don't work.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:09 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:09 PM on December 1, 2004
... the thing wasn't designed for gaining entry to sites with memberships. The point of bugmenot was to get around annoying places that put a gate up in front of their content
*studiesfine line -- decides to go back to studying mass, space and light*
posted by Dick Paris at 4:09 PM on December 1, 2004
*studies
posted by Dick Paris at 4:09 PM on December 1, 2004
Just click on "this login didn't work" and it gets deleted. poof!
No, it doesn't. And don't call me a poof.
posted by ChrisTN at 4:11 PM on December 1, 2004
No, it doesn't. And don't call me a poof.
posted by ChrisTN at 4:11 PM on December 1, 2004
eb: bummer. i ran through the list hitting the no workie button, went back to the main, refreshed, and a "no logins" message showed. closing and reopeining the browser shows the same logins.
posted by moonbird at 4:12 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by moonbird at 4:12 PM on December 1, 2004
It would take multiple people (hopefully from different IPs) clicking "it don't work" otherwise ppl at NYT and other places could just go in once a day and delete all the logins making bugmenot pretty useless.
posted by dobbs at 4:15 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by dobbs at 4:15 PM on December 1, 2004
>well... let's say kamus is a 2nd declension noun. The plural would then be kami. Technically, if it were translated you'd want the genetive plural, kamorum.
[this is good]
posted by philfromhavelock at 4:16 PM on December 1, 2004
[this is good]
posted by philfromhavelock at 4:16 PM on December 1, 2004
amazon and thinkgeek on bugmenot? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all. Are people supposed to use it to anonymously buy junk or something?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:28 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:28 PM on December 1, 2004
I don't get it. What does kamus mean, that kamorum is funny?
posted by kenko at 4:31 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by kenko at 4:31 PM on December 1, 2004
Someone got their irony in my sarcasm!!!!
Damn, maybe I can sell it to Nestle?
posted by fenriq at 4:34 PM on December 1, 2004
Damn, maybe I can sell it to Nestle?
posted by fenriq at 4:34 PM on December 1, 2004
Hopefully neither of those accounts are hacked and have cc# attached to them.
I'd just like to know if kamus did this himself.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:34 PM on December 1, 2004
I'd just like to know if kamus did this himself.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:34 PM on December 1, 2004
kenko: actually, I didn't bother looking it up. K isn't common in latin, except as borrowed from Greek (if I remember correctly), so you'd really best search under camus.
Now, neither of those words appear in my New College Latin & English dictionary (which is starting to show its age). But Whitaker says "(c/k)amus: necklace, muzzle/bit/curb for horses". But kamorum can be much more interesting: "kind of beer".
... but to ruin the joke, I think philfromhavelock was just amused anyone would respond with a bit of latin grammar.
posted by sbutler at 4:45 PM on December 1, 2004
Now, neither of those words appear in my New College Latin & English dictionary (which is starting to show its age). But Whitaker says "(c/k)amus: necklace, muzzle/bit/curb for horses". But kamorum can be much more interesting: "kind of beer".
... but to ruin the joke, I think philfromhavelock was just amused anyone would respond with a bit of latin grammar.
posted by sbutler at 4:45 PM on December 1, 2004
I'm finding lots of strange sites listed on bugmenot, thinkgeek and other community sites (even my own, does that make it cool?).. How odd.
posted by dabitch at 5:01 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by dabitch at 5:01 PM on December 1, 2004
Actually it was me who posted it in the first place I didn't know this had been done before, and I need to apologize about it. I didn't think that it would be trouble; I didn't know about the damage and offensive nature of the 8/01 incident before I posted the link. I am glad it didn't turn into the login incident. I didn't mean it to be malicious, or mean spirited, I thought that a link referencing itself fit the metafilter theme and i didn't even consider that anyone who uses the board would take it to extremes.
I have sent an email to bugmenot describing the trouble some sites listed on there may cause. I sent an apology to Matt as well. Again, to the metafilter community, very sorry for what could have been a pretty awful mess.
posted by joelf at 5:04 PM on December 1, 2004
I have sent an email to bugmenot describing the trouble some sites listed on there may cause. I sent an apology to Matt as well. Again, to the metafilter community, very sorry for what could have been a pretty awful mess.
posted by joelf at 5:04 PM on December 1, 2004
Ethereal Bligh "I'd just like to know if kamus did this himself." I don't think he did, as the user name and pass works on a number of sites including ones that could cost him money. I have changed the passwords and sent an e-mail to all the addresses he had listed in his profiles. If he did do this then he is scary dumb.
posted by arse_hat at 5:07 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by arse_hat at 5:07 PM on December 1, 2004
Ah, I hadn't seen that part of ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo..'s comment.
posted by kenko at 5:09 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by kenko at 5:09 PM on December 1, 2004
It could be fourth declension too, then it'd be kamuum.
posted by kenko at 5:10 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by kenko at 5:10 PM on December 1, 2004
joelf: Eh. I had fun. Thanks. :) Sometimes we need a little grabassery. And thanks for fessing up.
posted by loquacious at 5:20 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by loquacious at 5:20 PM on December 1, 2004
well if we had to stare into pages of gaping assholes, we'd probably be rougher on joelf, but in this case it was no big deal.
I need a red phone for things like this.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:36 PM on December 1, 2004
I need a red phone for things like this.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:36 PM on December 1, 2004
I hope they don't have slashdot and totalfark accounts on there.
Slashdot is pay now? I don't see it.
posted by BradNelson at 5:45 PM on December 1, 2004
Slashdot is pay now? I don't see it.
posted by BradNelson at 5:45 PM on December 1, 2004
oh gosh, mathowie, don't remind me. I had just cleared the image from my mind!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 PM on December 1, 2004 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 PM on December 1, 2004 [1 favorite]
None of the accounts on Bugmenot work. Not that I tried them or anything while I was lurking. No siree. Just a hunch really. You know what, forget it.
posted by rooftop secrets at 5:59 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by rooftop secrets at 5:59 PM on December 1, 2004
Hark! Is that the Matt-phone!? To the Matt-cave!
posted by loquacious at 6:16 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by loquacious at 6:16 PM on December 1, 2004
I have a "Kamus Inggris Indonesia" (ie an Indonesian/English dictionary) sitting on my desk, plural being kamus kamus.
posted by blender at 6:27 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by blender at 6:27 PM on December 1, 2004
It would take multiple people (hopefully from different IPs) clicking "it don't work" otherwise ppl at NYT and other places could just go in once a day and delete all the logins making bugmenot pretty useless.
You aren't very smart, are you?
posted by lazy-ville at 6:28 PM on December 1, 2004
You aren't very smart, are you?
posted by lazy-ville at 6:28 PM on December 1, 2004
MetaFilter: pages of gaping assholes
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:36 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:36 PM on December 1, 2004
because it's always OK to tag-mine #1.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:36 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:36 PM on December 1, 2004
When you stare into the gaping asshole, the gaping asshole stares back into you.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:03 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:03 PM on December 1, 2004
I knew someone was going to tag that.
posted by loquacious at 7:05 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by loquacious at 7:05 PM on December 1, 2004
Account #3
jpoulos
I_Hate_Noobs
Aw man. So untrue. I ♥ the noobs. ♥ 'em , I do.
posted by jpoulos at 7:09 PM on December 1, 2004
jpoulos
I_Hate_Noobs
Aw man. So untrue. I ♥ the noobs. ♥ 'em , I do.
posted by jpoulos at 7:09 PM on December 1, 2004
I need a red phone for things like this.
The Matt-Signal!
posted by tracicle at 7:11 PM on December 1, 2004
The Matt-Signal!
posted by tracicle at 7:11 PM on December 1, 2004
well if we had to stare into pages of gaping assholes, we'd probably be rougher on joelf, but in this case it was no big deal.
you don't WANT to be exposed to anus?
posted by mr.marx at 7:23 PM on December 1, 2004
you don't WANT to be exposed to anus?
posted by mr.marx at 7:23 PM on December 1, 2004
I need a red phone for things like this.
posted by mathowie at 5:36 PM PST on December 1
Just post your mobile number in the faq.
posted by orange clock at 7:37 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by mathowie at 5:36 PM PST on December 1
Just post your mobile number in the faq.
posted by orange clock at 7:37 PM on December 1, 2004
TypeKey is up there. Lotta good that service does if banned trolls can just go grab another login.
posted by me3dia at 8:18 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by me3dia at 8:18 PM on December 1, 2004
>... but to ruin the joke, I think philfromhavelock was just amused anyone would respond with a bit of latin grammar.
You're right, sbutler.
posted by philfromhavelock at 9:04 PM on December 1, 2004
You're right, sbutler.
posted by philfromhavelock at 9:04 PM on December 1, 2004
You aren't very smart, are you?
You wanna tell me why what I said was stupid?
posted by dobbs at 10:04 PM on December 1, 2004
You wanna tell me why what I said was stupid?
posted by dobbs at 10:04 PM on December 1, 2004
dobbs am smart, too! chunk say dobbs smart! chunk love dobbs!
posted by scarabic at 11:39 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by scarabic at 11:39 PM on December 1, 2004
heh. Thanks scarabic (I think). FTR, I wasn't insulted by the comment but am rather curious as to how my logic isn't logical.
posted by dobbs at 11:57 PM on December 1, 2004
posted by dobbs at 11:57 PM on December 1, 2004
joelf, "Actually it was me who posted it in the first place"
loquacious, "joelf: Eh. I had fun. Thanks. :)"
mathowie, "well if we had to stare into pages of gaping assholes, we'd probably be rougher on joelf, but in this case it was no big deal."
WTF?
Joelf. While it was good of you to own up to what you did you are still an addle-pated sucker of Satan's mother's withered dugs. You exposed the MeFi to a potential shit storm of crap but more importantly you exposed the owner of the account to much worse. To forestall argument, yes it's true folks ought not use the same login/password combo at more than one site, but human nature being what it is some people will do it anyway. As a member of this community couldn't you have just notified Matt and Kamus when you found Kamus's combo online? We all do dumb things from time to time but I would hope the other members here would protect each other. It's one thing to call someone’s opinions out but in exposing someone’s login info this event exposed a user to potential real world harm.
Matt. Is looking at someone's abused rectum really worse than having logins exposed that could cost MeFi member’s money and much time to sort out? Yes again, good security practice by users would avoid that but being offended by a post is a lot less damage than having account info exposed.
I guess I am just disappointed that no one seems too upset that a user's login was exposed. I have loved MeFi for awhile and the last couple of weeks with it's dwindling load of political posts has been wonderful but this sucks.
posted by arse_hat at 12:05 AM on December 2, 2004
loquacious, "joelf: Eh. I had fun. Thanks. :)"
mathowie, "well if we had to stare into pages of gaping assholes, we'd probably be rougher on joelf, but in this case it was no big deal."
WTF?
Joelf. While it was good of you to own up to what you did you are still an addle-pated sucker of Satan's mother's withered dugs. You exposed the MeFi to a potential shit storm of crap but more importantly you exposed the owner of the account to much worse. To forestall argument, yes it's true folks ought not use the same login/password combo at more than one site, but human nature being what it is some people will do it anyway. As a member of this community couldn't you have just notified Matt and Kamus when you found Kamus's combo online? We all do dumb things from time to time but I would hope the other members here would protect each other. It's one thing to call someone’s opinions out but in exposing someone’s login info this event exposed a user to potential real world harm.
Matt. Is looking at someone's abused rectum really worse than having logins exposed that could cost MeFi member’s money and much time to sort out? Yes again, good security practice by users would avoid that but being offended by a post is a lot less damage than having account info exposed.
I guess I am just disappointed that no one seems too upset that a user's login was exposed. I have loved MeFi for awhile and the last couple of weeks with it's dwindling load of political posts has been wonderful but this sucks.
posted by arse_hat at 12:05 AM on December 2, 2004
And you should lay off. Yeah, it was a crap thing to do, but he apologized to us and to Matt, and, ultimately, there was no harm done. And now that Matt is alerted it won't be happening again.
Let it go.
posted by ruddhist at 12:15 AM on December 2, 2004
Let it go.
posted by ruddhist at 12:15 AM on December 2, 2004
ruddhist. "but he apologized to us and to Matt" Big Fuck'n Deal. He didn't do anything of real or portantial harm to me, you or Matt. Has he apologized to Kamus? And why won't it happen again?
posted by arse_hat at 12:22 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by arse_hat at 12:22 AM on December 2, 2004
Has he apologized to Kamus?
That's really between them, isn't it? I'd probably be pretty pissed off if it happened to me, but it didn't. So it's none of my business, anyway.
And why won't it happen again?
I'm assuming it won't happen again because Matt already contacted the BugMeNot folks and told them to block MetaFilter logins. Maybe I'm wrong and he hasn't done that, and if he hasn't, then I don't know that it won't happen again. But I do know that Mr. Haughey generally tends to take pretty good care of his flock, yeah?
He didn't do anything of real or portantial harm to me
That's right.
Look, I never tried to justify it. I'm just saying joelf apologized and tried to make it right, it's been rectified, and Matt's given his judgement from upon high. We all know this was a Bad Thing. Let's move on, alright?
posted by ruddhist at 12:37 AM on December 2, 2004
That's really between them, isn't it? I'd probably be pretty pissed off if it happened to me, but it didn't. So it's none of my business, anyway.
And why won't it happen again?
I'm assuming it won't happen again because Matt already contacted the BugMeNot folks and told them to block MetaFilter logins. Maybe I'm wrong and he hasn't done that, and if he hasn't, then I don't know that it won't happen again. But I do know that Mr. Haughey generally tends to take pretty good care of his flock, yeah?
He didn't do anything of real or portantial harm to me
That's right.
Look, I never tried to justify it. I'm just saying joelf apologized and tried to make it right, it's been rectified, and Matt's given his judgement from upon high. We all know this was a Bad Thing. Let's move on, alright?
posted by ruddhist at 12:37 AM on December 2, 2004
arse_hat, I may be completely wrong (I'm not too smart, remember), but I was under the impression that someone created the account KAMUS with the intention of fucking up MeFi by submitting it to Bugmenot. Otherwise, how would Bugmenot get their login info?
Though I don't think joelf was thinking too clearly when he made the post, I don't think he offended Kamus as this mess was exactly what Kamus was hoping for. He's no doubt giggling at this very thread.
Again, I could be wrong, but that was my understanding of what happened. No doubt Kamus is an angry MeFite. (Or a stupid one who thinks something like this and other "pranks" are funny. Whoever s/he is, s/he's obviously very very bored and not too swift.)
This is what I meant with my initial post though as I read it now I see I put "post" when I meant "login". I thought Matt could see who initially signed up the Kamus account (via IP) and compare it to existing member's IPs and ban the culprit.
posted by dobbs at 12:39 AM on December 2, 2004
Though I don't think joelf was thinking too clearly when he made the post, I don't think he offended Kamus as this mess was exactly what Kamus was hoping for. He's no doubt giggling at this very thread.
Again, I could be wrong, but that was my understanding of what happened. No doubt Kamus is an angry MeFite. (Or a stupid one who thinks something like this and other "pranks" are funny. Whoever s/he is, s/he's obviously very very bored and not too swift.)
This is what I meant with my initial post though as I read it now I see I put "post" when I meant "login". I thought Matt could see who initially signed up the Kamus account (via IP) and compare it to existing member's IPs and ban the culprit.
posted by dobbs at 12:39 AM on December 2, 2004
“Has he apologized to Kamus? That's really between them, isn't it? “
OK cool so should I find your MiFi login info and tell someone else about it you won't mind if anyone else here who might know about just does nothing?
“And why won't it happen again?
I'm assuming it won't happen again because Matt already contacted the BugMeNot “
How does BugMeNot enter into it? It just happened to be the vehicle. It does not change that fact that joelf brought it public instead of bringing it to Matt.
“But I do know that Mr. Haughey generally tends to take pretty good care of his flock, yeah?”
Yeah, but NOT THIS TIME.
“He didn't do anything of real or potential harm to me
That's right.”
And your point?
“Look, I never tried to justify it. I'm just saying joelf apologized and tried to make it right, it's been rectified, and Matt's given his judgment from upon high. We all know this was a Bad Thing. Let's move on, all right?”
Obviously not with me or I would not have brought it up.
posted by arse_hat at 12:49 AM on December 2, 2004
OK cool so should I find your MiFi login info and tell someone else about it you won't mind if anyone else here who might know about just does nothing?
“And why won't it happen again?
I'm assuming it won't happen again because Matt already contacted the BugMeNot “
How does BugMeNot enter into it? It just happened to be the vehicle. It does not change that fact that joelf brought it public instead of bringing it to Matt.
“But I do know that Mr. Haughey generally tends to take pretty good care of his flock, yeah?”
Yeah, but NOT THIS TIME.
“He didn't do anything of real or potential harm to me
That's right.”
And your point?
“Look, I never tried to justify it. I'm just saying joelf apologized and tried to make it right, it's been rectified, and Matt's given his judgment from upon high. We all know this was a Bad Thing. Let's move on, all right?”
Obviously not with me or I would not have brought it up.
posted by arse_hat at 12:49 AM on December 2, 2004
dobbs. Kamus is a real person and and hehas been here at MeFi for a while. This compromissed login was the same login he used for other sites. Right after the MeFi incident someone did the same thing at MoFi. This was Dave's login for a number of sites (yes i know that's dumb but people do it all the time) including things that could cost him a sack of cash. After I saw what was happening I hi-jacked a number of his accounts and changed the password and then sent it to him. All is well now but my issue is why would anyone here, after finiding another user's live password online publish it and why would Matt say "in this case it was no big deal"?
posted by arse_hat at 1:00 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by arse_hat at 1:00 AM on December 2, 2004
I understand your point and it's valid. My point is that joelf understands he handled the situation poorly and doesn't need a new asshole torn for him by the Junior MeTa Police. And the rest of us understand how to handle the situation should it happen again in the future. So everyone understands everything and you can calm down, kthx.
As for Number One, well, he doesn't answer to you, to me, or to any of us. He's like Judge Dredd: judge, jury, and executioner. He is the law.
Yeah, but NOT THIS TIME.
O ye of little faith. Want a cookie?
posted by ruddhist at 1:10 AM on December 2, 2004
As for Number One, well, he doesn't answer to you, to me, or to any of us. He's like Judge Dredd: judge, jury, and executioner. He is the law.
Yeah, but NOT THIS TIME.
O ye of little faith. Want a cookie?
posted by ruddhist at 1:10 AM on December 2, 2004
Kamus is a real person and and hehas been here at MeFi for a while.
A while? His user number is 18262. The user page lists him as signing up 2 weeks ago.
Ugh. Whatever. I think most people made the same assumption I did. That something hadn't been hacked as much as it had been intentionally FUBAR'D.
On preview...
posted by dobbs at 1:15 AM on December 2, 2004
A while? His user number is 18262. The user page lists him as signing up 2 weeks ago.
Ugh. Whatever. I think most people made the same assumption I did. That something hadn't been hacked as much as it had been intentionally FUBAR'D.
On preview...
posted by dobbs at 1:15 AM on December 2, 2004
"joelf ...doesn't need a new asshole torn for him by the Junior MeTa Police"
I disagree. Fucktard needs to see that he could have done real harm to another human being. This was not just a call out in the meta world. Shit for brains did a lot worse than tubgirl/footballs/goatse.
" And the rest of us understand how to handle the situation should it happen again in the future."
Really? I would not have figured that out from this thread. No one seemed to care about the fate of the account holder. Just whether or not he or she got to be righteous about seeing some picture of a sorry looking shithole.
"As for Number One, well, he doesn't answer to you, to me, or to any of us. He's like Judge Dredd: judge, jury, and executioner."
Good point. Matt please delete my account.
"Want a cookie?"
No.
posted by arse_hat at 1:25 AM on December 2, 2004
I disagree. Fucktard needs to see that he could have done real harm to another human being. This was not just a call out in the meta world. Shit for brains did a lot worse than tubgirl/footballs/goatse.
" And the rest of us understand how to handle the situation should it happen again in the future."
Really? I would not have figured that out from this thread. No one seemed to care about the fate of the account holder. Just whether or not he or she got to be righteous about seeing some picture of a sorry looking shithole.
"As for Number One, well, he doesn't answer to you, to me, or to any of us. He's like Judge Dredd: judge, jury, and executioner."
Good point. Matt please delete my account.
"Want a cookie?"
No.
posted by arse_hat at 1:25 AM on December 2, 2004
Dobbs: If the NYT et al. would want to disable bugmenotted logins, why would they need to delete them from the bugmenot site?
posted by lazy-ville at 4:08 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by lazy-ville at 4:08 AM on December 2, 2004
asshole, Fucktard, Shit for brains, tubgirl/footballs/goatse, righteous sorry looking shithole.
This thread is a lot of fun, someone link it again on MeTa when it drops into the archives so I can continue to revel in its simple delights with minimal clickage, please.
posted by moift at 6:32 AM on December 2, 2004
This thread is a lot of fun, someone link it again on MeTa when it drops into the archives so I can continue to revel in its simple delights with minimal clickage, please.
posted by moift at 6:32 AM on December 2, 2004
Holy shitmittens, Batman!
WHAT THE FUCK, ARSE_HAT? Are you just crawling out of your skin to live up to your nick or what? Take the cookie. Put the cookie in your eating hole. Eat the cookie.
posted by loquacious at 9:12 AM on December 2, 2004
WHAT THE FUCK, ARSE_HAT? Are you just crawling out of your skin to live up to your nick or what? Take the cookie. Put the cookie in your eating hole. Eat the cookie.
posted by loquacious at 9:12 AM on December 2, 2004
If the NYT et al. would want to disable bugmenotted logins, why would they need to delete them from the bugmenot site?
I didn't say they would "need to". They can delete them from their end, but it's far simpler for them to just click "this login doesn't work" on bugmenot (if that deleted the login) than to go into their own admin service, hunt for the login and delete it, no?
posted by dobbs at 10:23 AM on December 2, 2004
I didn't say they would "need to". They can delete them from their end, but it's far simpler for them to just click "this login doesn't work" on bugmenot (if that deleted the login) than to go into their own admin service, hunt for the login and delete it, no?
posted by dobbs at 10:23 AM on December 2, 2004
I think arse_hat is speaking up for kamus since kamus can't speak for himself at present. Both are members of MonkeyFilter - kamus has been a member there since July with no problems - and I have to say it does seem that the only thing kamus did wrong was use the same login at multiple sites. If anyone should be getting flak here, it's the person who took kamus's login details from whatever site (not necessarily Mefi or MoFi, by the sounds of it) and gave them to bugmenot. In my opinion, kamus didn't do it.
So there, my two cents.
posted by tracicle at 11:37 AM on December 2, 2004
So there, my two cents.
posted by tracicle at 11:37 AM on December 2, 2004
for the record: since kamus can't post here pending account re-opening, the story can be found here on monkeyfilter. in which arse_hat apologizes somewhat for the language and kamus tries to gather the shattered remnants of his online dignity and rebuild a once-proud online reputation.
it would be nice, matt, if we could change our passwords... if my account here was compromised i'd be really unhappy if i had no way to fix it. so pretty please?
posted by caution live frogs at 11:57 AM on December 2, 2004
it would be nice, matt, if we could change our passwords... if my account here was compromised i'd be really unhappy if i had no way to fix it. so pretty please?
posted by caution live frogs at 11:57 AM on December 2, 2004
OK, lemme get this straight:
joelf gets a hold of a members password, realises it's applicable in a variety of sites via bugmenot, including Mefi, hasn't explained how he acquired this info, nor has he apologised to the victim - kamus - whose login was appropriated by several other members, and matt
only BANS the victim? Accepts an apology from the offender but no sympathy to kamus?
What is this - BizarroMefi?
posted by dash_slot- at 12:20 PM on December 2, 2004
joelf gets a hold of a members password, realises it's applicable in a variety of sites via bugmenot, including Mefi, hasn't explained how he acquired this info, nor has he apologised to the victim - kamus - whose login was appropriated by several other members, and matt
only BANS the victim? Accepts an apology from the offender but no sympathy to kamus?
What is this - BizarroMefi?
posted by dash_slot- at 12:20 PM on December 2, 2004
hasn't explained how he acquired this info,
I thought he got it from Bugmenot. I thought that was the point of is thread: Look at all the non-newspaper sites that Bugmenot has logins for.
The victim needs to find out how Bugmenot got his info.
posted by dobbs at 12:29 PM on December 2, 2004
I thought he got it from Bugmenot. I thought that was the point of is thread: Look at all the non-newspaper sites that Bugmenot has logins for.
The victim needs to find out how Bugmenot got his info.
posted by dobbs at 12:29 PM on December 2, 2004
If I have it right, dash_slot-, joelf only noticed that kamus' login was available via BugMeNot. He didn't actually submit it to BugMeNot. His offense was posting to MeTa using the compromised login instead of reporting it directly to Matt, for which he has apologized.
I think. Even I'm a little confused at this point.
on preview: what dobbs said.
posted by ruddhist at 12:33 PM on December 2, 2004
I think. Even I'm a little confused at this point.
on preview: what dobbs said.
posted by ruddhist at 12:33 PM on December 2, 2004
Er, posting to MeFi, not MeTa, that is. I am confused.
posted by ruddhist at 12:38 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by ruddhist at 12:38 PM on December 2, 2004
Man, I'm surprised more people haven't been banned since we re-opened accounts. Think of the cash that could bring in. People, already addicted to MeFi, given a forced timeout, would probably pay 10-20 bucks to get back in on the hot, sweaty action.
posted by graventy at 12:40 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by graventy at 12:40 PM on December 2, 2004
Fine, understood. But kamus is a possibly slapdash, certainly victimised member here: he's banned, is he? And joelf, who made a stupid, abusive post, is not?
Reinstate him, asap, I say.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:44 PM on December 2, 2004
Reinstate him, asap, I say.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:44 PM on December 2, 2004
and matt only BANS the victim?
has matt actually "banned" this kamus person or has he simply shut the acct down temporarily, so it can't be further abused...?
the story can be found here on monkeyfilter.
yah, that mofi thread probably doesn't help anyone's perception of what's going on, what with it being a bit inane.
posted by t r a c y at 12:47 PM on December 2, 2004
has matt actually "banned" this kamus person or has he simply shut the acct down temporarily, so it can't be further abused...?
the story can be found here on monkeyfilter.
yah, that mofi thread probably doesn't help anyone's perception of what's going on, what with it being a bit inane.
posted by t r a c y at 12:47 PM on December 2, 2004
The way I understand it is this:
Somebody got ahold of Kamus' username and password and posted it to bugmenot as a MeFi password.
Joelf notices it on bugmenot, tries it here, and it works, so he makes a post about it to give a heads-up to everybody, but, as a joke, uses Kamus' account to do it.
It turns out that Kamus used the same username and password on a number of sites, so anybody in possession of that information could (and did, evidently) mess with a lot of his online info.
Because kamus is new here, nobody really knew if he was a regular user whose account got hacked, or if he was somebody who signed up just to throw the username/password out for anyone who wanted to screw around with MeFi.
arse_hat, though, knew kamus from monkeyfilter, and realized that it couldn't have been that kamus just signed up for a joke account to give the password out, and that kamus was in a really bad position having this info out wild on the web, so he went to a lot of likely spots, tried kamus' name/pass combo, and wherever it worked, he changed the password so others couldn't get in, then sent all that info to kamus.
Nobody here, as far as I can see has really done anything wrong. Matt suspended the account until he could sort things out; arse_hat protected kamus from further danger, but then overreacted a bit here; joelf made the effort to point out what was going on with this account, but also made a joke that wasn't really the best idea.
joelf has apologized, arse_hat has apologized over at MoFi, and there really shouldn't be any hard feelings anywhere as far as I can see. Matt isn't going to punish kamus for this bad incident that happened to him, but he couldn't leave the account open either. He probably just hasn't had the time to deal with it yet.
posted by taz at 12:50 PM on December 2, 2004
Somebody got ahold of Kamus' username and password and posted it to bugmenot as a MeFi password.
Joelf notices it on bugmenot, tries it here, and it works, so he makes a post about it to give a heads-up to everybody, but, as a joke, uses Kamus' account to do it.
It turns out that Kamus used the same username and password on a number of sites, so anybody in possession of that information could (and did, evidently) mess with a lot of his online info.
Because kamus is new here, nobody really knew if he was a regular user whose account got hacked, or if he was somebody who signed up just to throw the username/password out for anyone who wanted to screw around with MeFi.
arse_hat, though, knew kamus from monkeyfilter, and realized that it couldn't have been that kamus just signed up for a joke account to give the password out, and that kamus was in a really bad position having this info out wild on the web, so he went to a lot of likely spots, tried kamus' name/pass combo, and wherever it worked, he changed the password so others couldn't get in, then sent all that info to kamus.
Nobody here, as far as I can see has really done anything wrong. Matt suspended the account until he could sort things out; arse_hat protected kamus from further danger, but then overreacted a bit here; joelf made the effort to point out what was going on with this account, but also made a joke that wasn't really the best idea.
joelf has apologized, arse_hat has apologized over at MoFi, and there really shouldn't be any hard feelings anywhere as far as I can see. Matt isn't going to punish kamus for this bad incident that happened to him, but he couldn't leave the account open either. He probably just hasn't had the time to deal with it yet.
posted by taz at 12:50 PM on December 2, 2004
(I said this over on mofi, too, since kamus is talking in that thread):
This whole thing has been confusing from an observer's perspective. At first, it really looked like someone had gotten an account, made some comments, and then posted bugmenot to the front page as something a bit too clever. I wasn't sure if there was malice behind it; but it should have been obvious to anyone what would happen. So, at first I figured that kamus was kamus, if you get my drift.
Then I went over to monkeyfilter, because of the comment here in the meta thread, to see that someone had posted as kamus there. And, then looking at the mofi history, it looked like kamus was a long(er) term monkey and so it seemed less likely to me that he did this himself. At that point, I figured that somhow his info had gotten on bugmenot and someone maliciously (and, again, too cleverly) then posted to mefi as kamus.
Turns out, according to what kamus and joelf have said, that kamus didn't do it and joelf did it but didn't intend it to be malicious at all. Joelf just found the login on bugmenot. So, no one involved supposedly had any malicious intent.
It's still a mystery as to how kamus's info got on bugmenot.
Finally, given that kamus on mefi is new, and that his info appeared on bugmenot, from Matt's perspective it's probably hard not to be suspicious. I'm only convinced of kamus's complete innocence because of his history on monkeyfilter...something that Matt is probably unaware of. But we do know with certainty, because of jeolf's confession, that it wasn't kamus himself that posted the post. So it's hard to say that kamus has done anything at all wrong, except having his account compromised and appearing on bugmenot. Which, from all appearances, he's a complete victim of. So it doesn't make much sense to ban him from mefi. Joelf was very careless, but seems sincere about it being unintentional.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:52 PM on December 2, 2004
This whole thing has been confusing from an observer's perspective. At first, it really looked like someone had gotten an account, made some comments, and then posted bugmenot to the front page as something a bit too clever. I wasn't sure if there was malice behind it; but it should have been obvious to anyone what would happen. So, at first I figured that kamus was kamus, if you get my drift.
Then I went over to monkeyfilter, because of the comment here in the meta thread, to see that someone had posted as kamus there. And, then looking at the mofi history, it looked like kamus was a long(er) term monkey and so it seemed less likely to me that he did this himself. At that point, I figured that somhow his info had gotten on bugmenot and someone maliciously (and, again, too cleverly) then posted to mefi as kamus.
Turns out, according to what kamus and joelf have said, that kamus didn't do it and joelf did it but didn't intend it to be malicious at all. Joelf just found the login on bugmenot. So, no one involved supposedly had any malicious intent.
It's still a mystery as to how kamus's info got on bugmenot.
Finally, given that kamus on mefi is new, and that his info appeared on bugmenot, from Matt's perspective it's probably hard not to be suspicious. I'm only convinced of kamus's complete innocence because of his history on monkeyfilter...something that Matt is probably unaware of. But we do know with certainty, because of jeolf's confession, that it wasn't kamus himself that posted the post. So it's hard to say that kamus has done anything at all wrong, except having his account compromised and appearing on bugmenot. Which, from all appearances, he's a complete victim of. So it doesn't make much sense to ban him from mefi. Joelf was very careless, but seems sincere about it being unintentional.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:52 PM on December 2, 2004
Also realize that it would be kind of pointless for Matt to change the password here and send the new one to kamus' email, since he has no way of knowing if the email account has been compromised.
posted by taz at 12:53 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by taz at 12:53 PM on December 2, 2004
Oh, what taz said. Much better than me. :)
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:53 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:53 PM on December 2, 2004
Maybe he logged into a site over an unsecured WiFi connection? Like at a coffee house perhaps? Or looking at the MeFi cookies, could it be something contained in the USER_PASS?
There are tons of ways to get a password, especially from sites like MeFi and MoFi that don't use SSL during the login phase.
not that anyone I know ever runs ethereal at coffee houses. never...
posted by sbutler at 1:22 PM on December 2, 2004
There are tons of ways to get a password, especially from sites like MeFi and MoFi that don't use SSL during the login phase.
not that anyone I know ever runs ethereal at coffee houses. never...
posted by sbutler at 1:22 PM on December 2, 2004
So it's a zero-sum? No apology from joelf to kamus would be appropriate for impersonating him/her? Not that no apology under pressure is worth a bean, but clearly we all have different concepts of courtesy.
Oh well.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:39 PM on December 2, 2004
Oh well.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:39 PM on December 2, 2004
No, joelf definitely owes kamus an apology and, really, I'd sorta think that logging into someone else's mefi account without their permission, regardless of how innocent, is by its nature a banning offense. But I can sorta see how joelf (or anyone) might see that login on bugmenot and not stop to consider a) that it may belong to someone that didn't voluntarily put it on bugmenot; and, b) the havoc that could result from posting a login and pwd to the front page of MeFi. Sorta. Kinda. Maybe.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:46 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:46 PM on December 2, 2004
As far as I can tell, joelf isn't refusing to apologize to kamus, and from what I've seen of him upthread, he probably will. At the time he made the other apology, none of us knew that kamus was for real. It looks to me like joelf hasn't been back here since his last post, and much has been learned since then.
posted by taz at 1:59 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by taz at 1:59 PM on December 2, 2004
Although joelf didn't apologise directly to me, it's obvious he realized he made a mistake and that's OK.
- kamus, from the Mofi thread.
That's it then, he's cool about it.
/dismounts
posted by dash_slot- at 2:05 PM on December 2, 2004
- kamus, from the Mofi thread.
That's it then, he's cool about it.
/dismounts
posted by dash_slot- at 2:05 PM on December 2, 2004
I'm much less confused now, and it explains arse_hat's response and a whole bunch of other stuff. I was just playing grabass here in this thread; If I had known all of this I certainly would not have.
I think most of us that were also engaging in assgrabbery here and in the original thread in the blue had no idea that kamus was an existing online persona. I literally thought someone dropped five bucks at some point to make an account and then drop it in bugmenot.
Apologies, kamus. That sucks.
posted by loquacious at 2:42 PM on December 2, 2004
I think most of us that were also engaging in assgrabbery here and in the original thread in the blue had no idea that kamus was an existing online persona. I literally thought someone dropped five bucks at some point to make an account and then drop it in bugmenot.
Apologies, kamus. That sucks.
posted by loquacious at 2:42 PM on December 2, 2004
Hi All,
I read what was linked up on Monkeyfilter, I'm not a member there. Let me explain how this thing had happened.
I found Kamus' MiFi account on Bugmenot, after discovering they had one for Lavalife. I thought that Kamus had put it there himself. Still logged in as him i excitedly put it together what i though was going to be an amusing post.
I assumed that that it was on Bugmenot intentionally, and I hadn't considered that Kamus was a logon that was used all over the place. It wasn't until after the post was done that I realized it.
I'm really sorry about what happened to you Kamus. I didn't think that you were a victim of identity theft. I honestly didn't think that your account was anything more than someone's one-off joke, and I am stupid for doing so. I wish I had investigated it in detail before the excitement of what I thought was going to be a post pointing some of the unusual qualities of bugmenot.
Again I am sorry to the community for starting what could have been a filthy mess, and I am deeply apologetic to you Kamus for pigheadedly posting something without taking the time to evaluate the damage it could potentially cause.
I contacted Bugmenot last night and asked them to reevaluate the sites that are for members. Metafilter is now gone. and I pointed out that there is an account for amazon and thinkgeek. The Lavalife account was deleted as well.
Metafilter is a new toy for me. After gazing through the window at the shop for a year, I finally get one. One week later I fuck it up and do something incredibly stupid.
I bent my wookie.
posted by joelf at 3:01 PM on December 2, 2004
I read what was linked up on Monkeyfilter, I'm not a member there. Let me explain how this thing had happened.
I found Kamus' MiFi account on Bugmenot, after discovering they had one for Lavalife. I thought that Kamus had put it there himself. Still logged in as him i excitedly put it together what i though was going to be an amusing post.
I assumed that that it was on Bugmenot intentionally, and I hadn't considered that Kamus was a logon that was used all over the place. It wasn't until after the post was done that I realized it.
I'm really sorry about what happened to you Kamus. I didn't think that you were a victim of identity theft. I honestly didn't think that your account was anything more than someone's one-off joke, and I am stupid for doing so. I wish I had investigated it in detail before the excitement of what I thought was going to be a post pointing some of the unusual qualities of bugmenot.
Again I am sorry to the community for starting what could have been a filthy mess, and I am deeply apologetic to you Kamus for pigheadedly posting something without taking the time to evaluate the damage it could potentially cause.
I contacted Bugmenot last night and asked them to reevaluate the sites that are for members. Metafilter is now gone. and I pointed out that there is an account for amazon and thinkgeek. The Lavalife account was deleted as well.
Metafilter is a new toy for me. After gazing through the window at the shop for a year, I finally get one. One week later I fuck it up and do something incredibly stupid.
I bent my wookie.
posted by joelf at 3:01 PM on December 2, 2004
Aw, his contriteness is charming. He can live. :)
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:25 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:25 PM on December 2, 2004
contrition...don't hit me, languagehat
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:30 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:30 PM on December 2, 2004
contriteness. Jesus. This is why we can't have nice words.
posted by jonson at 3:48 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by jonson at 3:48 PM on December 2, 2004
I like your apolgeticals, joelf. Have a cookie!
posted by dash_slot- at 3:51 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by dash_slot- at 3:51 PM on December 2, 2004
EB, it's ok. I already loosened his hat. With any luck he'll continue to provide us with his exemplary linguistic services, but hopefully using a softer switch.
Now, to which side does the 'spank joelf' line start? Should we have boys to the right and girls to the left this time, or should we split up into lefty-righty like last time? I think the workflow with lefty-righty is more efficient, but it's fun to mix things up.
Word, joelf. It takes some doing to mea culpa so publicly. Word.
posted by loquacious at 3:52 PM on December 2, 2004
Now, to which side does the 'spank joelf' line start? Should we have boys to the right and girls to the left this time, or should we split up into lefty-righty like last time? I think the workflow with lefty-righty is more efficient, but it's fun to mix things up.
Word, joelf. It takes some doing to mea culpa so publicly. Word.
posted by loquacious at 3:52 PM on December 2, 2004
It seems to me joelf did a good thing by drawing attention to this. He was far more noble than I.
I came across the login in bugmenot, thinking it was amusing to put MeFi in and see what came out. I found the kamus details (et. al), logged in to see if it was valid, and found the account empty. Nothing in the user page. Apparently devoid of use. Assuming it abandoned by someone who joined and found it not to his liking (my logic being why else would the account details be up there?), I used it for approximately six days, making perhaps twenty contributions across nine different threads. The bottom 20 in that list.
Obviously, I owe a cockbucketful of apologies to kamus (in whose name I spoke) and to MeFites to whom I spoke through the guise of kamus. But apologies are not excuses, so I expect some form of disciplinary action should be taken. I wouldn't have done it if I thought I was causing kamus or anyone any real harm; but then again, I did it & harm was caused, so obviously I wasn't thorough enough in my reasoning. I've lurked here long enough to know the potential shennanigans of login/login could happen again - and they did, to some extent.
Feel free to flame via post or e-mail. I've just had some very good news and am currently on a high; might as well begin to come down.
posted by cosmonik at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2004
I came across the login in bugmenot, thinking it was amusing to put MeFi in and see what came out. I found the kamus details (et. al), logged in to see if it was valid, and found the account empty. Nothing in the user page. Apparently devoid of use. Assuming it abandoned by someone who joined and found it not to his liking (my logic being why else would the account details be up there?), I used it for approximately six days, making perhaps twenty contributions across nine different threads. The bottom 20 in that list.
Obviously, I owe a cockbucketful of apologies to kamus (in whose name I spoke) and to MeFites to whom I spoke through the guise of kamus. But apologies are not excuses, so I expect some form of disciplinary action should be taken. I wouldn't have done it if I thought I was causing kamus or anyone any real harm; but then again, I did it & harm was caused, so obviously I wasn't thorough enough in my reasoning. I've lurked here long enough to know the potential shennanigans of login/login could happen again - and they did, to some extent.
Feel free to flame via post or e-mail. I've just had some very good news and am currently on a high; might as well begin to come down.
posted by cosmonik at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2004
i want a cookie. (this is much more comfortable)
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 6:06 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 6:06 PM on December 2, 2004
*Gives weretable a cookie*
The undead chairs get nothing.
posted by euphorb at 9:09 PM on December 2, 2004
The undead chairs get nothing.
posted by euphorb at 9:09 PM on December 2, 2004
I think starving out the undead chairs is a terrible idea. Weretables are a dime a dozen, but how often do you come across undead chairs? Take the La-Z-Boy Recliner, for example. Why so lazy? Why so reclined? Dead, that's why! Armchairs? Think about it - what do arms do? They kill, that's what! Folding chairs? That's got death written all over it. And don't even get me started on Ottomans.
So euphorb, I implore you - support the undead chairs' right to life, and cookies. Won't you please think of the highchairs?
posted by taz at 3:35 AM on December 3, 2004
So euphorb, I implore you - support the undead chairs' right to life, and cookies. Won't you please think of the highchairs?
posted by taz at 3:35 AM on December 3, 2004
SO now that it's been sorted out, can we give the real kamus his account back? MoFi's been getting all his lovin'.
posted by cosmonik at 5:30 PM on December 3, 2004
posted by cosmonik at 5:30 PM on December 3, 2004
Hey- I'm back and now ready to polish my tarnished monicker back into the gleaming perfection it once enjoyed.
Thanks to Matt and all the folks who supported my sorry and unlikely cause!
posted by kamus at 11:11 AM on December 4, 2004
Thanks to Matt and all the folks who supported my sorry and unlikely cause!
posted by kamus at 11:11 AM on December 4, 2004
Good to see ya back, ya unlucky sob.
posted by dash_slot- at 7:24 AM on December 5, 2004
posted by dash_slot- at 7:24 AM on December 5, 2004
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by dobbs at 3:41 PM on December 1, 2004