Is there a point at which someone is contributing too much to MetaFilter? May 2, 2001 9:59 AM Subscribe
The issue of posting too many links has cropped up again (84 links in 100 days, including 9 this week). Is there a point at which someone is contributing too much to MetaFilter, or is it irrelevant as long as they're good?
lots of good links are obviously better than lots of bad links...but avogadro made a good point in that thread. I like postroads links...definately wouldn't want a less capable poster following in his footsteps though, and so perhaps being a good example would be a good idea.
posted by th3ph17 at 10:17 AM on May 2, 2001
posted by th3ph17 at 10:17 AM on May 2, 2001
What is this, a struggle meeting from the Cultural Revolution? If Postroad's topics are good, wait until the bad person to come posts too much and SMACK THEM DOWN MERCILESSLY. Ultimately, it's not my call but I think you guys are being terribly hasty (especially since there are ample precedents for the Merciless Smack-Down for people who have posted far more in a small amount of time).
posted by norm at 12:06 PM on May 2, 2001
posted by norm at 12:06 PM on May 2, 2001
I say anyone -- and I mean anyone; it is not a reflection of quality -- averaging more than three posts a week needs to consider having their own weblog and picking their best link each week to post to the MeFi front.
One a day -- by anyone, let me reiterate -- is selfish and sets a poor example for new members.
posted by luke at 12:10 PM on May 2, 2001
One a day -- by anyone, let me reiterate -- is selfish and sets a poor example for new members.
posted by luke at 12:10 PM on May 2, 2001
hasty would be a merciless smack-down instead of a discussion--i think.
discussing things hopefully leads to an environment where the laying on of smack-down isn't needed.
i think i'm going to use 'smack-down' all day today.
posted by th3ph17 at 12:55 PM on May 2, 2001
discussing things hopefully leads to an environment where the laying on of smack-down isn't needed.
i think i'm going to use 'smack-down' all day today.
posted by th3ph17 at 12:55 PM on May 2, 2001
I've posted a good deal lately, but my average is still pretty low. That said, I think that rcade and Avogadro both have a point: if you have enough material to do a link a day, you should get your own blog...
Blogger is a great tool. Blogspot has great hosting. There're more templates on the way for Blogger... and there's enough talent here at MeFi that, should postroad need it, I'm sure he could find some design/product help with his site. I'd certainly drop by myself. He has interesting viewpoints.
posted by silusGROK at 12:55 PM on May 2, 2001
Blogger is a great tool. Blogspot has great hosting. There're more templates on the way for Blogger... and there's enough talent here at MeFi that, should postroad need it, I'm sure he could find some design/product help with his site. I'd certainly drop by myself. He has interesting viewpoints.
posted by silusGROK at 12:55 PM on May 2, 2001
I was about to email Fred, it has been a bit much lately (not that they weren't quality links, it was just spreading the site a bit thin to add several discussion per day).
If anyone wants to contact him directly, email me and I can send you his email address.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:56 PM on May 2, 2001
If anyone wants to contact him directly, email me and I can send you his email address.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:56 PM on May 2, 2001
No doubt, 4 in one day? Welcome to Postroads Place!
I don't see the quality you are seeing. That's the point. We all have opinions. We can all have blogs.
Bah, he'll burn out. Especially when he finds out that for all this posting he doesn't even get a cookie.
If I could a nice Oatmeal raisin one, I'd post like a fiend. Chocolate chip works too.
Oh and Pecan Sandies are good...
posted by john at 7:57 PM on May 2, 2001
I don't see the quality you are seeing. That's the point. We all have opinions. We can all have blogs.
Bah, he'll burn out. Especially when he finds out that for all this posting he doesn't even get a cookie.
If I could a nice Oatmeal raisin one, I'd post like a fiend. Chocolate chip works too.
Oh and Pecan Sandies are good...
posted by john at 7:57 PM on May 2, 2001
Smack Them Down Mercilessly. Hmmm. I'm with th3p17, norm -- I absolutely love that.
One post a day, or even one post every other day is much too much; there are four thousand + registered members! If just ten people had something like a 1:2 (post to day) ratio, no-one else would ever get a chance to speak. Even three a week is pretty high -- I go weeks without ever posting anything (I don't actively go around looking for links to post on MeFi), but if I feel like I really have to share something with all of you, two a week is the absolute tops. And then I'd be quiet for weeks again to balance things out.
posted by lia at 11:54 PM on May 2, 2001
One post a day, or even one post every other day is much too much; there are four thousand + registered members! If just ten people had something like a 1:2 (post to day) ratio, no-one else would ever get a chance to speak. Even three a week is pretty high -- I go weeks without ever posting anything (I don't actively go around looking for links to post on MeFi), but if I feel like I really have to share something with all of you, two a week is the absolute tops. And then I'd be quiet for weeks again to balance things out.
posted by lia at 11:54 PM on May 2, 2001
I emailed Postroad (after his post today), and offered my feeble assistance to start his own blog.
posted by Avogadro at 6:05 AM on May 3, 2001
posted by Avogadro at 6:05 AM on May 3, 2001
What of excessive comments? What do people think about that? I'm curious.
posted by hijinx at 6:06 AM on May 3, 2001
posted by hijinx at 6:06 AM on May 3, 2001
All right, all right, fine. I just wish this had started with the email instead of the Public Criticism Session. I mean, how many nice people have been run off for making a mistake like that?
posted by norm at 7:27 AM on May 3, 2001
posted by norm at 7:27 AM on May 3, 2001
Unfortunately, Postroad did not provide an e-mail address in his profile. If he had, we wouldn't be seeing this. He posted his address in the thread after the subject had been broached.
posted by Aaaugh! at 7:42 AM on May 3, 2001
posted by Aaaugh! at 7:42 AM on May 3, 2001
Actually, I'm curious like hijinx. Does excessive commenting irk anyone?
I think it hasn't been as much of an issue because the people who don't like comments don't read them. The people who do like comments generally want a response, therefore making multiple comments somewhat more acceptable.
Too many comments with a "message" behind them can bug me, but only when I feel those comments don't contribute to the conversation, and that's a pretty subjective definition, so I don't actually expect anyone to abide by it.
Besides, I certianly wouldn't want to authorize a few hundred messages every day. :-)
The problem with posts as opposed to comments is that posts make it to the front page. It's pretty difficult to avoid them.
posted by cCranium at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2001
I think it hasn't been as much of an issue because the people who don't like comments don't read them. The people who do like comments generally want a response, therefore making multiple comments somewhat more acceptable.
Too many comments with a "message" behind them can bug me, but only when I feel those comments don't contribute to the conversation, and that's a pretty subjective definition, so I don't actually expect anyone to abide by it.
Besides, I certianly wouldn't want to authorize a few hundred messages every day. :-)
The problem with posts as opposed to comments is that posts make it to the front page. It's pretty difficult to avoid them.
posted by cCranium at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2001
I mean, how many nice people have been run off for making a mistake like that?
The purpose of MetaTalk's etiquette forum is to discuss things like this.
Along those lines, I think one link a day is way too many (I'd like to see a software-implemented limit of two or three per week). Also, it would be helpful if everyone who contributes frequently to MetaFilter had an an e-mail address or homepage URL in their public profile.
posted by rcade at 9:56 AM on May 3, 2001
The purpose of MetaTalk's etiquette forum is to discuss things like this.
Along those lines, I think one link a day is way too many (I'd like to see a software-implemented limit of two or three per week). Also, it would be helpful if everyone who contributes frequently to MetaFilter had an an e-mail address or homepage URL in their public profile.
posted by rcade at 9:56 AM on May 3, 2001
I really don't like the sound of this thread, and am glad that in this case the issue wasn't just quietly handled in email. How many times before this was it quietly handled in email? "how many nice people have been run off for making a mistake like that?" How many nice people have been run off by well-intentioned MeFi veterans who email newbies and tell them what they're allegedly doing wrong? I know a MeFiVet means well when they do that, but this is precisely the kinda attitude that causes me to leave MeFi for weeks or months at a time. If it wasn't for the fact the stuff in here is consistently good, I'd leave for good, aware there would neither be a party to celebrate nor a wake to mourn my passing. Does it ever occur to some of you that maybe you're wrong occasionally?
"I think one link a day is way too many.." Just cuz the membership roster into this little club has reached the thousands don't mean y'all start rationing out the post privileges. Complaints of excessive posting and linking? Geez! They're participating! That's a great thing! And you want to curtail it? I actually got an email from a MeFi peer a week or two ago saying that I use too many words. Of course I'm vociferous. TOUGH. I gotta good laugh outta that. Newbies would take it more personally. We don't need a self-appointed MeFi gestapo police force. If a problem develops that the server can't handle, I'm sure Matt's capable of informing the bunch of us.
Encouraging others to start blogs is a good thing. Emailing one another privately and striking up relationships off-web is a good thing too. However, goin' 'round quietly tellin' people how they should or shouldn't post is bad form. Got an opinion? Post it. But don't start makin' "etiquette policies and procedures" as if you're the Martha Stewarts of online communities. If you really wanna do that, go back to Usenet.
Geez. Just when I was starting to enjoy being back, too.
posted by ZachsMind at 4:17 AM on May 4, 2001
"I think one link a day is way too many.." Just cuz the membership roster into this little club has reached the thousands don't mean y'all start rationing out the post privileges. Complaints of excessive posting and linking? Geez! They're participating! That's a great thing! And you want to curtail it? I actually got an email from a MeFi peer a week or two ago saying that I use too many words. Of course I'm vociferous. TOUGH. I gotta good laugh outta that. Newbies would take it more personally. We don't need a self-appointed MeFi gestapo police force. If a problem develops that the server can't handle, I'm sure Matt's capable of informing the bunch of us.
Encouraging others to start blogs is a good thing. Emailing one another privately and striking up relationships off-web is a good thing too. However, goin' 'round quietly tellin' people how they should or shouldn't post is bad form. Got an opinion? Post it. But don't start makin' "etiquette policies and procedures" as if you're the Martha Stewarts of online communities. If you really wanna do that, go back to Usenet.
Geez. Just when I was starting to enjoy being back, too.
posted by ZachsMind at 4:17 AM on May 4, 2001
Whoops, that was a "me too" post...my apologies to the self-appointed MeFi gestapo police force.
posted by dangerman at 6:10 AM on May 4, 2001
posted by dangerman at 6:10 AM on May 4, 2001
But don't start makin' "etiquette policies and procedures" as if you're the Martha Stewarts of online communities. If you really wanna do that, go back to Usenet.
Yeah, I hate it when people use the etiquette forum to discuss etiquette. We should all be free to do anything we want here without regard to each other -- to hell with those damn MetaFilter net cops. That will keep this place from becoming Usenet.
posted by rcade at 7:56 AM on May 4, 2001
Yeah, I hate it when people use the etiquette forum to discuss etiquette. We should all be free to do anything we want here without regard to each other -- to hell with those damn MetaFilter net cops. That will keep this place from becoming Usenet.
posted by rcade at 7:56 AM on May 4, 2001
Just cuz the membership roster into this little club has reached the thousands don't mean y'all start rationing out the post privileges.
How, exactly, is that unreasonable? If one accepts that "a usable (not clotted with an unwieldy amount of posts (for lack of a better way to characterize it)) MetaFilter front page" or just space on the front page, in terms of what is easy to use, is a limited resource, I think the tragedy of the commons is an instructive illustration here. Thus, having a limit on the amount of individual posts (daily, or weekly, or what-have-you), strikes me as a good way to go.
posted by dcehr at 10:16 AM on May 4, 2001
How, exactly, is that unreasonable? If one accepts that "a usable (not clotted with an unwieldy amount of posts (for lack of a better way to characterize it)) MetaFilter front page" or just space on the front page, in terms of what is easy to use, is a limited resource, I think the tragedy of the commons is an instructive illustration here. Thus, having a limit on the amount of individual posts (daily, or weekly, or what-have-you), strikes me as a good way to go.
posted by dcehr at 10:16 AM on May 4, 2001
Zachsmind, at what point would posting begin to detract from your MetaFilter experience? One a day? Five a day? Twenty a day?
If Mark Twain himself rose from the grave and, to make up for lost time, posted 100 links a day to MetaFilter, would this be excessive, or would it be "participating"?
As in all issues of etiquette and policy, the ultimate ruling falls to Matt. Perhaps he can clarify, but I believe in this very thread he has spoken to the matter.
Myself, I don't see a need for a software-enforced quota, though it wouldn't bother me, either. Mostly I'd like to see a clarification in the guidelines.
posted by luke at 11:34 AM on May 4, 2001
If Mark Twain himself rose from the grave and, to make up for lost time, posted 100 links a day to MetaFilter, would this be excessive, or would it be "participating"?
As in all issues of etiquette and policy, the ultimate ruling falls to Matt. Perhaps he can clarify, but I believe in this very thread he has spoken to the matter.
Myself, I don't see a need for a software-enforced quota, though it wouldn't bother me, either. Mostly I'd like to see a clarification in the guidelines.
posted by luke at 11:34 AM on May 4, 2001
I actually got an email from a MeFi peer a week or two ago saying that I use too many words.
Start posting jpegs instead, Zach. That'll really piss 'em off. ;)
posted by aaron at 12:29 PM on May 4, 2001
I'm waiting for the email asking me to post in a more serious manner. Then there is the other email about taking the time to hit the spell check button...
Those of you considering joining the "self-appointed MeFi gestapo police force" should note that the armband is color #006699.
posted by john at 2:17 PM on May 4, 2001
Those of you considering joining the "self-appointed MeFi gestapo police force" should note that the armband is color #006699.
posted by john at 2:17 PM on May 4, 2001
Thanks DangerMan, it feels good to know there's somebody that doesn't constantly assume I'm always off my rocker. I just like going out on a limb. Now fer dah rest uh ya's..
Yeah, I hate it when people use the etiquette forum to discuss etiquette. I hate it when people discuss etiquette. So we're even. I just see threads like this and realize if someone doesn't periodically speak up for the merits of having less rules or limitations instead of more, we'll find ourselves metaphorically typing with our hands tied behind our deskchairs.
How, exactly, is that unreasonable? Coding a limit on everybody is like the teacher punishing all the students in the class cuz one of them hit her with a spitball when her back was turned. Matt's solution was more reasonable than what many of you are demanding.
Entire weeks go by when I see nothing noteworthy to post a link for, then one day might come along where I uncover one, or five, or ten or more. I don't usually actively seek out stuff specifically for MeFi, but if I run into a lotta cool stuff that looks like it'd be welcomed here, it's a detriment to MeFi if I can't put'em up there. Same goes for everybody. I like seeing links and posts and comments even when I disagree with them. I don't personally want to see anyone's voice restricted for any reason, and will speak out against such restrictions whenever I feel it warranted.
Now the individual in question whose actions started this particular thread, I will relent there and say he was maybe going a bit over the top. What annoyed me personally about the guy was his use of NYT links, but I'm annoyed by NYT in general. It wasn't something personal about him.
However I don't think Matt needs to code in a blanket restriction on everybody just cuz occasionally some extremist comes along with a little overkill. If he wants to it's his decision, but I'm just happy to have had my chance to argue against it before it happens. It's Matt's sandbox. If he personally feels it necessary to email the guy and set him straight, it's his prerogative. He can also opt to revoke an individual's privileges altogether if he wants. He doesn't have to punish everybody just because an occasional zealot takes advantage of the forum.
Zachsmind, at what point would posting begin to detract from your MetaFilter experience? One a day? Five a day? Twenty a day? The fact I was aware of such restrictions at all would detract from my experience. I find such restrictions unreasonable and against the grain of open discourse.
If Mark Twain himself rose from the grave and, to make up for lost time, posted 100 links a day to MetaFilter, would this be excessive, or would it be "participating"? I for one would welcome any wisdom from that great writer's soul. I believe even if a living celebrity wanted to come into MeFi and instigate discourse on many found links, so long as the links were cool and the topics were fresh, you'd hear no argument from me.
Perhaps instead of coding, veterans need to find better ways to educate newbies. Instead of saying what you can't do, go more into detail how best to work with MeFi. Personally when I do make a link thread in MeFi, it's cuz I sincerely want to talk about that issue, and I try to return back to that thread periodically. I started it, I wanna participate in the discourse.
Now I don't know personally, but did this newbie who posted all those links actually haunt them all, or was he just posting and hopping on to the next post? Did he respond regularly in ALL the forums he created? Odds are he didn't, so when someone creates excessive linkthreads, they're actually either 1) NOT communicating and sharing in the discourse of MeFi but just talking AT people, or 2) creating more work for themselves if they are participating. I can't regularly monitor more than a few linkthreads at a time with any success or frequency, especially since I simultaneously have a half dozen other windows up at any given time multi-tasking on other projects and personal pleasures. I don't know if I'd call this etiquette so much as learning how best to work with MeFi.
Mostly I'd like to see a clarification in the guidelines. The posting guidelines are long enough. Actually I preferred it before. It appears Matt just keeps adding on to it. It used to be a lot simpler than this. I'd hate to see it start turning into lawyerese, or look like the directions found in a Monopoly gamebox.
Start posting jpegs instead, Zach. That'll really piss 'em off. ;) Thanks for the suggestion, but I think my TXT ticks people off enough already. If I switched to JPG I'd probably REALLY get chased outta MeFiVille. =)
posted by ZachsMind at 12:04 AM on May 5, 2001
Yeah, I hate it when people use the etiquette forum to discuss etiquette. I hate it when people discuss etiquette. So we're even. I just see threads like this and realize if someone doesn't periodically speak up for the merits of having less rules or limitations instead of more, we'll find ourselves metaphorically typing with our hands tied behind our deskchairs.
How, exactly, is that unreasonable? Coding a limit on everybody is like the teacher punishing all the students in the class cuz one of them hit her with a spitball when her back was turned. Matt's solution was more reasonable than what many of you are demanding.
Entire weeks go by when I see nothing noteworthy to post a link for, then one day might come along where I uncover one, or five, or ten or more. I don't usually actively seek out stuff specifically for MeFi, but if I run into a lotta cool stuff that looks like it'd be welcomed here, it's a detriment to MeFi if I can't put'em up there. Same goes for everybody. I like seeing links and posts and comments even when I disagree with them. I don't personally want to see anyone's voice restricted for any reason, and will speak out against such restrictions whenever I feel it warranted.
Now the individual in question whose actions started this particular thread, I will relent there and say he was maybe going a bit over the top. What annoyed me personally about the guy was his use of NYT links, but I'm annoyed by NYT in general. It wasn't something personal about him.
However I don't think Matt needs to code in a blanket restriction on everybody just cuz occasionally some extremist comes along with a little overkill. If he wants to it's his decision, but I'm just happy to have had my chance to argue against it before it happens. It's Matt's sandbox. If he personally feels it necessary to email the guy and set him straight, it's his prerogative. He can also opt to revoke an individual's privileges altogether if he wants. He doesn't have to punish everybody just because an occasional zealot takes advantage of the forum.
Zachsmind, at what point would posting begin to detract from your MetaFilter experience? One a day? Five a day? Twenty a day? The fact I was aware of such restrictions at all would detract from my experience. I find such restrictions unreasonable and against the grain of open discourse.
If Mark Twain himself rose from the grave and, to make up for lost time, posted 100 links a day to MetaFilter, would this be excessive, or would it be "participating"? I for one would welcome any wisdom from that great writer's soul. I believe even if a living celebrity wanted to come into MeFi and instigate discourse on many found links, so long as the links were cool and the topics were fresh, you'd hear no argument from me.
Perhaps instead of coding, veterans need to find better ways to educate newbies. Instead of saying what you can't do, go more into detail how best to work with MeFi. Personally when I do make a link thread in MeFi, it's cuz I sincerely want to talk about that issue, and I try to return back to that thread periodically. I started it, I wanna participate in the discourse.
Now I don't know personally, but did this newbie who posted all those links actually haunt them all, or was he just posting and hopping on to the next post? Did he respond regularly in ALL the forums he created? Odds are he didn't, so when someone creates excessive linkthreads, they're actually either 1) NOT communicating and sharing in the discourse of MeFi but just talking AT people, or 2) creating more work for themselves if they are participating. I can't regularly monitor more than a few linkthreads at a time with any success or frequency, especially since I simultaneously have a half dozen other windows up at any given time multi-tasking on other projects and personal pleasures. I don't know if I'd call this etiquette so much as learning how best to work with MeFi.
Mostly I'd like to see a clarification in the guidelines. The posting guidelines are long enough. Actually I preferred it before. It appears Matt just keeps adding on to it. It used to be a lot simpler than this. I'd hate to see it start turning into lawyerese, or look like the directions found in a Monopoly gamebox.
Start posting jpegs instead, Zach. That'll really piss 'em off. ;) Thanks for the suggestion, but I think my TXT ticks people off enough already. If I switched to JPG I'd probably REALLY get chased outta MeFiVille. =)
posted by ZachsMind at 12:04 AM on May 5, 2001
Matt's solution was more reasonable than what many of you are demanding.
Where are you seeing demands in this thread?
posted by rcade at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2001
Where are you seeing demands in this thread?
posted by rcade at 5:59 AM on May 5, 2001
update of this same topic:
this past week as well, there are a group of 10 people that are posting most of the stuff. i don't care how good it is, it's annoying because i don't have time to read all of it nor do i get to see different people posting. seeing the same people all the time makes it seem like Their community and Their weblog. i think people should limit themselves no matter how great they are. that way, they can still get all the respect they deserve and the posting quality will be even higher.
zach: the question was how personally do you feel? at what point does someone's posting get out of hand? an imposed limit at mefi wasn't on the table.
posted by benjamin at 11:26 AM on May 7, 2001
this past week as well, there are a group of 10 people that are posting most of the stuff. i don't care how good it is, it's annoying because i don't have time to read all of it nor do i get to see different people posting. seeing the same people all the time makes it seem like Their community and Their weblog. i think people should limit themselves no matter how great they are. that way, they can still get all the respect they deserve and the posting quality will be even higher.
zach: the question was how personally do you feel? at what point does someone's posting get out of hand? an imposed limit at mefi wasn't on the table.
posted by benjamin at 11:26 AM on May 7, 2001
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As to whether there is a point where someone is contributing too much, obviously I think that there is: namely when someone uses MetaFilter as their own personal weblog (which occurs when you post that frequently).
Again, I think that Postroad has some good stuff (albeit nearly all of the links come from Yahoo newswire or NY Times), but why drown out other voices in the process?
posted by Avogadro at 10:11 AM on May 2, 2001