# It's hard to tell in text if a threat is serious, so don't do it. August 23, 2005 6:17 PM   Subscribe

I flagged it.
posted by loquax at 6:18 PM on August 23, 2005 [1 favorite]

you troll; you get threats. For all the insults and trash Paris throws around continually, he shouldn't expect anything better. In fact, i'm sure he desires responses like that.
posted by amberglow at 6:22 PM on August 23, 2005

There is such a thing as the high road. It probably doesn't involve contract beatings.
posted by loquax at 6:24 PM on August 23, 2005

Yeah and for $500 bucks? What a cheap skate. Just say'n. C'mon. You were all thinking it. posted by tkchrist at 6:24 PM on August 23, 2005 Wait - to whom do I have to pay the$500 to whack Paris, again?
posted by yhbc at 6:29 PM on August 23, 2005

There are many people here who I wish would simply disappear. I'm sure we all have a list; some short, others a little longer. But for the sake of civility, I would think that keeping (idle) threats to ourselves would be appropriate.

But, but...like the threat made against George W just a few days ago, I think this comment should be allowed to stay, if only to have ample evidence that the original poster is, in fact, a rude lunatic.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 6:30 PM on August 23, 2005

Could i just take the money and say i beat the crap out of him?

(and yes, the post is way out of line, IMO). I'm suprised it hasn't been deleted.
posted by delmoi at 6:30 PM on August 23, 2005

I think this comment should be allowed to stay,

I agreed with you about the Bush comment, but this is something targeted at another user. Needless to say, people should be free to express their views without fearing for their lives. Not that I believe fff was actually serious (I think), but it crosses the line to target other users.
posted by loquax at 6:35 PM on August 23, 2005

I think the point was that it crosses the line to target other people.
posted by cytherea at 6:36 PM on August 23, 2005

No need to punish anybody. I think the entire post created like an irony sigularity which collapsed and sucked both Paris and FFF down into a sub-reality with it.
posted by tkchrist at 6:37 PM on August 23, 2005

people should be free to express their views without fearing for their lives

If I had a dime for every time some guy on USENET threatened to kill me I'd
posted by tkchrist at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2005

I agree, he's a cheapskate -- 500 bucks? wtf?
posted by matteo at 6:39 PM on August 23, 2005

Where are the ban-lovers now? Holy cow; if ever it was called for...
posted by found missing at 6:40 PM on August 23, 2005

and I also wonder, is PayPal OK?
posted by matteo at 6:43 PM on August 23, 2005

The ironic part is that just a little while ago fff was yelling at anybody who responded to Paris for being big bait-taking dummies.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:45 PM on August 23, 2005

See what I did. I made a joke about being killed and... aw... nobody cares... nevermind.

What the hell am I on today? Forgive me.

Ok. Seriously. I think FFF was way over the top. But it's kind of pussy thing to actually announce you'd pay somebody ELSE to beat up a guy. Generally that pretty much excludes it from ever happening. Never the less. It was really fucked up.

But to ban the guy? Can't we just make him apologize and kiss and make up or something?
posted by tkchrist at 6:47 PM on August 23, 2005

I think a comment like that merits banning.
posted by eustacescrubb at 6:47 PM on August 23, 2005

Not a banning, no way, but um, heated comments like that have warranted a cooling off period in the past.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:48 PM on August 23, 2005

Banning, not! Time out? That is Matt's call (ignore my rash comment in the blue). This sort of thing is a little out of character for FFF. It still isn't right and an apology is probably due.
posted by caddis at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2005

Ok. Ban it is. That seems just and fair.

Question. Does this "banning" hurt and can somebody video tape it for me.

What?
posted by tkchrist at 6:52 PM on August 23, 2005

It is also ever so much a shame that one can not be sure of getting away with offering $500 to see a specific user banned. posted by matteo at 6:56 PM on August 23, 2005 Ok. Give me$500 and you'll never hear from me again. I promise.
posted by tkchrist at 6:58 PM on August 23, 2005

Hmmm. I thought this was a liberal place. Is this a small version of a WMD hunt?
posted by buzzman at 6:58 PM on August 23, 2005

FFF is making an ironic statement about the idea that it's okay for Pat Robertson to call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez. It doesn't deserve banning, and I'm sure that he doesn't mean it.

He's just making a statement--hamfisted as it is--about the nature of people calling for the harm of other people.
posted by interrobang at 7:00 PM on August 23, 2005 [1 favorite]

"FFF is making an ironic statement about the idea that it's okay for Pat Robertson to call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez. It doesn't deserve banning, and I'm sure that he doesn't mean it."

No, in his petty little paranoid world, he was referring to ME.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2005

There is also the political fall out of banning the Prime Minister of Canada. Which I'm pretty sure is FFF. He does speak for Canada.
posted by tkchrist at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2005

The first statement - probably just what you describe.
The second statement - oh so wrong.
posted by caddis at 7:04 PM on August 23, 2005

FFF is the Sirhan Sirhan of Metafilter....
posted by ParisParamus at 7:06 PM on August 23, 2005

Is there a way of reading which of one's comments have been flagged? I've never figured that out.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:07 PM on August 23, 2005

He's just making a statement--hamfisted as it is--about the nature of people calling for the harm of other people.

If so, it was poorly-crafted, and an apology to PP is in order.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:08 PM on August 23, 2005

No, in his petty little paranoid world, he was referring to ME.

We're always referring to you. Don't let them know I told you.
posted by cytherea at 7:09 PM on August 23, 2005

FFF is the Sirhan Sirhan of Metafilter..

so it's Sirhan vs Yigal Amir then?
posted by matteo at 7:12 PM on August 23, 2005

Is there a way of reading which of one's comments have been flagged? I've never figured that out.

All of 'em, PP. Trust me. I follow you around flagging every single comment you make. FFF paid me $500 to do it. I do find it amusing that people who thought it was ok to implore someone to murder the pre$ident a few days ago consider the offense graver when someone posts an obviously rhetorical "threat" against a . . . fellow MeFite. Consistency is for small minds.

And it was Shaw and not Churchill, whatever thread that was in.
posted by realcountrymusic at 7:13 PM on August 23, 2005

I agree, he should just put the $500 in his pocket, and kick Paris's ass himself. This ain't no union! posted by Balisong at 7:14 PM on August 23, 2005 Starring in The Bell Tolls for Whom is Referred. posted by cytherea at 7:15 PM on August 23, 2005 Robertson calls for a political assassination. Paris says that he'd be okay with it: Not the best of ideas, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if it happened. posted by ParisParamus at 11:00 PM CST on August 22 [!] Five fresh fish was parodying Paris's approbation of political killings. Distasteful and crude, but I'm still sure that he didn't mean it. posted by interrobang at 7:16 PM on August 23, 2005 Is there a way of reading which of one's comments have been flagged? I've never figured that out. No, there isn't. The flag queue is internal and unless we check, even we don't know whose comments have been flagged until we click through and read them. posted by jessamyn at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2005 Matteo, saying I wouldn't shed a tear of certain people were off'd doesn't make me an assasin. posted by ParisParamus at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2005 Your inability to spell "assassin" makes me shed a little tear, Paris. posted by interrobang at 7:20 PM on August 23, 2005 No, but condoning assassination (or torture, or other bad stuff), makes others less willing to give a shit if it happens to you. posted by Balisong at 7:20 PM on August 23, 2005 interrobang : "FFF is making an ironic statement about the idea that it's okay for Pat Robertson to call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez." ParisParamus : "No, in his petty little paranoid world, he was referring to ME." I'm unaware of whether FFF's world view is petty or paranoid, but your use of the word "no" is incorrect. FFF is making an ironic statement about the idea that it's okay for Pat Robertson to call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez. You are one of the people with that idea. Hence, the ironic statement is directed at you. So both you and interrobang are in agreement. ParisParamus : "Matteo, saying I wouldn't shed a tear of certain people were off'd doesn't make me an assasin." Saying you wish you could pay people to beat up other people, but you can't, so you won't, doesn't make one an assassin either. I think we can safely conclude that neither PP or FFF is an assassin. Still, I think it was way out of line. There had to have been a better way of making the point than that. posted by Bugbread at 7:24 PM on August 23, 2005 violence begets violence - threats beget threats.... lets paris and robertson rot in their cesspools of hate. posted by specialk420 at 7:28 PM on August 23, 2005 I seem to recall someone (angry modem?) calling for people to punch members at a meetup (specifically Wendell) in the face. No banning took place or cooling off. In fact, I don't think Matt even bothered to weigh in on that one. posted by dobbs at 7:30 PM on August 23, 2005 Probation at the least. Even I mange not to threaten people when I post, and I act like a total jackass half the time. Though, if threatening people is determined to be kosher, I might as well let it all hang out. posted by Snyder at 7:32 PM on August 23, 2005 this is just lame get over it, FFF posted by scarabic at 7:33 PM on August 23, 2005 of course, what dobbs said. and at least we have a tagline: MetaFilter: There had to have been a better way of making the point than that. posted by matteo at 7:34 PM on August 23, 2005 dobbs...I seem to recall it too, vaugely...hmm, maybe probation is a little too harsh then. I mean, if it's no big deal, then it's no big deal, neh? It depends on how that whole thing was resovled, don't it? posted by Snyder at 7:35 PM on August 23, 2005 I seem to recall someone (angry modem?) calling for people to punch members at a meetup (specifically Wendell) in the face. Wendell? Are you kidding me? Whatever for? Wendell is just sort of mellow and witty. Why would anyone get mad at Wendell? posted by caddis at 7:37 PM on August 23, 2005 FFF is very angry. It's hard to imagine being that angry in Canada; it's so nice up there... posted by ParisParamus at 7:38 PM on August 23, 2005 Probably the name, the accent, and the public school uniform. posted by cytherea at 7:39 PM on August 23, 2005 Not the best of ideas, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if it happened. posted by ParisParamus at 11:00 PM CST on August 22 [!] Five fresh fish was parodying Paris's approbation of political killings. Distasteful and crude, but I'm still sure that he didn't mean it. posted by interrobang at 7:16 PM PST on August 23 [!] Really, how over-blown can this be? Obvious parody mixed with mild intimidation and sarcasm doesn't a true threat make. This is just a misunderstanding. Move along kids, the fight is over. posted by snsranch at 7:40 PM on August 23, 2005 OK, If Paris wears the LGF shirt to the fight, I'll do it for free. posted by Balisong at 7:42 PM on August 23, 2005 Are you kidding me? No. posted by dobbs at 7:42 PM on August 23, 2005 christ almighty. posted by adampsyche at 7:56 PM on August 23, 2005 OK, If Paris wears the LGF shirt to the fight, I'll do it for free. posted by Balisong at 7:42 PM PST on August 23 [!] And use your butterfly knife thing too!!! Whoo hoo! (pulling leg or something) posted by snsranch at 8:03 PM on August 23, 2005 ...FFF. He does speak for Canada. The hell he does. posted by timeistight at 8:05 PM on August 23, 2005 FFF is obsessed. posted by dhoyt at 8:14 PM on August 23, 2005 You said that irony was the shackles of youth, uh-huh. See, that was an ironic REM reference. And that was sarcasm in the guise of an earnest description of the lyrical reference. And that was a further ironic statement parodying the notion that earnestness can ever possibly be achieved in contemporary society. Since everyone is claiming irony, is it possible that Pat Robertson was being ironic, too? In fact, I'm going to go ahead and suggest that The 700 Club is really a grand performance art / media installation project of the MIT Media Lab. Ubiquitous misuse of "irony" makes the baby Sophocles cry. posted by gramschmidt at 8:17 PM on August 23, 2005 Metafilter: A further ironic statement parodying the notion that earnestness can ever possibly be achieved in contemporary society. Do not ban him. A warning, possibly a timeout, is all that is called for. posted by voltairemodern at 8:28 PM on August 23, 2005 you troll; you get threats. For all the insults and trash Paris throws around continually, he shouldn't expect anything better. How did I know amberglow would sidestep condemning any threat directed at Paris, no matter how abhorrent? Amber, you'd be whinnying about Hate Crimes if the situation were reversed. Or blaming the soldiers for tossing candy to children. You also perceived you and JGreyNemo were on "the same Side" recently and nobly defended that threat ("he's not advocating assassination") in the weaseliest fashion as well. I guess Paris being on the Wrong Side earns him threats of violence without reprisal. posted by dhoyt at 8:43 PM on August 23, 2005 I guess Paris being on the Wrong Side earns him threats of violence without reprisal. Paris is not being threatened, his worldview is being parodied. Amberglow has nothing to do with this. posted by interrobang at 8:48 PM on August 23, 2005 Matteo, if I had$500 to pay someone to keep other mefites from making the tagline jokes that I want to make. You post would be smoked. Because if I could, I would -- and I am dead bloody serious about this -- offer that much to be the only guy who makes metafilter tagline jokes.

Wow, this was meta of me.

OMG, I just made it even more meta.

(Oh, and I don't think it's ban-able; we need some extremists on both sides for this stuff to have even a chance of being entertaining.)
posted by oddman at 8:49 PM on August 23, 2005

Now, now, people. Don't whack your PeePee and make a mess all over Mefi.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 9:24 PM on August 23, 2005

Heh. I love watching MeFites make physical threats. As if there's a single can of genuine whoop-ass in this House of Geek. We're such a bunch of sissies we have to fantasize about being able to pay someone to beat each other up.
posted by scarabic at 9:31 PM on August 23, 2005

There are a lot of people here, myself included, who have at various points deserved a solid fist (and in a few cases brick) to the face for things they've posted.

And admit it - we've all fantasized about tracking down that one special fucker, garroting him while watching his smug fucking face turn purple as he tries to gasp out one last troll and then dumping his body in a tub of lye. Admit it - you've thought about, maybe you were even unable to surpress a little grin at the thought, and then you felt ashamed. Or not.
posted by Ryvar at 9:32 PM on August 23, 2005

First of all: I disagree with five_fresh_fish as often and dislike him as much as I do ParisParamus. However, I don't think fishy's blurt merits banning either: he did not actually offer any bucks to bash PP, he did not threaten to do him any harm himself, and anyway I thought wishing harm to Paris was required for membership in the Metaheathers. So I've defended Mr. Paramus' right to Free (albeit senseless) Speech in the past, and now I must extend that defense to his enemy.

Furthermore I doubt Paris feels threatened by it -- at least I hope he's not that wussy.

(Oh poor Metafilter. It'd be awful quiet around here if people only said wise things.)

And on Preview, scarabic finally made me laugh. I didn't know he had it in him.

And Ryvar, speak for yourself while you're fucking yourself. With a chainsaw, as roughly as you please.
posted by davy at 9:36 PM on August 23, 2005

This witch-hunt banning thing on every other metatalk thread, did I need to read Lord of the Flies to understand it?
posted by hackly_fracture at 9:40 PM on August 23, 2005

How can I tell if that was intentionally ironic?
posted by Ryvar at 9:41 PM on August 23, 2005

He's got a timeout. In the shame corner.

PUT ON YOUR SHAME HAT AND STEW MR. FISH!
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:41 PM on August 23, 2005

m-m-m-m fish stew
posted by Cranberry at 9:49 PM on August 23, 2005

Why are you people so fucking literal? ParisParamus WAS OKAY WITH THE IDEA THAT OUR COUNTRY SHOULD ENGAGE IN POLITICAL KILLINGS. FFF made fun of him. Why is FFF being given a time out?
posted by interrobang at 9:51 PM on August 23, 2005

Ban interrobang! Ban him!
posted by hackly_fracture at 9:55 PM on August 23, 2005

I'm in for $20. posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:56 PM on August 23, 2005 If five fresh fish is going to be given a time out over this, then fucking give me one, too. This is ridiculous. posted by interrobang at 9:59 PM on August 23, 2005 PS interrobang, whom I love like a sibling, it can't be literal: FFF NEVER MENTIONED WHICH USER! Everyone used their amazing powers of deduction, and meanwhile postroad just took the$500 and kneecapped dejah420!
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:03 PM on August 23, 2005

Why is FFF being given a time out?

It's a pretty bullshit move. You can post anything you want here as long as you're "conservative" for some reason. Hell, dios makes fun of retarded kids, but that's okay, I guess. That furiousxgeorge guy advocated nuking Mecca and killing millions of innocent people, but that's okay, too.

But no satire! NO FUCKING SATIRE ON THIS WEBSITE YOU GOT IT MISTER!? I WILL NOT HAVE YOU TALKING ABOUT EATING IRISH BABIES!
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:03 PM on August 23, 2005

PP flapped his gums about politics. FFF levelled as much as a threat. I'm about the last person to defend PunyPenis but come on now.
posted by scarabic at 10:03 PM on August 23, 2005

(goes back and reads again, sheepishly retracts all-caps text)
posted by hackly_fracture at 10:11 PM on August 23, 2005

I wish we could just all agree on ignoring PP and its cohort for a while -- they would just go away. Can we agree on this please?
posted by NewBornHippy at 10:13 PM on August 23, 2005

It's a pretty bullshit move. You can post anything you want here as long as you're "conservative" for some reason

It's a pretty bullshit move. You can post anything you want here as long as you're "ironic" for some reason.

Stupid joke or not, I can't get behind people threatening other users on the site.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:15 PM on August 23, 2005

He probably meant to say stand behind or get behind. And now it is time for all to go outside and have a nice walk in the cool evening air.
We are Matt's guests, he makes the rules.
posted by Cranberry at 10:19 PM on August 23, 2005

ooh he fixed it
posted by Cranberry at 10:20 PM on August 23, 2005

God damn it, matt, he wasn't threatening Paris! He was saying something that obliquely sounded like a threat, and was about Paris's tone about the "okayness" of killing people! The statement was a metaphor, not a threat.
posted by interrobang at 10:20 PM on August 23, 2005

I hereby offer Pat Robertson 500 fresh fish to give ParisParasmus a good rogering.
posted by louigi at 10:21 PM on August 23, 2005

I do find it amusing that people who thought it was ok to implore someone to murder the pre$ident a few days ago consider the offense graver when someone posts an obviously rhetorical "threat" against a . . . fellow MeFite. Consistency is for small minds. posted by realcountrymusic I find it amusing that you wrote a book in the president thread but basically have nothing to say here. Consistency, huh? You can look at the thread in question and know from the start the nuts are going to come out. There's been violence threatened before and defended because they were making a brilliant observation on the world around us, or they simply didn't mean it. Whatever, as long as that view extends to everyone on metafilter. If five fresh fish is going to be given a time out over this, then fucking give me one, too. This is ridiculous. posted by interrobang Just turn off your computer. Time out granted. posted by justgary at 10:25 PM on August 23, 2005 *Timed out for a week. Fuck this place.* posted by interrobang at 10:30 PM on August 23, 2005 I don't want Paris and crew (dios, Steve@, other newcomers) to leave. There's nothing wrong with having a conservative viewpoint on the site to counter the liberal bias here. What I do want is for Paris and crew to get a clue, because overwhelmingly their arguments rely on misinformation that does not withstand inspection, or is disingenuous from the outset. All of this is assuming that they're making solid, declarative fact-based statements, which is a rather rare occurrence. It has been my experience that the significantly right-wing members of Metafilter spend the bulk of their time casting out blanket assertions based largely on preconceptions. And who can blame them? Given the lynch mob attitude we display - and that goes double for you, Mr. Man-in-the-mirror - what possible motivation could they have for sitting down and having a frank discussion? They're outnumbered a hundred to one and since not many people can make posting to MeFi a fulltime job, there's little point in starting such an exchange only to have to stop and appear 'weak.' As usual for online social problems, penis-size issues on both sides (and in both sexes) are the root cause here. posted by Ryvar at 10:32 PM on August 23, 2005 List of people who it's not okay to advocate assassinating: • George W. Bush • Metafilter Members List of people who it is okay to advocate assassinating: Am I missing anyone or do I have anyone misclassified? Just want to be clear on the Rules. posted by louigi at 10:37 PM on August 23, 2005 Ya know, it's wierd. As soon as I log onto LGF, all I can think of is the most inflamitory leftist drivel. Maybe they have some sort of political allergy. They want to contribute, and they think they are, but it all comes out with so many layers of sarcasm and bias, in a desperate attempt to reach just one viewer, that it turns into a brown stain on the wall. Don't worry, Paris, I've been there, too! posted by Balisong at 10:38 PM on August 23, 2005 I'm having a hard time understanding why any comment with "and I am dead bloody serious about this" should be given the benefit of the doubt as satire. mathowie: I can't get behind people threatening other users on the site. Sounds about right. Drawing a clear line at *any* threats from one user to another, named or not, seems to me a perfectly valid thing to do, even if I'm more used to the "just let the jerks embarrass themselves" approach. But if fff's comment is a punishable offense, I'm now wondering more than ever if amberglow shouldn't have gotten a timeout for his now-infamous comment that ParisParamus would "seriously regret it" if amberglow ever saw him at a meetup. I know this has been brought up repeatedly, but despite suggestions in those later threads, I don't recall amberglow ever quite clarifying what he meant by that comment. Did he actually plan on hitting a fellow member, or just getting up in his face at a meetup and screaming personal insults at him? If the latter, would that be an acceptable, non-timeout-able threat? I mean, as long as we're policing threatening outbursts, amberglow's furious (tho not specifically physical) threat was just as horridly shocking a precedent for the site as fff's furious (tho not specifically targetted) version. I'd be curious to hear from an admin what they thought the difference might be, if any. Seems an important guideline to be clear on. posted by mediareport at 10:55 PM on August 23, 2005 Oh, please. You can try to diffuse death threats against members, but there's nothing that says one member might go off and punch another. No matter how many time outs, or banination. There used to even be a time when it wasn't forbidden to be rude to somebody. I could run a vaccum cleaner salesman, or a Jehovah's Witness off my property with a shotgun. Alas, those days are behind us. posted by Balisong at 11:05 PM on August 23, 2005 mediareport: Obviously, I speak only for myself, but I think amberglow's comment, was, unfortunatly, just on this side of vaugeness to have plausible deniability. Even FFF tried the same tack with his comment, it was just a little more obvious. I think it's a bit hard to have a bright-line measure of such things, I mean, is "Amberglow, I hope you die horribly," a threat or just being super-boorish? Around here, it can be hard to tell. But I see your point, I just think there is already a large degree of jackassery (he said looking at himself,) that makes amberglow's quasi-threat kind of blend in. posted by Snyder at 11:06 PM on August 23, 2005 If I thought it would would work I'd pay 500 quatloos to somebody to help me kill myself so I can come back as a big scary puffball ghost and liberate the entire planet Earth. But with my luck those Bill Murray movies will turn out to be NON-fiction. I still don't think fishy was threatening anybody, nor have I seen PP say he's afraid or that he felt it was a threat. (And I wasn't threatening to kill myself or hire a kevorkian either; for one thing there's no such currency as a "quatloo".) By the way, there are few real liberals here unless Senator McCarthy was one. posted by davy at 11:06 PM on August 23, 2005 did you know that 500 bucks is over a million bolivars? posted by pyramid termite at 11:07 PM on August 23, 2005 You can try to diffuse death threats against members, but there's nothing that says one member might go off and punch another. Er, that's true, but it's not what we're talking about, Balisong. Mefi guidelines apply to Mefi, not real life. The tone of the site is a reasonable thing for the site guidelines to attempt to define. posted by mediareport at 11:09 PM on August 23, 2005 I think the next MeFi meetup is going to get interesting! posted by blue_beetle at 11:12 PM on August 23, 2005 Really, Please.. Five Fresh Fish is a Canadian of the Lefty persuasion. I have agreed with him on many points. I am probably more inclined to go on a shooting / slashing up my neighbors spree than he is. I knew he wasn't serious. Usually you back up claims like that with viceral, spitefull, heated, negative language. And lots of it! I wouldn't take FFF up on his scam any more than I would buy into a Nigerian scammer. posted by Balisong at 11:14 PM on August 23, 2005 I knew he wasn't serious. Bully for you. And I knew the comment crossed a line as soon as I saw it. Now, let's get back to the point, which is the effect on the long-term health of the site if intra-member threats become an acceptable part of the culture. I say it'd be bad. *Really* bad. And you say? posted by mediareport at 11:18 PM on August 23, 2005 Forget the long-term effects, the precedent, whatever. It's a stain and it should be wiped. When someone shits on your doorstep you don't worry about the precedent it's going to set for the neighborhood kids. You hose the fucking shit off your steps. Anybody who doesn't understand that threats of violence mark the point where it's no longer worth even having a website wherein to discuss and discourse... whoever that is has a big ass-kicking coming right up from me. posted by scarabic at 11:26 PM on August 23, 2005 Did he actually plan on hitting a fellow member, or just getting up in his face at a meetup and screaming personal insults at him? I'm pretty sure he was going to "discuss" him to death. Just a hunch. posted by justgary at 11:33 PM on August 23, 2005 I just wanted to point out, it's a bit silly to respond so negatively towards ParisParamus. I'm pretty sure he enjoys it, greatly: Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV-TR). posted by gsb at 11:36 PM on August 23, 2005 Any hitman you hire for$500 is gunna roll on you if he catches heat. I suggest paying full-fare, or doing it yourself.
posted by mosch at 12:21 AM on August 24, 2005

I don't want Paris and crew (dios, Steve@, other newcomers) to leave. There's nothing wrong with having a conservative viewpoint on the site to counter the liberal bias here.

The problem is not his conservative viewpoint.

ParisParamus's issue is that his political posts are generally designed to spark ire, not discussion. They routinely contain putdowns directed both at individuals and at large groups that he disagrees with politically.

Steve's issue is that he does not even make an attempt to participate in a political discussion. He just shits on the thread's topic and moves on. He's an extremely obvious troll, and nothing more.

Dios just likes to argue. His posts annoy a lot of people because of this, but they don't seem to be written in a malicious spirit, just an argumentative one. I don't think it's fair to lump him in with Steve or PP.
posted by mosch at 12:33 AM on August 24, 2005

I kick ass.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 12:52 AM on August 24, 2005

I don't want Paris and crew (dios, Steve@, other newcomers) to leave. There's nothing wrong with having a conservative viewpoint on the site to counter the liberal bias here.

So if a conservative asserts an opinion, it's a viewpoint. If a liberal asserts an opinion, it's bias. Good to know.

And it wasn't just an opinion, PP was obliquely calling for the assassination of a democratically elected official. That's fucked up, no matter which way you want to slice it.

On preview: Fucked is not in the dictionary.
posted by Talanvor at 12:53 AM on August 24, 2005

mosch, Dios relishes jumping into the second or third comment in a thread and shitting on it profusely, usually couching it with something "Oh, once again, the LeFites" etc. You give him too much credit.

As for PP, he considers all of the citizens of Venezuela to be "peasants." That's reprehensible. It's obvious he doesn't leave the house much.

I agree with FFF on a number of issues politically, but rank him up their with the former two in terms of his penchant for asshattery.
posted by bardic at 12:58 AM on August 24, 2005

Banning fff and then discussing him seems unfair and counterproductive -- if pp can sit in on this thread (calling fff "the Sirhan Sirhan of Metafilter" and so on), fff should be able to answer the charges for everyone to read.

Can't someone be banned from blue and green but allowed in brown, and perhaps only in this brown thread? Or is this application too inflexible for that?
posted by pracowity at 1:01 AM on August 24, 2005

I bet if you mapped the MeFette contribution rate to the grey -vs- the blue and compared it to the boys it would show....something to think about.
posted by peacay at 1:08 AM on August 24, 2005

(Is this grey? I thought it was a sort of muddy sewer-water brown. Maybe it's the pee-stain yellow buttons and links that fooled me.)
posted by pracowity at 1:15 AM on August 24, 2005

Balisong : "You can try to diffuse death threats against members, but there's nothing that says one member might go off and punch another. No matter how many time outs, or banination."

True. But that's not what bannination is for. Bannination is not an attempt to prevent real-world violence, it is an attempt to prevent folks from threatening other folks on Mefi. Much like when someone says "shut the fuck up, man!" when their roomate shouts "Wake up or I'm gonna pour a bucket of water on your head!", they aren't trying to prevent the bucket of water from being poured on themselves, they're trying to shut up their obnoxious roomate.

Balisong : "There used to even be a time when it wasn't forbidden to be rude to somebody. I could run a vaccum cleaner salesman, or a Jehovah's Witness off my property with a shotgun.
"Alas, those days are behind us."

Nah, you can still be rude to people. There's plenty of evidence of that all around.

Ryvar: "I don't want Paris and crew (dios, Steve@, other newcomers) to leave. There's nothing wrong with having a conservative viewpoint on the site to counter the liberal bias here."

Talanvor : "So if a conservative asserts an opinion, it's a viewpoint. If a liberal asserts an opinion, it's bias. Good to know."

Er, no. That's not what "bias" means. If a conservative asserts an opinion, it's a viewpoint (or an opinion, more likely). If a liberal asserts an opinion, it's a viewpoint (or an opinion, more likely). If a site has more liberal views or commentators than conservative, it has a liberal bias. If it has more conservative views or commentators than liberal, it has a conservative bias. MeFi is more liberal than conservative, so it has a liberal bias. Doesn't mean it's wrong, just means it tilts towards liberal.

pracowity : "(Is this grey? I thought it was a sort of muddy sewer-water brown. Maybe it's the pee-stain yellow buttons and links that fooled me.)"

Apparently it shows up as brown on some computers/monitors (perhaps browsers?). For me it's a very neutral flat smooth grey.
posted by Bugbread at 1:59 AM on August 24, 2005

I find it amusing that you wrote a book in the president thread but basically have nothing to say here. Consistency, huh?

No, fool. Boredom. I have nothing to add to this debate. I support Matt's decision here. I think threatening people with violence is always wrong except in self defense. On the other hand, I think threatening the president publicly is a specific crime. A vague threat against an unspecified person, as FFF did, is not a crime. It's gross, but not illegal. So the two issues are distinct.

If you really want to read my complete views on freedom of speech and the incitement of violence again, be my guest. . There is nothing inconsistent in my views.
posted by realcountrymusic at 4:18 AM on August 24, 2005

Besides, I love PP. I don't want to see it harmed. I would defend to the death its right to say the stupidest things I've ever read on the internets, d00d.
posted by realcountrymusic at 4:23 AM on August 24, 2005

If a conservative asserts an opinion, it's a viewpoint (or an opinion, more likely). If a liberal asserts an opinion, it's a viewpoint (or an opinion, more likely). If a site has more liberal views or commentators than conservative, it has a liberal bias. If it has more conservative views or commentators than liberal, it has a conservative bias. MeFi is more liberal than conservative, so it has a liberal bias. Doesn't mean it's wrong, just means it tilts towards liberal.

Thank you.
posted by Ryvar at 4:42 AM on August 24, 2005

Threatening someone: words.
Kicking someone's ass: not words.

Metafilter: words.

That's all I got.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:30 AM on August 24, 2005

Offering money to have someone hurt: a crime (albeit fff did not name his target).

Urging others to commit violence against a US president: a crime (in some cases).

Some words: incitement, slander, obscenity = crimes.

It just isn't as simple as you make it sound, stavros. In no society in the world is speech absolutely free from all social constraints or sanctions.
posted by realcountrymusic at 5:40 AM on August 24, 2005

Heh. I love watching MeFites make physical threats. As if there's a single can of genuine whoop-ass in this House of Geek. We're such a bunch of sissies we have to fantasize about being able to pay someone to beat each other up.
posted by scarabic at 9:31 PM PST on August 23

Anybody who doesn't understand that threats of violence mark the point where it's no longer worth even having a website wherein to discuss and discourse... whoever that is has a big ass-kicking coming right up from me.
posted by scarabic at 11:26 PM PST on August 23 [!][!]

scarabic, are you just so much more meta that you're trying to freak us the fuck out? or do you think that this continual meetup photo p.r. that your agent insists upon is actually working? bizarrely, it seems that the only reason that all the broads (and amber and Paris, er, dios) think you're so hot is that you're not a total neo maxi zoom dweebie.

anyway, by all means, you should continue your "peace through violence and derision" campaign. it's bound to get you somewhere.
posted by Hat Maui at 5:45 AM on August 24, 2005

Paris is not being threatened, his worldview is being parodied.

That's how I read. Obviously the use of a <parody metamember="paris"> tag would have been useful.*

*Assuming of course I read it properly. Could be wrong. The ambiguity (or amberglowity for some) of the situation makes it a difficult call.
posted by juiceCake at 5:45 AM on August 24, 2005

this is a ridiculous timeout. there is no "there" there.

*awaits timeout from Recumbent Brother*
posted by Hat Maui at 5:50 AM on August 24, 2005

But if fff's comment is a punishable offense, I'm now wondering more than ever if amberglow shouldn't have gotten a timeout for his now-infamous comment that ParisParamus would "seriously regret it" if amberglow ever saw him at a meetup. I know this has been brought up repeatedly, but despite suggestions in those later threads, I don't recall amberglow ever quite clarifying what he meant by that comment. Did he actually plan on hitting a fellow member, or just getting up in his face at a meetup and screaming personal insults at him? If the latter, would that be an acceptable, non-timeout-able threat?

I mean, as long as we're policing threatening outbursts, amberglow's furious (tho not specifically physical) threat was just as horridly shocking a precedent for the site as fff's furious (tho not specifically targetted) version. I'd be curious to hear from an admin what they thought the difference might be, if any. Seems an important guideline to be clear on.

Is it really a threat when it's crystal clear that the person spoken of never dares show his face at the frequent meetups? It was a statement of intent--but one that i knew would never come to pass, unfortunately. Call it a proposal, if you like, or call it a threat. I don't care. Some people (thankfully just a few here) deserve no better. Their actions invite that kind of response.

I said it before and i'll say it again--Paris continually insults and derides everyone on this site daily. He is incapable of making a comment unless it also includes a disparagement of either everyone here or specific members. He is a troll. It's not those people who are fed up with his continual shitting--on this site and other members--that should be given a timeout.
posted by amberglow at 6:26 AM on August 24, 2005

Can I offer five bucks for someone to rub a lot of gum in Paris's hair?
That's pretty much consistent with the level of annoyance I feel when reading him.
posted by klangklangston at 6:32 AM on August 24, 2005

louigi - by my recollection the rules also make it acceptable to advocate assassinating:

• Yasser Arafat

• Jacques Chirac

• Anti-US leaders (as needed)

• But talk shit about a Mefite and wind up dead timed-out.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 6:33 AM on August 24, 2005

I think it's absolutely disgusting that this Ma Thowie lady can just switch us on or off like we are some kind of disembodied shock-jock on radio station W.A.N.K. If someone here can't post for, say, a week, just think of the incredible damage they'll do "on the outside".

Basically, the problem is that mefi provokes the most terrible cacoethes within the tiny, withered minds of its inhabitants - scurrying as they do within its dank and cavernous catacombs, bathing in rivers of malice, and only emerging bile-heavy to the world of thin sunlight in order to belch vast gobs of acidic hate onto the unblemished countenances of the innocent.

Apart from that, though, its quite a delightful community - or "blogopolis", as the modern lexicon mandates.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 6:42 AM on August 24, 2005

If you hadn't just spent so long trying to think up zany things to write, you might have been able to make it to the bathroom in time.
Oh well.
posted by NinjaPirate at 6:48 AM on August 24, 2005

Artist's rendition.
posted by selfnoise at 6:50 AM on August 24, 2005

It just isn't as simple as you make it sound, stavros.

Of course. Nothing is simple if you think about it too much. The trick is not thinking so hard, unless absolutely necessary.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:56 AM on August 24, 2005

Can't resist:

Metafilter: As if there's a single can of genuine whoop-ass in this House of Geek
posted by found missing at 7:00 AM on August 24, 2005

This witch-hunt banning thing on every other metatalk thread, did I need to read Lord of the Flies to understand it?

heh heh.
posted by OmieWise at 7:03 AM on August 24, 2005

Metafilter: The trick is not thinking so hard

Heh.
posted by realcountrymusic at 7:30 AM on August 24, 2005

Gezz. I remember when it was okay to threaten to beat up other members. I once got another member's phone number and address. I called him up and said I was coming over to beat him up. Most people here at that time seemed to think that was okay, although there were several dissenters.

I never did drive over to his apartment. My goal was only to get him to stop posting, and that worked - He never came back. My point is that as ugly as it is, sometimes threatening to beat someone up can be very productive. In PP's case I don't think it's justified though. His schtick is just too pointless and inane. If we beat up members just for being trolling, pointless windbags we'd have to go after 25% of the membership. Not worth the bother in my humble opinion.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:36 AM on August 24, 2005

How did I know amberglow would sidestep condemning any threat directed at Paris, no matter how abhorrent?

Yeah, amberglow is a fine fellow as long as you agree with him politically. Otherwise, you're not human and he's happy to threaten you or cheer any bad things that happen to you. Not that that's unusual around here.

The timeout is silly. The callout is silly. All of this is just words; talking about "crime" is silly. I personally find that kind of thread valuable because it refreshes my memory as to who's worth listening to and who's a babbling asshole; I really don't see how people can get so bent out of shape about childish threats and "ironic" comments. Some of you seem never to have experienced an actual fight and think that impolite words on your computer screen are the moral equivalent of war.

Oh, and just to get past the "we don't really know who he was talking about" stuff, here's an earlier comment that seems to have been ignored:

I'm kicking in C$50 to the "assasinate ParisParamus" fund. Let's get rid of the fucker. posted by five fresh fish at 2:02 PM EST on August 23 posted by languagehat at 7:40 AM on August 24, 2005 On nonpreview: if y6y6y6 is being ironic, I'm missing the point. If what he's saying is true, he's an incredible asshole. posted by languagehat at 7:42 AM on August 24, 2005 I said it before and i'll say it again--Paris continually insults and derides everyone on this site daily. He is incapable of making a comment unless it also includes a disparagement of either everyone here or specific members. He is a troll. It's not those people who are fed up with his continual shitting--on this site and other members--that should be given a timeout. I agree with this. ParisParamus is a troll. Unfortunately, trolling the site is acceptable, so long as you toss in a few right-wing sentiments in between insults. posted by mosch at 7:48 AM on August 24, 2005 Is it really a threat when it's crystal clear that the person spoken of never dares show his face at the frequent meetups? It was a statement of intent--but one that i knew would never come to pass, unfortunately. Ha... I would kick you in your coddled shit-covered nuts if I ever saw you at a meetup. Just a statement of intent... not an actual threat of course. posted by Witty at 8:01 AM on August 24, 2005 "If what he's saying is true, he's an incredible asshole." /shrug Judge for yourself. At ther time you failed to weigh in on the issue as far as I can tell. Also - I find it interesting that even back in that thread we were talking about what an ass PP was. Good times. posted by y6y6y6 at 8:03 AM on August 24, 2005 FFF get s the timeout and PP, yet again, doesn't ? It's not those people who are fed up with his continual shitting--on this site and other members--that should be given a timeout. Agreed. Given this new policy, "Stupid joke or not, I can't get behind people threatening other users on the site", I trust Witty will be indulged in his unambiguous request for a timeout? posted by Zetetics at 8:16 AM on August 24, 2005 FREE FFF posted by mr.marx at 8:18 AM on August 24, 2005 I don't think many of you realize how hollow your comments sound. It is often said that people want diversity of viewpoints here. But they often complain that people who have a differing view aren't straightforward, honest, sincere or whatever as if the opposing viewpoints have to held to a higher standard, even though they have to deal with more grief. It is a shame that I only see a few people who consistently understand and are fair about noting the extreme bad faith with which an opposing viewpoint is recieved. Any vocal poster with an opposing viewpoint is assume to be the worst, have untoward motives for posting, disingenuous, stupid, trolling, etc or just a plain jerk. Treated like that, who could behave differently? If you want opposing viewpoints, don't be so openly threatening to them and insulting to them. A person with opposing views can't possibly be vocal without heaps of scorn. I submit no one with an opposing viewpoint can be respectful and vocal here. Because eventually the sheer amount of bad faith, scorn, insults and the like that the person has to deal with would eventually cause anyone to break down to more base rhetoric. I know this has been pointed out by many people before me and the mob mentality isn't likely to change. But I am just flabbergasted by people who hate PP because he isn't congenial, but then threaten him and joke about him to the point he is turned into a monster. As if he could be anything else by the way he is treated. posted by dios at 8:25 AM on August 24, 2005 I submit no one with an opposing viewpoint can be respectful and vocal here. I submit justgary as example of a poster with an often opposing viewpoint who is both respected and respectful. And respectfully await Witty's timeout. posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:33 AM on August 24, 2005 y6y6y6, you yourself said that you refrained from threatening the guy in that thread (the page with the emails is down, so I can't read the actual correspondence), and then someone else in the thread was criticized for only suggesting to send the guy a virus. And that was concerning a user who was bypassing banning attempts and who openly declared that he wanted to ruin the site. How does that apply here? posted by loquax at 8:33 AM on August 24, 2005 y6y6y6: My apologies; that was before my time, which is why I didn't weigh in and why I had no memory of what you were talking about. The fact that Matt said "Mob. Go. Now. Find him" certainly gives you whatever cover you might need. But it would have been sensible to link to the thread in your first comment; as it stands, you have to agree you sound over-the-top. I was amused to see this comment by fooljay in that thread: What I think would be really really really cool is to have his posts only show up to him and non-authenticated visitors. IOW, when he looks at the site, he sees his posts. When anyone else looks at the site (while logged in), his posts don't appear. Mute-button banning I'll call it. Kills many birds with one bush if you think about it for a second. These ideas just keep cropping up, don't they? posted by languagehat at 8:35 AM on August 24, 2005 "How does that apply here?" It doesn't. Not really. I mean maybe it sort of does. Or not. You know? posted by y6y6y6 at 8:36 AM on August 24, 2005 y6y6y6 - not to pick on you for comments made years ago (seriously), but I couldn't resist delicious irony! Matt should press charges. Seriously. How will people ever learn that you can't just threaten to beat people up if we just stand by while PParts breaks the law? (PParts not referring to ParisParamus, but to the troll in question at the time) posted by loquax at 8:42 AM on August 24, 2005 As if there's a single can of genuine whoop-ass in this House of Geek. Hah! Very true. Any actual physical altercation between two of us would definitely be a slap fight. posted by LarryC at 8:44 AM on August 24, 2005 Hat Maui - I'm gathering that you desperately need more attention in your life, and that you disagree with something I said. But that second part is still vague. Can you take the gimp mask off and repeat? posted by scarabic at 8:54 AM on August 24, 2005 "you have to agree you sound over-the-top" Score another point for me!!!! The Internet is one of my favorite things. My point is that these things have a context. I did indeed threaten to beat the guy up, I just left that completely out of the MeTa thread. I didn't think it would ever come to blows, but I wanted to completely disconnect that from MetaFilter just in case. In truth, we had exchanged so many emails that I felt I knew him pretty well, and I knew him to be a complete coward. So the best response was to confront his threat to beat up me and Matt by making him confront his cowardice. The context in my case was confronting a racist bully. He threatened to beat me up, I said okay I'll be right over, he slunk away forever. In FFF's case the context was a joke born of complete exasperation and exhaustion. So PP is allowed to troll the site for years, constantly goading people into anger without offering much in the way of thought provoking counterpoint. But when fff gets fed up and responds with some provocative irony, he gets banned. Or whatever. It just seems like we've grown into some tight-asses. posted by y6y6y6 at 9:00 AM on August 24, 2005 Ad hominem arguments offered in refutation of empirically substantiable claims are not "respectful" of an opposing viewpoint, from either (or all) side(s) of a debate. They invite, and sometimes deserve, ad hominem responses, but at the cost of lowering the tone. This well describes contemporary US politics. And it well describes the effects of the political polorization in this country on even our most intimate spheres, let alone our public engagements such as the ones we have on MeFi. Of all the terrible effects of the far right's inexorable ascendancy in the US since the 1980s, the worst is the casting of legitimate opposition as stupid, traitorous, venal, or immoral. It happens from all sides these days (as it has in the past - I'm not claiming the present moment is unique) and it is deeply exacerbated in a time of war. (The more cynical among us think that we are at war largely because of this effect, which is to the advantage of the party in power and with control of the media.) I love to debate with conservatives, even ideologues, who can engage in serious and fact-based argument. There are a few on MeFi. I honestly would be happy to see more, and converse with them. I plead guilty to plenty of ad hominem snark myself. It's very hard to rise above where things are. But this goes beyond right/left polarization. It goes to a cheapening of discourse, and a declining sense of community if it is tolerated. MeFi is (even with all its troubles) an island of civil and passionate debate in a sea of ideological and physical brutality. [/anticipates obligatory "Metafilter: tagline reply] It stays that way by having standards, and a strong hand or two on the rudder. Obviously, enduring the usual snarky banter is part of the deal, and part of the fun. Insults, polemics, and sarcasm can be valuable seasoning for reasoned debate. Threats of physical harm cannot, even if they are registered in insulting, polemical, or sarcastic tones. That way lies trouble and oppression. There's a very bright line, sections of which are enshrined in law, and others in longstanding conventions for civil discourse here and in general, that is simply not hard to see. The point of the "book" I wrote in the presidential thread was that observing this line makes us more rather than less free. We don't need to parse rules like "no physical threats" too finely. They are self-evident. posted by realcountrymusic at 9:07 AM on August 24, 2005 sp: polArization posted by realcountrymusic at 9:08 AM on August 24, 2005 Murdering PP, Dios and Steve@? Not the best of ideas, but I am not going to lose any sleep if it happens. posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 9:12 AM on August 24, 2005 If I had a nickle for every political thread (although not limited to) that someone from the left hasn't jumped in early with a zippy snark-filled trolling comment, well... I just love that this is always everyone's major complaint about the conservative contributers... that and being insensitive, aggressive, insulting, etc. All I know is, it goes both ways and there's plenty more coming from the left than there is from the right (on this site), due primarily to the fact that there are simply more of the former. posted by Witty at 9:22 AM on August 24, 2005 Care to share some examples, Witty? posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:24 AM on August 24, 2005 I am not a troll. I attempt to make points using humor given that I'm outnumbered in outlook, what, 100-2? It remains pathetic that this is not understood by more people (it's the same blindness that go you John Kerry and Howard Dean, but...whatever). posted by ParisParamus at 9:40 AM on August 24, 2005 I think we could all use a good beating from time to time. Maybe we should have a service that at some point, when we least expect it, kicks our ass. I actually agree with the "opposition" on this one. There are certainly trolls on the left and certainly rude snarkiness from the left and there are sure a heck of a lot more of them. For every one PP there are a dozen lefties. I can see how that has got to be frustrating. It's no excuse, but it's got to be frustrating. I don't participate in freep, but I've got to imagine that it is a little maddening to hear 75 times for each post that you are a liberal weenie. I think the only thing I can say to guys like Paris is that the less you give in to just spouting a position and the more time you spend giving more concrete reasoning for your opinions, at least you will come off as presenting an argument and less as a troll and the more the detractors on the left side will look like jackasses. One liners don't seem to be winning over any hearts and minds. posted by Pollomacho at 9:55 AM on August 24, 2005 "It remains pathetic that this is not understood by more people" It remains your responsiblity to actually be funny and get your point across. posted by OmieWise at 9:59 AM on August 24, 2005 Here's a recent example "If I Had An Anus". I won't suggest that it's the best example or is the kind of example that covers all cases. But you take any FPP that targets Bush or the administration, for example, and you can be GUARANTEED to read AT LEAST 50% snark, trolls, insults against conservative MeFi members that aren't even present, etc. within the first 10-20 comments. Every time? Maybe not. Most of the time? Absolutely. posted by Witty at 10:04 AM on August 24, 2005 "It remains your responsiblity to actually be funny and get your point across." I try. Maybe you get my point(s), maybe you laugh, but if you don't, that doesn't make me a troll. Hey, next March will mark my FIFTH year of Metafilter! posted by ParisParamus at 10:10 AM on August 24, 2005 Good comment, Dios. Enforcement of standards here is erratic and ad hoc but, I strongly believe, well-intentioned and, on average, fair. It's probably not a good idea to say something that can be construed as a specific threat to another commenter. posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:14 AM on August 24, 2005 I agree with dios. Hmmm, again. That's strange. Anyway, I took a critical view of Cindy Sheehan in one of the recent posts, and was pretty roundly attacked for it, despite not being one of the conservative "usual suspects." posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:23 AM on August 24, 2005 I try. Maybe you get my point(s), maybe you laugh, but if you don't, that doesn't make me a troll. Hey, next March will mark my FIFTH year of Metafilter! Bad breath has been around since the dawn of time, but that doesn't make it a good thing. I will not go into the definition of "troll" or whether you are one, but you are clearly, at the very least, an attention whore. You are nearly, if not entirely, universally despised by the other members of the site, yet you keep showing up and asking for abuse. The only possible conclusions are that you enjoy stirring up trouble for its own sake or that you enjoy abuse. If you were not around, there would still be plenty of people who would espouse a conservative point of view and who would do so more cogently and in a less hostile manner than you do. People who continue to show up where they're not wanted or appreciated may not be trolls, but they are sad. posted by anapestic at 10:26 AM on August 24, 2005 Ryvar writes "They're outnumbered a hundred to one" Right wing people have trouble being taken seriously? Cry me a river. I have experienced plenty of ignorance and verbal violence in response to my comments here. I have responded with links to support my position and exposition. That is what I have learned to do following years of contributing to this site. As usual for online social problems, penis-size issues on both sides (and in both sexes) are the root cause here So, lets forget about the political orientation and focus on the real issue, people need not feel persecuted. Thicker skin may help with this. posted by asok at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2005 "If you were not around, there would still be plenty of people who would espouse a conservative point of view and who would do so more cogently and in a less hostile manner than you do. People who continue to show up where they're not wanted or appreciated may not be trolls, but they are sad." Yeah, plenty of conservative/neoconservative posters here. Sure. I guess you consider the number "6" to be plenty. If I'm so awful, feel free to ignore me. posted by ParisParamus at 10:45 AM on August 24, 2005 The truth is that the same narrowmindedness and arrogance that dominates the Left causes people to feel obliged to call me a troll, or critique the number of links or annotations in my posts. Sorry, I ain't goin nowhere. posted by ParisParamus at 10:48 AM on August 24, 2005 Hey, next March will mark my FIFTH year of Metafilter! And you should be proud of raising the tone here so much during that time. You're such a witty, sparkling conversationalist--so full of bon mots and links to factual information. You never spout talking points and lies and fail to back them up with links or proof--no sir, not you. No insults have ever dripped from your honeyed tongue. You truly are a ray of sanity shining upon hopelessly delusional people. posted by amberglow at 10:50 AM on August 24, 2005 Make that 7, ParisParamus. I don't think you're a troll. I do think you enjoy being one of the magnificent sane voices in this leftist pit of sin. posted by gsb at 10:59 AM on August 24, 2005 Um, scarabic, you see that quote from five_fresh_fish up there at the head of the thread? The one that started all this? I wish you, and those with you, would please explain why you think that's a threat. I think your wussery interefered with your reading comprehesion. Again: that JGN guy did NOT thtreaten Gee Dubya, Pat Robertson did NOT threaten Chavez, and five_fresh_fish did NOT threaten ParisParamus. And if I say "I think somebody should threaten to threaten to punch you in the nose so you'll know a real threat from an excuse to demonstrate wussiness" I will NOT be threatening you. (Note: I just used something called the second Conditional Mood, which a lot of you people should read before you get your panties bunched up; furthermore I did not speak of harming anyone, but said 'sometimes I think that someone should threaten to threaten'.) I have no doubt that scarabic will again start babbling about what a homicidal psycho I am. posted by davy at 11:14 AM on August 24, 2005 Thicker skin may help with this. Or thicker somethings. Cry me a river is right. This is a voluntary community. It leans left. Just because you are outnumbered doesn't give you a right to be abusive. Convert others or attract new members who come for the brilliant conservative repartee. On the other hand, just because liberals are a numerical majority doesn't make it right to abuse conservatives with ad hominem attacks either. I don't agree that most liberals on MeFi are "abusive" toward conservatives, though it happens and it's wrong. And monju, on the Sheehan thread, I don't think you were really attacked. I thought that was a good and substantive debate, and that your contributions were cogent and were responded to, for the most part, seriously. Maybe I am remembering it wrong. But let's not let the grey-area thinking (pun intended) overwhelm what's black and white here. It's never ok to threaten or call for physical violence in civil debate. Right? Isn't that the point? Snarky, ad hominem, bilious, vituperative polemic ain't pretty, but it's not the same as "I'm gonna kick your ass." (or kill you, etc.) posted by realcountrymusic at 11:25 AM on August 24, 2005 I just used something called the second Conditional Mood, which a lot of you people should read before you get your panties bunched up Rendering a statement deniable while letting its supposedly deniable implication stand is a common rheotrical tactic, as is insinuation of a threat, or incitement ("Won't somebody please shoot . . ." or "if it were legal I would pay$500 for someone to kick the ass of . . ."). If such an implication is made, it behooves a thoughtful debater to add "just kidding" or something of the sort, at least. Mistakes were made. The only question is by whom? Something doesn't have to rise to illegality to be wrong. I fully agree that fff's statement was technically not a threat, nor do I think it was meant to be taken as one, nor did I (or anyone else, I think) actually imagine fff writing a check and PP getting a bloody nose the next day. Doesn't make it right.
posted by realcountrymusic at 11:31 AM on August 24, 2005

And monju, on the Sheehan thread, I don't think you were really attacked. I thought that was a good and substantive debate, and that your contributions were cogent and were responded to, for the most part, seriously. Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

You're correct that there were several civil participants on both sides in that thread, and the debate between those participants was productive, or at least not abusive. However, the background noise in that thread was pretty loud, though. Like mooncrow calling those critical of Sheehan "cynical ... sick shits" whose voices "will die away in the coming whirlwind." A few others dismissed any criticism of Sheehan as an "ad hominem" attack. And that thread was mild, frankly.

I disagree that "snarky, ad hominem, bilious, vituperative polemic" is any different from faux threats of physical violence here. With rare exceptions, there is no opportunity or expectation that any such threat would be carried out. I view threats as little more than rhetorical puffery, and would frankly be shocked if they were actually intended as anything more.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:45 AM on August 24, 2005

On the other hand, just because liberals are a numerical majority doesn't make it right to abuse conservatives with ad hominem attacks either. I don't agree that most liberals on MeFi are "abusive" toward conservatives, though it happens and it's wrong.

It does happen, that's true. But part of the problem is, it happens (damn near) every time though. I agree that most liberals on Mefi are not "abusive" towards conservatives. But you can count on any politically-driven thread, where a conservative dares to show his/her face, that they will be "abused" by someone (and I'm only using that term for continuity's sake). Very rarely, if ever, especially in hot topics, can a conservative escape attack-free. When I read threads like those, I get the feeling that opposing views and opinions aren't welcome, despite everyone's supposed best intentions. It's more of a "get out troll, with your obviously-wrong conservative views... this thread belongs to the left, where we will spend all day trying to one-up each other with ridiculous jokes, sarcastic one-liners and direct insults to you and your kind".

That being said, it's obvious that conservatives shouldn't be looking for comfort and like-minded individuals around here. It just ain't happnin'. Nor should it, necessarily. But damn if it isn't fucking old listening to the masses moan and groan, whine and complain about the same handful of conservative contributers when there's 10 or more left-leaning dickheads for every one on the right. Get the fuck over it already.
posted by Witty at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2005

gsb, Je vous remercie de votre attitude sain.
posted by ParisParamus at 12:00 PM on August 24, 2005

y6y6y6y you're a hardass. Seriously that was pretty cool thing. I would have never gone that far fearing someone might actually call me out on it and be a bigger hardass than I. Good work.
posted by geoff. at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2005

davy, you're right but I'm afraid you're still a homicidal psycho.

As for the so-called value of "diverse opinions" it's bullshit. PP rarely offers an opinion. Take a moment to look up some of his comments. This is a person who has literally gone into threads, shouted, in all caps, an idiotic remark only tangentially related to the topic, and then disappeared. That's not a diverse opinion, it's just trolling. And when PP is such a complete asshole--really he must either enjoy it or just be severely damaged--he shouldn't expect anything but such assholery in return.

Also, dios and bugbread deliberately misuse the word "bias," as it applies to blogs, to somehow provide for some sort of conservative exception. Also bullshit. Sadly, there was a once upon time when interesting, nuanced discussions did frequently occur. There was one poster in particular I actually looked forward to--was it Midas something? Anyways, it's laughable that dios, somebody who starts most every post with the obligatory "Lefites," would even have the audacity to complain about invective, but I digress.

fff's comment was in poor taste and the callout was fine, but the timeout leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's quite clear fff was not seriously threatning PP and it may have even been an ironic comment on PP's above comment.
posted by nixerman at 12:15 PM on August 24, 2005

"PP rarely offers an opinion"

False. I just spice my opinion up with some entertainment value. Because minority viewpoints need that to get heard. It's just that you have little or no tolerance for people who disagree with you.
posted by ParisParamus at 12:22 PM on August 24, 2005

Just to get things strait here, I was under the impression that trolls lived under bridges and trawls were drift nets, no?
posted by Pollomacho at 12:23 PM on August 24, 2005

But rcn, again you're muddying the waters by dragging in something extraneous: we're not arguing here about whether it's right (or polite, or conducive to scholarly discourse) to speak to anybody in any particular way; we're discussing whether what fishy posted (apparently) at Paris was a threat to PP's well-being, or if it was meant to be taken as one, or if it sounds like any harm to PP might result from it. Whether it's "right" or not is beside the point, orthogonal and extraneous. On Metafilter people say things that are not "right" all the time without getting "timed out" for it and without provoking long threads like this.

What matters here is that sanctions were brought to bear because of a misreading of what was said. As far as "rhetorical deniability" goes, that's just silly: my posting "If I were Stalin I'd have half of you shot!", e.g., does not give any reasonable person any reasonable cause for any reasonable fear. That is because a) I am not Stalin, b) nor am I likely to ever be the head of any tyrannical party-state (in fact even my hair won't obey me), so c) all I've really done is vented hot air concerning a dislike of mine which d) I would clearly not in any position to carry out if I had meant it as a threat (see A and B above).

Getting freaked out by the tone someone uses to say something that's pretty innocuous is silly: if I in a loud snarling tone say "Alright you liberal pantywaists, come get your free factory-sealed cans of beer!" have I threatened anybody?

To quote myself, 'What matters here is that sanctions were brought to bear because of a misreading of what was said.' As you've no doubt figured out (I doubt even scarabic could miss it since flat out I've said so several times) what gets me going is when these threads point out things that people do offline as well which bear deleterious implications for civil liberties. If I say, for example, that "I don't think Muslim communal prayer should be outlawed" I have NOT committed a terrorist act nor have I even indicated my approval of any terrorism: I have merely expressed a not-completely-anti-Muslim opinion, which won't stop a lot of "patriots" from hollering about my alleged "hatred of Freedom". That way lies the worst kind of tyranny, the totally stupid kind.

My point here is that if we can teach people to read what is written as well as to hallucinate between the lines we will advance the cause of liberty, and if we can't train highly-educated folks like your average Mefite to do that or to even understand what we're talking about we might as well practice heiling hitler and work on our death-camp skills.

As far as having something nice to say, a lot of us spend a lot of time on the bench beside Ms. Parker. Whether we have any idea what we're yammering about or not. As others here have pointed out, that's just the way political threads go on Metafilter, or anywhere else, on the Net or off, for that matter. This is not the Ladies Sewing Circle: if that's what you want I suggest you get out your needles and thread and go find yourself some ladies. (You could also simply avoid political threads: I haven't seen anything but these go on for this long in ages.)
posted by davy at 12:28 PM on August 24, 2005

PP, lying to yourself isn't tolerated after age 3. I won't even bother addressing your point because it's quite clear to anybody who glances over your posting history that your modus operandi is to show up, shit in the thread, and disappear.

But, just to entertain the remote possibility that you do have an opinion, consider that the majority of users here see your actions as nothing but trolling. In light of this truth, perhaps--if you actually want to participate in the discussion--you should drop the "spice" and focus on making a cogent argument.
posted by nixerman at 12:35 PM on August 24, 2005

It's pretty rad that anyone can say all they want about FFF in this thread and he can't defend himself. What a cool, fun idea.

So here's a message from him:

The ironic part is that just a little while ago fff was yelling at anybody who responded to Paris for being big bait-taking dummies.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:45 PM PST on August 23

ParisParamus has been voicing his sincere support and desire to see someone murdered. Several times over, in fact.

I suppose my mistake was to offer payment.

No biggie. Back whenever, or not. Ciao."
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2005

"I am not a troll."

(why is that like Nixon saying I’m not a crook?)
Va te faire foutre.
You’re a self-avowed troll (Oh, but let’s AGAIN carefully forget you stated explicitly you are here to distrupt this board) and a myopic unprincipled pogue
You see, like many here I believe in free speech. Don’t confuse your disruption with speech. However I don’t believe one has the right to silence another’s voice. I don’t believe in doing violence for money or over empty words. If I did I’d be in Park Slope standing behind you right now.
Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo
That said, I understand FFF’s frustration. I myself wrote in another thread I would smash someone’s testicles flat out of frustration, but I did make it very explicit I meant no real threat. Perhaps FFF forgot that bit. Perhaps he was serious. I don’t know.
Ira furor brevis est
But I do believe you can’t throw down an challenge and not have it answered. PP does that and tries to play the victim. Dios, others, don’t. Fighting words are not always words.
For example: I take exception to gsb’s comment lumping me in “this leftist pit of sin.”
Well,
All Americans suck their mothers asses.
All military people are scumbags.
All ‘X’ists perform ‘x’ unnatural acts.

If someone looked at me and said something like that, I’d be pissed and I might lose my temper. Not just because I identify with them, but I’m there whether I like it or not.
If someone like gsb writes that, I figure they’re talking about THOSE Americans, or THOSE MeFi’ers.
That’s not what PP does.
Making someone angry can be as simple an act as picking your teeth or clicking a pen. If it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on - as PP said for five years, well, someone might lose it.
And if you walk into the middle of that seeing only someone click a pen a few times after being told to stop scores of thousands of times, you might not see where that frustration is coming from and think the one lashing out is the one who is wrong.
Manipulating someone into that position is worse than someone who gives in to that anger and lashes out.
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi sed saepe cadendo
Unlike any other “conservative” voice here - perhaps neocon is appropriate - PP does this. It’s his stated purpose for being here. You can’t challenge someone then run and hide behind mama’s skirt like this.
baisez votre mère

Pardon my French.

PP
349 MetaFilter users near this user:
Not one of them offered to take FFF up.
"By their works shall ye know them"

“I personally find that kind of thread valuable because it refreshes my memory as to who's worth listening to and who's a babbling asshole”

/Although I had babbling asshole after eating 4 bran muffins and a 4 shot espresso.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:26 PM on August 24, 2005

I am not a troll. I attempt to make points using humor given that I'm outnumbered in outlook, what, 100-2?

It's funny to insult people's intelligence, and to tell them to fuck off?

It remains pathetic that this is not understood by more people (it's the same blindness that go you John Kerry and Howard Dean, but...whatever).

Ah yes, and then there's the mandatory derisive comment, not just disagreeing with a viewpoint, but insulting the intelligence of the people who hold it.

You're a troll, and nothing more.
posted by mosch at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2005

The truth is that the same narrowmindedness and arrogance that dominates the Left causes people to feel obliged to call me a troll, or critique the number of links or annotations in my posts.

Yes, and now the entire Left is narrowminded and arrogant.

When will the administrators wake up and realize that ParisParamus is not a purveyor of an alternate opinion, he's a fucking troll.
posted by mosch at 1:30 PM on August 24, 2005

fff - there's a difference between wishing for another's death and specifically wishing for the death of another user.

You might have been making an ironical point, but it was still a threat.
posted by bshort at 1:45 PM on August 24, 2005

mosch, wow, you're great.
posted by ParisParamus at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2005

mosch, wow, you're great.

And you're a troll.

You got me to try out the mefi-killfile greasemonkey script, but it's sadly ineffective because all the angry replies are still visibile, often containing quoted material where you insult the whole of MeFi.
posted by mosch at 2:00 PM on August 24, 2005

If PP's goal is to convince people to listen to him, he's doing the worst possible job. So bad, in fact, that I've sometimes wondered if he's a Marxist with an extremely black sense of humor.

Witty: Yeah, yeah, conservatives are often abused. Conservatives (including you, my friend) often jump right in with the abuse as well. Or is that justified by virtue of being the underdog?

Dios: I've had conversations on this site where we disagree fundamentally but have been cordial. However, when you say something uninformed and biased, I have no problem calling bullshit.

I flag the bullshit trolling crap from leftists. But the sheer number means that I have no real desire to call them out publicly every time they say something stupid (though I will argue vociferously with them from time to time).
posted by klangklangston at 2:04 PM on August 24, 2005

I don't get what the big fuss is all about. All Paris ever seems to post is [killed comment]. What's the big deal?
posted by mullingitover at 2:05 PM on August 24, 2005

Matt, apparently in recognition that conservatives are in the distinct majority, has been consistantly bending over backwards to give them MORE leeway with offensive/trolling/personal/content-free opinions than the "lefties". That is having the unfortunate effect of bringing out MORE abuse from the liberal members, while doing nothing to encourage more reasonable conservatives to join the discussion.

FYI, the domain freefish.org is available (and can be reused the next time fishfucker or troutfishing gets in trouble here).
posted by wendell at 2:58 PM on August 24, 2005

If it were a democracy, I'd vote "parody." I don't think it warranted a ban or suspension, but it's not my site.

PP is a troll. I learned to ignore him years ago, but when there's an easy correction to make (as happens time after time after time after time), it's hard to resist.

However, he's not enough of a troll to warrant a ban or suspension (from what I've seen). He hides his trollness behind moderately relevant comments, which is actually the worst kind of troll, because there's no defense except ignoring him.
posted by mrgrimm at 3:11 PM on August 24, 2005

"He hides his trollness behind moderately relevant comments, which is actually the worst kind of troll, because there's no defense except ignoring him."

= wow. that's really clever. "Moderate relevant." I always thought I was post-Moderate.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:17 PM on August 24, 2005

10 PRINT "THIS THREAD SUCKS"
20 GOTO 10
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:46 PM on August 24, 2005

My point here is that if we can teach people to read what is written as well as to hallucinate between the lines we will advance the cause of liberty, and if we can't train highly-educated folks like your average Mefite to do that or to even understand what we're talking about we might as well practice heiling hitler and work on our death-camp skills.

This is, of course, completely hyperbolic. But you know that. I guess after all these words I am still struggling to make my own position clear. Never for a moment did I think that fff's post was serious. (I'll leave the JGN threat aside, since there's no way to really know its meaning.) I have no problem distinguishing between violent utterances as expressions of a sociopathically violent person and the merely rhetorical use of such expressions. I'm not auditioning for a job at a death camp, and I'm a paid up member of the ACLU. I fancy myself somewhat expert on the subject of the first amendment, in fact. It is deeply meaningful to me as a writer. To defend it, I'd enlist tomorrow.

But you wouldn't threaten violence, even in jest, in a board meeting, a parent/teacher conference, or a political debate, to name a few discourse events that are governed by standards of civility that do constrain "free speech" by convention and a mutual commitment to respectful dialogue. It might not be illegal. But it's still incivil and rude, and I would argue a lot ruder than what passes for "abuse" and "snark" around MeFi most of the time. Defending standards of discourse that are situationally appropriate and conventional community standards does not make you a Nazi. It lowers the tone of discourse to let it pass or overlook it. If a colleague expressed, even in jest, an interest in having another colleague beat up at a faculty meeting, for example, that might well be censurable conduct. At the least, it would damage the reputation of the speaker. Such remarks are destructive of community. It's that basic. On reflection, I think fff's time out is a little severe -- the post should certainly have been deleted, I think. But it's Matt's website, and his call, and sends a message that vitriol and ad hominem attacks can in fact go to far here. I think that's important. All of us with any experience online can cite many communities that have been ruined by anything-goes policies (or lack of policies). MeFi is a remarkable community. It has standards. Enforcing them is both Matt's perogative, and crucial to the maintenance of MeFi's quality, for all of us. The analogy to Nazis, as such analogies usually are, is reductio ad absurdum. I hear your point, but I think it's overstated, just as taking fff's post as a serious threat to do PP bodily harm would be an absurd reaction -- you're correct about that. It's still inappropriate and objectionable, at least to many of us. And that doesn't make those of us who are offended wimps to call it out.
posted by realcountrymusic at 4:27 PM on August 24, 2005

(french note) When trying to insult someone, you usually don't use the formal "vous", but would use "tu" as it implies familiarity. (/french note)
posted by blue_beetle at 4:28 PM on August 24, 2005

Is it really a threat when it's crystal clear that the person spoken of never dares show his face at the frequent meetups?

Yes. It's still "really" a threat. And I'm obviously not the only one still wondering what you meant by it.

It was a statement of intent

To do what, exactly? That's one of the issues, amberglow, that makes some of us hesitate to just let it go as another of the site's many heated outbursts (which often result in apologies). You've repeatedly neglected to clarify the nature of the threat, and left it unclear whether it still stands. Does it? And this, really, is just a fudge:

--but one that i knew would never come to pass, unfortunately.

You don't really know that. Regardless of your perception of Paris' future behavior, the violence inherent in your statement couldn't have been more clear, even if the vagueness comes across as a bit cowardly. We don't know if you mean to punch Paris, toss a glass of water in his face or just yell at him a lot if you ever see him IRL, but either way, the threat of some kind of violence shines through. It's very different from the kind of horrid bullshit Paris regularly pulls here, and surprising coming from someone who, er, regularly allies himself with the forces of peace and thoughtfulness.
posted by mediareport at 4:48 PM on August 24, 2005

It just occurs to me to wonder if any women MeFites are here. God. we men are predictable.

I think the invocation of violence, in jest or not, is specifically objectionable because in the male of the species, myself included, it sparks a reaction that exceeds words. If such a thing were said in face-to-face conversation, say in a bar, there's a good chance even words meant in jest could spill over into actual violence. I've wanted to kick the ass of more than one internet adversary over the years, and only anonymity and inconvenience have intervened in my instinctive reaction.

On the flip side, because we are disembodied here, it's so much easier to let such remarks slip, to act toward others in a way we would not act in face-to-face encounters even with someone truly awful unless very seriously provoked. And it's also easier to dismiss such remarks as "just words." Because in a sense, that's true, and truer than it would be offline for certain. So maybe we are just applying different contextual filters here. I try to apply the same ethics to online as I'd apply in offline encounters, as much as I love the specificities of the net as a context. Do some things "go" online that wouldn't be so cool offline? Empirical evidence suggests they do.

But MeFi is a different kind of online community, one in which many participants are not anonymous, members routinely meet up, many of us work in a few industries and probably know people in common. Some of us are close to each other in real life. We put our selves into this conversation in ways that expose our trust in the high level of self-policing and self-analysis that obtains here, the explicit "meta-" commitment to making the community itself, and its culture, objects of care, attention, and maintenance. At least that's my impression, as a member for only a few months, though a longer-time follower and admirer of the site.

What is that worth? This is hardly near the bigger challenges this community has endured, to judge from the archives, though I do think the Iraq war is a cancer on society that is setting people against each other in newly fierce ways as it becomes more intractable and ugly and obviously based on lies, and that we are enduring a long slow challenge to civil discourse in the US (at least, I know MeFi is international) of a very grave sort from our political culture. Two long conversations about threats, violence, assassination, and the limits of appropriate speech on MeFi and under the law in a row, following two threads in which political assassination was discussed like the latest cool Flash animation (I exaggerate) . . . this conversation matters.

I guess I am just saying, via the Clinton White House website, via the National Archives, and via Rodney King can't we all just get along? (irony alert on link)

I'm sure in real life each one of us could really kick some ass. We ought to have the next meetup in Sturges and prove it.

Here's a better idea.
posted by realcountrymusic at 5:07 PM on August 24, 2005

I really do think the world would be a better place if people were nicer to each other. Maybe after we line Those People up and shoot them we can try it sometime. But for now I'm afraid we'll have to stick to "Sing 'Kumbaya' with all us liberal nonconformists or get sent to Gitmo, you impolite scumbag!"
posted by davy at 7:22 PM on August 24, 2005

P.S. That was irony, parody (and self-parody), sarcasm and hyperbole. So to paraphrase Benny Goodman: take my life, please!
posted by davy at 7:26 PM on August 24, 2005

Benny Goodman? I think you mean Henny Youngman.
posted by Snyder at 7:32 PM on August 24, 2005

But RCN, the beach people get disappeared from is Aruba. But wait, that might only work for pretty blond girls; maybe you'd have better luck "losing" me from the 22nd Street Landing.

And by the way, Robertson says his remarks about Chavez were misinterpreted.
posted by davy at 7:32 PM on August 24, 2005

Jesus H. Christ, if I paid $500 to have everyone beaten up whom I think is a complete prick, I'd be in much debt. Have all other options of retribution been exhausted, like name-calling, trolling accusations, and insults involving the target's mother? and those are just the three obvious ones... posted by clevershark at 7:36 PM on August 24, 2005 That "take my wife" guy was Henny Youngman? [Google search] I'll be a durned flapdoodle, it was. I stand corrected. At least I knew it wasn't Charles Nelson Reilly. posted by davy at 7:39 PM on August 24, 2005 the beach people get disappeared from is Aruba. But wait, that might only work for pretty blond girls Actually, according to a real journalist who's a blogger, Aruba's safer than Jamaica, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, etc. etc. (I regret not doing a FPP on this... but not much) FreeFish! posted by wendell at 8:55 PM on August 24, 2005 nixerman : "Also, dios and bugbread deliberately misuse the word 'bias,' as it applies to blogs, to somehow provide for some sort of conservative exception. Also bullshit." I neither deliberately used nor misused the word "bias". I explained what the term meant in the context of Ryvar's statement. My comment was neither an endorsement nor a rebuttal of Ryvar's statement. (Like if someone said "It's a goddamn shame that thing A happened" and someone else responded "You're saying that God has damned the fact that it happened!". I'm just saying "No, that's not what he meant. He used the word 'goddamn' as an expletive indicating emphasis, not a statement of holy damnation". That is neither in agreement or disagreement with whether it's actually a good or bad thing that thing A happened) davy : "we're not arguing here about whether it's right (or polite, or conducive to scholarly discourse) to speak to anybody in any particular way; we're discussing whether what fishy posted (apparently) at Paris was a threat to PP's well-being, or if it was meant to be taken as one, or if it sounds like any harm to PP might result from it." We're discussing both. Or, rather, some are discussing one, others are discussing the other, and yet others are discussing both. Personally, I don't think FFF was making a real, viable, worryable threat against PP. However, I support his timeout, on the grounds of politeness, etiquette, social mores, or whatever you would call it. FFF : "I suppose my mistake was to offer payment." I suspect FFF's annoyance is clouding his perception: the issue being brought up here is not the offering of payment, it's the direction of the threat at another member. Whether it's a real threat, parody, satire, irony, synechdochy, or soliloquy is another issue, but the problem is certainly not the offer of payment. And I think realcountrymusic is my new favorite MeFite posted by Bugbread at 9:15 PM on August 24, 2005 "It just occurs to me to wonder if any women MeFites are here. God. we men are predictable." posted by realcountrymusic at 5:07 PM PST on August 24 [!] Yes, rcm, there was one at 9:49 and 10:19 August 23rd. Twenty four hours later, it is easy to see that my suggestion to take a nice walk in the cool evening air was not accepted. Where were the other female mefites? Filing their nails? Ironing a blouse for work? Popping corn for the performance? Rolling their eyes thinking "Here they go again"? Yawning? posted by Cranberry at 9:21 PM on August 24, 2005 i've always thought expert trolling had one valuable and wonderful benefit ... it causes people to reveal things about themselves that they would never otherwise reveal ... like they'd joke about paying someone 500 bucks to beat another poster up ... or they'd stamp their feet in impotent and childish rage every time that poster dared to make a comment i don't agree with pp's politics ... not at all ... but i understand what he's doing and why he's doing it ... he's revealing that some of you don't really think as much as you emote ... and that a few of you can't even emote all that well he's doing us a service by showing us that there are those on the left who are potentially as much a danger to freedom and truth as the usual suspects on the right ... because of their willingness to be led into demonizing and imitation demogoguery he could be just this guy making snarky remarks that no one pays attention to ... if you'd only let him i find this whole tempest and the last one about him showing up at air america in an lgf t-shirt to be funny as hell posted by pyramid termite at 9:27 PM on August 24, 2005 Give it a break, all. It's a timeout. BFD. I guess I'm going to just sit back and enjoy the fact that I agree with Matt. Not sure what else to say. PP is neither troll nor truthspeaker. He's a caricature. And davy, I hate to break it to you but I have no opinion of you whatsoever. posted by scarabic at 10:23 PM on August 24, 2005 *rolls eyes* this is so Jr. high. *sigh* posted by edgeways at 11:10 PM on August 24, 2005 realcountrymusic is the new EB as far as comment length is concerned. I will pay$500 towards getting him an editor.
posted by longbaugh at 5:03 AM on August 25, 2005

I'm in for $20. Just kiddin', rcm; that was a great comment. posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:13 AM on August 25, 2005 Where were the other female mefites? Filing their nails? Ironing a blouse for work? Popping corn for the performance? Rolling their eyes thinking "Here they go again"? Yawning? They're probably too busy contributing worthwhile material to worthwhile threads. posted by Pollomacho at 7:12 AM on August 25, 2005 However, I support his timeout, on the grounds of politeness, etiquette, social mores, or whatever you would call it. So would you support the same for amberglow's threat? posted by languagehat at 8:16 AM on August 25, 2005 Pollomacho, you just earned yourself 1000 points for skilful use of flattering. Very slick. posted by funambulist at 8:41 AM on August 25, 2005 realcountrymusic is the new EB as far as comment length is concerned. I will pay$500 towards getting him an editor

Point taken. I considered the username "prolix" when I signed up for MeFi. And this topic compels me. I'm taking a time out myself for a few days to give y'all a break.
posted by realcountrymusic at 9:31 AM on August 25, 2005

ParisParamus: "I am not a troll. I attempt to make points using humor given that I'moutnumbered in outlook, what, 100-2?"

So if I'm the only white guy on the bus I need to yell racials slurs as loud as I can to balance things out?
posted by 31d1 at 9:43 AM on August 25, 2005

First Rule of Comedy: If nobody else thinks you're funny, you're not.
posted by quantumetric at 10:10 AM on August 25, 2005

Yes, rcm, there was one at 9:49 and 10:19 August 23rd. Twenty four hours later, it is easy to see that my suggestion to take a nice walk in the cool evening air was not accepted.

I rest my case. Often on MeFi it can be hard to guess the sex of the poster, and this can be interesting for the way it deforms the usual gender dynamics of informal conversation, but sometimes it is dead easy. On behalf of my male interlocutors, right, left, and otherwise, let me simply say that, predictably, you were right about that walk thing. Now I'm doing it, albeit on an airplane, so adieu.
posted by realcountrymusic at 10:39 AM on August 25, 2005

So if I'm the only white guy on the bus I need to yell racials slurs as loud as I can to balance things out?

Yes, actually. Do that. It would be a really good learning experience for you and would only cost you bus fare and insurance deductible.

The satisfied grin on the other riders faces as they bounce your face off the pavement - priceless.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:52 AM on August 25, 2005

Often on MeFi it can be hard to guess the sex of the poster, and this can be interesting for the way it deforms the usual gender dynamics of informal conversation, but sometimes it is dead easy.

No kidding. I am often mistakenly identified on MeFi, and I'm not exactly sure why..
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:06 AM on August 25, 2005

You mean you're not a transsexual?
posted by Pollomacho at 11:45 AM on August 25, 2005

See what I mean?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:09 PM on August 25, 2005

Pollomacho: "Yes, actually. Do that. It would be a really good learning experience for you and would only cost you bus fare and insurance deductible.
The satisfied grin on the other riders faces as they bounce your face off the pavement - priceless.
"

Umm, ok. All i was trying to say is that what matters in a debate is ultimately ones ideas, not the level of representation. If you're the only one to make the case, then make the damn case, and if it's good enough then you might change peoples minds.

No ones shutting PP out of arguments here, and as far as power goes his boys are basically running things in this country, so i don't need to hear him say that because his views are underrepresented on a message board he has an obligation to troll harder.

(Believe it or not I was not advocating yelling racial slurs on a crowded bus!, but now that I'm here I will wonder aloud about why Mefi is so incredibly diverse in all things, except, for some reason, politics.)
posted by 31d1 at 12:20 PM on August 25, 2005

I know what you were saying, and I agreed with it, I still think it would be pretty hi-larious if you got on a bus and went buck wild.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:41 PM on August 25, 2005

languagehat : "So would you support the same for amberglow's threat?"

No, but only because it's far less clear whether the threat was physical or to talk someone to death. If amberglow's threat was more explicitly physical, hell yeah.

(And that's not meant to imply that the same should or shouldn't happen in response to amberglow's threat, it's just my personal opinion. It's a close enough call that if matt and the majority of folks decided the same should be done, I wouldn't find the conclusion particularly problematic)
posted by Bugbread at 9:31 PM on August 25, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:09 PM on August 31, 2005

posted by gramschmidt at 10:15 AM on September 1, 2005

[not very animated gif]
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:17 PM on September 1, 2005

BTW guys, "/g/if" as in "get" or "/j/if" as in "jet"? Discuss.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:19 PM on September 1, 2005

The important thing to remember is never, never run GIS for 'jif' with SafeSearch turned off.

Unless, of course, you have just been trolled by dios/god/stay-puft.

.|.

posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:15 PM on September 1, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:57 PM on September 1, 2005

Oh, how nice! A little fire. Thanks IIHAA.
posted by Cranberry at 11:06 PM on September 1, 2005

This thread is *hot*.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:09 AM on September 2, 2005

and (uni)corny
posted by If I Had An Anus at 5:06 AM on September 2, 2005

G as in "Get" or "jet"? Huh. I've been pronouncing it "Throat-Warbler Mangrove".
posted by gramschmidt at 9:36 AM on September 2, 2005

Sorry to take so long goodnews, while this ahem burning issue dominated you thinking. Although a PC user, I never ever thought "jiff" - as demonstrated above, jif is peanut butter.
GIF

(Graphics Interchange Format) A popular bitmapped graphics file format developed by CompuServe. Pronounced "giff" by Macintosh users and "jiff" by PC users, GIF supports 8-bit color (256 colors) and is widely used on the Web, because the files compress well. GIFs include a color table that includes the most representative 256 colors used. For example, a picture of the forest would include mostly greens. This method provides excellent realism in an 8-bit image.
posted by Cranberry at 1:11 AM on September 3, 2005

An all-inclusive Happy Birthday to longboat survivors with special application to raedyn and grapefruit moon.
posted by Cranberry at 12:55 PM on September 4, 2005

Happy Birthday veterans!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:57 PM on September 4, 2005

The pronunciation of the image format mirrors the pronunciation of the peanut butter brand. More here: The GIF Pronunciation Page
posted by ryanrs at 3:48 AM on September 5, 2005

And congrats on the engagement Cranberry and gnfti! And on the initiation, ryan!
posted by If I Had An Anus at 5:12 AM on September 5, 2005

Disclaimer: no users were betrothed (or hazed) in the making of the preceding comment. I was just *makes quotey fingers* engaging in playful banter.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 5:19 AM on September 5, 2005

Hi folks.
posted by kenko at 8:33 AM on September 5, 2005

I am engaged? Why, that is wonderful news, er, make that good news. Gnfti, you are in the Netherlands, right? Near Amsterdam where all the excellent diamond cutters are, right? What a happy circumstance. Nothing too flashy please, no larger than four blue white carats, in a tasteful emerald cut.
Hi, kenko.
posted by Cranberry at 12:28 PM on September 5, 2005

Now,4 hours later when MetaFilter has resumed at least a temporary semblance of life, thanks for the shoutout IIHAA.
posted by Cranberry at 4:24 PM on September 5, 2005

*sniff*

I will forever shed a single ridiculous, animated gif tear for Harry Morgan. This particular, extremely touching and generous outwardly-directed shout is much appreciated, danO.

posted by gramschmidt at 9:37 PM on September 5, 2005

Did anyone show up claiming to not be orthogonality?
posted by gramschmidt at 9:42 PM on September 5, 2005

Those were superb shoutouts, danO. I got a real and true birthday shoutout. I'm so touched.

Meanwhile, I've been away for a week the mycomments page tells me. Actually it tells me "You have not commented on any items in the past 7 days... you need more MeFi in your life." And it's true, it's true. MeFi knows me so well.

Instead of sitting at my desk, writing to you all, I've been on strike for a week (and counting). grrr. But I'm trying to remember the positive parts. Like I'm losing my fishbelly whiteness - looks like I might get a tan. And between not being able to afford proper food and all that damn walking I might loose some weight. Not that either of these things is important to me, but shh, don't remind me of that, I need stuff to feel good about!
posted by raedyn at 2:28 PM on September 6, 2005

Should we send raedyn a cake CARE package?
posted by Cranberry at 3:11 PM on September 6, 2005

Meantime, raedyn, congratulate yourself for sacrificing in support of your principles while getting exercise and losing weight. Silver lining? Are you picketing and getting all that good walking? Hope you are wearing a hat and sunblock.
posted by Cranberry at 3:16 PM on September 6, 2005

I too appreciate the shoutout.
posted by kenko at 8:24 PM on September 6, 2005

Wow, I must have passed out on the lawn again. I can't remember anything about the party. What outrageous promises did I make to Cranberry this time? I was just trying to get some, you know. Yeah I know, spare me your men-are-pigs criticism, I'm just being honest.

(There *was* some heavy s-t-r-k-i-n-g going on, though.)

Thanks for the shout-out, Bereft of Orifice.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 1:45 PM on September 7, 2005

Does this mean that I am Bereft of Four Carat Blue White from Amsterdam? Oink!
posted by Cranberry at 3:18 PM on September 7, 2005

*music swells*

*tear wells*

I'm sorry, berrybelly! Come here shrub, let's snuggle.

*snuggles with cran*

*plots bank robbery to finance four carat blue white*
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:33 PM on September 7, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:35 PM on September 7, 2005

Hi, kenko. Did you meet any sharks out west? You went west didn't you? I have never been west.

I considered doing it myself, schmidtmeister G. But then orthogonality returned truimphant and we saw his 'O' face. And quonsar was there. And you, Uncle Miguel,... you were there too.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:13 PM on September 7, 2005

Dear John gnfti, I think IIHAA should rob the bank or do whatever is necessary to purchase a blue-white four carat for each of us. After all, the whole thing was his idea.

But we can always be friends.
posted by Cranberry at 12:47 AM on September 8, 2005

Uh oh.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:10 AM on September 8, 2005

I see what you mean IIHAA. We will be homeless on September 23 because 10127 is closed.
We have 15 days for top level conferences to decide how to negotiate an alternate site/date, or to find supermarket shopping carts for our possessions.
posted by Cranberry at 12:10 PM on September 8, 2005

Not only that: uh oh. However, these two seem like the kind of thread we could thrive in.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:35 PM on September 8, 2005

Thriving in 10126 sounds 9622v2-ish since it is about being unable to post to closed threads. Somehow I got the impression that after hours posting is possible, if not exactly welcome.

There may be even better candidates before the 9-23 deadline. No need to panic yet.
posted by Cranberry at 4:00 PM on September 8, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:39 PM on September 8, 2005

Are we supposed to move to Area 51 and get picked up by space ships? Isn't that a bit extreme? Longboat to space ship with in a few weeks of time? Are we sufficiently evolved?
posted by Cranberry at 8:06 PM on September 8, 2005

Are we sufficiently evolved?

Not me, certainly.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:52 PM on September 9, 2005

Hey! Wait a gosh-tootin' minute...I'm supposed to hold up a bank becuase you two can't express your feelings for each other without exchanging rocks?

Well, OK, but only because I love you guys.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:02 PM on September 9, 2005

ill-timed joke about hating you all.
posted by Jamie Farr at 8:28 PM on September 9, 2005

Btw, there is but One GIS result for gosh-tootin. He is really Gosh? What's making him toot? Why does he taunt America?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:39 PM on September 9, 2005

we all love your dress, klinger
posted by Cranberry at 10:55 PM on September 9, 2005

I feel I've become hopelessly out of the loop. Stupid strike.

Feel free to ignore the bitter woman in the corner (me).

On the plus side I'm walking 10 miles per day. My feel are taking a beating, but othr than that it's probably good for me.
posted by raedyn at 9:51 AM on September 10, 2005

Also on the plus side, today I don't have to picket. I've decided not to wear pants today in honour of the occasion.
posted by raedyn at 9:53 AM on September 10, 2005

raedyn! On your day off from picketing, you deserve to be comfortable.Are you with the same company as before eggbert was born?
posted by Cranberry at 11:15 AM on September 10, 2005

Whoah!

Also whoah. 9000thrds ago
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:06 PM on September 10, 2005

Congrats on the nakedness.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:07 PM on September 10, 2005

Are you with the same company as before eggbert was born? - Cranberry

No. I took my year of maternity leave (thank you Canada) then went back there for 8 months. Now I've been working in the civil service for a year.

Thanks for reminding me of that blog, BTW. I haven't looked at it for at least a year, maybe more. It's interesting to go back and read it now. Particularly since I spent this afternoon at a baby shower for a girlfriend that is expecting her first child, so I was already thinking a lot about pregnancy and birth and that whole experience.
posted by raedyn at 5:38 PM on September 11, 2005

If your pg girlfriend is online, she might appreciate reading your blog.
posted by Cranberry at 8:33 PM on September 11, 2005

give her a link?
posted by Cranberry at 8:33 PM on September 11, 2005

Hi again. I just scheduled me some cable internet! Hoo boy! Come the 17th I will be rocking the online world again, and not from a library neither!
posted by kenko at 12:33 PM on September 12, 2005

Look out world, here comes kenko.
posted by Cranberry at 11:55 PM on September 12, 2005

If this kenko is rockin', don't come knockin'.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:19 AM on September 13, 2005

Congratumalations, kenko.

kenko's getting high-speed, raedyn's on strike, Cranberry and gnfti are enjoying their post-honeymoon annulment, IIHAA shivved the CFO of Wild Oats, Inc. on live TV, and Jamie Farr can be accused and found wholly guilty only of keeping it real.

I, on the other hand, have just moved, and now nothing is true.

However,

posted by gramschmidt at 10:48 AM on September 13, 2005

"Bilgi" means "information" or "knowledge", and I suspect "Matematik Oyunlari" means "Maths for Kids".

Other books in the series include "Anam Orospu Olma" and "Ibneler: Cok Guzel".

I sure hope no Turks are reading this.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:22 PM on September 13, 2005

That was a brain fart. It means "Math Games". I stand by the rest of my statement, however.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:27 PM on September 13, 2005

Is it time for a house warming yet, gram? *prepares party hats*
posted by raedyn at 3:41 PM on September 14, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:38 PM on September 14, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:48 PM on September 14, 2005

Does Eğlenceli Bİlgi mean Ethereal Bligh in Turkish?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:52 PM on September 14, 2005

If that meteor hit gram's new abode, the party will be at kenko's - unless the meteor hit the bay area.
I just hope getting there is overland this time.
posted by Cranberry at 9:07 PM on September 14, 2005

Damn, it did hit gram's house!
posted by If I Had An Anus at 1:35 PM on September 15, 2005

Gram lives lived in the big tag?
posted by Cranberry at 4:54 PM on September 15, 2005

posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:10 AM on September 16, 2005

Please tell me we still have at least unidirectional text sizing.
posted by gramschmidt at 12:52 PM on September 16, 2005

Hey everyone, DuffStone is throwing a piccie party. Bring your surviving tags and a side dish.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 1:07 PM on September 16, 2005

My, what long fingers you have, gnfti.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 1:08 PM on September 16, 2005

Matt is thus enforcing modesty over ostentation. Some of us, however, refuse.

posted by gramschmidt at 1:11 PM on September 16, 2005

Geez, how many trips to the dentist has that guy had to endure? I count at least two cavities and some bridge work.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:44 PM on September 16, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:21 PM on September 16, 2005

posted by gramschmidt at 12:18 PM on September 17, 2005

Finally! Internet! In my vaginahome!

I hate the way comcast refuses to tell you unless you REALLY PRESS that you don't actually need to run their rinky-dink CD in order to register your modem. Why, oh why, can't they also send instructions for setting proxy servers and doing it over teh webs for those so inclined? Where "inclined" might mean "forced to do so owing to running Linux". This wouldn't even mean officially supporting Linux, since, one, that's really a modem thing anyway, and two, it would just be a way of saying "here, you can do it this way if you've got the courage to do so. By the way, don't ask for tech support if you do it this way."

Christ!
posted by kenko at 1:54 PM on September 17, 2005

Some important questions:

-If he spent so much time among the Smurfs, how come Gargamel never found out the location of the Smurf village?

-If he hated the Smurfs so much, why did he want to eat them?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:51 AM on September 18, 2005

Don't you want to eat the people you hate?
posted by kenko at 4:25 PM on September 18, 2005

Yes. But I don't know where they live.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:55 AM on September 19, 2005

Neither did Gargamel. What's the problem?
posted by kenko at 10:11 AM on September 19, 2005

I believe our ears are burning. Or at least smoking, or they've been doused with lighter fluid, and someone's working the bellows, but they're not quite ready for Joan of Arc yet.
posted by gramschmidt at 11:13 AM on September 19, 2005

Oh, caddis, not to worry! This is a moveable feast!
Is it possible that caddis thinks "progressive party" is only a political term?
Longboat survivors know that the term also applies to a party with serial hosts: cocktails at one home, salads at another, main dish at yet another, etc.
If dessert is to be fruit and nuts, perhaps kenko would host that portion since he seems to have moved to the land of.
posted by Cranberry at 12:33 PM on September 19, 2005

« Backwards stroke | longboat Forwards??? »
posted by If I Had An Anus at 12:47 PM on September 19, 2005

OMG this party has been going on all summer.

Lots of good stuff, but I still like the roasting marshmallows.
posted by caddis at 3:23 PM on September 19, 2005

From online Dictionary:
n. A coarse woolen fabric, yarn, or ribbon binding.

From caddis' user page:
It's a fishing thing.

caddis, please explain how a coarse woolen fabric is a fishing thing. Unless it involves blood or explosives. As you can see, this page has plenty of those. And marshmallows.
posted by Cranberry at 3:49 PM on September 19, 2005

posted by caddis at 4:18 PM on September 19, 2005

Bookburing is so wrong.
posted by caddis at 4:19 PM on September 19, 2005

I'm not so sure about IHAA's suggested new hangout. Kids over there are strange.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:38 PM on September 19, 2005

Quick! Which Roman emperor feasted in the manner Cranberry described?
posted by kenko at 5:55 PM on September 19, 2005

Although I am, of course, extremely excited about the prospect of life in Smurfdom, I instead humbly propose a temporary 9622v2 Extension Anomaly.

Let 9622v2 be defined as

http://metatalk.metafilter.com/mefi/{9622 + 101n}

where n ∈ Ζ* .

We should, as discussed, obviously next move to 10127, which is closed. As is 10128. And 10126 is a step backward chronologically, if not morally.

Compounding our struggle is the fact that 10228 doesn't yet exist.

Thus, in order to form a more perfect longboat, and to ensure the blessings of 9622v2 to ourselves and our posterity (latent Americocentrism notwithstanding), I propose we temporarily discard our theoretical framework and inhabit 10129. It seems hospitable and accommodating, despite the big tag having been wrested from our arsenal.

In the event that we do, in fact, get 29 more MeTa threads in the next four days, my proposal will be rendered superfluous, and we shall proceed to 10228.

Also, the regular procession to 10228 (once it exists) shall be contingent upon the accessibility of the thread and its own procession off the front page and into our hearts.

posted by gramschmidt at 6:41 PM on September 19, 2005

I vote in favor of gramschidt's proposal. Henceforth, let $\textrm{9622v2} \equiv \left\{ \begin{array}{ll} \textrm{http://metatalk.metafilter.com/mefi/9622}+101n & n \elem \boldmath{Z}* - \{5\} \\ \textrm{http://metalk.metafilter.com/mefi/10129} & n = 5\end{array}$. I think we can all agree to that!
posted by kenko at 9:06 PM on September 19, 2005

caddis-fly n : small moth-like insect having two pairs of hairy membranous wings and aquatic larvae
Why, thank you caddis for promptly enlightening me on this burning book issue. Are you one of the authors?
Never mind! I do not want to start another thread about "outing" mefites rl identity!
Love that little campfire. Can we have s'mores on the journey to 10129? I'll bring graham crackers.
posted by Cranberry at 9:43 PM on September 19, 2005

here we go
posted by kenko at 10:08 PM on September 19, 2005

golly! kenko posted an invalid parameter. Now I am worried. Kenko, are you not a valid integer?
posted by Cranberry at 10:37 PM on September 19, 2005

btw kenko
Quick! Which Roman emperor feasted in the manner Cranberry described?
I give up. Which? and the answer better not be bloody or explosive.
posted by Cranberry at 10:54 PM on September 19, 2005

I can't remember!
posted by kenko at 11:36 PM on September 19, 2005

He's mentioned in the Larousse Gastronomique, though, so if anyone wants to just read it straight through and find it, go ahead.
posted by kenko at 11:36 PM on September 19, 2005

Done. It was Hadrian.
posted by gramschmidt at 8:43 AM on September 20, 2005

No it wasn't.

(You thought I wouldn't check?)
posted by kenko at 10:56 AM on September 20, 2005

Bookburing is so wrong.

Indeed it is.

And may I add what a fine display of grace from you, our host, on your part, caddis, it is ... for you to accept our threadpalooza into your threadfaluga.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:40 PM on September 20, 2005

Or vice versa?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:40 PM on September 20, 2005

gnifty, that is a wonderful, wonderful thread concerning the status of the blue in the age of gargamel, but--well you know--they're doing that math thing again, and its portents are skewing rapidly towards Bookburing 10129.

Maybe we can ask Matt to implement UBB-code here. It'll be almost the same.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 8:48 PM on September 20, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:09 PM on September 20, 2005

I do hope raedyn gets off strike before we load up the hippy bus for the legendary bay area. Maybe we can leave her a sandwich with an arrow pointing the way.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:20 PM on September 20, 2005

That picnic certainly isn't a MeFi meet! Where is the preponderance of males?
And no campfire, so no s'mores.
Raedyn can do the Hansel and Gretel thing with marshmallows instead of bread crumbs. They will guide her and sustain her on the extra long trek past 10127.
posted by Cranberry at 10:43 PM on September 20, 2005

It's the birthday of the man who first put high quality literature into paperbacks, Sir Allen Lane, born in Bristol, England (1902), the founder of Penguin Books.

Yoo hoo! Over here Sir Allen. Just look at all the high quality writing on this page.
posted by Cranberry at 12:03 AM on September 21, 2005

Hi grapefruitmoon.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:47 AM on September 22, 2005

stroke |Forwards??? Forwards »
posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:52 AM on September 22, 2005

Heavens, the front page has been on fire lately.

Additionally, moift was responsible for my untimely demise, in a coffee shop no less. I suppose I'll have to find another place to study where I'm not known as the snickering lunatic on the floor.
posted by gramschmidt at 10:38 AM on September 22, 2005

posted by kenko at 10:52 AM on September 22, 2005

Sir Allen's dead? Rats. I baked him a cake and was just lighting the 103rd candle.
posted by Cranberry at 12:06 PM on September 22, 2005

I killed him.
posted by kenko at 8:26 PM on September 22, 2005

He was delicious.
posted by kenko at 8:26 PM on September 22, 2005

Did he taste like chicken penguin?
posted by Cranberry at 11:55 PM on September 22, 2005

Last call gentlemen and ladies. Please finish your drinks and move along, you know where. Thank you for your patronage.
posted by Cranberry at 12:01 AM on September 23, 2005

I call potatoes
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:01 AM on September 23, 2005

I call the management. Isn't this page supposed to be closed?
posted by Cranberry at 1:16 PM on September 23, 2005

I'll see you there. Thanks for the sandwich. Walking makes me hungry.
posted by raedyn at 3:59 PM on September 23, 2005

We've got about 90 minutes left, I think.
posted by kenko at 4:42 PM on September 23, 2005

posted by If I Had An Anus at 5:34 PM on September 23, 2005

Interesting.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:13 PM on September 23, 2005

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