If you hate it so much, why are you here? November 10, 2005 12:04 PM   Subscribe

If you hate it so much, why are you here? (1, 2, 3, 4)
posted by Optimus Chyme to Etiquette/Policy at 12:04 PM (297 comments total)

Four threads, four trolls, no contributions. Bad form.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:05 PM on November 10, 2005


Oh man, are people keeping track of crap posts now, because I think we're all fucked if that's the case. I am not the biggest Dios fan in the world, but this is a pretty lame call out.
posted by chunking express at 12:07 PM on November 10, 2005


One stupid callout.
posted by mischief at 12:08 PM on November 10, 2005


Hey, anybody figure out what that little exclamation point by the date line is for yet?
posted by Pollomacho at 12:09 PM on November 10, 2005


Methinks this flying stick might be a boomerang....
posted by nevercalm at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2005


Why is it a bad callout? Because the big D and I don't get along? Can you really tell me that these are good comments?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:10 PM on November 10, 2005


Okay, so the new protocol is: no matter how desperately someone trolls the site, just flag it, and never mention it in any context whatsoever? You got it, then, my bad.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:11 PM on November 10, 2005


Wait, so all those other call-outs of people posting the same crap post in multiple threads weren't good call-outs, either? Errrr...
posted by hototogisu at 12:11 PM on November 10, 2005


Not a stupid callout. He said he'd reform and he didn't. Rothko has, mostly.
posted by By The Grace of God at 12:12 PM on November 10, 2005


Hooray! Good callout. We should be allowed to vote on these things. I think the little exclamation point is supposed to signify the game of baseball. It played an important role in the development of MetaFilter.
posted by panoptican at 12:12 PM on November 10, 2005


Dios has had some great contributions over the past few weeks, but these were not it. The first three were uncalled for. Number 4, however, seems justified to me. The post itself was quite trollish so one would expect trollish comments.
posted by caddis at 12:13 PM on November 10, 2005


I was wondering when metatalk would get around to discussing Dios.

It's such an important topic, I can't belive it hasn't been discussed before!
posted by delmoi at 12:13 PM on November 10, 2005


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, while the posts may not contribute much, they also don't derail the threads into flaming trainwreaks the way his comments used too.
posted by delmoi at 12:15 PM on November 10, 2005


Those aren't trolls, they're snarky comments that say "I think this FPP sucks".

More generally, why do people stay in a place that they hate?

Because they didn't always hate it, and they think they can change it.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:17 PM on November 10, 2005


Those aren't trolls, they're snarky comments that say "I think this FPP sucks".

Is it appropriate for someone to post that in every thread he or she doesn't like?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:23 PM on November 10, 2005


Is it inappropriate for someone to post that sentiment at all?
posted by 23skidoo at 12:27 PM on November 10, 2005


Dear Optimus:

I am sorry to hear about the sand in your vagina. I hear that douching can help.
posted by klangklangston at 12:30 PM on November 10, 2005


What 23skidoo said.

The threads over the last 48 hours have been, for the most part, absolutely shitty.

There have been some good threads recently where I have had many nice substantive discussions, but the last 48 hours have been horrible.

We had a double post (and not the only double post from yesterday to miracuously survive on the front page despite being flagged) to something which was crappy the first time it was posted that consisted of an asinine argument about how Religion is evil---a topic which apparently hasn't been discussed enough on this website, because we had another post the same day that Chrisitians are crazy. Add that to the 4-5 posts on torture we were treated with. And then just now, we have a nice thread about how Americans are stupid.

The threads have been crap. It is extremely difficult to find anything of substance on the front page.

How many times do we need to have posts about religion that permit people to flex their atheist credentials and talk down to people of faith? It's never anything new, just the same old insipid comments.

How many times do we need to have threads about how torture is bad? I'm pretty sure the grounds have been staked on that front, but apparently we needed four threads yesterday to discuss it more.

How many times do we need posts decrying the end of America as we know it? Apparently that topic has been beaten to death enough, because we are treated to a nice polemic about how Americans are stupid.

And whats crappy is that the Links have been weak one-source polemics. But, oddly, that doesn't matter because people's opinions espoused have very little to do with the links since the links aren't presenting anything new anyhow. Instead, what we have is just a pretextual reason to restart an already beaten down argument.

Why don't we just cut through the chase and post automatically everyday:
Open Thread on the Problem with Christians
Open Thread on the Evil of Torture
Open Thread on the Problem with America/Bush, etc.

Have my comments linked above been not very helpful substantively? I guess not. But honestly, what the heck was there to discuss in those threads anyhow? The same worn out dispute over and over and over again?
posted by dios at 12:30 PM on November 10, 2005


You people did this to him! You pushed him over the edge! You made him do this! You made him become the thing he hates most! Dios bears no responsibility! It's all your fault! Now you'll have to deal with it! I! Blame! You! Metafilter!

J'ACCUSE METAFILTER!

Hey, anybody figure out what that little exclamation point by the date line is for yet?


Dios hasn't! That's your fault too!
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:30 PM on November 10, 2005


(Sorry about typos)
posted by dios at 12:31 PM on November 10, 2005


wheee another Dios call out.

So, what is the goal of this call out? Do you want him to stop making throwaway comments, to be banned, timed out?

Because, 1. stopping everyone from making stupid throwaway comments is impossible, 2. This is a weak case for banning, no clear guidelines where broken, afaik, 3. a time out: see #2

Sorry, it _seems_ this is just a personal call out. glancing through your comment history you have A LOT of comments that are reactionary, against various peoples. And while I may agree in spirit in practice consider stop taking their bait, might make life a little more enjoyable.

Why is this so personal?
posted by edgeways at 12:31 PM on November 10, 2005


I was walking one of the dogs today, and as we passed the bank the teller spoke through the microphone at me and the dog.

"Does your dog want a treat? *squawk*"

"Yes, I'm sure she would, thank you" I shouted back, unable to tell if he could hear me that far away from where the cars usually pull through. I picked up the dog and carried her to the window where the teller was. The drawer below the window opened and there was a little doggie biscuit! One of those all-natural fresh breath ones... and man, can this dog use one of those!

At first I tried to let the dog grab the biscuit herself, but I realised pretty quickly that her head isn't that small and I didn't wntt to hurt her. So I picked the biscuit out of the drawer, waved at the nice bank teller, and walked the dog over to a patch of grass. I made her "sit" and "shake" (no free lunch with me) before giving her the goodie. Of course the dog fucking freaked out for an unexpected and unusual treat!

I thought it was pretty cool.
posted by terrapin at 12:31 PM on November 10, 2005


That is awesome. Matt, please delete every other comment in this thread and close it now.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:33 PM on November 10, 2005


So, why do you post in them Dios?
posted by edgeways at 12:34 PM on November 10, 2005


Maybe dios is a masochist, and we get him off?
posted by crunchland at 12:34 PM on November 10, 2005


oh, and what dios said above.
posted by terrapin at 12:34 PM on November 10, 2005


dios, why not post a few threads yourself, talking about more interesting subjects?
posted by russilwvong at 12:35 PM on November 10, 2005


More generally, why do people stay in a place that they hate?

to break everybody's else's balls, of course.
how do you say, "pissing in the punch bowl"?

It is extremely difficult to find anything of substance on the front page.

Heh.
posted by matteo at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2005


dios, why not post a few threads yourself, talking about more interesting subjects?

Yeah, no shit. Its a community weblog. You're the community. Get to it.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2005


I have posted when I found things I thought were interesting. I'm not going to force a thread out there, and I don't really have anything right now. I suppose I could manufacture some thread and just add to the list of contrived posts that don't offer anything "new and interesting that other people haven't seen."
posted by dios at 12:42 PM on November 10, 2005


(Sorry about typos)

Don't worry about it, dios, it's apparently not your fault.

I kid, actually, though I suppose dios went about in a rather shitty, sorta childish way, what he did was no worse than any of the other throwaway snarks. The threads have been exceptionally repetitive polemics. I'm not giving dios any gold stars for his behavior in those threads, but I'm not giving any out for the threads in general either.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:42 PM on November 10, 2005


If you insist on dignifying this (ironic) nonsense with a reply, dios, I would have suggested something more along the lines of: "<cough>PeopleInGlassHouses...</cough>"
posted by cribcage at 12:42 PM on November 10, 2005


The threads over the last 48 hours have been, for the most part, absolutely shitty.

There have been some good threads recently where I have had many nice substantive discussions, but the last 48 hours have been horrible.


Wow, that's so bizzare. I thought the posts yesterday were great. So good I thought about posting a MeTa thread about how good they were. The threads today also had some good stuff.
posted by delmoi at 12:42 PM on November 10, 2005


Dammit Dios...you're in every thread oversimplifying the discussion and making every thread about it's participants rather than the thread topic.

You practically derailed the Jim Wallis thread and I was about to rip away, but decided to just note my disdain for your threadjacking and get back to discussing the topic.

I came here for the higher level of discourse, carried out among intelligent people, often with differing views and experiences. And last week, I actually engaged in some of that intelligent debate with you, in a thread about the Alito appointment (an area where it seems you have real-life expertise.)

You posses a first class intellect, capable of fine distinctions, I've seen it. So how then does you conflate Wallis with "the problem with Christianity", or a discussion of alarming trends in the trend towards the lowest common denominator with "Americans are stupid and fat"?

I find it hard to believe you're incapable of these distinctions. It's the intellectual equivalent of the idiotic argument that says "if you don't support the war, you hate the troops. You hate America." Not so.

In any case, I don't know what you think you're accomplishing but it's not adding anything to the discussion, it's derailing it or making marginal points at best. It's argumentative.

You're conducting argument for it's own sake, just laying bait in every thread OC listed up there. Sadly, people are taking it. Why don't you make a counter-argument, instead of this transparent tactic? You could point out where you think Wallis is wrong, instead of dismissing the whole discussion as "the problem with Christians" which is a strawman, and based on your strawman say it discredits the whole site?

I don't come to MeFi for the Dios show. Don't turn it into Fark. If I wanted to hear people debating things on such a base level as "religion of peace!!!1!" I could just re-up over there.
posted by edverb at 12:43 PM on November 10, 2005


Oh, I'm not saying all have been bad, just seems the political/religious threads are really stuck in a spiral here in the last couple days. The xylothek thing was cool for example...
posted by Pollomacho at 12:44 PM on November 10, 2005


(and not the only double post from yesterday to miracuously survive on the front page despite being flagged)

I hope you're not referring to the Morning Musume/lizard video. Because that was a thing of beauty.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2005


I am sorry to hear about the sand in your vagina. I hear that douching can help.
posted by klangklangston at 12:30 PM PST on November 10


That is a great post. You should print it out and show it to all your friends because it is a major-league burn. Oh man, "sand in your vagina." That is good stuff.

The threads have been crap. It is extremely difficult to find anything of substance on the front page.
psted by dios


Well, that sucks, and I'm sorry to hear that. There have been a bunch of threads that we agree are sub-par, but that's no reason to make them even worse.

So, what is the goal of this call out? Do you want him to stop making throwaway comments, to be banned, timed out?
posted by edgeways at 12:31 PM PST on November 10


In order: yes, no, no.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:45 PM on November 10, 2005


Oh, but this is a really good thread, if you actually bother to read it. Just a heads-up.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:48 PM on November 10, 2005


Posting a thread is a little like taking a shit:

Some people are regular (or eat a lot of fiber) and make good posts every few days.

Some people have diarrhea. They post every damn thing they come across, every stupid op-ed. Runny bastards.

Still others are constipated. They seldom run across new material that would be good for the community, or just don't have the time to build a solid post, and so, instead of shitting all over, they don't post.

Do we really want to force Dios to take a dump on metafilter? I don't think so. Sooner or later, it'll happen.
posted by graventy at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2005


Dios is still new and improved, but he doesn't have to be perfect. This thread sucks.
posted by sciurus at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2005


Posting a thread is a little like taking a shit:

Clearly high-level discourse here, natch.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:51 PM on November 10, 2005


edverb, I'd be more than happy to discuss something if it is a topic of substance.

"Is religion evil" is not a topic of substance. There is nothing to discuss there. "Americans are stupid" is not a topic of substance.

But the torture topic: what is there to discuss on that anymore? Within the last week we had an extremely long substantive discussion on this topic right here on Metafilter. Nothing changed since then, but we had 4 posts on it. How many times do we need to have the same argument? To the extent there is something substantive to discuss, its already been done. How many times do we need to have the discussion? (How many times in one day?)

I respect your point regarding the Wallis thread, and I suppose I should not paint it with the same brush as the "Is religion evil" thread. But therein lies part of the problem: we have had so many repetitive "christians are stupid evil poopyhead threads" that I was too quick in painting one that wasn't that way with the same brush. (Mind you, there were plenty of comments in that thread which classify for that treatment; but you are right there was some good discussion).

So don't act as if I am opposed to substantive dialogue: you can see for yourself that I am.

But the last 48 hours have been ridiculous, and I do not look forward to reptitition of these threads over and over and over and over again. And here is my point: there are clearly threads that should have been deleted. Whether it be the two clear double posts from yesterday, or the single link polemics. There should have been some deletions. But there weren't. And that is what concerns me. When we don't have moderation and deletion of these kind of threads doesn't happen, there is a tacit indication that they are acceptable. And woe be us all if these kind of threads become even more acceptable.
posted by dios at 12:53 PM on November 10, 2005


If you hate it so much, why [is he] here?

Sadism? Masochism? Sado-masochism?

I don't think we picked a safeword yet. The safeword for this scene is "Fuck Zell Miller", ok?


Seriously, the "Shut up and post something good, already! Otherwise quit your bitching!" solution has already been offered to dios something on the order of dozens of times.

I wish he'd take it. If you've come to a dance party, bitch about the dancing, but don't dance yourself, what the fuck is the point?
posted by loquacious at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2005


I hope you're not referring to the Morning Musume/lizard video. Because that was a thing of beauty.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:45 PM PST on November 10


No. That is fine. I was referring to the "Christians are evil" double post and the "Americans are possibly killing people with chemical weapons in Iraq" double post. Both are suspect posts in the first instance which somehow were permitted to be remain even as double posts.
posted by dios at 12:55 PM on November 10, 2005


I QUIT

Signed,
The Self-Policing Community
posted by jenovus at 12:56 PM on November 10, 2005


Ah, well. Ask him nicely. It has a better chance of working then a public conflagration.

Here it goes like this.

{privet email}
____________
Dios: I realize that there have been several FPPs lately that you disagree with or find sub-par. I know that in in the past there have been several threads in which you make very interesting points even if I do not always agree with them and I value that.
If you do think a post is not worth the posting would you consider not snarking in the thread? Some people do find it beneficial, even if you do not. And I find it frustrating having the flow of a conversation disrupted with comments that may derail the thread.

This is not meant in any manner other than sincerely.

thank you.
___________

Now, this may or may not work. (shrug) But, in my experience a kindly worded personal approach is more likely to work then this type of forum.

Advice may be useless or disregarded
posted by edgeways at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2005


Yeah, no shit. Its a community weblog. You're the community. Get to it.

Oh sure, more links, that's what we need. More meta, less filter.
posted by justgary at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2005


I'm still wondering whose sockpuppet Optimus Chyme is.
posted by Krrrlson at 1:03 PM on November 10, 2005


It's intresting how dios thinks threads are 'terrible' if he disagrees with the premise. As if pissing him off were the sole metric for FPP quality.
posted by delmoi at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2005


As if anyone else had a more objective metric.
posted by darukaru at 1:14 PM on November 10, 2005


Diosfilter. Well I for one am sick of dios, dios, dios everywhere.
posted by Joeforking at 1:16 PM on November 10, 2005


See, this just plays into my proposition that dios is an extremely skillful troll. He comes here to fight, about just about anything. No new topics means no new fights. I don't think he particularly cares about the quality of what's on MetaFilter. Rather, I think he's just bored.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:19 PM on November 10, 2005


"Americans are stupid" is not a topic of substance.

If you're talking about the Idiot America thread...I dispute that premise.

The linked article says no such thing. Your characterization of it is (in my opinion) is overly simplified and argumentative.

I can see reasons why you may think the post lacks quality...single link, editorializing, etc. I think you'd have a valid argument there. But it doesn't say "Americans are stupid"...that's your strawman, and invalid.

You can flag, you can take it to MetaTalk...do you you really have to crap on the thread itself? Look, there are two possibilities for the thread:

If it's destined for the sh*tpile, then what's the point of posting in it to say so? You've wasted your time posting in a deleted thread.

If it stays, you've just crapped all over a thread, and may derail good discussion (as was the case in the Wallis thread.)

Either way, I think your posts (not all of them, but the ones being called out) are lose-lose-lose...for MeFi, for the subscribers, and for yourself.

Nothing personal...I just think it's bad all around when there are better options.
posted by edverb at 1:21 PM on November 10, 2005


hi dios
posted by moift at 1:22 PM on November 10, 2005


Why don't we just cut through the chase and post automatically everyday:
Open Thread on the Problem with Christians
Open Thread on the Evil of Torture
Open Thread on the Problem with America/Bush, etc.


Well, if these things weren't problems everyday, we wouldn't need to post them everyday. If christians weren't a problem in many different ways, we wouldn't have posts about all the different ways they are a problem. Double-posts get taken care of. But really, it's like you're saying that two posts on science in one day constitute a double post.
posted by troybob at 1:28 PM on November 10, 2005


You do realise this is what you live for? A bitch about how brilliant you are and how terrible everyone else is? Matafilter would be a little dull if it didn't erupt into acrimony every once in a while...
posted by londonmark at 1:34 PM on November 10, 2005


FUCK ZELL MILLER!
posted by erebora at 1:34 PM on November 10, 2005


edverb: I understand your point, and I don't disagree with it if it was a post isolation. But given the whole, and the disturbing trend I referenced in my comment above, I feel it can't be read in isolation.


hi dios
posted by moift at 1:22 PM PST on November 10

hi moift.
tell your mom i said hi too. *wink*

Well, if these things weren't problems everyday, we wouldn't need to post them everyday. If christians weren't a problem in many different ways, we wouldn't have posts about all the different ways they are a problem. posted by troybob at 1:28 PM PST on November 10

So, as long as you perceive it to be a problem, the rest of us have to sift through your outrage on a daily basis?

Double-posts get taken care of.
Really? There were two egregious ones yesterday (and that's not including the Japanese TV show one, which I found funny and don't consider a double post)

But really, it's like you're saying that two posts on science in one day constitute a double post.
The posts are the same topic, they should be in the same thread. We don't need 4 torture threads a day.
posted by dios at 1:35 PM on November 10, 2005


dios: obviously you're tastes are diffrent the majority of metafilter users, who are you to say what is and isn't OK?
posted by delmoi at 1:38 PM on November 10, 2005


We don't need 4 torture threads a day.
posted by dios at 1:35 PM PST on November 10


I'm pretty sure torture itself is a bigger problem than threads about torture, to be honest.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:44 PM on November 10, 2005


Yep. Not NEARLY enough outrage on the torture thing.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:47 PM on November 10, 2005


the rest of us have to sift through your outrage on a daily basis?

i'm more amenable to reading the subject of others' outrage when it is an actual topic of discussion than to reading merely outrage over the fact that it is being discussed in the first place. Please don't tell us what we need; the community has some control here, and thus overkill is dealt with in accordance with the community's desires. You've proven yourself a poor arbiter time and again, so few are rushing to put the decision in your hands.
posted by troybob at 1:51 PM on November 10, 2005


Optimus Chyme, he doesn't hate the site. He hates you.

He has a point.

I hate you too.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:54 PM on November 10, 2005


I don't think we need 4 torture threads a day either, but as long as the opposition to it only comes from highly politics-focused, minority-viewpoint posters, nothing's ever going to happen with it, because expressing that opinion becomes politically charged. Personally I wish most of the moderation efforts on the blue part of the site were spent cleaning up the front page and less on the comments, on the theory that stricter control of the links would filter down to the rest of the site. It's not as though there aren't plenty of other places on the internet devoted to fighting about politics all day, every day. (Hell, I ever read a bunch of 'em.)
posted by furiousthought at 1:57 PM on November 10, 2005


dios is right about the double posting of torture threads. That should have all stayed in one thread. At least wait until it rolls off the front page before starting a new one. The New Yorker article was already posted in the Karpinski thread when it got its own FPP and the torture is prohibited FPP to TPM deserved to go into the Karpinski post as well. The white phosphorous stuff got triple posted.
posted by caddis at 1:58 PM on November 10, 2005


Well, if these things weren't problems everyday, we wouldn't need to post them everyday.

So where's the daily thread on terrorism? Abuse of women in Middle Eastern nations? Prison rape? Illegal immigration? The relentless and dangerous increase in entropy?
posted by Krrrlson at 1:58 PM on November 10, 2005


hey, i never said they were the only everyday problems...if you've got it, bring it
posted by troybob at 2:03 PM on November 10, 2005


So where's the daily thread on terrorism?

Looking at the big picture, terrorism isn't very dangerous. If the number of FPPs was correlated to a problem's severity, we'd be reading about heart disease, HIV, and strokes all goddamn day.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:04 PM on November 10, 2005


Remember, only you can prevent forest fires!
posted by crunchland at 2:12 PM on November 10, 2005


eyeball kid, I, but, but--what about the rest of us?
posted by cortex at 2:16 PM on November 10, 2005


So, instead of posting pro-torture threads on the front page, we put them here in MetaTalk instead.

< montgomery burns> Excellent < /montgomery burns>
posted by blue_beetle at 2:18 PM on November 10, 2005


Anyway , i'm at college and i go to see this lassie i like and she's busy drawing a life study and says she'll come down later .

She comes down and we start talking and she's brought her life study with her.



For the first time in my life i am standing chatting up a woman with a guide dog.
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:25 PM on November 10, 2005


?
posted by caddis at 2:28 PM on November 10, 2005


Thanks. I was wondering when Metafilter was going to discuss Dios. It's such an important topic that I can't believe we haven't brought it up before.
posted by boo_radley at 2:29 PM on November 10, 2005


What a fucking annoying callout. It's pure peer-pressure, nothing more or less. Any one of dozens of people, certainly me (because for the most part I feel the same way as dios), could have made those snarky comments and not been called out on meta because our politics are correct. "Why don't you leave?" I didn't know we had a designated high-school-club-master-at-arms whose job it was to get rid of the uncool kids, but I guess Optimus Chyme is that person. Well, fuck you, Chyme.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2005


could have made those snarky comments and not been called out on meta because our politics are correct

Try it and see.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:39 PM on November 10, 2005


I think I like the verbose EB better than the profane EB.
posted by caddis at 2:42 PM on November 10, 2005


I think I like the verbose EB better than the profane EB.

I like them both.
posted by loquax at 2:44 PM on November 10, 2005


The posts are the same topic, they should be in the same thread. We don't need 4 torture threads a day.

You know what, dios has a point here (I have no personal enmity towards him so can admit this!). The links may be fresh, but the discussion is often tired out. In which case, I tend to read the linked articles and then move on to a topic I haven't posted a comment on recently, or already talked to death down the pub... it's not that hard to avoid clicking the link to the comments, as folk may well have mentioned on Meta before.

But then sometimes good comes of these repeated topics - this religion thread was notable for an almost complete lack of 'People who belive in God are big mongs' chat, thanks in part to JimBob relating his views on and experience of Christianity.

So, er, yeah. I think repetition is bad. Unless it's good.
posted by jack_mo at 2:45 PM on November 10, 2005


If the number of FPPs was correlated to a problem's severity, we'd be reading about heart disease, HIV, and strokes all goddamn day.

Thank you for understanding my point.


Profane EB is refreshing sometimes.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:46 PM on November 10, 2005


If the callout had been phrased differently, say, "I don't think these comments are helpful", I still wouldn't have agreed with the callout but it wouldn't have pissed me off so much. But framed around a "why don't you leave"? That rubs me the wrong way.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:51 PM on November 10, 2005


I didn't know we had a designated high-school-club-master-at-arms whose job it was to get rid of the uncool kids.

You didn't?

posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:57 PM on November 10, 2005


Try it and see.

I agree. try, EB.


I think I like the verbose EB better than the profane EB.

at least he's more to the point.
posted by matteo at 2:59 PM on November 10, 2005


Any one of dozens of people ... could have made those snarky comments and not been called out on meta because our politics are correct.

I wish people would stop acting like the only possible reason to dislike dios is because of "his politics." Him posting inane one-liners in every thread he doesn't approve of has nothing to do with politics. I don't like him because I think he's obnoxious, arrogant, and makes way too much noise. I wouldn't vote for the guy to get banned, but I sure wish he'd go away.
posted by ludwig_van at 3:06 PM on November 10, 2005


If OC didn't have a hardon for dios this callout would not exist.
posted by cortex at 3:09 PM on November 10, 2005


"Why don't you leave?"

Did I miss something, because I didn't see this stated anywhere. The question in the posting here is "Why are you here?" Is this something that showed up in another thread, or just dishonest reframing?

Anyway the original question is a legitimate question. dios says:

Have my comments linked above been not very helpful substantively? I guess not. But honestly, what the heck was there to discuss in those threads anyhow?

that dios feels the necessity to post repeatedly in a topic where he feels there is nothing to discuss anyhow, what is he doing here?
posted by troybob at 3:10 PM on November 10, 2005


*continues flogging erebora mercilessly*
posted by loquacious at 3:13 PM on November 10, 2005


which threads were doubles? me and jessamyn were both traveling yesterday and I'm lost in the deluge of new posts.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:16 PM on November 10, 2005


I don't think that is comparable, Ogre Lawless. Adamgreenfield was stalking me. And he still is, outside of metafilter.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:26 PM on November 10, 2005


mathowie: that is understandable.

The double threads are as follows:
Does Religion Make People Evil?
US using White Phosphorous in Iraq (that's a triple I think)

And I seem to recall another one, but those two for sure.

There are a couple other ones that are just single-link op/eds on topics that have already been covered on this website... which I think we used to delete on principle.
posted by dios at 3:26 PM on November 10, 2005


yeah, so essentially anything that says 'christianity is bad' in more than one topic, or 'torture is bad' in more than one topic: double post.
posted by troybob at 3:33 PM on November 10, 2005


which I think we used to delete on principle

I guess that's the royal we.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 3:37 PM on November 10, 2005


Is that the royal "we"?

Honestly, I hope newish users and/or lurkers are reading this. They'll realize that the best way to become a mefi celeb is to act like a complete asshole, then offer a fake promise of repentance. Then, decent comments coupled with lame-ass derails ("Chicken Little! Get it! It's a new movie!") turn you into Kurt f'in Godel.

Dios, please don't assume that eveyone except you is some KOS-fed android who can't think for herself. Snark away, but don't cross the line of constantly trying to regulate threads you disagree with. If you're such a great lawyer, shouldn't you be lawyering or something, at least a few hours a day?

I'm going to watch the Paris racing thing again, because it was rad.
posted by bardic at 3:39 PM on November 10, 2005


Damn you, Armitage.
posted by bardic at 3:40 PM on November 10, 2005


I think he meant to say "which I think you used to delete on principle", unless dios is really a sock puppet for mathowie or jessamyn.

o.O

There's an absolute brain-twister of a thought. I'm going to go hide under my bed now. Excuse me.
posted by loquacious at 3:43 PM on November 10, 2005


"single-link op/eds"

That's my main beef with several posts that have slipped through lately, and yes, dios is correct in that single-link op-eds used to be strongly discouraged - but like every other guideline here it's always up for a reinterpretation depending on subject matter, who posted it, what time Matt got up in the morning, etc.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:48 PM on November 10, 2005


well, i'm sure dios manages to call out all the single-link op-eds and not just the ones reflecting opinions he routinely tries to shout down, so that's only fair...
posted by troybob at 3:51 PM on November 10, 2005


Him posting inane one-liners in every thread

as opposed to ane one liners?
posted by jonmc at 3:51 PM on November 10, 2005


well, i'm sure dios manages to call out all the single-link op-eds and not just the ones reflecting opinions he routinely tries to shout down, so that's only fair...

Just as I am sure Optimus Chyme manages to call out every noisemaker on Metafilter.
posted by Krrrlson at 3:54 PM on November 10, 2005


Well, if these things weren't problems everyday, we wouldn't need to post them everyday.

yeah, so essentially anything that says 'christianity is bad' in more than one topic, or 'torture is bad' in more than one topic: double post.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how the criteria implicit here jibe with "best of the Web."

"Here's some fact/event you MUST KNOW ABOUT!" -- not best of the Web.

"Here's some news/opinion shoveled into an HTML template" -- not best of the Web.

"Man's inhumanity to man proved once again, and unless we do something about it mankind is doomed!" -- not best of the Web.

"Hey, look at this cool page that presents something new and interesting that wouldn't be possible in another medium" -- potentially best of the Web.
posted by macrone at 3:56 PM on November 10, 2005


delmoi wins in 12
posted by scarabic at 3:57 PM on November 10, 2005


holy fucking lol
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:00 PM on November 10, 2005


Yes there were doubles. However, now that these links have been up for a day or so it probably doesn't pay to delete them as a discussion has already taken place. Prunings are best done early.
posted by caddis at 4:03 PM on November 10, 2005


Who is this dios you all keep talking about?
posted by fenriq at 4:06 PM on November 10, 2005


your blissful ignorance leaves me longing for a user-level ignore feature!
posted by troybob at 4:27 PM on November 10, 2005


I think dios is going all Scott McClellan on us.
posted by clevershark at 4:33 PM on November 10, 2005


"Hey, look at this cool page that presents something new and interesting that wouldn't be possible in another medium" -- potentially best of the Web.

So we're /. now?

Wait a sec. Intel Roadmap Update: The Art of Naming Processors

That's not "Stuff That Matters"!!!!
posted by dreamsign at 4:43 PM on November 10, 2005


I am sorry to hear about the sand in your vagina. I hear that douching can help.

See, when I first read this, I thought it said "hand" instead of "sand." And then I thought, "I don't think douching would do a thing for that at all."

Then I wondered if that's really the correct spelling of "douching."

And then I got distracted and lost my train of thought.
posted by halcyon_daze at 4:46 PM on November 10, 2005


What macrone said. MetaFilter is not savetheworld.com, and it's incredibly tiresome that some members think it is. The blue is mostly noise to me these days.

I'm reading the web, full-time, for probably at least ten hours a day. At last three-quarters of that time is spent on political and current event news. I almost never see anything here that I haven't seen first elsewhere. I'm positive that I'm more aware of this stuff than most of the people who post these kinds of things at metafilter. The one thing you can get at mefi that you can't get by merely reading about and keeping up with this stuff is the mutual back-slapping, self-righteous, and self-congratulatory performance that are most of these posts and the resulting comments.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:09 PM on November 10, 2005


You must have missed that link that ogre lawless posted, huh Senor Pot?
posted by troybob at 5:16 PM on November 10, 2005


I'm reading the web, full-time, for probably at least ten hours a day.

Good God man, get a life! There is a real world out there beyond the electrons. You are obviously a thoughtful and intelligent person. Find some others like yourself and enjoy existence.
posted by caddis at 5:17 PM on November 10, 2005


My big problem with dios is that he's a self-righteous holier-than-though self-appointed defender-of-the-honor of Teh Blue. (Or AMERICA. Or something. I'm not sure what.)

If THE BLUE is so freaking great, it won't need defenders -- either in the person of dios, or from dios. And has anyone mentioned that exclamation-point thingy, yet?
posted by lodurr at 5:29 PM on November 10, 2005


"You must have missed that link that ogre lawless posted, huh Senor Pot?"

You must have missed my response.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:39 PM on November 10, 2005


"Good God man, get a life!""

Because of my limited mobility, I think I'm probably experiencing more than I would without the net. But it's true I nevertheless could get out more. Anyway, I don't think it's precisely true to say that I'm on the web as much as I am purely by choice. It's more complicated than that, as I'm sure it is with a large number of other people, as well.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:45 PM on November 10, 2005


SLAM! i did....skulks away
posted by troybob at 5:47 PM on November 10, 2005


I'm sure he's loving this.
posted by fire&wings at 5:56 PM on November 10, 2005


If THE BLUE is so freaking great, it won't need defenders

Minor flaw in this logic. See the whole "self-policing" thing mentioned in one of the rotating homepage logos.

The Blue doesn't really need dios one way or the other. But I have said many times that what we "REALLY NEED" is not a consideration in what we should allow or approve of. Spank dios if you feel like influencing him toward shutting up. But my general impression is that he likes being rude, considers himself some kind of "maverick," and enjoys his "celebrity" status here. Wagging fingers at him is never going to influence him. He thinks his mission is to shake up all you complacent fools.

What he REALLY doesn't need is callouts. It's like giving a misbehaven child the attention he's seeking. Since he's not going to get the rod (bannination), I advise ignoring him (or scathing his logic in short form wherever possible then quickly moving on).

Optimus Chyme calling out dios, though? That's like the blind yelling at the deaf.
posted by scarabic at 5:59 PM on November 10, 2005


My big problem with dios is that he's a self-righteous holier-than-though self-appointed defender-of-the-honor of Teh Blue. (Or AMERICA. Or something. I'm not sure what.)

Honest question: do you have a problem with every "self-righteous holier-than-though self-appointed defender-of-the-honor of" [fill in the blank] or is it just him? 'Cause we got more than a few of those.

And what EB said about the savetheworld.com thing.
posted by Cyrano at 6:04 PM on November 10, 2005


sadly, this all dios, all the time shit will eventually lead to well respected members being fed up and leaving Metafilter. and history repeats itself yet again.
posted by mr.marx at 6:10 PM on November 10, 2005


MetaTalk: Giving a misbehaven child the attention he's seeking.
or
MetaTalk: Spank dios if you feel like.
or
MetaTalk: The blind yelling at the deaf.


Sorry. Ignore me. I'm high on curry, cardamom and other exotic spices, and feeling fat and sassy.

MetaTalk: Feeling fat and sassy!

Spank me if you feel like.
posted by loquacious at 6:13 PM on November 10, 2005


sadly, this all dios, all the time shit will eventually lead to well respected members being fed up and leaving Metafilter.

Whoever did you mean?
posted by Krrrlson at 6:22 PM on November 10, 2005


all the time shit will eventually lead to well respected members being fed up and leaving Metafilter. and history repeats itself yet again.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Maybe Matt could setup a fuckoffmemberIdontlike.metafilter.com where we could all post our fuck-off wishlists! That would be swell!

Anyone who is so worked up by dios, who with all his faults, is far away from the worst [whatever goddamn moderate-to-heavy disagreement with your World View seems to be unforgivable to you today member] (yes, today is brackets day at my place!!!) that we've ever seen here... Well, good fucking riddance. Nobody worth your respect leaves over one member (although we've probably lost some good ones over a pattern of nastiness, but dios himself does not a pattern make, ya' know?)
posted by Cyrano at 6:30 PM on November 10, 2005


I can't believe I read this whole thread.

Jon-o: Feeling much less sassy.
posted by Jon-o at 7:11 PM on November 10, 2005


"That is a great post. You should print it out and show it to all your friends because it is a major-league burn. Oh man, "sand in your vagina." That is good stuff."

Well, since you seem so hard-up for good lines, I'll let you have it. You don't even have to credit me. You could use it, since your reply was Playskool's My First Sarcasm. I've got another hint for your zingers: Jerkstore. Look into it. It kills.

"Well, if these things weren't problems everyday, we wouldn't need to post them everyday."

YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE? TORTUREWARREPUBLICANSBARRISTASCOMMUNISTSQUEERSMIDGETSFRANCOPHONESARABSHOPHEADSSISSIESCOLDPLAYCALLOUTSPOODLESFLOURESCENTLIGHTSSCHWEPPERVESENCEBARTLES&JAMESE.T.VH1WOMEN'SRIGHTSTHEFAINTAFTERTASTEOFVOMITSATURDAYNIGHTLIVEJOHNLEGUEZAMOPROZACELIWHITNEYTHEWHIGPARTYMARTIANNIGGERSKENNYCHINSTRAPSPITHAIRSTRAPONSQUONSARPRINCE'SLATERWORKNEOPLATONISMLEOSTRAUSSPENNYARCADEYOURBLOGTHECUBANMISSILECRISISJSTORACOUTLETSTINFOILMARKDAVIDCHAPMANANDYOURGENERALCOMMENTINGSTYLE!
posted by klangklangston at 7:26 PM on November 10, 2005


OK. At dios's request Matt has now deleted the "Does Religion Make People Evil" post. I think it was terrible, mostly due to form and less due to substance, but was it really a double? Search is still broken, Google doesn't help, but was this in fact posted before? If not, should it go back up?
posted by caddis at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2005


And scrolling to the right.
posted by klangklangston at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2005


Caddis: Double in spirit but not in content.
posted by klangklangston at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2005


loquacious - you should come out to a BA meetup sometime. We'll smoke you out and you can cackle and make taglines out of everything we say. DaShiv will take pictures of the roof of your mouth, you can scribble mandalas on napkins, and we'll all have a wonderful time. Fressssssh! Invitation open!
posted by scarabic at 7:27 PM on November 10, 2005


If double, what was the original post?
posted by caddis at 7:30 PM on November 10, 2005


I came back to my post after a bit, and saw Dios at work. He was trying so desperately to derail. One line snarks, then inline images, then bigger ones...wow.

I could leap in, with flaming keyboard and smite the troll...

And then I laughed. And went on with my day.
posted by bitmage at 7:40 PM on November 10, 2005


(latest issue where we are getting fucked nine ways to Sunday)

(Wait two days)

"
But the last 48 hours have been ridiculous, and I do not look forward to reptitition of these threads over and over and over and over again. And here is my point: there are clearly threads that should have been deleted. Whether it be the two clear double posts from yesterday, or the single link polemics. There should have been some deletions. But there weren't. And that is what concerns me. When we don't have moderation and deletion of these kind of threads doesn't happen, there is a tacit indication that they are acceptable. And woe be us all if these kind of threads become even more acceptable."
posted by dios [!]

(Everyone else= WTF DOOD?!)
posted by Balisong at 8:01 PM on November 10, 2005


I guess this happens at all levels.
posted by Balisong at 8:10 PM on November 10, 2005


What's all this Metafilter: I for one, object to our TORTUREWARREPUBLICANSBARRISTASCOMMUNISTS- QUEERSMIDGETSFRANCOPHONESARABSHOPHEADSSISSIES- COLDPLAYCALLOUTSPOODLESFLOURESCENTLIGHTS- SCHWEPPERVESENCEBARTLES&JAMESE.T.VH1WOMEN'SRIGHTS- THEFAINTAFTERTASTEOFVOMITSATURDAYNIGHTLIVEJOHNLEGUEZAMO- PROZACELIWHITNEYTHEWHIGPARTYMARTIANNIGGERSKENNY- CHINSTRAPSPITHAIRSTRAPONSQUONSARPRINCE'SLATERWORK- NEOPLATONISMLEOSTRAUSSPENNYARCADEYOURBLOGTHECUBAN- MISSILECRISISJSTORACOUTLETSTINFOILMARKDAVIDCHAPMANAND- YOURGENERALCOMMENTINGSTYLE! Overlords, about?
posted by Balisong at 8:16 PM on November 10, 2005


Let it be known that you can get rid of a post you don't like if you bitch loud and long enough.
posted by clevershark at 8:24 PM on November 10, 2005


Shouldn't callouts be reserved for things like "egregious breaking of the rules" and not for things like "dios being dios?"
posted by afroblanca at 8:38 PM on November 10, 2005


If you hate it so much, why are you here?

just to piss you off. same as me!
posted by quonsar at 9:07 PM on November 10, 2005


MetaFilter is not savetheworld.com, and it's incredibly tiresome that some members think it is.

Halle-fucking-lujiah! And the problem only gets worse. A new visitor who sees the front page today would reasonably assume that that this site is MetaKos. And if they join up, it would be to participate in the leftist political blog that Metafilter has become.

A new visitor who dislikes discussing politics on the web, and would rather find a place where people share neat links, would reasonably assume that Metafilter was not the place for her or him, and move on.

(Not to defend Dios' purposeful derailing, which is shitty, though probably not with the call-out.)
posted by LarryC at 9:20 PM on November 10, 2005


what's a martian nigger?

for that matter, what's a kenny chinstrap?

finally, what's a quonsar?
posted by Hat Maui at 9:30 PM on November 10, 2005


Let's face it, no amount of torture/Bush/Christian posts on the blue are going to solve any single thing at all. It makes me laugh to see the segment here who think they are somehow accomplishing something by endlessly forking it over on the blue, preaching to the converted. It's online barroom waffle, all piss and wind. Worse, there's no beer.
posted by Joeforking at 9:32 PM on November 10, 2005


So mefi should be more like Fark?
posted by bardic at 9:51 PM on November 10, 2005


look, mom, look!! ... the spaghetti people are whipping each other senseless again!
posted by pyramid termite at 9:57 PM on November 10, 2005


Some consistency about deleting single-link op-eds would go much further than the current caprice.
posted by mischief at 10:11 PM on November 10, 2005


So mefi should be more like Fark?

Apparently many of our fine MeFi(FoFum)Friends think so.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:17 PM on November 10, 2005


GOD DAMN IT, I AM REALLY ANGRY NOW!!!... AGAIN!!!! dios saying (this is the first and last time I respond to anything dios posts) "we already have posts about torture, why cover old ground" is exactly the attitude of the Washington Press Core that has inhibited a real airing of the fucking truth about the false reasoning that took our country into a disastrous war (oh dear! it's not connected with any thing going on today so I guess we can't bring it up) .

Dios, you are an enormous Piece Of Shit, welcome to Flavor Country. Enjoy.
posted by Mr T at 10:25 PM on November 10, 2005


By the way, I am now listening to Les Baxter on the Hi Fi and it's really helping me unwind a little.
posted by Mr T at 10:32 PM on November 10, 2005


Yeah, ALLCAPS and multiple exclamation marks, capped off with calling another user an enormous piece of shit. That's what Metafilter should be all about. Nice one.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:18 PM on November 10, 2005


Hmmm , Feeling fat and sassy !
posted by sgt.serenity at 11:19 PM on November 10, 2005


stavros apparently pities the fool.
posted by Hat Maui at 11:30 PM on November 10, 2005


Be careful, before I make you MY wonder chicken!!
posted by Mr T at 11:35 PM on November 10, 2005


This is so pointless. Just ignore Dios if you don't like him -- it's only the response to him that allows the derail, usually.

Dios is a porcupine: not a troll. (At least I think: if he is a troll, he's damn good). He just can't manage to not be all cold and prickly when he reads MeFi and feels inclined to post on the threads in which he finds disagreement. He's way outside the average MeFi political view. Thus, his cold pricklies seem like incendiary bombs.

But they aren't. Just ignore them. If he engages in intelligent discussion (which he will do once in a while), talk back. Otherwise imagine his comment never existed, which is good advice with respect to the 4 stupid bits of noise linked to here.
posted by teece at 11:35 PM on November 10, 2005


Does anyone seriously believe that it's the political posts that differentiate MetaFilter from Fark?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:52 PM on November 10, 2005


I am very sassy.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:54 PM on November 10, 2005


Stavros, you are one of the posters here that I do like. Please don't take offense. I know that you are not a US resident so I will give you a little leeway. This stuff is very personal to some of us.

I have read literally hundreds of posts by look-at-me-i'm-a-lawyer. I never comment against or for him because it's a waste of time. What he said up-thread touched a nerve and I felt I needed to say something.

It's an important US holiday and I've been in my cups. U-S-A!!!!!!

Cheers!
posted by Mr T at 11:58 PM on November 10, 2005


No offense taken.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:12 AM on November 11, 2005


I never comment against or for him because it's a waste of time.

Been a tough month, huh?
posted by justgary at 12:48 AM on November 11, 2005


it amuses me to no end that we've reached the point where, if "dios" doesn't like it, the post gets killed.
posted by matteo at 1:45 AM on November 11, 2005


Does anyone seriously believe that it's the political posts that differentiate MetaFilter from Fark?

I don't know, I used to believe, back when I joined MeFi, that what differentiated MetaFilter from Fark was the presence of marginally smarter people.

see how wrong one can be
posted by matteo at 1:47 AM on November 11, 2005


Oh, don't sell yourself short. You've been much more wrong many times.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:11 AM on November 11, 2005


This is like watching some sort of twisted every-man-for-himself GoreFight Cage Match 2005 on late night tv.

In the middle stands Dios the Devil, unperturbed, throwing the occassional punch or kick at challengers.

Around him circles a group of excited attackers, working themselves up into a bloodlusted frenzy, throwing themselves across the arena in an effort to all simultaneously yank his heart from his rib cage.

Then there are dios defenders, if you could call them that, attacking dios's attackers? These guys are probably the most entertaining to watch, picking their targets carefully, moving in to strike, and swiftly fading back before the dios-mob can organize a defense.

Finally, mathowie and jessamyn are in the middle of the cage with their whistles and striped referee uniforms, standing silent and motionless; frozen in disgust or more likely lack of interest.

I'm not impressed though.
posted by onalark at 2:55 AM on November 11, 2005


EB: What a fucking annoying callout. It's pure peer-pressure, nothing more or less. Any one of dozens of people, certainly me (because for the most part I feel the same way as dios), could have made those snarky comments and not been called out on meta because our politics are correct. "Why don't you leave?" I didn't know we had a designated high-school-club-master-at-arms whose job it was to get rid of the uncool kids, but I guess Optimus Chyme is that person. Well, fuck you, Chyme.

and later:

What macrone said. MetaFilter is not savetheworld.com, and it's incredibly tiresome that some members think it is. The blue is mostly noise to me these days.

abso-fucking-lutely.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:03 AM on November 11, 2005


Optimus Chyme, you are an angry dumb fool for posting this. It's pretty clear dios wants to annoy people, he annoyed you, and then you sauntered over here to share your annoyance.

Whilst in the U.S., if I criticised some of domestic and foreign policies of the Government I would often hear the same kind of sentiments, "if you hate it so much why don't you leave?" This kind of thinking is infantilism at its best. You have stumbled over your own anger and fallen down the dios-hole. You and he deserve each other.
posted by gsb at 3:42 AM on November 11, 2005


scarabic: do you have a problem with every "self-righteous holier-than-though self-appointed defender-of-the-honor of" [fill in the blank] or is it just him?

Yes, I have that same problem with every '"self-righteous holier-than-though self-appointed defender-of-the-honor of" [fill in the blank]'. It's not just him.

He's worse than most, though, because he seems genuinely incapable of seeing the irony in (for example) anal-retentively defending the Integrity Of The Blue in a thread that devotes a lot of screen-inches to the concept of free thought.

I'll also say that I think the idea of closing/deleting threads that have developed good discussions is stupid. Just plain stupid. It's hidebound; it's the very real-world example of Emerson's foolish consistency. It's post facto application of some reflexive, template-driven approach to RULES AND ORDER to the detriment of discussion and civility. In the case of the religious discussion, we (meaning myself and several other people) had wrangled and come to a point where we were having an actual discussion -- which dios, of course, was not participating in, because he was more interested in getting results from his little tantrum about "double posting."

But then again, that's dios: The very personification of Emerson's foolish consistency. Like a lot of people here. That's mostly what TEH GRAY is all about, eh? Bitching like little statesmen about the fact that somebody else isn't complying with your idea of the RULES?

Put another way: Self policing is great. When it works. If you let it all be done by "little statesmen", what you end up with is... crap like this.
posted by lodurr at 4:26 AM on November 11, 2005


"Does anyone seriously believe that it's the political posts that differentiate MetaFilter from Fark?"

From what I read here about Fark, I am beginning to wonder if any difference exists.
posted by mischief at 4:29 AM on November 11, 2005


Teeter.

Totter.

Windmill.

Thud.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:30 AM on November 11, 2005


*applause*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:41 AM on November 11, 2005


Er... correct that to "Cyrano", not "Scarabic". My bad.
posted by lodurr at 5:23 AM on November 11, 2005


fuckoffmemberidontlike.metafilter.com
posted by OmieWise at 5:28 AM on November 11, 2005


whoa ... omiewise, how does THAT work?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:41 AM on November 11, 2005


"what's a martian nigger?"

"Could be I'm gonna shit the keys to Graceland tomorrow, but I kinda doubt that as well. Martian niggers, Kenny. You wait an' see."
posted by klangklangston at 5:44 AM on November 11, 2005


http://youareallabunchofweenies.metafilter.com/

heh ... i think i figured it out
posted by pyramid termite at 5:44 AM on November 11, 2005


Optimus Chyme, you are an angry dumb fool for posting this. It's pretty clear dios wants to annoy people, he annoyed you, and then you sauntered over here to share your annoyance.

I love how being upset or annoyed by terrible posts is a worse crime than making terrible posts. I have an idea: let's post some hilarious and "wacky" inline images and then we'll all feel better.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:53 AM on November 11, 2005


No; what's a worse crime is enabling what you claim to abhor. You and dios need one another. You'd be lost without him.
posted by lodurr at 5:55 AM on November 11, 2005


But the last 48 hours have been ridiculous, and I do not look forward to reptitition of these threads over and over and over and over again. And here is my point: there are clearly threads that should have been deleted.

So, on that note of what you consider technically bad posts, can it not be said that not taking the matter to MetaTalk but making snarky remarks within said posts is also bad form? Why is it that others can't do it, but you can?

Shouldn't callouts be reserved for things like "egregious breaking of the rules" and not for things like "dios being dios?"

Yes. If only dios himself would adhere to this standard, but since it doesn't suit him, he'll shit on other people who possibly break the standtards he does care about while, at the same time, convieniently ignoring the standards he doesn't care for, or at least, conveniently not holding himself to the same standard. But of course EB would argue that callouts are based on dios's politics. Which is utter nonsense.

Does anyone seriously believe that it's the political posts that differentiate MetaFilter from Fark?

No idea. Personally, I don't read Fark and I rarely see anything on the web before seeing it on Metafilter. So what eh?

Does anyone seriously belive that callouts occur because of a poster's politics, other than EB?
posted by juiceCake at 6:05 AM on November 11, 2005


Sometimes they definitely do. But in such a case, it's also usually happening because of a personal grudge. I think there's a good chance that both played a role here.
posted by lodurr at 6:14 AM on November 11, 2005


Does anyone seriously believe that it's the political posts that differentiate MetaFilter from Fark?

We also don't have Boobies posts!
posted by clevershark at 6:17 AM on November 11, 2005


Metafilter: online barroom waffle, all piss and wind. Worse, there's no beer.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:18 AM on November 11, 2005


*ticks the box*
*punches chad*
*has vote mysteriously altered to "Bush"*
posted by NinjaPirate at 6:18 AM on November 11, 2005


pyramidtermiteisagenius.metafilter.com
posted by OmieWise at 6:34 AM on November 11, 2005


I have bber. And beer.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:37 AM on November 11, 2005


You dustpussy danglewankles.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:38 AM on November 11, 2005


smarterthanfark.metafilter.com
posted by pyramid termite at 6:42 AM on November 11, 2005


oops ... i lose
posted by pyramid termite at 6:43 AM on November 11, 2005


I love how being upset or annoyed by terrible posts is a worse crime than making terrible posts. I have an idea: let's post some hilarious and "wacky" inline images and then we'll all feel better.

I think it's the 'why don't you leave' comment that flipped people out.

I didn't think Dios' comments were that bad, and if they'd come from someone else no one would have noticed.

But that said, Dios is getting so tiresome. I mean, yeah he occasionally posts insightful commentary, but so do thousands of other members without pissing everyone off with crap comments all the time.

If he doesn't metafilter's political threads so much, he should just do what Asparagirl does and not read them. Rather then ignoring threads, however, he's (at least in the past few days) been trying to derail them in his previous style.

And then he has the audacity to complain about the 'integrity of metafilter' while pissing on it. That's just weak.

If everyone here posted with the same regard for the site as Dios, then it really would be a lot like fark, entirely useless threads full of 95% garbage.
posted by delmoi at 6:50 AM on November 11, 2005


As one of the Newbies mentioned above, I am wiping away tears (of laughter) at this post. You're like a basket of cats as my Mother used to say, all the spitting and hissing has blended into the funniest noise. I love this site!
posted by Wilder at 7:00 AM on November 11, 2005


Please don't encourage the Dumb, newbie Wilder. Please. I'm really fucking serious here.

Please.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:03 AM on November 11, 2005


I think it's the 'why don't you leave' comment that flipped people out.

I didn't ask him to leave. I said, "if you hate it so much, why are you still here?"

It's like being at a party and saying "Jesus Christ, this party sucks. It's all the same people talking about the same shit. Man, fuck these guys. It's a sausage-fest, too. This party sucks," then walking up to people there having a conversation and saying "oh, man, are you guys still talking about this? Christ, this is boring. I don't see why you guys always say the same shit."

You know, grab your keys and go to fucking Taco Bell then.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:14 AM on November 11, 2005


dios!
posted by Stynxno at 7:22 AM on November 11, 2005


cortex!
posted by Stynxno at 7:22 AM on November 11, 2005


Wilder: After a while, it gets kind of old as the humor remains the same. Calling out peeps goes in cycle. 111, Midas, S@L, Rothko, y2karl, and the ever-infamous self call-out by my hero, Miguel Cordosa and the list goes on. It's mostly the usual suspects (which goes in cycles, right now we seem to be in a Dios/Rothko cycle, though word on the street is the later has got better) with the same damn arguments rehashed (YOU SUCK; NO YOU SUCK; IF YOU HATE BLAH.* SO MUCH, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE?; YOU IGNORAMUS PIECE OF SHIT!; precede to entertaining flaiming/flame out) under the pretense of different damn semantics.

Then again, I obviously still follow the same damn spitting and hissing blended into the funniest noise time after time so eh.
posted by jmd82 at 7:24 AM on November 11, 2005


delmoi: that is entirely unfair. I do like interesting substantive threads and make a good effort to contribute to them. If they are overtly political, I have shown a willingness to contribute to them even if my opinion is controversial. But a shit thread is a shit thread, regardless the politics of it and deserves to be castigated so that people understand that shit threads should not be posted here.

I'd be more than happy to discuss substantive things and offer productive and measured commentary when it is a topic that is worth being discussed. "Is Religion Evil" is not such a topic. Or do you want to argue that it is? How about "Are American's Fat and Stupid or just Stupid?" Is that another good topic to discuss?

My point is that we need to get rid of all the crummy screed posts about How Bad X Is, because those do not lend to themselves to discussion. Make a good effort in presenting the topic in a way that promotes a dialogue instead of just one-hand clapping, and I promise you this: I will contribue substantively on it. (And you make the effort to present the topic, make sure there aren't 3 other threads on the topic open on that day).

But don't argue that I mostly noise. Look at my last 100 comments, and I will bet you money they are at least 90% topical.
posted by dios at 7:29 AM on November 11, 2005


stinky!
posted by dios at 7:29 AM on November 11, 2005


Why is this thread still open? Really, venting frustration is one thing, but I think one of the reasons people around here are so snippy with each other is that they're given a free-for-all forum like this thread where anything that comes to mind immediately gets posted.

Seriously, this constant sniping is detrimental to persons and people here. And while I would normally argue against administrator intervention, I think these types of threads require it. This thread doesn't help the community at all; it doesn't further the cause of self-policing; it merely serves to belittle each other.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 7:31 AM on November 11, 2005


though word on the street is the later has got better

He's gotten better? Look at this thread from 2 days ago, which is me trying to be topical and him trying to snipe and derail the conversation with insults.
posted by dios at 7:32 AM on November 11, 2005


Eww. I wish I could retract that last comment, because in retrospect, this thread really doesn't need to take a turn in that direction---it's crass enough as is. My apologies.
posted by dios at 7:34 AM on November 11, 2005


delmoi, here I have a question:

On the front page, right now, there is a ridiculous post about a documentary about how planes didn't really hit the WTC on 9/11 (I hadn't realized that CNN faked that footage).

Is this something that deserves only substantive dialogue? Do you have beef with all the people in there who are criticizing the post? Should that be a post?
posted by dios at 7:39 AM on November 11, 2005


Should that be a post?

Goes nicely with this one.
posted by loquax at 7:43 AM on November 11, 2005


At first, I was worried that the flagging system would destroy the beautiful soap opera that is MetaTalk, but I should have known the urge to cry out in public was too strong for that.

Thank you, MetaTalk, for providing me with endless entertainment these past four and a half years.
posted by rocketman at 7:58 AM on November 11, 2005


For what little teeny tiny bit of good will that it's worth, much as I am utterly opposed to what I understand to be dios's politics, from what I have seen, he's doing his best to be constructive and conversational lately. You could cherrypick most politically-engaged MeFites' comments and paint a negative picture of them, and dios has the deck stacked against him from the outset, and I reckon he's contributed way more to reasoned discussion of late than many of our well-known members whose contributions collectively tend to amount to !!LOLO!BUSHSUCKZ!. But they get a pass for being doltish and repetitive, whereas dios gets spotlighted if he makes misstep one.

So, you know, whatever, dude. Be smart, avoid allcaps, I guess.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:01 AM on November 11, 2005


That's savingtheworldfromevil.com
posted by onalark at 8:02 AM on November 11, 2005


delmoi: that is entirely unfair. I do like interesting substantive threads and make a good effort to contribute to them. If they are overtly political, I have shown a willingness to contribute to them even if my opinion is controversial. But a shit thread is a shit thread, regardless the politics of it and deserves to be castigated so that people understand that shit threads should not be posted here.

Maybe they should be castigated, but not in thread. Complaints should always, always be made in metatalk, not in the thread itself. Yes, you can only make one MeTa FPP a week, and there's a good reason for that. I found the in-ordinate numbers of religion threads the past few weeks a little tiresome, but, IMO, complaints about a thread shouldn't be done in thread.

Just because you don't like a thread, doesn't mean you should ruin it for people who might like it, even if it's just a small number.

Concerns about attracting the 'wrong crowd' are just as elitist as say who's not 'cool enough' for metafilter.
posted by delmoi at 8:23 AM on November 11, 2005


"I was worried that the flagging system would destroy the beautiful soap opera that is MetaTalk"

From the many comments claiming to have flagged particular posts for obvious rules infringement yet those posts remain, I'm beginning to suspect the flagging system does nothing whatsoever.
posted by mischief at 8:32 AM on November 11, 2005


Every time someone says "This FPP sucks" (in whatever way they wish to dress it up), it doesn't ruin a thread. The mere act of disapproval doesn't wreck a thread. Hell, at least it's talking about the topic. What ruins threads is when people hijack them, or take them off on tangents, or start insulting people instead of ideas. Snarkily stating your dislike of the FPP doesn't necessarily do the same thing.
posted by 23skidoo at 8:34 AM on November 11, 2005


Just what the hell is wrong with Bartles & Jaymes, klangklangston? Their newest refreshing fruit flavors are Apple Passion and Tropical Mango, fer chrissakes!
posted by sluggo at 8:37 AM on November 11, 2005


He's gotten better? Look at this thread from 2 days ago, which is me trying to be topical and him trying to snipe and derail the conversation with insults.
posted by dios at 7:32 AM PST on November 11 [!]


I'm not insulting you. But I think your misuse of language is a problem for a substantive conversation.
posted by Rothko at 11:12 AM EST on November 9 [!]


Please don't drag me into your mess, Dios. Take some responsibility for your rhetoric. Thanks.
posted by Rothko at 8:55 AM on November 11, 2005


kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya ...
posted by pyramid termite at 9:09 AM on November 11, 2005


For its a grand old team to play for ...........
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:16 AM on November 11, 2005


furiousthought : "I don't think we need 4 torture threads a day either, but as long as the opposition to it only comes from highly politics-focused, minority-viewpoint posters, nothing's ever going to happen with it, because expressing that opinion becomes politically charged."

Well, then, on those grounds: I'm not a highly politics focused, minority viewpoint poster, so let me put in a vote for: "Less fucking threads daily about torture". Not because I support torture: I don't. I'm pretty much a majority viewpoint poster when it comes to this issue. But the discussions are abolutely repetitive and unproductive. Sure, there's nothing new under the sun, and everything that is said has probably been said before. Still, there are millions of things in the world, so there's no pressing reason to say the same things about the same issue multiple times daily. If everyone says something at noon, trust us, we still believe that your opinions are the same at six pm.

mr.marx : "sadly, this all dios, all the time shit will eventually lead to well respected members being fed up and leaving Metafilter. and history repeats itself yet again."

Possibly true. Though I suspect it wouldn't be members leaving because of the handful of comments that dios makes, but the giant threads that other people start about Dios. Dios is far from perfect, but the obsession with dios is far more annoying.

Ethereal Bligh : "MetaFilter is not savetheworld.com, and it's incredibly tiresome that some members think it is."

Holy motherfucking amen!

juiceCake : "Does anyone seriously belive that callouts occur because of a poster's politics, other than EB?"

I do. Though in this case I think it's pretty indirect. That is, there have been quite a few callouts of dios in the past. Some were deserved, and some were due to politics. And further, even in the deserved callouts, a lot of the arguments were just based on politics. It grew into a generalized view of dios as being more of a jerk than he really is, and that generalized view of him as a jerk is probably partially responsible for this callout. So this callout isn't about his politics, but it comes from them.

Optimus Chyme : "You know, grab your keys and go to fucking Taco Bell then."

Cuts both ways, though, doesn't it? After all, dios hasn't been permabanned by mathowie, so what's the point of walking around complaining about it? You could just grab your keys and go to fucking Taco Bell. Which isn't to argue that you should go, just that someone complaining about something bad doesn't necessarily mean that they should leave.

But, anyway, back on topic: Dios, I'm in total agreement about the bad repetetive nature of topics on Mefi, but I really don't think that little snarks in the blue are a good way to go about that. The blue should be used for comments about the contents of links, and discussions about those contents. The grey should be used for comments about links themselves, and discussion of the discussions on the blue. Your opinion was valid, but your way of expressing it was not.

And, for the record, I've been impressed with both dios and rothko lately.
posted by Bugbread at 9:18 AM on November 11, 2005


dios: I'd be more than happy to discuss substantive things and offer productive and measured commentary when it is a topic that is worth being discussed. "Is Religion Evil" is not such a topic.

.... and yet, you proceeded to participate in the discussion.

I get it, now; you want to be able to say what constitutes a "substantive thing" -- what comprises a "worthy" topic.

In other words, you want to be an intellectual bully. Well, you're halfway there, coach. You're halfway there.
posted by lodurr at 9:27 AM on November 11, 2005


But that said, Dios is getting so tiresome.

Pffft... as if you're not. The lot of you are tiresome, broken record choir boys (and girls).
posted by Witty at 9:33 AM on November 11, 2005


Dios, you also gotta learn to take some deserved hits and not just assume that Alex is gunnin' for you. The impassioned defense of the Bush "mandate" was pretty deserving of the snark that Alex laid on you, and the bit about "You have to be a prick, don't you?" that you replied with was unwarranted and made you just look shrill and uptight.

Sluggo: Boones Farm makes a delightful Strawberry Kiwi wine, should you be interested in expanding your cabinet of "Oh my God, I feel like I'm vomiting out my heart" liquors. (Bartles and Jaymes led to some unfortunate incidents in my youth, working at the Ann Arbor Summer Fest).
posted by klangklangston at 9:39 AM on November 11, 2005


I never get tired of the Wittys.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 9:47 AM on November 11, 2005


klangklangston : "The impassioned defense of the Bush 'mandate' was pretty deserving of the snark that Alex laid on you, and the bit about 'You have to be a prick, don't you?' that you replied with was unwarranted and made you just look shrill and uptight. "

True. To both dios and rothko: Y'all have to realize that you've reached the point where you're completely incapable of impartially interpreting eachother's posts. If you think either one of you is being a dick, you should probably email someone you consider pretty impartial (that means no ParisParamus, dios, and no matteo, rothko) and ask if it's just your imagination or if the other person is really being a dick.

I don't say that with any insult intended. I'm sure there are folks in my life that I interpret in the same way, and need an impartial observer to help me parse correctly.
posted by Bugbread at 9:56 AM on November 11, 2005


Dios, I'm in total agreement about the bad repetetive nature of topics on Mefi, but I really don't think that little snarks in the blue are a good way to go about that. The blue should be used for comments about the contents of links, and discussions about those contents. The grey should be used for comments about links themselves, and discussion of the discussions on the blue. Your opinion was valid, but your way of expressing it was not.
posted by bugbread at 9:18 AM PST on November 11


I'm inclined to agree with you bugbread on the principle you are espousing. Unfortunately, in practice, I'm not sure it would be recieved in a better manner. I can envision, as I am sure you can, the discussion that would ensue if I made a MeTa post about it. (I can hear a certain bot poster who would call me a torture lover for saying 4 posts a day on the topic is too much). So while it was not optimal, I'm not sure it was a net distraction. But, in principle, you are correct. And my apologies for not being more principled (though, I was surely not the first or only ones in any of those threads making comments more appropriate for MeTa---but that is not a justification for my comments, of which I take full responsibility).
posted by dios at 9:58 AM on November 11, 2005


bugbread: I think you hit the nail on the head in your most recent comment regarding the ability to read in neutral light, and your advice is well recieved.
posted by dios at 9:59 AM on November 11, 2005


Bugbread: What the hell does Rothko have to do with this clusterfuck? Let the man turn his corner in his own way (i.e., not derailing multiple threads with retarded .gifs).
posted by bardic at 10:12 AM on November 11, 2005


... a certain bot poster ...

Do you actually seriously wonder why people think you're obnoxious? And do you seriously think that being obnoxious is a virtue?

I'm really curious about this. It's something I've thought about for years -- that is, the fact that some peopel think that in-your-race outrageousness and obnoxiousness, a la Act Up or Bill O'Reilly or ParisParamus is an Inherently Good Thing, because it "shakes people up".

Personally, I think that's a load of crap with a very few talented exceptions, only one (maybe two) of whom (in my own personal opinion) has posted to this thread. (Hint: It's not me and it's not you and it's not Rothko either.) Those exceptional folks, though -- they end up making it hard for the rest of us because a bunch of wannabees take the wrong lesson.

But hey, I believe in the idea of civil society, so what the hell do I know?
posted by lodurr at 10:14 AM on November 11, 2005


Let the man turn his corner in his own way (i.e., not derailing multiple threads with retarded .gifs).

??
posted by Rothko at 10:21 AM on November 11, 2005


bardic : "Bugbread: What the hell does Rothko have to do with this clusterfuck?"

Nothing, overall. That comment was specifically about these comments in this thread: 1 2 3
posted by Bugbread at 10:24 AM on November 11, 2005


lodurr, with all due respect, I haven't a clue what you just wrote. Could you clarify, please, if you are looking for a response from me?
posted by dios at 10:27 AM on November 11, 2005


And, again, for reference: I was in no way calling out/saying anything bad about Rothko. I've greatly enjoyed the dios and rothko of late. If anything, it was a friendly word of advice, not from on-high, but as an equal (and apologies if anyone finds it presumptuous of me to call dios or rothko my equals, but since we're neither above or below eachother, that's what we are), in order that we might maintain the increased quality we've got lately. Some people may take this as insulting anyway, but I think that's probably due to the aspect of humanity that makes advice sometimes seem like patronization, or honesty as an insult. I don't mean for it to come off that way, but I don't know how to give friendly advice some other way.

And, on a completely separate issue: The "if it bugs you so much, make a better post" logic is somewhat flawed. If someone says a post is unnecessary and therefore incorrect, the way to do the right thing is not to make a better post. The way to do the correct thing is not to make unnecessary posts. To make great posts is of course much better than just not making bad posts. Putting them on the same level is like saying that if you complain about people littering, you're being a hypocrite if you don't pick up litter. No, you're a hypocrite if you litter yourself. You're doing nothing wrong if you don't litter. You're doing something good if you pick up litter.
posted by Bugbread at 10:32 AM on November 11, 2005


lodurr, with all due respect, I haven't a clue what you just wrote.

What part didn't you understand? The part where I asked if you seriously wondered why people think you're obnoxious? (... after citing your gratuitous stab at whoever you're thinking of by "slipping" and calling them a "bot poster"...) Or the part where I asked whether you think obnoxiousness is a virtue?
posted by lodurr at 10:46 AM on November 11, 2005


So your question is whether I think obnoxiousness is a virtue? If that the case, then the answer is no. Not at all. I don't see how my comment is obnoxious to you, though. Perhaps its because you don't like me, so you are apt to find what I say obnoxious. Certainly there is inescapable fact that we find things people we dislike to more infuriating for the same behavior with people we like. See, the thing you referenced was sort of snarky, but so is about 90% that is on Metafilter. Does all of it bother you that much? I put forth a relatively benign substantive response to bugbread, but that one comment was noxious to you? Seems to me rather tame. So the question in my mind is why you find me obnoxious for making a comment that would pass un-noticed from the other 99% of the website that does the same. It suggests animus towards me. I wouldn't find such a comment from you to be obnoxious because I honestly have no opinion of you and do not recognize your name.
posted by dios at 10:51 AM on November 11, 2005


Certainly there is inescapable fact that we find things people we dislike to more infuriating for the same behavior with people we like.

Wow. That sentence should have read: Certainly there is the inescapable fact that find things said by people we dislike to be more infuriating than the same comments made by people we like.

Just call me the Butcher.
posted by dios at 10:53 AM on November 11, 2005


dios : "I don't see how my comment is obnoxious to you, though."

The "bot poster" comment was obnoxious. I can't describe what about it made it obnoxious, in the same way that I can't describe what makes some jokes funny, or some behaviors annoying, but I think it's safe to say that quite a few people find that style of comment obnoxious, whether they agree or disagree with what it's saying.

But, then again, I find that kind of comment obnoxious when anyone, of any political or other persuasion, says it. Even when I say stuff like that, which I later regret.
posted by Bugbread at 11:04 AM on November 11, 2005


Well, I guess I just don't see. It certainly wasn't intended to be obnoxious as lodurr is suggesting. It was intended to make fun of the particular poster's proclivity to label people torture lovers anytime the comes up by suggesting that he is like a bot designed to use the insult whenver the topic is broached. I can see why its not really funny, but I don't see it as obnoxious. Maybe I just have different standards for that.
posted by dios at 11:09 AM on November 11, 2005


dios : "Maybe I just have different standards for that."

That may be the root cause of all this friction, then.
posted by Bugbread at 11:14 AM on November 11, 2005


I honestly have no opinion of you and do not recognize your name.

Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by bardic at 11:14 AM on November 11, 2005




Dios,

You do recognize that comment was snarky, so maybe this would be a somewhat useful rule-of-thumb for understanding how other people identify obnoxiousness: Some folks find snark directed at other Mefi members in any context other than purely friendly teasing to be obnoxiousness.

Whether or not you choose to act on that is another matter, but at the least it might give you an idea what some folks consider obnoxious.
posted by Bugbread at 11:24 AM on November 11, 2005


Results 1 - 5 of 5 from metafilter.com for "torture-loving"

For more details and variations on the phrase, see here.
posted by loquax at 11:24 AM on November 11, 2005


At this point, I think people in this thread are going around in circles.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:30 AM on November 11, 2005


So matteo said that you were "torture-loving" in one post in one thread. That's it, if you actually look at your search results.

Dios said "I can hear a certain bot poster who would call me a torture lover for saying 4 posts a day on the topic is too much." The evidence shows that no such thing happened.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:31 AM on November 11, 2005


I don't see how my comment is obnoxious to you, though. Perhaps its because you don't like me, so you are apt to find what I say obnoxious. Certainly there is inescapable fact that we find things people we dislike to more infuriating for the same behavior with people we like. See, the thing you referenced was sort of snarky, but so is about 90% that is on Metafilter. Does all of it bother you that much? I put forth a relatively benign substantive response to bugbread, but that one comment was noxious to you? Seems to me rather tame. So the question in my mind is why you find me obnoxious for making a comment that would pass un-noticed from the other 99% of the website that does the same. It suggests animus towards me. I wouldn't find such a comment from you to be obnoxious because I honestly have no opinion of you and do not recognize your name.

You're a clever fellow, dios. Much more clever than you try to pass yourself off as being. We could start from the end: "I don't recognize your name." Well, of course you don't, because I'm nobody to you, right? I don't have a low number; I'm not someone who's cited by others. So that comment's supposed to make me feel small. It's dismissive, in keeping with the whole tone of your response to me, and in keeping with your "failure" to understand me. What you're really trying to insinuate is that I don't make enough sense for a logical fellow like you to get what I'm saying -- that I don't matter enough for you to remember me. Now, of course, I'm to feel honored that you've deigned to notice my comment...

That you fail to see what's obnoxious about the "bot" snark is interesting. I'd have noticed it anywhere, frankly, and regarded the speaker as obnoxious in any context -- unless, of course, I knew that s/he were joking, and the joke was mutual. You might have been joking, for that matter; you didn't care if the joke was mutual, because you're interested really in being seen as righteous (to the right people, of course0, much more than in actually being righteous. (And spare me the "you don't know what's in my head" crap and just be honest about it, OK?)

Which is probably not really fair: You probably don't really, at a gut level, think there's a difference between being seen as righteous and being righteous. Or between making people jump, and actually being powerful.

The scary thing about bullies in the real world -- as opposed to the morality plays our parents give us as children and that we get from the TV and other media -- is that if they're any good at it, they dont' really ever have to get any comeuppance for their deeds. They can always manage to manipulate someone into giving them what they want. If there were justice in the world, con men would die poor and bullies would die scared. In point of fact, a lot of con artists die filthy rich and happy, knowing they got more than they gave up, and a lot of bullies die contented in the knowledge that they dished out more than they got served.

But then, you 'won't understand' that either, probably. That's fine. I wouldn't expect to get you to accept anything that i say.
posted by lodurr at 11:33 AM on November 11, 2005


Some folks find snark directed at other Mefi members in any context other than purely friendly teasing to be obnoxiousness.

I understand your bugbread. But if that is the standard, Metafilter must be rough such people since that is extremely common here. Still, I know better. I know that I am held to higher standards, so it is my own fault when I do what others do because it is going to be harped over more. Since I know that, I shouldn't have been snarky here or in the threads referenced. Mea culpa for the snark. But absent the snark, I do not apologize for the substance of my criticism and stand behind that competely.

loquax: thanks. But, I really shouldn't have shorthand which I figured would be a dead giveaway to anyone familiar with the threads or alluded to a specific person in order to make my point. I should have just said what I did say without making reference to anyone in particular. Good lesson, though, because the point I was making hasn't been addressed but there now have been several comments off of a throwaway line. And that is my problem. I shouldn't be posting at work because I too often allow myself to make baser comments because I'm not focused on what I am writing. What's worse is that I know it is a problem and yet it recurs.
posted by dios at 11:35 AM on November 11, 2005


Lodurr,

I understand what you're saying, but I have to say I don't see how dios is being a bully. Jerk, maybe, but bully? Isn't a bully someone who picks on the weak, or picks on people who don't fight back? Dios is picking on people with just as much power as himself, and just as willing to fight as himself. It certainly doesn't match any definition of "bully" that I've heard.
posted by Bugbread at 11:38 AM on November 11, 2005


Dios isn't the only player around, you know. I, for instance, have snarked. I have made comments so breathtakingly stupid that Dios could never come close to their utter banality and pig-headedness. I have derailed and derailed and all it gets me is ignored.

And does anyone ever call me out? NO! It's not fair to Dios and it's certainly not fair to me! Not to brag, but even my agenda is bigger than his is, for heaven's sake.

Just because I haven't snarked or derailed as often as he doesn't mean that I'm not as good at it! Give me time to prove my worthiness for a pile-on!

Thanks for listening. Carry on.
posted by leftcoastbob at 11:41 AM on November 11, 2005


Ethereal Bligh : "At this point, I think people in this thread are going around in circles."

I dunno, I'm learning a lot more about dios than I ever have in any of the other multitudinous dios threads.

dios : "But if that is the standard, Metafilter must be rough such people since that is extremely common here."

Yeah, it is. It used to be worse, though, and recently it's gotten better. I skip a lot of news/poli threads, so I wonder if it's that that kind of snark has moved to those threads, or just that it was never very common in the blue, and I just got that impression. But, yeah, that's one of the roughest aspects of MeFi for me at least.
posted by Bugbread at 11:42 AM on November 11, 2005


You're a clever fellow, dios. Much more clever than you try to pass yourself off as being. We could start from the end: "I don't recognize your name." Well, of course you don't, because I'm nobody to you, right? I don't have a low number; I'm not someone who's cited by others. So that comment's supposed to make me feel small.

No, no, no. Please take that impression. That is not what it was intended to mean at all. It was made in reference to my comment that people have different reactions to certain things based on whether they have preconcieved notions of the people, whether it be like or dislike. Again, my point was that if the same comment is made by someone you like and by someone you dislike, how you take that would be different and are more likely to be annoyed by the same comment when it is uttered by someone you dislike. Which is why I was suggesting to you that I don't know you so I am taking your criticisms on their face. If they were coming from the person who started this thread, I would be ignoring them.

I could care less about user numbers or citations. I was trying to suggest I don't have preconcieved notions of you.

My apologies if that wasn't explicitly clear. I was not trying to belittle you.

It's dismissive, in keeping with the whole tone of your response to me, and in keeping with your "failure" to understand me.

Not so. In fact, I was trying to avoid that and show that I was being polite and sincere in asking you to clarify. I honestly read what you wrote and couldn't really understand point structurally. Perhaps that is a fault of reading, but I was trying to nicely ask you to clarify if you really looking for an answer instead of just ignoring your question.

might have been joking, for that matter; you didn't care if the joke was mutual, because you're interested really in being seen as righteous (to the right people, of course0, much more than in actually being righteous. (And spare me the "you don't know what's in my head" crap and just be honest about it, OK?)

I don't know how to respond this other than to say it wrong. You can take that for what's its worth, but you seem to have already made up your mind on that point. I could careless about people thinking I am righteous. All I really ask for is enough respect from people that a dialogue can occur instead of forestalled by rejection (like your parenthetical at the end does) or insults.

But then, you 'won't understand' that either, probably. That's fine. I wouldn't expect to get you to accept anything that i say.
posted by lodurr at 11:33 AM PST on November 11


I don't know where you get that you think I am a bully. If I was such, would I be on a website where I am clearly alone on island?

I think you will find that I accept what people say when they engage me in a dialouge respectfully (note bugbread in this thread). And I don't really know how you chastise me for being dismissive when I was trying to be respectful, and then say some of the things you did here. Meet on a respectful level, and I will reciprocate.
posted by dios at 11:48 AM on November 11, 2005


The dynamics of bullying can be a funny thing. What it's really about is more than merely exercising power; it's as much about getting other people to see you exercising power, and think that you're powerful. To that end, it's much more satisfying to manipulate the strong than the weak, especially if you can do it in ways that undermine them on their own terms. So, for example, if I wanted to bully you, I'd find your hot buttons (I'm sure you've got them, I don't remember them off the top of my head), push them relentlessly until you snapped, and I'd know that I got the better of you. Meanwhile, I'm sitting over here on the other side of a virtual link, knowing that unless you're batshit crazy and at least slightly l33t, you won't do anything to me.

So if you can get someone to fly off the handle when they don't really think that's cool -- that's bullying. If you know the techniques, you can do it to anyone.

Now, if there are people you know you can't unhinge that way, or who you know are as likely to unhinge you as you, them, you find ways to deal with them. For example, I don't recally dios going head to head with matteo in recent memory. Sure, they glance off of one another now and then, but they never engage. My casual perception is that it's not for wont of matteo offering the opportunity, but then, I don't spend nearly as much time here as I used to.

And if you're wondering how I can say all this with such confidence, it's because I am dios's father I've done more than just observe in this game. Heaven help me, I've played it. I'd bet you money that whatever leftcoastbob wants to confess to, I've got worse. After all, there's a reason I don't spend as much time around here as i used to...
posted by lodurr at 11:50 AM on November 11, 2005


on prev: Well, dios, I'm gonna take you at face value in your last post. I know that seems contrary to my spirit, but what the hell, I have been alluding to Emerson. Take my last as a general discourse, and not a veiled reference to you, specifically.

I need to actually go do some work, anyway.
posted by lodurr at 11:52 AM on November 11, 2005


lodurr,
I think your impression of me is so far off base that I don't even know how to correct it or explain why. All I can say is that your characterization of what you imagine I do here is not in the least bit accurate. I honestly don't know how you got to this opinion. I'm inclined to share some blame for not being completely transparent, but I really can't imagine why you think I am here to just bully since I am much more inclined to discuss things with people and agree with people who treat me respectfully.
posted by dios at 11:56 AM on November 11, 2005


The law firm of Hypocrite and Getaclue is happy to have you dios. Just stop shitting in threads, mkay? And stop selectively responding to only the comments you see rhetorical chinks in. Post once to express your distaste, not ten times. Don't go into a thread just because you have an ax to grind. Don't post images unless they are funny. Really damn funny. Grow a thicker skin. Learn how to spell.

I hate assholes who tell people how to act but since you spend most of your waking hours doing it to the rest of us, I feel like I've earned the right.
posted by bardic at 11:56 AM on November 11, 2005


Lodurr: Good point, the "hot button pushing" thing is an approach to bullying-among-equals that I'd kind of forgotten about.
posted by Bugbread at 11:57 AM on November 11, 2005


Still no vitriole spewed in my direction. Dios, how do you do it? I truly do not think that you are even close to being as irritating as I, and yet you get all the enmity. I don't get it. What's your secret?
posted by leftcoastbob at 12:57 PM on November 11, 2005


Uhh, that's "vitriol." See--I can't even spell! Someone should at least hate me for my lack of literacy.
posted by leftcoastbob at 12:58 PM on November 11, 2005


Beware The Troll: A Practical Guide

leftcoastbob, I'm sure you can find some tips in there. Now shut up, you stinking Troll! Better?
posted by fenriq at 1:04 PM on November 11, 2005


Now shut up, you stinking Troll!

Yeah, you communist!

Remember, I'm klangklangston's sockpuppet
posted by loquax at 1:07 PM on November 11, 2005


leftcoastslob, I'd explain it to you but you're obviously beyond the reach of plain english and/or reason, so let me just summarize for you in words you might be able to, if not understand, at least sound out:

you have cocks in your nostrils.
posted by cortex at 1:08 PM on November 11, 2005


Still no vitriole spewed in my direction.

What, are you French or something? /summonPP
posted by Rothko at 1:11 PM on November 11, 2005


Thanks, guys. Sniff. That means a lot coming from you.
posted by leftcoastbob at 1:31 PM on November 11, 2005


well, this sure has gotten boring. thanks, BB and EB. you guys are great at desiccating the juiciest of threads! if only we could put you to work in New Orleans!
posted by Hat Maui at 1:32 PM on November 11, 2005


Hat Maui : "you guys are great at desiccating the juiciest of threads! if only we could put you to work in New Orleans!"

I'm afraid my boss wouldn't give me the time off from work.
posted by Bugbread at 1:35 PM on November 11, 2005


Where is PP these days? Was there a flameout, or is it just the natural ebb and flow of MeFi?
posted by OmieWise at 1:36 PM on November 11, 2005


No, YOUR MOTHER!!!
posted by Krrrlson at 1:40 PM on November 11, 2005


Where is PP these days?

Sadly, his trollmojo seems to be missing. In this thread, he dropped a standard issue turd at midnight, was completely ignored other than the obligatory quote, then returned seven hours later to express his pleasure at, uhhhhh, being completely ignored, I guess.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 1:46 PM on November 11, 2005


I often disagree with Dios' comments but he's not a troll and this callout is stupid.

And when Dios said "if the same comment is made by someone you like and by someone you dislike, how you take that would be different and are more likely to be annoyed by the same comment when it is uttered by someone you dislike" he was making sense.

Maybe everybody who doesn't like Dios posting here should shut up and go away.
posted by davy at 1:50 PM on November 11, 2005


Leftcoastbob, I feel your pain.
posted by Balisong at 2:05 PM on November 11, 2005


Everybody who doesn't read the thread should shut up and go away.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:09 PM on November 11, 2005


davy, that would be fine if the site was called DiosFilter. ** Checks **, nope, still MetaFilter.

Nah, I'll just continue to ignore him.
posted by fenriq at 2:11 PM on November 11, 2005


tell your mom i said hi too. *wink*

I swear if that wink was even a little bit licentious you've got another MeTa thread on your hands, bub.
posted by moift at 2:17 PM on November 11, 2005


do you know what annoys me worse than lame callouts and stupid threads?

people who have to announce that they're ignoring something.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:18 PM on November 11, 2005


Maybe we need a snarky sidebar or pop-up, only available to members, not $5-less lookie-loosers, where we can call each other cockwranglers, Anal-sniffing schnoz gobblins, and pussyfarts all damn day long.
I might have to schedule my days around whenever some world class snarker is usually on, just so I'm keeping up on the regional trends.
posted by Balisong at 2:18 PM on November 11, 2005


*resists the urge*
posted by cortex at 2:19 PM on November 11, 2005


andrew cooke, you DO know that nobody cares in the least what annoys you worse than lame callouts and stupid threads (that you weren't forced to click on or read or comment in but you're doing so anyway so, um yeah, soooo cool)?

And actually, I know my comment was a really long one but try to read the whole thing. I'm actually responding to davy's comment in it.

But wow, really top notch contribution there, snark-0-bot.
posted by fenriq at 2:39 PM on November 11, 2005


I think i got up somewhere around 7 this morning and i think that i had a wee lie of about fifteen minutes or so and then i was up having lots of cups of tea and so forth , i dragged myself into the shower and then i was out for the bus .
I was a bit late for my usual bus so i had to wait a while for the next one but that was ok because my classmate got on and once there was a spare seat we managed to sit and have a chat about the course and then i was away getting myself some breakfast , i have to say that the cooks at the sighthill shopping centre's bakers really did well today , the yolk on my egg roll was not too runny , not too hard , i noticed that the wind was blowing fierce as i came out of the underpass.
I just thought i'd write some paragraphs to see if anyone reads these things , i usually just scroll past them.
I can't say that the tutor was on inspired form : her whole session consisted of her trying to get us to feel sorry for her that she had to teach us , she started talking about how bad she was feeling and how we were going to hate the work we were going to do , i'm not too sure i agreed with that but i kept my mouth shut , she was muttering fuckoffs under her breath anytime anyone asked a question so i decided to keep shtum , it didn't really work cause she came over and started reading the notes i was making during class and started an argument with me about that , well , she tried to but i just kept being vague and agreeing with her and then changing the subject , i'll probably have to avoid her class from now on cause it's pretty clear she doesnt want to teach us and i'm thinking well if you dont want to teach then i don't want to learn.
I was trying to see if i could get to hire out the proper digital cameras as well instead of those piece of shit fuji's they give to us, but no dice : they say we cant have a hire of the nikon d70's , which is pretty frustrating if you ask me , i don't see the point of that.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:10 PM on November 11, 2005


But wow, really top notch contribution there, snark-0-bot.

And Metafilter is a needle skipping backward in this groove forever.

It occured to me that I like the faux-snark foolishness that happens around here a great deal. Smart people being self-consciously absurd and playing off one another: it's good stuff. I think it's my favorite thing about the site, blue and grey both. But I don't have any idea how we could practically manage to cut the sincere zealous frothing and angry flareups from the mix, and it's a little depressing to me that I'd rather keep reading (and occasionally participating in) the frothing angry flareups on MeTa than simply giving up the site and miss out on seeing that goofy absurd self-awareness that crops up at our better moments.
posted by cortex at 3:16 PM on November 11, 2005


sgt.serenity at 3:10 PM PST on November 11

Dude just post tall.gif if you want to spam the thread; no need to make an effort.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:20 PM on November 11, 2005


fenriq - i'm ignoring you. haven't bothered to read it all. nyah nyah nyah nyah. don't care. going out to dinner. won't ever know what you said. fingers are in my ears. chao!
posted by andrew cooke at 3:28 PM on November 11, 2005


Image results for Chao. Okay, well then, small blue and yellow furry creatures to you too, Andrew.

By the way, how do you type with your fingers in your ears, are they coming out of your mouth so you can tap the keys or something?
posted by fenriq at 3:37 PM on November 11, 2005


Nono, index fingers go in ears, face goes close to keyboard, and then pinkies hit the keys. Letters like "Q" and "P" are really easy to hit, buy you have to swivel your head side to side to type words like "bug".
posted by Bugbread at 3:45 PM on November 11, 2005


wtf?! i'm not listening to any of you, but "chao" is how you say goodbye in spanish. like "bye". i think italians write it ciao.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:50 PM on November 11, 2005



posted by quonsar at 3:52 PM on November 11, 2005


andrew cooke : "but 'chao' is how you say goodbye in spanish. like 'bye'. i think italians write it ciao."

Spaniards write it "ciao" as well.
posted by Bugbread at 4:16 PM on November 11, 2005


Ah but fenriq, ignoring Dios is within my suggested parameters. Maybe I should rephrase it to "everybody who objects out loud to Dios posting here should go away". I ignore most of what he says myself, but then I ignore most of what you say too. (I ignore a lot of people most of the time, actually.)
posted by davy at 4:36 PM on November 11, 2005


(I ignore a lot of people most of the time, actually.)
posted by davy


Actually, I think this is the biggest issue facing Metafilter.

We all post, but we don't really care what other people have to say about anything.
posted by Balisong at 4:49 PM on November 11, 2005


I care.
posted by cortex at 5:13 PM on November 11, 2005


Spaniards write it "ciao" as well.

Maybe, but Argentines write it chau. I didn't know the Italian spelling until I went to college. (I wanted to stay out of this godawful pisspot of a thread, but I couldn't let that pass.)
posted by languagehat at 5:23 PM on November 11, 2005


Cowboys spell it 'chow.'
posted by klangklangston at 5:36 PM on November 11, 2005


Margaret spells it 'Cho.'
posted by klangklangston at 5:36 PM on November 11, 2005


LH: You're right, my bad. Spaniards also spell it "chau".
posted by Bugbread at 5:39 PM on November 11, 2005


My chow spells it "chew."
posted by leftcoastbob at 5:58 PM on November 11, 2005


my barista spells it "chai"
posted by cortex at 6:57 PM on November 11, 2005


The Discordians call it 'chao'; one unit of chaos.
posted by Balisong at 7:52 PM on November 11, 2005


An old motorcycle rebel calls it "Che".
posted by fenriq at 8:29 PM on November 11, 2005



posted by Kwantsar at 9:12 PM on November 11, 2005


a cow calls it "moo"
posted by pyramid termite at 9:16 PM on November 11, 2005


thankyou for telling me what i should post optimus.
posted by sgt.serenity at 12:36 AM on November 12, 2005


hmmm. in spanish in chile, i guess (i checked with a real live chilean - you can find them in the street round here, it's very convenient - and they told me my spelling was ok).
posted by andrew cooke at 3:44 AM on November 12, 2005


Findings of thread:

Italians - Ciao
Spaniards - Chau
Argentinians - Chau
Chileans - Chao
Cows - Moo
posted by Bugbread at 4:18 AM on November 12, 2005


late breaking result: one chilean i know writes "chau pescau", but on interrogation confessed it was a kind of visual/written joke.
posted by andrew cooke at 6:22 AM on November 12, 2005


Andrew Cooke: How many Chileans would you estimate that you know? (I'd like to break it down into percentages, like "Chile - 99.4% Chao, 0.6% Chau", so I need to know the total sample size.)
posted by Bugbread at 6:45 AM on November 12, 2005


[rubs eyes blearily /] Are you guys still here?!

great...now I have to make breakfast for EVERYBODY... ok, where the hell is the big skillet? Who moved my french press?
posted by lodurr at 9:03 AM on November 12, 2005


Yo, sorry about crashing so late, lodurr. Thanks for having me over, and sorry about the mess. I'm gonna go home and catch some z's. See ya later.

(sound of car engine starting up on groggy chilly November morning)
posted by Bugbread at 11:31 AM on November 12, 2005


Can't talk... eating bacon...

Say, could I have another mug of that good coffee? Thanks, lodurr!

300 or Bust!
posted by languagehat at 2:00 PM on November 12, 2005


well, i only really asked one (and - maybe i shouldn't say this, but i'm sure no chileans will be listening, and, well, don't want to be rude about these people, but they do tend to hold quite decided opinions about things when they don't have a clue and, while i love her dearly, this particular data point is no different in that respect from her compatriots, who tell me things like "yes, it is fixed now" or "we will have them in stock tomorrow" or "of course there is no meat in our vegetarian sandwiches", so, in all honesty, 0% is not completely improbable for "chao"...)
posted by andrew cooke at 2:36 PM on November 12, 2005


oh. did bugbread leave?

pass the bacon sandwiches.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:38 PM on November 12, 2005


Wait, maybe he meant "jowles"
posted by cortex at 4:46 PM on November 14, 2005


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