a) Flash is mostly bad, and b) Browser resizing is bad? November 21, 2005 2:30 PM Subscribe
Can we introduce a policy stating that it is a given and accepted fact that a) Flash is mostly bad, and b) Browser resizing is bad? [mi]
I am referring to this thread as the most recent example.
I (and I guess the majority of users) agree with all the points made about usability and accessibility. Yet it seems to be the norm to post the n-th redundant post about how inaccessible the navigation is, and how using Flash for such-and-such is retarded.
Agreed, but it has reached a point where I am actually less annoyed by stupid flashturbation that by having to sift through 90% snide remarks in a thread that might otherwise have been interesting. Point being, I think this is deliberate derailing, especially since criticizing bad Flash on Mefi is nothing but preaching to the choir. It contributes nothing to the thread. Even if it may be pointed out that it wasn't a good idea to not mark something as Flash, isn't one post per thread enough?
posted by uncle harold at 2:31 PM on November 21, 2005
I (and I guess the majority of users) agree with all the points made about usability and accessibility. Yet it seems to be the norm to post the n-th redundant post about how inaccessible the navigation is, and how using Flash for such-and-such is retarded.
Agreed, but it has reached a point where I am actually less annoyed by stupid flashturbation that by having to sift through 90% snide remarks in a thread that might otherwise have been interesting. Point being, I think this is deliberate derailing, especially since criticizing bad Flash on Mefi is nothing but preaching to the choir. It contributes nothing to the thread. Even if it may be pointed out that it wasn't a good idea to not mark something as Flash, isn't one post per thread enough?
posted by uncle harold at 2:31 PM on November 21, 2005
uncle harold has posted no links 110 comments to MetaFilter
Yes?
posted by uncle harold at 2:32 PM on November 21, 2005
Yes?
posted by uncle harold at 2:32 PM on November 21, 2005
(Perhaps you could at least have waited for what I had to say.)
posted by uncle harold at 2:33 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by uncle harold at 2:33 PM on November 21, 2005
dont worry, he's probably a sock puppet anyway
... which you conclude because... ?
posted by uncle harold at 2:34 PM on November 21, 2005
... which you conclude because... ?
posted by uncle harold at 2:34 PM on November 21, 2005
uncle harold, what do you want to achieve here? It's unlikely that we'll see either a reduction in posts-of-flashnav-sites or comments-about-annoying-flash-nav as the result of a Metatalk thread -- it's not something that's worth setting policy about, and most people don't attend religiously to the grey.
posted by cortex at 2:38 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by cortex at 2:38 PM on November 21, 2005
(Key point being that people aren't commenting on flash for any mefi-specific reason; they're just bitching about it because they don't like it. So unless Matt were to put a note above the comment entry box saying "btw hush about flash navigation already kthx" there's nothing at all to for it.)
posted by cortex at 2:39 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by cortex at 2:39 PM on November 21, 2005
I would like to say that flash done well is the bees knees. Flash done badly is... well, something else entirely.
That is all.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:40 PM on November 21, 2005
That is all.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:40 PM on November 21, 2005
A policy? No. Are you new here? We don't need even more arcane policies and rules. Seriously, on the sliding scale of MeFi ettiquite this is way towards the bottom of the list.
Sure, it's good form to give warnings, but not required. Conversely, sure, it's really bad form to intentionally leave out warnings for things that are intentionally disruptive, loud, or offensive. (Say, an undescribed link to a URL obscured source for YattaJapaneseSeizureRobotsHeyImLookingAtGayPornGoatseCx.SWF.)
Whinging about bad site design is practically a god-given birthright here. It's not always (or even often) a criticism of the person who posted the link(s).
Think of it as a google-able record for posterity, just in case the site owner decides to check out where the huge spike in traffic is coming from. Maybe they'll find the thread and learn how people react to their design.
posted by loquacious at 2:41 PM on November 21, 2005
Sure, it's good form to give warnings, but not required. Conversely, sure, it's really bad form to intentionally leave out warnings for things that are intentionally disruptive, loud, or offensive. (Say, an undescribed link to a URL obscured source for YattaJapaneseSeizureRobotsHeyImLookingAtGayPornGoatseCx.SWF.)
Whinging about bad site design is practically a god-given birthright here. It's not always (or even often) a criticism of the person who posted the link(s).
Think of it as a google-able record for posterity, just in case the site owner decides to check out where the huge spike in traffic is coming from. Maybe they'll find the thread and learn how people react to their design.
posted by loquacious at 2:41 PM on November 21, 2005
Uninstall your flash player. Problem solved. Thank you. We now return you to your regularly scheduled bickering.
posted by IronLizard at 2:41 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by IronLizard at 2:41 PM on November 21, 2005
i think it's cute that someone expects us to agree on something *tossles harold's hair*
posted by keswick at 2:42 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by keswick at 2:42 PM on November 21, 2005
Key point being that people aren't commenting on flash for any mefi-specific reason; they're just bitching about it because they don't like it.
Well - for me it would be the key point as well: With any other topic except Flash, spamming random bitch notes and not contributing to a thread is called derailing, and will get you called out - rightly so.
But I see I seem to have it a sore spot.
posted by uncle harold at 2:44 PM on November 21, 2005
Well - for me it would be the key point as well: With any other topic except Flash, spamming random bitch notes and not contributing to a thread is called derailing, and will get you called out - rightly so.
But I see I seem to have it a sore spot.
posted by uncle harold at 2:44 PM on November 21, 2005
Can we introduce a policy stating that it is a given and accepted fact that a) policy proposing is mostly bad, and b) given and accepted facts are bad?
posted by blue mustard at 2:46 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by blue mustard at 2:46 PM on November 21, 2005
blue mustard: your ideas intrigue me and i would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
posted by keswick at 2:47 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by keswick at 2:47 PM on November 21, 2005
My life consists of spamming random bitch notes.
Metafilter: Spamming random bitch notes.
posted by IronLizard at 2:48 PM on November 21, 2005
Metafilter: Spamming random bitch notes.
posted by IronLizard at 2:48 PM on November 21, 2005
keswick: plotting the slow painful death of people who keep posting stupid metafilter taglines
posted by keswick at 2:50 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by keswick at 2:50 PM on November 21, 2005
Flashblock.
Firefox.
Problems solved.
Unless of course you're browsing from a work machine, in which case GET BACK TO WORK!
posted by Eideteker at 2:54 PM on November 21, 2005
Firefox.
Problems solved.
Unless of course you're browsing from a work machine, in which case GET BACK TO WORK!
posted by Eideteker at 2:54 PM on November 21, 2005
Sorry, was that too early for an animated gif? I say no. It's never too early for a nice animated gif. I like this one. It's better than coffee for keeping me awake at night.
And, of course, my favorite bunny.
The only thing that would make that any better is if the bunny had a pancake on it's head. Seriously, I can't get enough of that bunny. Somthing about the way it flops to the ground - not really dejected, just surprised yet still as randy as ever. You can practically see the bunny turn to the left, hoping to find another balloon right there, ready to go.
posted by loquacious at 2:54 PM on November 21, 2005
And, of course, my favorite bunny.
The only thing that would make that any better is if the bunny had a pancake on it's head. Seriously, I can't get enough of that bunny. Somthing about the way it flops to the ground - not really dejected, just surprised yet still as randy as ever. You can practically see the bunny turn to the left, hoping to find another balloon right there, ready to go.
posted by loquacious at 2:54 PM on November 21, 2005
keswick: plotting the slow painful death of people who keep posting stupid metafilter taglines
Torture lover! Neocon! Help I'm being repressed! You see that? He's repressing me!
posted by IronLizard at 2:55 PM on November 21, 2005
Torture lover! Neocon! Help I'm being repressed! You see that? He's repressing me!
posted by IronLizard at 2:55 PM on November 21, 2005
I'd like to introduce a policy of plotting the slow painful death of people who keep posting stupid metafilter taglines.
posted by puke & cry at 2:55 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by puke & cry at 2:55 PM on November 21, 2005
With any other topic except Flash, spamming random bitch notes and not contributing to a thread is called derailing, and will get you called out - rightly so.
Not true. Other facets of bad design also garner nasty comments. It's just that bad flash design is much more prominent right now than, say, blink tags or animated gifs (that latter case excepting, of course, past-due MeTa threads).
It sounds like you get that it's a bee-in-your-bonnet thing, though, so we've basically achieved the best possible resolution this thread could have.
posted by cortex at 2:58 PM on November 21, 2005
Not true. Other facets of bad design also garner nasty comments. It's just that bad flash design is much more prominent right now than, say, blink tags or animated gifs (that latter case excepting, of course, past-due MeTa threads).
It sounds like you get that it's a bee-in-your-bonnet thing, though, so we've basically achieved the best possible resolution this thread could have.
posted by cortex at 2:58 PM on November 21, 2005
Metafilter: I'd like to introduce a policy of introducing no more policies.
posted by delmoi at 2:59 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by delmoi at 2:59 PM on November 21, 2005
MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter: MetaFilter:
posted by loquacious at 3:01 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by loquacious at 3:01 PM on November 21, 2005
(also likely to precipitate righteous bitching: registered-users-only articles; unremarked embedded audio/video media; browser-rejecting or -crashing web design; horrific popups or brower manipulation; use of comic sans)
posted by cortex at 3:01 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by cortex at 3:01 PM on November 21, 2005
Ok, consider me schooled.
posted by uncle harold at 3:02 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by uncle harold at 3:02 PM on November 21, 2005
Metafilter(x): Metafilter(x+1)
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:06 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:06 PM on November 21, 2005
Ok, now that's just wrong.
posted by loquacious at 3:06 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by loquacious at 3:06 PM on November 21, 2005
uncle harold: The basic problem is that there's no 'central authority', it's pretty much mob rule around here. Only the people who agree with you will follow your guidelines, and other people will feel 'oppressed' and get all pissy about it if you try to remind them. This place doesn't operate by consensus or any type of voting or whatever. Basically something is only bad if Matt actually deletes it, and there is no way matt would be arsed to delete things based on some silly etiquette rule, certainly not with all the political vitriol that flies around these days.
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:10 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:10 PM on November 21, 2005
fandango_matt: Sorry, I'm more the quietly-sobbing-in-a-corner type.
:)
posted by uncle harold at 3:11 PM on November 21, 2005
:)
posted by uncle harold at 3:11 PM on November 21, 2005
Eh, flame out isn't required. We've already had a picture of a bunny. See your official MetaFilter policy manual, Section 409, article 217, Subsections A and B.
posted by loquacious at 3:12 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by loquacious at 3:12 PM on November 21, 2005
loquacious, you're forgetting the exception for pre-emptive Mel Brooks references. Appendix C-2, fourth paragraph. In this situation, uncle harold is still required to threaten limb-severing, though it may be done in small print at his discretion.
posted by cortex at 3:16 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by cortex at 3:16 PM on November 21, 2005
I thought that the pre-emptive Mel Brooks exception clause was strictly for text references or actual photos of Mel Brooks, and therefore not applicable to black-helmeted Rick Moranis references or the broader creative works of Mel Brooks in general? Especially considering references exceeding more than 3 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon?
posted by loquacious at 3:18 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by loquacious at 3:18 PM on November 21, 2005
Maybe I'm going to set up my own rules page in my profile so I can pretend to be in control...
posted by uncle harold at 3:19 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by uncle harold at 3:19 PM on November 21, 2005
Shoot. Good point. I knew I should have sat in on that committee meeting.
posted by cortex at 3:19 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by cortex at 3:19 PM on November 21, 2005
uncle harold: get a few other users to do the same thing, we can get a game of Mefington Crescent going.
posted by cortex at 3:20 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by cortex at 3:20 PM on November 21, 2005
RATS ON THE RAILS!
posted by loquacious at 3:21 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by loquacious at 3:21 PM on November 21, 2005
Flashblock.
Firefox.
Problems solved.
Unless of course you're browsing from a work machine, in which case GET BACK TO WORK!
I think you are missing Uncle Harold's point. It is the constant bitching about the use of Flash that he is complaining about. I have to say I agree, I don't see what n number of comments about how bad Flash is brings to the table, especially when they're rarely accompanied by any reason for this point of view.
posted by chill at 3:24 PM on November 21, 2005
Firefox.
Problems solved.
Unless of course you're browsing from a work machine, in which case GET BACK TO WORK!
I think you are missing Uncle Harold's point. It is the constant bitching about the use of Flash that he is complaining about. I have to say I agree, I don't see what n number of comments about how bad Flash is brings to the table, especially when they're rarely accompanied by any reason for this point of view.
posted by chill at 3:24 PM on November 21, 2005
Can I bitch about people bitching about the bitching about the flash, then?
No, the point isn't missed.
But I am getting dizzy. And I think I like it.
posted by loquacious at 3:31 PM on November 21, 2005
No, the point isn't missed.
But I am getting dizzy. And I think I like it.
posted by loquacious at 3:31 PM on November 21, 2005
But I am getting dizzy. And I think I like it.
Try some mushrooms.
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:33 PM on November 21, 2005
Try some mushrooms.
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:33 PM on November 21, 2005
A short list of similar requests that delight or annoy users (and invoke constant and repeated debate, but hey, we have new users all the time, and even the present users don't see everything):
1. Single Link FPPs
2. Links to Apple Product Launches
3. Links to Major News Sources
4. Links to Political Stories
5. Links to Links that have already been Linked
6. Links to Links that have been Linked to on other sites
7. Something about Groupthink
8. You're just attacking me because of my politics
9. I refute your argument by calling you a left or right winger
10. You're just saying that because your a left or right winger
11. Links to American content
12. Flash (but not JavaScript or Star Wars?)
etc. and so forth
your ideas intrigue me and i would like to subscribe to your newsletter
I just love this line. It always amuses me. I kid you not.
I can't get enough of that bunny.
Seconded. I'm not sure why however. Part of me screams no, but it's overridden by the part of me that says yes.
Try some mushrooms.
What if mushrooms do nought to you. What then?
posted by juiceCake at 3:34 PM on November 21, 2005
1. Single Link FPPs
2. Links to Apple Product Launches
3. Links to Major News Sources
4. Links to Political Stories
5. Links to Links that have already been Linked
6. Links to Links that have been Linked to on other sites
7. Something about Groupthink
8. You're just attacking me because of my politics
9. I refute your argument by calling you a left or right winger
10. You're just saying that because your a left or right winger
11. Links to American content
12. Flash (but not JavaScript or Star Wars?)
etc. and so forth
your ideas intrigue me and i would like to subscribe to your newsletter
I just love this line. It always amuses me. I kid you not.
I can't get enough of that bunny.
Seconded. I'm not sure why however. Part of me screams no, but it's overridden by the part of me that says yes.
Try some mushrooms.
What if mushrooms do nought to you. What then?
posted by juiceCake at 3:34 PM on November 21, 2005
RATS ON THE RAILS!
Is that like Ruby on Rails?
What if mushrooms do nought to you. What then?
Then you're clearly taking the wrong kind.
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:38 PM on November 21, 2005
Is that like Ruby on Rails?
What if mushrooms do nought to you. What then?
Then you're clearly taking the wrong kind.
posted by Paris Hilton at 3:38 PM on November 21, 2005
SPIDERS IN TAXIS!
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:44 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:44 PM on November 21, 2005
Then you're clearly taking the wrong kind.
Eh, that's not always true. You could be taking them too often.
Or, I've also met a few persons who are entirely unable to metabolize specific varieties or perhaps all varieties of them or what have you, and therefore they might as well be eating portabellos.
IE:
Test Subject A ingests homogenized fungal preparation X and within several minutes begins discussing tidbits Jungian psychology interspersed with forays into the literature of Albert Camus with what appears to be no more than a common - but rather aesthetically pleasing - pebble.
Test Subject B ingests the same amount of homogenized fungal preparation X and is extremely bored for the next 8 hours - as his compatriot in mushroom-eating is now quite engrossed in debating metaphysics and philosophy with a rock - and decides to make a really nice sandwich to eat before resigning to go to bed.
Embankment to King's Cross.
posted by loquacious at 3:57 PM on November 21, 2005
Eh, that's not always true. You could be taking them too often.
Or, I've also met a few persons who are entirely unable to metabolize specific varieties or perhaps all varieties of them or what have you, and therefore they might as well be eating portabellos.
IE:
Test Subject A ingests homogenized fungal preparation X and within several minutes begins discussing tidbits Jungian psychology interspersed with forays into the literature of Albert Camus with what appears to be no more than a common - but rather aesthetically pleasing - pebble.
Test Subject B ingests the same amount of homogenized fungal preparation X and is extremely bored for the next 8 hours - as his compatriot in mushroom-eating is now quite engrossed in debating metaphysics and philosophy with a rock - and decides to make a really nice sandwich to eat before resigning to go to bed.
Embankment to King's Cross.
posted by loquacious at 3:57 PM on November 21, 2005
uncle harold.......
I'd like you to meet Paris Hilton.
posted by stirfry at 3:57 PM on November 21, 2005
I'd like you to meet Paris Hilton.
posted by stirfry at 3:57 PM on November 21, 2005
So this thread is against bitching, not against Flash? I'm for that. For fuck's sake, people, Flash is here to stay.
posted by scarabic at 4:17 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by scarabic at 4:17 PM on November 21, 2005
Yes, I was bitching about the bitching, not the flash. A metabitch, if you will.
posted by uncle harold at 4:24 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by uncle harold at 4:24 PM on November 21, 2005
I understood, uncle harold, and I don't really agree;
the bitching helps remind people that they should have a warning in their post, along the lines of [Flash & resizes browser; suck it, haters].
You rarely see people omit [NSFW]. I don't think I've seen this Flash-bitching-about much on Flash Friday posts.
posted by Aknaton at 4:35 PM on November 21, 2005
the bitching helps remind people that they should have a warning in their post, along the lines of [Flash & resizes browser; suck it, haters].
You rarely see people omit [NSFW]. I don't think I've seen this Flash-bitching-about much on Flash Friday posts.
posted by Aknaton at 4:35 PM on November 21, 2005
Jingle rock bell rock. Bunny rock bell. Rock rock Snake plane jingle rock bell. Bell bunny google rock google rock bell. Bush rock bell jingle rock. Jingle pancake bell rock jingle ipod bell. bell bell bell rock jingle bush bell. Jingle rock bell rock I for one bell. Bell bell rock jingle rock rock bell. Bell vibrate bell rock tagline bell. Jingle pony rock bell bell bell rock. Rock rock jingle rock bell.
posted by blue_beetle at 4:44 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by blue_beetle at 4:44 PM on November 21, 2005
jingle viiiiiiibrate
jingle paaaaaancake
blue grey green first post
jingle rooooothko
jingle diiiiiiiios
rock bell jingle rock eff pee pee
posted by cortex at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2005
jingle paaaaaancake
blue grey green first post
jingle rooooothko
jingle diiiiiiiios
rock bell jingle rock eff pee pee
posted by cortex at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2005
Paris Hilton knows how to spell consensus. I will brook no more trashing of Paris Hilton.
And uncle harold, don't worry about it. It was a perfectly reasonable suggestion, but there's nothing MeFites like better than ganging up on a poster with a gripe they don't personally care about. I think my first MeTa post was a complaint about God threads; I've still got the tread marks on my back. But you seem to have learned to go with the flow; good for you.
posted by languagehat at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2005
And uncle harold, don't worry about it. It was a perfectly reasonable suggestion, but there's nothing MeFites like better than ganging up on a poster with a gripe they don't personally care about. I think my first MeTa post was a complaint about God threads; I've still got the tread marks on my back. But you seem to have learned to go with the flow; good for you.
posted by languagehat at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2005
Hello, I just got in, OH MY! they like the photos I posted.
I am sorry I forgot the warning tag, but it worked really well on my machine(circa 99 windows 2K) and my friends mac the pages load in 3 sec flat no problem, perhaps plugin updates are in order. Uncle Harold thank you for taking all the heat.
posted by hortense at 7:31 PM on November 21, 2005
I am sorry I forgot the warning tag, but it worked really well on my machine(circa 99 windows 2K) and my friends mac the pages load in 3 sec flat no problem, perhaps plugin updates are in order. Uncle Harold thank you for taking all the heat.
posted by hortense at 7:31 PM on November 21, 2005
Or, I've also met a few persons who are entirely unable to metabolize specific varieties or perhaps all varieties of them or what have you, and therefore they might as well be eating portabellos.
Wow, that's so sad!
posted by Paris Hilton at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2005
Wow, that's so sad!
posted by Paris Hilton at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2005
I haven't seen a picture of Oolong posted here for a long time...
posted by marxchivist at 8:56 PM on November 21, 2005
posted by marxchivist at 8:56 PM on November 21, 2005
Ok, consider me schooled.
Not yet, you ain't. Now bend over that log.
posted by dg at 10:48 PM on November 21, 2005
Not yet, you ain't. Now bend over that log.
posted by dg at 10:48 PM on November 21, 2005
Does anyone else ever get the impression that MetaTalk threads are not dissimilar to a game of Mornington Crescent?
posted by jack_mo at 3:22 AM on November 22, 2005
posted by jack_mo at 3:22 AM on November 22, 2005
Never noticed it.
posted by loquacious at 4:26 AM on November 22, 2005
posted by loquacious at 4:26 AM on November 22, 2005
12. Flash (but not JavaScript or Star Wars?)
That Lucas has released a scripting language now? Worra bastid! I tell you, that Ja Ja Binks was just the worst blah blahblahblahblah....
posted by i_cola at 5:46 AM on November 22, 2005
That Lucas has released a scripting language now? Worra bastid! I tell you, that Ja Ja Binks was just the worst blah blahblahblahblah....
posted by i_cola at 5:46 AM on November 22, 2005
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by jonson at 2:30 PM on November 21, 2005