Civility in Canadian politics thread. January 12, 2006 3:16 PM   Subscribe

Hildegarde, please clarify. Am I, or anyone else in this thread a "homophobic fuck"?
posted by angrybeaver to Etiquette/Policy at 3:16 PM (85 comments total)

You know, my email address is on my profile. I've made my opinion very plain.
posted by Hildegarde at 3:21 PM on January 12, 2006


You didn't answer my question. I'm working (but can't resist checking the blue), and I plan to post my thoughts on the whole gay marriage thing tonight.

Oh btw, I apologize for the "mindless ideological blindness" comment. I realize that is not true w.r.t. the thread although I'm beginning to think there is a ideological blindness of a different kind...
posted by angrybeaver at 3:26 PM on January 12, 2006


Indeed, keep it down; we've already got a shitty argument going on two threads down.
posted by cortex at 3:27 PM on January 12, 2006


I think I have to side with Hildegarde on this one.
posted by Rothko at 3:28 PM on January 12, 2006


No, but there are certanly some petulant crybabies in there.
posted by delmoi at 3:29 PM on January 12, 2006


Why do you care about my opinion? I don't know you. I'm not going to tell you what you're like.

I find the policies of your chosen political party appalling. If you're going to recommend that the government use the notwithstanding clause in order to prevent me from having a marriage because you happen to not like my sexual orientation (in spite of the fact that marriage is a provincial matter anyway, and in spite of the fact that it's a done deal already), you're going to have to get used to being called homophobic.
posted by Hildegarde at 3:31 PM on January 12, 2006


Wow, all this time I thought Canadians were nice people. You guys are vicious. The whole national healthcare thing is just a front.
posted by nixerman at 3:36 PM on January 12, 2006


Canadians have personalities! Film at 11!
posted by Hildegarde at 3:37 PM on January 12, 2006


I made the incorrect assumption that you were a die-hard Liberal supporter. And you are making incorrect assumptions about my political leanings and views on human rights.
posted by angrybeaver at 3:38 PM on January 12, 2006


I don't actually care about your views of human rights. I care what the Conversative party is promising to do, and why. If you choose to align yourself with that party, you are telling us that those views as representative of you.

Not only are you voting for these people, you've been supporting them all along.

You're the one who wants this to be personal; not that I'm surprised. That's a typical rhetorical trick of people who don't actually believe that anyone they know is homophobic, as if homophobia is synonomous with fire-breathing demons or the tooth fairy.

Use the notwithstanding clause until you folks in the west "get used" to gay people having full rights? That's a homophobic policy. If that's the platform you want to get behind, get used to the label.
posted by Hildegarde at 3:46 PM on January 12, 2006


"angrybeaver" is an awesome nick for someone from Canuckistan to have.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:46 PM on January 12, 2006


You've got to watch out for those firebreathing homophobic crybabies.
posted by delmoi at 3:50 PM on January 12, 2006


Er I mean faries. Homophobic firebreathing faries.
posted by delmoi at 3:51 PM on January 12, 2006


Canadians are polite, polite != nice.
posted by Chuckles at 3:56 PM on January 12, 2006


Anyone ever see that show "Insomniac w/ Dave Atell"? He did a show set in Toronto, and people were huge dicks there. Much more so then any shows set in America.
posted by delmoi at 3:58 PM on January 12, 2006


So these "culture wars" I've been hearing so much about - they're about warm yogurt, then?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:03 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm a homophobic fuck. Who's with me? Homophobic fucks have rights too.
posted by xmutex at 4:12 PM on January 12, 2006


Ignore people like this, angrybeaver. The word "homophobic" is a red flag, a good clue that the person you're debating is incapable of mature intellectual discourse and uninterested in understanding your rationale. People who broadly label all opponents of gay marriage as "homophobic" are like people who broadly label all opponents of affirmative action "racist." They can't play at a serious level, and they're not worth your time.

Although the irony of watching them turn around and whine about "typical rhetorical trick[s]"...I've got to admit, that's a chuckle worth the price of admission.
posted by cribcage at 4:12 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm a homophobic fuck. Who's with me? Homophobic fucks have rights too.

Homophobe is the new Godwin.
posted by tweak at 4:19 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm a homophone. Does that count?
posted by delmoi at 4:21 PM on January 12, 2006


Can I just say that my favourite threads are Canadian politics threads? I just wish five fresh fish and russilvwong had dropped by.
posted by loquax at 4:21 PM on January 12, 2006


I thought you sounded like a homophone, delmoi.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:22 PM on January 12, 2006


People who broadly label all opponents of gay marriage as "homophobic" are like people who broadly label all opponents of affirmative action "racist."

This is such a ridiculous comment I don't know where to begin.

At the very least, arguments made for and against in those two issues are so dissimilar that your simile makes no sense at all.
posted by Rothko at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2006


I dated a bisexual girl once -- that was a lot of fun!
posted by angrybeaver at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm a homophone.

Dell? Mwah!
posted by cortex at 4:27 PM on January 12, 2006


This is why ninjas hate snow.
posted by freebird at 4:32 PM on January 12, 2006


Man, I was all ready for some sorta flameout drama queen action, then I click on the damn thread and it's about Canadian politics. What the fuck? BORING!
posted by klangklangston at 4:33 PM on January 12, 2006


Will some one get that damn homophone! The ringing is driving me crazy.
posted by Mr T at 4:36 PM on January 12, 2006


Rothko, STFU. Anything that you agree with automatically loses credibility. And I point this out as a die-hard Mac evangelist.

So, in the future, please refrain from advocaing Macs too.
posted by veedubya at 4:39 PM on January 12, 2006


Mathowie stole my t!
posted by veedubya at 4:41 PM on January 12, 2006


Would it not actually be good news to discover that not all of your political opponents support the extremes of their party? Libs and conservatives have little real hope of ever changing the minds of their polar opposites (for exactly the reasons represented so well by this thread).

Real change, then - real tolerance for new ideas - can only come from within these groups from people who share some similar ideologies but differ on important aspects of a broad range of ideas.

Instead of demagoguing the other side, would it not be more effective to engage those who say they are not [insert favorite extremist position here] and form a cross-party coalition for change? 'Cause otherwise, you're just turning prospective allies into enemies.

IANAC

/seriousness
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:47 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm confused, vee-dub. Are you saying you don't support marrying canadian Macs?
posted by freebird at 4:48 PM on January 12, 2006


This is why ninjas hate snow.

No, freebird, ninjas hate snowballing.
posted by tweak at 4:57 PM on January 12, 2006


Let's run hobophobia out of town on a rail!



Wait.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:07 PM on January 12, 2006


I'll support anything that means that Alex 'shit for brains' Reynolds will shut the fuck up about how hard it is to have tehGay(tm).

If that means the compulsory marriage of Canadian preteen boys to chain-smoking, seal-clubbing, cross-dressing, Eskimo men, then so be it. You can't put a price on piece of mind.
posted by veedubya at 5:13 PM on January 12, 2006


actually, I agree with Rothko if not with his tone. See, it's homophobic to side with gays not getting the rights that they, as citizens, deserve. Just like how it was racist to deny blacks the right to vote/use white restrooms/earn money/own property, etc... Just because you don't think "I hate blacks" regularly doesn't mean you don't have some racist in you. Now, this isn't to say that everyone's a homophobe or anything like that. But I do believe that there is NO reason to oppose gay marriage unless you're homophobic. it's a little (remember, I said LITTLE) like a cold. You can think "I don't have a cold" all you want, but if you have a fever, cough and runny nose then you got a motherfucking cold. It's not because you're a bad person, it's because you believe something unfortunate for reasons that are, in all likelihood, not your fault.
posted by shmegegge at 5:14 PM on January 12, 2006


there is NO reason to oppose gay marriage unless you're homophobic

What if you think gay folks are great, but believe marriage to be a horrific crime perpetuated against humanity? Then couldn't you support saving this last remnant of freedom from the monstrosity that has eviscerated Love and Sex for everyone else? Without being a homophobe?

entirely hypothetical. I'm getting married in march, amd very excited about it, and support fully gay marriage. I just hate being told there's only one reason to believe anything.
posted by freebird at 5:22 PM on January 12, 2006


No, freebird. Because that would be paternalistic as well.
posted by Hildegarde at 5:24 PM on January 12, 2006


Beside the point, Hilde. I didn't say it would be a good perspective, just not a homophobic one. It would obviously be a fucking stupid perspective, in fact. I just think people are too quick to call "homophobic" when "fucking stupid" might be more appropriate. They're not the same thing.
posted by freebird at 5:27 PM on January 12, 2006


Hildegard thinks I'm a homophobic fuck.

Is she a feminazi?

We don't know.

She won't say.

Choose your Canada.
posted by angrybeaver at 5:49 PM on January 12, 2006


My Canada is made of ice cream.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 5:59 PM on January 12, 2006


Rocky Road, apparently.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:03 PM on January 12, 2006


Or vanilla - choose your Canada.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:04 PM on January 12, 2006


Sorry, but there's no getting around the FACT that it's French Vanilla.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:06 PM on January 12, 2006


You're sorry that your political party has extremists in it?

Not as sorry as we'll be.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:08 PM on January 12, 2006


Feminazi? Did you just fall out of 1991, or something?
posted by Hildegarde at 6:11 PM on January 12, 2006


Hmm. Is it possible to use the phrase "feminazi" without sounding like a reactionary dinosaur upset that no-one's barefoot in the kitchen making supper? Science may never know, but I'd say the empirical evidence strongly supports an intial hypothesis of Shut the Hell Up.

OP: Jinx!
posted by freebird at 6:14 PM on January 12, 2006


Rothko's right on this one, unfortunately. There is no reason to oppose gay marriage outside of homophobia or appeasement thereof.

Also, in response to some of the confusion in this thread: I'd argue that there's a difference between homophobia and simple discrimination based on orientation. Myself, I generally get along much better with gay men than straight and I'd be lying if I said I didn't factor that in at least subconsciously when meeting new people. That isn't homophobia, but it is discriminatory.
posted by Ryvar at 6:14 PM on January 12, 2006


Freebird, your snippy comeback was way better. Cheers!
posted by Hildegarde at 6:17 PM on January 12, 2006


"I generally get along much better with gay men than straight"

Yeah, but you're a big fag.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:17 PM on January 12, 2006


I always thought "Feminazi" sounded like a perfume.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:19 PM on January 12, 2006


Rothko's right on this one, unfortunately. There is no reason to oppose gay marriage outside of homophobia or appeasement thereof.

I wish this one would get put to bed. I oppose gay marriage because I oppose straight marriage. Call me a homophobe or an appeaser, if it'll make you feel better, but saying it doesn't make it so.
posted by Kwantsar at 6:20 PM on January 12, 2006


Are you married, Kwantsar? Everyone I know who says this is married. How does that happen?
posted by Hildegarde at 6:22 PM on January 12, 2006


Crash: outted :(

Kwantsar: that's a reason to oppose 'marriage' - I put the qualifier 'gay' in front for a reason. If you're opposed to gay marriage in particular, then yeah that's homophobic.
posted by Ryvar at 6:24 PM on January 12, 2006


Are you married, Kwantsar? Everyone I know who says this is married. How does that happen?

Careful what you wish for..
posted by Space Coyote at 6:25 PM on January 12, 2006


Marriage is gay.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:25 PM on January 12, 2006


Are you married, Kwantsar? Everyone I know who says this is married. How does that happen?

Well, for starters, I kind of resent having had to completely change my legal status just so I could continue to get health insurance after moving from the West coast to the East. That could breed some resentment towards marriage amongst people who are.
posted by Ryvar at 6:26 PM on January 12, 2006


Are you married, Kwantsar? Everyone I know who says this is married. How does that happen?

Nope. Dunno.
posted by Kwantsar at 6:28 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm reminded of these posters that were plastered all over campus when I was in college. They read, "HAVE COURAGE. OPPOSE HOMOPHOBIA." I noticed one in the main concourse where someone had crossed out "HOMOPHOBIA" and made their own addition so the poster read:


HAVE COURAGE.
OPPOSE HOMOPHOBIA. confusing gayspeak
posted by antifreez_ at 6:29 PM on January 12, 2006


Could you clarify, please, Ryvar? I don't quite understand that last statement. No snark (for once), I'm just tired and dense.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:29 PM on January 12, 2006


homophobic fuck? are you twelve years old?
posted by angrybeaver at 6:37 PM on January 12, 2006


It's Raining Florence Henderson:

We moved from Seattle to Boston. In Seattle as a domestic partner to my current wife, I covered under her health insurance (which is a much bigger deal for me financially than most people). In Boston (of all places, go figure) I was not, and in order for me to stay covered we had to get married right then. We would have done it eventually in any case - and I'd definitely go the Vegas route again since I hate ceremonies - but the mandated immediacy of it has created in me a resentment towards the current marital/legal status 'system.'
posted by Ryvar at 6:38 PM on January 12, 2006


homophobic fuck? are you twelve years old?

A lot of my classmates thought that bandying about 'faggot' was way cool when I was 12.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:40 PM on January 12, 2006


Ah - I get you, Ryvar. Yeah, that would suck. I've also heard of instances where insurance problems actually prompted people to get divorced, too. Lots of problems in the way that's set up, across the board. Thanks for the follow up. Hope it turns out well for you.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:48 PM on January 12, 2006


I like the HomoPhone. It's like the Batman's Bat-Phone, but it's bright pink and it rings with little twinkling sounds. "Helloooo, gorgeous!"
posted by fandango_matt at 7:04 PM on January 12, 2006




ring wring ring wring ring wring ring.. homophone
posted by Space Coyote at 7:30 PM on January 12, 2006


Rothko, STFU. Anything that you agree with automatically loses credibility. And I point this out as a die-hard Mac evangelist

Oh goody, the collective IQ just dropped another 500 points with that comment.
posted by Rothko at 8:11 PM on January 12, 2006


delmoi, what the shuddering goatfuck is a "farie"???????
posted by quonsar at 8:45 PM on January 12, 2006


In Seattle as a domestic partner to my current wife...

Are you planning an upgrade in the near future?
posted by xmutex at 8:53 PM on January 12, 2006


This thread needs Vagisil.
posted by mischief at 9:11 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm proud to say that out of all the times I have been called a " _______ fuck", the adjective that precedes the fuck has never been "homophobic".

Lazy, selfish, disappointing, brief, lousy, dead, regret-inducing, convenient... maybe homophobic isn't so bad after all.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:19 PM on January 12, 2006


Are you planning an upgrade in the near future?

Sort of. Technically speaking my current wife is fourth of the seven foretold in Revelations.
posted by Ryvar at 10:06 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm a phonophobe.

What are we talking about? Canada is too damn cold.
posted by delmoi at 11:44 PM on January 12, 2006


I'm a phonophobe.

Me too. Who'd'a thunk it? Me and delmoi -- common ground.

The internet is a beautiful place.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:04 AM on January 13, 2006


I'm a phonophobe.

You don't like sounds?
posted by languagehat at 6:02 AM on January 13, 2006


I think they're actually afraid of sounds.
posted by loquax at 6:44 AM on January 13, 2006


So if I marry a gay Beaver Cleaver does that make me a homophobic fuck?
posted by jonmc at 6:51 AM on January 13, 2006


I wish this one would get put to bed. I oppose gay marriage because I oppose straight marriage. Call me a homophobe or an appeaser, if it'll make you feel better, but saying it doesn't make it so.

You don't oppose gay marriage, you oppose marriage. Different rhetoric altogether.
posted by Rothko at 6:54 AM on January 13, 2006


If you're opposed to gay marriage in particular, then yeah that's homophobic.

Well, some pro-gay marriage guest blogger at Volokh.com a few months back went out of his way to say that you might oppose gay marriage because you were afraid that it would de-link marriage from reproduction, or some such thing.

You may think that this argument (or whatever his actual, smarter argument was) is stupid; but there is a possibility that you can oppose gay marriage for non-homophobic reasons.

Also, it's safe to say that the bulk of people who oppose gay marriage do in fact do so for homophobic reasons.
posted by ibmcginty at 8:47 AM on January 13, 2006


Yes, but only if you then oppose marriage for infertile people, or people who definitely don't want kids.
posted by occhiblu at 10:12 AM on January 13, 2006


>I'm a phonophobe.

>>You don't like sounds?


Telephones.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:11 PM on January 13, 2006


Stav, that may be the first time I've seen you not get a joke. You feeling OK?
posted by languagehat at 5:34 PM on January 13, 2006


Overhung.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:39 PM on January 13, 2006


I always figured you were huge.
posted by freebird at 5:59 PM on January 13, 2006


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