Sidebar Nomination OTD March 8, 2007 9:56 AM   Subscribe

I'd like to nominate this fantastic, almost entirely civil thread about Mormonism for the sidebar. It's really been an exceptional example of how informative AskMe can be when discussion and knowledge-sharing are maximized with minimal interpersonal snark.
posted by scrump to MetaFilter-Related at 9:56 AM (74 comments total)

Yes, I am very sorry I flagged that as early on I thought it would be chat filter but it has turned out to be fascinating.
posted by By The Grace of God at 10:07 AM on March 8, 2007


You lost me at "almost entirely civil".

jk it was a good read
posted by Mister_A at 10:13 AM on March 8, 2007


We can be incivil here, if you want, Mister_A!

You smell.
posted by scrump at 10:17 AM on March 8, 2007


Thanks for pointing me to that thread—it is indeed excellent reading.
posted by languagehat at 10:22 AM on March 8, 2007


Nthed. Fascinating read, and people have been pretty good.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:29 AM on March 8, 2007


I'll vote for a sidebar. I love the sidebar!
posted by cgc373 at 10:32 AM on March 8, 2007


flagged fantastic. thxu.
posted by boo_radley at 10:36 AM on March 8, 2007


Some interesting things in there, but not sidebarworthy.
posted by mattbucher at 10:48 AM on March 8, 2007


mattbucher: Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by Mister_A at 10:49 AM on March 8, 2007


I sent that link to the large number of my friends who used to live in Utah and the subset who used to be Mormons. It was fantastic to see a really interesting discussion in a thread that could have gone down in flames. Sidebar!
posted by donovan at 11:10 AM on March 8, 2007


We already have a Mormon sidebar item. No Sidebar!
posted by ND¢ at 11:15 AM on March 8, 2007


OTD?!?
posted by Rhomboid at 11:23 AM on March 8, 2007


OTD = "or teh death". When you make a suggestion on the internet followed by OTD you are saying that if your suggestion isn't followed that you will kill yourself. Chopping off your hand is also acceptable. It is pretty hardcore.
posted by ND¢ at 11:30 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]


I'd like to bypass the sidebar suggestion and go directly to proposing mormon.metafilter.com.

It's an interesting thread, but 2 Mormon AskMe threads on the sidebar is a bit much.
posted by graymouser at 11:42 AM on March 8, 2007


We already have a Mormon sidebar item. No Sidebar!

It's an interesting thread, but 2 Mormon AskMe threads on the sidebar is a bit much.


I'm not following the reasoning here. If they both point to good threads worth reading, what is the harm if there are two sidebar items related to the same religion?
posted by found missing at 12:02 PM on March 8, 2007


If we keep sidebarring Mormonism, then Mitt Romney will have won.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:04 PM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]


I'm not following the reasoning here. If they both point to good threads worth reading, what is the harm if there are two sidebar items related to the same religion?

Because then all the other religions will demand a sidebar space of their own. Duh.
posted by Gamblor at 12:12 PM on March 8, 2007


I fail to see how anything was "answered" here, so I don't see it being sidebar-worthy. The question was "how do you reconcile your faith with the proof that it's all bullshit?" And the answers from the faithful were, "It's not bullshit."

So, what'd we learn here? I guess we learned that Mormons are nice people. But we all knew that.

* you know, except for the Mormons that still demand revenge by blood as an inherent part of their faith, which is why Utah still allowed executions by firing squad until 2004
posted by frogan at 12:13 PM on March 8, 2007 [3 favorites]


The first rule of the sidebar is you do not talk about the sidebar in MeTa.

The second rule of the sidebar is you do not get to "nominate" shit for the sidebar (you flag as fantastic and wait for consensus to build).
posted by mattbucher at 12:14 PM on March 8, 2007


...what is the harm if there are two sidebar items related to the same religion?

When I am hanging out with a group of nerds and we discuss what websites we are reppin, and I say Metafilter, I don't want them saying "Metafilter? Isn't that the site that is obsessed with Mormons?" I will look like a freak. A mormon-obsessed freak.
posted by ND¢ at 12:35 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]


IM N UR SIDEBAR MORMONING IT UP!
posted by jefbla at 1:14 PM on March 8, 2007


Dear AskMe. Yes, I have an appointment to see a doctor. But, in the meantime, can the hivemind help me with this question? My sidebar doesn't seem to be working. Is it possible that it has been Mormoned?
posted by found missing at 1:24 PM on March 8, 2007


Finding it hard to believe nobody's made the [mormonism inside] joke yet.
posted by gleuschk at 1:29 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]


How about, for threads with less than 5 comments a big bar saying "IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE TOPIC WALK AWAY" or something similar. Not that I'm a saint in this regard, but I always cringe on the first 5 or so comments in long threads like this.
posted by geoff. at 1:31 PM on March 8, 2007


There was a thread about living with Mormans on the sidebar last month. If you guys aren't careful you might end up on a list.
posted by The God Complex at 1:54 PM on March 8, 2007


what is the harm if there are two sidebar items related to the same religion?

My friends, who are smart people, think it looks unprofessional to have two different Morman threads on the sidebar. It's very Religion 1.0.
posted by The God Complex at 1:56 PM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]


I fail to see how anything was "answered" here, so I don't see it being sidebar-worthy. The question was "how do you reconcile your faith with the proof that it's all bullshit?" And the answers from the faithful were, "It's not bullshit."

Actually, the answers were "it's not proof."

Oh, and count me as a vote against sidebarring any more Mormon threads.
posted by JekPorkins at 2:50 PM on March 8, 2007


I am impressed with the civility of the thread, and it's an interesting read, which isn't terribly surprising given the focus in Mormon culture on education, articulateness and the number of people in there who have served missions (ie trained and spent time actively explaining the church to non-members).

But the take-away lesson I'm getting from it is mainly the following: there is wide variation in different areas of the country, different wards, and different families in such things as how welcoming LDS people are of skeptical discussion; how rigid gender roles are; what people take as fact about Joseph Smith's life, etc.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:47 PM on March 8, 2007


(Which is, of course, not surprising at all, nor is it any criticism of the church. I'm sure it would be true of any church.) I just mean, I don't feel like there's a single univocal reply to some of the doctrinal questions; instead there's a representative range of ways the doctrine is understood.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:50 PM on March 8, 2007


Sidebarrification, being manual, is soooo Web 0.5.

What we're needing here is some algorithmic flambammery that will automagically populate a best.metafilter.com with threads that have some High Weighted Value of Excellence derived from positive flags and thread and comment favorites!

Or not. It's still early here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:59 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]


I am so interested in the Mormon faith, it just seems so fantastic.

Not sure about the sidebar, but thanks for pointing it out and allowing me to read it.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 4:06 PM on March 8, 2007


I also vote for the sidebar! Metafilter should have a sidebar! It would be awesome!
posted by Kwine at 4:14 PM on March 8, 2007


I'm with Kwine!

Wait, I said this already.
posted by cgc373 at 4:17 PM on March 8, 2007


My friends, who are smart people, think it looks unprofessional to have two different Morman threads on the sidebar.

If it were black type on a white background, I could see their point....
posted by Benny Andajetz at 4:17 PM on March 8, 2007


Include this in the sidebar.

Yes, I know we had a Mormon thread already. But with a Mormon presidential candidate Mormonism is now, it's hip, it's the future. It will be hotter that the iPhone.

Plus. They is my peeps! The better you all understand them Mormons the closer you will be to me— a direct descendant of John Ira Allsop who was commanded by Brigham Young his-self to found the Gem Valley.

The sooner you understand me the sooner I can complete you all as people and we can commence with the Rapture.
posted by tkchrist at 4:39 PM on March 8, 2007


But you already complete me.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:41 PM on March 8, 2007


I'm with cgc373 and Kwine! Goooooooo sidebar!
posted by Kwine at 4:43 PM on March 8, 2007


stavros: your idea is asking to turn MetaFilter into a form of Digg. I dunno. Smells bad.
posted by chlorus at 4:43 PM on March 8, 2007


Heh. So it is.

On the other hand, the Popular Favorites tab does the same kind of thing already...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:50 PM on March 8, 2007


But you already complete me.

Did you do the little sign language thing when you typed that? I felt that you did. 'Cause I got all warm squishy inside.

*blushes*
posted by tkchrist at 4:57 PM on March 8, 2007


How about, for threads with less than 5 comments a big bar saying "IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE TOPIC WALK AWAY" or something similar.

How about for all threads. Man, I'm sick of people offering half-assed guesses on topics they know fuck all about.

Oh, and I think the sidebar should be twice as wide and smell of curry.
posted by languagehat at 5:43 PM on March 8, 2007


Earthy lamb curry, or tomato-y chicken curry?
posted by ersatzkat at 5:45 PM on March 8, 2007


"Earthy lamb curry, or tomato-y chicken curry?"

IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE TOPIC WALK AWAY
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:51 PM on March 8, 2007


GET YOU A WEBSITE
posted by loquacious at 5:55 PM on March 8, 2007


Curry 2.0
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:05 PM on March 8, 2007


I wanted to add a comment to that thread that I truly believe would be helpful but might be taken by some as facile. Then I realized that, whether or not it would be facile, it didn't answer the question.

So I'm posting it here.

I'm a pretty much lifelong atheist (well, prior to atheism, casual agnosticism) and I grew up in Eastern New Mexico in a small town, which culturally is Texas. Mormons were very definitely a small minority relative to the overwhelming conservative Protestants. Anyway, the point is that I'm very familiar with both Bible-thumping Protestants and moderately familiar with Mormons.1

So, here's what I want to say: as a class of people that I've known in my life, in general but certainly among devout religionists, Mormons are easily the nicest, kindest, most generous, most helpful people I've known. And I had a college friend at St. John's College (which is secular), where freethinking and intellectual integrity is paramount, who was a devout Mormon and although it's the case that lots of things collided with his beliefs, he nevertheless was an accomplished critical thinker and very intelligent. He, too—I don't how else to say it—was an unusually good person.

Now, I don't know what the significance of my experience is. It's my own experience...and I don't even know what conclusion I should draw from it. But it's always given me pause, especially when I'm inclined to be either ridiculing or dismissive of either the believers or their faith. I also strongly suspect that the respect and amicability in that thread, on the part of the Mormons and ex-Mormons, anyway, is no accident.

Thus I found frogan's comment above interesting.

None of this is to say that there aren't things that some of us object to in both the culture and the faith. These two things in opposition (from my perspective) confuse me, but what I don't like doesn't blind me to what I do; and furthermore, the part I like has made enough of an impression on me that I feel the need to, um, testify to it.

I should say, though, that I've seen this sort of goodness among believers of all kinds, again and again—it's just that they're usually a small minority while that's not been my experience with Mormons. I've known goodness in non-believers, too, of course. But faith is a pathway to unusual amounts of goodness or, sadly, badness. In my opinion.

And the idea of limiting the number of sidebars by topic is a bad one. Let's just stick with the plain ole' "merit" test, shall we? Not that I think the thread (yet) qualifies2.

1. The sweetest single kiss of my entire life was at 16 with a breathtakingly lovely Mormon girl who, I couldn't believe, fancied me. Alas, we were, nevertheless, star-crossed. I don't blame the LDS, though. She was also from another town, our high-school's hated rival. Though that didn't bother us. It was our incompatible beliefs that didn't work. Maybe I should have converted. Believe me, the girl in my memories might well have been worth it.

2. But with a corrected color-scheme, maybe.

posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:04 PM on March 8, 2007


Hey, stav: we're nearly the same age. Do memories like those of my first footnote ever basically thump you in the chest and knock you against the wall with the power of, well, whatever it is? Nostalgia is such a weak word. I hated adolescence. But for that one kiss, I'd go back.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:17 PM on March 8, 2007


Or not. It's still early here.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:59 PM PST on March 8 [+


NO! You'll kill MeFi and it will become the "mefiosphere" or some such bullshit. don't do that... its been done, to death.
posted by infini at 10:26 PM on March 8, 2007


Do memories like those of my first footnote ever basically thump you in the chest and knock you against the wall with the power of, well, whatever it is?

Oh, aye, most definitely. Sometimes the oddest things trigger it. I wrote this about having such a moment a while back. Living in Korea there aren't as many triggers (locations, smells, people, whatever) as there might otherwise be, though. I don't know if that's good or bad. Probably bad, as my long-term memory is... intermittent, and needs all the help it can get.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:33 PM on March 8, 2007


You should totally do this, Matt! Like how Newsweek has religion on the cover every other week because IT SELLS! You could totally be selling recumbent bikes or whatever shit it is you sell on that space I adblocked two years ago to Mormons. And they have a lot of kids along with several wives and don't care about looking like wieners so they would buy an assload of recumbent bicycles.
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:06 PM on March 8, 2007


Do memories like those of my first footnote ever basically thump you in the chest and knock you against the wall with the power of, well, whatever it is?

This, my friend, is why mankind developed agrarian civilization, settled down and began brewing and consuming ridiculous amounts of alcohol.

Remember the secret: Alcohol. Copious amounts of alcohol.
posted by loquacious at 11:08 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]


I want to hear what Mayor Peace, Love and Unity has to say about it.

I suspect he'd say "Less talking, more sucking" like he did last time I met him. What a fucking weirdo.

I'll never eat another popsicle in my life. I still have brainfreeze. Why the fuck would anyone want to eat 5 boxes of them in a sitting? And why all the pictures?
posted by loquacious at 11:11 PM on March 8, 2007


Remember the secret: Alcohol. Copious amounts of alcohol.

I endorse this point of view.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:16 PM on March 8, 2007


And Matt, if you do add that masterpiece to the sidebar, you should open up some real estate for ads for funny underpants and licensed Moroni Golden Plates Secret Decoder Rings because your server logs are going to look like you're getting a DDoS attack from Utah, my man!

Add a cloying painting of Jesus looking weepy to the sidebar and maybe you can have someone from a developing nation pretend to be you; pretending to be you while you laugh at us as you're drinking banana daiquiris from your porch in the US Virgin Islands. Stop thinking about it and do it!
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:20 PM on March 8, 2007


I think it should be added to the sidebar. Because I am very positive on appearing positive on religion. And not just so that women of different faiths might sleep with me.

I also think it is important to be considerate of peoples' religions in a slightly condescending way so that religious people might vote Democratic. Because I am a Democrat. And not just so that I appear sensitive, but also because the ends justify the insincere means. I forget what the ends are exactly, but they're not the republican ones anyway and that's what makes us different. So I assure you that I do not laugh at religious people or being dirty, uneducated and superstitious when I am out with my friends, even when I am confident that they think just like I do. Because this is a democracy and what is important is that anyone else's vote counts as much as mine whether I am a cynic expertly pandering like a Republican or a cynic clumsily pandering to them from the heart like a Democrat.
posted by Mayor Peace Love and Unity at 11:34 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]


You're cut off, pal. You've had enough.
posted by loquacious at 12:49 AM on March 9, 2007


I think more than one Mormon post to the sidebar in a three month period and I start getting waaaaaay too many visits from my polite blonde neighbors up the road at the Joseph Smith Memorial (where they say he had only one wife). So, no.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:33 AM on March 9, 2007


Hey since when did you start commenting Jessamyn? I thought you were in Aussie land with your sister?
posted by wheelieman at 5:19 AM on March 9, 2007


among devout religionists, Mormons are easily the nicest, kindest, most generous, most helpful people I've known

Same here. For what that's worth.

Hey since when did you start commenting Jessamyn? I thought you were in Aussie land with your sister?

That's not Jessamyn, that's someone from a developing nation pretending to be Jessamyn; the real Jessamyn is drinking banana daiquiris with the real Matt. Things are about to get weird in MetaLand...
posted by languagehat at 5:59 AM on March 9, 2007


jessamyn wrote up a series of time-delayed comments before she left, so that Matt and I could keep people guessing—all we have to do is track down threads where they might fit into context and then hit the green button.

This thread was a surprise and a relief—we thought initially that we'd have to dump that one into the anildash thread and explain it away as a bizarre metaphor, with "polite blond visitors" as euphemism for "professional web designers" etc etc.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:05 AM on March 9, 2007


You could totally be selling recumbent bikes or whatever shit it is you sell on that space I adblocked two years ago to Mormons.

better yet, Matt could start selling "Reformed Egyptian" (chuckle) decoder rings!!! he'll make millions!!!

now we only need languagehat to figure this nonsense out -- decode the "caractors" and make Matt a rich man, professore!
posted by matteo at 8:16 AM on March 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


By the way, the "civility" that is being lauded is due, in part, to appropriate pruning of a few less-than-civil comments by the mods. Just thought that should be recognized.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:52 AM on March 9, 2007


pardonyou?, the "I love cortex" threads are elsewhere. There will be no cortex-loving here.

Mayor Peace Love and Unity, I clicked on the little plus next to your comment, you magnificent bastard.
posted by Mister_A at 9:01 AM on March 9, 2007


As a devout Atheist, I'd just like to say that I don't believe in The Sidebar.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:29 AM on March 9, 2007


Isn't "devout atheist" an oxymoron? Anyway, none of this will matter after I free Xenu from his watery tomb. Or Cthulhu. Right—none of this will matter after I free Xenu from Cthulhu.
posted by Mister_A at 9:37 AM on March 9, 2007


I always dug Xenu's chakrum .
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:57 AM on March 9, 2007


And, yes - it's an oxymoron. Also a lie. I'm an Atheist nihilist pointillist: I don't believe that I don't believe their's a point to anything.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:02 AM on March 9, 2007


"their's a point" meaning, of course, you.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:04 AM on March 9, 2007


I love his sash.
posted by Mister_A at 10:16 AM on March 9, 2007


now we only need languagehat to figure this nonsense out

matteo, that's an original copy of the Treaty of Westphalia.
posted by languagehat at 11:16 AM on March 9, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm all in favor of more sidebar stories about Moominism.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:28 PM on March 9, 2007


Did they discuss Orgazmo? Cause they really should have talked about Orgazmo. Definite sidebar material.
posted by dreamsign at 1:48 AM on March 10, 2007


I second George_Spiggott. Cute little cow-troll-thing stories for the win.
posted by Alterscape at 11:23 AM on March 10, 2007


no wonder I feel at home here, its so subtly snarky it makes my heart sing and feet take a little bouncy step.
posted by infini at 2:42 PM on March 10, 2007


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