Hymenplasty? April 30, 2007 1:21 PM   Subscribe

Anyone know what happened to the Hymenplasty thread? Wondering why it might have been deleted?
posted by Azaadistani to Etiquette/Policy at 1:21 PM (97 comments total)

Here
posted by puke & cry at 1:26 PM on April 30, 2007


She killed it right in the middle of my zinger about the Grand Mufti of Egypt too. Now you'll never know, ha.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 1:29 PM on April 30, 2007


Apparently single link msn lol cheating sluts filter is still okay, though.
posted by transona5 at 1:30 PM on April 30, 2007


Apparently single link msn lol cheating sluts filter is still okay, though.

Well it sure wasn't flagged the way the other one was.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:43 PM on April 30, 2007


Gotta hand it to the noob, he did get out of there, and seemed to value my advice. (?!)
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:44 PM on April 30, 2007


I'm not one to argue with the omniscient and omnipotent mods, but the post was deleted after 88 comments and four-and-a-half hours. That doesn't seem fair. Agreed, it could have been better.

The post could have had some background and context from other cultures, but waiting this long to delete it prevents the original poster or someone else from putting up a better post, because the discussion had already run it's course.

Oh well.
posted by Pastabagel at 1:49 PM on April 30, 2007


I agree, Pastabagel.

Also, if it's the one link policy, how come this blatant attempt at viral marketing has not been deleted? Solo links to shopping sites should not be MeFi worthy, no matter how steeply priced the products may be.
posted by Azaadistani at 1:53 PM on April 30, 2007


SHAME on the Mods for not living at the keyboard to catch everything within the first 5 mins!

*coff* of course in my twisted universe I'd wait and delete crappy FPPs if they inspired comment counts of over 100 comments.

Many times the more comments there are, the worse it is.
posted by edgeways at 1:56 PM on April 30, 2007 [1 favorite]


Excellent deletion reason Jessamyn.
posted by serazin at 1:58 PM on April 30, 2007


I flagged the post as noise, made several comments therein, riled up the OP, and got a favorite on a Freudian joke. What does this all mean?
posted by Burhanistan at 2:01 PM on April 30, 2007


Good deletion. It was a crappy, depressing thread.
posted by languagehat at 2:07 PM on April 30, 2007


That post was restored to its original unposted state so that it wouldn't look like a whore.
posted by ND¢ at 2:08 PM on April 30, 2007 [3 favorites]


While I agree the OP made an ass of himself in there, I would like to credit him or her for the line "did someone sew your hymen on crooked?" which I will heretofore use when addressing a particularly impatient or upset colleague. Bravo.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 2:18 PM on April 30, 2007 [1 favorite]


*coff* of course in my twisted universe I'd wait and delete crappy FPPs if they inspired comment counts of over 100 comments.

I'd take edgeways' proposal one step further; any post that garnered 100 or more comments would be automatically deleted.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:21 PM on April 30, 2007


I'm not one to argue with the omniscient and omnipotent mods, but the post was deleted after 88 comments and four-and-a-half hours. That doesn't seem fair.

But assuming it wasn't intentionally left open for four hours as some sort of bizarre honeypot experiment, why does that matter? Most people never see the things that get deleted very, very promptly, but that's just the logistics of the circumstances. A four-day-old post is probably not going to get suddenly deleted, granted, but four hours is nothing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:22 PM on April 30, 2007


bizarre honeypot experiment

ixnay on the ussyfilterpay.
posted by COBRA! at 2:34 PM on April 30, 2007


I've participated in some bizarre honeypot experiments in my time.
posted by ND¢ at 2:35 PM on April 30, 2007


That poster has a tendency to overmoderate his own threads [16 here, and 25 in this one]. It was a shame in the latter one because it kind of ruined a decent FPP for me.
posted by yeti at 2:42 PM on April 30, 2007


I thought it was a crappy deletion, but then I went and read some of the comments in the thread. Euthanasia comes to mind.
posted by caddis at 2:42 PM on April 30, 2007


Also, if it's the one link policy

It's not "the one link policy." There is no "one link policy." The deletion reason says "single link wire lol muslim women news&pussyfilter." What you take away from that should not be that there is a "one link policy," but rather that there is a "single link wire lol muslim women news&pussyfilter policy." Adjust posting styles accordingly.
posted by Partial Law at 3:35 PM on April 30, 2007


Oh crap. I was just about to put up a killer single link wire lol muslim women news&pussyfilter post. Now you'll all have to go to your graves having missed it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:45 PM on April 30, 2007


seems to me like the one about raising someone else's kid doesn't compare to this one in terms of crappy one link "look how weird the other culture is" badness. sure it's one news link, but those don't get deleted just for being one link and news. the fact is that men being conned into raising someone else's kid isn't often covered in the news. further, i suspect that an interesting article written on domestic violence or some other form of men abusing female partners wouldn't be deleted either, unless it were a simply terrible article or of no interest to anyone for some reason. i can't speak for everyone, but i hadn't really ever read an article about the phenomenon of being conned into raising someone else's kid before, and I certainly didn't find it funny because i wanted to laugh at another culture.
posted by shmegegge at 3:47 PM on April 30, 2007


how is it that user 19195 got this far without knowing how to find deleted threads?
posted by quonsar at 3:52 PM on April 30, 2007


He called in sick on orientation day.
posted by found missing at 3:54 PM on April 30, 2007


HURF DURF VAGINA EATER?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:55 PM on April 30, 2007


seems to me like the one about raising someone else's kid doesn't compare to this one in terms of crappy one link "look how weird the other culture is" badness.

I would say it does in terms of crappy one-link "look how weird the other gender is" badness. (I don't think either one should have been deleted.)
posted by transona5 at 4:57 PM on April 30, 2007


transona5 : "I would say it does in terms of crappy one-link 'look how weird the other gender is' badness."

And it clearly does in terms of "being written in the English language", but doesn't compare remotely in the sense of "the link being written in the form of a sentence".

There are probably an infinite number of baselines in which the two compare equally, and an infinite number where they don't.
posted by Bugbread at 5:05 PM on April 30, 2007


It was deleted before I got the chance to say LOLSILYSTR8PEPL!!!!!
posted by matty at 5:20 PM on April 30, 2007


Look, the important thing is that someone who didn't like the discussion and happened to have admin powers expressed their opinion with extreme vengeance. You better watch out or you could be next.
posted by DU at 5:28 PM on April 30, 2007


You better watch out or you could be next.

Yes. If only there were some level of transparency, like a publicly stated reason for deletion, or perhaps even a separate forum in which the users could ask questions of the admins.... Instead, we have an opaque fascist oligarchy! When, oh!, when we will be liberated from this intolerable oppression?!
posted by occhiblu at 5:36 PM on April 30, 2007 [1 favorite]


DU : "You better watch out or you could be next."

I think you intended your comment to be all scary and big-brotherish, but when your argument is "if you want to post a shitty link, you better watch out, or your post could be deleted next", the reaction you're going to get probably isn't the reaction you were hoping for.

(Like a parent threatening to turn the car around and go home if you don't settle down, when you're on your way to some boring event that you didn't want to go to in the first place)
posted by Bugbread at 5:54 PM on April 30, 2007


Instead, we have an opaque fascist oligarchy! When, oh!, when we will be liberated from this intolerable oppression?!

lol (posts about) bush sux amirite?
posted by ND¢ at 5:57 PM on April 30, 2007


those don't get deleted just for being one link and news

They should. Except for extreme news events.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:11 PM on April 30, 2007


I tend to agree, but unfortunately I'm confining myself to talking about what I perceive as the metafilter we have, rather than the metafilter we want.
posted by shmegegge at 6:19 PM on April 30, 2007


NNNNnowwwwww on Faux News, eXXXtreme News! Do you dare to watch it?
posted by five fresh fish at 6:24 PM on April 30, 2007


...Is this something you'll had to have have had lost...??
posted by acro at 7:04 PM on April 30, 2007


You better watch out or you could be next.

We've watched for too long already. Our caution and self-censoring only works into the plans of the Metafilter Establishment. The time for cowardly watching our backs is over! The cowtowing to the deletion of poorly executed posts must end, and it must end now!

We must unite, and storm mathowie's computer room with analog versions of our digital pitchforks and torchs. It will be a glorious coup de server!

*burns cortex in effigy*
posted by CKmtl at 7:14 PM on April 30, 2007


Dang. And I come here just for the pussyfilter.
posted by The Deej at 7:19 PM on April 30, 2007


Many sorts of pussyfilter are fine; this one was not.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:25 PM on April 30, 2007 [1 favorite]


"It was deleted before I got the chance to say LOLSILYSTR8PEPL!!!!!"

Yeah, yeah, just wait until people are sewing up to fake anal virginity.

And five fresh fish stole my Xtreme news snark.

"Many sorts of pussyfilter are fine; this one was not."

Like, some sort of vaginal screen door that keeps bugs out? Or more like a cone for coffee?
posted by klangklangston at 7:47 PM on April 30, 2007


Hymenplasty?

Sometimes I wish I read MeTa via RSS.
posted by kosem at 8:12 PM on April 30, 2007


mefisearch suggests 3 links, one link or Africa connection is common, but whatever
posted by acro at 8:41 PM on April 30, 2007


This was a terrible deletion. Hymenoplasty is an interesting operation, that poses genuine questions around medical ethics, and the evolution of female genital cosmetic surgery. Many of the comments in that thread were fascinating. The poor comments should have been axed, rather than lazily deleting an otherwise excellent thread.
posted by roofus at 1:57 AM on May 1, 2007


Kirth Gerson writes: Oh crap. I was just about to put up a killer single link wire lol muslim women news&pussyfilter post. Now you'll all have to go to your graves having missed it.

No worries here, Kirth. I wouldn't have clicked on your link anyway.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:16 AM on May 1, 2007


Not humble enough, eh?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:56 AM on May 1, 2007


Not humble enough, eh?

Hee hee!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:25 AM on May 1, 2007


Also, if it's the one link policy

I see this all the time, and I want to clarify in case Partial Law wasn't clear enough.

THERE. IS. NO. ONE. LINK. POLICY.

There is only a crappy-post policy. Those two characteristics tend to overlap a bit, but by no means are they synonymous. Man, some <big> would be nice right about now.
posted by Plutor at 5:13 AM on May 1, 2007


1. Yeah, I'm a n00b - I didn't know about the single link wire lol muslim women news&pussyfilter.

2. I didn't provide links to the practice in other cultures when I should have.

3. I did email jessamyn and apologise / thank her got no reply (not that she has to, but she could've at least clarified the whole pussyfilter thing).

4. I stil think that gillyflower's comment was the best.

5. Don't worry - I won't overmoderate my own threads, yeti... if I post here again.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:21 AM on May 1, 2007


roofus said - This was a terrible deletion. Hymenoplasty is an interesting operation, that poses genuine questions around medical ethics, and the evolution of female genital cosmetic surgery. Many of the comments in that thread were fascinating. The poor comments should have been axed, rather than lazily deleting an otherwise excellent thread.

No worries; I got the message: when posting to MeFi, keep it light, somewhat geeky, and completely apolitical. And no pussies.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:25 AM on May 1, 2007


Ambrosia Voyeur wrote: Gotta hand it to the noob, he did get out of there, and seemed to value my advice. (?!)

Well, yeah. More or less. I don't normally like to shy away from a fight with sexist arseholes.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:29 AM on May 1, 2007


got no reply (not that she has to, but she could've at least clarified the whole pussyfilter thing).

Sorry about that, I figured the MeTa thread would clear most of that up. The MeFi inbox is pretty busy and I often dont reply to email that isn't asking a question. As with most posts like this, a different treatment of the same topic might have gone fine (though I'm trying to think how and I'm not sure). This particular link/phrasing didn't go so well, but don't let that dissuade you from posting in the future.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:37 AM on May 1, 2007


"look how weird the other culture is" badness.

I would say it does in terms of crappy one-link "look how weird the other gender is" badness.

I guess the worst thing about my post is that it was so (almost) universally misunderstood. My impression (from reading the link) was 'I can't believe that people are still oppressing women to this degree, no matter where it is or what background the people have'.

I didnt' articulate it well because I didn't think other people would have such a sexist and xenophobic reaction.

My bad.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:38 AM on May 1, 2007


I figured the MeTa thread would clear most of that up. The MeFi inbox is pretty busy and I often dont reply to email that isn't asking a question. As with most posts like this, a different treatment of the same topic might have gone fine (though I'm trying to think how and I'm not sure). This particular link/phrasing didn't go so well, but don't let that dissuade you from posting in the future.

Thanks for the reply, J. As I said in my email, I was actually glad that you did delete it, in the end. The tone of the comments had become ridiculously combative, even for that exalted bastion of combative commentary: the intarweebs.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:55 AM on May 1, 2007


Hey, chuck d! Take your first deletion like a man! And don't let it dissuade you from posting in the future! We're all rootin' for ya, champ! Your best days are ahead a' ya! When the going gets tough, the tough get going! A winner never quits and a quitter never wins!

And whaddaya call a hundred deleted MeFi posts at the bottom of the ocean?

A GOOD START!

/ba-doom psssshhh!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:07 AM on May 1, 2007


OK, flapjax. I'll buck up like a good little camper!

The next thing I post will be so inoffensive that the sound of crickets chirping afterward will be deafening ;-)
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:23 AM on May 1, 2007


No worries; I got the message: when posting to MeFi, keep it light, somewhat geeky, and completely apolitical. And no pussies.

You've been on something close to a posting spree since the 20th, seven posts in ten days. Not everything is going to stick to the wall, man, especially at that rate.

And, yeah, it might not be a bad idea in general to "articulate it well" when you're throwing something on the front page. If you're shocked at how universally misunderstood a post was, you really need to consider the presentation, regardless of how good your intent might have been.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:33 AM on May 1, 2007


Cheers, cortex. You're spot on, it was a crap post.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:35 AM on May 1, 2007


chuckdarwin writes "My impression (from reading the link) was 'I can't believe that people are still oppressing women to this degree, no matter where it is or what background the people have'."

Perhaps the problem (just guessing) is that much of MeFi is aware of that, and so it came across not so much as informing people about something which they weren't aware of, as "I am angry about this, join with me". I'm not saying that was your intention, but that may be how it came across.
posted by Bugbread at 6:52 AM on May 1, 2007


This was a terrible deletion. Hymenoplasty is an interesting operation, that poses genuine questions around medical ethics, and the evolution of female genital cosmetic surgery. Many of the comments in that thread were fascinating. The poor comments should have been axed, rather than lazily deleting an otherwise excellent thread.
posted by roofus at 10:57 AM on May 1 [+]
[!]


Agree. Somewhat. I find it hard to see what general criterium the OP post matches viz. failed from the stated reason. Other than: the admin didn't like it.
On the other hand; every society needs its taboos. And maybe discussing critically any behaviour that is correlated to a certain culture other than our own is a taboo on metafilter.
I can live with that.

Another explanation is that LGF is the kind of web community that the admins do not want mefi to be. So they quell anything that seems to drift in that direction.
And that's ok too.
posted by jouke at 1:14 PM on May 1, 2007


I find it hard to see what general criterium the OP post matches viz. failed from the stated reason.

I don't know anything about the post in question or this thread. But I would like to point to jouke that it is proper etiquette to post in Metatalk in English, not whatever language that was.
posted by dios at 1:55 PM on May 1, 2007 [1 favorite]


Oh, I thought this was the lolcats thread. Sorry.

(Ah, right, shuffling your prepositional phrases like that is a faux pas in english. And viz. does not mean what I thought it means.... )

Thanked, dios, that you me pointed on my languageerrors.
posted by jouke at 3:26 PM on May 1, 2007


nonsense up with which not putting &c
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:15 PM on May 1, 2007


jouke: Overall, I understood most of your comment, and heartily agree with it, but regarding that one phrase: what did you mean?
posted by Bugbread at 4:21 PM on May 1, 2007


Hey, cortex, great, we can swap garbled lolcats/ syntactical word sequence jokes.

Or are you threatening deletion?

I'm confused.

I really, really should get some sleep.
posted by jouke at 4:31 PM on May 1, 2007


jouke, no worries mate. I see from your profile that you are from the Netherlands, and I'm sure my Dutch would be much worse than your English. Send me a pair of nice wooden shoes and all will be forgiven.
posted by dios at 4:34 PM on May 1, 2007


bugbread; haha, sorry. I just meant; the stated reason sounds very specific to this one post. I did find it hard to relate the stated reason for deletion to a more general guideline.

But I guess it's not that important all in all.

dios: but you're not posting on a dutch forum, are you now? So I can't accept your forgiveness and consequently will not send you wooden shoes. That's really no loss to you; walking on wooden shoes sucks, especially in the snow; huge towers of snow stack up under your soles.
cheers.
posted by jouke at 4:45 PM on May 1, 2007


00:50 - my new post is so dull that it has garnered a grand total of 3 replies: mission accomplished.
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:50 PM on May 1, 2007


Ah, a passive aggresive overmoderation on metatalk of said post.
posted by jouke at 4:52 PM on May 1, 2007


Metafilter: a passive aggresive overmoderation on metatalk of said post.
posted by shmegegge at 6:07 PM on May 1, 2007


it is proper etiquette to post in Metatalk in English, not whatever language that was.

WELCOME TO AMURICA SPEAK ENGLISH NOW

of course dios, this guy's English is way, way better than the pidgin Latin you so often use to remind everybody here that you may have gone to law school once, but don't worry about that. we dislike you anyway.
posted by matteo at 2:45 AM on May 2, 2007


matteo writes "of course dios, this guy's English is way, way better than the pidgin Latin you so often use to remind everybody here that you may have gone to law school once, but don't worry about that. we dislike you anyway."

I dunno, dios and jouke seem to be on good friendly terms. Are you using the royal "we" when you say "we dislike you anyway"?
posted by Bugbread at 5:13 AM on May 2, 2007


Don't mind matteo, he makes over-the-top nasty comments any time he happens on dios in a thread. If I were a moderator I'd have sent him an e-mail telling him to knock it off long ago, and perhaps one or more of the moderators have, but he ignores it because he knows DIOS IS EVIL AND MUST BE EXTERMINATED.

And yeah, the "we dislike you" is pathetic. Speak for yourself, mats.
posted by languagehat at 7:37 AM on May 2, 2007


Are you using the royal "we" when you say "we dislike you anyway"?

Perhaps matteo's using the Dios "we".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:06 AM on May 2, 2007


Perhaps matteo's using the Dios "we".

In which you link to a comment that is by someone else.

I'm not saying I don't understand why some people dislike dios, but I will say that the weird fascination with getting your hate on with him everywhere and anywhere is more suitable to some alt.angry.sex.i.hate.you forum than it is here.

dios is a part of this community If that very fact makes you, any of you, angry to even think about in such a way that your anger slops over into MeFi or AskMe indiscriminantly (there's room in MeTa but it's still not that charming) we'll cut it off. The same is true if we see dios baiting someone or picking fights with individuals that aren't just "I disagree with your ideas" discussions. My email is available, you see it happening, let me know.

Otherwise, as I've said many times before, the range of personalities on MeFi is varied and complex which is one of the wonderful things about it, but it does require a certain sort of tolerance -- even of people you dislike. We try to keep the moderation way way down, but save your angry hate for your own blog if you don't mind.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:19 AM on May 2, 2007 [2 favorites]


the weird fascination with getting your hate on with him everywhere and anywhere is more suitable to some alt.angry.sex.i.hate.you forum than it is here.

that's my favorite usenet group!
posted by shmegegge at 9:42 AM on May 2, 2007


In which you link to a comment that is by someone else.

Referring to Dios' abuse of the royal "we", which makes it strange that matteo is singled out for criticism for its misuse. Actually, not that strange, really.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:45 AM on May 2, 2007


The same is true if we see dios baiting someone or picking fights with individuals that aren't just "I disagree with your ideas" discussions.

No disrespect, but this is just not true.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:47 AM on May 2, 2007


Blazecock Pileon writes "which makes it strange that matteo is singled out for criticism for its misuse."

I wasn't intending to criticise his use of it in general (there are a lot of times when he says "we" which I think are pretty damn valid, even though I'm not one of the "we", and a lot of times when I say "we" which I think are pretty damn valid, even though matteo, or dios, or whomever, is not part of the "we"). I just thought this particular use seemed really, I dunno, out of the blue. jouke and dios were getting along fine, with dios criticising some weird English, jouke admitting it was weird, dios admitting that jouke's language skills kicked dios's language skills ass, much forgiving of eachother, and just general levity and friendliness, and then, boom, out of the blue "we dislike you". It would have fit in a thousand dios threads, but in this particular thread, it was just such a non-sequitor that it knocked me for a bit of a loop.
posted by Bugbread at 10:44 AM on May 2, 2007


I see from your profile that you are from the Netherlands(Harlem), and I'm sure my Dutch(Ebonics) would be much worse than your English. Send me a pair of nice wooden shoes(watermelons) and all will be forgiven.

I know he was joking, but that's what dios's "apology" sounded like to me as soon as I read it. To his credit, jouke took it gracefully, so it's not really my place to say anything and I didn't. But perhaps matteo, as another MeFite whose first language is not English, responded harshly because he was offended.

jessamyn, lot of what dios says is just dripping with such condecension, in my view and the view of a lot of people here. I truly believe that's just the way dios is and he doesn't necessarily even know he's doing it, and it's so normal coming out of his mouth that sometimes it isn't even noticeable. But telling us we should email a mod when he provokes a reaction seems to grant dios special status. (To the degree that's it's on topic and non-personal,*) I am well within my rights as a Citizen of the Isle of MetaFilter to call him on it ... in thread. It's not my fault he doesn't handle criticism as well as jouke did.

* I am not claiming matteo's comment meets these criteria.

posted by and hosted from Uranus at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2007


To his credit, jouke took it gracefully, so it's not really my place to say anything and I didn't.

um... Yeah, you did. And to your debit, you would have been a lot better off if you hadn't.
posted by found missing at 11:22 AM on May 2, 2007


I am repsonding to jessamyn's comment about email more dios's, found missing.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 11:25 AM on May 2, 2007


more than dios's
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 11:26 AM on May 2, 2007


BTW, Harlem *is* in the Netherlands, but I think they are known more for their wooden shoes than for their watermelons.
posted by found missing at 11:36 AM on May 2, 2007


and hosted from Uranus writes "I know he was joking, but that's what dios's 'apology' sounded like to me as soon as I read it."

Really?

It sounded to me like "First, I thought you were a native English speaker, and your English was fucked up, so I made fun of it. But then I checked your user page, and realized that it's not your native language, and yet is shit hot, much better than my Dutch would probably be, so I'm sorry for ragging on your English, and here's a joke as a peace offering".
posted by Bugbread at 11:42 AM on May 2, 2007


I'm pretty sure that's how it was meant, bugbread. Kind of what I was getting at with the sentence I began with "I truly believe ...". The same with his constant digs at MetaFilter as a whole. I know he doesn't really hate this place, but many times he will end an otherwise lucid comment with a reference to "this shithole circle jerk" and I'm sorry but it bothers me every time even I let most of them go.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 11:49 AM on May 2, 2007


Add a "as" before that "even" if'n you like.

I think jouke's self-consciousness here influenced my reaction a bit as I thought it was perhaps a result of dios's comment here, but looking back at the timestamps it seems that conclusion is unfounded.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 11:59 AM on May 2, 2007


The problem is that he forgot the [NOT DUTCHIST] tag.

dios has a bad twitch habit of spoiling pretty good comments with defensive jabs. It's not all his comments, and it's noticed/mentioned disproportionately by a small and fairly consistent set of users, and so it can be kind of hard to see some of the less well-qualified attacks on him (and on failure to righteously blast him from the face of the site) as any less biased than his own spikes of defensiveness.

And the same goes to some extent for some other highly visible/name-dropable users on the site—cult-of-personality, persona-over-person—and I think it's one of the more frustrating (but inevitable) aspects of not rigorously steamcleaning every corner of the site. Metafilter could be a place where anything remotely resembling personal conflict is zapped and punished, but it's not; there's a line walked, a sort of case-by-case gut-threshold on how far is too far and how much is too much. And one big practical result of that is that the edge of the envelope gets a little bit nastier and pain-in-the-assish than it would otherwise. It's tricky.

What jessamyn said, about sending an email in response to sitings of that sort of egregious personal-attack behavior? It's a good idea. It beats running a personal vendetta (in either broadsides or a thousand tiny cuts) on the site proper, and it helps us see where people are coming from and have a bit more context on the running antagonism that does surface on the site.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:00 PM on May 2, 2007


and hosted,

I agree with you about the "shithole circle jerk" bit.

Anyway, this site has gone for a few months without a Dios Parade, so let's not let matteo's comment start one up now. So...how about that cat circumcision, eh?
posted by Bugbread at 12:01 PM on May 2, 2007


I'm trying to levitate the thread, but my powers fail me.

If I were to weigh dios' comment on a microbalance, which is quite boring I think, then I'd say; yes, 'forgiving' and the wooden shoe sending felt condescending to me and you may notice that I did not accept dios' forgiveness.

This may be true but personally I do not think it matters sufficiently on an individual comment basis; as long as he's a member he's a member and I do not want to keep score of anyone.
So I chose to react in good cheer.

Excuse me, Sir, Ma'm, I'm from Holland, can you pass me the levitidinous snark, please?
*closes mefi phrase book*
posted by jouke at 12:03 PM on May 2, 2007


jouke writes "So I chose to react in good cheer."

An option unfortunately so often forgotten and derided. Keep this up and you're going in with nickyskye as "people on MeFi who are just plain nice".
posted by Bugbread at 12:09 PM on May 2, 2007


Excuse me, Sir, Ma'm, I'm from Holland, can you pass me the levitidinous snark, please?

::Passes jouke the levitidinous snark::

Hey! Don't hit that so hard, jouke.

Puff, puff, give.
posted by kosem at 12:12 PM on May 2, 2007


It's mine, all mine!!!
*runs away to Haarlem*
posted by jouke at 12:17 PM on May 2, 2007


It's tricky.

Understood. And I know email-a-mod is the right choice in many instances, but I will always err on the side of stating my view pub(l)ically. Hi my name is dano and I'm a MetaTalk junkie.

Feline schmucks, on the other hand, give me a headache. I prefer to smoke monkey tips.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:30 PM on May 2, 2007


Don't mind matteo, he makes over-the-top nasty comments any time he happens on dios in a thread.

Yes, but it's not limited to dios. I'm sensitized to matteo, so my estimate may be wrong, but he seems to me to be (of the long-term, high-profile members) the most consistently over-the-top insulting person here.

I agree with what cortex seems to be saying above about the virtues of lighter moderation, as well as its vices. But it should be noted that viciousness on a web forum encourages itself like mad. It's been my impression that MeFi has been much less vicious for awhile because a handful of those most inclined to this behavior just aren't around as much these days. A few others have changed. That's had an influence on everyone else, I think.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:36 PM on May 2, 2007


Referring to Dios' abuse of the royal "we", which makes it strange that matteo is singled out for criticism for its misuse. Actually, not that strange, really

I think it's partly that dios' use, which seemed to mean "the people who talk about politics on metafilter" was wrong because the people who talk about politics on metafilter may very well continue to talk about the politicians dios slighted, and not because dios wasn't part of an identifiable group of mefites. matteo's use, which seemed to mean "all of metafilter" was wrong because he attacked a user personally as if his opinion represented the opinion of the general mefite population. it's not so much that matteo said "we" as he said "we dislike you," and people justifiably want to distance themselves from being lumped in with that.

additionally, I think jessamyn specifically didn't like bringing up the retort to dios saying "we" because it's history digging, and that's not always a great idea. also, it seemed to say "well, dios says 'we' so it should be okay to use it against him," which is precisely the kind of thing the mods tend to not agree with, since it's basically a "2 wrongs make a right" argument.

now, i can't claim to know yours or matteo's motivations or intentions with what you guys said. i'm just trying to say what it seemed like to me. I presume, based on jessamyn's reply, that she saw things the same way. I might be wrong.

my last caveat would be that, i'm not trying to make any claim on whether or not the mods are too lenient on dios or whether he gets any special treatment or abuse from the mods or anyone else. I hate hate hate that discussion, and I'm staying out of it. I'm just trying to point out where the disconnect might lay in why matteo's comment was rejected by people.
posted by shmegegge at 12:51 PM on May 2, 2007


[matteo] seems to me to be (of the long-term, high-profile members) the most consistently over-the-top insulting person here.

maybe i'm not visiting the right threads, but i feel like i almost never see matteo around here, anymore. when i think of the most consistently over-the-top insulting people here, I don't think of him. he doesn't, that i've seen, call people asshat or shitbag or whatever just for expressing an uninformed opinion in an otherwise civil discussion. but then again, i don't go into politics threads, so maybe i just haven't seen it.
posted by shmegegge at 12:55 PM on May 2, 2007


shmegegge writes "but then again, i don't go into politics threads, so maybe i just haven't seen it."

Bingo bango boom.

shmegegge writes "matteo's use, which seemed to mean 'all of metafilter' was wrong because he attacked a user personally as if his opinion represented the opinion of the general mefite population."

I'm the one who singled it out, but it wasn't anything as involved as that. It's just that, usually, an issue comes up:

User A: I think X!
User B: No, Y!
User C: He's right, Y!
User A: No, X!
User D: We think Y!

At this point, "we" is usually taken to mean "the people who have been expressing this opinion".

The reason the "we" seemed weird enough to point out in this thread is because matteo was the first person expressing the opinion, but he was using the plural "we". It's as if the exchange above were instead:

User A: We think X!
User B: No, Y!
User C: He's right, Y!
User A: No, X!
User D: I think Y!

User A's first comment would feel really weird, no? That's all I meant by bringing up the "we".

shmegegge writes "he doesn't, that i've seen, call people asshat or shitbag or whatever just for expressing an uninformed opinion in an otherwise civil discussion."

True. I definitely don't think he's the most vicious person on MeFi. I just think he's one of the more consistent ones.
posted by Bugbread at 1:28 PM on May 2, 2007


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