Offensive noise. June 11, 2007 6:49 PM   Subscribe

Completely ridiculous, disgusting askme response.
posted by Baby_Balrog to Etiquette/Policy at 6:49 PM (83 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

No! I expect far more from SCDB! I am shocked!
posted by polyhedron at 6:52 PM on June 11, 2007


Did you flag it as noise?
posted by bigmusic at 6:52 PM on June 11, 2007


best of the dente.
posted by quonsar at 6:54 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


Boooooooooooo. Don't tempt me with "completely ridiculous" and "disgusting" if you're just going to point to that. I've seen much worse.
posted by dhammond at 6:57 PM on June 11, 2007


Also booooooooo on the SCDB-hatin'.
posted by dhammond at 6:59 PM on June 11, 2007


dhammond: Hey, I like him, but you'll have a hard time convincing me he can't be extremely obnoxious. It's not a fatal flaw.
posted by polyhedron at 7:00 PM on June 11, 2007


unless you're me.
posted by quonsar at 7:02 PM on June 11, 2007


quonsar: You're one of my faves. Weren't you the pissing elephant guy? I sure miss that.

And fwiw this is a lame callout. Flag and move on bro, flag and move on.
posted by polyhedron at 7:06 PM on June 11, 2007


Maybe I'm in the minority, but he's never bothered me. Even when I don't agree with him, he seems earnest.
posted by dhammond at 7:07 PM on June 11, 2007


Weren't you the pissing elephant guy?

Even out here on the West Coast, I can hear your tombstone being engraved, q.
posted by jonson at 7:07 PM on June 11, 2007 [4 favorites]


Maybe I'm in the minority, but he's never bothered me. Even when I don't agree with him, he seems earnest.

Same here. SCDB's answers in the green are usually in-depth, intelligent, and pertinent.

For what it's worth, I personally think this one is bullshit, but I wouldn't call it out or even hold it against him -- everyone has those posts.
posted by danb at 7:10 PM on June 11, 2007


Let me grab a beer and some popcorn, this one is gonna be good.
posted by chlorus at 7:14 PM on June 11, 2007


So now it's "offensive," "completely ridiculous" and "disgusting" to point to something that really does happen. Maybe Baby_Balrog ought to hang out on a Muslim website, perhaps a Jihadist one, instead. This is one of SCDB's few intelligent comments you're objecting to.

Of course saying that leaves me open to more accusations of anti-semitism, because you know Islam IS a Semitic religion with a Semitic language as its "lashon hakodesh."
posted by davy at 7:16 PM on June 11, 2007


Before I pass judgment on SCDB I need to know if he thought ralph meant a literal viking or if he was using a metaphor.
posted by puke & cry at 7:17 PM on June 11, 2007 [7 favorites]


Lo, for it is true that SCDBs commentary and correspondence are but sweetness and light upon the earseyes of all. It is merely my sensitive and easily chafed retinae that have turned my opinion foul. Forgive me, for I shalt never again hold an unworthy opinion of an anagramed MeFi celebrity without Satan's own bane to force my will.
posted by polyhedron at 7:18 PM on June 11, 2007


SCDB's comment was rude, offensive, uncalled-for, off-topic and derailing. It should be deleted for all these reasons.

Regrettably, the comment was not untrue.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:22 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


Given the question, and given Steven C. Den Beste, is anyone actually surprised?
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:23 PM on June 11, 2007


SCDB's answers in the green are usually in-depth, intelligent, and pertinent.

My main complaint with what I've seen from Steven lately is that now and then he forgets the "pertinent" part: in-depth, intelligent commentary on things that are only tangentially related to the actual question aren't actually helping, and a couple of those have hit the bit-bucket.

I don't know how to call this one. It seems a bit obnoxious, but I know nothing about the subject. Jess has been busy with a thing today, but she'll probably see it and either kill it or not according to her better-honed sensibilities. In the mean time, the thread itself seems to have proceeded unfazed.

Having a SCDB freakout seems kind of unnecessary, regardless. Flag it an move on indeed.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:24 PM on June 11, 2007


June 11, 2007 (Reuters):

A Kurdish man was convicted in a London court on Monday of murdering his 20-year-old daughter in a so-called "honor killing" after she left her husband and fell in love with another man.

Banaz Mahmod was strangled with a shoelace in her home in London, her body was stuffed in a suitcase and taken some 120 miles (190 kilometers) to the city of Birmingham, where it was buried in the back garden of a house.

[While searching for this, CNN's keyword advertising offered "Honour Killings Complimentary Ringtone for Any Cellphone. Get It Instantly." and "Find and Compare prices on honor killing at Smarter.com.". Ye Gods.]
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 7:29 PM on June 11, 2007


While somewhat hyperbolic, they do happen. SCDB is only pointing it out. (Though the "I'd be worried about her safety" is a bit much-- seems like out-of-left-field editorializing. If it were really a concern, I suspect the OP would have composed the question a bit differently.)
posted by exlotuseater at 7:29 PM on June 11, 2007


SCDB's comment was rude, offensive, uncalled-for, off-topic and derailing.

It's perhaps an extreme example, but as davy pointed out, these things actually do happen. Considering one of the people in question is Pakistani, it's not out of the realm of possibility.
posted by dhammond at 7:31 PM on June 11, 2007


The problem as I see it is that his comment was over-generalizing. Sure, a lot of Muslim women are killed for marrying non-Muslims. But it is not necessarily a great danger in all areas, cultures, families, etc. Without knowing all the details, SCDB has lumped copernicus's girlfriend's family and peer group in with potential honor killers (yes, I realize he did not say that it is necessarily a danger in this case, but the implication is that it is always a danger in similar situations). It seems to me that if that were the case, there would have been more mention in the question of emotional abuse from the family, or other warning signs. I trust that copernicus is likely more familiar with the phenomenon of honor killing, and the tensions between Muslims and Hindus than SCDB. In short, SCDB's intentions may be good, but his comment seems to come from ignorance, over-generalization, and jumping to conclusions. These things can have very bad effects.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 7:59 PM on June 11, 2007 [2 favorites]


“SCDB's comment was rude, offensive, uncalled-for, off-topic and derailing.”

It was none of those things. It was wrong and the ignorance behind it probably stems from bigotry. Mostly, it was just dumb. (Yes, it happens. No, it doesn't happen often enough or widely enough to support such an ignorant stereotyping.)

It's also typical of Den Beste's behavior on MeFi. A large portion of his answers and assertions here are bullshit. Very often someone comes along within six or so comments of his and debunks whatever crap he's posted, but it doesn't make much difference. He's basically Cliff Clavin from Cheers.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:03 PM on June 11, 2007 [15 favorites]


*Muslim who goes on honor killing sprees several times a day*
posted by Burhanistan at 8:08 PM on June 11, 2007


EB nailed it. Cliff Clavin - that's perfect.
posted by puke & cry at 8:09 PM on June 11, 2007


One of the things stressed in traditional Islam is to dislike the actions, not the person. One never knows when another person will have a fath, an opening into the unseen and they suddenly become more realized than you.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:14 PM on June 11, 2007


Have I ever told you about my trip to Florida?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:15 PM on June 11, 2007


NORM!!!!!
posted by quonsar at 8:21 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


In short, SCDB's intentions may be good, but his comment seems to come from ignorance, over-generalization, and jumping to conclusions.

Maybe so, but for better or for worse these things happen all the time in AskMe. Rarely does it lead to a call-out except in the more extreme cases. There is nothing about his response that is particularly egregious, from where I'm sitting, and no one's really objecting to it in the thread itself.
posted by dhammond at 8:23 PM on June 11, 2007


Maybe so, but for better or for worse these things happen all the time in AskMe.

Honor killings? We must be having a bad month.
posted by grobstein at 8:41 PM on June 11, 2007


no one's really objecting to it in the thread itself.

That's because one does not object in AskMe. One may refute, but all objection goes right here in MetaTalk. Anyway, stop trying to get in the way of us trashing on SCDB in general. Who cares if this one particular comment of his is borderline ok (or at least not worthy of its own MeTa thread), he's an asshole! And you're an asshole for defending him! And you, over there, you're an asshole for snickering! You're all a bunch of assholes?

I'm glorious.
posted by carsonb at 8:44 PM on June 11, 2007


Fuck?
posted by carsonb at 8:45 PM on June 11, 2007


Totally Cliff Calvin. Damn, EB, are you spot on as usual... I subvocalize your username as 'eeb'... We signed up on the same day... This text is too small...
posted by blasdelf at 9:00 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


I call him "Gamestop".
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:00 PM on June 11, 2007 [4 favorites]


There is nothing about his response that is particularly egregious, from where I'm sitting

Except that his comment is ideologically motivated and has little — rather, almost nothing — to do with answering the question. Given the subject matter, it is easy to see why someone would think the response is "completely ridiculous" or "disgusting".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:02 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'd be worried about her safety. A lot of Muslim girls people have been murdered for doing what you're talking about.

Fixed that for you..

FBI Statistics 2002: as a woman in the US, you're 3 times more likely to be killed by your husband than your parents or siblings (that's not taking into account that you have at least twice as many parents and siblings as husbands). If this Steven fellow went into every marriage post screaming "No!!! You're going to die!," it would get old real quick. That he chose the one involving Muslims says it all.
posted by one_bean at 9:31 PM on June 11, 2007 [3 favorites]


It's not a fatal flaw.
posted by polyhedron at 10:00 PM on June 11 [+] [!]


unless you're me.
posted by quonsar


Fatal? Hardly. Your snark kept you alive through all the bad years, really. Don't ever give that up. It's your gift. My guess, you made Matt about several hundred thousand dollars with that snark. You really ought to be the fourth estate, I mean admin.
posted by caddis at 9:42 PM on June 11, 2007 [2 favorites]


You know, a lot of Irish have been killed for making lame callouts.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:49 PM on June 11, 2007 [4 favorites]


I hear more zombies are killed in space than anywhere else.
posted by one_bean at 10:03 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


You know, a lot of Irish have been killed for making lame callouts.

The wakes are to die for.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:40 PM on June 11, 2007


Not that I think this is the worst AskMe answer offense of all time or even close to it, but he does seem to be a fan of the scaremongering. In my own case, I just ignored him and moved on.

Until now, that is.
posted by Brittanie at 11:00 PM on June 11, 2007


To anyone receiving an answer from Mr. Den Beste, I'd take it with a grain of salt. As mentioned already, he's someone that has to be an expert on everything. His answers are frequently wrong but he has to sound authoritative anyway. And he apparently isn't past throwing in ideologically loaded comments. I'd just ignore him, as Brittanie mentioned.
posted by puke & cry at 11:07 PM on June 11, 2007


He's basically Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

"Due to the shape of the North American elk's esophagus, even if it could speak, it could not pronounce the word lasagna"
posted by dreamsign at 11:10 PM on June 11, 2007 [2 favorites]


He's basically Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

Which makes mathowie Sam Malone, cortex Woody and quonsar Norm, right? So who is jessamyn? Diane, Rebecca or Carla? And EB, you are a leading candidate for Frasier.
posted by wendell at 11:45 PM on June 11, 2007 [7 favorites]


I remain puzzled as to why a beginner-level Japanese learner is opining on the possibility or otherwise of Chinese puns. Fortunately our lad in Beijing pops in to set the matter straight.
posted by Wolof at 11:46 PM on June 11, 2007


Raincoat anime and basic Japanese is much preferable to geopolitics though.
posted by dydecker at 12:52 AM on June 12, 2007


It's kind of sad, though. Those that get called out for this kind of thing are always the same people, and they are not at all the only people making questionable comments. The fact is, a lot of MeFites have a bug up their collective asses about a few members, and those few members get more shit because of it than they usually deserve. For the number of people complaining in a thread the other day about how shitty high school was, they sure seem compelled to recreate it everywhere else.
posted by dreamsign at 1:11 AM on June 12, 2007 [4 favorites]


I flagged SCDB's comment as derail; as Blazecock said, I find it hard to believe it wasn't just an ideological knee-jerk.
When you read that the asker has been in love with this woman for 10 years and is Indian., the presumption of feeling the need to bring up honour killing is breathtaking.
posted by Abiezer at 1:23 AM on June 12, 2007


Oh for sure flag it, but a MeTa callout?
posted by dreamsign at 3:10 AM on June 12, 2007


Q: I'm thinking of going to the US for a holiday - recommendations?

A: I'd avoid the US. They have serial killers and lots of guns. These things do happen.

And so forth...
posted by i_cola at 6:03 AM on June 12, 2007


I called this out last night, right after I finished a six-pack, right before I went to bed. I'm kind of amazed at some of the responses. I wouldn't have called it out (I'm not really the metatalk call-out type - more of the in-thread flamewar starter, really) but after reading it I completely and utterly realized what a total racist SCDB is. Someone above pointed out that spousal abuse and death are a possibility in all marriages, yet the only reason - the only reason SCDB popped his obnoxious little personage into that thread was because he read the word 'Muslim' in the title. And he hates Muslims, and wants other people to hate them, too. It didn't matter that they had been a couple for ten years, it didn't matter that this gentleman obviously loved her and was looking for sincere advice about mixed marriages. SCDB obviously knows nothing about these things. All he knows is one meaningless little factoid about something that happens in backward, impoverished parts of the Muslim world. And he hates Muslims (because he's a racist) so he wants to paint honor-killings as a legitimate danger.

And so I flagged it.

And it didn't go away.

So I'm bringing it up here, if for no reason other than to point out that SCDB is a shrill, evil little racist and he should be ashamed of himself.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 6:35 AM on June 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


You know who else was a shrill, evil little racist?

*wait for it*


Strom Thurmond, of course.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:50 AM on June 12, 2007


I don't think Steven is evil, just frequently inept in a very public way.
posted by blasdelf at 7:11 AM on June 12, 2007


blasdelf: I subvocalize your username as 'eeb'... We signed up on the same day...

Wow, you two should totally hang out.
posted by LordSludge at 7:12 AM on June 12, 2007


So what was the comment?
posted by GuyZero at 7:20 AM on June 12, 2007


SCDB's answers in the green are usually in-depth, intelligent, and pertinent.

What EB said. SCDB is an intelligent guy who thinks he knows way more than he does and has absolutely no ability to distinguish "something I think I know that is vaguely related to something that came to mind while reading this thread" from "something that would actually be useful to contribute to this thread." I don't dislike him, but I sure wish he'd learn to rein himself in.
posted by languagehat at 7:24 AM on June 12, 2007



I called this out last night, right after I finished a six-pack, right before I went to bed.


Excellent -- the "I was drunk" sorta-excuse finally makes an appearance in MeTa. Mel Gibson and Mark Foley thank you.
posted by modernnomad at 7:25 AM on June 12, 2007


A large portion of his answers and assertions here are bullshit. Very often someone comes along within six or so comments of his and debunks whatever crap he's posted, but it doesn't make much difference.

It's really true. His AskMe answers can be wonderful, but far too often - and at a higher rate than many of the "I'm not a lawyer" newbies who give legal advice - he's stating blatantly wrong information with certainty. He's one of the folks who most regularly jumps into AskMe threads about which he knows nothing - the poster child for male answer syndrome.

has absolutely no ability to distinguish "something I think I know that is vaguely related to something that came to mind while reading this thread" from "something that would actually be useful to contribute to this thread."

Right. The poster child for male answer syndrome.
posted by mediareport at 8:10 AM on June 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm not afraid to admit that I don't know shit. Say it with me...
posted by Burhanistan at 8:40 AM on June 12, 2007


The comment's gone now. Maybe the admins can close this thread.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:44 AM on June 12, 2007


Oh, come on. ikkyu2 is obviously Frasier. (which makes occhibulu Lillith, hee)

Jessamyn is more like Carla than any of the others.

I want to know who is the cigar Indian by the door.
posted by frecklefaerie at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2007


My, my; this has taken a bit of a nasty turn overnight.

I have learned a great deal from SCDB's Answers, not least the ones where he has been blatantly wrong.

If you don't want to evaluate and think through what people have to say, you would be wiser to listen only when you find yourself in rooms where one wall is thickly covered in framed certificates.
posted by jamjam at 9:17 AM on June 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


I thought it was too tangential to the askme thread, but just days ago I emailed my Muslim girlfriend with my concerns for her safety. Fathers, brothers, cuckolded husbands, any men in the family / social network of a Muslim women are potential lethal dangers, this is something very real. I'm not going into a lot of detail here, but you'll have to trust me on this.

SCDB sort of stepped in it, though. They've been together for 10 years, the families have met. Honor killing isn't the first thing that would have come to my mind in this scenario.

Anything that connects hindus, marriage, and sex just doesn't really work on askme, it is a big blindspot in the userbase, pasted over with PC preconceptions. That's my theory, anyways.

This would be a better resource for dealing with the OP's issues.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:28 AM on June 12, 2007


If we get the result that cortex is Woody, the analogy is broken.
posted by Kwine at 9:39 AM on June 12, 2007


If Jessamyn is Carla, I think that makes matthowie Eddie LeBec...
posted by dreamsign at 10:18 AM on June 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Fathers, brothers, cuckolded husbands, any men in the family / social network of Muslim women are potential lethal dangers, this is something very real

Fixed that one for you, too.
posted by one_bean at 10:30 AM on June 12, 2007


My cat's breath smells like cat food.
posted by tr33hggr at 11:44 AM on June 12, 2007


Cats are potential lethal dangers, this is something very real.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:47 AM on June 12, 2007


What was the name of that other, rival bar, that they sometimes played in softball or bowling or whatnot? Larry's Old-Time Tavern? Gary's Good-Time Tavern? Something like that.
posted by box at 12:05 PM on June 12, 2007


A little of each. It was Gary's Old Towne Tavern .
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:13 PM on June 12, 2007


“Oh, come on. ikkyu2 is obviously Frasier. ”

Maybe so—and I think I'm a lot more like Diane, unfortunately.

Sam Malone: matthowie
Coach: konolia
Carla Tortelli: quonsar
Diane Chambers: Ethereal Bligh
Norm Peterson: MiguelCardoso
Cliff Clavin: Steven C. Den Beste
Woody Boyd: jonmc
Frazier Crane: languagehat
Lilith Sternin: y2karl
Rebecca Howe: amberglow
Nick Tortelli: davy


Rebecca Howe isn't really that good of a fit for amberglow, but I wanted to fit him in there somewhere.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:17 PM on June 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Everyone else is just a bar patron extra in one's own sitcom.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:36 PM on June 12, 2007


no way is jessamyn carla. chicken fucking aside, jessamyn is absolutely diane. metafilter does not have, near as i can figure, anyone who really fits the carla personality, except maybe dame. but even dame is more of an educated smart who doesn't take shit from anyone, where carla is the street smart one who doesn't take shit from anyone.
posted by shmegegge at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2007




Cheers didn't have a lot of good parts for female characters. Can we try it again with Full House?
posted by box at 1:56 PM on June 12, 2007


Cut. It. Out.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:05 PM on June 12, 2007


jonmc = carla
posted by caddis at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2007


cortex = Dave Coulier
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:51 PM on June 12, 2007


no frickin way am i gonna be the olsen twins.
posted by quonsar at 3:02 PM on June 12, 2007


There are enough honour killings in British Columbia that I think SCDB was right in mentioning it, even if he was uncouth in his wording.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:40 PM on June 12, 2007


There are enough honour killings in British Columbia that I think SCDB was right in mentioning it, even if he was uncouth in his wording.

In the United States:

# 1.3 million women and 834,732 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually
# 201,394 women are forcibly raped by an intimate partner annually
# 11% of women in homosexual relationships and 23% of men in homosexual relationships report being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by an intimate partner
# 503,485 women and 185,496 men are stalked by an intimate partner annually
# 1-25% of all pregnant women are battered during pregnancy
# 30-40% of women's emergency room visits are for injuries due to domestic violence
# 30% of women killed in the U.S. are killed by their husbands or boyfriends
# 50% of men who assaulted their female partners also assaulted their children
# 3.3 million children witness domestic violence each year

In British Columbia:
Honour killings were almost unheard of in Britain until a few years ago but police and the Crown now estimate there are about a dozen a year.

As someone else said above, unless you're bringing up the possibility of women or gay men being raped, abused, and killed in every single relationship thread, choosing to do so in this one is nothing more than racism and fear-mongering.
posted by occhiblu at 7:21 PM on June 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Sorry, meant to delete "gay" in the previous post...
posted by occhiblu at 7:22 PM on June 12, 2007


# 1-25% of all pregnant women are battered during pregnancy

So I guess the error bars on that "statistic" are only +/- 24%.
posted by achmorrison at 8:00 AM on June 13, 2007


« Older Mondo Meta 2.0 Help   |   old::hotness tag Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments