Follow-up to "Single Forever?" September 26, 2007 11:43 AM   Subscribe

I want to do a follow-up to the anonymous post What do you do with your life if you never get married? and confess to being....The Anonymous.

Thanks to everyone who replied. There was some great advice in there. It was my first AskMe post and therefore I opted to go for anonymous.

Anyway. The follow-up is this: For religious reasons, premarital sex and cohabitation with a SO are not really an option. So my question wasn't really about what to do with your life if you're not legally married (because some respondents thought that the paperwork was my hang-up).

To those who replied originally (or anyone else), does this information change what you advised me (as anonymous) to do?

(I posted this in MetaTalk because I thought it seemed a little ChatFilter-y and I'm not sure how else to do follow-ups to posts from a while ago)

Again, thanks everyone.
posted by PinkButterfly to MetaFilter-Related at 11:43 AM (98 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

You might want to post this to the prior thread, which is still open to comments. It's a few months old, but you may get feedback from those who see your comment pop up on their Recent Activity page.
posted by brain_drain at 11:56 AM on September 26, 2007


"The follow-up is this: For religious reasons, premarital sex and cohabitation with a SO are not really an option. So my question wasn't really about what to do with your life if you're not legally married (because some respondents thought that the paperwork was my hang-up)."

Anyone say nunnery?
posted by klangklangston at 12:01 PM on September 26, 2007


Drink heavily.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:05 PM on September 26, 2007


I'd like to see another follow-up in ten years, Ms. Butterfly.
posted by timeistight at 12:09 PM on September 26, 2007


Change religions.
posted by found missing at 12:10 PM on September 26, 2007 [6 favorites]


In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly (and reduces the likelihood of marrying someone from outside your immediate religious social circle by an even greater degree), even if you were interested in getting married. Mentioning it in the previous thread would, I think, have changed the tenor of many of the answers given.

Had I answered in the original thread, I might have suggested that your dating years aren't over and there's no hurry and etc. Now, however, my advice would be to plan to be single forever (even if things change) and to set some other goals: financial, hobby and otherwise. Plan to retire solo. Plan to own a home solo (it can be tough!) Make use of the time that might otherwise go towards raising kids, and so forth.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:11 PM on September 26, 2007


Anyone say nunnery?

That seems kind of mean, I must say.

I'd think this question would be fine in askme.

Not having read the whole original thread. I'd say you are fine with not persuing a relationship. You can have a perfectly fine life without one. But, I also think you shouldn't take a decision at this early point in your life about never having one. Just let life happen and be open to it.

Don't worry too much about having a bad relationship. It may or may not happen. Not getting into one desperately is one way to avoid a bad one, but is not fool proof. One thing you could decide now is simply not to stay in a bad relationship.
posted by DarkForest at 12:11 PM on September 26, 2007


In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly

This statement is incorrect in so many ways, and makes so many assumptions that it's difficult for me to start to say what is wrong with it.

Mentioning it in the previous thread would, I think, have changed the tenor of many of the answers given.

Mentioning it in the previous thread would have completely derailed what otherwise turned out to be a very helpful, encouraging thread, so count your blessings.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:15 PM on September 26, 2007 [3 favorites]


.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:15 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


you may get feedback from those who see your comment pop up on their Recent Activity page.

User X's Recent Activity only gathers information about their most recent 7 days of activity. So, once you've posted to the thread, it will again appear in your recent activity; however, it will not appear in anyone else's recent activity, until he/she adds a new comment in that thread.

I humbly suggest that addressing that duration again could be worthwhile.. Obviously the longer the time window, the greater the server load, but with recent upgrading, maybe a longer window is possible?!?
posted by Chuckles at 12:18 PM on September 26, 2007


You need to look within your church for a guy with who has made the same choice.
posted by spec80 at 12:19 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


does this information change what you advised me (as anonymous) to do?

No. Now, does it change your desire to get married or not get married? If so, that's worth looking at.

I don't want to be in an unhappy marriage just to say that I'm married, like I see in my family and other relationships


You don't? Then definitely don't get married just so that you can have access to sex.

Resloving conflicts between your religion and your desire for intimate relationships might be challenging, but many others have done it before you and have decided that allowing potential intimacy with well-chosen partners was an option, after all. On the other hand, many people have lived happy, fulfilling lives by staying celibate and devoting their energy to other ends.

Again, this has to be about what's right for you. It sounds like you're stuck, and the fact that you're here bringing it back up indicates that maybe you're no closer to an answer about what you want. If what you really want is to hold out for a partner who will match you exactly in values and goals and marry that person, understanding that if they never show up you'll stay single, then you're all set. You wouldn't be the first.
posted by Miko at 12:21 PM on September 26, 2007


Make use of the time that might otherwise go towards raising kids, and so forth.

Buh? Single people can't raise kids now? Jesus.
posted by tristeza at 12:21 PM on September 26, 2007


Yeah, find a better religion. They're all pretty much the same, so there's no use in adhering to an inconvenient one.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:30 PM on September 26, 2007 [3 favorites]


This statement is incorrect in so many ways, and makes so many assumptions that it's difficult for me to start to say what is wrong with it.

In your opinion. In my opinion, I don't know a single guy who would marry a woman with whom he had never slept. Sure, this is anecdotal, but it's also a healthy sample size of thousands. 50 years ago, this would not be true, which was kinda the point I was driving at.

Buh? Single people can't raise kids now? Jesus.

Fair enough.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:32 PM on September 26, 2007


Another point worth noting: looking to Metafilter for support in your decision to remain abstinent until marriage is like looking to the Pope for support in your drinking the blood of babies slaughtered by your own hand. Only I think the latter might not be able to summon up as much faux-intellectual superiority as the former.

In my opinion, I don't know a single guy who would marry a woman with whom he had never slept. Sure, this is anecdotal, but it's also a healthy sample size of thousands. 50 years ago, this would not be true, which was kinda the point I was driving at.

Ok, it's clear you're not interested is seeing past the nose on your own face, so we'll leave it at that.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:33 PM on September 26, 2007 [3 favorites]


YA QUIT UR ReLiGiOn! THEIR ALL THE SAME! I'M NOT A TROLL! LULZ!
posted by Kwine at 12:34 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


Go gay.
posted by ND¢ at 12:34 PM on September 26, 2007


In your opinion. In my opinion, I don't know a single guy who would marry a woman with whom he had never slept. Sure, this is anecdotal, but it's also a healthy sample size of thousands. 50 years ago, this would not be true, which was kinda the point I was driving at.

Your grasp of sample sizes and statistics is rivaled by your lack of perspective and intelligence.
posted by Stynxno at 12:39 PM on September 26, 2007 [3 favorites]


Ok, it's clear you're not interested is seeing past the nose on your own face, so we'll leave it at that.

Casually dismissive? Check. Ad hominem? Check. Sure makes it easy for me to not care what you leave it at.
posted by solid-one-love at 12:39 PM on September 26, 2007


Yeah, find a better religion. They're all pretty much the same, so there's no use in adhering to an inconvenient one.

A Unitarian! Burn 'im!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:41 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


solid-none-love.
posted by quonsar at 12:50 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Casually dismissive? Check.

What else would you suggest? Your intellectual frame of reference on this topic is "everyone you know". And since I highly doubt you are close personal friends with thousands of men, there's no way you or I could know each of their personal views on sex before marriage. You don't know, and you don't know you don't know. It's 4 o'clock on a Wednesday. I just ain't got the time.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:52 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Go gay."

Nah, they can get married now.
posted by klangklangston at 12:53 PM on September 26, 2007


"Your grasp of sample sizes and statistics is rivaled by your lack of perspective and intelligence."

So you and ThePink haven't, you know? Or do you just not plan on marrying her?
posted by klangklangston at 12:54 PM on September 26, 2007


I'm actually founding my own religion that includes polyandrous marriages, so if you've got the money, I got the time, klangklang ;-)
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:56 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


Whoa. whoa, there. easy.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:59 PM on September 26, 2007


I do know, and I know that I know, thanks. Feel free to tell me what else I know and what my experience is. I love to laugh.

Seriously, unless you can find me a peer-reviewed scientific study that shows that fewer North American couples have premarital sex in 2007 than had it in (say) 1957, your own refutation of my point is no more valid than mine, despite your protestations.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:00 PM on September 26, 2007


"Go gay."

Nah, they can get married now.


Oh I wasn't making a recommendation. I am just a big supporter of gay and so I sometimes just pop into random places and say "Go gay." or "You can do it gay" or "Yay gay." Just voicing my support. I don't even know what we are talking about here.

Gay Rules!
posted by ND¢ at 1:02 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


TPS has the time for solid-two-love.
posted by amro at 1:03 PM on September 26, 2007


Hehehehe.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:07 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


I would certainly never date a woman who refused to have sex. That's completely insane. There are many, many men who share my perspective.

There aren't so many men, though, who would refuse to date a woman who would have sex, and those men can easily be tricked. It's a lot harder to trick someone into thinking you're having sex with them when you're actually not.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 1:08 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Mike-you're really awesome. I just need to say that.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:14 PM on September 26, 2007


Gay Rules!

Rule number 1: No poofters!
posted by fish tick at 1:22 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


or, uh MikO. shouldn't type emails to friends while posting to metafilter in the other window
posted by crush-onastick at 1:22 PM on September 26, 2007


"I'm actually founding my own religion that includes polyandrous marriages, so if you've got the money, I got the time, klangklang ;-)"

If you'll have a broke junior pornographer (then I'll have to go check with my girlfriend), sure, so long as mine and Stinky's bits don't have to touch.

"Oh I wasn't making a recommendation. I am just a big supporter of gay and so I sometimes just pop into random places and say "Go gay." or "You can do it gay" or "Yay gay." Just voicing my support. I don't even know what we are talking about here."

I really wish there was an Enola University, whose mascot was The Gay. (I'm trying to imagine some sort of giant plush sidelines figure that combines B-52 bombers and Tom of Finland).
posted by klangklangston at 1:23 PM on September 26, 2007


Gays can get married? Where in the U.S. other than MA? Either we aren't talking about the U.S. or I missed a major headline.
posted by sneakin at 1:24 PM on September 26, 2007


*Is* there anywhere besides the U.S.??
posted by fish tick at 1:27 PM on September 26, 2007


>In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly

This statement is incorrect in so many ways, and makes so many assumptions that it's difficult for me to start to say what is wrong with it.

I agree. It would have been better if he had been more specific:

"In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly unless you hope to marry:

-a member of the American Taliban

-a deeply closeted gay man

-a pariah who would desperately like to have sex NOW, but cannot find a partner, and is therefore willing to wait to marry you in between passive-aggressive attempts to get in your pants prematurely"

There are certainly some well-adjusted men willing to wait for someone who is celibate before marriage. But come on! All he said was that it reduces the likelihood significantly. And it does.
posted by Mayor Curley at 1:27 PM on September 26, 2007


attempts to get in your pants prematurely

They just need more practice or maybe to think about something else when they start getting close.
posted by ND¢ at 1:33 PM on September 26, 2007


PinkButterfly: post this question in AskMe.

MetaTalk receives a fraction of the users that visit AskMe. Another difference is that it's pretty much ok to give off-topic answers here (including snark, etc.). You're anonymous question was asked WAY back in July, and since there are some posters who ask new relationship questions every week, your question will definitely be ok to post (IMO).
posted by philomathoholic at 1:44 PM on September 26, 2007


Thanks, crush!

Here's a study or two for anyone who wants to chew on data about premarital sex.
posted by Miko at 1:47 PM on September 26, 2007


In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly (and reduces the likelihood of marrying someone from outside your immediate religious social circle by an even greater degree), even if you were interested in getting married.

Having less partners from which to choose is not the same thing as having a decreased likelihood of getting married. That's bad math.
posted by 23skidoo at 1:48 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Having less partners from which to choose is not the same thing as having a decreased likelihood of getting married.

Additional point: it might even increase the odds, since partners in the set of people who care about these things might in fact be more favorably disposed to marriage than partners in the general population.
posted by Miko at 1:53 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Anyone say nunnery?

That seems kind of mean, I must say.


I would disagree that it's mean. If you've got the appropriate religious convictions, and you don't want to get married, a convent could provide a nice group of like-minded people to be friends/roommates/coworkers/etc. I'm certainly not saying a forever-single girl must become a nun, just that it might be a pleasant option.
posted by vytae at 1:53 PM on September 26, 2007


Chuckles writes "User X's Recent Activity only gathers information about their most recent 7 days of activity. So, once you've posted to the thread, it will again appear in your recent activity; however, it will not appear in anyone else's recent activity, until he/she adds a new comment in that thread."

The My Comments page will dredge up a year old thread if a new comment is made within. I just posted in your bicycle tube AskMe so you can see this in action.
posted by Mitheral at 1:59 PM on September 26, 2007


Honestly, PinkButterfly, I doubt very strongly you are going to get a much better range of responses than you got in your original question. Less noise of the "you don't have to get married to shack up" variety, much much more noise of the "your religion is dumb" variety. And probably pretty much the same useful answers you got first time around, more or less.

First, this is a group of people that can't put their issues with religion behind them to answer a simple question about alcohol-free flavor extracts. It won't be as bad as in MeTa, where there are no rules, but a (presumably) unwanted discussion of the sensibility of your belief system is inevitable.

Second, the basic reality is that AskMe doesn't really do a very good job with this sort of "what do I do with my life" question. It's too open-ended, too personal and too vulnerable to mind-numbing platitudes and generic self-help blather. Get a hobby, and a pet, and a houseplant. Volunteer. Get counseling. If you can extract specific areas from the responses or your question (i.e. what's the best kind of dog for an efficiency apartment, or I may never get married, how do I deal with relatives who won't drop the subject), you're likely to have better luck. You get a question a week, you know.

Finally, to the whole "if you won't put out, you'll never get married" "debate," there are, duh, people who follow through on a religiously inspired intention to maintain celibacy outside of marriage, and it requires only a modicum of thought to realize that PinkButterfly is unlikely, given her intentions, to date/seek husband material very far outside of this group. So I have to side with the assessment that a casual survey of S-O-L's slutty friends just isn't relevant in this case. Her marriageable pool is probably most defined by religious adherence, premarital celibacy being merely an aspect of this.
posted by nanojath at 2:08 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


fish tick:

Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Canada...etc and so on.
posted by sneakin at 2:17 PM on September 26, 2007


sneakin:

I was being facetious, given the usa-centric nature of MetaFilter.
posted by fish tick at 2:21 PM on September 26, 2007


In my opinion, I don't know a single guy who would marry a woman with whom he had never slept.

Actually, I'm one of those male anomalies who wants to wait till' marriage for sex.

So, yea I know where you're coming from, PinkButterfly. Being 25 and single, I've come to realize that the older I get, there's that much less of a chance I'll find a female with the same sexual preferences as me.
As I'm guessing you're come to realize, choosing to wait until marriage to have sex will significantly reduce your potential pool of people to not just marry, but also date. Just mentioning I want to wait for marriage immediately brings most interactions with the better half straight from possibly dating to pure friendship zone. People don't want to wait for sex. It's not a good or bad thing- it's just the the reality of living in 2007.

That said, go find a single's group at a local Church. Speaking from personal experience, short of narrowing your pool of marriage potential males to religious organizations, finding someone to marry is extremely difficult.

And if you don't care about marriage, you can basically do anything with your life. Peace corps. Lay missionary work. Galavant around the world living off working in hostels. Work on a cruise line. Go back to school for a PhD. You really have the freedom to do what you want. Do it.

And, if you're curious with other questions for someone in the same predicament, e-mail's in my profile.
posted by jmd82 at 3:24 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Actually, I'm one of those male anomalies who wants to wait till' marriage for sex.


And I know a whole bunch of "anomalies", as you say. Yes, waiting till after marriage for sex is not the norm anymore, but it isn't almost nonexistant as solid-one-love seems to believe.

I've been with my boyfriend for more than a year now (he's 27, I'm 25) and we BOTH think it's wise to wait. And not just for the religious issues, but for a lot of factors. We each live with our families (who don't aprove of premarital sex, so we'd have to be sneaking around) and we have a lot of plans for the future, so we don't want to have the slightest risk of a pregnancy right now, among other things.

Anyway, some of my girl-friends also think like this, and some of my male-friends do too.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 3:35 PM on September 26, 2007


"Drink heavily."

Aye, always a good answer.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:47 PM on September 26, 2007


"Anyone say nunnery?"

...


"Go gay"

...


"solid-none-love"



So, solid-nun-love it is.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:55 PM on September 26, 2007


Yes, yes, we all know SOMEONE, or even several someones, who would wait until marriage before having sex. But all SOL said was "In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly," and that's absolutely true. Take the entire population of men, and then restrict to only those who agree to your terms (no sex before marriage, or no oral sex, or no eating the flesh of animals, or no speaking in French or no wearing garments of cotton or no living in a big city, etc, etc) and you're reducing the likelihood of getting married significantly. For TPS to say otherwise is foolish, and for stynxno to side with her is, well.
posted by jonson at 3:56 PM on September 26, 2007


Take the entire population of men, and then restrict to only those who agree to your terms (no sex before marriage, or no oral sex, or no eating the flesh of animals, or no speaking in French or no wearing garments of cotton or no living in a big city, etc, etc)

How about hand jobs? I'd settle for a quick hand job if that's all that's on offer?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:05 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


I've known quite a few religious people who chose not to get married and have led fulfilling lives. It's quite common with my religion, and we don't have premarital sex or cohabitate either.

The thing to remember is this: you can still love and give to others even if you never marry and have children. I have an aunt who has not married, and she decided to become a missionary in the Dominican Republic. There are quite a few people who have made that choice. You can devote your life to study and to teaching if you are so inclined. You can build a tight, similarly-valued circle of friends and travel, teach, preach, explore, debate, encourage and love each other for the rest of your lives. You can find another way to serve and give to others, and you will be loved in return. You can take in foster children. You never need be alone, you never need be lonely. I completely understand where you're coming from with this.

But remember: Own your life. Live it. Make choices. You don't have to choose to forego marriage and children now, but since it's not happening anytime soon, start building a life of value that will be enriching even if you never marry. Don't just sit and wait and worry and argue with yourself. Don't let relationships catch you off-guard. Be open but prepared. Live your life now.
posted by Danila at 4:20 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Is it wrong to tell a woman that you want to wait until marriage as a strategy to get her into bed? Guys will say anything.
posted by found missing at 4:34 PM on September 26, 2007


Jonson, I understand your argument about "chances," but your reasoning doesn't work where marriage is concerned, because the choice of a partner to marry is not a random choice among equivalent selections. The chooser is looking for some specific set of qualities, rather than just pulling an individual from the crowd, lottery-style.

Imagine a paper bag with salt and pepper packets in it. Let's say I have a salt packet already, and I'm looking for a pepper packet to match it. Anything salt, I'm not interested in. And let's say that the paper bag has 100 packets in it, 95 of which are salt, and 5 of which are pepper. My chances of getting a pepper packet on any dip are 1 in 20 (I think). Now let's say you come along and say "Know what your problem is? You don't have enough salt in there!" and you add 900 more salt packets.

Have you helped me find the one in five that's pepper? Have you "increased my chances?"

Your thoughts about "chances" only work if all the potential targets are equivalent, and the point here is that they're not. By confining her dating pool to people who agree with her worldview, the OP is probably, actually, more likely to find someone she would choose to marry, and who would choose to marry her.
posted by Miko at 4:42 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


one in five

by which I of course meant "one of the five"
posted by Miko at 4:51 PM on September 26, 2007


jonson you seem to be assuming a correlation between size of the candidate pool and suitability for marriage.

On preview as Miko wrote.
posted by Mitheral at 5:02 PM on September 26, 2007


Buh? Single people can't raise kids now? Jesus.

Good example. His parents weren't married to eachother.
posted by jonmc at 5:16 PM on September 26, 2007 [4 favorites]


If nothing else, refusing to have sex before marriage increases the likelihood of a short engagement.

Drinking heavily is probably a better option for those who are already married.
posted by dg at 5:25 PM on September 26, 2007


Maybe you can look for a version of Jesus who thinks your pancreas is the inherently sinful organ to use? As in, the thing He ostensibly gave you but still holds the lease. Yeah, maybe it's your pancreas and insulin before marriage is what's sinful. That way you could bone.

That's just a suggestion. Either way it sounds like Jesus is an unreasonable control freak who just wants to fuck with you as part of a power trip.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:41 PM on September 26, 2007




I find the assertion that people who eschew premarital intercourse are less likely to get married extraordinarily suspect. They're just dating in a different pool. I have to say, though, that people who place this restriction on themselves really shouldn't even bother trying to date in the the general pool, as it were. As jmd82 suggests, you pretty much have to go looking for people of the same convictions as you, because most people won't put up with it. In other news, wow, combining sex and religion really brings out the best in people.
posted by nanojath at 7:45 PM on September 26, 2007


Yeah I once did a girl in a church and I can attest to that.
posted by ND¢ at 8:37 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


. o 0 ( god's little ND¢ gift to women )
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

reckon i could get the hang of neo-filter.
posted by de at 9:15 PM on September 26, 2007


How about hand jobs?

That's what you say every time.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:22 PM on September 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


Ok, it's clear you're not interested is seeing past the nose on your own face, so we'll leave it at that.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:33 PM on September 26 [1 favorite +] [!]


Your grasp of sample sizes and statistics is rivaled by your lack of perspective and intelligence.
posted by Stynxno at 1:39 PM on September 26 [3 favorites +] [!]


ooh, a couples tag team! classy!
posted by Hat Maui at 9:55 PM on September 26, 2007


What's your point, Hat Maui?
posted by dg at 10:19 PM on September 26, 2007


You could do what all of my horny but religious friends did: fuck like rabbits until you get married, and then deeply, seriously get born again to the point where you're concerned about the loose morals of today's youth, etc. Mandatory counseling and chaperoning youth in your church as to the dangers of sinful living, of course.

Seems like a good gig to me. And if you happen to become single again, you can then freely bone/be boned and simply repeat the cycle if you remarry.
posted by maxwelton at 10:28 PM on September 26, 2007


That's what you say every time.

Nothing like a good reach-around, Blazecock. And the last time was *nothing* like a good reach-around.

But I'm sure we still qualify for the Metafilter branch of Promise Keepers anyway.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:01 AM on September 27, 2007


I had a female friend who was of the opinion that she could have as much sex as she wanted: since she wasn't ever going to get married, none of it could possibly be premarital, and she therefore felt she didn't break any of the "rules".

I think she had a point...
posted by DreamerFi at 2:31 AM on September 27, 2007


Thepinksuperhero:
Another point worth noting: looking to Metafilter for support in your decision to remain abstinent until marriage is like looking to the Pope for support in your drinking the blood of babies slaughtered by your own hand.
Well, with the current pope, that simile suggests we're all happy abstinents.
posted by notsnot at 5:21 AM on September 27, 2007


Anyone say nunnery?

Nah. Shaker community. That furniture won't build itself, y'know.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:11 AM on September 27, 2007


PinkButterfly: I love pink and butterlies, there you go!
I've been a fan of MeFi for months and have just finally gotten around to signing up. I'm excited.


Meanies.
posted by craniac at 7:08 AM on September 27, 2007


I'm waiting until marriage to stop having sex. At least, that's what happened the first time....
posted by Floydd at 8:33 AM on September 27, 2007


A totally snarky observation: I've never felt a need to delay sex until marriage. One thought I have when people are doing that is "How great do you think is going to be? What magical, special interchange do you think it actually is? I mean, it's fun, and certainly more intimate than most things you do with others, but it ain't worth all that buildup, IMO. I wonder what questions plague people who did wait, and discover...whatever they discover. I'm just not sure what's to be gained by this waiting.
posted by Miko at 9:04 AM on September 27, 2007


Wait, 'butterlies'?
posted by found missing at 9:12 AM on September 27, 2007


I didn't think that she was the one for me, butterlies about premarital celibacy convinced me that it would work out. Then ND162; did her in the church.
posted by Kwine at 9:32 AM on September 27, 2007


My kingdom for a live preview that matches the actual comment appearance.
posted by Kwine at 9:34 AM on September 27, 2007


Ah here, I am.

Thanks for the uh...responses. Haha.

I expected to get a bit of everything (snark, helpful advice, "your religion sucks," etc.) and I believe I got all of that and more. The negative comments about waiting and/or religion did not offend me. I actually laughed at klangklangston for his suggestion of Anyone say nunnery?

Those who say that a follow-up in ten years would be better, I would agree. My original post provided me with a bunch of great answers that I feel are helpful whether or not someone is waiting for marriage.

It was pointed out to me that my negative view of marriage could have a lot to do with my parents' marriage, which I made a post about a while back. I agree and am working on separating what happened to them from what I envision for my future.

Miko A totally snarky observation: I've never felt a need to delay sex until marriage. One thought I have when people are doing that is "How great do you think is going to be?

I know some people expect it to be beautiful and magical, and I used to be one, but my expectations have been drastically lowered by friends/relatives who have told me otherwise. But waiting isn't really about building up for a magical moment as much as it is about doing what the Bible says. I think it cheapens what is supposed to be a special activity between husband/wife to share it with a bunch of other people. I do understand your thinking, though.
posted by PinkButterfly at 9:54 AM on September 27, 2007


I realize I seem to contradict myself. By magical I'm referring to the actual...feeling (blush).

By special activity I'm more referring to the symbolism and meaning.
posted by PinkButterfly at 9:56 AM on September 27, 2007


Ah, better not to pick and choose which biblical prescriptions to follow.
posted by found missing at 10:06 AM on September 27, 2007


Yes, yes, we all know SOMEONE, or even several someones, who would wait until marriage before having sex. But all SOL said was "In 2007, rejecting premarital sex reduces the likelihood of getting married significantly," and that's absolutely true. Take the entire population of men, and then restrict to only those who agree to your terms (no sex before marriage, or no oral sex, or no eating the flesh of animals, or no speaking in French or no wearing garments of cotton or no living in a big city, etc, etc) and you're reducing the likelihood of getting married significantly. For TPS to say otherwise is foolish, and for stynxno to side with her is, well.

Worth repeating.
posted by dreamsign at 10:07 AM on September 27, 2007


Ah, better not to pick and choose which biblical prescriptions to follow.

I realized that I was opening myself up to criticism by elaborating on my position, but since people took the time to respond to me I figured I would respond back.

That book does look interesting. Must have been a crazy year. Haha.
posted by PinkButterfly at 10:10 AM on September 27, 2007


Yeah, no disrespect, but I've always thought that reasoning faulty, and not just because the Bible is all over the place. The "cheapening" of a "special moment" is what I find to be hoopla. You'll find, if you do get married and have sex, that there will be "cheapened" and non-"special" moments within any average sex life regardless of the rings. Some nights it'll be as spiritual as you imagine. Other nights you realize it can be boring or even unpleasant and empty with anybody, spouse included.

In human history, there have been a vast array of stories and belief systems built up around the mystique of virginity and the supposed 'magic' of sex. Sex is not that different from many other human interactions, though, and I side with those anthropologically minded folks who see most exhortations to avoid sex as having the single social utility of controlling fertility (somewhat) and preventing early death.
posted by Miko at 11:31 AM on September 27, 2007


Invest in sex toys.
posted by dazed_one at 12:10 PM on September 27, 2007


Yes. Yes, let us turn this into a discussion of whether God disapproves of masturbation. Let us do that RIGHT NOW.
posted by nanojath at 1:32 PM on September 27, 2007


sure, I think it's called worshiping at the temple
posted by found missing at 2:48 PM on September 27, 2007


"I actually laughed at klangklangston for his suggestion of Anyone say nunnery?"

That's good, because I meant it to be funny.

Not Opheliac.
posted by klangklangston at 3:00 PM on September 27, 2007


Anal intercourse has been a surprisingly popular option among unmarried women in homodox Catholic countries for centuries as a way of enabling would-be brides to preserve their "virginity". Also, apparently, frottage, interfemory, axillarianism, tribadism, and spagnolas are sometimes employed for this purpose. I guess it very much depends on how your religion, and your future spouse, defines "sex".
posted by meehawl at 3:06 PM on September 27, 2007


I think it cheapens what is supposed to be a special activity between husband/wife to share it with a bunch of other people.

Not trying to be snarky or anything, but before marriage even existed, sex was meant as a mechanism so we could reproduce. That's just how we're built. Therefore, saying that it's supposed to be between a husband and a wife is, in my opinion, silly. Before marriage existed, was everyone who had a child a sinner since, in essence, there was no wedlock to have a child in?

Anyway, in answer to the original question: You're 25. People are living longer and longer as time goes on and science progresses. It's not uncommon to get married in your 30's these days.

I'm 23 and I worry about this stuff as well--it's part of society--but I also know that if I concentrate on the stuff that makes me happy, then a guy who wants a girl like me will see I'm happy, and will be more attracted to me in the end because I have my ducks in a row.

The more you dwell on the final goal of getting married, the more difficult it will be for you to find a guy. Anyone, male or female, can tell if someone's desperate. Desperation is a turn-off.
posted by Verdandi at 6:09 PM on September 27, 2007


Anyway, in answer to the original question: You're 25.

I'm not sure why you think I'm 25. I'm actually 22.
posted by PinkButterfly at 8:13 PM on September 27, 2007


PinkButterfly: Ack, sorry... misread another poster's comment and thought it was your age. My apologies.
posted by Verdandi at 8:35 PM on September 27, 2007


Mike-you're really awesome. I just need to say that.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:14 AM


eponysterical.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:37 PM on September 27, 2007


The more married people I meet, the less happy they are. I know very few happily-married couples, and even less of the people in those marriages are on their first marriage. My mom, who was raised very conservatively, never thought she would say this to me, but she told me to live with someone before I married them, for at least a year, because you don't know what they're really like unless you live with them.

Note: I said live with them, not sleep with them. You could have separate bedrooms. I know that most Christians (my old church included - I'm no longer practicing) assume that living together = sleeping together. Not necessarily true. If your church would judge you for that, well, it's between you and your boyfriend and God, not you and them. And living together could make your temptation levels go WAY up... again, that's between you and your boyfriend and God, no one else. You do not have to answer to a church.
posted by IndigoRain at 1:32 AM on September 28, 2007


For what it's worth, my roommate in college, who is Jewish, is engaged to a Catholic girl and they're waiting until marriage. So you aren't strictly required to only date in your religion and some guy may fall enough in love with you to respect your wishes even if he doesn't really believe in religion the same way you do.

I think everything else that has been said has been said, except this: while you can marry whoever you want whenever you want PinkButterfly, I hope you aren't picking parts of the bible to deny others the right to marry whoever they want whenever they want. Because that's just not cool. And if you do feel that way, well, I hope you will reconsider.
posted by Green With You at 11:54 AM on September 29, 2007


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