What will we think about and why? December 14, 2007 12:47 PM   Subscribe

It's chatfilter because "major issues" is objective and undefinable, or if not undefinable, a distasteful acceptance of political groupthink. Well, anywho, it's standing, so let's put discussion here.

My "major issue" is a federal ban on same-sex marriage, and here's a web resource for your discussion! Have at thee!
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur to Etiquette/Policy at 12:47 PM (60 comments total)

Chatfilter is subjective. NEXT.
posted by nanojath at 12:52 PM on December 14, 2007


Oops, I meant subjective. not objective. Thanks for the mental jog, nano.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:56 PM on December 14, 2007


What I would like to do is send out an email with all of the major issues of this presidential race, along with my view on those issues in order to spark further discussion and debate.

BLOCK SENDER
posted by brain_drain at 12:59 PM on December 14, 2007 [4 favorites]


GOOGLE DON HO
posted by cog_nate at 1:04 PM on December 14, 2007 [3 favorites]


The only question mark in the post is:

What are the major issues for the 2008 presidential race, and what are the best links that support your view of those issues?

That's not Chatfilter. The end.
posted by Avenger50 at 1:07 PM on December 14, 2007


HOOGLE GON DO
posted by dersins at 1:09 PM on December 14, 2007


THUNDERCATS HO
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:12 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


THUNDERCATS HO = CHATTER HOUNDS
and so the circle closes.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:14 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


I am the poster, and I am sorry that my question stirred up such negative feelings. I honestly did not believe it was chatfilter. I think my mistake was putting anything about my plan to send out an email to my family. If I had just left the question as what are the major issues, and do you have links to those, I don't think people would have been as up in arms.

Yes, I realize that in all families, sending around an email with your views on the issue might be weird. However, like I said, over email the last couple of weeks we have already been having an enjoyable, civil, and *gasp* fun discussion about some aspects of global warming as well as the right choice for president. I thought it would be fun to push the discussion forward a little bit into some other areas, especially areas that are likely to be discussed much in the future because of the presidential election (especially since we were already discussing which candidates we like). Naively, I thought AskMe might be a good resource for articles on various issues (like the Times editorial that I linked to in my post). I will admit that at the moment I posted the question I was not thinking as much about how political issues can often cause such ill will here. That is my mistake. But as it stands, I think the question is answerable and has already received some good answers.
posted by bove at 1:19 PM on December 14, 2007


Also, if the "major issues" are so undefinable, how come so many of the sources linked to in this answer (thanks ericb) seem to come up with similar issues. When it comes time for a presidential race, a number of "major" issues seem to coalesce that all of the major candidates discuss. ericb's answer is exactly what I was looking for. I was also hoping for stuff like what WCityMike posted. Those are great answers to this question.
posted by bove at 1:23 PM on December 14, 2007


Hallelujah, deletion is in the grey. Did I miss an announcement? This is a momentous occasion for all, rejoice!

But as it stands, I think the question is answerable and has already received some good answers.

What, because you couldn't flip on the TV for ten minutes and let the whiz-bang motion graphics inform you of the real issues and spell out exactly just how concerned you and your family should be? THREAT LEVEL RED, conform citizen!
posted by prostyle at 1:26 PM on December 14, 2007


The AskMe is okay, so what is there to discuss?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:26 PM on December 14, 2007


my major issue is the national shortage of hops for craft brewed beers - i want to know where the candidates stand on this and how many beers they can drink before they have to sit down
posted by pyramid termite at 1:26 PM on December 14, 2007


bove: You are not the one who needs to apologize.
posted by absalom at 1:26 PM on December 14, 2007 [3 favorites]


Don't worry about it, bove. Politics makes people a little crazy, and you were bound to get some pushback, but I thought it was OK, and more importantly, so did the mods.
posted by languagehat at 1:29 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


I wasn't apologizing for the question itself, just the way I worded it, and also for my own forgetfulness. I have been around here for long enough to know that anything associated with politics needs to be handled carefully, and I posted my question quickly. If I had spent some more time thinking about it, I think I could have posted it in a way that a) didn't cause as much controversy; and b) generated better answers. I think the derails hindered the question. Oh well, live and learn.
posted by bove at 1:32 PM on December 14, 2007


my major issue is the national shortage of hops for craft brewed beers - i want to know where the candidates stand on this and how many beers they can drink before they have to sit down

Will somebody please please introduce televised binge drinking as a debate format already? SpikeTV, I'm looking at you.
posted by cog_nate at 1:33 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


Well, maybe I'm just disgusted with the predictability and inanity of it all. Anybody who has different political priorities is marginalized, nationwide and here. I understand the practicality of that, but legitimizing it in AskMe chafes.

Sorry, bove, I do think it's a fun discussion, but I, don't think there is, or should be, such a pat category as you propose. So, to make an analogy, to my ears the question reads as: "what are the top 5 best genres of movie and please provide links." Although, that being less politically charged, it wouldn't look, at first blush, as much like trollbait. It probably would stand, too, so I'm not beefing with the mods leaving your question up. I do think phrasing the question less definitively would have softened the blow. "Your" top issues, rather than "The" top issues. AskMe's not an accurate polling source, for one thing.

If we do acknowledge these "top" issues, as selected by the mainstream media, I feel they hardly need more of our attention, and the candidates don't even differ on them in ways that interest me. So, that's how my personal POV is involved. I thought it chatfilter, but would rather go into it here. Hope that doesn't seem like overdo.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:36 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


Okay, here. Name your issues and have your candidate all selected for you.
posted by miss lynnster at 1:42 PM on December 14, 2007


I am the poster, and I am sorry that my question stirred up such negative feelings.

Hello. I'm Ron Paul, presidential candidate and all around nice guy. In Ron Paul's American the issue of chatfilter posts will be addressed quickly, definitively, and irrevocably. I say bring back the firing squads! It's quick, inexpensive, and humane! Yes, in *my* America chatfilter posters will be dragged from their beds in the middle of the night to answer to Mr. Bullet. Thank you America! God Bless our Sacred Union!
posted by wfrgms at 1:47 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


Hehehe.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:48 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


Ambrosia Voyeur, I understand your position. And that is why I wish I had phrased my question a little more carefully. Now, personally, I think that the major issues that the media is highlighting align pretty well with issues that I feel are important (but with much different weighting in priority), but I can understand that not everyone feels that way.

What I was hoping for more than lists of issues, was links to good sources. So I was hoping for more stuff like: here is a source that outlines what I think we should do about healthcare. That way, in my family discussion I would have good sources to link to when people talked about different issues. Like I said, a better crafted question might have got some of those.
posted by bove at 1:50 PM on December 14, 2007


It's hardly legitimizing marginalized issues for some guys to say "I'd like to discuss the major issues of the coming election. what do you think they are?" It's just a private discussion and I'd imagine they can already discuss whatever marginalized issues they feel like bringing up at will.
posted by shmegegge at 1:52 PM on December 14, 2007


What annoys me about this question is that it's so easily Googleable. Candidates, for example, put out what they think on the issues on their websites, and there are scores of political tests to find out "Where you stand" on the issues. Which of course includes the issues. It's not hard to find this stuff out, so polling Metafilter seems weird.
posted by agregoli at 1:52 PM on December 14, 2007


also, the top issues do need attention because they're contentious and there's a lot of misinformation out there. that doesn't get any better if people stop talking about it and just trust the New York Post or FOX News.
posted by shmegegge at 1:53 PM on December 14, 2007


What annoys me about this question is that it's so easily Googleable.

and MySpaceable! so no one even needs to ask about it ever!

for real, though. he wasn't asking for candidates opinions exclusively. he was asking for the major issues and sites that defend the various positions on those issues. that isn't limited to candidates.
posted by shmegegge at 1:54 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


And.....it's still easily Googleable. Even candidate sites identify THE ISSUES without even reading about what they think about them.
posted by agregoli at 1:56 PM on December 14, 2007


my major issue is the national shortage of hops for craft brewed beers

My major issue is the national shortage of beer-powered hovercraft.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:56 PM on December 14, 2007


The problem is that a large part of the primary season is each party deciding what the major issues of the campaign are, and at this point those major issues are seriously contested and likely to change (see: Iraq becoming less of a concern to most likely voters).

The only real way to answer this accurately is in retrospect, though hypotheses may be advanced now to be tested by the voters a year from now.
posted by klangklangston at 2:01 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


I hope someone in the future will post a better question. Maybe something like: Pick whatever political topic or issue that you feel strongly about and give me a link to a source that best explains your views on that issue. Or, maybe a question like: If you could only link to one source that best describes your feelings on a topic, what would it be?

I realize that most of us feel strongly about a number of issues and that we can easily talk about how we feel off the top of our heads. However, I also think that many people here have read an article, or an editorial, and said to ourselves: "That is a great article, that really encapsulates how I feel and what I think should be done!" So that is what I was hoping for.
posted by bove at 2:02 PM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm less concerned with the major issues than I am with your major malfunction. What is it?

*ducks to avoid cortex/languagehat et. al stampeding to post "$20SAIT!"*
posted by Kwine at 2:11 PM on December 14, 2007


THUNDERCATS HO = O THAT'S CHUNDER, fwiw.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:23 PM on December 14, 2007


THUNDERCATS HO

Would that be Cheetara or Panthro?
posted by quin at 2:31 PM on December 14, 2007


I think we can all agree that the only issue is: Who should be president?
Has anyone else made that joke yet?
posted by Plutor at 2:32 PM on December 14, 2007


It's complete chatfilter. There's no real "objective" to the question. It's just a random "What's important in politics?" question. WTF. What's important is what you define as important. Everything else is just a discussion best left for someone's blog.

OTOH, if we leave "Why won't anyone love me?" questions on AskMeFi, this question is probably fair game.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:33 PM on December 14, 2007


(see: Iraq becoming less of a concern to most likely voters).

If by "Voters" you mean "People on TV." Polls indicate that while Iraq is not as important as it once was, it's still the most important issue by far. But all the democrats all have the same position, which is to leave behind a residual force, bla bla bla. So there's not much to talk about.
posted by delmoi at 2:45 PM on December 14, 2007


klang: That was my way homer. Temporal dependence. See, my pet issues are the ones you'll be wanting to discuss in the future.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:06 PM on December 14, 2007


"I think we can all agree that the only issue is: Who should be president?"

I think the issue is who shouldn't, but that's 'cause I'm a nattering nabob of negativity.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:07 PM on December 14, 2007


I also think that many people here have read an article, or an editorial, and said to ourselves: "That is a great article, that really encapsulates how I feel and what I think should be done!" So that is what I was hoping for.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe you should post that in the AskMe? I was quite confused by that question and the followup that you posted.
posted by sondrialiac at 3:11 PM on December 14, 2007


"If by "Voters" you mean "People on TV." Polls indicate that while Iraq is not as important as it once was, it's still the most important issue by far. But all the democrats all have the same position, which is to leave behind a residual force, bla bla bla. So there's not much to talk about."

No, I mean "likely voters" as defined by either Pew or Gallop, as reported a couple days ago on NPR.

But that's the second time in as many days where you've attempted to correct me and been wrong, so maybe you should knock that off until you have a firmer grip on what the hell you're talking about.
posted by klangklangston at 3:17 PM on December 14, 2007


"I think the issue is who shouldn't, but that's 'cause I'm a nattering nabob of negativity."

So, you're against the Agnew/Safire ticket?
posted by klangklangston at 3:18 PM on December 14, 2007


you should use italics for you quotes otherwise its confusing
posted by found missing at 3:19 PM on December 14, 2007


Hush, you illyrical industrialist of italicry.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:30 PM on December 14, 2007


What are the major issues for the 2008 presidential race, and what are the best links that support your view of those issues?

You started out well.

That would have been a good place to stop.
posted by cedar at 3:41 PM on December 14, 2007


"What are the major issues for the 2008 presidential race, and what are the best links that support your view of those issues?"

"Best" is subjective, and there is no one best answer = chatfilter.

I say that as someone who would pay money to have future questions like these back.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:45 PM on December 14, 2007


If you've had your major issue for twelve years without relief, try touching the hem of Ron Paul's garment.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:47 PM on December 14, 2007


"Best" is subjective, and there is no one best answer = chatfilter.

That is not a true representation of the chatfilter rules.
posted by smackfu at 4:00 PM on December 14, 2007


THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO and I'm late to the party as usual
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:15 PM on December 14, 2007


I worked for the Michigan Democratic Party for about three weeks, canvasing. Before every night, they made us put our hands together in a circle and yell "Thundercrats! Ho!"

That was, in fact, what made me decide never to come back.
posted by klangklangston at 4:36 PM on December 14, 2007


I think the question is just fine and not chatfilter, though it is easily google-able. Still, bove wanted links to the most persuasive arguments for/against on the major issues, and you can't google that. I'm glad the mods let it stand.
posted by misha at 4:41 PM on December 14, 2007


I think I just figured out a better definition of 'chatfilter'. This was looking pretty chatfiltery to me too, but after thinking about it a couple of minutes.... this definition might work:

A question is chatfilter if no answers can, even theoretically, be demonstrated to be unambiguously wrong.

We tend to focus on 'questions with right answers', and this one is a toughie, because it's hard to demonstrate that a particular answer actually is correct. However, it is quite easily possible to demonstrate that particular answers are wrong, i.e, "The price of suede is a critical issue in this election."

If it's a question like "What do you think is unacceptable behavior in a relationship?" then that's chatfilter. There are no wrong answers.

This definition would cover, however, book questions like, "I just read X, what else would I like?" -- because there couldn't be a demonstrably incorrect answer. So it's not a perfect definition, but I think it might be a better one than 'only questions that can be answered correctly.'
posted by Malor at 4:50 PM on December 14, 2007


My major issue is the swimsuit issue. Of Feild & Stream. Bikini-clad deer, w00t!
posted by jonmc at 5:00 PM on December 14, 2007


I think a federal ban on Same Old Marriage Sex is wrong.

I mean, sure, after a few years or marriage the sex can get a bit predictable. But. God damn. Banning it is a bit HARSH, donchathink? Some times it all we've got. Yeah. I KNOW what your gonna do. Your gonna do that same little "sexy" kitten purr noise. I'm okay with that. You don't need to do back-flips or anyth...

Oooooh. A ban on "Same Sex" Marriage.

Yeah. I don't think that is very nice either.

Carry on.
posted by tkchrist at 5:09 PM on December 14, 2007


THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO, OGLING RON PAUL.
posted by cog_nate at 6:12 PM on December 14, 2007


a distasteful acceptance of political groupthink.

Also known as "democracy."
posted by dhammond at 9:00 PM on December 14, 2007


SHNARF SHNARF LIONO
posted by poppo at 7:03 AM on December 15, 2007


Q- "Do I need to pull off the bellhousing to get to the clutch on my MGB?"
A- "Yes.*"

---

Q- "What's a good way to clean up an oil spill on my garage floor?"
A- "Here's what I do."
A- "Here's what I do."

---

Q- "What is a good resource for clutch repair on an MGB, and/or a good MGB mechanic in Brooklyn?"
A- "Here's a good resource."
A- "Here's another good resource."
A- "Here's a mechanic."

---

Q- "I'm thinking about selling my MGB, because I'm sick of fixing it. Do you think this is a good idea, and how much do you think I'll get for it? [more inside]"
A- "MGBs are money pits; I sold mine for the same reason."
A- "Don't sell it! Once you fix the key stuff, you'll be fine."
A- "Looking at it from your link, I'd say around $1400 as-is, more if you fix the transmission."
A- "I'll buy it from you if you decide to sell."

---

Q- "What's a good car to buy, that's fun like my old MGB but also reliable (not like my old MGB)?"
A- "Miata, without question, even a used one. Avoid British roadsters."
A- "Have you looked at the new Solstice? I don't know the reliability since it's new, but it's fun."
A- "Even an old MGB can be reliable, with the right maintenance and attention."
A- "I'm selling something that might be just what you're looking for; memail me."

---

Q- "I miss my old MGB. What other cars fall into that same category, where they're too much trouble to own but you miss them once you're gone?"
A- "MGB is the winner, nothing else comes close."
A- "It doesn't matter what kind of car it is, your crappy first car is always the one you miss."
A- "Anything starting with Fer and ending in ari."

---

So, when was the chatfilter line crossed? It's hard to say sometimes.

discuss....heh
posted by davejay at 2:15 PM on December 17, 2007


*I don't know if this is actually true
posted by davejay at 2:15 PM on December 17, 2007


truth be told, I don't even know for certain what a bellhousing is
posted by davejay at 2:16 PM on December 17, 2007


... yes?
posted by shmegegge at 2:17 PM on December 17, 2007


« Older You are not helping anyone...please contribute...   |   Sunday River Sunday meetup? Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments