Following in someone's good footsteps ... August 7, 2008 9:15 AM   Subscribe

Apology (too).

Hopefully following in Afroblanco's fine (and, as cortex put it well, menschy) example, I wanted to publicly apologize on MetaTalk to the Metafilter community. I have been more than somewhat assinine in many threads lately, and I really feel the need to just stand up and go, "I was a real shit. And I'm sorry for that."

I'd like to differ it somewhat from Afroblanco in that I wish to apologize for the way — the extremely poor way — in which I've communicated with others in Metatalk and in Metafilter (as opposed to the content of that communication, if I'm parsing Afroblanco's apology correctly).

I've let a great deal of anger shine through my postings. Honestly, that anger has occasionally startled even me.

This dates back at the very least to how I initially approached the debate in the original misogyny threads, and came to a peak recently with my behavior in the thread welcoming back Nicky.

I apologized to Nicky for the thread which led me to take a break, and she's very graciously accepted said apologies. Honestly, her incredible graciousness in her response to me just blew me away, and I instantly realized why she's a very beloved part of this community. I mean, just, wow.

I hope those who I offended with my actions will not take that moment of extremely poor behavior as indicative of my general personality. Hopefully you've all had moments where you just can't believe what you just did.

I'm hoping, and intending, for my future behavior on this site to contribute to the level of already fine discourse, and not to insult or mock those who I disagree with.

And for those moments where I already have insulted or mocked or just generally mudslung, and by doing so worsened things, I am sorry. If anyone feels the need to work out anything personally with me, please feel free to MeFi Mail me, or my e-mail's in my profile.

I should probably be at an upcoming meetup if anyone feels the need to throw a beer in my face or something. :-)
posted by WCityMike to MetaFilter-Related at 9:15 AM (270 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

Um, what's up with the group hugs today? You guys are starting to scare me.
posted by ornate insect at 9:23 AM on August 7, 2008


Come on, seriously??
posted by spicynuts at 9:26 AM on August 7, 2008


Stop it.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:29 AM on August 7, 2008


I apologize for suggesting that we kill and eat Nicky.
I apologize for saying that other bad thing in that other thread.
And most of all, I apologize for being an attention whore and trying to derail WCityMike's thread by making my own apologies here, when all the hugs, accolades, and offers of beer are rightfully his.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:33 AM on August 7, 2008 [6 favorites]


Apologizing for things is a sign of a weak character, you half-witted mooncalf.
posted by cmonkey at 9:34 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


spicynuts: "Come on, seriously??"

Yeah. Anger's been bleeding through a lot of my posts for a while; if it appears otherwise, it's perhaps only because the mods are fairly quick on the draw with the more egregious stuff.

When someone's been a shit for a while, I think sayin' something like this is appropriate. So I'm saying it, in hopes of cleaning the slate as best I can.
posted by WCityMike at 9:36 AM on August 7, 2008


I apologize for meatbomb's apology. And I apologize for the sudden rash of niceness and civility at metafilter. Be assured it won't last. The hissy fits, meltdowns, flamefests, smackdowns, showboating, navel gazing ennui, petty rivalries, wound licking, endlessly divisive threads, mass hysteria and childish antics will all be back in full force soon enough. Thank God.
posted by ornate insect at 9:38 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'm hoping, and intending, for my future behavior on this site to contribute to the level of already fine discourse, and not to insult or mock those who I disagree with.

This is lovely, and a motto by which we should all abide.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:42 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Oh you.
posted by netbros at 9:42 AM on August 7, 2008


Forgive me for I have sinned. It has been 3 years since my last apology. I have had unpure thoughts while reading MetaFilter.
posted by found missing at 9:44 AM on August 7, 2008 [4 favorites]


Apologies accepted, WCMike. I've followed your posts for a while, and I wondered what the heck had gotten into you once or twice, because normally your discourse is reasonable (even when I don't agree with it). Hope to hear some great stuff from you in future.
posted by lleachie at 9:45 AM on August 7, 2008


i meant every word i said. i'm not sorry, and i hate you all now more than ever.
posted by quonsar at 9:47 AM on August 7, 2008 [30 favorites]


Personally, I feel driven to respond to this outbreak of fluffiness and good manners by revelling in my assholishness, and making a series of MetaTalk posts glorifying all my bad-faith arguments and uncalled-for insults that have done so much to destroy this community.

Unfortunately, I find that I am just too much of a super-awesome lovely person, and so don't have any shit-flinging to celebrate. Fuck you all.

But the apologies are good.
posted by flashboy at 9:47 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


We expect nothing less of you, quonsar. Shine on, you crazy diamond.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:53 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


The management of this theater would like to apologize for the previous apologies and assure its patrons that the people responsible have been sacked.
posted by briank at 9:58 AM on August 7, 2008 [3 favorites]


I'm very glad today that I spent my five dollars. The way that this site can en masse go through fighty times and happy times makes me remember that it's more of a community than pretty much anything else on the internet.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:59 AM on August 7, 2008 [2 favorites]


Can we just start having "look at me look at me" threads? They feel more...sincere, somehow.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:00 AM on August 7, 2008 [4 favorites]


Fuck everybody.
posted by kbanas at 10:06 AM on August 7, 2008


kbanas--you're just building up credit for your inevitable apology thread. admit it.
posted by ornate insect at 10:08 AM on August 7, 2008


It's like a great big Irish family. You get drunk, say mean things to your brother, throw a few punches. In the morning, you both go to church. Then you go out and together, mug some British wanker.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:08 AM on August 7, 2008 [5 favorites]


kbanas--you're just building up credit for your inevitable apology thread. admit it.

Sigh. You're right.

I'd like to apologize for so obviously attempting to insult people in an effort to create my own apology thread later today. I should have been much more sly.
posted by kbanas at 10:09 AM on August 7, 2008


As someone who has been taken aback at your comments in some of those kinds of threads, thank you.
posted by agregoli at 10:10 AM on August 7, 2008


Now apologize for wearing that shirt.

apologies are good, very good, very important.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:12 AM on August 7, 2008


You know what I blame the general tone in this thread on the lack of acceptance of? Your apology.
posted by found missing at 10:13 AM on August 7, 2008


I apologize by proxy for the inevitable goofy backlash that comes with apparent trends in posting, sorta, even though it's part of the charm of this place when it isn't nasty.

Thanks, WCityMike.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:16 AM on August 7, 2008


I'll cut you, cortex.
posted by kbanas at 10:18 AM on August 7, 2008


And I apologize for concluding above that your apology is couched in qualifiers and is really a shameless and pitiful bid for attention and not an apology in any meaningful sense at all, and raise you a cutting!!!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:22 AM on August 7, 2008


I would like to apologize for being so boring and nonconfrontational lately that I have nothing to start a MeTa thread to apologize for.
posted by Ragma at 10:25 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Please consider this my vote for the creation of http://apologies.metafilter.com

...this is a democracy, right?
posted by toomuchpete at 10:25 AM on August 7, 2008


This is cool of you, WCityMike. Thanks, and I retract the all the nasty things I barely restrained myself from posting about you in the previous sexism threads. :)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 10:26 AM on August 7, 2008


ragma--apology accepted. we were all wondering what got into you
posted by ornate insect at 10:34 AM on August 7, 2008


As someone who has been taken aback at your comments in some of those kinds of threads, thank you.

Seconded.
posted by Powerful Religious Baby at 10:37 AM on August 7, 2008


Divine_Wino: "Now apologize for wearing that shirt."

I'm sorry for wearing this shirt. :)
posted by WCityMike at 10:39 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


You are a good man, WCityMike. Nicely said. Often apologies are for the benefit of the person doing the apologizing, as well. It allows a tangible"start over" point, where as things kept unsaid often still have some pull on us.

More people should apologize for stuff (in general).
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:39 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Good on you, WCityMike, for recognizing your anger and having the guts to make such a heartfelt public confession - I for one appreciate it. And what lleachie said. As far as I am concerned it's a Brand New Day.

You certainly aren't alone in that anger thing online, it's endemic; amazing how easy it can be to have your buttons pushed and how strong the urge can be to say something harsh, I've felt it so many times, most of us have, I would guess. But fortunately, I lurked in mefi and metatalk for a few years before joining and that was a good learning experience - from that catbird seat, I saw how how angry people could get and how inconsequential the issues really were; I watched many good people who loved the site leave just because they got too frustrated about this or that. So lest I too let my passions drive me into cutting off my nose to spite my face, I set a rule for myself that I would not post unkindly or in haste and I would try to avoid being reactionary. For the most part, I still live by that. If I am strongly annoyed by a thread or a comment, I try to leave it alone for awhile; or I write a reply but wait to send it. This approach means I sometimes have to lay low in some very fascinating threads and my comments are probably sometimes too damn vanilla. On the other hand, I've participated regularly for about 6 years now without flaming out, I still really enjoy Mefi, and my blood pressure is good ;-)

I hope you can find a way to get to a place that will let you post without being angry - maybe others can share their strategies for how they deal with that impulse. I do think this public acknowledgment is a good, positive first step.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:40 AM on August 7, 2008 [5 favorites]


I would like to apologize for jumping on the bandwagon with all of the other apologies being posted in this thread.

Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?
posted by owtytrof at 10:40 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


First Prize for best apology is a Cadillac. Second Prize is a set of steak knives. Third Prize: your're fired?

Who am I? Fuck you, that's who I am!

WCityMike, just funnin'! You've always been a good contributor to MeFi, as far I'm concerned.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 10:48 AM on August 7, 2008


So what is that, owtytrof, 24?
posted by netbros at 10:48 AM on August 7, 2008


Good job, WCityMike. As another user who was miffed at your comment in the NickySkye thread, and said so, I appreciate it.
posted by yhbc at 10:55 AM on August 7, 2008


Hey, WCityMike, thanks for doing this. I appreciate that you know as well as I do when you, or anyone, is being a boor. I'm sure it stung to be called out for it, and the only reason I would do it is in the hope of a quick return to form from a good guy. So, I'm satisfied as can be. I hope you're feeling less grar grar grar. Welcome back! There's still some punch and pie!!
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:00 AM on August 7, 2008


I'm sorry I'm not home right now, I'm posting on the interwebs, but leave a message and I'll call you back.
posted by Debaser626 at 11:14 AM on August 7, 2008


Yeah, I'd noticed that you were drifting off key, WCityMike. I'm glad to see you've gotten back on track.

Good show.
posted by Kattullus at 11:22 AM on August 7, 2008


I'd like to apologize for this outburst and let everyone know that I STILL FUCKING HATE EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:30 AM on August 7, 2008


Yeah but where is the thread damanding that Quonsar and JonMC have a drinking battle a la Raiders of the Lost Ark inside the Thunderdome?

Apologies are great but do not make for entertaining daydreaming at my cubicle, you guys.

Seriously though I think it's so sweet when everybody is nice to each other here, and/or someone is willing to admit to being wrong. It is the great equalizer.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 11:37 AM on August 7, 2008


I'd like to apologize for this outburst and let everyone know that I STILL FUCKING HATE EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU.

Except for me, right? Or were you lying about that, too?

You never called me. I thought that that night was special.
posted by loquacious at 11:42 AM on August 7, 2008


It had to be done.
posted by konolia at 11:45 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


This kind of thing always happens after a day or two of enthusiastic dick punching. Everyone uncurls from fetal positions and gets all magnanimous and forgiving.
posted by Drastic at 11:46 AM on August 7, 2008


I apologize for being an argumentative dick in lots of politicsfilter threads between 4 and 8 years ago. I have since turned over a new leak and am trying really hard not to be a jerk :-)
posted by syzygy at 11:46 AM on August 7, 2008


I, for one, accept your apology unconditionally, WCM, and speaking as one of those who has disagreed with you in the past: "See? I was right all along! I was right, you were wrong, I was right! Neener neener neener!'

Nothing personal, but I so rarely get a chance to do that.
posted by wendell at 11:46 AM on August 7, 2008


Turned over a new LEAF... Touch typing in the dark :-(
posted by syzygy at 11:47 AM on August 7, 2008


I apologize for being naked right now. I apologize for lying about being naked right now. I apologize for lying about lying about being naked right now. I apologize for the corrosive and socially isolating anonymity of the internet, and for being, in truth, a self-replicating nanobot programmed to leave pithy human-like remarks on metafilter at random intervals.
posted by ornate insect at 11:47 AM on August 7, 2008


Please makes this stop.
posted by fixedgear at 11:47 AM on August 7, 2008


Can't refresh a browser
Can't refresh a browser without ctrl-r
This threads for hire
Even if we're touchtyping in the dark

posted by cortex (staff) at 11:55 AM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Thanks for this, and ignore the idiots who think more than one apology on the site is embarrassing and requires heavy application of snark. You did a good thing here, and I, like others, appreciate it.
posted by languagehat at 11:57 AM on August 7, 2008


Mods,

Could one of you whip up a scorecard listing all users, what they've apologized for, and what they still need to apologize for? I'm sorry to bother you with this request.
posted by lukemeister at 12:02 PM on August 7, 2008


As someone who has been taken aback at your comments in some of those kinds of threads, thank you.

This goes for me as well. I'm glad you're feeling better about things WCM and you're forgiven.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:03 PM on August 7, 2008


ignore the idiots who think more than one apology on the site is embarrassing and requires heavy application of snark

I am expecting an apology for this. Or at least a better sense of humor: the snark does not necessarily mean that the snarker is pissing on the apology; it's far more lighthearted than that. For the record, I appreciate the serious apologies (although not knowing what they refer to, I thought at least some levity might be appropriate).

posted by ornate insect at 12:05 PM on August 7, 2008


Please?
posted by everichon at 12:07 PM on August 7, 2008


Can we start one big apology thread and let everyone grovel in one spot if these apologies must be seen by all? Serious request. Because it's cool that people want to own up to their asshaberdashery, but all the threads for this are getting as tired as the "can't we all be nice?" threads. They're even starting to look more like a ploy for attention than a genuine apology. Wouldn't it be more genuine to send an email to the people you know you've offended instead of grandstanding? If you must have everyone forgive you at once, just, you know. Make a point of not being an asshat again.
posted by katillathehun at 12:11 PM on August 7, 2008 [7 favorites]


the snark does not necessarily mean that the snarker is pissing on the apology; it's far more lighthearted than that.

Granted, that may well be true as intent goes, but reading tone in internet text is notoriously difficult, and in cases where someone is putting themselves into a willfully vulnerable position it's probably a really good idea to adjust your authorial threshold a bit if you want to be sure that, intentions bedamned, you don't come off to others like you are indeed pissing on someone or something. Weird, tricky territory, but there it is.

posted by cortex (staff) at 12:13 PM on August 7, 2008 [2 favorites]


I apologize for forgiving everyone.
posted by trip and a half at 12:14 PM on August 7, 2008


Metatalk: Weird, tricky territory
posted by everichon at 12:14 PM on August 7, 2008


ignore the idiots who think more than one apology on the site is embarrassing and requires heavy application of snark

Well, I'M SORRY YOU FEEL THAT WAY

did you see what I did there

I tend to think that the best way of making up for toolish behavior is simply to stop being a tool and that anything else is basically just self-promotion, so I'm somewhat predisposed to write something like this off as fishing for hair-touslings and backslaps. It'd be lovely to be proven wrong, so I dunno, whatever, I guess we'll see.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:15 PM on August 7, 2008 [2 favorites]


but all the threads for this

We've had two in short order, when we usually go a very long time without any. I don't see any reason to think this is the vanguard of a new thing on Metatalk rather than just a rare spike. An apology happens every once in a while; once in every greater while, it even happens twice.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:16 PM on August 7, 2008


cortex--well I apologize on behalf of all the snark on this thread by me and by others: none of it seems even remotely mean-spirited to me. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who has no idea what the apologies refer to: the intention was just to make it a little lighter around here, that's all. I'm amazed anyone could read any of the snark on this thread and think it was mean-spirited or meant to belittle.
posted by ornate insect at 12:18 PM on August 7, 2008


Man, this BrendaLeeFilter is gettin' outta hand. I keed, good on you, WCM!

I'm sorry I took the last box of crayons from the general store!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:22 PM on August 7, 2008


I don't see any reason to think this is the vanguard of a new thing on Metatalk rather than just a rare spike.

Of course; but can't we joke a little about there being two apology threads? Must both be met with only solemnity? I don't think the snark is meant to be disrespectful. This is still metafilter right, you're not all zombies posing as the people who normally post here? (that was a joke; cue Astro Zombie).
posted by ornate insect at 12:22 PM on August 7, 2008


I was gonna start my own apology thread, but that would probably make work for some poor moderator so I decided not to. But I'd like to publicy apologize for making a 'hardon' joke in the extremely serious and very grave Hadron Collider thread. This caused a mod to have to click their mouse, possibly several times, and for that I'm sorry.

I'm a little less sorry for sugessting that someone 'shoot a man just to watch him die' in the "What is there to do in Reno besides gamble?" AskMe thread. I thought it was pretty clever and I'm mostly sorry that more people didn't get to see it.

So, apologies all around, sincerely.
posted by fixedgear at 12:27 PM on August 7, 2008 [3 favorites]


I'm amazed anyone could read any of the snark on this thread and think it was mean-spirited or meant to belittle.

I'm not amazed or even surprised, but I can understand how it could be surprising to someone who was just trying to be lighthearted, so I hear you. I can read all your comments in here and give every one a pass as "just goofing around" without much effort, so I have no trouble seeing it from that perspective.

But it's hard to totally decontextualize this stuff from some of the genuinely hard interactions the apologies are referring to; and it's also hard to separate what looks like yet more willfully disruptive, crapping-on-a-nice-thing behavior from a lot of crappy behavior that's appeared in some of the threads that these apologies are tied to. So whether you knew you were riverdancing your ass into a minefield or not, the minefield is there.

Which, again: tricky territory. But even when you're feeling like it's just time to have a laff or whatever, doing a quick headcheck and wondering if you're in the right place for it isn't an unreasonable thing for people to expect you to do. It's kind of basic social contract stuff, even if Metatalk doesn't always shine on that front. A long, grinding history of willful assholishness on the part of one party or another has kind of made this a complicated place to do something like apologize, and it bothers me when I see something like a cynical pileon in response to an earnest apology—even when the piling on wasn't intentional and the cynicism was intended as joking.

The aggregate effect of five people making five different "I'm just goofing around" snarks right at the start of a thread is probably a lot more striking and distracting than any of them intended their own little comment to be, too. For which I'm not trying to blame you or any of those other folks for not being psychic in seeing that coming, but I would hope there's at least some sort of greater awareness of the potential ramifications of jumping snark-first into a thread like this in the future, etc. You know?

posted by cortex (staff) at 12:31 PM on August 7, 2008 [5 favorites]


Man, that's a lot of small text.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:33 PM on August 7, 2008


Nobody else apologize, I'm running out of bears.
posted by Skorgu at 12:35 PM on August 7, 2008


but I would hope there's at least some sort of greater awareness of the potential ramifications of jumping snark-first into a thread like this in the future, etc. You know?

Well maybe you're taking this whole thing just a wee bit too seriously? Re-read my first post:

Um, what's up with the group hugs today? You guys are starting to scare me.

That's meant in a "what's-up-with-the-suddenly-all-nice-metafilter" kind of totally lighthearted way; it's not meant to piss on the sincerity of either of the metatalk apology threads--in fact it does not even reference directly either apology. Expecting no one to comment in a lighthearted, totally non-mean-spirited and joking way about the sudden appearance of two apology threads seems a bit odd and unrealistic.

I'm hoping WCityMike understood that none of the snark here was meant to disparage him, but just to be clear once and for all: none of the snark I wrote in this thread was in ANY WAY meant to piss on the apologies of WCityMike or Afroblanco.

posted by ornate insect at 12:45 PM on August 7, 2008


I don't apologize. I hate all of you. Especially thought of you with the unmitigated arrogance to so much as dare to defy me in a thread. You? Question me? The very notion is nonsensical, like "digital assistant," and "Do-It-Yourself."

I am born of the the nation's industrial and political elites. You are born of the nation's light beers and back seats.

My arguments are unabasehd proclamations of class and power. You arguments are desperate appeals to logic and truth. Truth? Ha! The truth is my lunch included the meat of an animal you believe to be extinct. The truth is that your lunch included plants grown in manure and pulled from the dirt. Enjoy your dirt plants, proles, while I enjoy this succulent Yeti.

I dictate sharpened witticisms and piercing insights to my manservant Portnoy, who diligently enters them into the Metafilter on a keyboard made from the polished ivory of a baby Tyrannosaur. I venture to guess you "type" in your comments by yourselves. Can you imagine that, Portnoy? They touch the keys with their bare hands, the filthy apes. I bet they touch their own genitals too!

And what of the comments themselves? Mein Gott. "This will not wendell" dribbles forth from you morlochs like fat bubbling off a rotisserie pig. The "LOL"s rain down like sweat from the brow of a common neurosurgeon. I assure you, my yeoman internauts, that your comments do not make me Laugh Out Loud. Well, there was that preposterous one about Jews attending Dartmouth, but I dare say we all had a hearty guffaw at that one!

No, friends, there will be no apology from me. But you can consider all of your apologies in this thread to be graciously accepted by me. All that is left is for you to shower the Upper Classes with gratitude, and then we can get on with the pressing business of keeping Mohamet and his moslem hordes out of the White House.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:45 PM on August 7, 2008 [11 favorites]


Hi Mike. Thanks for the kind words. It's so nice of you to say I'm a "very beloved part of this community". I still feel very shy and awkward here.

Glad you came to MeTa and shared your thoughts.

Social acceptance is complex and the internet has changed social interactions in some profound ways. Added to the jockeying for position is the gender issue as well. Men and women, imo, have not been especially friendly to each other for thousands of years. We created families together but, unfortunately, sustained friendship doesn't seem to have had much to do with that. Hopefully, things will improve and maybe the internet will be part of that?

The freedom of the web to spew anonymous loathing and ridicule certainly seems to appeal to some. That shocked the daylights out of me when I first came on the web, especially in the philosophy chat rooms. omg the Lacan discussion groups had obscene spewage that made my eyes bulge. yikes. It can become a sort of mob lynching thing too. Really ugly but it seems to satisfy the needs of certain people.

For years I was afraid to post in MetaFilter, afraid of the boyzone aspect. Afraid of the anger, which I also loved for its courageous opinions and hilarity in the freedom of it. I was afraid to be despised as female, in my 50's, a former hippie, longwinded, somebody who likes to talk psychobabble. My greatest secret fear is that I would be hated because I'm fat. Forget MeFite meetups.

As a female MeFite it's profoundly comforting to think that male MeFites, whose opinions, thoughts, wonderfully outrageous senses of humor, scathing insights, impressive knowledge, witty repartee, awesome expertise and knowledge, playful arrogance and inspiring raw honesty that I deeply admire and feel great affection for, might not despise my company in MetaFilter because I'm female and want to play, be friends, have fun, talk, discuss, be valued.

As I said to you before, I like it when people express their irritation, negativity and intolerance of bullshit on MetaFilter. I may or may not agree with the opinion but I think it's okay to express negative feelings and imo it's one of the reasons MetaFilter is not just entertaining but smart.

Healthy balance is a hard thing to achieve. It's exciting to me that while still being delightfully mischievous and honest, MetaFilter has been evolving into a friendlier, warmer place.
posted by nickyskye at 12:46 PM on August 7, 2008 [13 favorites]


I'm no christian, but I think whatever the Bible says about praying should apply to apologizing, too. Do it privately.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:46 PM on August 7, 2008


Good on you, WCityMike. Come to DC and I will buy you your beverage of choice!
posted by onlyconnect at 12:47 PM on August 7, 2008


This is just to say

I dug up
the bones of William Carlos Williams
that were in
the boneyard

and which
you were probably
keeping there
out of reverence

Forgive me
I had a keen idea
for a macabe lounge chair
that had to be made real.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 12:53 PM on August 7, 2008 [9 favorites]


*oh god, why did I have to post my leaden comment after Pastabagel's hilariousness? I give up. MeTa is too stressful for me. I'm going over the blue.
posted by nickyskye at 12:55 PM on August 7, 2008


I'm sorry I posted a parody of This Is Just to Say.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:02 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


When did this place turn into a perpetual AA meeting?

Like others have said, just step away from the keyboard for a while if you feel the need. Stop treating us like your personal therapy session.

/wipes Haterade off of chin
posted by bardic at 1:03 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


E/N over there ->
posted by smackfu at 1:08 PM on August 7, 2008


Can I applaud the motivations behind this recent bender of apologizeration while still saying, "for fucks sake, why not just be all the mensch you can be in future threads, instead of constructing a spanktunnel of love and forgiveness on MetaTalk?"

I am serious here. I think it's great when someone realizes that they've behaved shabbily and tries to correct that behavior. But starting a thread where the majority of people are telling you how great you are? A ship is not tested in those waters.

Show don't tell.

and I do applaud the motivations, I have and will fuck up on the site again, and I have no beef whatsoever with with either of the recent supplicants. Just saying is all. Just saying.
posted by dirtdirt at 1:13 PM on August 7, 2008 [7 favorites]


When did this place turn into a perpetual AA meeting?

bardic, wondered at your snark and went to look at your blog. wow, great blog! I like you the better for your enjoyment of “Fourteen Passive-Aggressive Appetizers” and now imagine that you prefer dry humor, less emotional expression.

Expressing feelings can be clumsy or heavy. Doesn't mean it's not valuable.
posted by nickyskye at 1:17 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


ornate insect: "I'm hoping WCityMike understood that none of the snark here was meant to disparage him"

I'm taking about 98% of it with a light heart. There's a few unkind comments that are obviously meant seriously and those are a little stingy, but I think taking stuff like that too seriously was part of what geared me up into asshole mode before, so I'm just trying to ... hm, I can't come up with a verb choice here that doesn't sound horribly hackneyed (stay loose, chill, coast, etc.).

bardic: "When did this place turn into a perpetual AA meeting?"

Heh. In my mind, when I had that "what the hell am I doing?" moment, my brain called it a "moment of clarity," and then for a few moments I couldn't figure out where I had heard that term referenced before. So, slight internal funny there.
posted by WCityMike at 1:18 PM on August 7, 2008


MetaTalk: spanktunnel of love and forgiveness
posted by found missing at 1:21 PM on August 7, 2008


Metafilter: Wondered at your snark.

Btw, dirtdirt did a nicer (in both senses of the term) job of summarizing my feelings.

Two apology threads so close together is way too much of a good thing IMO.
posted by bardic at 1:23 PM on August 7, 2008


dirtdirt: "But starting a thread where the majority of people are telling you how great you are?"

Honestly, call me naive, but I didn't expect that result. Basically, I expected about three-fifths of it to be "yeah, you were a real fuckhead, I can't believe you...", one-fifth of it to be "yeah, fine, don't do it again" and one-fifth of it to be off-topic. Wasn't expecting the nicefest, not that I'm begrudging it — but I certainly don't deserve it.
posted by WCityMike at 1:23 PM on August 7, 2008


MeTaCulpa.
posted by hangashore at 1:23 PM on August 7, 2008 [4 favorites]


Well maybe you're taking this whole thing just a wee bit too seriously?

It is my understanding that the internet is serious business. I have examined many photoshops to develop this understanding.

Re-read my first post

I did, and acknowledged as much, and tried to make my argument in terms of my presumption in fact that you weren't trying to be a pisser at all, I promise. We're good.

posted by cortex (staff) at 1:26 PM on August 7, 2008


I believe I saw good intentions shining up at me (along with the anger) through even the most questionable of your posts, WCityMike.

Thank you for the graceful apology.
posted by jamjam at 1:26 PM on August 7, 2008


As difficult as some of the discussions in here have been of late, I'm always pleased to see members re-connecting about what they want the site to be. I don't participate much in the big threads where the sexism issues have been (and continue to be) thrashed out, but that doesn't mean I don't read them and reflect on my own posting here - this thread and the other apology thread at least let me know that I'm not alone in that.

Anyways, I appreciate you doing this WCityMike, even though I don't recall seeing what you are apologizing for. It takes a big person to admit when they think they've fallen short or screwed up.

Please consider this my vote for the creation of http://apologies.metafilter.com


I think we should just make August 7 the MeFi Day of Atonement, create one big thread, and everyone who feels they need to apologize for something can speak up.
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:26 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Self-criticism
posted by bardic at 1:29 PM on August 7, 2008


We're good.

So can we drop the somewhat stifling, sanctimonious air on this thread now that everyone's made up, and return to the usual smartass metafilter we're all familiar with? Just wondering.

posted by ornate insect at 1:29 PM on August 7, 2008


"When did this place turn into a perpetual AA meeting?"

MetaTalk has always been twelve steps off a ten step peer.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:30 PM on August 7, 2008 [3 favorites]


Dog carcass on the front page this morning, tire tread on burst stomach.

This site is afraid of me; I have seen its true face.

The threads are extended whinefests and the whinefests are full of snark and when the mods finally close them, all the vermin will drown.

The accumulated filth of all their goatse and doubleposts will foam up about their waists and all the self-linkers and SEOs will look up and shout 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'

They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like mathowie, or Al Gore. Decent men, who believed in a quiet favorite for a good comment. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late.

Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloody hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and smooth-talkers, and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.
posted by Ryvar at 1:32 PM on August 7, 2008 [3 favorites]


once in every greater while, it even happens twice

That's funny.

So can we drop the somewhat stifling, sanctimonious air on this thread now that everyone's made up, and return to the usual smartass metafilter we're all familiar with? Just wondering.

I don't know, but can we stop all the small text OI and Cortex? It's making me feeling squinty and old.
posted by Pax at 1:35 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Who doesn't tell a joke when someone makes a sincere apology? How else are they supposed to know they are off the hook? What do you do Cortex, give them a big gooey hug and get snot and tears all over their Polo sweater? Is that some west coast thing to do with chakras and medical marijuana and Tibetan Prayer Flags?

I will say if some of y'all don't like the apologies you can take it on down the line.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:36 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


spanktunnel of love and forgiveness

Twice now I have read that as "spunktunnel". The imagery was unpleasant.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:36 PM on August 7, 2008


I have this weird feeling that small text makes derails more palatable, but I admit it's mostly superstition.
posted by ornate insect at 1:37 PM on August 7, 2008


cortex, you can refresh a browser with F5.

F5, as it so happens, is also the key for starting a fire without a spark. go figure.
posted by shmegegge at 1:40 PM on August 7, 2008


Hey, is that whatsername from Friends?
posted by box at 1:49 PM on August 7, 2008


Just wondering.

No. We are contractually bound to at least three more navelgazing reciprocal exchanges in small text before we can close out the thread. It's a union thing.

posted by cortex (staff) at 1:51 PM on August 7, 2008


I have ganja and prayer flags right here! Get 'em while you can! Ganja! Prayer flags! Genu-wine West Coast Prayer Flags, right here.
posted by everichon at 1:53 PM on August 7, 2008


The accumulated filth of all their goatse and doubleposts will foam up about their waists and all the self-linkers and SEOs will look up and shout 'Save us!' And I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'

I read this comic book. It had a smiley face wearing a bike helmet on the cover, I think.

Is that some west coast thing to do with chakras and medical marijuana and Tibetan Prayer Flags?

GET OUT OF MY MIND
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:54 PM on August 7, 2008


sounds go to me. I'm all for ruining people's eyesight. only two more posts to go and we're done for the day...
posted by ornate insect at 1:54 PM on August 7, 2008


Hey, is that whatsername from Friends?

*busts into the Courtney Cox-as-fake-Boss-fan/Carlton Banks-as-real-Tom Jones-fan dance*
posted by Pax at 1:55 PM on August 7, 2008


I have been thinking about buying some new pants.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:56 PM on August 7, 2008


no one needs pants on the internet.
posted by ornate insect at 1:58 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


"My greatest secret fear is that I would be hated because I'm fat." posted by Nickskye.
As it turns out, there is more of you to admire, not hate.
And WCityMike's apology shows there is a lot of grown-up man to admire there.
posted by Cranberry at 2:01 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


cortex: "I have been thinking about buying some new pants."

They were the pants that Curly died in
they were the pants he could not hide in
And they had a button fly
and they poked me in the eye (whadjadothatfor?)
And it was my defeat
When I wore them on the street
'Cause I would go: wooo-wooo-wooo-wooo-wooo!
And I would go: I'm a victim of coicumstance!
And I would say: Hey Moe! Hey Larry! Free eats!
For my pants I've paid!
And my pants went: I keep tryina think but nothin' happens!
And my pants went: Ahra-hra-hra-hra
And my pants went: Hey Moe! I think I'm havin' a cardiac arrest-iac!
posted by WCityMike at 2:01 PM on August 7, 2008


Um, not that I don't snicker at the snark and enjoy the badinage.
posted by Cranberry at 2:02 PM on August 7, 2008


You are less likely to be punched in the dick if you wear pants on the internet
posted by never used baby shoes at 2:03 PM on August 7, 2008


I like the fact that people are making efforts to mend fences. We spend a lot of time here tearing apart, and making fun, so it's nice to see the warmer, fuzzier side on display for a change.

And I think it's great that people are really trying to change behaviors that they feel might be corrosive to the community.

That being said, if we are ever stranded in the mountains, I will kill and eat every one of you fuckers to survive.
posted by quin at 2:06 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


no one needs pants on the internet.

Oh, agreed. But I feel strangely compelled to purchase some anyway if only to celebrate the fact that, thanks to the internet, I can buy pants without having to have other pants on.

posted by cortex (staff) at 2:08 PM on August 7, 2008


I find the snark and attacking of motives here rather distasteful.

Thing is, when you've been a dick in a community of tens of thousands of people, it's not only prohibitive to contact individually each person you may have offended, it's also highly appropriate to make the apology in public; it's a recognition in kind: I have been a dick to all of you, and therefore I shall apologize to all of you.

Attacking someone who is making a no-holds-barred apology is pretty much the definition of what makes MeFi bad.

Good job, WCM. Kudos.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:10 PM on August 7, 2008 [3 favorites]


Ctrl+Scroll/Open-Apple+Scroll makes small text your friend!

And fuck anyone who says that they key in question on a Mac is "Apple" or "Command" or "Flower". It's OPEN APPLE. It doesn't matter that there aren't any apples on the keyboard anymore, or that there hasn't been a closed apple for about 20 years, or even that it says the word "Command" next to the flower icon on the new keyboard. It's wrong, and so are you.

Open Apple.


And I too, now, am sorry.
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:11 PM on August 7, 2008


Unicorn on the cob writes "Yeah but where is the thread damanding that Quonsar and JonMC have a drinking battle a la Raiders of the Lost Ark inside the Thunderdome?

"Apologies are great but do not make for entertaining daydreaming at my cubicle, you guys."


If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
posted by mullingitover at 2:11 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Now that this lovefest appears to be winding down, I look forward to going back tomorrow to the usual acrimony and bile.
posted by ornate insect at 2:11 PM on August 7, 2008


And fuck anyone who says that they key in question on a Mac is "Apple" or "Command" or "Flower".

I like to call it the Woodbridge, though there are some bitter anti-Delanoites who insist on calling it the "Hale".

Hale no, I say.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:23 PM on August 7, 2008


acrimony and bile

Am I alone in thinking this would be a great band name for a couple of former death metal guys who want to start a folk/ bluegrass duet?



Fine! I'm all alone then.
posted by quin at 2:23 PM on August 7, 2008


Attacking someone who is making a no-holds-barred apology

If any "attacking" of wcm occurred on this thread, I missed it--and if it did occur, it was certainly not the norm. Much of the "snark" I saw here was notably gentle ribbing, and most of it was not even directed at the poster per se--instead, it was directed at the strange coincidence of having two atypically warm-and-fuzzy apology threads. It was a lighthearted commentary on the aura of the threads, and not on the content or sincerity therein. An apology is not a funeral after all, and a little lighthearted humor is quite often used in everyday life to acknowledge and tacitly accept an apology.
posted by ornate insect at 2:27 PM on August 7, 2008


Open-Apple+A
Woodbridge+C
Open this thread
Tab ~250 Times
Hale+V
Click "Post"

I would be an awesome customer service rep.
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:29 PM on August 7, 2008


I was thinking maybe Dockers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:31 PM on August 7, 2008


Maybe deserving of its own MeTa: Why Digg and Reddit are Doomed but Metafilter Isn't. Currently #17 on Reddit.
posted by WCityMike at 2:33 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


(Although I'll save you going to the link: it's the $5 membership fee.)
posted by WCityMike at 2:35 PM on August 7, 2008


Are Dockers only khakis, or do they make jeans?
posted by ornate insect at 2:36 PM on August 7, 2008


I'm sorry for never marking one of my own comments as a favorite before now.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:41 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


so basically because metafilter is another censored site that allows neocon propaganda to reign supreme, it will succeed and be embraced by the msm?

Fuck. Reddit's commenters have us pegged.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:45 PM on August 7, 2008


I thought the problem with reddit was slightly irritating arrogant hipsters, pseudo-intellectual college dropouts and over-zealous obama/ron paul supporters, not 15-year-old spammers. How would a fee prevent these kinds of people?

Fuck. Reddit's commenters have us pegged.
posted by WCityMike at 2:49 PM on August 7, 2008


(j/k)
posted by WCityMike at 2:50 PM on August 7, 2008


I didn't know you could do that, ebk.
posted by yhbc at 2:50 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Fuck you, Mike—when I see you, I'm gonna shake your hand and buy you a beer.
posted by klangklangston at 2:54 PM on August 7, 2008


I just went to MetaFilter and the top link is "How many goats are you worth?". Is that more intellectual than the entries on Reddit?

Fuck. Reddit's commenters have us pegged.
posted by never used baby shoes at 2:57 PM on August 7, 2008


so basically because metafilter is another censored site that allows neocon propaganda to reign supreme...

Fuck, they're on to me.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:59 PM on August 7, 2008


The blog seems to be having some trouble; here's a google cache if it's unresponsive for anyone else.

However, I think I've only posted to MeFi like twice, due to these rules making me feel like an idiot. Submitting a link is akin to writing a little paper for school. You have to make a point.

While I don't want anybody to feel like an idiot in the ideal case, that still kind of makes me happy as a perception thing right there.

Metafilter: you have to make a point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:03 PM on August 7, 2008


One of his points about metafilter is that paying a fee cuts back on the spammers and trolls, and also increases the quality of the articles submitted. So, I went to check it out. First link:

How many goats are you worth?

It's just a another of a million stupid quizzes that has ridiculous, unresponsive choices for answers. If that's any indication of the "quality" that comes with a fee, then screw paying because it apparently doesn't work.


Simultaneously a vindication of folks here who have come out vocally against low-brow links and an indictment of a new reader's grasp of small-sample effects. Neat.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:10 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Attacking someone who is making a no-holds-barred apology is pretty much the definition of what makes MeFi bad.

dnab, there's a big difference between questioning and attacking, and I sometimes wonder if you understand that.

The fact that we can have this conversation - and that's what it is, after all - and no one's flaming out right now is part of what makes MetaFilter cool.
posted by katillathehun at 3:10 PM on August 7, 2008


As one who has never been offended by WCityMike, I would appreciate being offended so I can partake of the apology. Here are some starting points:
Favorite Band: The Apartments
Favorite Pizza: Chicago style
Favorite Pre-Socratic philosopher: Heraclitus
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 3:18 PM on August 7, 2008


more like Chicago lack-of-style amirite
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:21 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Thank you, sir, may I have another?
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 3:23 PM on August 7, 2008


One never steps in the same apartment eating the same chicago-style pizza twice, and one never hears one's favorite band precisely the same way twice.
posted by ornate insect at 3:24 PM on August 7, 2008


Heracletus the slackjawed yokel?
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:24 PM on August 7, 2008


dnab, there's a big difference between questioning and attacking, and I sometimes wonder if you understand that.

Don't wonder; I am fully aware of the difference.

"Can we just start having "look at me look at me" threads? They feel more...sincere, somehow."

Looks like an attack, not a question. Even if it's not, it's a very fucking rude thing to say when someone is making an honest apology.

Plus comments like "but all the threads for this are getting as tired as the "can't we all be nice?" threads. They're even starting to look more like a ploy for attention than a genuine apology." and "grandstanding" etc etc.

Shitting on an apology says a lot about the shitters, and says a lot about the site that so many people are enthusiastically doing so.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:26 PM on August 7, 2008


OK. You've gone too far. I demand an apology, five dollars back, and 312 favorites added to my account.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 3:28 PM on August 7, 2008


How about a non-denial denial, a coupon for orange juice, and a couple of fantastic flags?
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:30 PM on August 7, 2008


That's not shitting on an apology: shitting on an apology is "WCityMike you are a jerk and a troll and a scumbag and I will never forgive you for what you wrote, blah blah blah..." Which I saw no evidence of. The examples you cite might carry a little sting with them, but to call them "attacks" seems like a distortion to me.
posted by ornate insect at 3:33 PM on August 7, 2008


"Favorite Pizza: Chicago style"

Thin or thick? Because if it's thin, you're pretty much right. The deep dish pizza is always less good than it should be (usually because it's undercooked). After Chicago thin, NY style (to be eaten by folding it in half) is unquestionably the second best, and third best is surprisingly the curry pizzas of Vancouver.

"Favorite Pre-Socratic philosopher: Heraclitus"

Haha. Dude, you like fragments. Besides, Democritus is way better and Thrasymachus is more fun (even if he's a bit of a dick).
posted by klangklangston at 3:33 PM on August 7, 2008


Thin, but stuffed, like my philosophy.

Apologies to myself.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 3:39 PM on August 7, 2008


Parmenides pwns all of your sorry asses.

Actually, he "ones" them AMIRITE???
posted by bardic at 3:40 PM on August 7, 2008


Which I saw no evidence of. The examples you cite might carry a little sting with them, but to call them "attacks" seems like a distortion to me.

Whatever. Shitting on an apology is still boorish.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:42 PM on August 7, 2008


My two favorite ancient Greeks are Hepatitis and Diabetes. (stolen from Woody Allen)
posted by ornate insect at 3:43 PM on August 7, 2008


Looks like an attack, not a question. Even if it's not, it's a very fucking rude thing to say when someone is making an honest apology.

The crux of it, of course, is whether the apology is in fact honest, or -- more to the point -- whether, even if it is honest, the public apology is not first and foremost (as katilla wondered) an act of pure grandstanding. In other words, I don't think any of us is obligated to read the apology as sincere or born strictly of pure motives, and I didn't, and kinda don't, and said so because the apology was placed before me in a public forum, so why shouldn't I say what I think of it? If I wasn't supposed to say anything unless I had something nice to say, then perhaps I should not have been given the opportunity to address the apology. Personal email to the offended parties, rather than this mass mea culpa, would certainly have kept it away from my eyes, and I would suggest that it would have been a far more appropriate medium as well.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:44 PM on August 7, 2008


dirtynumbangelboy--I believe wcm upthread tells of how he has been struck by how much warmth he's been greeted by in this thread. Why then are you offended when he is not? The overall tone of both apology threads has been generous, not cruel. Compared to most meta threads, it's been hugs and kisses the whole way 'round.
posted by ornate insect at 3:47 PM on August 7, 2008


"Can we just start having "look at me look at me" threads? They feel more...sincere, somehow."

Looks like an attack, not a question. Even if it's not, it's a very fucking rude thing to say when someone is making an honest apology.


Being critical is not the same as being rude or, even, fucking rude.
posted by doctor_negative at 3:49 PM on August 7, 2008


Metafilter: building up credit for your inevitable apology thread
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:52 PM on August 7, 2008 [3 favorites]


metafilter: thin-skinned, quick to draw offense, able to argue over absolutely anything
posted by ornate insect at 3:54 PM on August 7, 2008


OKay, whatever. Clearly I am a total fucking douchebag for thinking that when someone makes an apology, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. Of course that is wrong. yeah. What a fucking stupid fuck I am.

Fuck all y'all.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:54 PM on August 7, 2008


Here we go again.
posted by katillathehun at 3:56 PM on August 7, 2008 [4 favorites]


In other words, I don't think any of us is obligated to read the apology as sincere or born strictly of pure motives, and I didn't, and kinda don't, and said so because the apology was placed before me in a public forum, so why shouldn't I say what I think of it?

There's a shouldn't vs. can't argument to be had, here, I suppose—Metatalk in general is more can then can't, and obviously folks have been free to say (and to argue with) both positive and negative statements here.

Personally, I'm more on board emotionally with dnab's take on this than with the counter-argument: unlike some of the easy-to-misread-but-lighthearted-in-intent stuff from See Above Small Text, starkly calling someone's honesty into question isn't a case of fumbled tone, and you're clearly defending your right to do said stark calling out.

For my part, I disagree pretty strongly with your assessment. But we can disagree, that's fine. But you cannot both call someone essentially a liar and an attention whore and hold yourself free from the notion that you're advancing an attack on that person. If you feel that way, state it and more power to you, but yeah, it comes off as pretty rude.

Can you declare a public apology apparently earnest to be a fraud? Yes. Should you? Not without a pretty damned good reason, in my opinion, so, yeah, it seems fairly rude.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:57 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Yes. Give into the the HATE.
posted by eyeballkid at 3:57 PM on August 7, 2008


in to

Unless you want to put it into the HATE, I guess.
posted by eyeballkid at 3:58 PM on August 7, 2008


Clearly I am a total fucking douchebag for thinking that when someone makes an apology a joke on an apology thread that's not even directed at the person apologizing, they should be given the benefit of the doubt.
posted by ornate insect at 3:58 PM on August 7, 2008


Well, on preview, I'm not with him on the "fuck all y'all" thing, but the basic sentiment that it's a kind of lousy way to approach the thread, yes.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:59 PM on August 7, 2008


Thanks for that dnab. You always bring the crazy.
posted by bardic at 3:59 PM on August 7, 2008


metafilter: I'm not with him on the "fuck all y'all" thing
posted by ornate insect at 4:02 PM on August 7, 2008


It's exciting to me that while still being delightfully mischievous and honest, MetaFilter has been evolving into a friendlier, warmer place.

Nickyskye said it very well.

HERE COMES A LONGBOAT FULL OF HUGZ.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 4:09 PM on August 7, 2008


I'm reading very little into what Mike said...I think, actually, that you guys are missing what Mike said, so let me repeat the part that made me do a wha-aaaa-aaaa-aaat:

I'd like to differ it somewhat from Afroblanco in that I wish to apologize for the way — the extremely poor way — in which I've communicated with others in Metatalk and in Metafilter (as opposed to the content of that communication, if I'm parsing Afroblanco's apology correctly).

Which I basically read as, "I was pretty much right, but wow, I guess I kinda was a douche about it." This, to me, is a pretty lame species of apology, a bit of "I guess I was a little too rough there, chief," which is not only essentially self-aggrandizing (minor point) but also misses the mark in the sense that the substance of what was said was actually the bigger problem, and that is not what he is apologizing for. I would likely have never read Mike's impossibly assholish comment had he not called attention to it here -- I'm glad nicky is well, but we don't really know each other at all, so popping in there to say so would have seemed strange to me -- but now that I have, I see (and saw, when I wrote my first comment here) that the problem wasn't a matter of tone, it was a matter of content. Hence, while perhaps "insincere" is too strong, I am quite comfortable with the term "halfassed," and would put forward the notion that Mike doesn't really understand what he did there at all, but knows it bummed some folks out. At any rate. Let's try swapping "insincere" for the more exact "incomplete" and "inept" and I think we've pretty much got it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:09 PM on August 7, 2008


Unless you want to put it into the HATE, I guess.

What if I want to PUT MY HATE INSIDE OF YOU??? What about that, sinner? GRAAAHHH!

dude, meth and Red Bull rocks!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:11 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: impossibly assholish
posted by bardic at 4:12 PM on August 7, 2008


First off, as someone said earlier in this thread, an apology is as much for the person who has done the wrong as for the wronged. Although behaving more considerately in the future is much more valuable to a community than a public apology, I think sincere public apologies are a good thing (and not grandstanding) because:

1) If one is the offender, it's good to acknowledge to those hurt that you do know you hurt them, and that you're sorry. (If you're NOT sorry, it tends to show in the apology in the form of defensive rationalizing or lack of awareness of the nature of your transgression).

2) The apology helps the offender reintegrate into the community through forgiveness. This is vitally important -- if there is a difference between Metafilter and Digg/Reddit is this sense of community, not the $5 fee.

3) If you were the one hurt, and you're the type to hold grudges, you may not even notice a change in behavior because you're too busy finding other reasons to hold that grudge. This is a common enough communication problem that it's taught in communication classes. The apology helps the one hurt to let go of grudges as well.

One more thing -- I'm favoriting your comment, Nickyskye, because it so reflects my own experiences and fears as a female in Metaspace -- especially the fear that people wouldn't like me because I'm fat (and in my case, 40ish rather than 50ish, but ...) Glad I'm not the only one!
posted by lleachie at 4:13 PM on August 7, 2008 [2 favorites]


posted by dirtynumbangelboy Whatever. Shitting on an apology is still boorish.

And yet, here you are, shitting.
posted by optovox at 4:14 PM on August 7, 2008


HERE COMES A LONGBOAT FULL OF HUGZ.

And there goes a longboat full of dead Vikings ... sigh ... somebody hit it with a flaming arrow...

thanks, I'll be here all week
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2008



Thanks for that dnab. You always bring the crazy.


Fuck you. It's not about crazy, it's about what happens here all the time: I advocate a thought-out and respectfully phrased position, and people pile on. It really actually doesn't matter what I say or how I say it--assholes here will, inevitably, belittle me for it. Clearly it's untenable that shitting on someone's presumably earnest apology could be considered a bad thing. And I see nobody is piling on cortex.

So yeah, fuck you.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


posted by dirtynumbangelboy Whatever. Shitting on an apology is still boorish.

And yet, here you are, shitting.


He's definitely a boy. Definitely numb. Definitely dirty. He's no angel, though.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2008


And yet, here you are, shitting.

Oh look! Another fucking asshole. I was commenting on the shitters. But in MeFiWorld, that somehow means I'm the bad guy. Gee.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:16 PM on August 7, 2008


I have this strange feeling of deja vu. All over again.
posted by bardic at 4:19 PM on August 7, 2008


I have this strange feeling of you're a complete douchebag.

Seriously. I said that I found the snark and attacking of motives distasteful. Is there snark here? Yes. Have multiple people attacked WCM's motives? Yes.

But I'm the badguy wooo.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:20 PM on August 7, 2008


"And I see nobody is piling on cortex."

Dude, he smells like cat pee. Of course no one is piling on him.
posted by klangklangston at 4:21 PM on August 7, 2008


But whatever, it's been made abundantly clear to me that no matter how I phrase it or what it is, I am simply not permitted to have an opinion here without people piling on. So, again, please enjoy this message about sex and travel.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:21 PM on August 7, 2008


dirtynumbangelboy, the language and sarcasm you're using seem unlikely to make your point felt.

This whole moment is crazy ironic, since WCityMike is apologizing for, among other misbehavior, crapping on somebody's feelgood MeTa and bringing old baggage into it.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:21 PM on August 7, 2008


Fuck you. It's not about crazy, it's about what happens here all the time: I advocate a thought-out and respectfully phrased position

Yeah, well, that's kind of a matter of opinion, which is kind of the point of discussion: That it's not your personal echo chamber. I mean, look, I think more people here agree with you than me, which is fine, but the reason it's improbably causing more problems for you to be on what is ostensibly the right side of this argument than it is for me to be on what is evidently not the right side is that you're acting like it's completely unreasonable not to agree with you and that anyone who finds fault with your arguments is attacking you personally. It's, you know, like a persecution complex or something you've got going on there, man. It's just really fuckin' weird, and I don't think it has much to do with anyone here, okay?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:21 PM on August 7, 2008 [5 favorites]


Can we get a field in the profile, or maybe a cookie?

[X] offered apology (7Aug08)
posted by netbros at 4:22 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


metafilter: histrionic mountain-out-of-a-molehill meltdowns
posted by ornate insect at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2008


posted by dirtynumbangelboy Oh look! Another fucking asshole. I was commenting on the shitters.

So, you're talking about shitters, and you're calling people assholes.
posted by optovox at 4:25 PM on August 7, 2008


cortex someone took my crayons.
posted by ornate insect at 4:27 PM on August 7, 2008


It...it was me.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:30 PM on August 7, 2008


This whole thread is like performing Beckett in a psych-ward.
posted by ornate insect at 4:32 PM on August 7, 2008 [8 favorites]


Is this a sudden outbreak of performance art?
posted by ook at 4:38 PM on August 7, 2008


Jeezis, WCityMike, look what you started! Maybe next time you'll THINK before you apologize!

The above comment is a JOKE, I, I say a JOKE, son. Joke-challenged or joke-impaired readers, please do not respond.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:39 PM on August 7, 2008 [2 favorites]


* discreetly nibbles on ornate insect's Burnt Sienna crayon *
posted by everichon at 4:39 PM on August 7, 2008


This whole thread is like performing Beckett in a psych-ward.

Dude. Let us not waste our time in idle discourse.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:54 PM on August 7, 2008


NELL: One mustn’t laugh at those things, Nagg. Why must you always laugh at them?
NAGG: Not so loud!
NELL (without lowering her voice): Nothing is funnier than unhappiness, I grant you that. But–
NAGG (shocked): Oh!
NELL: Yes, yes, it’s the most comic thing in the world. And we laugh, we laugh, with a will, in the beginning. But it’s always the same thing. Yes, it’s like the funny story we have heard too often, we still find it funny, but we don’t laugh any more.
–Endgame
posted by ornate insect at 5:01 PM on August 7, 2008


Look. You cant fight in here. This is the War Room!

What a place. A dude offers a sincere apology over being too insulting and people start insulting each other over it.


No cookie for you.
posted by tkchrist at 5:07 PM on August 7, 2008


Wow. Thread go big boom while Mike on subway.

Sometimes my writing style overqualifies things or leaves a thought half-written or half-described, and in doing so, creates implications I don't mean to make. I'm not sure if that happened here with k4b and the conflict is due to a misunderstanding, or whether we understand each other perfectly but disagree.

To restate: In several instances, I've said my opinion in a debate in a very assinine way: insulting, mocking, treating someone with a different opinion offensively. I regret how I behaved in these instances. I have not as yet changed my opinion on some of the issues that were discussed rationally, though: I got a lot more sensible and rational later in the misogyny thread, for example, and I don't recant those opinions or feel poorly of them. However, that qualification shouldn't in any way apply to Nicky's MeTa thread which I shit on. That wasn't an opinion, that was indeed being an utter douche.

A comparison would be in the world of politics: how noble candidates behave makes a huge, huge difference in my opinion of them, even if I utterly disagree with their platform. I can really respect a Republican, even if I think their platform is way out of whack, if (s)he stays away from the ad hominem politics and runs a clean campaign on the issues. Agree with their ideas? No. Think well of their behavior? Yes. In this metaphor, I was a mudslinging politician who ran a dirty campaign. I'm apologizing not for my "platform" but for the way I ran the campaign. Except that my appearance in Nicky's thread wasn't part of that "platform", it was just bad behavior. But do I suddenly feel different about the actual _rational_ statements I made in the misogyny thread? No. The "wabbit season duck season" shit? Yeah, that was fairly dumbfuck.

No deception intended, and if this makes anyone feel like I've deceived them, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding; it honestly was unintentional. I tried to be clear about it, but maybe it wasn't clear enough.

As for your unkindness, k4b, honestly, I don't know what to say about it. You use very personal ad hominem attack adjectives, and there's really not much to latch onto with regards to working out any legitimate differences of ideas or beliefs between us.

To be honest about my emotions at the moment, what really gets me is questioning the intent of my apology: my honesty, and calling this "grandstanding." Honesty's a real important value to me, so I must admit I don't care for my honesty being questioned, not at all.

But, hell, what's to do about it? Just in my personal book of values, questioning my honesty's a good way to get high up on my shitlist, but, really, it's not like I can do anything to stop you from calling me whatever you want. I just disagree, and I'll have to be content with me knowing you're wrong.

Plus, you've obviously got, internally, something that led you to the position you're working from. I'm not sure if that something is based in past behavior or positions of mine, or if any of it's rooted in emotional context like a bad day on your part, but I doubt you got up this morning and said, "You know what? My intent is to insult WCityMike today." You're reacting to me and you've got your reasoning for that reaction, and unless you're interested in a free and open exchange of ideas -- which you don't appear to be -- there's not much I can do to work with you on this one.

dirtynumbangelboy, listen, man, I really appreciate you coming to my defense — just don't flameout at everyone. People value your opinion, it's just ... well, man, you're doing the same thing I'm here apologizing for, really -- letting anger blow through the channel your comments and torch the place. :)
posted by WCityMike at 5:09 PM on August 7, 2008


At work today, we got a book in that claims to be about "Bolshevik Propoganda and the German Brewing Industry." According to the sticker on the back it was distributed by the National States Rights Party. Wierd. We got it as part of a huge lot which had loads of other obscure books about beer and whiskey in it. Just unloading it made me feel a little drunk. Did I buy it. Sure I did.
posted by jonmc at 5:15 PM on August 7, 2008


> metafilter: I'm not with him on the "fuck all y'all" thing

For the data-sifters, I would love to see a wiki page or what have you that just collects all of those "metafilter: phrase" to date. It'd probably end up being rather funny non sequiturs with all the stuff taken out of context.
posted by WCityMike at 5:18 PM on August 7, 2008


Aspergers Sufferers Tip #73

It's customary to simply respond to an apology with something akin to:

"Hey. Thanks. No worries."

Then, if in person, smile and shake hands or offer an other brief but appropriate tactile positive affirmation. This lets The Normal know bygones are indeed bygones.
posted by tkchrist at 5:18 PM on August 7, 2008


This lets The Normal know

There are no Normal here. We killed them long ago.
posted by ornate insect at 5:20 PM on August 7, 2008 [2 favorites]


But whatever, it's been made abundantly clear to me that no matter how I phrase it or what it is, I am simply not permitted to have an opinion here without people piling on.

Dust off yo' shoulders... You have to learn to ignore crap like that.
posted by empath at 5:20 PM on August 7, 2008


Fuck you. It's not about crazy, it's about what happens here all the time: I advocate a thought-out and respectfully phrased position

and then completely lose the plot and start foaming at the mouth as soon as somebody dares not to applaud.

Happens a lot.

It's getting pretty old.
posted by flabdablet at 5:23 PM on August 7, 2008


I would love to see a wiki page or what have you that just collects all of those "metafilter: phrase" to date.

There is a wiki page for that, actually, though it was compiled by hand and is pretty old.

A while back I ran a much more complete auto-generated list, for Metafilter: as well as Metatalk:. It's not current, but it's close: the blue and the grey.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:24 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


I get dirtynumbangelboy and blazecock pileon confused all the time.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:30 PM on August 7, 2008


I don't understand why his bagel is dirty and numb
posted by found missing at 5:36 PM on August 7, 2008


> It's not current, but it's close: the blue and the grey.

Very cool. Thanks, cortex.
posted by WCityMike at 5:37 PM on August 7, 2008


Mike -- Whatever personal code of honor leads you to take questions of your honesty to heart isn't really germane to this, as I don't know you well enough to have any real handle on whether you go through life generally an honest guy; and, to be honest myself, until and unless I am in a position to lend you money and/or leave you alone in a room with my sister, it's really not a huge concern of mine. What I can say is that the motivations behind you posting this thread -- again, rather than simply contacting the offended parties via memail -- strike me as inherently dishonest, as I think the apology (such as it was) was more about letting the world know what an awesome guy you are than actually making any sort of real amends for past behavior, the real problems with which I get the impression you still don't understand in any meaningful way. However, by virtue of the fact that you have elected not to be all douchey in your response to me, I can say that for my part it seems that your decision to reform your behavior is one you plan to stick to, and that's cool. You could easily have turned this into a fight, and didn't. So okay.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:39 PM on August 7, 2008


metafilter: can I leave you alone in a room with my sister?
posted by ornate insect at 5:44 PM on August 7, 2008


So okay.

Them's fightin' words.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 5:46 PM on August 7, 2008


*hugs teh metafilter*
posted by IndigoRain at 5:46 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


it's really not a huge concern of mine.

He says before before writing a really long sentence about his concerns.
posted by jonmc at 5:46 PM on August 7, 2008


kittens for breakfast: However, that qualification shouldn't in any way apply to Nicky's MeTa thread which I shit on. That wasn't an opinion, that was indeed being an utter douche. Mike seems to have addressed your criticisms as stated, i.e. that the problem wasn't a matter of tone, it was a matter of content.

So I think you're actually agreeing with each other at this point.
posted by Skorgu at 5:48 PM on August 7, 2008


Someone needs to go get more beer. Is anyone going to go on a beer run?
posted by ornate insect at 5:49 PM on August 7, 2008


k4b, it appears, if I'm parsing you correctly, that the planks of your position are: (i) I apologized not to actually apologize but to somehow promote myself as an awesome guy; (ii) I have no regret for my past behavior; and (iii) I do not understand what was wrong about my past behavior.

If these are issues you want to try to hash out, it admittedly wouldn't exactly be the most fun way to spend time, but please then speak as to these items. Tell me what past or present behavior of mine leads you to these conclusions.

If this is a perception of the situation, in the sense that you simply believe these to be true, but they are not the product of a reasoning process but something more intuitive -- or if these are opinions you simply wanted to say aloud, to communicate to me and to others -- then that task has been accomplished and this can hopefully be put to the side.
posted by WCityMike at 5:50 PM on August 7, 2008




So I think you're actually agreeing with each other at this point.

Ayuh.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:51 PM on August 7, 2008


metafilter: this can hopefully be put to the side
posted by ornate insect at 5:52 PM on August 7, 2008


Yeah, Mike, I kinda feel like enough people have already told you all about you here, and we can safely move on from the subject of you.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:53 PM on August 7, 2008


Too early for flapjacks?
posted by katillathehun at 5:56 PM on August 7, 2008


Too early for flapjacks?

Never.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:57 PM on August 7, 2008


Metafilter: we can safely move on from the subject of you
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:57 PM on August 7, 2008


> Yeah, Mike, I kinda feel like enough people have already told you all about you here, and we can safely move on from the subject of you.

We previously established you're working from a framework of reasoning where I did this to glamorize myself. Can't we both simply passively accept our views of the situation are at odds, or does your perception of the situation require you to make barbs such as this? I can't do anything to prove to you that what you believe of me isn't the case, and, honestly, I don't feel the need to do so. But as you yourself said, the things you are saying could provoke fights. I'm not going to fight with you, but that doesn't mean that I enjoy receiving your aggression.
posted by WCityMike at 6:00 PM on August 7, 2008


I'm thinking around 1000 comments this thread will finally hit its stride; imagine this thread is Der Ring des Nibelungen, and we've not yet gotten to Siegfried.
posted by ornate insect at 6:00 PM on August 7, 2008


My wife is watching I Dream Of Jeannie in the next room. There's been lods of speculation from learned men in some of our nation's finest saloons and locker rooms that Major Nelson must have been gay since he didn't make Jeannie do all kinds of kinky stuff. But that theory dosen't hold water, since he could've simply had Jeannie turn herself into a man. Which would have made the show I Dream Of Gene. Now that I think of it, I'm kind of amazed nobody's done gay porn under that title.
posted by jonmc at 6:04 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


metafilter: I'm kind of amazed nobody's done gay porn under that title.
posted by ornate insect at 6:06 PM on August 7, 2008 [1 favorite]


Oh, brother. I'm not sure how you go from shock jock to Caine from "Kung Fu" overnight, but whatever. I'm not gonna sit here and try to out-passive-aggressive you, so if you actually want to get in an argument with me over this, drop me a mail. This is just goofy.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:09 PM on August 7, 2008


metafilter: bruised egos and high drama.
posted by ornate insect at 6:11 PM on August 7, 2008


My wife is watching I Dream Of Jeannie in the next room. There's been lods of speculation from learned men in some of our nation's finest saloons and locker rooms that Major Nelson must have been gay since he didn't make Jeannie do all kinds of kinky stuff.

I dunno, jon. "Master this, master that" is about as kinky as they could really get in the '60s, and by implication, it's really pretty kinky.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:12 PM on August 7, 2008


I'm not sure how you go from shock jock to Caine from "Kung Fu" overnight, ... drop me a mail.

he would, but he's too busy roaming the earth.
posted by jonmc at 6:12 PM on August 7, 2008


> Oh, brother. I'm not sure how you go from shock jock to Caine from "Kung Fu" overnight, but whatever. I'm not gonna sit here and try to out-passive-aggressive you, so if you actually want to get in an argument with me over this, drop me a mail. This is just goofy.

I don't desire an argument; I've been responding to your stimuli. So I'll make the same offer, but I'm not initiating anything; as I said earlier, it's not exactly the most fun way to spend an evening. Anyway, pax.
posted by WCityMike at 6:12 PM on August 7, 2008


I would like to apologize for being late to this thread. I got hung up at work and, while I know work is not the most important thing, I just didn't anticipate another Big Apology so soon after the last one. I'm not a mind reader, you know. Had I known this was going to happen I'd have been here on time and I'd also have baked a cake. That said, I accept the apology. And I accept in advance the apologies surely coming in the near future. In fact, I extend blanket forgiveness to all of you, with a few exceptions which we do not need to get into right this minute.
posted by idest at 6:13 PM on August 7, 2008


metafilter: responding to your stimuli
posted by ornate insect at 6:15 PM on August 7, 2008


I dunno, jon. "Master this, master that" is about as kinky as they could really get in the '60s, and by implication, it's really pretty kinky.

Remember the animated show they did later? with Jeannie's sidekick, Babu? he was by far the gayest cartoon character ever. That mother swished like a slalom skiier. Oddly he was voiced by Joe from the Three Stooges.
posted by jonmc at 6:17 PM on August 7, 2008


Metafilter: It's not current, but it's close. I'm really, really sorry.
posted by lukemeister at 6:26 PM on August 7, 2008


posted by kittens for breakfast I dunno, jon. "Master this, master that" is about as kinky as they could really get in the '60s, and by implication, it's really pretty kinky.

I always thought I Dream of Jeannie was about male doms and female subs with magical powers, whereas Bewitched was about male subs and female doms with magical powers. Even the theme songs are the same!
posted by optovox at 6:28 PM on August 7, 2008


Bewitched was about male subs and female doms with magical powers. Even the theme songs are the same!

"First you had Dick York, then you had Dick Sargent. You don't switch Dicks midstream!" - Taylor Negron.
posted by jonmc at 6:31 PM on August 7, 2008


Dick York was the better Derwood.
posted by flabdablet at 6:48 PM on August 7, 2008


And another pitchfork bites the dust.
posted by qvantamon at 6:52 PM on August 7, 2008


This thread had such promise. It coulda been a contender.
posted by fixedgear at 7:09 PM on August 7, 2008


Yeah, Mike, I kinda feel like enough people have already told you all about you here, and we can safely move on from the subject of you.

I heartily agree. It would seem the next apology on the agenda is mine, so let's talk about me now.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:21 PM on August 7, 2008


Well Meatbomb, we know you like to kill and eat things, and you have your very own apology video. You're way ahead of these amateurs.
posted by netbros at 7:45 PM on August 7, 2008


MetaFilter: all the stuff taken out of context
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:12 PM on August 7, 2008


The score so far
Afroblanco apology - 125 comments
WCityMike apology - 240 comments

Its obvious WCityMike has won.
posted by Sailormom at 8:42 PM on August 7, 2008


Ugh, does this thread suddenly need an enema? I was enjoying teh nice.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:46 PM on August 7, 2008


Metafilter: the most fun way to spend time
posted by turgid dahlia at 9:02 PM on August 7, 2008


Its obvious WCityMike has won.

Define "won."

Afroblanco thread:
-- Posts by dirtynumbangelboy = 1
-- Posts by plexi = 3

WCityMike thread:
-- Posts by dirtynumbangelboy = 8
-- Posts by plexi = 0

I need a math geek to figure this out. Where's Charlie Eppes when you need him?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:10 PM on August 7, 2008


Metafilter: When someone writes a bunch of code to crawl for all these cute little injokes, this is going to come back as a false positive.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:45 PM on August 7, 2008


I get dirtynumbangelboy and blazecock pileon confused all the time.

That's odd, Meatbomb, I get you confused with Krrrlson and dios all the time. Must be your comment history.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:17 PM on August 7, 2008


Yeah, I get those 3 completely different people confused all the time.
posted by puke & cry at 10:40 PM on August 7, 2008


When did this place turn into a perpetual AA meeting?

Indeed; there's only so much of me to go around, you parasites!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:53 PM on August 7, 2008


Meatbomb, I get you confused with Krrrlson and dios all the time.

An easy way to tell the difference: Two are often funny and not attention whores.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:57 PM on August 7, 2008


An easy way to tell the difference: Two are often funny and not attention whores.

At the same time, you mean.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:59 PM on August 7, 2008


And I see nobody is piling on cortex.

Dip'em in a little BBQ sauce and I'm SO there.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:51 AM on August 8, 2008 [1 favorite]


Blazecock, I would like to sincerely apologize for confusing you with DNAB. Look at me! Look at me!
posted by Meatbomb at 4:22 AM on August 8, 2008


Don't know if anyone's still reading this particular post and would want to pass it along in their own MeTa post, but Baby_Balrog's had a interesting, and presumably scary, few days: first entry, YouTubery, second entry, news coverage (IMEMC), news coverage (Ma'an), news coverage (UN Observer), third entry.
posted by WCityMike at 9:13 AM on August 8, 2008


Wow. I couldn't think of a better way to put all of this in perspective than those links about Baby_Balrog's situation.
posted by umbú at 11:17 AM on August 8, 2008


Yeah, thanks, WCityMike.
posted by Ryvar at 11:20 AM on August 8, 2008


I appreciate the kindness intended behind that sentiment, guys, although Baby_Balrog having those travails doesn't make what I did any less shitty. Actually, the reason I posted it was I was hoping someone might plop the story onto MeTa so it wouldn't be buried in this thread; I can't since there's a seven-day wait between MeTa posts.
posted by WCityMike at 11:58 AM on August 8, 2008


Don't apologize. It shatters my conception of everyone here as a really smart dick.
posted by Rykey at 1:16 PM on August 8, 2008


I'm sorry I caused all that cancer. I didn't realize it was such a hideous disease.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:38 PM on August 8, 2008 [2 favorites]


apology.metafilter.com.

And it can be with a white colored background, for simplicity. And white colored text, for even more simplicity. And the text can be like 3px to emphasize how small that person feels. And accessing the page will result in a redirect back to the main site, to show solidarity.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:10 PM on August 8, 2008 [1 favorite]


Ornate Instect Someone needs to go get more beer. Is anyone going to go on a beer run?

We call 'em packy runs up here in Maine. Because liquor stores are package stores. Ex.: "Ayup, time to make a packy run."

And Mike, having lived in Chicago for many years, I would not throw a beer on you unless it was, oh, Milwaukee's Best or something. Even then I'd probably put some salt in it and drink it while slapping you on the back and saying, "that's ok, man, we can all be bitches once in a while."

Wonders how many states call them package stores besides Maine and Mass.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:41 AM on August 10, 2008


"We call 'em packy runs up here in Maine. Because liquor stores are package stores. Ex.: "Ayup, time to make a packy run."

Paki
posted by fixedgear at 1:11 PM on August 10, 2008


Wonders how many states call them package stores besides Maine and Mass.

Some are called that around here (Philly, Delaware), but usually if it's a bar that also sells beer to go.

posted by Pax at 10:28 AM on August 11, 2008


I remember visiting friends in New York and having them tell me to run down to the packy store to buy some beer. I was all like, "Y'know, I think the folks who own that are actually Puerto Rican…"
posted by klangklangston at 2:16 PM on August 11, 2008


Connecticut also calls them package stores, and I'm pretty sure the other new england states do as well.
posted by Arturus at 4:05 PM on August 11, 2008


Connecticut also calls them package stores, and I'm pretty sure the other new england states do as well.

Vermont doesn't.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:50 PM on August 11, 2008


huh.
posted by Arturus at 10:28 PM on August 11, 2008


Nor does New Hampshire.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:30 AM on August 12, 2008


Yes, here we call them State Run Liquor Stores.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:40 AM on August 12, 2008


Most people in NH call them Liquor Stores.

I call them Liquor Barns.

If you've never been to an NH liquor store (barn), and you like booze, you owe yourself a visit. Just jump on 93 and start driving, and you'll hit one soon enough. They're huge, they're cheap, and they're tax free.
posted by SpiffyRob at 9:23 AM on August 12, 2008


In western Mass you're only allowed to say "package store" if you're wearing Carhartts or driving a tractor. Or both. The rest of us call them liquor stores, just like normal people.
posted by ook at 1:25 PM on August 22, 2008


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