Let's NOT go down the "more after the jump" path. October 14, 2008 12:08 AM   Subscribe

Posts such as this one or this one don't really make for a good post, at least from the front page's POV. How about an addendum to the posting guidelines to nip the god-awful "more after the jump"-style of linking in the bud before it starts to take over on MeFi?
posted by slater to Etiquette/Policy at 12:08 AM (80 comments total)

What, you think it's better to have a beefy post like Mutant's take up half the front page?
posted by TungstenChef at 12:33 AM on October 14, 2008


No, but a balance, for example "here's one or two main links for this post" and "more links inside" should be achievable, no? A single link to ft.com does not, strangely enough, make a good post. imho.
posted by slater at 12:36 AM on October 14, 2008


Yes, please, let's have the whole thing on the front page so I have to scroll and scroll and scroll if I'm not interested. It keeps my finger limber.

/sarcasm
posted by no1hatchling at 12:40 AM on October 14, 2008


Let's NOT.
posted by Elmore at 12:41 AM on October 14, 2008


A single link to ft.com does not, strangely enough, make a good post. imho.

Strangely enough, both of those were good posts with many many links!
posted by no1hatchling at 12:41 AM on October 14, 2008


Prepare yourself for the torch and pitchfork treatment, because this feature was added in response to a loud call for the ability to make long posts without clogging up the front page. If you have a better suggestion to handle these conflicting needs, I'm sure people are willing to listen. Lol.
posted by TungstenChef at 12:46 AM on October 14, 2008


Dood, metafilter has been looking so much better for the last six months since there's been an unspoken consensus on style, i.e., the shorter the FPP length, the better.

You don't rember the old days, do ya? Oh, wait, you're 1466. How the hell could you possibly miss the days of Y2Karl (and his posts are usually great content-wise, mind you) taking up 3/4 of the main page with a single post?
posted by bardic at 12:52 AM on October 14, 2008


Why is the only alternative to what I'm pointing out "LOLOLOL YEAH LET'S MAKE POSTS THAT TAKE UP HALF THE FRONT PAGE LOLOLOL"?

All I'm saying is, let's have the substance of the post within the FPP post, with supporting links as the "more inside".
posted by slater at 1:01 AM on October 14, 2008 [4 favorites]


because this feature was added in response to a loud call for the ability to make long posts without clogging up the front page.

I'm not advocating a removal of the "more inside" feature...? Lol.

How the hell could you possibly miss the days of Y2Karl taking up 3/4 of the main page with a single post?
I'm not missing those days at all...
posted by slater at 1:04 AM on October 14, 2008


NO SINGLE LINKS
NO MULTI-LINKS
NOT TOO MANY LINKS AFTER THE JUMP
NOT TOO MANY LINKS BEFORE THE JUMP
DON'T LINK TO THIS
MORE LINKS TO THAT
I DISAPPROVE OF THIS SUBJECT
TOO MANY POSTS ON THE SAME SUBJECT
MOISTURIZING IS NOTHING BUT A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
posted by turgid dahlia at 1:05 AM on October 14, 2008 [7 favorites]


Ah, I see what you're getting at, but I've got to disagree with you about this being a bad thing. People are given a pretty wide latitude about formatting their posts, and I think the diversity of styles makes for a more interesting site.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:20 AM on October 14, 2008 [3 favorites]


Has this been hashed out before? Oh, not exactly. Well then carry on if you must.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:07 AM on October 14, 2008


For what it's worth, I agree with slater. A single link to the FT, or to a previous MeFi post, is not a good use of front page real estate. Either of those posters could have used a couple of their 'more inside' links in the FPP and then had the rest inside. That said, meh.
posted by MrMustard at 2:21 AM on October 14, 2008


MOISTURIZING IS NOTHING BUT A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY

Unless you're using home-rendered hog grease. That'd be OK.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:46 AM on October 14, 2008


...at least from the front page's POV.

So, you and the front page have been discussing this, eh?

Hey, did the front page have anything to say about my posts? I'd love to know.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:46 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


flapjax: he's kinda "meh" about your posts. Sorry. It's him, not you.
posted by slater at 2:54 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


People love their mystery meat. I blame local market TV news. You just have to learn to let go and scroll by.
posted by Mitheral at 2:57 AM on October 14, 2008


What, you think it's better to have a beefy post like Mutant's take up half the front page?

Strangely enough, both of those were good posts with many many links!

Mutant's post, bless him, really isn't beefy, though it is long. Mutant gives us, for each tome, his summary of the opinion expressed and....a link to the opportunity to buy..

Did I miss something? In what way isn't this a matter for a personal blog. Can I now post an FPP on My Favourite Fantasy Authors with a brief synopsis, links to Amazon and one to F&SF online? I'm just not seeing it.

I know a lot of people dig Mutant's work (personally, I can't understand a word of it, but its intelligence and diligence shine through regardless and sometimes I like to follow along pretending I'm a Wolfean Master of the Universe). This, however, was not his finest hour.
posted by Sparx at 3:08 AM on October 14, 2008


MOISTURIZING IS NOTHING BUT A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY

Not a capitalist conspiracy. Just plain, old, garden variety, "sell them something they don't need" capitalism.

For what it's worth, I'm glad the BUY MY PRODUCT links were after the jump.
posted by robcorr at 3:13 AM on October 14, 2008


Yes, because I work for all those companies simultaneously.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:14 AM on October 14, 2008


Just because a post features links to companies and products doesn't necessarily mean we have to start yelling Pepsi Blue at everyone.
posted by panboi at 4:34 AM on October 14, 2008


I always skip these posts... not on principle or anything, they just don't grab my attention. When I personally make posts I try to put everything on the front page unless it's truly incidental to the post. If I feel like it's taking up too much space on the front page I'd rather cut stuff out than throw a bunch of links into the more inside. But that's just my personal guideline when it comes to posting.
posted by Kattullus at 4:35 AM on October 14, 2008


It only irritates me if I can't tell what the post is about without expanding it. With both of these posts, I can tell what the subject is and then decide if I want to see the rest of the links.
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 4:59 AM on October 14, 2008


MOISTURIZING IS NOTHING BUT A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY

No, but I do wonder just why everything contains moisturizer these days. Just how moist do we need to be? Pretty soon we'll all be puddles.
posted by jonmc at 5:01 AM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]


The link you put in the main link box should be the reason you're posting. Some people forget that.
posted by smackfu at 5:28 AM on October 14, 2008


I get frustrated with the "more inside" structure when I'm writing a post because sometimes there's no logical place to put a break and I hate feeling like my best links aren't on the front page. But I'll still at least try to keep my posts shorter (though they're still usually the longest or one of the longest on the front page;-)) because I know it's best if we all try to keep our posts brief and I don't get to be an exception.
posted by orange swan at 5:29 AM on October 14, 2008


I know it's best if we all try to keep our posts brief

I think it's best if everyone just tries to make the best posts they can. Some posts need to be wordy. Some don't. Fortunately, not all FPPs are wordy, and not all are super-short. I think there's a pretty good mix, actually, on average.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:35 AM on October 14, 2008


The link you put in the main link box should be the reason you're posting.

This rule just doesn't apply to all posts. To a single link post, sure. But if you're trying to cover a given topic you can wind up with a multi-link FPP. My posts usually have about two dozen links in them, all of which are comparable in quality and importance to the post. It can be difficult to constrain the length of this kind of post.
posted by orange swan at 5:42 AM on October 14, 2008


Yes, because I work for all those companies simultaneously.

Oh, so you're a voluntary shill?

Sorry, but "here is a list of my favourite products" is not a good post.
posted by robcorr at 6:01 AM on October 14, 2008


Oh, so you're a voluntary shill?

If he said it loudly would he be a shrill shill? Should he take a pill? or should we just shoot to kill?

Dude, write out your will.
posted by jonmc at 6:08 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


Neither of those posts used the phrase "more after the jump." But I agree, MetaFilter should not adopt the term "jump" because there is no jump online.
posted by Eideteker at 6:11 AM on October 14, 2008


A conceptual leap is no leap at all!
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:13 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


NO!
LEAP!
TILL BROOKLYN!!!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:24 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


Google search results for "more after the jump".

WE'RE # 1 !!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:28 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


I think the answer here is clear: there need to be Metafilter dingbats, and all posts should be constructed in rebus format.
posted by Bernt Pancreas at 6:29 AM on October 14, 2008


You might as well jump! Jump in! Jump for your love!
posted by orange swan at 6:30 AM on October 14, 2008


there need to be Metafilter dingbats,

I thought we were the Metafilter dingbats!
posted by jonmc at 6:32 AM on October 14, 2008


Being mindful of what people are going to see both before and after the more inside is a decent strategy for creating a good post to the front page. I was irked by the shaving post because to people just looking at the front page, it was a post with a link to a previous MeFi post which I agree, is meh. Mutant's post is a link to the Financial Times and a reading list? While I don't think there's a policy statement to come out of this particular pair of post, I see Mutant's as serious GYOB territory. Hate to go against the grain here but I thought both of those posts weren't really in the spirit of "sharing something neat you found on the web" though the shaving one could have been with just a little tweaking.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:35 AM on October 14, 2008 [4 favorites]


MOISTURIZING IS NOTHING BUT A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY

Have the beautiful skin you deserve!

Plus maybe some cancer.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:46 AM on October 14, 2008


Let's not forget – posts are neither created nor read in a vacuum. People know Mutant, and they enjoy reading his posts, and are more likely to open a post like this, esp. on this particular subject, when his (its) name is attached. That, my friends, is a feature, not a bug, of this community webthing.
posted by Mister_A at 6:49 AM on October 14, 2008


I think these posts are fine because, contextually, I knew what was going to be inside. Mutant makes long posts about matters financial - if I see a non-stellar single link and a [more inside] I know there will be a lot more to chew on in there. It's fine to expect users of MeFi to know some of the norms.

Similarly, with the shaving link, I saw it on the front page, was pretty certain I knew what would be inside, and didn't bother to go in. Examining the link now I see I was right.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 6:51 AM on October 14, 2008


People love their mystery meat. I blame local market TV news.

I hate mystery meat, and I agree with blaming local tv news. "What is in your bedroom that will kill you and stomp on your children's heads?!! More info at 11pm, after the game jump."

Plus, putting "after the jump" is like writing 'sheeple', or putting o_0, or typing LOLOL. It's played out and lame. Dragging out the point to where you can't really see much value as you look at the page, and you have to click inside - that gets annoying. It's annoying in TV news, annoying in RSS feeds when you get a sentence and have to visit the post to see if it's worth a damn, and it's annoying on the front page of Metafilter too.
posted by cashman at 7:05 AM on October 14, 2008


The shaving link was deleted by poster's request before anyone could make a dirty joke out of jonmc's comment:

This is true. We just go down to the train station and pay some old guy $5 to do it with a buffing rag.

posted by Burhanistan at 7:08 AM on October 14, 2008


Maybe posters could choose a grade somewhere between "very slightly more inside" and "A WHOLE LOT MORE INSIDE!!!!!!!!"?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:09 AM on October 14, 2008


That, my friends, is a feature, not a bug, of this community webthing.

I say bug. Once someone develops their schtick to that level of predictability (Mutant makes long posts about matters financial) it's well past time for them to GTOFB. Popularity be damned.

But if you're trying to cover a given topic

A post is not a syllabus.
posted by otio at 7:29 AM on October 14, 2008


Go see a doctor.
posted by Artw at 7:38 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


Once someone develops their schtick to that level of predictability

Bunk, people can post about whatever the hell they want - it's about the quality of the content, not the predictability of the poster that matters.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:45 AM on October 14, 2008


After the jump. Hmmmm.

there is no jump online.

My first instinct is to say "sure there is." After all, there's no jump in a magazine or newspaper; it was already metaphorical, comparing the need for a physical action to bring you to a new location (turning the pages) to a jump with the whole body. There's not really much difference online - you need to take physical action (point, click) to arrive at the new location. You're "jumping" to a new page, just as you do on paper.

Furthermore, the "jump" online exists for exactly the same reason it exists in newspapers: to use the prime real estate to create awareness of as many of the most important pieces of content as possible, allowing the reader to choose which to investigate more deeply. I often read the front page of MeFi like I read the front page of the Times - scan it, read the first graf, then choose one or two things to delve into.

I don't see it so much as a trendy verbal meme as a natural migration of long-used media lingo to a new medium. It works, and there's no other extant way to express it (other than "click here for more!"). I say it works, I say let's keep it.
posted by Miko at 8:04 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


My friends, I must disagree with otio on this one. It is a feature of the site that we have certain posters who have achieved a level of prominence and respect within the community for their excellent posts on a "pet" topic. I don't feel, reading Mutant's posts, that he should start posting about art (*though he has, tangentially) any more than I feel that jonson should start posting about McPalin. However, if one of these posters did that, I would be very interested to see what they had to say about topics that are so far afield of their usual demesnes.
posted by Mister_A at 8:15 AM on October 14, 2008


Bunk, people can post about whatever the hell they want - it's about the quality of the content, not the predictability of the poster that matters.

The non-mutant content in the second link was almost entirely links to amazon. I don't know how much value there really was to that post that wasn't mutant-derived. Even if the topic was of interest you wouldn't gain much by following the links, as opposed to, say, a thematically linked series of YouTube vids - hence the whiff of personal blogginess. With Turgid Dahlia's, you could at least learn what an astringent was.
posted by Sparx at 8:19 AM on October 14, 2008


I think it's best if everyone just tries to make the best posts they can.

Quoted for truth. And stop picking on Mutant—he's half the reason I visit the site these days.
posted by languagehat at 8:40 AM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


Otio's criticism was about the predictability of a poster's choices, not the content. My point is that thematic predictability isn't inherently bad.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:42 AM on October 14, 2008


The non-mutant content in the second link was almost entirely links to amazon. I don't know how much value there really was to that post that wasn't mutant-derived.

I agree with this too, actually. I like Mutant's financial wonkiness a fair amount myself and don't really have a problem with (non axe-grindy) personal preferences or themes if the posts themselves are good, but it's not too hard to wander into GYOB territory on a pet subject and that post really is pushing that line awful hard.

Cool stuff on the web, not cool books to buy from a website, non?
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:54 AM on October 14, 2008


MOISTURIZING IS NOTHING BUT A CAPITALIST CONSPIRACY


They are on their way in and no one can bring them back. For the sake of our country and our way of life, I suggest you get the rest of MetaTalk in after them. Otherwise, we will be totally destroyed by Reddit retaliation. My boys will give you the best kind of start, fourteen hundred FPPs worth, and you sure as hell won't stop them now. So let's get going. There's no other choice. God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
posted by juv3nal at 9:42 AM on October 14, 2008


I think I stopped reading Lifehacker in large part because I fucking hate the phrase "more after the jump." It just causes irrational seething rage in me for some reason.
posted by desjardins at 10:32 AM on October 14, 2008


Yeah, so, to recap:

1) Complaining about Mutant's posts is like saying you don't get why everyone likes that Paul Krugman guy. Popular opinion sways the other way.

2) Did you call out a deleted post on purpose? Or did that happen post-callout? Because calling out a deleted post is about as lame as it gets.

3) This is a bad callout.

4) You're a bad person for making this callout.

5) You should feel bad.
posted by GuyZero at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2008


stop picking on Mutant
Not picking on him.


1) Complaining about Mutant's posts bla bla
I'm not calling out Mutant.

2) Did you call out a deleted post on purpose?
Nope.

Or did that happen post-callout?
When I wrote this thread, the "deleted post" was still available on the front page

3) This is a bad callout.
No it's not! ner!

4) You're a bad person for making this callout.
NO!

5) You should feel bad.
nope.
posted by slater at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2008


Also to recap: we still have not deleted a post that consists of links to Amazon.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2008


Hey, come on now, there was also that link to the front page of the Financial Times.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2008


In the hazy swampland of adjudication that is my post-headcold mind, deleting the post at this point would be maybe unnecessarily Jerky McJerkerson territory, mostly. I'm in the pocket of Big Softie, I guess.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2008


"After all, there's no jump in a magazine or newspaper"

Exactly.
posted by Eideteker at 1:57 PM on October 14, 2008


"After all, there's no jump in a magazine or newspaper"

Exactly.


Even Highlights has page breaks.
posted by GuyZero at 2:09 PM on October 14, 2008


cortex: I'm in the pocket of Big Softie, I guess.

I bet you sleep like a baby too. Sheesh!
posted by Kattullus at 2:16 PM on October 14, 2008


Oh, so you're a voluntary shill?

You're right, robcorr. This wasn't because I hadn't cared for myself for nearly thirty years and only, very recently, started to put a little more effort into my daily appearance (extreme problem skin, dandruff, etc.), found a lot of stuff that worked, and as such figured some other gentlemen out there might be interested in some more information for their own issues. This was all an elaborate conspiracy: though I ostensibly reside in Brisbane, what I actually do is work behind the Clarins (HOLY FUCK IT'S A BRAND NAME GET IN THE CAR!) counter at Bergdorf-Goodman in New York City. This subterfuge was carefully orchestrated over a period of months, every facet of it administrated with mathematical precision, in order to sell you some fucking astringent. But you got me, Flappy the Wonder-Seal. I should have known better than to try and slip one in under your CONSUMER-DAR, with its modulation of forty-thousand Rushkoffs per second. You're totally savvy, boy, and I tip my hat to you. Your prize? A fully biodynamic ice cream, frozen not by a significant decrease in ambient temperature, but by chanting.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:15 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]


tl;dr? Fuck yourself and the golden pegasus you apparently seem to think you waft around on, so far above my head, so far beyond crass commercialism. Want to know why a Maserati is more expensive than a clapped-out Gemini held together with chewing gum and cardboard toilet paper rolls? Because it fucking works better.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:20 PM on October 14, 2008




Ok, coffee time now! :D
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:22 PM on October 14, 2008


Did you just summarize your own ranty rebuttal?

Also, from now on, all scientific papers will, instead of being summarized with an old-fashioned "abstract", be summarized with a "tl;dr?" section.
posted by GuyZero at 3:23 PM on October 14, 2008


And then you summarized the summary. You and Gordon Lightfoot are reading my mind.
posted by GuyZero at 3:23 PM on October 14, 2008


I wanted to do a "more after the jump" actually.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:25 PM on October 14, 2008


Ok, coffee time now

Yes, caffeine will definitely help you feel less ranty.
posted by desjardins at 3:26 PM on October 14, 2008


You may want to get something for the overly sensitive and paper-thin skin you're sporting there.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:26 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]


What? I've been here for like six months and I was totally due for a meltdown. Everyone else gets one!
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:31 PM on October 14, 2008


I just went to flag that post (because Amazon links? really?) and I was shocked that 47 people had favorited it. Guess they really like the financial times. Must be the pink.
posted by smackfu at 3:32 PM on October 14, 2008


You may want to get something for the overly sensitive and paper-thin skin you're sporting there.

Translucent skin is considered very attractive in many Asian countries. Apparently they use pearls.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:33 PM on October 14, 2008


Mr. dahlia: You don't get to play Persecuted Poster if you yourself asked the mods to nuke the thread.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:08 PM on October 14, 2008


I asked for the thread to be removed because it was poorly received and, while I understand why, I dislike being called a "shill".
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:22 PM on October 14, 2008


Sorry for calling you a shill. If I'd known it would lead to a mental breakdown I wouldn't have done it.

Let me point out that while my comment was favourited by a few people, your post was favourited by more. I don't think it needed to be deleted. I just don't think it was very well executed, that's all. I would have enjoyed a back-and-forth about the merits of cosmetics.

Nothing personal.
posted by robcorr at 6:17 PM on October 14, 2008


turgid dahlia, I liked your post and I would have argued with you about the need for its deletion except my Mom is in town and we were going out to dinner [burger and a beer $10! such a deal], the same goes for why Mutant's post wasn't deleted before and why we think it's probably too late to do it now.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:42 PM on October 14, 2008


I like the posts where every letter and punctuation mark is a link. Those are cool. /sarcasm
posted by fixedgear at 8:14 PM on October 15, 2008


« Older Not everybody lives in Canada.   |   I guess 150 billion is too much..... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments