"pretty ordinary stuff for a state full of people that are 48% inbred."

March 12, 2010 6:04 PM

The discussion of Mainers taking place in this thread is troubling me.

It's not helpful, it's not accurate, and it's not really relevant. If LOLSOUTH, LOLXTIAN, etc. are not OK, I just really don't see how this is OK.

posted by rollbiz to Etiquette/Policy at 6:04 PM (252 comments total)

I remember Curley being a dick about Maine years ago. He used to live there and has a huge chip on his shoulder about it. Let it go.
posted by selfnoise at 6:08 PM on March 12, 2010

Wow. That sort of stuff does not seem OK, at all. I get upset when people around here bash Texas and the South, so I really hope those offensive comments get deleted. Someday, people will realize that every state (and country) has its share of idiots. And maybe they'll take a look at their behavior and realize how well they're representing their state's contingent.
posted by MadamM at 6:12 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's not okay and it shouldn't be okay. It's lazy, tired and offensive rhetoric. It's unbecoming and serves no purpose other than stirring shit and making GRAR. I wish people would STFU about it already. If that's all you have to bring to the conversation, just don't.
posted by rtha at 6:12 PM on March 12, 2010 [5 favorites]

With all due respect, I'm not going to let it go. It's a total derail, it's offensive, and it doesn't belong there for any other reason. I'd be ashamed of what outsiders would think of this community if that is left to stand in the thread.
posted by rollbiz at 6:14 PM on March 12, 2010

It's also not just him.
posted by rollbiz at 6:15 PM on March 12, 2010

I grew up there. 22 long years as a legal resident, bro. I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:15 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

I grew up there. 22 long years as a legal resident, bro. I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed.

Extending your metaphor: you're also calling me a bitch, and it's not okay.
posted by Elsa at 6:17 PM on March 12, 2010 [13 favorites]

I've lived in Maine and a bunch of other states. If you think Maine has a lock on stupid people, you need to get out more, Mayor. You're entitled to your opinion, and given the way you expressed it, you're also entitled to the raft of shit you're going to get for it. It's like you;re determined to demonstrate the stereotype you so despise.
posted by rtha at 6:17 PM on March 12, 2010 [15 favorites]

I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed.

Yeah, that's the thing: You shouldn't. This isn't your blog, and the fact that you lived there doesn't give you some special carte blanche to act like an idiot at the expense of an otherwise good post.
posted by rollbiz at 6:18 PM on March 12, 2010 [9 favorites]

Extending your metaphor: you're also calling me a bitch, and it's not okay.

no, extending my metaphor, I'm calling OUR mom a bitch.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:23 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

no, extending my metaphor, I'm calling OUR mom a bitch.

You're calling Mainers stupid; that's an insult that spatters me, whether you're aiming at me or not.
posted by Elsa at 6:24 PM on March 12, 2010

(Just to be clear: I don't find it offensive so much as predictable and tedious. I'm stepping out of the thread now.)
posted by Elsa at 6:27 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Being from a state does not grant you license to act like an ass when it is referenced, Mayor Curley. If it did, I'd have plenty to say about folks from Ahhhlington.
posted by rollbiz at 6:28 PM on March 12, 2010

MC, if you had something constructive to add, it got lost in the bile.

As far as I can see, your shitty personal experiences shouldn't give you a free pass to do the same shit gets LOLTEXAS comments deleted around here.
posted by zarq at 6:33 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Then we'd probably feel more comfortable directing intelligence related slurs towards the states which had fewer idiots.
posted by ODiV at 6:35 PM on March 12, 2010

So, Mayor Curley's from Maine, and he says people from Maine are obnoxious inbred jerks.

In this case, I'm inclined to agree with him.

It wasn't me who used the term "inbred." seriously, go back to the thread and look. But nice ad hominem, lazy asshole. (if you can do it, I can do it.)
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:37 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed.

If you want to call yourself a son of a bitch, I think you should be allowed. Just ease up on the Maine bashing.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:38 PM on March 12, 2010

Everyone just say happy pleasant things and no one will ever be offended.
posted by smackfu at 6:40 PM on March 12, 2010 [4 favorites]

is the problem that Mainers aren't stupid and you shouldn't go around blasting them over your personal experiences there or is it a you shouldn't call groups of people stupid ever even if it's true thing

Maybe it's that as the group grows larger and larger (from one neighbor to one state), our description of the group as stupid becomes less likely to be a true thing.
posted by sallybrown at 6:42 PM on March 12, 2010

floam: you shouldn't call groups of people stupid ever even if it's true thing?

These are quotes from the thread:
"pretty ordinary stuff for a state full of people that are 48% inbred."
(Which Mayor Curley didn't write and is offended for you to think that he did, hoo boy. He did favorite it though.)

"Maine is has an inordinate (for the Northeast) number of idiots in it. Find twelve Mainers ignorant enough to be allowed to sit on a jury and mentally they'll have the collective wattage of a broken nightlight."
(Mayor Curley owns this one)

So, floam, when discussing an interesting court case dealing with the intricacies of law vs. unwritten law + vigilante law, with the extra added historical elements of the Lobster Wars, do you think these were constructive additions to such a post?
posted by rollbiz at 6:42 PM on March 12, 2010

What ever happened to "flag it and move on"?
posted by peeedro at 6:43 PM on March 12, 2010 [3 favorites]

Hey, if Mayor Curley wants to call himself an idiot and a son of a bitch, let's not disagree!

You already said that, but I guess it got you one favorite so you'll try the same thing again. At least you stopped attributing "inbred" to me, so thanks I guess.

Everyone just say happy pleasant things and no one will ever be offended.

You must be from Maine to realize that because those people are exceptionally bright.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:45 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

I grew up there. 22 long years as a legal resident, bro. I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed.

Do you think Metafilter is your personal dumping ground for all your pent-up rage about your home state? What exactly do you think the point of this website is? The Internet already has a garbage pile, it's called 4chan. I'd prefer it if we used Metafilter as a place to talk about good and interesting things.
posted by shii at 6:45 PM on March 12, 2010 [3 favorites]

The skin is so thin in this room that if I went up to one of you with a stick and I poked you odds are that I would puncture your skin like it was made of wet tissue paper.

Yikes.
posted by kbanas at 6:48 PM on March 12, 2010 [19 favorites]

I'd prefer it if we used Metafilter as a place to talk about good and interesting things.

I'm not a Mainer (resident of Maine?), but I am a Marylander, and if Mayor Curley were talking smack about MD in his colorful and witty way I'd find it humorous--which counts as good and interesting enough in my book.
posted by sallybrown at 6:48 PM on March 12, 2010 [4 favorites]

BECAUSE IT IS THAT THIN.
posted by kbanas at 6:48 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

You must be from Maine to realize that because those people are exceptionally bright.

I'm really trying to give you lots of outs here. There's 1.3 million people in Maine, do you really wish to continue to generalize them all based on your single, anecdotal experience you got from growing up there?
posted by rollbiz at 6:49 PM on March 12, 2010

There's 1.3 million people in Maine, do you really wish to continue to generalize them all based on your single, anecdotal experience you got from growing up there?

Oh for fuck's sake. I never said that all 1.3 million Mainers were dumb. The phrase I used is "Maine is has an inordinate (for the Northeast) number of idiots in it." That's a far cry from "every single person in Maine is of diminished mental capacity."

Maine has a lot of stupid people in it. However, not everyone in Maine is stupid, and you are not among the stupid people. Are you happy? Please say you're happy with that. Because that's all I meant.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:56 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

Maine has a lot of stupid people in it. However, not everyone in Maine is stupid, and you are not among the stupid people. Are you happy?

Speaking of lazy, I'm not someone who is in, from, or has ever lived in Maine. But by your own comments, if you're going to argue you were participating in the thread rather than grinding your axe, you've chosen to lay stupidity at the feet a state based on the actions of four primary participants and 12 jurors. So why don't you think again about who is generalizing?
posted by rollbiz at 7:02 PM on March 12, 2010

The skin is so thin in this room that if I went up to one of you with a stick and I poked you odds are that I would puncture your skin like it was made of wet tissue paper.

Really. Lay off Mayor Curley a bit.

I'm from Maine, and I think Mayor Curley's comment was a bit over-the-line, although obviously hyperbolic. And we certainly don't have a monopoly on provincial lunkheads.

But we do have a lot of them, and it's mainly due to how crappy the economy up here is.
Maine, at least rural Maine, is desperately poor. And this long-term poverty really develops a nasty mindset and some really ugly behavior- to the point where we have road signs telling you not to beat your wife in Deer Isle, a major lobstering center.

The smart people, the people who could make Maine a neat, vibrant place, end up getting the hell out of their hometown and moving to a major city like Portland or out of state entirely. The people who stay behind are the ones they were fleeing, meaning the awful provincialness is, to a point, self-enforcing.
posted by dunkadunc at 7:03 PM on March 12, 2010 [18 favorites]

I, for one, am mystified by "There was a guy down in Stonington who mysteriously came back to port minus a black guy who he'd gone out with." Black guy? Huh?
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:04 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

Speaking of lazy, I'm not someone who is in, from, or has ever lived in Maine.


Do you at least concede that I didn't call every Mainer stupid?
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:07 PM on March 12, 2010

dunkadunc, that's very well-put!
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:09 PM on March 12, 2010

Just anecdotally, from my experience, if you see an unpaved driveway in Maine heading into some woods, and there's a chain across it, and a hanging sign that says, "keep out," then I strongly recommend not going up that driveway, and doing your best to stay off that parcel of land.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:10 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

Jesus H Christ have we forgotten what hyperbole is?

Do we have to take every goddamned statement so literally?
posted by Max Power at 7:10 PM on March 12, 2010 [9 favorites]

Really. Lay off Mayor Curley a bit. ... long term poverty ... to the point where we have road signs telling you not to beat your wife in Deer Isle, a major lobstering center.

Oh, OK, so if this were a discussion about a small but interesting conflict in Dorchester (or Detroit, or the South Bronx) and someone was like "They're all stupid, wife beatin', welfare collecting idiots, and any jury you make of them is gonna be st00pid", you'd think that was not a big deal?
posted by rollbiz at 7:10 PM on March 12, 2010

Do you at least concede that I didn't call every Mainer stupid?

Only if you concede that it's idiotic to be making statements about the entire population of your state based on 16-ish people, most of which come from a small, isolated island of 50.
posted by rollbiz at 7:12 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

i don't see how people from maine can be that bad - i mean, they're obviously not from ohio, right?
posted by pyramid termite at 7:14 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

The smart people, the people who could make Maine a neat, vibrant place, end up getting the hell out of their hometown and moving to a major city like Portland or out of state entirely.

As long as we're making gross generalizations in this thread too, I would like to state for the record that the Damariscotta-Boothbay area is full of wonderful, friendly people, and Moody's Diner has never failed to put the priciest restaurants of New York in their shameful place.
posted by shii at 7:17 PM on March 12, 2010

Oh, OK, so if this were a discussion about a small but interesting conflict in Dorchester (or Detroit, or the South Bronx) and someone was like "They're all stupid, wife beatin', welfare collecting idiots, and any jury you make of them is gonna be st00pid", you'd think that was not a big deal?

No it's not a BIG DEAL, your hyper-sensitivity is even making bunnies and kittens roll their fucking eyes.
posted by Max Power at 7:18 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

"They're all stupid, wife beatin', welfare collecting idiots, and any jury you make of them is gonna be st00pid", you'd think that was not a big deal?

Not so much if the person said "We're all stupid...etc."

And I'd think it was a little odd if someone else was all "how dare you native Dorchester person speak like that about Dorchester--not that I've ever been there."

I get that you find this to be an objectionable LOLMAINE thing, but I think there's a big difference between "weary LOL, my home state is at it again" and a threadwide "LOLMAINE SUCKS! BURN IT! LET IT DRIFT INTO THE ATLANTIC!"
posted by sallybrown at 7:20 PM on March 12, 2010 [3 favorites]

It's no surprise that rollbiz is from Worcester, a "city" whose population is 100% cretinous morlocks.

Big talk from someone whose town's official mascot is William Calley.
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 7:20 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

With all due respect to Mainers, lesbians, Christians, BoingBoing fans, and Purple People Eaters, there's a difference between "terribly offensive" and "somebody said something on the internet that I disagree with!"

Ands it's troubling to me to see several Metatalk posts lately that essentially come down to people asking either that their opinions be group-validated, or that opinions they don't like be removed by the mods.

I don't want a clean, inoffensive, sanitized Metafilter where comments are policed or worse, self-censored for fear of provoking a callout. Sure, remove direct personal insults ("User X is a knob!"), but this "you were insensitive to my kind of people" crap is getting out of hand.

If you disagree with someone's opinion, refute them in the thread or don't read the thread -- but please stop asking for the mods to protect you from reading things you disagree with.
posted by orthogonality at 7:22 PM on March 12, 2010 [209 favorites]

It's no surprise that rollbiz is from Worcester, a "city" whose population is 100% cretinous morlocks.

No, this is complete and utter bullshit and I won't stand for it. According to the 2000 Census, we are 72% cretinous morlocks, and 28% wretched beast of other varieties...We'll see what the 2010 count brings.
posted by rollbiz at 7:25 PM on March 12, 2010 [3 favorites]

The Internet already has a garbage pile, it's called 4chan.

4chan has a very diverse population of users and it is quite offensive to generalize them all as garbage. I am quite saddened by this offensive use of generalizations.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:26 PM on March 12, 2010 [33 favorites]

Just anecdotally, from my experience, if you see an unpaved driveway in Maine heading into some woods, and there's a chain across it, and a hanging sign that says, "keep out," then I strongly recommend not going up that driveway, and doing your best to stay off that parcel of land.

Yeah, usually it means someone from out-of-state has bought that land and only lives there two months out of the year, but doesn't want anyone else going there, ever. They've probably even got a security system.

When my dad was a teenager in Bar Harbor, some rich fuck got resentful of people walking along the (public) Shore Path and decided to build a fence blocking off access where it crossed his property- this is after people had been using the path for almost a hundred years.
So this fourteen-year-old kid comes along, sees the fence, thinks 'screw that- he can't do this!' and starts tearing it down.
The landowner comes out, and what does he do?
He shoots the kid in the knee. And gets away with it.

So it's interesting how it's not always the locals who are shooting to defend traditional access rights - sometimes it's millionaires from away shooting to get rid of them.
posted by dunkadunc at 7:28 PM on March 12, 2010 [3 favorites]

Maine is has an inordinate (for the Northeast) number of idiots in it.

Is the implication in this statement that the Northeast, Maine excepted, has less idiots in it than other regions of the country? In other words, is the implication that Maine is more like, for instance (and to play into the familiar stereotype), a Southern state? If so, congratulations, you've managed to insult both people from Maine and people from the South in one fell swoop.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 7:28 PM on March 12, 2010

orthogonality, I'm not asking for mods to "protect" me from anything. I was perfectly happy, and quite tempted, to launch into a full derail right then and there in that thread. But that wouldn't be very fair to the person who posted it, or the people who bothered to show up and add information about the historical precedence of the Lobster Wars, and it wouldn't be in agreement with how this community is supposed to function. We aren't supposed to be derailing via derails in threads, and certainly you've been here long enough to know that.
posted by rollbiz at 7:28 PM on March 12, 2010

orthogonality, I'm not asking for mods to "protect" me from anything. I was perfectly happy, and quite tempted, to launch into a full derail right then and there in that thread. But that wouldn't be very fair to the person who posted it, or the people who bothered to show up and add information about the historical precedence of the Lobster Wars, and it wouldn't be in agreement with how this community is supposed to function. We aren't supposed to be derailing via derails in threads, and certainly you've been here long enough to know that.

Not supposed to take every comment you don't like to Meta either, especially when it is the incredibly tired, "This user made an offensive generalization about blank" thread again. Flag and move on.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:31 PM on March 12, 2010 [5 favorites]

It wasn't one comment, furiousxgeorge. And although Mayor Curley has quickly made it the "Mayor Curley Show", if you look at my headline it wasn't just his comments either.
posted by rollbiz at 7:33 PM on March 12, 2010

In other words, is the implication that Maine is more like, for instance (and to play into the familiar stereotype), a Southern state? If so, congratulations, you've managed to insult both people from Maine and people from the South in one fell swoop.

Or did you just insult people from the South by assuming that's the region Mayor Curley was alluding to?

Or did I just insult people from the West by assuming Mayor Curly could be alluding to them?

etc.
posted by sallybrown at 7:34 PM on March 12, 2010

I grew up there. 22 long years as a legal resident, bro. I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed.

And I'm calling you a nattering blowhard, which I think should also be allowed.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 7:34 PM on March 12, 2010

wa it me
was it you
questions in a world of fools
posted by freshundz at 7:35 PM on March 12, 2010

This isn't worth arguing over. FIAMO.

COFFEE BRANDY AND MILK ALL AROUND
posted by dunkadunc at 7:35 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

sometimes it's millionaires from away shooting to get rid of them.

To be fair, rich people all over America have always been able to do exactly what they want without real repercussions.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:36 PM on March 12, 2010

COFFEE BRANDY AND MILK ALL AROUND

Don't got any Allen's, bro. But I am going to make a virgin sombrero out of Autocrat and skim milk and toast a few of you. Seriously. Good thing I don't have any oxycodone, either.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:41 PM on March 12, 2010

Is there a full moon?

Or is the normally quite normal people becoming ever-so-slightly unhinged/outraged-at-the-slightest thing because the mods are away?

Do we really need keepers?
posted by the.carol.baxter.experience at 7:43 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'd prefer it if we used Metafilter as a place to talk about good and interesting things.

I think I see a shark rising out of the water.
posted by telstar at 7:43 PM on March 12, 2010

DID YOU SEE THAT FUCKIN' LADY GAGA VIDEO?
posted by gman at 7:44 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

floam: "My question, I guess, really, is: is the problem that Mainers aren't stupid and you shouldn't go around blasting them over your personal experiences there or is it a you shouldn't call groups of people stupid ever even if it's true thing?

I come at this knowing nothing about Maine, but definitely knowing about cities in the US with which I am intimately with familiar which sure as absolute heck have several magnitudes more stupid in them than ought to be acceptable."

dunkadunc: "The smart people, the people who could make Maine a neat, vibrant place, end up getting the hell out of their hometown and moving to a major city like Portland or out of state entirely. The people who stay behind are the ones they were fleeing, meaning the awful provincialness is, to a point, self-enforcing."

I think you need to remember the vitally important distinction between stupidity and ignorance. I don't think you want to try and argue the genetic potential of residents of any particular area, do you, or start the Maine eugenics drive? While it may be fair to say that in poor areas people are usually less educated, or that some cultures or subcultures can have destructive elements, but that doesn't mean that anyone who's a member of a particular culture or social class is stupid or intelligent, but they may be more or less informed about a given subject. Just like you and me.


kbanas: "The skin is so thin in this room that if I went up to one of you with a stick and I poked you odds are that I would puncture your skin like it was made of wet tissue paper.

Yikes"

I don't know how fair that is. Prejudice is ignorance, and while we're all guilty of ignorance, I think it's good that people address prejudice sometimes. This seems like an appropriate enough time.
posted by Red Loop at 7:47 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

who's saying what there?
posted by gman at 7:48 PM on March 12, 2010

Maine has a lot of stupid people in it. However, not everyone in Maine is stupid, and you are not among the stupid people. Are you happy?

Speaking of lazy, I'm not someone who is in, from, or has ever lived in Maine.

It was indeed very lazy of me to just assume that you had lived in Maine given your need to defend it from perceived slights. Can you make a list of past places of residence on your user page so I can avoid those foolish assumptions in the future?
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:51 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

Do we really need keepers?

I don't know, do we? I'm not the one saying that there's a "state full of people that are 48% inbred" or that "Maine is has an inordinate (for the Northeast) number of idiots in it".

So you tell me.
posted by rollbiz at 7:53 PM on March 12, 2010

Can you make a list of past places of residence on your user page so I can avoid those foolish assumptions in the future?

This won't be necessary, because I don't consider it my right to slander large groups of people based on the fact that I once lived somewhere.
posted by rollbiz at 7:55 PM on March 12, 2010

This won't be necessary, because I don't consider it my right to slander large groups of people based on the fact that I once lived somewhere.

That's beautiful. I will celebrate your feast once you're canonized.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:02 PM on March 12, 2010 [14 favorites]

I'm not the one saying that there's a "state full of people that are 48% inbred" or that "Maine is has an inordinate (for the Northeast) number of idiots in it".
I don't consider it my right to slander large groups of people based on the fact that I once lived somewhere.

You're not? You don't? (WE GET IT ALREADY.)
posted by sallybrown at 8:03 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

That's beautiful. I will celebrate your feast once you're canonized.

Not asking you to. Just please, stop shitting in threads because you think it's a birthright.

But if you're going to celebrate my feast, grey corned beef is the only one that matters FWIW.
posted by rollbiz at 8:05 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

I think what everyone is failing to remember is that 48% of all people are stupid. I mean, c'mon, go down to your local mall, and look around. See?

Actually, that number's a bit low. By definition, approximately 49.5% of the population is of below average intelligence. And 49.5% is above average. Consider yourself lucky that's there's an internet, so that no matter where you live, you can talk to the percentage of your choosing.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:06 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

Needs a Massholes tag.
posted by dhammond at 8:07 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

what's your point, sallybrown?
posted by rollbiz at 8:08 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Consider it added dhammond.
posted by rollbiz at 8:09 PM on March 12, 2010

(HAMBURGER)
posted by rollbiz at 8:09 PM on March 12, 2010

I get that it's annoying, but you could spin this another way and make an epic, link riddled comment about awesome things in Maine to combat the minor axe someone else is grinding, instead of taking a negative and making it even more negative than it was in the first place. I thought Mayor Curley's comment, while negative, was pretty interesting. So surely, if the naysayers are wrong, there has to be something equally as interesting but positive to respond with?
posted by saturnine at 8:14 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

comment about awesome things in Maine

Like Judd Nelson's birthplace?
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:21 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

So surely, if the naysayers are wrong, there has to be something equally as interesting but positive to respond with?

Is this now what you want the the standard to be for when people make generalizations about a group of people, also known as stereotyping...? Like if I say that black people can't swim because of their genetics, and you think I'm being racist, you should have to respond with a link-laden post of professional black swimmers or your point is invalid?

Is this Bizarro Metafilter?!?
posted by rollbiz at 8:23 PM on March 12, 2010

Okay, hate to break out the statistics again, but wouldn't it mean that 52% of Maine's population is not inbred and stupid? That's better than where I live. And far, far better than where I work. (Not mentioning where either of those places are, as someone will surely take offense.)

So there's one good thing about Maine.

(For the record, I used to live in New England, and I quite like Maine.)
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:24 PM on March 12, 2010

comment about awesome things in Maine

Like Judd Nelson's birthplace?

YES
posted by sallybrown at 8:26 PM on March 12, 2010

Metafilter seriously needs a remedial course in not feeding trolls.
posted by afu at 8:30 PM on March 12, 2010 [4 favorites]

Hypothesis: every state has (at least) one other state that it holds up as the epitome of sloth, venality, promiscuity and proclivity to incest, among other things.

Observation: this hypothesis scales up to regions, countries and continents as well as down to towns, neighborhoods, and families.
posted by yhbc at 8:31 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm not from Maine, never been to Maine, know nothing about Maine. But man, that thread about the lobster wars got ugly fast. It really did turn into a "Let's all talk about how sucky we think Maine is" derail. This is not just about Mayor Curley; I don't even think he was the most egregious example.

I think the FIAMO advice is good, and maybe we are all getting a little thin-skinned lately--but it's still bad form to go into a thread looking for a fight.
posted by misha at 8:38 PM on March 12, 2010

DID YOU SEE THAT FUCKIN' LADY GAGA VIDEO?

YES OMG HILARIOUS
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:38 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Hi! I'm looking for a fight!
posted by barrett caulk at 8:39 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oop. Sorry.
posted by barrett caulk at 8:39 PM on March 12, 2010

Wow. I'm a little bit blown away by people's reactions to this- it really seems like a clear cut case of prejudice, expressing itself in a way we've addressed before. I thought we'd had this conversation, and repeated it, and basically established that prejudice towards any group isn't OK, and that telling people to toughen up and get over it because you don't think it's worth getting upset over isn't a productive response. If this was about sexism or racism or homophobia, would you respond the same way?

The couple of comments in that thread maybe aren't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but they seem pretty clearly within the realm of comments that have been established as Not OK on Mefi, and I'm really surprised that this conversation is happening again and following such well-trodden paths. I hope the mods come back from SXSW soon, is what I'm saying.
posted by MadamM at 8:41 PM on March 12, 2010 [7 favorites]

If you're at a bar, why are you reading MeTa?

Sent from my iPod. In my bedroom, after I got back from the bar.
posted by shii at 8:42 PM on March 12, 2010

speaking of videos, most people are by now probably familiar with that Irish Country and Western "He Drinks Tequila" video featuring a young Steve Coogan. Well, my 16 month old daughter LOVES it. And not "loves it ironically"-- it appears to be an earnest appreciation. It shouldn't surprise anyone that she's half Mainer.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:48 PM on March 12, 2010 [4 favorites]

Wow, you are a complete douchebag.
posted by rollbiz at 8:51 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

it really seems like a clear cut case of prejudice, expressing itself in a way we've addressed before.

Except for that detail where the people accused of generalizing are part of the population being discussed and the people taking exception are largely not.

Sudanese refugee: Sudan's a total shithole.

Westerner: How dare you!

please note: this example employs hyperbole.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:56 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Mayor Curley's assertion of authority on all topics Maine has long been tiresome for me in Maine-related threads - and I just moved away after living there for several years (needless to say, that gives me no legitimacy when it comes to matters Maine, in his view). I grant that people with longer experience, especially lifelong experience, know a few things the rest of us might not. But the consistent loudness becomes a bit of a shame, only because this site is host to a lot of brilliant people from Maine with good things to say from a different perspective, and the vociferous asserions sort of either quash them or tar them as naive dilettantes - either way, the goal seems to be to have his opinion appear as the dominant and authoritative one on the subject of the entire, [massive] state. And that's too bad; the state is fascinating, interesting, unique, and diverse.
posted by Miko at 8:56 PM on March 12, 2010 [15 favorites]

If you're at a bar, why are you reading MeTa?

Metatalk is nuthin. I was at the Elite earlier tonight and a few guys were hunched around a laptop playing Farmville, next to the Ms. Pac Man machine.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:57 PM on March 12, 2010 [4 favorites]

Rollbiz, regardless of whether or not you have a valid point, baby-sitting the threat to the point where 20% of the comments thus far have been yours is generally not a good way to engender community discourse about touchy subjects.
posted by Phire at 8:58 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wow, you are a complete douchebag.

You're not. You're a winnah.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:00 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't want a clean, inoffensive, sanitized Metafilter where comments are policed or worse, self-censored for fear of provoking a callout. Sure, remove direct personal insults ("User X is a knob!"), but this "you were insensitive to my kind of people" crap is getting out of hand.

We've been down this road before, and it seems clear that the mods and many other members of this community, (myself included,) believe that some anti-minority GRAR comments deserve to be deleted in order to keep this place a thriving, welcoming and tolerant community. You're aware of this.

There has been ample precedent against the acceptance of LOLXTIANS and LOLTEXANS comments on MeFi. Why should briank's and Mayor Curley's comments should be judged by a different metric?
posted by zarq at 9:01 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Except for that detail where the people accused of generalizing are part of the population being discussed and the people taking exception are largely not.

Right, I forgot again. When you're from a place, or of an ethnicity, etc., you're free to talk shit about it!

"Lazy fucking Mexicans sure know the welfare line"...But I'm a Mexican and you're not, I can say that!

"Stupid n*ggers should stop having kids"...But I'm black, and you're not, I can say that!

"F*cking Southerners aren't good for anything but incest and Bible study"...But I'm a Southerner, I can say that!

Are you understanding the utter stupidity of your point yet?
posted by rollbiz at 9:02 PM on March 12, 2010

LOLTEXANS

Great point. Why isn't there a LOLTEXANS callout yet??? Get with it people! We can have a LOLOFFENDED trifecta!
posted by Big_B at 9:04 PM on March 12, 2010

Contra Orthoganality: Right to express opinion or not, I don't really see how making jokey one-liners about how dumb a certain group of people are really makes mefi a more vibrant, interesting place. I just can't see how it fits into a mentality of outrage and thought-policeyness, as opposed to irritation at old-fashioned thread-shitting.
posted by smoke at 9:12 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

Which is more offensive and mean: Mayor Curley saying "Maine is a state with a lot of stupid people in it", or all the people saying "you, Mayor Curley, personally, are a piece of shit and I hope Dracula rapes your puppy" or any of the mean shit you people are saying directly to him? My God, some people can be dicks.
posted by DecemberBoy at 9:13 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

Great point. Why isn't there a LOLTEXANS callout yet??? Get with it people! We can have a LOLOFFENDED trifecta!

I spent a large part of my childhood in Texas. Amarillo, specifically. We've just had a "Repent Amarillo" thread which could have easily managed to devolve into LOLTEXANS and LOLXTIANS but didn't.

Perhaps that's because the participants were mature adults? Able to present reasonable observations and parse the difference between the extremists and their targets? Personally, I found it nice to see a thread about Amarillo in which no one condemned the majority of its residents as inbred idiots.
posted by zarq at 9:13 PM on March 12, 2010

the goal seems to be to have his opinion appear as the dominant and authoritative one on the subject of the entire, [massive] state.

I don't want to start a pissing match with you because you make some valuable contributions, but you are absolutely the last person on this site who can criticize another for asserting that their viewpoint is authoritative. "No, no, you're all a bit wrong. This is how it really is," optionally followed a bit later with a polite "look, I already explained this. Why are you disagreeing with me?" But you are almost unfailingly polite, maybe just a bit peeved at people who just won't listen when you've already told them how the issue in question works.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:14 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

And FWIW, I did have some shitty personal experiences there. Being a Jewish kid in a small city filled with Baptists (and Catholics) whose anti-Jewish prejudices and pro-missionary tendencies were deeply ingrained and perpetuated wasn't always a pleasant experience.

But their actions aren't reason enough for me to condemn the town or state, either.
posted by zarq at 9:18 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

Are you understanding the utter stupidity of your point yet?

Stay classy. Are you drunk or something? You're getting more and more abusive. I'm pretty sure that you're getting progressively more hammered, actually.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:19 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Except for that detail where the people accused of generalizing are part of the population being discussed and the people taking exception are largely not.

See, Mayor_Curley, I kind of understand your point (although I don't agree with it), but you were still threadshitting, and you're still being an asshole to the other people from Maine who say "Hey that isn't fair, you're being an asshole."

And I'm starting to think you're drunk, or bored, or just entertaining yourself at the expense of MeFi sooo I'll be disengaging I think. Hopefully this will all get sorted out when it's no longer Friday night.
posted by MadamM at 9:20 PM on March 12, 2010

Stay classy. Are you drunk or something? You're getting more and more abusive. I'm pretty sure that you're getting progressively more hammered, actually.

Don't address my point or anything, though...Dude, you're a classic troll.
posted by rollbiz at 9:24 PM on March 12, 2010

One of the mods deleted the "inbred" comment.
posted by zarq at 9:25 PM on March 12, 2010

rollbiz:

"Is this now what you want the the standard to be for when people make generalizations about a group of people, also known as stereotyping...? Like if I say that black people can't swim because of their genetics, and you think I'm being racist, you should have to respond with a link-laden post of professional black swimmers or your point is invalid?

Is this Bizarro Metafilter?!?"

and then later, directed at Mayor Curley:

"Wow, you are a complete douchebag."

= "I don't want to do anything productive about this issue, but I do want to call Mefites who have crossed me douchebags because I somehow get a pass on the rules because I am so obviously right"

I was suggesting the equivalent of fighting "black people are no good thieving coons" with Frederick Douglass, not "but the black peoples! They can run fast! And they sure do clean a good floor".

Also, comparing regionalism (is there a correct term for this?) to racism is a bit inflammatory. Let the assholery stand on it's own merits.
posted by saturnine at 9:26 PM on March 12, 2010

Here's an awesome Seattle new wave/surf band you should all chill out to.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:27 PM on March 12, 2010

And I'm starting to think you're drunk, or bored, or just entertaining yourself at the expense of MeFi sooo I'll be disengaging I think.

"No one could disagree with my view unless they were drunk or maladjusted."

If I were drunk I'd be calling you names, rollbiz style.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:28 PM on March 12, 2010

Also, comparing regionalism (is there a correct term for this?) to racism is a bit inflammatory.

The point, you missed it entirely. I was asked to respond to absurd comments with positivity and factual links as a counterpoint, and I was pointing out the ridiculousness of it.
posted by rollbiz at 9:32 PM on March 12, 2010

Don't address my point or anything, though

There's no sense when you end it with a personal attack. I stopped arguing with drunks in my 20's.

Dude, you're a classic troll.

Well, I do disagree with you, which is your definition of troll. Keep going. Eventually you're going to be lit enough to get really sloppy and go thermonuclear, and it will be here for all time, preserved in amber. Do me a favor and just down what you've got left next to you and go open another. I can't wait all night for this.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:33 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

If I were drunk I'd be calling you names, rollbiz style.

Yeah, I definitely initiated that game, Mayor Curley. Remember when I called you an idiot, said you were ignorant, and that you didn't have the collective "wattage" of a broken nightlight?
posted by rollbiz at 9:35 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

I stopped arguing with drunks in my 20's.

Do you want to remind me why I'm now a drunk, other than that you don't agree with me?
posted by rollbiz at 9:36 PM on March 12, 2010

Wait, so I started that by calling you those names? You said that you've never lived in Maine and now you tell me you've served on a jury there? Because Maine jurists are the only people your quote fully applies to.

Or do you just feel such affinity with the people of Maine that an offhand comment about them (and me) gives you license to give me personal abuse?

Do you want to remind me why I'm now a drunk, other than that you don't agree with me?

You're drunk because you're becoming increasingly abrasive and ending your comments with ad hominem attacks. It'll be more obvious tomorrow when you re-read the thread.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:44 PM on March 12, 2010

Right. Well, I'll just close this up then.
posted by chinston at 9:48 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

This is currently my favorite YouTube video.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:49 PM on March 12, 2010

I don't really see how making jokey one-liners about how dumb a certain group of people are really makes mefi a more vibrant, interesting place.

It doesn't. It would be great if it happened less often.

Mayor Curley and rollbiz, take this elsewhere. This is really beyond what MeTa is useful for and you're both being boorish.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:50 PM on March 12, 2010 [9 favorites]

I lived in Maine for a year once. Well, Portland.
posted by chinston at 9:50 PM on March 12, 2010

I have never seen such a circlejerk of crybabies in my life. Someone should push you all down the stairs.
posted by sanka at 9:51 PM on March 12, 2010 [8 favorites]

Seriously, could you guys just give it a fucking rest?
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:53 PM on March 12, 2010 [5 favorites]

As I said to you, and the community, to begin with: I don't think that the fact that you were born in Maine gives you the right to act like an idiot and derail a post.

As for "you're becoming increasingly abrasive and ending your comments with ad hominem attacks", I'll just offer your own words from very early in this conversation:


Are you from Maine or something? Because I am.

"I'm calling my own mother a bitch and I think I should be allowed."

"But nice ad hominem, lazy asshole. (if you can do it, I can do it.)"
posted by rollbiz at 9:54 PM on March 12, 2010

I need to wait for my wife to get home from the airport before I can go to bed and this is more fun than watching the infomercial for the Shark steam mop. Come on! Leave it open just a bit longer? rollbiz is going to flip out and threaten me pretty soon. And that's way better than the creepy bald guy selling the Shark.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:58 PM on March 12, 2010

jessamyn: It doesn't. It would be great if it happened less often.

But it stands, it's still all there in that thread. So, OK, I guess I misunderstood Metatalk, because I thought that when a post was being derailed with "Stupid Mainer" bullshit and the mods were away, this would be the place to take that discussion.
posted by rollbiz at 9:59 PM on March 12, 2010

As for "you're becoming increasingly abrasive and ending your comments with ad hominem attacks", I'll just offer your own words from very early in this conversation:

You should look up the term. (hint: the last cited example is indeed an ad hominem attack, in response to one directed at me, as stated in the quote. the first two, cited in the context you present, are not close. But that makes it funnier.)
posted by Mayor Curley at 10:03 PM on March 12, 2010

You should look up the term.

Abrasive and/or ad hominem, was your charge against me. Don't turn your misunderstanding into me being stupid, or a drunk.

cortex: Seriously, could you guys just give it a fucking rest?

I'm done fighting the troll.
posted by rollbiz at 10:08 PM on March 12, 2010

Lights in the drive, I'm off to bed. Thanks everyone.

rollbiz, try to drink two pints of water before you turn in, maybe a multivitamin and, don't laugh, a Prilosec if you have one. Don't know why it prevents but it does. I'll still love you in the morning even if I'm mad at you.
posted by Mayor Curley at 10:08 PM on March 12, 2010

Wait, are people from Maine called "Mainers"? Because "Mainiacs" would be a lot cooler.
posted by dhammond at 10:11 PM on March 12, 2010 [5 favorites]

One night I was in this awesome bar in Bangor which looked like your parents' basement rec room but served pints of good beer for something ridiculous like $2 all the time. And there was a foosball table. I'm pretty good at foosball since I spent an unhealthy amount of time in college playing in my dorm. There were a couple of guys playing and I sidled over and asked if I could get next game with my girlfriend. They said sure. We started playing and Jesus we were just destroying them. It was like every shot was going in from my back line and my girlfriend, who was no foos slouch herself (more of an untutored genius) was on fire.

At one point I scored a point that was pretty trashy -- as in it bounced in pretty randomly but clearly had nothing to do with any conscious action on our part. And we took the point because that was just how we played. At this point I should mention that I was wearing a t-shirt with the name of some academic journal from Yale -- it wasn't even anything I belonged to but just a free shirt I had gotten from a friend and was randomly wearing. So one guy on the other side takes a good hard look at my shirt and then stares at the point I had just racked up and says, "Oh. I guess that's how you play by YALE rules," as if Yale rules also involve sacrificing virgins or kicking puppies. And I was like, how do I deserve this treatment? It would have been worse if I had taken pity and NOT taken the point and anyway that was just the house rule I played by.

So anyway, we proceeded to win pretty handily and I believe my girlfriend may have scored the final goal, which (I could have been imagining things) seemed to really rankle. And then we got out of that bar and I never again made the mistake of wearing any Ivy League paraphernalia I had acquired ever again in Maine. Because first it's just a game of foosball, and next thing you know you're waking up with a lobster head in your bed.
posted by chinston at 10:11 PM on March 12, 2010 [8 favorites]

Maine, at least rural Maine, is desperately poor. And this long-term poverty really develops a nasty mindset and some really ugly behavior.

I'll not stand by and see the lumpenproletariat disparaged in this way. Not while I sit reading Metafilter watching the petit bourgoisie displaying their own nasty mindset and ugly behaviour.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:11 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

But it stands, it's still all there in that thread.

Sure, you took the derail to MeTa, but if it just turns into the two of you yelling at each other that sort of needs to go to email. Do you need the community for any part of this, is I guess my question?

In the future, we'd like to see less of the Stupid Mainer bullshit, we've said so in this thread and if it comes up again we'll have a less tolerant stance on it because yes, it's tiresome.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:12 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

I loved living in Maine btw.
posted by chinston at 10:13 PM on March 12, 2010

Skinheads From Maine
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:16 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

Back to Maine generalizations. My theory, which describes a long history, is that dissatisfied people head to the nearest major highway and drive as far away as they can, and only stop when the road ends. With I-95 as the prototypical interstate highway, that leaves you at either Key West, or somewhere around Bangor.

People with military or other technical training, the reclusive, and just general hard asses chose North -- the easy going, undisciplined, hedonist types chose South. The South-headers made the jump to California, the Mainers dug in.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:31 PM on March 12, 2010 [2 favorites]

4chan has a very diverse population of users and it is quite offensive to generalize them all as garbage. I am quite saddened by this offensive use of generalizations.

This is true and I wont stand by for this gross slander.

There's also trash, refuse, litter, detritus and flotsam and an entirely diverse culture of onanists, ruiners, pedophiles, hebephiles, coprophagists, catamites, malthusianists, glue huffers, paint chip eaters, bestialists, debauchers, fart sniffers, meddlers, frottagers, gropecunts, wanksplashes and so much more.
posted by loquacious at 11:02 PM on March 12, 2010 [9 favorites]

Any chance I could use this thread to get in a few digs about people from Stoke-on-Trent? Realise most people reading here couldn't point to it on a map, but the long war against the clayheads and all their works must be fought on all fronts and in perpetuity.
posted by Abiezer at 11:06 PM on March 12, 2010 [6 favorites]

> There's also trash, refuse, litter, detritus and flotsam and an entirely diverse culture of onanists, ruiners, pedophiles, hebephiles, coprophagists, catamites, malthusianists, glue huffers, paint chip eaters, bestialists, debauchers, fart sniffers, meddlers, frottagers, gropecunts, wanksplashes and so much more.

You left out the ephebophiles, stump humpers, skidmark jockeys, booger eaters, halitosic quarantinees, and teeeeeenagers.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:20 PM on March 12, 2010 [3 favorites]

Mayor Curley, you were funnier handing out shirts at your cart in the mall. It's not all about Allen's and Oxycontin, not anymore.
posted by setanor at 11:26 PM on March 12, 2010

Rollbiz, at least the mayor has lived in maine. He's usually attacking places he's never visited. Your best just ignoring his whole act as I'm sure you've learned by now.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 11:34 PM on March 12, 2010

>> 750711

TOGTFO
posted by Deathalicious at 11:41 PM on March 12, 2010 [1 favorite]

Maine: At least it's not Belgium.
posted by stavrogin at 12:13 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Can we please stop mentioning lobsters? They have offensive connotations.
posted by flabdablet at 12:40 AM on March 13, 2010

Man, when did everyone around here get so gaddam fragile??? We used to get mocked with "ooooooo someone on the internet doesn't like me" and sent to bed without a cookie. Have the demographics shifted, or what?
posted by nevercalm at 12:59 AM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

> There's also trash, refuse, litter, detritus and flotsam and an entirely diverse culture of onanists, ruiners, pedophiles, hebephiles, coprophagists, catamites, malthusianists, glue huffers, paint chip eaters, bestialists, debauchers, fart sniffers, meddlers, frottagers, gropecunts, wanksplashes and so much more.

You left out the ephebophiles, stump humpers, skidmark jockeys, booger eaters, halitosic quarantinees, and teeeeeenagers.

Wait...is all of 4chan that bad? I never go there, but I always thought it was just /b/
posted by juv3nal at 1:29 AM on March 13, 2010

Abiezer: "Any chance I could use this thread to get in a few digs about people from Stoke-on-Trent? Realise most people reading here couldn't point to it on a map, but the long war against the clayheads and all their works must be fought on all fronts and in perpetuity"

Man, one of my co-workers travels in from Stoke every day. It's an unneccesarily long commute that is sucking years of her life away, but she claims it's worth it because she has a much larger house in Stoke than she would ever be able to afford here. Which, yes, she does have a nice house, but it's in fucking Stoke.

[NOT POTTERIES-IST]

(Well, okay, a bit potteries-ist, but not to the point where I'd refuse a staffy oatcake. Mmmmm, oatcakes. Om nom nom)
posted by the latin mouse at 1:44 AM on March 13, 2010

We've been down this road before, and it seems clear that the mods and many other members of this community, (myself included,) believe that some anti-minority GRAR comments deserve to be deleted in order to keep this place a thriving, welcoming and tolerant community. You're aware of this.

There has been ample precedent against the acceptance of LOLXTIANS and LOLTEXANS comments on MeFi. Why should briank's and Mayor Curley's comments should be judged by a different metric?

Because deciding to make Texans, of all people, a Mefi "protected class" was a bad precedent, as we now see as rollbiz applies for "protected class" status for Mainers.

Texans (and Mainers) can protect themselves. They are not victims of hate crimes directed at Texans or Mainers; they are not subject to a long history of invidious discrimination; their ancestors were not transported here in chains, they were not regularly lynched or pogromed, they were never restricted from marrying whom they would.

A stinging insult against your state isn't anything like the day in, day out insults and disadvantages and discrimination experienced by people in real protected classes, and frankly it just looks like absurd white male heterosexual privilege to have the audacity to complain that "he said Mainers are the stoopid, so now I'm Bangor's Emmet Till!"

Grow a skin, and get over it.
posted by orthogonality at 1:51 AM on March 13, 2010 [47 favorites]

They make those tasty oatcakes to trap you, the latin mouse; just as they use their cheery and welcoming demeanour to sucker you into thinking they're happy-go-lucky, salt of the earth types. All part of their dark and terrible scheme; don't be fooled.
posted by Abiezer at 2:04 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

As a California surfer, I came to the UK and saw a town with 'stoke on' in its name. Big bummer of a misnomer, that is.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:07 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Abiezer, tell me you're not a Vale man?
posted by patricio at 3:23 AM on March 13, 2010

It's worse than that, patricio - Crewe Alexandra. We see them as rivals and they barely remember we exist :D
posted by Abiezer at 4:16 AM on March 13, 2010

A stinging insult against your state isn't anything like the day in, day out insults and disadvantages and discrimination experienced by people in real protected classes, and frankly it just looks like absurd white male heterosexual privilege to have the audacity to complain that "he said Mainers are the stoopid, so now I'm Bangor's Emmet Till!"

I realize that not everyone has a desire to be this way, but I've always been one to subscribe to the view that in public life one should "be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you produce." That's not to say that one should act like a politician and avoid saying anything controversial or meaningful ever.

It's a reminder that all communication has a context, and all communication has an intended audience. Unfortunately, sometimes wires get crossed. The common thread in all of these callouts is that the person getting called out has a certain tonedeafness to the disposition of their intended audience.

Words by themselves mean almost nothing. Context and audience are everything. The way I would talk to my conservative mother about politics is different from the way I would talk to my liberal father about politics. The way I would talk to Metafilter about politics is not the way I would talk to LGF about politics. That's because I believe in communication with a purpose: I discuss my opinions both to persuade others to my view and to have my views and analytical prowess sharpened.

An absolutist view of communication, the idea that because some words in some contexts are acceptable some of the time, that all words are acceptable in all contexts all the time, is the root cause of callout posts like this. In an objective sense, of course it's true and people can say whatever they want whenever they want. But realistically, if you believe that communication and language should mean something and be purposeful, the key is reading your audience and the context of your potential words.

It's not that you should change the content of your opinion to fit in. It's changing the content of your sentences so that your original opinion is received by your audience in a way that doesn't automatically trigger people's irrational ego defense mechanisms.

Otherwise you're just pissing into the wind. That's why it's easier in general to play fast and loose with liberal views here on Metafilter but conservative viewpoints receive considerably more scrutiny. It's just the audience. It's not fair or rational, but human psychology isn't fair or rational. An understanding of that is key to having successful and informative conversations about contentious topics.
posted by anifinder at 4:31 AM on March 13, 2010 [15 favorites]

i like how curley has staked out being the Carlos Mencia of Maine, and how him and a bunch of other people are all "Insipid group attacks? What's the problem? Personal attacks? OH NOES A TRAGEDARY" *weepy eyes*

A stinging insult against your state isn't anything like the day in, day out insults and disadvantages and discrimination experienced by people in real protected classes, and frankly it just looks like absurd white male heterosexual privilege to have the audacity to complain that "he said Mainers are the stoopid, so now I'm Bangor's Emmet Till!"

i wanna read the thread you're responding too, must be interesting because if youre just reading you sound just like a big crybaby
posted by Snyder at 5:32 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wait, are people from Maine called "Mainers"? Because "Mainiacs" would be a lot cooler.

It would be a lot cooler, except that it tends to be the default Tourist Funhole name given to zany ice-cream shops, t-shirt vending stores, and goodtime drinking establishments.

Sorry I got involved; there was no need for me to pile on a callout that's excessively personal, not really issue-based.
posted by Miko at 7:12 AM on March 13, 2010

It says something really positive about the geographic knowlege of people from Europe and Canada that they don't get incredibly bored and pissed off at us every time we have an idiosyncratic conversation about which one of our 50 subdivisions is full of idiots.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 7:39 AM on March 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

Can someone write a script that filters out any comment in which someone is called a [cry]baby for me? TIA
posted by theredpen at 7:58 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't know javascript, but I've managed to implant a network of floaters in my right eyeball that does about the same thing. It took a while, but sympathetic processing finally kicked in and now I can see it in both eyes.
posted by carsonb at 8:07 AM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

but this "you were insensitive to my kind of people" crap is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand is the "LOL[groupofpeople]" stuff. Boring, tired, brings nothing of substance to the table and 99% of it isn't even funny, clever or original. Maybe the precious snowflakes who think their observations are so valuable and original are the ones who need to grow a thicker skin.
posted by rtha at 8:11 AM on March 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

I dunno, I'm sorta torn about this one. I get tired of all the LOLTEXAS stuff because its so common and cheap and dull around here, but I'm not sure the occasional anti-Maine sentiment is all that damaging to the site. (I'm from the Ozarks, myself, and no stranger to my home region being ill-thought-of). Mayor Curely's comments were dumb, but they're so nakedly personal that they're really more sad than offensive. If, as indicated above, he does this often then perhaps the callout was justified, just to let him know his issues are showing, but I'm not sure its a precedent-setting case.
posted by Bookhouse at 8:34 AM on March 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm from Maine, and I think Mayor Curley's comment was a bit over-the-line, although obviously hyperbolic. And we certainly don't have a monopoly on provincial lunkheads.

But we do have a lot of them, and it's mainly due to how crappy the economy up here is.
Maine, at least rural Maine, is desperately poor. And this long-term poverty really develops a nasty mindset and some really ugly behavior- to the point where we have road signs telling you not to beat your wife in Deer Isle, a major lobstering center.

The smart people, the people who could make Maine a neat, vibrant place, end up getting the hell out of their hometown and moving to a major city like Portland or out of state entirely. The people who stay behind are the ones they were fleeing, meaning the awful provincialness is, to a point, self-enforcing.
posted by dunkadunc at 7:03 PM on March 12 [9 favorites -] [!]

You took the words right out of my mouth, dunk.

I'm from Maine as well, and can bash it with the best of them, believe me. Not to be fighty, but seriously, Mayor Curley, the chip on your shoulder about Maine is so big I can see it from here. Why don't you come back to Maine and put your money where your mouth is?
posted by Grlnxtdr at 8:37 AM on March 13, 2010

So Maine can only be criticized by people who are currently living in it, not people who moved away.
posted by smackfu at 8:51 AM on March 13, 2010

I don't even know why I responded.

This may be the worst MetaTalk thread ever.

I mean, fucking Maine!
posted by smackfu at 8:53 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I have more opinions about Maine than you can possibly imagine.
posted by Babblesort at 8:55 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I strongly disagree with this desire to shift Metafilter into a nice-only zone. Fuck that.
posted by tula at 8:59 AM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

You know, considering the proximity, I'd've thought Maine's reaction to insult would be more like Canada's: "Yay! Someone's talking about us!"
posted by Sys Rq at 9:07 AM on March 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

I think we all might need a little bit of this.
posted by Miko at 9:09 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

People call my hometown "the mistake on the lake." I'm pleased about it, it keeps out all the jerks who don't know any better and who'd drive up the housing costs and stuff if they moved here en masse. It's nice here, even if some people are really freaking oversensitive about outsiders making fun of us. Don't get me wrong, I miss living in Boston and I still want to move to Maine someday (I have family there, and love it, warts and all), but I'd rather the world think Cleveland sucks. It works out in our favor, if you ask me.

(By the way, have any of you read The Beans of Egypt, Maine? The author's gone out and formed a militia).

I shook my head a bit at dunkadunc noting the 'don't beat your wife' signs. How bad does the problem have to be for a town to post something like that, you know? But: And we certainly don't have a monopoly on provincial lunkheads. But we do have a lot of them, and it's mainly due to how crappy the economy up here is. Maine, at least rural Maine, is desperately poor. = very true.

It is what it is, and our own value judgments color what we think about it. I know a lot of Mainers who would fall into Mayor Curley's not-the-brightest-bulb category, the kind of guys who WOULD acquit someone for wearing white gloves during hunting season. And ok, they're not going to win a Nobel Prize for physics any time soon, but damn, they can be really ingenious in other ways -- my cousin's snowmobiling friends all put MacGyver to shame. Our society doesn't assign a lot of value to that kind of talent, but it is talent. In the aftermath of some giant physical disaster, believe me, you want THOSE guys on your side, not a computer programmer.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:11 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

And yet another reason SXSW sucks
posted by Mick at 9:16 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Maine: the aftermath of some giant physical disaster
posted by Sys Rq at 9:17 AM on March 13, 2010

> I need to wait for my wife to get home from the airport before I can go to bed and this is more fun than watching the infomercial for the Shark steam mop. Come on! Leave it open just a bit longer?

See, this is what is normally thought of as troll behavior. The Mayor loves nothing better than to drop some turd of a comment, not bad enough to get him banned but enough to really rile people, and then sit back and enjoy the fun.

For all those "cut him some slack, he's just being hyperbolic about his own people" folks: he has every right to be hyperbolic about his own people, but not so much a right to shit in MeFi threads and then take on all comers, which is his regular practice. Or rather, I guess he has a right to, but it isn't much fun for anyone else, especially the mods, and I wish he'd save it for his local bar.
posted by languagehat at 9:34 AM on March 13, 2010 [11 favorites]

The really odd thing is that the Mayor is a very ordinary, affable fellow when you do meet him in a local bar. Internet, (semi)anonymity, etc.
posted by yhbc at 9:41 AM on March 13, 2010

Now, now, Sys Rq.

By the way, the "cantankerous Mainer" stereotype is not a modern invention. Read (one of my favorite books): The Lobster Coast: Rebels, Rusticators, and the Struggle for a Forgotten Frontier, and you'll know why. One of the major landowners thought it would be a bright idea to bring over a bunch of Scots-Irish settlers (yeaaaaah...not to get back into another Stereotype War, but let's remember where else Scots-Irish culture flourished in this country), and surprise surprise, they proceeded to rebel against just about everything, and tell everyone in authority that they could eat a bag of dicks, and so on and so forth.

Maine's history should be really fascinating to anyone who suffered through the Standard Early American History regimen in our crap public schools -- you know, let's trace our hand on construction paper and make a turkey at Thanksgiving, and talk about Pilgrims, and Plymouth This, Plymouth That, religious freedom blah blah -- there was a lot more interesting stuff going on up north in what is now Maine.

During the "Starvation Time," Winthrop was sent north to beg for fish and provisions from the English ships stationed there, without which the Massachusetts settlement might've gone the way of Jamestown. Major English landowners basically divvied up what eventually became some of the larger counties in Maine like private fiefdoms (and thought those Scots-Irish would come over and be good little obedient serfs...ha!).

In short: History Book Dork highly recommends The Lobster Coast.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:41 AM on March 13, 2010 [9 favorites]

Some people act like they've never used the internet before. A lot of it is degrading, offensive babble. Trying to make a case out of some offhand comments about Maine is, I'm sorry to say, a huge, huge waste of time. A huge waste of time in which I just read every comment, JUST so that I could be sure it was a huge waste of time.

And it was. Really folks? People are assholes sometimes. If this was a real life situation and the comments were said in person you'd most likely let it go and move on, soon forgetting. This is honestly the equivalent of taking somebody to court for slander/libel because of something stupid they said. You made a MeTa, making it a public case, demanding justice! The problem is, to a lot of people, that "justice" just makes you look like a touchy little snowflake.
posted by deacon_blues at 9:43 AM on March 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

So I'm coming back with a cooler head to say a couple of things:

First, I stand by the fact that I think the comments made in the post were completely out of line. For the record, Mayor Curley wasn't the only offender and his comment wasn't even the worst of them to me, but there was an element of bad faith discussion and backslapping that I believed was quickly taking over the thread. The title I used for this post was not his comment and shouldn't be attributed to him.

Second, I realize that there is validity to the "Do we need a Metatalk thread for every poorly worded comment" argument some people have made. Part of the reason that I chose to make one is that I knew the mods wouldn't be getting to the flags anytime soon because of SXSW, and I wanted there to be a place where the "HUHUHMAINESUX" stuff could go besides in that post, because there was some interesting discussion going on there about the case and the history of the Lobster Wars in general.

Third, I've reread the discussion here and it's pretty apparent to me that despite my early attempts not to do so, I fed the troll and I got into a very me vs. everyone who disagrees with me mindset. I was sort of taken aback by some of the "yeah, that guy's a jerk, deal with it, he's funny" response, and I didn't react well to it. There's been a lot of discussion lately about not reacting to boorishness with boorishness, and I failed that test. I apologize for that.

I've been here since 2006 and I've averaged just over one post a year on the Grey, and only one other was a callout. So, I don't do this a lot, and perhaps I'm not the best at doing it.

Anyway, there you go.
posted by rollbiz at 9:50 AM on March 13, 2010 [7 favorites]

Huh. I'm averaging just under a post a year on the Grey. I think I don't get worked up enough about stuff.
posted by graventy at 10:08 AM on March 13, 2010

And now, the oral sex!
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 10:16 AM on March 13, 2010

Any chance I could use this thread to get in a few digs about people from Stoke-on-Trent? Realise most people reading here couldn't point to it on a map, but the long war against the clayheads and all their works must be fought on all fronts and in perpetuity.

I'm not from Stoke, never been to Stoke, never even been to England. However, the Potters are my team. It is my deepest desire to go to the Britannia to see a game.

A friend from Wales who I know in New York has a friend who lives in Stoke. I asked my friend if he could ask his friend to buy me a Stoke City scarf. Apparently this friend of a friend, is a huge Port Vale fan and could not bring himself to buy the scarf. So, he made his mother do it.

I used to have a Stoke baseball cap like the one Tony Pulis wears but someone stole it. Pulisis the only manager that dresses like he's managing a NASCAR race and I love him for it.
posted by josher71 at 10:28 AM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's a well know fact that Ontarians are completely delusional about their cats.
posted by gman at 10:30 AM on March 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

In that vein, I apologize to rollbiz for trolling him in this thread. I thought that the Metatalk thread and the indignation in it was so over the top that the most interesting way to deal with it was to turn it into a lake of molten shit. Clearly, a lot of people rightly take strong exception to that approach. At the time it looked to me like my other options were to apologize for what I still feel is an accurate observation about the state in question, or to stay away and let people people discuss my attitude while falsely attributing the most incendiary comment to me. In retrospect I should have just typed a response restating my position in a more tactful manner and reminded readers that I actually made just one comment.

That said: I have direct, intensely personal experience with the State of Maine and many of the people taking exception do not. I don't exactly understand why my original comment was such a molotov cocktail-- I cited precedent demonstrating that the people of Maine are fine with acquitting people who commit crimes in the course of participating in traditional occupations. And my attitude towards everyone who is From Away telling me that my strong opinion of distaste for the place is wrong has a lot in common with a stereotypical Vietnam combat vet-- "YOU DON'T KNOW! YOU WEREN'T THERE, MAN!"

There is absolutely a reason that people who were raised there and subsequently left (like briank and myself). If you are from the place and think I'm an asshole for expressing my contempt, it is absolutely valid for you to feel that way just as I wonder why you'd want to defend it. If you have only a passing acquaintance with it (or even none at all), you don't have any right to take exception. Making analogies to contempt for actual minorities isn't helpful-- I'm talking about a region and how that region shapes its people and feeds their minds, not about the innate qualities of any group. A child born in Maine and not raised there would be indistinguishable from a child born and raised in the new place.
posted by Mayor Curley at 10:38 AM on March 13, 2010 [7 favorites]

I thought that the Metatalk thread and the indignation in it was so over the top that the most interesting way to deal with it was to turn it into a lake of molten shit.

Don't do that again, please.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:43 AM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

I'm pretty sure I've seen several comments here on MeFi that made fun of Norwegians in a stereotypical kind of way. My reaction:" Heh, that's mildly amusing."

I've made fun of Swedes and Danes and Americans and Brits (and Norwegians). I would've been extremely shocked if any member of those nationalities called me out on MeTa.

Now, admittedly I've never lived in the US, but my impression is not that Maine has historically been a horribly mistreated state, a state whose citizens have been subjected to systematic abuse and repression. Are we overreacting a bit here?
posted by Dumsnill at 10:50 AM on March 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

During the "Starvation Time"...

And for those who are not aware: in 1607 Maine was established by the Plymouth Company as the short-lived Popham Colony. Maine was then annexed to the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1652. Maine became its own state in 1820.
posted by ericb at 10:58 AM on March 13, 2010

Mayor Curley: "Making analogies to contempt for actual minorities isn't helpful-- I'm talking about a region and how that region shapes its people and feeds their minds, not about the innate qualities of any group."

I've heard there are a lot of gypsies in Maine. Discuss.
posted by meehawl at 11:11 AM on March 13, 2010

Dumsnill: "Now, admittedly I've never lived in the US, but my impression is not that Maine has historically been a horribly mistreated state, a state whose citizens have been subjected to systematic abuse and repression. Are we overreacting a bit here?"

It might just be bad textbooks, but most of us were taught from a young age about how awful Maine is.
posted by graventy at 11:28 AM on March 13, 2010

If you have only a passing acquaintance with it (or even none at all), you don't have any right to take exception.

This doesn't seem true. I think what I don't like is this shibboleth idea, that unless one has exactly the same duration and kind of experience that you do with the place, their comments are necessarily less valid than yours. That just doesn't make sense. Certainly you've got one perspective on a region and its culture, one that is well informed. But other perspectives exist and are valid. Also, your intimate knowledge of a community doesn't make anything you wish to say about that community automatically true. Even someone less familiar can logically take exception to inaccurate statements.
posted by Miko at 11:29 AM on March 13, 2010

So, hey, now that I've read the thread in question, I pretty much have to agree 100% with this:

I think reminding people of the existence of Karen Woods and Maine's history of "why bother having a trial?" added more to the discussion than your "Mayor Curley, you suck."

Flag it and move on, rollbiz. Also:

Note: Help maintain a healthy, respectful discussion by focusing comments on the issues, topics, and facts at hand—not at other members of the site.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:41 AM on March 13, 2010

(Yes, the second point also applies to MC's response that I agreed with 100%. Whatever!)
posted by Sys Rq at 11:43 AM on March 13, 2010

Back in the day, at times like this, Mom would kick us out of the house and lock the door. If we were going to kill each other over something silly, fine, but there was no reason she had to listen to it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:05 PM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Even someone less familiar can logically take exception to inaccurate statements.

Except that the only logic employed to question my statements' accuracy was mostly "all generalizations are bad." The most vocal opponents don't know Maine at all and were taking exception based on some personal code of conduct where you don't say things like that, not any particular knowledge. It's the same line of reasoning that a religious fundamentalist uses: "if that statement were true, it would conflict with my neatly tied beliefs. Therefore it is not true."

I know that you spent some time in very southern, very coastal Maine and I'm sure it was very nice. I could be pretty happy there. But that's not what the state is about. Go to Sabattus or somewhere and tell people that you know a lot about the state because you lived in Kennebunk. Can you guess what the reaction will be?
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:14 PM on March 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Having been to the cultural melting pot of Kennebunk two autumns ago, I can say with absolute certainty that it's a prerequisite for residents to drape a tied argyle sweater over their shoulders whilst walking their purebred Golden Retrievers.
posted by gman at 12:25 PM on March 13, 2010

Coming to this thread late, and I don't want to start another argument, but I have to take issue with a final generalization of Mayor Curley's:

There is absolutely a reason that people who were raised there and subsequently left (like briank and myself).

I'm also someone who was raised there (right near the location of the original Popham Colony, in fact) and left, and I would love to move back. I left because I had educational goals that couldn't be realized in the state, and that's why I'm still living elsewhere. But I know that there's a large population of young people who'd love to move back to Maine, given a chance. We loved living there, and we all felt that it was important for us to leave for a while, but we feel strongly that we'll move back someday. I have found this attitude both among my friends from high school (many of whom moved away, some of whom have already moved back), and among Mainers I've met while living elsewhere. We love that place, and there were plenty of reasons that we had to leave, but that doesn't mean we won't be back.

Mayor Curley's "I'm the only one who knows about Maine" attitude reminds me of a story my stepdad tells about a writing class he once took where they read The Beans of Egypt Maine. The teacher, who of course, was from Maine, decried the book as having been written from someone who wasn't familiar with the culture, couldn't possibly know the place, and was exaggerating everything. Carolyn Chute, as noted above, is Maine to the core (though she's not half so crazy-looking as that picture makes her seem, and is a warm and wonderful woman who was incredibly kind to me when I was a child). Though Mayor Curley's argument is in direct opposition to the one that writing teacher was making, their inability to understand that other people might reasonably and correctly see their state in another way is incredibly problematic.

I speak for myself when I say that I love Maine. It wouldn't bother me if Mayor Curley was simply speaking for himself and saying that he hates Maine. But implying that Maine is objectively awful and full of stupid people, and that anyone who knows the state would agree? That's just ridiculous.
posted by dizziest at 12:26 PM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

Except that Kennebunk is part of the state. It's not the whole state, but neither is Sabattus. Do you not see how your perspective is just as limited as everyone else's? You have a specific range of experience with a specific community. To draw an analogy: I've lived in Manhattan for years, and it's as diverse and liberal as can be. Upstate, however, it's a great deal more conservative -- there are farms, even! -- and thus, we don't have things like gay marriage. That doesn't mean, however, that Albany isn't the "real" New York or that the East Village simply isn't part of the state. Rather, the state is made up of many people: some conservative, some liberal. Some are stupid, some are not. The fact that you grew up around people you dislike in Maine continues to mean one thing: you dislike the people you met in Maine. Your continued desire to speak as if you run the state Census Bureau is grating. Cut it out.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 12:29 PM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, I'm not attempting to equate "stupid" with either liberal or conservative. Intelligence (or lack thereof) is likely distributed equally among both groups.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 12:31 PM on March 13, 2010

Anifinder, I wanted to say that your comment was the sole redeeming aspect of this thread. I'm amazed that you've reached this level of insight at 21; I suspect, and hope, that you will go far in life because of it.

That aside, yes people on Metafilter, and everywhere else, need to learn to grow thicker skin. They're just words, and encouraging freedom of expression - all expression - on this site and elsewhere is of greater value than your being protected from opinions and ideas you dislike. When we as individuals and as a group fail to step back and appreciate the cosmic insignificance of text on a website, we are contributing to increased limitation on the speech and thoughts permitted within a de facto public forum. This is not something to embrace.

For those who are unable to perform that crucial task of placing things they find offensive in context, the following may assist you: on average, one person dies of starvation every second of every day of your entire life, and you're sitting here spending those seconds arguing about whether it's offensive to stereotype people from Maine as idiots. On average, one child dies of starvation every five seconds, and I'm sitting here castigating you for doing so.

The only justification for my actions is my hope that this perspective will encourage some of you to go and do something - anything at all - more meaningful with your seconds.
posted by Ryvar at 12:36 PM on March 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Uh, gman, that link... Delusional, or just really goddamn generous? That's it. I'm moving to Ontario.

Alright weird. First off, the ad was taken down - it wasn't quite a hairless cat, but an anorexic one with small patches of hair everywhere. The caption read something like: 'Free Beautiful Cat'. Having said that, the link you sent of the person asking for a free cat was put up by the same dude offering the heinous one. Like a trade-up. See, Ontarians are horrible people.
posted by gman at 12:44 PM on March 13, 2010

Carlos Mencia of Maine

He's from Maine, too?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:00 PM on March 13, 2010

ARGHGAGGGHGGHGH
posted by bam at 1:06 PM on March 13, 2010

BAM
posted by gman at 1:09 PM on March 13, 2010

I just spent a while trying to figure out how to imagine Maine in terms familiar to me. It doesn't match perfectly with any Californian metro area I know well in terms of population. It's about the same as Ventura, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo Counties put together, and four times the area. That's the region of CA where I've spent most of my life. I don't have a really strong opinion about the analogue familiar to me, it turns out. Good food, nice beaches. Working class, agricultural, tourism, centrist. The strawberries all come from here, pretty much. Strawberries :: Lobstahs. I wonder what would be able to make me have a hate-on for it like the mad Mainers here have for their back-homes.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:31 PM on March 13, 2010

The next one was supposed to be CRASH.
posted by gman at 1:34 PM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm reminded of the thread a just a few ago where he shit on both Indianapolis and New Orleans, apparently dumbfounded that they could have art museums.

The site is poorer for his continued presence.
posted by GeekAnimator at 1:59 PM on March 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

...the kind of guys who WOULD acquit someone for wearing white gloves during hunting season.

Well, it's good that there are guys like that, since being found guilty of wearing those gloves at that time seems to carry the death penalty.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:06 PM on March 13, 2010

I've lived in Maine for 15 years now, pretty close to the area the Mayor's from, if I remember correctly. And I remember being a bit shocked about some attitudes when I first moved here -- the story of the woman being shot in her backyard being one of them, the idea that hunting takes precedence over people. And yet I love it here, and I think there's something more to the place than just the things the Mayor complains about. Myself, I come from an area that is often made fun of on Mefi: The South. And I ran into a lot of people there that I would consider ignorant, well, shitkickers tends to be the word I use, but you can substitute your own. Nevertheless, I think it's wrong to completely write off a place where I'm from, that shaped me whether I like it or not. It sounds to me like the Mayor's doing that, and it makes me a little sad, because I also see things here in Maine that are wonderful. If nothing else, I think my experiences in the south and northern New England have made me believe that there are pockets of ignorance and cruelty everywhere.

As for Matinicus Island, it's extraordinarily beautiful, one of my favorite places on the planet, with some wonderful people, and it's also a place where the residents very much dislike being told what to do by anyone, and react accordingly. I don't think it's the only place in the country like that, and it's sad that only that second facet of it is what's made the Huffington Post.
posted by JanetLand at 2:15 PM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I left because I had educational goals that couldn't be realized in the state, and that's why I'm still living elsewhere. But I know that there's a large population of young people who'd love to move back to Maine, given a chance.

"given a chance"? What's stopping you. You rent a truck, fill it with your stuff and drive back. So I suspect "given a chance" means "find the elusive decent job in my field there." So you had to leave to get an education and you can't move back because you wouldn't be able to support yourself. You're essentially getting wistful about Moldova.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:17 PM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

The only justification for my actions is my hope that this perspective will encourage some of you to go and do something - anything at all - more meaningful with your seconds.

you first
posted by jammy at 2:20 PM on March 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think it's wrong to completely write off a place where I'm from, that shaped me whether I like it or not. It sounds to me like the Mayor's doing that, and it makes me a little sad, because I also see things here in Maine that are wonderful.

I'd made peace with my Maine experience until the repeal of marriage equality. That really slapped me in the face and made me ashamed of where I came from in a way that I hadn't felt before.

It's about what you can tolerate. If you're living the way you want and you're happy there, that's what matters. There are a LOT of mainers here that I respect very deeply and I'll bet that they're disgusted with me. But I think I'm right to deeply resent the Karen Woods and Lobster Wars-style incidents and the gay hate and I still stand by my comment in the original thread.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:28 PM on March 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

Trust me, I do understand how much that repeal hurt; I was in high school during the first two votes on adding language about sexual orientation to the statewide anti-discrimination laws, and I spent many, many hours volunteering for those campaigns, leafleting and phone-banking and knocking on doors. I had some wonderful conversations with strangers, and I also had some incredibly painful, nasty interactions with closed-minded bigots. The process was difficult and rewarding and the polls were always close enough that we felt we had a chance. In the end, we lost. And it was awful.

And this most recent repeal was awful, too. But I don't think it means that Maine is a bad place; I think it means that there's still work to be done, and that Maine is drawing ever closer to being a place where those initiatives can be successful. Which is pretty fucking fantastic.

In closing, I'll say that of course you're right to resent those incidents. I just don't think it's fair to act as though those incidents are representative of the state as a whole.

(As for not being able to find a job in my field, you're close, but not exactly right. I'm a grad student. I'll be applying for jobs in Maine just as soon as I'm applying for jobs again. I don't think that makes my love for the state any less valid.)
posted by dizziest at 3:38 PM on March 13, 2010

If you're at a bar, why are you reading MeTa?

I alternate between Meta and Lady Gaga videos because the iPhone is amazing and addicting and sometimes people are going on and on about stupid work stuff and you just want to have a beer and watch some cigarette glasses and flameouts.

I'm also at bars a lot but that's irrelevant.
posted by jnaps at 3:39 PM on March 13, 2010

If this were a Stephen King story set in Castle Rock, Mayor Curley would be Larry Underwood and rollbiz would be Stu Redman
posted by KokuRyu at 4:14 PM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

And I would be a Low Man in a Yellow Coat come to kidnap a strangely precocious and sensitive little boy for the glory of the Crimson King. mathowie would be Steven King.

abbalah-doon
posted by Rock Steady at 4:25 PM on March 13, 2010

That said: I have direct, intensely personal experience with the State of Maine and many of the people taking exception do not.

so when you talk shit about places you've never been to, is that just more of your self-declared expertise on a subject, or is it more like you being a dick?
posted by Snyder at 4:33 PM on March 13, 2010

mathowie would be Steven King

You do know we're all just figments of Matt's imagination?
posted by marxchivist at 4:34 PM on March 13, 2010

Snyder: “Carlos Mencia of Maine”

Blazecock Pileon: “He's from Maine, too?”

Hey now. I thought we agreed that we weren't going to say any more awful things about Maine.
posted by koeselitz at 4:38 PM on March 13, 2010

While we're on the topic, don't forget to set your clock for Daylight Saving Time tonight, if you live in a place that does that.

Now Metafilter is even more of a timesuck. Thanks a lot!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:00 PM on March 13, 2010

Oh wait Maine. No, never mind. I don't have any opinions about Maine.
posted by Babblesort at 5:32 PM on March 13, 2010

It is my deepest desire to go to the Britannia to see a game.
You could replicate the experience nearer where you live by releasing eleven blindfold donkeys in a cowshed (preferably one owned by the local authorities for greater verisimilitude) then punting a ball really far but somewhat aimlessly in the general direction of an imagined opposition goalmouth for ninety minutes.
No need to head-butt the James Beattie-a-like beastie at full time; true, it would make it all more Stoke-ish, but I can't advocate cruelty to animals, even if they do question your managerial competence.
posted by Abiezer at 6:06 PM on March 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

I'm reminded of the thread a just a few ago where he shit on both Indianapolis and New Orleans, apparently dumbfounded that they could have art museums.

A few comments later in that same thread, he said: "I'm totally kidding. I've heard that New Orleans is a wonderful place. If I decided to visit the South, it's the first place that I'd go."

Not exactly a spittle-flecked rant....
posted by zarq at 9:33 PM on March 13, 2010

No, never mind. I don't have any opinions about Maine.

Well, I DO mind. It is unacceptable for you to not have any opinions about Maine. One of its major reasons for existence is to generate opinions about itself. If nothing else, you could consider its Senators. Surely, you have an opinion about them.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:25 AM on March 14, 2010

Wow. There are currently three huge "you can't say that about X; it's offensive" threads on the Metatalk front page right now.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:14 AM on March 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

It might just be bad textbooks, but most of us were taught from a young age about how awful Maine is.

What? That's not my experience at all. Of course, we are taught (in FL) very stereotypical things about Maine. It's all, "They are tough, grizzled men who live in harsh weather. You get lobsters from there."

That's probably the extent of it, because we really don't even get into geography much in school any more. I used to think I sucked at maps because my world geography was terrible but I really had to supplement my kids' education when they couldn't even name the states in the U.S. We had these wooden puzzles where each state was a piece, and it was fun to race and put them in. I remember being surprised myself about where the Dakotas ended up. Really? They aren't further West than that? Huh.*

Back to Maine: rollbiz, good on you for taking a break and then coming back in with a clear
head and a more rational, reasoned-out response to all this.

*True fact about the Public School System for non-USians: the first time I used maps in my school was in *high school* when I had to make a map of, of all places, Russia. I think they were worried we would become communists or something. And I was in ADVANCED world history!
posted by misha at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2010

Knocking your own hometown is pretty much a universal thing people do. If it's taking over a thread, that's obnoxious, but that's what flagging is for. Otherwise, get over it.
posted by spaltavian at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2010

To be fair, *True fact about the Public School System for non-USians: the first time I used maps in my school was in *high school* when I had to make a map of, of all places, Russia. I think they were worried we would become communists or something. And I was in ADVANCED world history! should really be location-specific. I came to World Geography late (not as late as high school) compared to my children, who have had World Geography every year since the second or third grade. Yes, public school.
posted by cooker girl at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2010

Ayyyyup.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:21 PM on March 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Try asking an American teenager what a political, topographical, or relief map is. They'll just LOL and say OMG UR OLD!! (They also can't spell. Creeeeeeepy.)

In my 400-level Anthropology of the Pacific class, there were a couple students who didn't know about plate tectonics or continental drift.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:28 PM on March 14, 2010

Whatever happened to ragging on New Jersey? Or Pennsylvania - it's Philadelphia on one end, Pittsburgh on the other, with Kentucky in the middle!

That PA one is nice because you can slam Kentucky at the same time.

On a more serious note, fuck South Dakota, amirite?
posted by Mister_A at 7:58 AM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

The only thing worse than New Yorkers is Long Islanders. Arizonans are culturally stunted racists. Michiganders use tanning salons but consume nothing but processed shit all fucking day. And they still smoke inside like animals and Parisians. Ninety-nine percent of the people on MetaFilter are lazy underachievers who think they're not. Half a percent know they are, at least, and the other half percent actually do shit but they are pretty boring nevertheless. If I had to pick a least favorite star it would be the sun, because it's hot in summer and cold in winter. What a fucking shit star. Hurr look at me, fusing hydrogen atoms, too bad I'm fucking lame as hell
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:05 PM on March 15, 2010 [17 favorites]

most of us were taught from a young age about how awful Maine is

My first exposure to Maine was the children's book Blueberries for Sal, and I basically still think of Maine as a magical land of blueberries.
posted by ekroh at 12:25 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Really, the over the top performance art "see how completely ironically hateful I can be" comments get old.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:40 PM on March 15, 2010

Jess, it's a joke. I live in New York, grew up in Arizona and Michigan, envy and admire the French, love MetaFilter, and appreciate the sun for making all of it possible. I should hope that was clear; no one could possibly in a million years be offended by what I wrote or think it was hateful, ironic or not.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:52 PM on March 15, 2010

I think the inclusion of "my least favorite star is the sun" pretty much puts something into obviously good natured joke territory. That's not even ironically hateful. It's like the time I called for a genocide on inchworms.

I mean, everybody knows Alpha Centauri is the stupidest star, anyway. God.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:07 PM on March 15, 2010

As a patron of the trolling arts, I have to disagree, Jessamyn. However, I should also point out, in the interests of full disclosure, that I love it when people do diarrhea on me and I hope that I get struck by a meteorite and sent to fart hell where I can roll around in the yummy yummy poop and death.
posted by Damn That Television at 1:08 PM on March 15, 2010 [2 favorites]

you have to admit, the sun is pretty fucking ostentatious. It's all "I'm in the sky and I'm so giant and bright you can't even look at me hurr," when in reality it's just kind of a blah star.
posted by scrutiny at 1:38 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, The Sun, like it's the only one. It's not even that BIG. We should call it, like, Jeff. And then be like, you only have an absolute magnitude of like, +4.83, Jeff. You SUCK.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:43 PM on March 15, 2010

Jess, it's a joke.

I know it's a joke. Other people don't.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:49 PM on March 15, 2010

Again, people call my city THE MISTAKE ON THE LAKE. And we topped the Forbes "Most Miserable Cities" list. If anyone has a reason to be grar, it's us. But we're not, because HA! our mortgages are awesomely affordable (so there).

(True story: I sold my old house and moved to Boston. I paid the same amount for A BEDROOM in a 9-bedroom shared house as I did for my very own 1940s 2-bedroom bungalow's mortgage here). So, you know... your hometown love mileage may vary...
posted by bitter-girl.com at 1:52 PM on March 15, 2010

The Sun is kind of a prick, I lent that guy my The Wire DVDs and when I got them back I discovered he swapped the discs for DVDRs full of Dragonball fanart. I mean, wth. Why couldn't our sun be a cool star like deneb
posted by threetoed at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I hate how The Sun is always pushing Jimmy Dean Sausages. What, skin cancer wasn't killing me fast enough? You gotta give me a coronary, too?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:01 PM on March 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

He has a facebook page.
posted by zarq at 2:04 PM on March 15, 2010

Just don't get me started on VY Canis Majoris, the Hummer H2 of stars. It disgusts me.
posted by Mister_A at 2:18 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I just hate it when the Sun wears sunglasses. Thanks for rubbing it in, you big gaseous jerk!
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:33 PM on March 15, 2010

I know it's a joke. Other people don't.

I laughed.

If those people can't tell that was a joke, they have something wrong with them.
posted by dunkadunc at 4:35 PM on March 15, 2010

People read this whole thread, and it's OC's comment that they got busy flagging?

People are flagging the entire damned thread, trust me, and we've been swapping a lot of email with people. In keeping with our general "over the top ironic racism/sexism/homophobia/grar doesn't go as well in Big MetaFilter as it did in Small MetaFilter so it would be nice if people would do less of it" policy, I figured I'd mention it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:41 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

To whatever extent that Big MetaFilter may have filled up with people so slow as to not be able to spot a joke when it goes supernova in their pants I say: boom! Go away.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:45 PM on March 15, 2010 [5 favorites]

Instead of the embarrassing, egotistical, public show of two eye-rollingly boorish, one-uppin' guys* who knew the site wasn't being policed that night but had nothing better to do?

just one. I was trolling because oversensitivity offends me and I had nothing better to do. rollbiz was just drunk.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:15 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I really fucking hope you're kidding, dude.
posted by rollbiz at 6:55 PM on March 15, 2010

wasted?
posted by gman at 7:02 PM on March 15, 2010

You know what? Fuck it. I think I just read that poorly the first couple of times. I hope so, anyway.
posted by rollbiz at 7:02 PM on March 15, 2010

uh oh
posted by sallybrown at 7:03 PM on March 15, 2010

I like Blueberries for Sal, too.

*passes the blueberries to ekroh*

Anybody else want some?
posted by SLC Mom at 7:09 PM on March 15, 2010

Nope. I'm still pissed about those gassy stellar jerks out there!
posted by Mister_A at 7:26 PM on March 15, 2010

the sun is a mass of incandescent ass, amirite?
posted by chinston at 7:59 PM on March 15, 2010

TMBG did a show not long after the new findings about the sun's composition had been announced, and they said "so we had this song but it seems our information has been superceded, so this song is now called The Sun is a Miasma of Motherfucking Plasma" and the nerdgasm that ensued was probably heard for hundreds of miles around. They changed all the lyrics, too. I wish I could tell you what they were but well drinks were like four bucks that night, so, yeah.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 8:30 PM on March 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

I like Blueberries for Sal, too.

If you go to Blueberry Hill today, you'll find some person from out-of-state built some horrible McMansion on it as a summer home a few years ago, with a four-car garage and a massive American flag.

Only once have I driven past and seen people there. I told them their house was godawful.

this is actually a trend in Maine- all the nice little coves, distant fields, all the swimming holes are being taken over by rich people's summer homes, and god forbid if you go there to swim or pick berries, 'cause they'll call the cops. Seriously. All the good places I used to go swimming as a kid are now gone. If I only had a rocket launcher.
posted by dunkadunc at 8:56 PM on March 15, 2010

The sun went out two minutes ago, because you hurt its feelings. You won't know about it for another six minutes because, you know, speed of light.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 10:10 PM on March 15, 2010

Is anyone still noticing this abortion?
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:15 AM on March 19, 2010

So when I was in college in the early 90's, VCRs were still relatively expensive and lots of students didn't have them. But this one guy who lived on my floor, whom we called "Fast Eddie" did-- he liked to drive two hoursa to the Native American casino and clean up at black jack. So anyway he had a VCR and a stack of tapes.

One day my roommate, who was a Russian-speaking emigre from Ukriane SSR came up to me as said "Beel, do you want to watch a movie? I borrow the VCR from the Eddie."

"We've watched everything to death."

"No, he got new movies. He got 'Star Wars,' 'Gross Anatomy' and 'Retarded Henry.'"

I started laughing. It was the kind of laugh that I knew would lead to an asthma attack if I didn't calm down.

"Vadim!" I choked out. "It's called 'Regarding Henry.' Regarding"

"Well, I didn't know! It's about a guy, and he was RETARDED!"
posted by Mayor Curley at 3:33 PM on March 19, 2010