Ranty? Not ranty? March 28, 2010 8:18 PM   Subscribe

Why did this post get deleted for being ranty and then reinstated in its same form?
posted by youcancallmeal to Etiquette/Policy at 8:18 PM (49 comments total)

It's actually fairly different. Netzapper emailed me and asked if there was a way to redo it. I said "sure if you can do it quicklike" and he said he could, and he did, and we put it back. It has a lot less of the "fuck those guys" statements in it and even though the general import is the same, I think it's unranty enough to be an answerable question and not fighty out of the gate.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:20 PM on March 28, 2010


Upon (much) closer inspection, I can see the difference. It just didn't seem to have significant change and still doesn't seem to be much more than chatfilter. That said, point taken. :)
posted by youcancallmeal at 8:22 PM on March 28, 2010


I like how citrus fruit purchasing is somehow a parallel for insurance coverage. I guess it's better than the rifle and something something that was in it earlier.
posted by iamabot at 8:27 PM on March 28, 2010


IIRC, the last sentence used to say "leave me the fuck alone," which was kind of a hostile note to end on.
posted by Jaltcoh at 8:29 PM on March 28, 2010


Now at the festival the moderators were accustomed to un-delete a deleted thread for the crowd, anyone they wanted.
At that time they had a notoriously deleted thread on healthcare. So after they had gathered, Jessamyn said to them, ‘Whom do you want me to release for you, healthcare or USian centrism?
The chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for healthcare and to have US-centrism killed.
The moderator again said to them, ‘Which of the two do you want me to release for you?’ And they said, ‘the ranty one.’
Then she asked, ‘Why, what evil has it done?’ But they shouted all the more, ‘Let it be crucified!
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:43 PM on March 28, 2010 [19 favorites]


Nice tie in to Palm Sunday, Fiasco!
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 8:48 PM on March 28, 2010


I don't get it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:55 PM on March 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


Not much to get, jessamyn---I just had the immediate image of Pilate with two deleted threads, one popular and the other clamorously hated by the multitude.

It wasn't meant to be a criticism, just run-of-the-mill banal sarcasm.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:58 PM on March 28, 2010


Psst! Jessamyn! Over here!
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:59 PM on March 28, 2010


I don't get it.
posted by jessamyn


That's because of yr first world atheistic privilege.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:00 PM on March 28, 2010


Just don't him started on the Sheeple and the Goats!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:01 PM on March 28, 2010


Is that where Pilates comes from?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:05 PM on March 28, 2010 [24 favorites]


This comment made (Canadian) me go "Aha, NOW I understand" as to what all this health care reform accomplishes, so I'm glad it got reposted.

i sure hope it's right
posted by mendel at 9:06 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


...and March 28 is Palm Sunday...
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 9:14 PM on March 28, 2010


Best to just wash our hands of the whole thing.
posted by Abiezer at 9:16 PM on March 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


Is that where Pilates comes from?

according to a quick google: "Pilates is named after Joseph H. Pilates, the man who developed the exercise regimen back in the 1920s"
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:17 PM on March 28, 2010


I'm still trying to decide which mod gets to ride on a donkey.
posted by pecknpah at 9:40 PM on March 28, 2010


This comment made (Canadian) me go "Aha, NOW I understand" as to what all this health care reform accomplishes, so I'm glad it got reposted.

Yeah. One of the main reasons getting this passed was so hard, and why it remains somewhat unpopular, is that no one, not the President or anyone in Congress, made much of an effort to actually explain the mandate. I happened to know why it was necessary, because I read fivethirtyeight.com obsessively, but my first reaction was "force people to buy insurance?? Crazy!"

(Even a lot of liberal bloggers were holding it up as a bad thing, although I don't how much of that was being ill-informed, and how much was deliberate deception because of bitterness that it wasn't public option/single-payer.)

You really can't blame the public for not liking the sound of things when no one bothers to give a mainstream, coherent explanation.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:41 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


damn guvmint wants everyone to have a pilates license
posted by not_on_display at 10:02 PM on March 28, 2010


I MOUNTED ON YOUR MOM'S SERMON
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:12 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

I MOUNTED ON YOUR MOM'S SERMON
Flagged as beatitude.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:17 PM on March 28, 2010 [3 favorites]


Oh boy! My first deleted question, and a MeTa thread, all in the same day.

I never meant to be ranty in the first place. I was just trying to be witty, frankly. But my cynicism showed through more than my wit. Jessamyn had me strip out all the, uh, color commentary, and concentrate on the issue at hand.

But I won't deny that there was bias in the question. That was the whole point. Congress spent a year arguing about a bill, and finally passed it, and the democrats (on TV and at the dog park) were all crowing about it. But, here I was, basically in agreement that *something* needed done, but totally confused about how this particular legislation was anything other than a handout to insurance-companies.

I like how citrus fruit purchasing is somehow a parallel for insurance coverage. I guess it's better than the rifle and something something bloodhound that was in it earlier.

Metafilter is insanely, incredibly analogy impaired. You go to make an analogy and say that object A and object B share a set of characteristics, and then the Literalist Squad comes in and says "Oh, but A does not equal B! You are disingenuous and prejudiced."

Like in the zoophilia thread where somebody said, "The treatment of A is like the treatment of B" and people got all butthurt over their perception that somebody had said "A == B".

Insurance isn't like oranges; they share basically no traits. Buying insurance isn't much like buying oranges; other than exchanging money for something of value, the process is very dissimilar. But the government requiring you to buy insurance does share many traits with the government requiring you to buy oranges, especially when the conversation at hand is about the government making you buy stuff.

Let me give you an analogy for the failure to parse analogies.* Imagine that I said "If you compare 15 and 25, you'll find that they can both be evenly divided by 5." And then the Literalist Squad jumps in with both feet, screaming, "15 is not equal to 25!" Of course, the Squad is correct, but they absolutely missed the point.

*Of course the irony is not lost on me.
posted by Netzapper at 10:35 PM on March 28, 2010


I think Netzapper's is a crap question, and I don't see why it was allowed. But hey, I'm wrong sometimes; I'm willing to be wrong now if somebody can tell me why.

I mean, if Netzapper wanted to restate the question, he could've dropped the ten-page format where he explained the bill to us and then asked us to explain it back so that he could disagree. And he wouldn't have turned around and actually told us we were wrong when we tried to answer the question. Jesus, why couldn't he just leave the question at the first sentence he gave? Dude was itching for a fight.

I say: it shouldn't have been reinstated. And I think his fighty responses in-thread show that I'm right.
posted by koeselitz at 10:39 PM on March 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


I mean, seriously, Netzapper - if you want to know why people like the health-care bill, listen to what they say about it. People are talking about it enough nowadays. Or even ask that question. But if you want to ask rhetorically, because you think they don't really understand the bill – well, that's a pretty crap thing to do in ask.metafilter.
posted by koeselitz at 10:41 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Bleh, it's not like there are just endless pages of obfuscated hexadecimal character codes making up these big bills. Instead of passing many small bills, which presumably has lots of overhead, legislators just merge with the trunk every few months and see if a release can be made. :P

There was a big student loan reform thing in there, too!

(damn kids get off my loan)
posted by cowbellemoo at 10:44 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


Imagine that I said "If you compare 15 and 25, you'll find that they can both be evenly divided by 5."

I'm sorry, but as a card carrying member of the Union Of Concerned Literalists, I feel it necessary to let you know that I think you'll find they can actually both be oddly divided by five.
posted by Nothing... and like it at 10:58 PM on March 28, 2010 [8 favorites]


I mean, seriously, Netzapper - if you want to know why people like the health-care bill, listen to what they say about it. People are talking about it enough nowadays. Or even ask that question. But if you want to ask rhetorically, because you think they don't really understand the bill – well, that's a pretty crap thing to do in ask.metafilter.

I should have been more clear in the thread. Ya'll explained it. I asked questions, and I listened to answers. I get it. I think I probably even support it, assuming that the answers in the thread accurately represent the language of the bill.

I'm looking forward to my wife getting home in the morning so that I can discuss with her how we got it wrong.

But, hey, I really fucking appreciate the assumption of good faith here, koeselitz. I'm very sorry that, in your world view, personal political opinions never change. It must be very frustrating having discussions with people with the full knowledge that nobody will ever change their minds.
posted by Netzapper at 11:09 PM on March 28, 2010 [1 favorite]


But the government requiring you to buy insurance does share many traits with the government requiring you to buy oranges, especially when the conversation at hand is about the government making you buy stuff.


Just because you made a bad and loaded analogy doesn't mean I'm going to feel bad about calling you on it. The onus is on you to make the analogy relate to the topic at hand, not for me to interpret it in the kindest possible light as it relates to the discussion.

Metafilter is insanely, incredibly analogy impaired. You go to make an analogy and say that object A and object B share a set of characteristics, and then the Literalist Squad comes in and says "Oh, but A does not equal B! You are disingenuous and prejudiced."


No, you just made a really bad stunt analogy.

Let me give you an analogy for the failure to parse analogies.* Imagine that I said "If you compare 15 and 25, you'll find that they can both be evenly divided by 5." And then the Literalist Squad jumps in with both feet, screaming, "15 is not equal to 25!" Of course, the Squad is correct, but they absolutely missed the point.

I don't think that's an analogy, but you are clearly better at this than I am.
posted by iamabot at 11:15 PM on March 28, 2010

people got all butthurt
Seriously? This isn't /b/, last time I checked. Whether their criticism was valid or not, you could find a better word to describe people concerned about homophobia.
posted by zamboni at 11:27 PM on March 28, 2010 [5 favorites]


Seriously? This isn't /b/, last time I checked. Whether their criticism was valid or not, you could find a better word to describe people concerned about homophobia.

You're absolutely right. I apologize for that.
posted by Netzapper at 11:40 PM on March 28, 2010 [2 favorites]


Netzapper: “But, hey, I really fucking appreciate the assumption of good faith here, koeselitz. I'm very sorry that, in your world view, personal political opinions never change. It must be very frustrating having discussions with people with the full knowledge that nobody will ever change their minds.”

I don't assume good faith. Assuming anything on the internet is pretty foolhardy. That's why I phrased it the way I did - I couldn't tell from your question if you were honestly wondering, or if you just wanted to score points. You say it's the former; if so, more power to you.
posted by koeselitz at 11:59 PM on March 28, 2010


right before clicking over to metatalk i turned to the husband and said "there was a great healthcare question on metafilter!" then he and i discussed it for 10 or 15 minutes, then i clicked here.

so, um - i'm glad it came back.
posted by nadawi at 12:23 AM on March 29, 2010


ask isn't for discussions. It's for answering questions.
posted by koeselitz at 12:33 AM on March 29, 2010


I say: it shouldn't have been reinstated. And I think his fighty responses in-thread show that I'm right.

Fighty responses? I saw nothing in the thread that made me think that Netzapper was being belligerent. In fact, he was calm and explanatory about his responses, and that meant that the thread lead to a pretty productive explanation of the bill:

-

JackFlash: There are three interlocking pieces and they all have to go together.

1. Insurers must take all comers. No exclusions for pre-existing conditions. No caps. No rescissions if you get sick.

2. Because of #1, you must have a individual mandate. Otherwise everyone who is healthy will just wait until they are sick to get insurance because they can't be refused. If insurance companies must take all of the sick people, you need healthy people to even out the risk pool. The larger the pool, the lower the average cost for everyone.

3. Because of #2, you must have subsidies for those who can't afford the individual mandate.

Netzapper: If I can both pay a nominal "penalty" and still get insured after my catastrophic car accident, then the insurance companies have a very strong incentive to set their premium price lower than the penalty price.
posted by suedehead at 1:09 AM on March 29, 2010


Pontius Pilates is a great name for a religious themed exercise studio. It'll be huge in the flyover states.
posted by fixedgear at 1:19 AM on March 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


2 cents: I really liked this question. It had been on my mind, too.
posted by GilloD at 2:03 AM on March 29, 2010


koeselitz: I don't assume good faith. Assuming anything on the internet is pretty foolhardy.

Small point, minor I know: this isn't "The Internet". This is the subset of "The Internet" commonly referred to as "Metafilter". Last time I checked, the community around here generally encouraged civility (which requires the assumption of good faith).
posted by coriolisdave at 3:04 AM on March 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


Pilate the Pilates coach or Pilate Billhingham?
posted by anniecat at 6:28 AM on March 29, 2010


I MOUNTED ON YOUR MOM'S SERMON
posted by cortex at 10:12 PM on March 28 [1 favorite +] [!]


I wrongly assumed moderators were held to a higher standard.
posted by anniecat at 6:30 AM on March 29, 2010


There is no ethical line I will not blindly cross in pursuit of a strained "your mom" joke. It is a personal failing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:18 AM on March 29, 2010 [8 favorites]


Yo momma crosses ethical lines to get to my house.
posted by anniecat at 7:25 AM on March 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Hey guys, let's all pretend he said we should buy a gross of Jaffa Oranges. It's not nearly a political enough question anymore.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:41 AM on March 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Yo momma is a house.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:55 AM on March 29, 2010


I want to embed an image of House saying "It's never Lupus." But the mods have destroyed that great bit of MeFi utility.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:57 AM on March 29, 2010


But 15 and 25 are congruent in mod 5! Mod 10, even!
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 8:03 AM on March 29, 2010


zamboni, finding a better word for butthurt is non-trivial.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 8:24 AM on March 29, 2010


I was just going to post a link to the current HCR thread, because every question has been asked and answered a dozen times in there -

. . . *sniff sniff* I sense a great disturbance . . . someone is questioning America's hegemony! I'm off to defend the motherland.
posted by Think_Long at 8:25 AM on March 29, 2010


I've managed to debunk a few of the common Republican talking points going around, when chatting with people, but a few choice bits that friends who are nurses have noted as each of them have taken a chunk of the bill and attempted to translate into human language have left me scratching my head. I am seriously considering printing out the whole thing and poring over it, then dropping it on the big toe of anyone who spouts off some bizarro world "And this will fund secret abortions for Christian teens!"
posted by adipocere at 9:07 AM on March 29, 2010


Adipocere, I've been thinking of doing something similar. I want to put the whole thing up online and summarize it, in plain English with no bias (I was thinking of enlisting my Republican college roommate to do it with me so I can prove it's not just a liberal thing).

This morning, on NPR, I listened to a piece about Tea Party protesters. One of them said "None of us know what's in there" referring to the bill, and I found myself saying "Well, read it then!" But in order for that to happen, it has to be made easy to read—the thing is 2000+ pages long.
posted by ocherdraco at 10:17 AM on March 29, 2010


« Older So it's "ranty" when a non-American calls out US...   |   Compare your pronunciation of "mefite" with... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments