Killdozer July 6, 2011 4:39 AM   Subscribe

I don't normally hang around on Meta, but I've got to ask. What's the right thing to do about this?

On the one hand, it has a lot in common with an ad (eg no posting history). On the other hand.... Jesus.
posted by Leon to Etiquette/Policy at 4:39 AM (65 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

I answered the question, and mentioned that linking his content there isn't really kosher. I note the account is new, but thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

it wouldn't surprise me if the mods strip all the links to his content, though.
posted by russm at 4:41 AM on July 6, 2011


oh, and as for "What's the right thing to do about this?", either answer the question or don't post in the thread. if you specifically want the mods to take a look (in case they haven't noticed it themselves) then flag it.
posted by russm at 4:48 AM on July 6, 2011


Yeah, that looks totally dodgy despite the intensity of the story.
posted by OmieWise at 4:50 AM on July 6, 2011


This is not how askme should operate.
posted by tomswift at 4:53 AM on July 6, 2011


actually, strip everything below the fold and it's absolutely fine for AskMe.
posted by russm at 4:59 AM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


There is also the contact form to alert the mods of dodgy behavior.
posted by josher71 at 5:09 AM on July 6, 2011


big red box!
posted by elizardbits at 5:11 AM on July 6, 2011


I flagged it as 'breaks the guidelines'. Then I moved on.
posted by ook at 5:14 AM on July 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


Something odd there? There's a red box saying the post was deleted, but there's also a comment box?

Oh yeah, that question looks completely dodgy to me.
posted by dg at 5:15 AM on July 6, 2011


Post's gone now, so the point it moot, but I guess I felt that he needs more help than we're equipped to give. "Delete for minor rules infraction" didn't seem like what was needed, to me, but I wasn't sure what was.
posted by Leon at 5:15 AM on July 6, 2011


oh, so that's what the red box looks like.

/me ticks off another item in the MeFi scavenger hunt.
posted by russm at 5:19 AM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I also was really torn about it, but flagged it as "breaks the guidelines". As compelling stuff as it is, as a user with no posting history it's tough to know what to think. I wouldn't mind some additional followup from the user, but this is, as everybody else has already said, not the appropriate use of AskMeFi.
posted by ladybird at 5:45 AM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I met Tim Hetherington just a few months before he died. We saw Black Swan and drank into the night and he told me that there was no way he would go back to Afghanistan, he felt like he'd already tested his luck there. He was with his girlfriend and he seemed to be saying what she wanted to hear; he also seemed like he missed it. I thought, wow this guy is so handsome and brave and invincible. And then bam, he's dead.

Anyway, Tim said he was going to Libya to document the effect the media had on the conflict. He described these surreal scenes of young boys holding rifles and posing for war photographers, like they were playing this fatal and murderous game of dress-up, just caught up in the theater of it all. He said that's what he was interested in for his next project.

And then people like this go over in his wake and to find his story and it's just all very strange and I don't know what to think.
posted by nathancaswell at 5:52 AM on July 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


It's interesting because the AskMe post has the frantic intensity of someone typing on their blackberry in the middle of the firefight. But on the same day, in order to get the minimum 3 comments in, he left a perfectly normal comment in the "Smash Mouth will eat a manageable number of eggs" thread. I'm not questioning the OP's intentions, but the juxtaposition is rather amusing.
posted by Think_Long at 6:12 AM on July 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


I'll question his intentions. This read very much like someone looking for any question that would give them an excuse to sell their project: "Hey guys, any idea how I can quickly cool thirty cases of delicious and refreshing Mountain Dew Magenta? Check our facebook page for more info, cause I'm stumped!"
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:50 AM on July 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


He dropped us a note asking what to do this morning and we dropped him a note back.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:06 AM on July 6, 2011


"Delete for minor rules infraction" didn't seem like what was needed, to me, but I wasn't sure what was.

Well, it's more "delete for fundamental misunderstanding of how the site works" as much as anything, but like Jess said, we're hoping we can help him work out something useful via email.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:10 AM on July 6, 2011


Killdozer
posted by Sailormom at 7:28 AM on July 6, 2011


"Delete for minor rules infraction" didn't seem like what was needed, to me, but I wasn't sure what was.

Deletions aren't a punishment. Deletions make the site better.
posted by grouse at 7:57 AM on July 6, 2011 [11 favorites]


Or what the cooler heads and kinder hearts of the mods say.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:19 AM on July 6, 2011


love the user name.
posted by clavdivs at 8:29 AM on July 6, 2011


Ugh, such a perfect illustration why DonationFilter is really problematic ("I've seen that work here before").
posted by 6550 at 8:49 AM on July 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I left three normal comments. I read the requirements for a front page post and am capable of behaving in a diplomatic fashion. So I read three stories and made three cogent remarks. I've read this site for a very long time but never registered an account until recently when I suddenly had a need for one. I apologize.

I staggered off of the boat a few days ago. Malta is absurdly nice compared to where I was. I am going back. More videos are going up. I really would like to set up a donation portal- I apologize for linking to material that I shot myself.

Tim Heatherington died because they had no chest needles. Either a Tension Pneumothorax or a Hemothorax. Right now I'm uploading the videos where we tour the front. Real trenches. When you take out armor and you take out air power you are left with the technologies of World War I and so the conflict takes that shape.

This is a brutal meat grinder that is only good at killing Libyans. All NATO has done is remove the ability for either side to win and create a humanitarian nightmare. This is why I am releasing publicly. I'm just really hoping that I can pay for it.
posted by kpdawes at 11:33 AM on July 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


kpdawes, maybe you could set up a blog where you can link to all the video you are uploading, and where you can write up your feelings right now, what parts of the experience are most significant to you right now, etc. Then you would be able to link to that blog under the section of this site called "Projects" - see the link in the top line of this page.

You could set up paypal donation link on the blog, or set up a kickstarter project, or whatever other method of payment you figure out.

It would be good to have all your materials linked on a single page, and it would give you an outlet for your current thoughts etc as you are still in the process of mentally coming back.
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:39 AM on July 6, 2011 [4 favorites]


(Your experience sounds interesting and awful, and your story is important. I think everyone here would agree with that. So please don't be hurt by the fact that posting it all on AskMe/the green or asking for funding here isn't the correct venue. People still recognize the importance and will read/watch if you put it up in the right venue - eg a personal blog.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:42 AM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Well, it's important to make clear that I wasn't posting and demanding payment. I was just asking about the easiest way to set up a donation portal. I was going to let vox populi decide. I still need to find the other stories. Chris Hondros, et al.

Between the shelling and the sniper that tried to kill me (the video was worth it- you see the entire front all the way out to the Mediterranean sea) the sniper was worse. I'll eventually put that video up. Maltean internet is remarkably slow. I'll be here until the 12th at which point I return to San Diego to resupply and ... stuff. Basically address the needs I raised in my original ask mefi post. I'll be returning on the first of August...

If you're following my uploads... things don't get VERY exciting until the tenth. We're still on the ninth.
posted by kpdawes at 11:49 AM on July 6, 2011


It would be helpful if you could be very, very clear about what it is you're asking for help with (apart from donations). You mention help with distribution efforts; do you also need help uploading? It sounds like you are really in a bit of shock, so it might be difficult to think all this stuff through, but when you're ready to set up a blog or Kickstarter project or whatever, you'll have a much easier time getting support if you can be very specific about what you need most.
posted by ladybird at 12:05 PM on July 6, 2011


kpdawes, did you think these two comments here made it better? Because I read it as you are confirming that the whole incident is SEO/donation trolling and abuse of community resources. I hope you are banned and this thread is deleted too. This is appalling.
posted by norm at 12:08 PM on July 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Yes I do need some help uploading them. The main problem is that I'm in Malta. I was looking for a lead on fast Maltean internet. I'm skipping a lot of clips to get to the major segments. When I get to the states I'll have to reorder all of my uploads so that everything is chronological. It might be easiest to just make a new youtube account.

The first of four parts of the next Tameem segment is up.
posted by kpdawes at 12:10 PM on July 6, 2011


The first of four parts of the next Tameem segment is up.

While I totally appreciate your showing up here, please do not use this MeTa thread as a place to promote your content. People have given you some great advice and I hope that you take it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:13 PM on July 6, 2011


Will do. Thank you for everything.
posted by kpdawes at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2011


norm: Because I read it as you are confirming that the whole incident is SEO/donation trolling and abuse of community resources. I hope you are banned and this thread is deleted too. This is appalling.

While again, I agree that straight up asking for money and self-linking is definitely an not appropriate use of the site, I think that kpdawes is a bit different from, say, that guy that kept trying to sell Jamón ibérico on the blue... In which case I'd like to think we could give him the benefit of the doubt and try to point him in the right direction rather than just ban him outright. He seems to be taking all of our comments on board and I tend to think he's legit, just not quite sure about how the site works and casting about a bit in desperation.
posted by ladybird at 12:36 PM on July 6, 2011


I suppose my feelings were stated in a particularly intemperate way, but the post and then the response in this thread are so chock full of adjectives and marketing speak, it only differs from the more obvious spam by a bit of sophistication and, apparently, earnestness. I still think leaving this thread up means that strategy wins, and outlines the edges where marketers can come and play. I think it's a bad precedent. Consider:
  • Is the question about uploading or is it a donations plea?
  • Is the response in this thread a genuine effort to talk through what was unacceptable or is it a way to reach more audience?
  • Did kpdawes not admit that he made three pro forma comments just to unlock the ability to access AxeMe?
  • Is this an actual community member or someone who wants to reach the audience?
While I cringe when I re-read my previous comment (it makes me sound a bit overwrought, admittedly), I still think I'm right. This is basically just SEO/buzz marketing.
posted by norm at 12:49 PM on July 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


I suppose my feelings were stated in a particularly intemperate way, but the post and then the response in this thread are so chock full of adjectives and marketing speak, it only differs from the more obvious spam by a bit of sophistication and, apparently, earnestness. I still think leaving this thread up means that strategy wins, and outlines the edges where marketers can come and play. I think it's a bad precedent.

Fortunately, MetaFilter is not like the US legal system, where once something is precedent it is law. Acceptable content on the site is a relatively fluid thing. Self-promotion is verboten but I don't see this guy's behavior as worthy of a banning. I don't think he was trying to be purposefully deceptive, and it sounds like in the context of just coming back from a war zone he's was not thinking through his actions.

Did kpdawes not admit that he made three pro forma comments just to unlock the ability to access AxeMe?

This part is so common it's not even worth-while to bring up. Probably hundreds of currently fine, upstanding members of MetaFilter were formed in such a fashion.

MetaFilter appears to be doing just fine, and the site does not suffer if not everyone who joins does so with the long-term goal of being a community member. MetaFilter is a bit unusual in its strong community ethos, and it can be an unusual idea for people who are used to websites such as these serving a mostly utilitarian function. I think many people start out for mercenary purposes and then get hooked on the great content long term, and the great members, and it's then that they become members too.

kpdawes seems like the kind of person who does interesting things and might have interesting insights to offer down the road, and I'd hate to see him banned or shunned for a fairly typical newbie mistake.
posted by Deathalicious at 12:58 PM on July 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Fortunately, MetaFilter is not like the US legal system, where once something is precedent it is law.

Are you saying I won't have a market for my Metafilter Reporter Case Guide? Because that sounds like that is what you are saying. While I'm here, what's the best way to publish my MRCG? It's got so much amazing content in it, I'm kind of concerned about just putting it in a PDF and posting it online. Is there a good way that I can get donations for the publishing? It's split into four volumes. There's the "Cat In Scanner" volume, which runs up to 9/11; there's the "Antediluvian" volume, which covers the time up to the re-opening of signups; there's the "Sarah Palin" volume, which covers the time up to the 2008 US Presidential Elections, and then there's the "Lady Gaga" volume, which has real time updates of new MeFi case law sent out on a weekly basis!

And it can be yours for... community, how much should I charge? I will just put it to a vote of the vox populi.

I'm trying to lighten up a little bit.
posted by norm at 1:04 PM on July 6, 2011


I do totally see where norm is coming from here, I really do. However I still maintain that with proper framing of his question(s) that does NOT include self-linking or donation trawling, kpdawes can still get insight and help without breaking the guidelines, and maybe in return MeFi gets a member with an interesting perspective and the ability to engage on a fascinating topic if they choose to do so... via MeFi mail, his personal blog, and other more appropriate channels. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition IMO.
posted by ladybird at 1:32 PM on July 6, 2011


Are you saying I won't have a market for my Metafilter Reporter Case Guide?

See Metafilter v. kpdawes ex rel Leon, Metatalk (July 6, 2011), available at http://metatalk.metafilter.com/20780/Killdozer.
posted by yarly at 1:53 PM on July 6, 2011


I always thought Killdozer was a band and a monster truck or something, but this thread helped me discover this guy so it was all worth it. Thanks Metafilter!
posted by nathancaswell at 2:21 PM on July 6, 2011


kpdawes, I am telling you more specifically: this MeTa thread is not your blog. Please contact people in other ways if you need to interact with them. Do not write blog-style posts here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:38 PM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is more awesome than 100 'I think she likes me. should I ask her out?' and 'make me a mix tape' questions.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:13 PM on July 6, 2011


The question could be re-written in a few ways. This comes to my mind:
"How can I make 120+ GB of video available to the public, and how can I monetize/accept donations for this?"

And for one possible answer: license this how you will and distribute it in a few smaller (~10 GB) .torrents.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 4:20 PM on July 6, 2011


No, I'd just really LIKE to be able to pay for it otherwise it's just a large Visa bill. If I can't pay for it I can't go back and finish. So, donation portal. I'm not trying to profit from this.
posted by kpdawes at 4:25 PM on July 6, 2011


The more posts we get from kpdawes, the more I agree with norm.
posted by donnagirl at 4:32 PM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


kpdawes, the more you discuss financing your work here, the harder it is to treat you as a potential community member in good faith. I thought in a comment (that maybe jessamyn deleted?) you said you were going to lay off the commenting for a while. This would be a very good idea if you don't want to counterproductively irritate people.
posted by grouse at 4:38 PM on July 6, 2011


kpdawes, this is getting somewhat silly. Please do not mention money or donations in this thread again. If you are unclear on what is going on here, email us at the contact form link in the lower right corner.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:47 PM on July 6, 2011


I might be a bad person for admitting this, but I kind of love it when the mods and community deal with a self-promoter in such a direct, strict fashion, especially when the person's work is this interesting. Sort of a case-in-point proof that rules are rules, no matter what you're self-linking.

Yay consistency!
posted by supercres at 4:48 PM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dude! If your shit's any good (and I haven't looked because I don't want to pay you a click for shilling on Askme) and you really are a journalist, you'd already know how to get paid for your story. Either you're a shady guy aggregating someone else's videos, or you're an over-excitable aid volunteer who just realized they have something important. I suspect the former, but if it's the latter, you should contact an independent news organization.

Either way, you're misusing AskMe and Meta. I'm surprised you didn't already know that from all your many months of lurking.
posted by dchrssyr at 5:00 PM on July 6, 2011


Years, actually. I've read this site since ... 2005? Yeah, that's about right.
posted by kpdawes at 5:28 PM on July 6, 2011


So when somebody tells you you should have known better your response is no, you really really should have known better?
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:32 PM on July 6, 2011 [3 favorites]


Well, when you lurk on a site you tend to consume the content and not the regulatory minutiae. All of the moderation was transparent to me. I simply misapprehended things.
posted by kpdawes at 5:35 PM on July 6, 2011


Have you ever ever in your six years of lurking seen anyone do anything remotely similar to what you've been doing? This isn't regulatory minutiae, this is a fundamental aspect of how the site works.
posted by 6550 at 5:57 PM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dude! If your shit's any good (and I haven't looked because I don't want to pay you a click for shilling on Askme)
I have. I didn't get even halfway through the six clips I tried to watch. Most of them seem to be boring, unedited, self interviews.
posted by unliteral at 5:58 PM on July 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I watched some of the videos, and from what I saw he seems to be performing aid etc, but this all has me very confused...
posted by nathancaswell at 6:22 PM on July 6, 2011


Please do not start cross-site rivalry stuff here. Link to what you want, copy-pasting stuff without context is totally not okay.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:35 PM on July 6, 2011


Kpdawes, here is an edited version of the post that I think would have probably been fine:

I am a freelance battlefield photojournalist who just got out of Libya. I'm presently in Malta and have 120 gigabytes of critical material that I need to upload to youtube. The internet here is very slow. Other than wait for my return to San Diego, what can I do?

My plan is to release everything to the public domain and then solicit donations. This is the first time that I have ever done anything like this. Does anyone have any ideas for the best donation setup?


Perhaps you might also have added something like:

I am still trying to process the horrifying experiences I went through and what I saw. Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with this?

(Hint: the correct answer to the last question is not "write about your experiences at length in inappropriate forums").
posted by lollusc at 8:43 PM on July 6, 2011


self disable or banned?
posted by Think_Long at 9:02 PM on July 6, 2011


never mind, none of my business.
posted by Think_Long at 9:06 PM on July 6, 2011


I don't mean to start a "cross-site rivalry" but it's probably worth mentioning that this guy was permabanned from Something Awful. I don't know too many of the details, but you can get backstory on how he decided to come to Libya and some issues people have with him by reading his earlier posts there.
posted by shii at 12:12 AM on July 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


this is gold
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:25 AM on July 7, 2011


Wow, those SA threads are something. Maybe this MeTa should be deleted. This guy does not need any more publicity.
posted by 6550 at 12:55 AM on July 7, 2011


That's not gold, Lovecraft, it's scary. This dude is sick, and he's pretending to be a doctor/medic based on Youtube videos he watched. God, what a terrible situation for everyone.
posted by smoke at 1:25 AM on July 7, 2011


kpdawes: You can post links to stuff in your profile.

Also, reddit.com doesn't have rules against self linking like metafilter. Post this stuff in /r/worldnews and you can do an "AMA" (ask me anything) like "IAMA war journalist who just got back from Libya, AMA" (IAMA = I am a).

You can also ask questions in Ask Reddit
posted by delmoi at 2:10 AM on July 7, 2011


Woah, the SA thread is seriously nuts.
posted by delmoi at 2:15 AM on July 7, 2011


ADBOT LOVES YOU
posted by troll at 2:40 AM on July 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm going to close this up.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:49 AM on July 7, 2011


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