You know that Flickr thing? Don't do that. July 28, 2011 7:18 AM   Subscribe

What exactly is it we're not supposed to do with Flickr links?

Evidently there's something we really really can't do but unfortunately there's no clue as to what it is. Can someone enlighten me?
posted by unSane to Etiquette/Policy at 7:18 AM (116 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

I think he linked to his own Flickr set, which is a self-link, which is nigh-verboten.
posted by griphus at 7:20 AM on July 28, 2011


Sorry, not trying to be opaque. The thing you should not do with your flickr stream is the same thing you should not do with your anything: link it in a post you're making to the front page of the site. I don't think flyingsquirrel was trying to be sketchy, which is why it was a quick edit and a note rather than a ban for self-linking.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:20 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


You're not supposed to link to your own content in the text of your post. This is true for any sort of content including Flickr photo sets. This is so we don't have to eyeball it and figure out if there's some sort of angle you're working in linking to your own content. If the post won't stand on its own without you linking to your own content, don't make the post.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:20 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


Verboten since he was the fpp poster. Otherwise it's ok. Sometimes the self-linking policy just doesn't work, but I guess that's the price you gotto pay when combating spam/abuse.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:22 AM on July 28, 2011


OK, thanks. Makes sense now.
posted by unSane at 7:25 AM on July 28, 2011


Sometimes the self-linking policy just doesn't work

In what way? The post can or cannot stand without them linking to their own material. If it can, great. If it can't, they shouldn't post it. That's basically the whole deal, and insofar as it restricts what a given person can post about only by tiny, tiny slivers in a huge universe of extant web content it works really well as a way to sidestep weird "yeah but it's neat so it's okay this time" arguments (to say nothing of concomitant "well but it was okay that that time so why not this time" followups).
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:26 AM on July 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


Sometimes the self-linking policy just doesn't work

It's one of the few rules we have that we apply consistently and it hasn't changed since the site was teeny. Do not link to your own content in a front page post. The part that is less consistent is whether we ban you for it. As cortex said, we're pretty sure flyingsquirrel wasn't trying to be dodgy but it's important that there not be a "well if the links are really cool, it's okay" loophole to this sort of thing. Taking up our time trying to ferret out what sort of angle someone might be working when thy link to their own content is a terrible use of our time. There's a huge internet full of wonderful things and if you're too close to a subject to be able to make a post without linking to your own content, we are 100% okay with that subject not being posted by you to MetaFilter.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:26 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


The self-linking policy worked just fine here with no price to pay. There are lots of pictures of Scenic, South Dakota on Flickr. (Although some of those may instead be of scenic South Dakota.)
posted by DU at 7:27 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


In my experience, putting your own link in the comment right after the post seems to be fine.
posted by wheelieman at 7:32 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


In what way?

Like in this AskMe. The first comment is by jessamyn and says:
[Please put links in your profile, not here. Thanks.]

Which is confusing and annoying, particularly you need to know which site the askme is about in question in order to answer the question. Now, miss lynnster had a link in her profile but damned if I know if that's the site she's referring to (turns out she was, but I had to ask if the AskMe to get a clarification). Then there's the case of people working on multiple projects and not linking to them on their profile page.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:33 AM on July 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


grammar check ftw
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2011


miss lynnster had a link in her profile but damned if I know if that's the site she's referring to

To be very clear, miss lynnster has been here long enough that she should know that linking to your own site in a "help me monetize my site" question was an absolute "we would usually ban you" situation and because she's a longtime user we ignored the flags and just fixed the problem for her because she was in a jam.

Saying "put a link in your profile" is our compromise position from deleting the question outright and/or deleting the question and banning the user, something which we've done in the past. I sympathize when people have a difficult time sort of understanding the weird things we have to do to keep the site running and spam-free, but your beef is with miss lynnster in this case, not us. It should be clear that allowing "How do I monetize my site" questions with links to the site in question is a totally-not-ever-okay thing to do in AskMe.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:40 AM on July 28, 2011


I understand the mod perspective on this and really have no beef with anyone. I just wanted to highlight the fact that the self-policy linking isn't without its disadvantages. I guess that's the thing with policies in general.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:47 AM on July 28, 2011


"you really really need to not do that flyingsquirrel."

is really very different from

"you really really need to not do that, flyingsquirrel."

R.I.P. the addressive comma.
posted by Eideteker at 7:50 AM on July 28, 2011 [18 favorites]


Then there's the case of people working on multiple projects and not linking to them on their profile page.

The profile page is free-form and people can link to as many of their projects as they like, with as much explanation as they like; beyond that, we've got Projects specifically for those cases where what someone wants to do is explicitly feature their own work on the site in a sanctioned self-promotional way.

Ultimately it's on the user to figure out how not to break the one big rule, and because we understand that sometimes it's a misstep rather than overt spamming we try to meet folks halfway on stuff like personal links that don't really need to be there.

As a result, there are probably a few debateable futzy edge case situations in askme a year where there's a question of how necessary a not really very necessary seeming link to the person's whatever is to the question, in exchange for enforceable, zero-ambiguity simplicity in dealing with the overall issue of self-links. And I appreciate that said futziness is futzy, but it's on such a teeny scale compared to the overall problem that the self-linking prohibition deals with that it's not even on my shortlist of metafilter policies that make for difficult compromises.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:52 AM on July 28, 2011


You can prick your finger...
posted by crunchland at 8:02 AM on July 28, 2011


Hey, where's the page of photos recently posted to Flickr by Mefites? There used to be a link in the Flickr widget, but it's gone now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:04 AM on July 28, 2011


It got canned during the social app makeover
posted by griphus at 8:06 AM on July 28, 2011


Probably because it was also used on one of the reruns of The Simpsons I watched last night, all this talk of flying squirrels means I can't get the Rocky and Bullwinkle theme -- or more accurately the interstitial bit where Rocky flies -- out of my head.

I wish I had a world's worst website where I could use that in the background.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:25 AM on July 28, 2011


What's this about sex with squirrels?

Winter is coming.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:26 AM on July 28, 2011 [4 favorites]


Winter is a person or a squirrel?

All I know is that Winter is coming.
posted by inigo2 at 8:42 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also that Chrome scrolls a lot faster than Firefox, and makes me miss stuff that's right above what I post. I'm an idiot.
posted by inigo2 at 8:43 AM on July 28, 2011


Winter is a person or a squirrel?

Depends on the furry.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:48 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


I had a weird crush on Rocky from Rocky & Bullwinkle, when I was young.



I don't know why I told you all that.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:49 AM on July 28, 2011 [6 favorites]


But while I'm on the subject, here are some other cartoon characters who interested me sexually in (and I would stress this point) the past:

-- Penny, from Inspector Gadget. 'Nuff said.
-- That main kid from Cities of Gold. Hey, dude ended up with a entire fucking CITY of gold.
-- Morph. He just seems like he'd go off in the sack.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:56 AM on July 28, 2011 [6 favorites]


So essentially I guess this is me "coming out" to you all as a former cartoon bisexual. With a thing for plasticine.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:57 AM on July 28, 2011


... And if you'd all been cool with the MeFi "talk to me about ... former cartoon sexuality issues" service proposed a few threads ago, you wouldn't even be reading this shit. So really it's your own damn fault.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:58 AM on July 28, 2011 [8 favorites]


I hereby nominate the quidnunc kid to step up and kill every future MeTa thread cold.
posted by Gator at 9:11 AM on July 28, 2011 [8 favorites]


quidnunc, I will confess to getting excited every time the Rex Morgan M.D. storyline involves him getting his boat out of storage, because that means we're probably going to get to see June in a two-piece.

And Blondie. Don't get me started about Blondie.

did i just type all that?
posted by jbickers at 9:12 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


*does a screen capture, starts making posters*

Yes, you did type all that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:14 AM on July 28, 2011


*backs slowly out of the thread without making eye contact*
posted by The Whelk at 9:17 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


The girls in Dave Berg's Mad Magazine comics haunted my early adolescence.
posted by Curious Artificer at 9:21 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


I don't get this thing where people are all like, "too many people link to X, so everybody needs to stop linking to X!" I mean, last I checked, 50% of the posts on the front page come from Kottke, and the other 50% come from Slate, and nobody ever complains about THAT.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:23 AM on July 28, 2011


(oops, wrong thread. smartphone posting, dangerous)
posted by Afroblanco at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2011


That's okay, your "data" is equally relevant in either of these threads which is to say: not very.

I can not think of a cartoon character that I thought was somewhat hot but I had an intellectual crush on that talking dog from Rocky and Bullwinkle.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:29 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Lord... the sexual comments/innuendo left in the "Arlo and Janis" comment section at GoComics whenever she wears anything but neck to toe clothing has always puzzled me. I mean, seriously? It's bad enough in Blondie and Judge Parker (the Parker strip has actually earned a rather rude nickname due to it's sporadic obsession on... erm ladies with big chests), but at least it's vaguely understandable.



Perhaps this is all a master plot to winnow the human race by the Martians, by having it slowly becoming obsessed with unreal sexual objects to the point of lower actual procreation and suchlike.
posted by edgeways at 9:30 AM on July 28, 2011


Horselover Phattie: "What's this about sex with squirrels?"

'Gettin' some tail' doesn't mean what it used to.
posted by zarq at 9:34 AM on July 28, 2011


I can do a pretty good Tennessee Tuxedo if that's anyone's kink.

I also do a decent Barney Rubble laugh. E-mail's in profile.
posted by Eideteker at 9:36 AM on July 28, 2011


Drizzle drazzle druzzle drome
Time for zis one to go bone

posted by Eideteker at 9:37 AM on July 28, 2011


the quidnunc kid: " -- Penny, from Inspector Gadget. 'Nuff said."

Heh. One of my friends has this theme running on her iPad.

And curse you... the song will be stuck in my head ALL DAY.
posted by zarq at 9:41 AM on July 28, 2011


I complain about kottke all the time. It's probably the reason he refused to make eye contact at the Shake Shack meetup. Probably.
posted by Eideteker at 9:52 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Cartoon Attraction can happen to anyone.

Sunni, call me.
posted by BeerFilter at 9:54 AM on July 28, 2011


The great thing about metatalk is that the question: "why was this link deleted?" is best answered by a group discussion on which member of Battle of the Planet's G-Force made you realise you were entering puberty.


... Keyop.

God, this feels so liberating.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 10:01 AM on July 28, 2011


BeerFilter: "Cartoon Attraction can happen to anyone."

From the comments:
if you're half asleep in front of the tv and some dude starts making references to banging the little mermaid, it might make you wake up to buy whatever crap he's selling.

posted by zarq at 10:05 AM on July 28, 2011


EMBARRASSING STORY TIME:

The very first time I had any kind of twinge of sexual desire (not that I knew what it was, of course) was while playing some Werewolf-themed MAGIC rip-off at a friend's house. One of the cards had a muscular naked man on it cut off at the fight club muscle group making a ridiculously porny face. Knowing what I know now about commercial illustrators the artist probably did just use porn for reference material but you know for SOME REASON that card was UTTERLY TRANSFIXING.

Also I swear the directors of the Grecco-Roman wing Metropolitan Museum put the more explicit male nudes right at kid level - so i'm pretty sure my first crush was Apollo The Sun God.
posted by The Whelk at 10:09 AM on July 28, 2011 [4 favorites]


That's okay, your "data" is equally relevant in either of these threads which is to say: not very.

Well, I think it's very relevant to the other thread, but if you disagree, we should disagree in the other thread so as not to compound my mistake.
posted by Afroblanco at 10:11 AM on July 28, 2011


Everyone needs to stop talking now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:12 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Winter is coming.
Winter is a person or a squirrel?


You won't find out until the seventh book, right before George R. R. Martin kills him.
posted by misha at 10:13 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


So we don't talk about your Mayor McCheese fixation Brandon?
posted by The Whelk at 10:14 AM on July 28, 2011


some Werewolf-themed MAGIC rip-off

RAGE?
posted by SpiffyRob at 10:19 AM on July 28, 2011


The Whelk: "So we don't talk about your Mayor McCheese fixation Brandon?"

There's a "Special Sauce" joke in there somewhere....
posted by zarq at 10:20 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


"... Brandon looked longingly at the soft, sesame-seeded head of Mayor McCheese, and dreamed about kissing the lucious tongue of chedder that protruded, like a calcium-rich love letter, from the politician's mouth. 'Oh, Mayor McCheese!' he cried, 'our love can never survive these new healthy food regulations that the legislature intends to enact!' 'Shhh, my little one,' the Major comforted. 'I am still Mayor of this town, and as God is my witness, and no law will ever prohibit my love for you' ..."
posted by the quidnunc kid at 10:22 AM on July 28, 2011 [5 favorites]


*turns off recorder*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:24 AM on July 28, 2011


Eidetaker, Tennessee Tuxedo was kindy geeky-sexy.

But for me, it was always Gambit, with his sexy Cajun drawl and that cocky smirk, peering with those sultry bedroom eyes from under that tousled long hair.

Lawks, it's warm in here, isn't it!
posted by misha at 10:25 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


RAGE?


AHHHHH!
posted by The Whelk at 10:27 AM on July 28, 2011


Winter is coming.
posted by Eideteker at 10:37 AM on July 28, 2011


Remember, it was June Foray who did the voices of both Rocky and Natasha Fatale (as well as Nell Fenwick on Dudley DoRight and every princess and witch on Fractured Fairy Tales). It was the most influential TV show on me growing up. Yeah, I get fan mail from some flounder...

June is still alive and doing cartoon voices and IMO a hotter old lady than Betty White... I think I've said enough...
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:53 AM on July 28, 2011


If it's any comfort, The Whelk, there was this one freckle-faced shewerewolf in Rage who I thought was (in her human form, at least) just impossibly cute in a "why doesn't she go to my highschool" sort of way.

There was also a punkrocker Brujah vampire in Jyhad who did, in fact, look a lot like a girl I went to school with, but "hey you resemble a pallid freaked out vampire in a roleplaying card game I play" never really found a way into conversation.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:07 AM on July 28, 2011


I find it amusing that just a couple days ago, I was taking pictures of the new Rocky and Bullwinkle themed seaplane on lake union.

synchronicity isn't just a police song.
posted by nomisxid at 11:11 AM on July 28, 2011


Wow, you just linked to your own flickr account. Christ, man, did you not pay attention to the point of this whole MeTa thread?
posted by Eideteker at 11:19 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


but "hey you resemble a pallid freaked out vampire in a roleplaying card game I play" never really found a way into conversation.

That's funny, it's worked its way into a lot of my EXTREMELY SHORT conversations.
posted by Errant at 11:21 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


Here, take this Rocky and Bullwinkle comic and chill out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:21 AM on July 28, 2011


in her human form, at least

PREJUDICE!
posted by Wolfdog at 11:33 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: getting excited every time the Rex Morgan M.D. storyline involves him getting his boat out of storage
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 11:39 AM on July 28, 2011


Finally a place for me to finally confess my teenage love for Milo on Bloom County. In fact one of my high school crushes was nicknamed Milo because he looked strikingly like the character. (Later, I went on a single date with a guy nicknamed Opus. Wings that work wasn't the only thing he was wishing for.)
posted by miss-lapin at 11:40 AM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Let me guess: He was also wishing for a herring whopper, heavy mayo.
posted by Wolfdog at 11:55 AM on July 28, 2011 [4 favorites]


Peppermint patty. Bill the Cat (two condoms). The She Hulk with the half shirt and the sick abs. Oh man, I just self-linked my teenage id. Gross.
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:58 AM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]



If it's any comfort, The Whelk, there was this one freckle-faced shewerewolf in Rage who I thought was (in her human form, at least) just impossibly cute in a "why doesn't she go to my highschool" sort of way.


Between this and the voice thing I'm getting worried. Thank goodness I have zero interest in rouge-likes or math.
posted by The Whelk at 12:14 PM on July 28, 2011


This thread taught me the word concomitant.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:30 PM on July 28, 2011


A friend of mine randomly revealed to me her preteen sexual attraction to Danger Mouse the other day, apropos of absolutely nothing. I countered by explaining the special underpants feelings I had as a young lass when gazing raptly at Wonder Woman's tiny blue shorts and sassy red boots, and a good time was had by all.
posted by elizardbits at 12:32 PM on July 28, 2011 [3 favorites]


Wonder Woman wore boots?
posted by zarq at 12:33 PM on July 28, 2011


This thread taught me the phrase "special underpants feeling."

Thank you!
posted by ltracey at 12:34 PM on July 28, 2011 [6 favorites]


What was up with Wonder Woman and the Invisible Jet? How did you she know if the tank was empty? What speed she was going? How did she even know it existed?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:43 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also some guys just want to see a flying, squatting woman.
posted by The Whelk at 1:00 PM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


rouge-likes

Is pinching considered a rouge-like, or does it have to be a substance applied to the face (like, say, iron oxide)?
posted by Eideteker at 1:19 PM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


I never had a crush on a cartoon character, but one of my very first crushes was on a character in a painting. My grandparents had a framed reproduction of Edwin Austin Abbey's painting "Cordelia's Farewell" in their living room and I had a giant crush on Cordelia. Which is pretty fucking pretentious, but what're you gonna do.

That very same framed reproduction is now hanging in my bedroom.

Please don't tell my wife how I feel about it.

Also, I always wanted a dog as good as Lear's faithful hound in that painting. Instead, I have a million cats, which seem much more like the kind of pets Regan and Goneril would have. Those bitches.

posted by dersins at 1:25 PM on July 28, 2011


Is pinching considered a rouge-like, or does it have to be a substance applied to the face (like, say, iron oxide)?

It depends if you're going for the for the "Au Naturale" ascension or not.
posted by griphus at 1:31 PM on July 28, 2011


or if you're a whore

(ladies pinch)
posted by The Whelk at 1:32 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is exactly how a Friday afternoon MeTa thread should go.
posted by Aizkolari at 1:33 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


wait it's friday?

shiiiiiiiit
posted by The Whelk at 1:35 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


you bastard it is thursday

oh god the betrayal
posted by elizardbits at 1:38 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


oh thank god I'm not involuntarily time traveling again.
posted by The Whelk at 1:43 PM on July 28, 2011


take off those tardis pants before you get yourself into trouble
posted by elizardbits at 1:45 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


"oh thank god I'm not involuntarily time traveling again."

No, that doesn't happen until Friday.
posted by Eideteker at 1:54 PM on July 28, 2011


oh dear, it's raining again.
posted by griphus at 2:03 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


this is indeed a disturbing universe.
posted by The Whelk at 2:04 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


It IS Friday!
posted by malibustacey9999 at 2:06 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Let's just say that if I ever meet with up with Helen Parr's hips stuck in an elevator, I'm inviting them up to my room for coffee no matter hour it is.
posted by Dano St at 2:27 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


No, it was Friday. It won't be Friday again until at least next Tuesday.
posted by Eideteker at 2:29 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


I need a bow-tie for this discussion
posted by The Whelk at 2:30 PM on July 28, 2011


or some sassy boots.
posted by elizardbits at 2:32 PM on July 28, 2011


Oh Zonker, my one true love, my great love since I was about 12 and saw you there in my friends' old Doonesbury book, talking to your plants and refusing to get a job. I love you Zonker, even though it occurs to me that this love might explain a lot of what has gone wrong with my life over the years. Oh well!

Gambit is also sexy as hell - easier to imagine in the bedroom, less likely to make a good live in.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:40 PM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


My first love was definitely a cartoon character.
posted by unSane at 3:19 PM on July 28, 2011


Nova. Star Blazers. Enough said.
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:52 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is obviously the right place to mention, yet again, how much I love Donald Duck.
posted by h00py at 4:21 PM on July 28, 2011


in what way?
posted by The Whelk at 4:47 PM on July 28, 2011


Princess Jasmine
Ty Lee
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:02 PM on July 28, 2011


Cheetara the Thundercat
Kitty Pryde
Calvin's Mom

You are welcome.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:15 PM on July 28, 2011


Electrawoman AND Dynagirl.

So there!
posted by Sophie1 at 5:26 PM on July 28, 2011


i think penelope pitstop is awfully cute
posted by pyramid termite at 5:46 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Linus van Pelt
Milo Bloom
Speed Racer
Racer X
Mr. Peabody
posted by ersatzkat at 5:50 PM on July 28, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh! And the girls of 3-2-1 Contact!
posted by Rock Steady at 6:15 PM on July 28, 2011


Mr. Peabody

His relationship with Sherman was kinda weird.
posted by jonmc at 6:22 PM on July 28, 2011


What not to do with Flickr links.
posted by bwg at 6:39 PM on July 28, 2011 [2 favorites]


Oh My God.

I just realized that mr.likeso has a more than passing resemblance to Schroeder.
posted by likeso at 7:26 PM on July 28, 2011


wait it's friday?

Yup. here in Tokyo.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:29 PM on July 28, 2011


Fuck, was it Thursday yesterday? I guess I should probably be at work now.
posted by Aizkolari at 4:14 AM on July 29, 2011


Is this the right place to confess my unholy attraction to the Confused.com mascot?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:22 AM on July 29, 2011


miss lynnster is still around? Yay!

She's having a tough time of it? BOO!!!

But she's still around!! YAY!!

[And thus, we conclude this example of how quin's priorities filter information in metatalk threads.]
posted by quin at 7:31 AM on July 29, 2011


Happy Tuesday everyone!
posted by The Whelk at 7:59 AM on July 29, 2011


Who could hang a name on you?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:13 AM on July 29, 2011


Monday, Monday... can't trust that day.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:14 AM on July 29, 2011




"Happy Tuesday, everyone!"

Sorry, but Tuesday's gone.
posted by Eideteker at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2011


Ms Sara Bellum gives me a special underpants feeling and I am 43 years old.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:32 PM on July 29, 2011


I think I just wrote a semi-okay and not embarrassing mermaid character so champers all around folks.
posted by The Whelk at 7:44 PM on July 29, 2011


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