Let's talk about anarchism December 2, 2011 11:41 AM   Subscribe

I disagree with this deletion. I think the subject would have deserved a thread of its own, as it wasn't just another story about the movement, it was an interesting piece on its own right.

Yes, I know there's been a whole bunch of Occupy threads on the blue lately, but not only was this one (IMO) the best one in weeks, I think the piece is also an important one since it clearly spells out the principles behind the Occupy protests -- something that many people (me included) have been confounded by, as evidenced for instance by the posters thread from a couple of days ago.
posted by daniel_charms to Etiquette/Policy at 11:41 AM (115 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

Cortex, This is for you...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:43 AM on December 2, 2011 [9 favorites]


The topic's being dealt with pretty well in another thread right now. Different article, but similar discussion. I totally get where you are coming from, but the site is sort of drowning in OWS posts and a topic that would otherwise be totally 100% interesting and okay starts to be a problem when it's a single link to an article on a topic that's already being discussed. I know it's tough to stay abreast of all of it, we have the same problems, but it's not different enough, at this point, to be its own thread. There are many many important topics right now in the OWS umbrella. They can't all have their own threads here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:44 AM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


OWS and anarchism actually does have a thread of its own. We're trying to keep the OWS barrage down as much as possible so it doesn't totally take over the site, which is proving to be a rather difficult task.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:44 AM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


Yes, I know there's been a whole bunch of Occupy threads on the blue lately

Yes, there has. Probably literally one or more every day, for a while. It's a lot. I'd say it's too much, in fact, even just looking at what hasn't been removed, but we're trying to run a compromise line on this where we don't go into full-on hack-and-slash mode.

An article on the principles of the Occupy movement would be a really, really natural addition to this post from two days ago about the principles of the Occupy movement, or maybe in this one from three days earlier.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:46 AM on December 2, 2011 [5 favorites]


We don't need multiple FPPs specifically on the intersection of Occupy Wall Street and anarachism within less than a week.
posted by John Cohen at 11:48 AM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


or anarchism.
posted by John Cohen at 11:48 AM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


OWS and anarchism actually does have a thread of its own. We're trying to keep the OWS barrage down as much as possible so it doesn't totally take over the site, which is proving to be a rather difficult task.

Bummer, I searched for "occupy" and checked all the posts from the past month or so, but I must have missed that one. And it was about the same guy as well.
posted by daniel_charms at 11:51 AM on December 2, 2011


the intersection of Occupy Wall Street and misspelled spider overlords would be interesting.. if only it was that
posted by edgeways at 11:52 AM on December 2, 2011 [7 favorites]


Still, I blame someone else other than me for this.
posted by daniel_charms at 11:53 AM on December 2, 2011 [35 favorites]


My righteous indignation, all ruined!
posted by daniel_charms at 11:53 AM on December 2, 2011 [9 favorites]


The linked article is pretty much a ripoff of this one. (Which is longer, and better written, and came out first.)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:55 AM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh please, must you really make this situation any more embarrassing than it already is?
posted by daniel_charms at 11:56 AM on December 2, 2011


This is what democracy looks like.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:57 AM on December 2, 2011 [15 favorites]


Sort of.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:58 AM on December 2, 2011 [11 favorites]


Fuck democracy, I'm becoming a hardcore monarchist.
posted by daniel_charms at 11:59 AM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


OCCUPY 'OCCUPY' METADISCUSSION
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:01 PM on December 2, 2011 [20 favorites]


I was just discussing this with another Mefite and he pointed out a few facts. There have been 27 posts under the OWS tag, 32 with the occupywallstreet tag since October 11th. No doubt there's some crossover between the tags, but I'm finding it hard to believe that there's that many angles to the movement that have yet to be covered.

I am personally done with OWS on Metafilter. Unless there's some fresh new angle or development about the movement, please find something else to post about. Could whoever enjoys these posts get together and something new about the subject? OWS and anarchism, hasn't that been obvious since the first day, wtf?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:04 PM on December 2, 2011 [4 favorites]


daniel_charms, congrats on accepting that your metatalk post was a doofus metatalk post with superior wit, and, dare I say, charm.
posted by Kwine at 12:05 PM on December 2, 2011 [17 favorites]


I read it as "OWS and anachronism"
*sigh*
posted by pointystick at 12:05 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


There have been a lot of Occupy threads lately. Osama and Occupy and LA Occupy eviction just yesterday I think. So ya, let's not let it dominate the front page completely..
posted by Chuckles at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


DId I just say Osama and Occupy, oh my god.... Obama and Occupy, I mean... You can tell what was on my mind :)
posted by Chuckles at 12:10 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


Careful there, Chuckles, or you'll find yourself with a Republican nomination for president.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2011 [9 favorites]


OWS and anarchism, hasn't that been obvious since the first day, wtf?!

You know, for some reason, I only became aware of this just a few days ago, despite reading and hearing about the Occupy movement both here on the blue and other media. It could be that it was so obvious to everyone else that nobody ever thought about spelling it out, but at least here, on this side of the pond (and in this particular country I'm living in), there's been lots of confusion about the whole thing; people generally seem to think it's either just spoiled kids who don't want to pay off any of the loans they've taken to be able to live in comfort, or just people unhappy with the government policies.
posted by daniel_charms at 12:18 PM on December 2, 2011


Surely I can't have been the only one?
posted by daniel_charms at 12:20 PM on December 2, 2011


"We've got a bunch of OWS threads already" I totally agree with that!
posted by Blake at 12:21 PM on December 2, 2011


Occpuy MetaFilter. BYOB
posted by Sailormom at 12:24 PM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


On the plus side, these posts are keeping the Republican Primary off the site for the most part. Did you know that the first caucus is a month from tomorrow?
posted by smackfu at 12:41 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


... and another one.
posted by empath at 12:42 PM on December 2, 2011


"OWS and anachronism"

I'm not a huge fan of this neo-gilded-age-robber-baron retro fetish the people in power have.
posted by The Whelk at 12:43 PM on December 2, 2011 [4 favorites]


I think that I might've been also quite surprised by the strong anarchic undercurrent of OWS movement, weren't it for MetaFilter. The mainstream media outlets, unfortunately both traditional and internet ones, fail to report properly on it.
posted by hat_eater at 12:43 PM on December 2, 2011


Blake: You know, the funny thing is, that's exactly what I thought until today. But when that thread got deleted* and I decided to write this post here, I started to see things differently. It ceased to be a problem for me. I no longer saw them as "more of the same"; instead I saw them as different posts, some more interesting than others, that just happened to be related to the same topic. It was as if I was reading a whole different Metafilter. And now... well, I've become a bit more lenient about it and won't flag Occupy threads as much anymore, but I see your (and the mods') perspective and I understand how a balance must be found what the current hot topic is (like OWS) and what people would find interesting in the long term (good posts in general).

* Note that had cortex mentioned that it was sort of a double, the deletion wouldn't have bothered me and this thread here wouldn't exist. Funny how big a difference a small thing like this can make.
posted by daniel_charms at 12:44 PM on December 2, 2011


We don't need multiple FPPs specifically on the intersection of Occupy Wall Street and anarachism within less than a week.

I'm still waiting for a post on the intersection of Occupy Wall Street and anorakism.
posted by Copronymus at 12:49 PM on December 2, 2011


Also, while we're here, I have, after a decade-long fascination with social democracy and the more moderate currents of Marxism, started to regain my interest in the philosophy of radicalism. Can anyone here recommend any good books on the subject?
posted by daniel_charms at 12:59 PM on December 2, 2011


MetaTalk: I blame someone other than me for this.
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:02 PM on December 2, 2011 [7 favorites]


Radicalism from the horse's mouth.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:03 PM on December 2, 2011


It's unfortunate how the word anarchy has come to be conflated with chaos and violence. It's probably damaged goods by this point and any well-meaning anarchist should try for a shiny new term like "decentralist" or something.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:05 PM on December 2, 2011


Perhaps some music from Radical Posture?
posted by mintcake! at 1:07 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is the closest I've ever gotten to being called out on Metatalk, but I'm cool with the deletion. The massive multilink OWS posts are generally too much for me to digest, which is probably why I didn't see the horizontal democracy FPP. I can definitely see that it should have gone there given site policy.
posted by anotherpanacea at 1:10 PM on December 2, 2011


Greg Downey has a nice article about Graeber with lots and lots of links. (It may have been linked to in the Horizontal Democracy thread already.)
posted by nangar at 1:10 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's unfortunate how the word anarchy has come to be conflated with chaos and violence

I was told it meant to get pissed and destroy. Possibloy.
posted by Hoopo at 1:19 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


pointystick: I read it as "OWS and anachronism"
*sigh*


This is the post we need.
posted by owtytrof at 1:21 PM on December 2, 2011


Hooray, finally a deletion callout that isn't picking on taz!
posted by Melismata at 1:23 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


i heard taz's hair is insured for $10,000
posted by elizardbits at 1:27 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


We're trying to keep the OWS barrage down as much as possible so it doesn't totally take over the site.

Occupy MetaFilter!
posted by ericb at 1:32 PM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


Melismata: Hooray, finally a deletion callout that isn't picking on taz!

It's part of the 1%.
posted by gman at 1:35 PM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


It's part of the 1%.

Wouldn't this mean that taz is also part of the 1%, though?

(I really like taz, so I would rather prefer that this derail end here.)
posted by daniel_charms at 1:48 PM on December 2, 2011


I sympathize with what I gather are your feelings in this, daniel-charms, but I do think Metafilter has done a truly excellent job with OWS.
posted by jamjam at 2:19 PM on December 2, 2011


any well-meaning anarchist should try for a shiny new term like "decentralist" or something.

Fervent anti-capitalist doesn't have the same ring to it somehow. There are a lot of other options for names, but the rich tradition is pretty mush specific to that word which, like many other descriptive words [Christian, vegetarian, feminist, masochist &c] contain multitudes. People want to use sloppy shorthand, that's sort of their own problem.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:33 PM on December 2, 2011 [3 favorites]


A better Metafilter is possible!
posted by gingerbeer at 2:40 PM on December 2, 2011


IN THE OFF WORLD COLONIES
posted by The Whelk at 2:45 PM on December 2, 2011 [4 favorites]


A chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!
posted by killdevil at 2:55 PM on December 2, 2011


Radicalism from the horse's mouth.

Viking Radicalism?
posted by Jahaza at 2:58 PM on December 2, 2011


OCCUPY MY NOSE
posted by angrycat at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2011


(sorry, grading papers and its making me craazzeeeeee)
posted by angrycat at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


it's! it's! fuck! FUCK
posted by angrycat at 3:07 PM on December 2, 2011


What is fuck?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:14 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


this sounds like a job for the img tag.
posted by elizardbits at 3:18 PM on December 2, 2011


People will just post ASCII dicks anyway.
posted by Burhanistan at 3:19 PM on December 2, 2011


Burhanistan, I have a little more faith in mefites' collective maturity than that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:25 PM on December 2, 2011


ASCII and ye shall receive

…………………...„„-~^^~„-„„_
………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : : *-„
…………..„-* : : :„„--/ : : : : : : : '\
…………./ : : „-* . .| : : : : : : : : '|
……….../ : „-* . . . | : : : : : : : : |
………...\„-* . . . . .| : : : : : : : :'|
……….../ . . . . . . '| : : : : : : : :|
……..../ . . . . . . . .'\ : : : : : : : |
……../ . . . . . . . . . .\ : : : : : : :|
……./ . . . . . . . . . . . '\ : : : : : /
….../ . . . . . . . . . . . . . *-„„„„-
….'/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . '|
…/ . . . . . . . ./ . . . . . . .|
../ . . . . . . . .'/ . . . . . . .'|
./ . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . .'|
'/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .'|
'| . . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .|
'| . . . . . . \„_^- „ . . . . .'|
'| . . . . . . . . .'\ .\ ./ '/ . |
| .\ . . . . . . . . . \ .'' / . '|
| . . . . . . . . . . / .' /. . .|
| . . . . . . .| . . / ./ ./ . .|
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:27 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


penile varicose veins, that's not good
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:28 PM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:37 PM on December 2, 2011


Gives it penile character.
posted by angrycat at 3:38 PM on December 2, 2011


Fervent anti-capitalist doesn't have the same ring to it somehow. There are a lot of other options for names, but the rich tradition is pretty mush specific to that word

OTOH, I know people whom I would describe as anarchists, but who identify as autonomists or libertarian socialists. Those terms have their own baggage, but the connotations are reasonably close to "anarchist" and they share some of the same history (much more so than a neologism like "decentralist").
posted by twirlip at 3:38 PM on December 2, 2011


Better see someone about that hypospadia.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:39 PM on December 2, 2011


I support OWS 100%, but I sure don't understand why there needs to be a bazillion posts on the topic. But then, I've always been an anti-newsfilter grouch, so there's that.

I guess I've never understood how people use MeFi in comparison to their other regular sites. I spend more than half of my time on the web reading news/politics/opinion sites and I've never felt that MeFi was a good place to come for news. I guess I can see that people would want to discuss the news here because the discussion is so much better than elsewhere...but my feeling has always been that the discussions in the news threads are where MeFi comes perilously close to being a waste of time, like everywhere else, for the usual reasons. So, all in all, it's just not at all what I come here for.

And it's not what it was designed for. It's not what it mostly does. And there's so many other places which do exactly that.

But this has all been said before. All this has happened before. All this will happen again.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:40 PM on December 2, 2011


All this has happened before. All this will happen again.

Too soon!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:42 PM on December 2, 2011


So if you read Marisa's comment and you're inspired to check wikipedia, be warned that their picture is very not ASCII.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:43 PM on December 2, 2011


They should call it Double Barreled Rifle Syndrome.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:44 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


Why did I take villanelles at dawn's warning as a challenge. Have I learned nothing on the Internet?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 4:14 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?

It's a weta.
posted by scalefree at 4:44 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


In my defense, I only learned about this condition when a former room-mate of mine decided to share his condition with us all while we were watching Spice World. I don't know how the subject came up, or why it was important to him that we know this detail about him, but he seemed to feel about after opening up.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:47 PM on December 2, 2011


Feel better about it after opening up, that is.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:47 PM on December 2, 2011


STOP SAYING OPENING UP!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:48 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?

I'm not sure. I only took a quick glans at it.
posted by argonauta at 4:51 PM on December 2, 2011 [12 favorites]


I think even after a cursory look you can see a vas deferens between the two.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:53 PM on December 2, 2011 [12 favorites]


I see a stinkhorn!
posted by TedW at 5:07 PM on December 2, 2011


Hey! I washed.
posted by Splunge at 5:08 PM on December 2, 2011


Ahh, I see. Well, the next step is to see if it'll be my new Facebook frenulum.
posted by argonauta at 5:17 PM on December 2, 2011


I turn my back for one second....
posted by The Whelk at 5:22 PM on December 2, 2011



I was just discussing this with another Mefite and he pointed out a few facts.



and who was that, pray tell ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:23 PM on December 2, 2011


While we're on this subject, have I ever told you how poorly engineered I feel the male reproduction system is? Apart from the obvious disadvantage of external testes, there's also the fact that the aforementioned vas deferens runs in front of the pubic bone. A bit like riding a motorcycle while sitting on your helmet, don't you think? Wonder whose bright idea that was.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:25 PM on December 2, 2011 [2 favorites]


The same person who put the female input right next to the fecal outlet?
posted by Splunge at 5:41 PM on December 2, 2011


I disagree with this deletion. Okay, so it was a double and at the posters request, but it was post number 110000 for goodness sake.
posted by unliteral at 5:49 PM on December 2, 2011


Yeah, we were a little bummed about that too. All these zeros, lost...like tears in the rain.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:52 PM on December 2, 2011 [4 favorites]


But at least we can now all bookmark it, as a sort of browser memorial to visit for times of reflection and contemplation.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 5:54 PM on December 2, 2011


Fiery the angels fell. Deep thunder rolled around their shoulders... burning with the fires of Orc.
posted by edgeways at 5:54 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm giving a techtalk in the Nebaraska dental institute on this very subject actually -

along with fellow mefites Larpgyrl, Hipster-with-beard and CottageBear.


podcast to follow shortly.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:34 PM on December 2, 2011


I turn my back for one second....

I put on my robe and wizard hat.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:38 PM on December 2, 2011


i see a rabbit.
posted by ifjuly at 8:04 PM on December 2, 2011


Nothing up my sleeve
posted by Sailormom at 8:11 PM on December 2, 2011


Anarchism, Spain, and OWS are among my favorite things, but yes this belonged inside an existing thread.

There are however nice historical topics in anarchism that might make a nice thread at some point, provided the eventual OWS derail could be averted for few hours.

Just fyi, we've missed out on interesting protect stuff in South America. And the Occupy LA eviction only appeared well afterwards.
posted by jeffburdges at 8:43 PM on December 2, 2011


Damn guys, it is like you don't want us to have any fun at all.

Okay, I am way behind on my Voyager schedule anyway.
posted by Ad hominem at 9:30 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


Damn you guys, I go away for a few hours and you start posting ascii dicks in my thread.
posted by daniel_charms at 10:15 PM on December 2, 2011


I know, there should an alarm system, I didn't want to miss it, damn.
posted by The Whelk at 10:16 PM on December 2, 2011


I think someone sent up the Bat Signal on that. Or maybe I'm just thinking of summer camp.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:52 PM on December 2, 2011


That doesn't mean we can't tie this into the discussion of anarchism, though. See, if we take Rousseau's theory of the natural state of man and our current (or maybe not so current anymore) ideas on human evolution, we can propose the hypothesis that the natural state was the one before men started to walk upright. In this natural state - which, needless to say, was a state of anarchy - there was of course no violence and no oppression, since the male testes were better protected and nobody would have to feel threatened. And everything went downhill when men started walking upright. From this it follows that to restore the golden age of primeval anarchy, we should do away with this nonsense of walking and sitting upright, and start moving around on all fours again.
posted by daniel_charms at 11:31 PM on December 2, 2011 [1 favorite]


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?

It's not a guy in a welding mask?
posted by pracowity at 12:26 AM on December 3, 2011


I personally thought it was a sad dog.
posted by daniel_charms at 12:30 AM on December 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


The "anarchist" movement in Seattle ran aground when a bunch of white anarchists claimed an African-American-owned house in the Central District as their own.

Serioisly, WTF??
posted by SakuraK at 12:39 AM on December 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


I thought it was a bunny. (*shame face*)
posted by Lynsey at 1:29 AM on December 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


What is fuck?!

oh man, does this bring back memories. When I was a college student, I volunteered to help Bosnian refugees with their English. I was assigned to a family of four (one of the children, an 11-year-old daughter, had just had a kidney transplant which had been donated by her father. Sadly, the kidney had failed and now both her and her dad now had one kidney) and they often had many people over to visit who were also refugees.

Although I was asked by the refugee resettlement agency to try to visit at least an hour a week, often these visits were longer and more frequent because they were so enjoyable (not to mention Turkish coffee will keep you awake!). One evening their apartment was packed and the kids had gone to bed, which of course meant everyone got to ask the English teacher their most pressing questions:

"Where I work, all the people all the time say "fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck." What is fuck?!"
posted by Wuggie Norple at 1:30 AM on December 3, 2011 [6 favorites]


Let me take this moment to apologize for all those times I've derailed threads.
posted by angrycat at 8:11 AM on December 3, 2011


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?

I don't see a foreskin.

Fascists!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:10 AM on December 3, 2011


It's a penis fly trap.
posted by Sailormom at 5:42 PM on December 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?

If you tilt your head to the right, you see a sleeping puppy. With its wittle, bitty paws crossed over its chest.

Try it!
posted by jeanmari at 5:48 PM on December 3, 2011


ASCII art as the new Rorschach test -- do you see a penis or a giant fly?
It kind of looks like a sheep. Standing on it's hind legs with its forelegs crossed in front of it.
posted by dg at 3:00 PM on December 4, 2011


It's not as if I never expected that a metatalk thread would derail into a discussion of my penis, but I never imagined it quite like this.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:10 PM on December 4, 2011


It's not as if I never expected that a metatalk thread would derail into a discussion of my penis, but I never imagined it quite like this.

Why, did you imagine the thread would be... bigger? But it's perfect just as it is! No one really likes the ones that are bigger, that's just a myth! Really! It's gorgeous! And it's what you do with it that really counts.
posted by argonauta at 4:22 PM on December 4, 2011


No, you really do need some girth to do things properly. I mean, I get the whole trying to spare people's feelings things, but let's be real.
posted by Burhanistan at 4:25 PM on December 4, 2011


But, how much is 'some'?
posted by dg at 5:27 PM on December 4, 2011


Enough to get it done properly, of course.
posted by Burhanistan at 5:30 PM on December 4, 2011


The Lizard was right. We really do need the img tag.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:55 PM on December 4, 2011


Truly, this thread has descended into petty hooliganism.
posted by daniel_charms at 10:34 PM on December 4, 2011


It's Anarchy, I tells ya!
posted by dg at 11:29 PM on December 4, 2011


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