TL;DR January 4, 2012 7:35 AM   Subscribe

Is tl;dr a MetaFilter thing?

That is, I just saw it on a random blogpost and it made me wonder if there was a connection or whether the term is simply another bit of slang from the webz. I'm asking because I know we had a tshirt for sale with it (though I of course bought the hugs one) and this made me wonder if its use in the blogpost meant whether I could assume the writer was a mefite thus not sure if appropriate to link poor random blogger here or no
posted by infini to MetaFilter-Related at 7:35 AM (142 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

It's from the web, not necessarily here. Cite.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


I see it all over the place, so it's definitely not just a Metafilter thing, nor was it started here (as far as I know).
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2012


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tldr
posted by Burhanistan at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2012


Yeah, it's more a thing-that-caught-on-around-here thing than anything specific to Metafilter. Others were tl;dring before we ever had a shirt.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:38 AM on January 4, 2012


I have the shirt, but it's a pain in the ass to explain to outsiders.

I think we should have a DTMFA shirt. We could wear it to romantic restaurants and date movies.
posted by desjardins at 7:41 AM on January 4, 2012 [16 favorites]


MetaFilter mascot? Please?
posted by Wolfdog at 7:46 AM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


I see it all over the place, so it's definitely not just a Metafilter thing, nor was it started here (as far as I know).

My first time actually, so might it be US internet slang or Bay Area type of thing (i.e. not geographically but in that those really into the innards of the web) and a recent (since 2007 that is) emergence ?

Or, I'm just hanging out at the wrong places once I leave here.
posted by infini at 7:48 AM on January 4, 2012


I saw it back on the Dumbrella boards at least as early as 2004. It's been around a long time.
posted by introp at 7:52 AM on January 4, 2012


So, how about that Santorum, huh?
posted by Burhanistan at 8:00 AM on January 4, 2012


I don't see what on earth that comment has to do with this thread. Oh wait... ;-)
posted by gman at 8:03 AM on January 4, 2012


Life must be terribly difficult and hard.
posted by infini at 8:06 AM on January 4, 2012


To quote Hobbes, it is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short".
posted by daniel_charms at 8:13 AM on January 4, 2012


(in other words, the opposite of tl;dr)
posted by daniel_charms at 8:15 AM on January 4, 2012


2004 ? Puh lease, it was common on LJ when LJ started. Using it in the SA forums in 2000-2001 would get you in trouble ..
posted by k5.user at 8:19 AM on January 4, 2012


Td;df

Too full; didn't feed
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


td;de

too dull; didn't eat
posted by daniel_charms at 8:21 AM on January 4, 2012


Tw;dr

Two wrongs; didn't right.
posted by The Whelk at 8:25 AM on January 4, 2012 [19 favorites]


ok;te

oh kay; that's enough
posted by daniel_charms at 8:27 AM on January 4, 2012


And why the hell was Doc Brown in such a damned hurry to get back to the future? Dude has all the time in the world.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:31 AM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


All the time in the world, yet he kept on getting older. Sort of the anti-fountain of youth.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on January 4, 2012


In 2011, the Wikimedia Foundation hired me as its volunteer development coordinator, to work with the MediaWiki development community. In May, I met for the first time two of my colleagues who had related jobs in the engineering department: the bugtracker manager, Mark, and the technical communications manager, Guillaume. Our team needed a name, and my boss Rob and I together decided on Technical Liaisons and Developer Relations, or, the TL;DR group.

I am now the team lead for TL;DR. I love my job.
posted by brainwane at 8:41 AM on January 4, 2012 [13 favorites]


how far east can you go before ur heading west
posted by gman at 8:41 AM on January 4, 2012


Surely tl;dr started on Usenet?
posted by Happy Dave at 8:41 AM on January 4, 2012 [3 favorites]




TL;Dr is the tragic story of a woman whose impressive medical qualifications were never enough to save her from the scandal of having no actual names, only initials. It's a tale as old as the internet, but it bears repeating - and I, for one, am heartened to see MeFites remember TL by repeating her story, again and again, in their comments. TL had to fight her way into medical school - the application form was simply not designed for someone with such minimal nomenclature. One she was admitted, however, she excelled in all her classes and graduated with highest honours. But her career as a doctor suffered terribly from the fact that patients demanded to be treated by someone with an actual name, and preferably two - a first and a last. Despairing of advancement in her profession, she wandered the highways and byways of America, dispensing free medical advice and attending to impromptu amputations. Then one day she met Doctor Who, a colleague whose practice was incredibly successful, despite his not having any names either. She married the Time-Lord and they settled down and had seventeen children, none of whom were given names, genders or any birthday presents, ever. Eventually the anonymous brood turned on their parents to protest their featurelessness, and boiled TL;Dr in a vat of her own vomit. Nowadays the memory of her loss is so painful that we can only remember her in a four-letter, one-punctuation mark tribute, like "tl;dr" or "Fuck!" - but we all know that the moral of the story is: don't ever have children. They are assholes.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:46 AM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


No, it just feels that way sometimes.
posted by Hoopo at 8:48 AM on January 4, 2012


MetaTalk: boiled TL;Dr in a vat of her own vomit.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:49 AM on January 4, 2012


Others were tl;dring before we ever had a shirt.

Is it just me, or does tl;dring sound like a character from a particularly uninspired fantasy novel? Maybe Tl;dring? tl;Dring?
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:52 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tl'Dring
posted by daniel_charms at 9:01 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


It may not have been invented here at Metafilter, but we pursue the concept as if it were an art form.
posted by crunchland at 9:08 AM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


This thread is getting kind of long: could somebody please summarize it for me?
posted by Shepherd at 9:14 AM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


It is most definitely not a Metafilter thing. I can't recall when I first saw it but it was many years ago and not on Metafilter.

tl;dr: no.
posted by Decani at 9:15 AM on January 4, 2012


I'm embarrassed to say that I used to think the Underpants Gnome profit plan gag had its origins on MeFi.

Apparently that's something you have to have a television to understand.
posted by brundlefly at 9:16 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Apparently that's something you have to have a television to understand.

That's OK, tl;dr is something you need a short attention span or a very busy schedule to understand. Well, a dollop of snarky dismissiveness helps, too.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:19 AM on January 4, 2012


So why wasn't shipbreaker banned?
posted by slogger at 9:23 AM on January 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


this made me wonder if its use in the blogpost meant whether I could assume the writer was a mefite thus not sure if appropriate to link poor random blogger here or no

ma;ma*

*MeTa attempted; Markov achieved
posted by heyho at 9:24 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


The semicolon makes me think it's a Metafilter thing. Anywhere else would have gone with TLDR, or TL,DR at best.
posted by alby at 9:29 AM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


tl;lt

Too Loose; Le Trec
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:29 AM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


tl;dr Kids think they invented the concept of summarization.
posted by Aquaman at 9:40 AM on January 4, 2012


Wasn't DTMFA originally a Dan Savage thing? Even so surely there are some metafilter-original-and-endemic memes. Beanplating? I kind of love that one.
posted by zomg at 9:44 AM on January 4, 2012


Yeah I'd really like to vote against a DTMFA shirt, it will 100% be associated with the Savage Love column and I don't think he needs the free promotion.
posted by hermitosis at 9:59 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah I'd really like to vote against a DTMFA shirt

Depends if we can get an illustration
posted by shothotbot at 10:00 AM on January 4, 2012


In the old time tl;dr was not used to introduce a summary, more as an irreverent reply to some blogger posting essays in the middle of a casual conversation, iirc.
posted by dhoe at 10:01 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


DTMFDTMFAA
posted by hermitosis at 10:07 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter mascot? Please?


I'd buy that shirt.

And a DTMFA shirt with a good illustration.
posted by patheral at 10:12 AM on January 4, 2012


too lame; didn't react

wait...
posted by Namlit at 10:12 AM on January 4, 2012


The entry from the Something Awful encyclopedia says:
Posted by rivetz on February 12, 2004
Abbreviation of "too long ; didn't read". Used when appropriate in response to lengthy and rambling E/N posts, this catchphrase saw some heated usage in early 2003 before mercifully being added to the lexicon of hated responses and instantly bannable thread contributions.
posted by smackfu at 10:30 AM on January 4, 2012


Upon seeing your comment, my first reaction was one of excitement, but tempered with equal measures of trepidation, skepticism, and the wrinkled-forehead sensation of a raised eyebrow. Why was this person commenting now, and not at some other time? Why was this person using these exact words, instead of similar words with equal meaning, or instead of altogether different words with a comparable meaning, or even instead of a set of words indicating a meaning altogether opposite, to say nothing of instead producing a series of grunts and squawks which mean nothing except themselves and a general rejection of human grammaire. The length of the comment had also made me suspicious, as would not a truth require no preparation whatsoever, whereas the most base of lies and circumlocutions would require additional leaps and bounds and detours and curves and hidden tunnels and false doors and optical illusions and fleshy, protruding hernias emitting a faint glow? And so it was for this reason, as well for innumerable other reasons, that I weighed the option of not reading the comment at all. But then I cocked my head slightly to the left, my fingers deftly stroking my chin as I narrowed my eyes and hummed a sonorous tone of thinking-thought, and then I turned my head to the right, as I continued to stroke my chin, but then with my other, more claw-like hand, I began to scratch my head, and I then my hum turned into two harmonious hums as a chord, and then finally I turned my head entirely upside-down, my third hand delicately stroking the tip of my nose as my two hums were joined by a third hum, the three tones forming the grating, dissonant sound known as the diabolus in musica, that accursed tritone which at one point plagued not only music, but also the Catholic Church, and it was at that moment that I finally resolved to not finish reading the entire comment, but to instead let a fourth hand emerge, one which lovingly stroked my own wet puckered mouth, and to let a fourth hum drone behind the tritone in a tone below the human register, in an inaudible infrasound which triggers a massive of diarrhea, the only true truth known to truthtellers, and it was using that diarrhea that I was able to finally type out the phrase "tl;dr" before being forced to read any more further rumination on the topic that the person typing the comment had sought to address, before my first hand (and hum) had emerged and my second hum (and hand) had emerged and another hand and hum had emerged (the third of both, remember) and then the fourth repetition in that series of patterns, before my diarrhea had arisen like the soul of my father had arisen to heaven, and of course by "this person" in this comment I am naturally referring to you, and in particular I am referring to that part of your comment which I did not read, which is to say all of it, because it was too long.
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:34 AM on January 4, 2012 [6 favorites]


*slow clap*
posted by Rock Steady at 10:42 AM on January 4, 2012


Quick fap.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:52 AM on January 4, 2012


I pity the stool.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:54 AM on January 4, 2012


*shakes head dolefully*
posted by infini at 11:06 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Our team needed a name, and my boss Rob and I together decided on Technical Liaisons and Developer Relations, or, the TL;DR group.

When I wrote my book last year about how to teach people how to use computers, I ended each chapter with a little box titled "tl;dr" which is basically the two sentence summary about what the chapter or section is about. My editor didn't know what it was and the book designers moved the boxed around randomly in the chapter before I made them knock it off and put it as the last thing which was where it belonged. I believe there is an index entry for tl;dr in my book.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:09 AM on January 4, 2012 [11 favorites]


I pity the stool.

I've seen one of those vans around town. But pink. PINK!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:10 AM on January 4, 2012


It's from the web, not necessarily here. Cite.

Really? The f*#!king corporate content firewall is now making the urban dictionary off limits? At what point will they realize that pissing off a bunch of network engineers is just going to ensure security breaches as we all set up private VPNs so we can actually get to the internet?

On the plus side the firewall does categorize Questionable Content under "questionable", which is at least amusing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:13 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I wish Metafilter things would catch on outside of the site. The other day I was in a rather large meeting at work where a couple folks were over-analyzing certain details and keeping us from moving on.

So I made a reference to bean plating.

Let's just say that certainly got folks to change the subject. Having to explain "a plate of beans" to a couple directors is uncomfortable to say the least. ;)
posted by m@f at 11:13 AM on January 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


Really? The f*#!king corporate content firewall is now making the urban dictionary off limits?

Have you read the urban dictionary?
posted by smackfu at 11:17 AM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


ke;m
Letters Too Close Together, Please Adjust Kerning
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:20 AM on January 4, 2012 [9 favorites]


A good rule of thumb is this: If you're wondering whether a catchphrase that you see anywhere else on the internet got its start on Metafilter, the answer is "no".
posted by 23skidoo at 11:21 AM on January 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


aa;kl
attempting acronym; kinda lame
posted by owtytrof at 11:34 AM on January 4, 2012


Have you read the urban dictionary?

A common vocabulary between co-workers is a vital part of business communications.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:38 AM on January 4, 2012


(there's no point to calling someone a santorum slurping felch monkey if they can't find out what it means.)
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:47 AM on January 4, 2012


This is the earliest tl;dr I know of here but there are probably earlier, I just don't know how to find them.
posted by iconomy at 11:48 AM on January 4, 2012


there's no point to calling someone a santorum slurping felch monkey if they can't find out what it means

which segues nicely into this: Santorum surges from behind in Iowa
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:54 AM on January 4, 2012


Jon Stewart had some fun with some sticky juicy santorum last night.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:56 AM on January 4, 2012


A good rule of thumb is this: If you're wondering whether a catchphrase that you see anywhere else on the internet got its start on Metafilter, the answer is "no". --- An exception to the rule. Oh, and ... um... this.
posted by crunchland at 12:05 PM on January 4, 2012


It was the t-shirt that made me wonder about this since most of the other stuff was so very MeFi


the book designers moved the boxed around randomly in the chapter before I made them knock it off

I like the visual imagery here - I picture you bopping designers on the head while they shuffle their hands around rapidly like the conmen with the three shells and a coin trick
posted by infini at 12:10 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


I live to provide santorum related segues.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:18 PM on January 4, 2012


Santorum does make the segue smoother.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:23 PM on January 4, 2012


An exception to the rule. Oh, and ... um... this.

And this specific phrasing: "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:23 PM on January 4, 2012


Since I already have a MeTa open, lets change the subject to Etiquette.

I'd like citations for English language standards in a non professional internet community's not the front page post sections.

I'd like unspoken rules and norms regarding correcting grammar and the appropriate channels - in a thread? by email? opening a MeTa?

Also, a pony - why not request a voting system like Survivor - all those who're too lazy in a website they come to relax in get voted off the boards for punctuation oversights. Alternately, get behind Mrs Taylor for subtracting marks for carelessness.

Jeez, you party poopers take teh fun out of fun. oopsie a typo
posted by infini at 12:39 PM on January 4, 2012


no u
posted by Burhanistan at 12:41 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


And if you must send me mail, kindly keep your religion out of it. Thank you.
posted by infini at 12:42 PM on January 4, 2012


no u

You want to provoke a juvenile flaming walkout in concerted effort? Won't happen. 'nite
posted by infini at 12:43 PM on January 4, 2012


infini: Jeez, you party poopers take teh fun out of fun. oopsie a typo

Look, the other day you said it was due to laziness. It's not laziness; it's a misguided attempt at non-comformity. Sort of like emo hair or goth gear, except infinitely more annoying. Because embracing the anarchy of illiteracy is just another type of conformity - the base median of the text generation. Those that employ proper grammar and punctuation are part of an increasingly dwindling and elite group. And that is just sad.
posted by gman at 12:44 PM on January 4, 2012


What the hell are you talking about? That was a joke. Besides, this isn't a good place to come to "relax".
posted by Burhanistan at 12:44 PM on January 4, 2012


I've seen it written as "teal deer" in corners of the web where folks felt somehow sensitive to "tl; dr"
posted by ersatzkat at 12:50 PM on January 4, 2012


Also, a pony - why not request a voting system like Survivor - all those who're too lazy in a website they come to relax in get voted off the boards for punctuation oversights.

Actually, Survivor is a social game and ability (or lack there of) may not have anything to do with why someone was voted off.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:57 PM on January 4, 2012


Criticizing someone's punctuation or spelling on an internet message board means you've lost the argument and you're grasping at straws.
posted by crunchland at 1:03 PM on January 4, 2012


No, but it's really fucking annoying. It implicitly allows that either what you just wrote wasn't worth reading, or that your reader is a short-attention span idiot. Summaries themselves are good; anything long enough should probably have some sort of a summarizing bit at the end. So this little affectation (and it is an affectation) is unnecessary and toxic all around.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:09 PM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


It implicitly allows that either what you just wrote wasn't worth reading, or that your reader is a short-attention span idiot.

Or perhaps that you know that you are addressing two different audiences.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:12 PM on January 4, 2012


crunchland: Criticizing someone's punctuation or spelling on an internet message board means you've lost the argument and you're grasping at straws.

Yeah, okay – because proper spelling and grammar are straws to grasp at, not the foundations of the written history of sentient and intelligent lifeforms.
posted by gman at 1:20 PM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


As if we're writing for the fucking ages here.

Assuming you can decipher the intent, it's the written equivalent to telling someone their tie is crooked. It's belittling for the sake of belittling.
posted by crunchland at 1:26 PM on January 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


...because proper spelling and grammar are straws to grasp at, not the foundations of the written history of sentient and intelligent lifeforms.

And that's why the spelling and grammar of the English language has and will always remain as static and perfect as the day it emerged, fully-formed, from the head of Zeus himself.
posted by griphus at 1:30 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


And that's why the spelling and grammar of the English language has and will always remain as static and perfect as the day it emerged, fully-formed, from the head of Zeus himself.

While I'm all about being casual when writing on MeFi, throwing in capitals and periods isn't a call for radical change. It's basic sentence structure.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:37 PM on January 4, 2012


crunchland: Assuming you can decipher the intent, it's the written equivalent to telling someone their tie is crooked. It's belittling for the sake of belittling.

You support Metafilter devolving into a place where intelligent conversation is replaced by incoherent text short-hand? Don’t mistake having standards for belittling. Hence why I appreciate being told when my tie is crooked.
posted by gman at 1:38 PM on January 4, 2012


No, but it's also ignoring the idea that emotions and tone can be conveyed in text by eschewing proper grammar and spelling. I think the website is richer for people who know the rules and know when to break them for a reason.
posted by griphus at 1:40 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


Generally speaking, if you are not using proper spelling and grammar because you are lazy and/or you just don't care enough to correct things, it shows a lack of effort/caring. If you're actually bad at spelling/grammar, that's an entirely other thing. Speaking as a mod, I like it when people are clear in their communication which means that if you don't want the baggage that comes along with using casual spelling/punctuation/grammar, you might want to avoid it. THAT said, I sort of want the usual suspects to knock of the usual name-calling and nitpicking with each other and either get a room or go elsewhere.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:42 PM on January 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


griphus: I think the website is richer for people who know the rules and know when to break them for a reason.

How about you take a look at this and tell me if the rules are being broken for any other reason than attempting non-conformity? Scrolling past the comments she made in this thread, do you see a pattern?
posted by gman at 1:44 PM on January 4, 2012


You can get periods wholesale over at Frankie's, up on 58th (next to that Korean joint). He's well stocked with other punctuation elements also, so it's like a a one stop shop.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:51 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]


That place is bullshit, Brandon. They once tried to sell me a broken ellipsis claiming it was a diaeresis.
posted by griphus at 1:55 PM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]


?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:03 PM on January 4, 2012


Dude, that's just a lowercase 'c' with a little paint on it glued to a hyphen. You got ripped off.
posted by griphus at 2:10 PM on January 4, 2012 [3 favorites]


lf;cc

le freak; c'est chic
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:29 PM on January 4, 2012 [5 favorites]


It's alright, I just need it this one time, for a party. I can return it for refund.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:01 PM on January 4, 2012


: I have the shirt, but it's a pain in the ass to explain to outsiders.

I just say that it would take so long to explain it wouldn't be worth it. And then I laugh. And change the subject.

But tis a thing of beauty when a random stranger on the street recognizes it.
posted by zennie at 3:08 PM on January 4, 2012


I know a woman who eloquently in proper English on her regular keyboard but turns into e.e. cummings with a sticky repeat key on her iPad. I asked her and she said that she resented the keyboard on the iPad so she refused to type well on it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:10 PM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


"who eloquently" ---> "who types"
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:11 PM on January 4, 2012


The more interesting question is when "tl;dr" shifted from merely being an obnoxious response ("I didn't bother reading what you wrote") to also being used as a mildly self-deprecating "I know I wrote a whole bunch there; here's a summary").

My gut feeling is that the latter comprises nearly all its usage on Metafilter?

(Note: On the Urban Dictionary page jessamyn linked to, only the brief definition #12 from 2010 mentions this valence of the phrase.)
posted by nobody at 3:14 PM on January 4, 2012


"You can get periods wholesale over at Frankie's, up on 58th (next to that Korean joint)."

Some people get periods delivered to them personally, about once a month.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:34 PM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]


Some people get periods delivered to them personally, about once a month.

No, Frankie doesn't do deliveries anymore.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:43 PM on January 4, 2012


One of the things that I enjoy about MetaFilter is that "tl;dr" doesn't apply here. For many reasons, long posts here* are among the most joyous aspects of the discussions. Rare is the busy thread in which I don't use the mouse wheel to scroll past the one-liners to find the person with multiple paragraphs of worthwhile comment and knowledge to offer.

* excluding Human Relationships AskMe questions, of course, which are invariably never read in full by anyone ever.
posted by cincinnatus c at 3:46 PM on January 4, 2012


FRANKIE
S A Y S
PICK-UP
O N L Y

posted by griphus at 3:46 PM on January 4, 2012


Weirdly, an hour ago I was writing up a document for work that contained a lot of discussion, and was tempted to write 'tl:dr version: xxxxxx'. Then I remembered the time I referred to goatse and had to explain what THAT was, and felt a bit sad about how much of my life has been spent discussing thigns on internets.
posted by mippy at 6:04 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also: my pet internet bugbear is people writing all in lower case. I find it actually difficult to read as I find I'm mentally correcting it as I parse the text and it distracts me enormously. I dislike picking on people's spelling online to score points - my mum is a bad speller, plus some of the cleverest people I know cannot spell for toffee - but this just reads as laziness to me.
posted by mippy at 6:07 AM on January 5, 2012


I always assumed it was laziness until I started mefiing on various iProducts, where capitalization is fucking tedious.
posted by elizardbits at 6:17 AM on January 5, 2012


Some people get periods delivered to them personally, about once a month.

UNSUBSCRIBE
posted by elizardbits at 6:18 AM on January 5, 2012 [12 favorites]


mippy -- perhaps you'd like to use the old-school engineering version of TL;DR, "Attention Conservation Notice".
posted by brainwane at 6:35 AM on January 5, 2012


Metafilter: discussing thigns on internets
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:26 AM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


my pet internet bugbear is people writing all in lower case

yah me two
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:27 AM on January 5, 2012


attempting non-conformity?

You are judging me for not conforming to the standards of a North American male?

I don't see the problems that you're projecting on to that list of comments. I don't go chasing you down on each thread and snarking. I ignore you until you come and hit on my head and say look at me, I'm snarking, bitching and putting you down. There was glee in your comment that started the mess in this thread and it goes back to shit that happened in March of 2010. I've emailed cortex on why that was happening (serious cyber stalking spilling over into all my internets until I figured it all out) but you remember it in Jan 2012 like it was yesterday.

What's up gman?

If I stay away and not rise to baiting, let me type in peace. If you choose not to, understand that you will continue to be ignored.
posted by infini at 7:47 AM on January 5, 2012


As for the punctuation and quality of my English, it isn't what it used to be and I'm aware of this. Since I left the US (where English is the native language) my exposure to spoken quality English has been shrinking and even my own speaking has suffered from working across languages with few native speakers to keep it up to par. I also find myself more often needing to use simplified global English or broken English and that doesn't help my own language skills either.

So over time, the innate tendency towards carelessness (rather than laziness, because when I write articles my fingers do the spacing, caps and punctuation not my conscious brain) has been exacerbated by my spoken language skills degrading (I always used to do grammatical corrections by saying something out loud or in my head to 'feel' what was correct, now I realize that long held method from the days of studying English for the O Levels with English teachers who'd studied under Ted Hughes is not working anymore because my current frames of reference have degraded.) I have also lost vocabulary, lots of it. wanna see my GMAT scores? My TOEFLs are perfect ;p

I can make an effort here to practice, I didn't think of that.

C'est la vie.
posted by infini at 8:08 AM on January 5, 2012


tl;dr
posted by infini at 8:10 AM on January 5, 2012


I'm wearing my tl;dr shirt today; it's ship day at my publication (and thus ironic).
posted by limeonaire at 9:37 AM on January 5, 2012


my pet internet bugbear is .... ---Yeah. We all have pet peeves. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean we're allowed to call people on it. Or at least, that's what my wife keeps telling me.
posted by crunchland at 10:15 AM on January 5, 2012


The important question is, did you use a scroll of charm monster to acquire this pet, or did your cat/dog/pony get polymorphed somehow?
posted by arto at 10:45 AM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


i thought this was started by or at least popularized by jameth on livejournal
posted by srrh at 11:16 AM on January 5, 2012


infini: I don't know you. But, I like you.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:00 PM on January 5, 2012 [4 favorites]


There's a visual element involved in this as well

*this looks better to me when using asterisks for communicating emphasis*

*Than this does.*

online, not in an formal article. That's work, if we don't come to MetaFilter to relax but to work, why come?
posted by infini at 1:20 PM on January 5, 2012


That's work, if we don't come to MetaFilter to relax but to work, why come?

The point being made is that it's more work for other people when you're intentionally ignoring basic grammar and/or sentence rules.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:33 PM on January 5, 2012


online, not in an formal article. That's work, if we don't come to MetaFilter to relax but to work, why come?

There's lots of reasons to come, but the sad fact is that you are partially judged by how you express yourself. You could come and constantly express yourself as, like, a Valley Girl, like, and nobody, like, would have like, a right to tell you to, like, stop. You may find yourself being treated differently though, which you might find less relaxing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:02 PM on January 5, 2012


In other words, grammar nazis will use any excuse to treat you like a sub-human.
posted by crunchland at 3:42 PM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


That's news?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:49 PM on January 5, 2012


No, it's the opposite of news. It's very old. And tiresome.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:56 PM on January 5, 2012


I feel like I missed something -- what set off the inifini grammargate in this thread?

No it wasn't too long and I did read...
posted by sweetkid at 4:26 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]




I feel like I missed something -- what set off the inifini grammargate in this thread?


"Also, a pony - why not request a voting system like Survivor - all those who're too lazy in a website they come to relax in get voted off the boards for punctuation oversights. "


I think that was the start of it there was a bit of back and forth until the sage, wise mods came in and cooled tensions by agreeing grammar is grate and saying anyone 'name calling' (ie arguing against a pretty intolerant proposal - voted off/banned from mefi for misspelling ? EH ? ) should 'go elsewhere'.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:10 PM on January 5, 2012


infini: You are judging me for not conforming to the standards of a North American male?

While I'm fairly well versed in the discrepancies between Canadian and American English, I wasn't aware that men and women write differently or have different English standards.

I don't see the problems that you're projecting on to that list of comments.

I'm quite sure you don't, but your MeTa comments read like a Twitter feed. Where's the insight? Where's the conversational value? And it's not for lack of ability, if your Metafilter comments are anything to go by.

There was glee in your comment that started the mess in this thread and it goes back to shit that happened in March of 2010.

First of all, let me say that I have no fuckin' idea what you're talking about that happened in March of 2010. Secondly, I don't have a clue which comment you're speaking about when you say, "There was glee in your comment that started the mess in this thread". You asked that the subject of this MeTa be changed to etiquette, and I was happy to oblige.

If I stay away and not rise to baiting, let me type in peace. If you choose not to, understand that you will continue to be ignored.

Huh? I generally don't ignore people with a public rant.

As for the punctuation and quality of my English, it isn't what it used to be and I'm aware of this.

See, again, I don't get this. It's not about grammatical errors or forgotten syntax; it's about an obvious and purposeful disregard for standards and conventions. I repeat, your Metafilter comments are a stark contrast to what you produce on MeTa. Mistakes happen. Hell, look at my first comment after you requested this thread be about etiquette. "Non-comformity"? I mean, what the fuck is that?

I also find myself more often needing to use simplified global English or broken English and that doesn't help my own language skills either.

As you may or may not be aware, I spent six years travelling the globe in places where very little English was spoken. I actually joined this site upon my return. When I look back at my published writing during that time, it's a bit cringe-worthy. You know what taught me to be a better writer? This website right here, and the people who hold contributors to a higher standard. It's the single most gratifying thing about being a member here.

So over time, the innate tendency towards carelessness (rather than laziness...

I don't have much to say to that as you yourself attributed it to laziness.

infini: *this looks better to me when using asterisks for communicating emphasis*

Sure it does, and I believe others here have mentioned how a more casual style is appropriate for emphasis. But most of the time in MeTa, you're emphasizing nothing but that laziness that you referred to earlier.

I choose not to read the comments on sites like YouTube for a reason - they offer no value, and that's the last thing I want this place turning into. I want this to remain a place where we as members thrive - on public debate, gauntlet-throwing, and heated discussion.
posted by gman at 5:14 PM on January 5, 2012


sgt. serenity: I don't think that infini was seriously suggesting voting people off MeFi for spelling. I think it was sarcasm because she felt people were picking on her typing, grammar, or writing style. What I can't tell is what made her feel that way, because either the precipitating remark(s) was(were) deleted or it didn't happen in this thread, which makes me wonder why this is the subject of continuing discussion in MeTa.

(Although while we're talking about capital letters - I am never sure what to do when I'm starting a sentence by addressing someone whose username starts with a lowercase letter. And what if it's a two-word all-lower-case name, like "sgt. serenity"?)
posted by gingerest at 7:33 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


We didn't delete anything, fyi.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:43 PM on January 5, 2012


People, the grammar is a red herring. The tweeting is the real evil.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:46 PM on January 5, 2012


You start a sentence with a capitial letter, period. There's no reason to break the rule.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:01 PM on January 5, 2012


no u
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:24 PM on January 5, 2012


Totally late; dull rejoinder.
posted by eddydamascene at 8:24 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


You start a sentence with a capitial letter, period. There's no reason to break the rule.

You might as well say that people's names start with capitals, period. If you could get that to happen this other issue wouldn't exist.

Since the other issue does exist I'd say the whole question is up in the air for now. I'm a fan of always capitalize sentences myself, but I won't mind too much if it comes down the other way.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:59 PM on January 5, 2012


sgt. serenity: I don't think that infini was seriously suggesting voting people off MeFi for spelling. I think it was sarcasm because she felt people were picking on her typing, grammar, or writing style. What I can't tell is what made her feel that way, because either the precipitating remark(s) was(were) deleted or it didn't happen in this thread, which makes me wonder why this is the subject of continuing discussion in MeTa.

I agree, it didn't seem to happen in this thread and I know jessamyn said nothing was deleted. That's what's weird. I guess infini got some email that set all this off? Confused. I like infini as a member so would like to understand what's happening here, but it's pretty mysterious.
posted by sweetkid at 9:27 PM on January 5, 2012


infini: That's work, if we don't come to MetaFilter to relax but to work, why come?

People relax in different ways, and I think quite a number of members here actually relax by working. Putting together a well-researched FPP takes work, and so do writing a well-reasoned response or a good answer in AskMe. Even MeTa, while being the most freewheeling area of the site, is still pretty goal-oriented in nature and not really a good place to hang out and chat. (MetaChat might be a good place to check out if you haven't done so already. I'd love for you to stick around, by the way, it's just that MeCha might be a useful addition to your MeFi experience.)
posted by rjs at 12:04 AM on January 6, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah, okay – because proper spelling and grammar are straws to grasp at, not the foundations of the written history of sentient and intelligent lifeforms.

Now you're getting it.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 12:05 AM on January 6, 2012


I did receive a email explicitly explaining where I might find the full stop key on the keyboard, right while this thread was active two days ago. Voting people off was hamburger when you have two in a thread and one in email simultaneously. Like if you feel you should be policing people's English quality so closely then vote them off your precious boards if you can't accept that we're a diverse planet with a variety of communication styles.

If there is no difference between MetaTalk and MetaFilter then that should be explicitly discussed. From what I gather, its the discrepancy that's bothering people deeply and being perceived as a deliberate act of anti-authoritarianism.

/appreciate the request for clarifications, but have now taken this thread off recent activity, so forgive me if I carry on
posted by infini at 12:14 AM on January 6, 2012


inifini, in case you didn't realize "no u" is an old joke. If you consider that an attack, then yeah, take your business to Metachat.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:19 AM on January 6, 2012


tl;d
posted by fleacircus at 12:47 AM on January 6, 2012


Also, my 'no u' was directed at the statement immediately preceding it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:21 AM on January 6, 2012


tl;ra
posted by univac at 1:53 AM on January 9, 2012


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