Can we get notifications for deletions? July 11, 2012 3:15 PM Subscribe
I would like to get memail notification of deleted comments which include the original text.
I did search and found this. As best I can determine, there isn't currently an auto notify option (please correct me if I am wrong). I feel like that's a problem.
The site is less legible to me than most boards I have been on. That isn't a criticism, just an observation. It takes some effort to determine if a post I made is actually gone. On a few occasions, I have wondered or initially assumed that it was a technical glitch, possibly at my end. I wrote a post today that I am not finding. I can't imagine why anyone would have deleted it and it is possible I simply wrote it but somehow failed to actually post it.
I feel like not notifying me denies me information that will help me effectively participate. (For example, if I assume it was a technical glitch and try to repost, moderators tend to view that as bad behavior if they actually deleted it. Plus I don't have copies of what I wrote so as to look for patterns of what types of things I may be prone to which routinely get deleted.) I am not asking for an explanation. Just a memail with the original text in it if you opt in to notifications.
I did search and found this. As best I can determine, there isn't currently an auto notify option (please correct me if I am wrong). I feel like that's a problem.
The site is less legible to me than most boards I have been on. That isn't a criticism, just an observation. It takes some effort to determine if a post I made is actually gone. On a few occasions, I have wondered or initially assumed that it was a technical glitch, possibly at my end. I wrote a post today that I am not finding. I can't imagine why anyone would have deleted it and it is possible I simply wrote it but somehow failed to actually post it.
I feel like not notifying me denies me information that will help me effectively participate. (For example, if I assume it was a technical glitch and try to repost, moderators tend to view that as bad behavior if they actually deleted it. Plus I don't have copies of what I wrote so as to look for patterns of what types of things I may be prone to which routinely get deleted.) I am not asking for an explanation. Just a memail with the original text in it if you opt in to notifications.
Thank you. I did not see that, though I did search before asking. I will read it. I would like a copy of any deleted comments of mine from this past week. I suspect there are at least two.
Thank you.
posted by Michele in California at 3:34 PM on July 11, 2012
Thank you.
posted by Michele in California at 3:34 PM on July 11, 2012
Yay? My pony is not on the denied list (a number that were aren't, tho).
What about a link to list comments you made in askme that end up best answers?
posted by tilde at 3:51 PM on July 11, 2012
What about a link to list comments you made in askme that end up best answers?
posted by tilde at 3:51 PM on July 11, 2012
Not really in my wheelhouse and maybe won't be seen by people who think this MeTa thread is about something else? If you look on my profile page I have a link to an alternate view of your AskMe responses that makes it easier to see your best answers which you might find helpful.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:03 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:03 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I know if you add yourself as a contact your best answers show up on the sidebar on the main page. I can't remember how to add yourself though, someone posted a link to do it in a previous meta.
posted by that's how you get ants at 4:11 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by that's how you get ants at 4:11 PM on July 11, 2012
tilde: "What about a link to list comments you made in askme that end up best answers?"
More directly, best answer information is all indexed in the infodump and is accessible by the infodumpster
posted by Blasdelb at 4:12 PM on July 11, 2012
More directly, best answer information is all indexed in the infodump and is accessible by the infodumpster
posted by Blasdelb at 4:12 PM on July 11, 2012
I can't remember how to add yourself though
http://www.metafilter.com/contribute/xfnlinkbuilder.mefi?to_user=XXXXXX
You can copy that URL into the address bar and replace the Xes with your usernumber (which you can get by clicking on your username and looking at the URL.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:15 PM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
http://www.metafilter.com/contribute/xfnlinkbuilder.mefi?to_user=XXXXXX
You can copy that URL into the address bar and replace the Xes with your usernumber (which you can get by clicking on your username and looking at the URL.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:15 PM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
I too would like to get memail when Michele in California has comments removed.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:06 PM on July 11, 2012 [18 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 5:06 PM on July 11, 2012 [18 favorites]
Michele, this page shows all your comments in reverse-chronological order. That's one way you might check to see which, if any, of your comments have been deleted.
posted by box at 5:25 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by box at 5:25 PM on July 11, 2012
Michele in California, if it helps, I have personally flagged comments of yours in the past. (None today, so not your specific comment in question.) I have flagged comments that have contained what is, in my opinion, "woo" medical advice. Nothing personal against you. Any time I see an answer in ask that I feel contains medically unsound, potentially dangerous, or misleading information, I will flag it.
posted by phunniemee at 5:39 PM on July 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:39 PM on July 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
Box, I am aware of that page and I do check it. Thank you.
Jessamyn has patiently answered some of my questions privately. I have been a moderator in the past, even on a largish forum (a few thousand members). I fully understand why they view such a feature as a time suck they can't afford.
posted by Michele in California at 5:44 PM on July 11, 2012
Jessamyn has patiently answered some of my questions privately. I have been a moderator in the past, even on a largish forum (a few thousand members). I fully understand why they view such a feature as a time suck they can't afford.
posted by Michele in California at 5:44 PM on July 11, 2012
Phunniemee, I really don't think my "medical" remarks have a history of being deleted. If they have, I have honestly missed it. I get in much more trouble for social and sexual observations. Also, the copy of deleted comments I was sent did not include the "missing" comment from today. I seem to have written a post which I somehow failed to submit. Other members said much the same thing as what my missing post said. So I saw no reason to try to recreate it.
Thank you for the feedback.
posted by Michele in California at 5:55 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thank you for the feedback.
posted by Michele in California at 5:55 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's interesting that so many people have asked for this feature. Personally, I would emphatically not want to be notified when my comments were deleted. I become aware of having made an ass of myself often enough as it is.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 6:38 PM on July 11, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Perodicticus potto at 6:38 PM on July 11, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm very proud to report that I had one of the very rare deleted comments on MetaTalk just in the past week. I'm flattered by this honor, and will strive to fulfill all the duties of this office.
posted by hippybear at 7:10 PM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:10 PM on July 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
The closest badpony that I saw on the wiki was about deleted posts. Obviously it's got a lot of the same reasons why it's not going to happen, but deleted posts are a lot more visible than deleted comments, and in fact the wiki links to a discussion that's primarily about how to find and read deleted posts. Moderator workload wasn't mentioned.
Maybe a link to jessamyn's comment in this thread ought to be added?
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 7:15 PM on July 11, 2012
Maybe a link to jessamyn's comment in this thread ought to be added?
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 7:15 PM on July 11, 2012
I added it in for now. Someone who is more motivated could find one of the longer and better explanations for why we don't do this and sub it in instead.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:19 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:19 PM on July 11, 2012
Most people never have a comment deleted
Whaaaaaaaaa? That is truly shocking to me. Or are the statistics juked by all the people that have been on the site for many years and have only made 100 comments, so they buffer out all the opinionated everyone else?
posted by Chekhovian at 7:20 PM on July 11, 2012
Whaaaaaaaaa? That is truly shocking to me. Or are the statistics juked by all the people that have been on the site for many years and have only made 100 comments, so they buffer out all the opinionated everyone else?
posted by Chekhovian at 7:20 PM on July 11, 2012
i don't think the reason jessamyn gave is a good reason. an automated memail could also contain text explaining that mods wouldn't engage in back and forth conversation about it.
if comments could be seen after they were deleted, like FPP, there would be no need for this feature. but because comments are permanently deleted, a person can't figure out what exactly they said that was against the guidelines or flagged. a person who has a tenancy to write bad comments can't learn from their mistakes.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:18 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
if comments could be seen after they were deleted, like FPP, there would be no need for this feature. but because comments are permanently deleted, a person can't figure out what exactly they said that was against the guidelines or flagged. a person who has a tenancy to write bad comments can't learn from their mistakes.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:18 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Most people never have a comment deleted
Whaaaaaaaaa? That is truly shocking to me. Or are the statistics juked by all the people that have been on the site for many years and have only made 100 comments, so they buffer out all the opinionated everyone else?
I don't believe I've ever had a comment deleted.
I was also an excellent hall monitor.
posted by The Gooch at 8:21 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Whaaaaaaaaa? That is truly shocking to me. Or are the statistics juked by all the people that have been on the site for many years and have only made 100 comments, so they buffer out all the opinionated everyone else?
I don't believe I've ever had a comment deleted.
I was also an excellent hall monitor.
posted by The Gooch at 8:21 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Not too long ago I accidentally stepped on the foot of an old woman as I was running out the door of a bookstore; before I could apologize she reached out and ran the nail of her index finger down by forearm, breaking the skin in several places. For the three weeks it took to fully heal, whenever I logged into metafilter I was irreversibly directed to a version of the site made up of only deleted comments. I made some good friends there but I'm quite happy to be back.
You guys sure love to talk about circumcision.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:41 PM on July 11, 2012 [13 favorites]
You guys sure love to talk about circumcision.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 8:41 PM on July 11, 2012 [13 favorites]
As much as I personally wish I could get this, unfortunately, the reality is that putting in a disclaimer that the mods won't engage in back and forth is not likely to work. For one thing, it means they don't have latitude for answering honest inquiries from people trying to do better. For another, the types of folks who would piss and moan the most are exactly the type of folks who would disregard such instructions. For some social situations, just not going there to start with is the only really viable option when you consider what it costs to straighten out otherwise.
I can't think of a technical solution that would work. The best I can do: If there were some means to auto email me a copy of all my comments when they first post, then, if I figured out one was deleted, I would have a copy and could do a post mortem. But that seems hugely burdensome.
posted by Michele in California at 8:45 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can't think of a technical solution that would work. The best I can do: If there were some means to auto email me a copy of all my comments when they first post, then, if I figured out one was deleted, I would have a copy and could do a post mortem. But that seems hugely burdensome.
posted by Michele in California at 8:45 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would like shot in the head for a few of the offensive comments I've made. Fortunately, the mods removed those comments so this action is not necessary. You can still do this recreationally though, but please leave a note.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:15 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by cjorgensen at 9:15 PM on July 11, 2012
I have been known to inspire lynch mobs. So far, I have not seen that here. As a guess, that means the mods have done me a favor a time or two.
I am not bitching about them being deleted. I am just trying to figure out how to rely more on self censorship instead of taking up their time and energy. I can't do that without a copy of my remarks.
Maybe someone can take up a collection and buy me a photographic memory?
posted by Michele in California at 9:22 PM on July 11, 2012
I am not bitching about them being deleted. I am just trying to figure out how to rely more on self censorship instead of taking up their time and energy. I can't do that without a copy of my remarks.
Maybe someone can take up a collection and buy me a photographic memory?
posted by Michele in California at 9:22 PM on July 11, 2012
trying to figure out how to rely more on self censorship instead of taking up their time and energy
They do get paid for doing that you know. And while I'm sure the job has its downsides, they're not exactly shoveling gravel under the hot sun.
buy me a photographic memory
This is the main irritating point for me. I could very easily see myself posting some innanity from my stupid unreliable android phone, getting caught up in some work or something for a couple hours, then coming back checking the "your recent activity" gizmo, not seeing that thread listed because of the comment deletion, then posting the same comment again, under the not implausible assumption that my stupid unreliable android phone was stupid and unreliable again.
So mainly I'm not too concerned about the comment being preserved in anyway, but it would be nice if threads in which you'd commented, even if those comments were deleted, would be kept in your recent activity whats-its.
posted by Chekhovian at 9:37 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
They do get paid for doing that you know. And while I'm sure the job has its downsides, they're not exactly shoveling gravel under the hot sun.
buy me a photographic memory
This is the main irritating point for me. I could very easily see myself posting some innanity from my stupid unreliable android phone, getting caught up in some work or something for a couple hours, then coming back checking the "your recent activity" gizmo, not seeing that thread listed because of the comment deletion, then posting the same comment again, under the not implausible assumption that my stupid unreliable android phone was stupid and unreliable again.
So mainly I'm not too concerned about the comment being preserved in anyway, but it would be nice if threads in which you'd commented, even if those comments were deleted, would be kept in your recent activity whats-its.
posted by Chekhovian at 9:37 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am told if you ask you can get deleted comments sent to you, but I think the idea is they want the onus to be on the poster to ask. Otherwise they assume you trust them to do what is correct to make metafilter a better place.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:37 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by cjorgensen at 9:37 PM on July 11, 2012
Maybe someone can take up a collection and buy me a photographic memory?
...we actually already did this. I TOLD YOU ALL WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE BRAND NAME ONE.
posted by davidjmcgee at 9:46 PM on July 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
...we actually already did this. I TOLD YOU ALL WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE BRAND NAME ONE.
posted by davidjmcgee at 9:46 PM on July 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
I've had 2 comments deleted in my short Mefite career, one in which I used to the contact form because I drunkenly posted my comment in the wrong thread, and the other was a kindhearted removal of a spoiler in a Game of Thrones thread. I really think the staff goes above and beyond when it comes to moderation, and I don't think that there is another site or forum out there with the ethical approach that the mod staff takes.
posted by Drumhellz at 10:18 PM on July 11, 2012
posted by Drumhellz at 10:18 PM on July 11, 2012
i don't think the reason jessamyn gave is a good reason. an automated memail could also contain text explaining that mods wouldn't engage in back and forth conversation about it.
I appreciate the idea but don't have any faith in its efficacy or believe it'd really be the correct message for us to send. Telling someone that they can't talk to us (a) won't work when someone's feeling grumpy and (b) flies in the face of our general approach of being totally willing to talk something out if someone wants to. As someone said above, the idea here is that the onus is on the user to want to ask/discuss/complain/whatever.
It's fine for them to do that if they want to, and we're here and will be highly responsive and transparent about it, but we see just about zero value in prompting those interactions directly when we already spend a fair amount of our time every dealing with the stuff that comes up naturally.
if comments could be seen after they were deleted, like FPP, there would be no need for this feature. but because comments are permanently deleted, a person can't figure out what exactly they said that was against the guidelines or flagged. a person who has a tenancy to write bad comments can't learn from their mistakes.
Folks can always contact us to ask (whether about something they know was nixed or something they're not sure they successfully posted) and we will talk about it with them, send them a copy if they want the original text, discuss the guidelines or flags or whatever came up.
A person who has a tendency to write bad/deleteable comments out of proportion with the typical user will almost certainly here from us directly in any case if we don't hear from them first; a string of problematic comments or maybe-not-getting-this-place behavior is the sort of thing we're likely to touch base with someone on because we'd rather help them figure out how to adjust a little than keep on deleting a bunch of comments or cleaning up related messes and derails and so on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:06 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I appreciate the idea but don't have any faith in its efficacy or believe it'd really be the correct message for us to send. Telling someone that they can't talk to us (a) won't work when someone's feeling grumpy and (b) flies in the face of our general approach of being totally willing to talk something out if someone wants to. As someone said above, the idea here is that the onus is on the user to want to ask/discuss/complain/whatever.
It's fine for them to do that if they want to, and we're here and will be highly responsive and transparent about it, but we see just about zero value in prompting those interactions directly when we already spend a fair amount of our time every dealing with the stuff that comes up naturally.
if comments could be seen after they were deleted, like FPP, there would be no need for this feature. but because comments are permanently deleted, a person can't figure out what exactly they said that was against the guidelines or flagged. a person who has a tenancy to write bad comments can't learn from their mistakes.
Folks can always contact us to ask (whether about something they know was nixed or something they're not sure they successfully posted) and we will talk about it with them, send them a copy if they want the original text, discuss the guidelines or flags or whatever came up.
A person who has a tendency to write bad/deleteable comments out of proportion with the typical user will almost certainly here from us directly in any case if we don't hear from them first; a string of problematic comments or maybe-not-getting-this-place behavior is the sort of thing we're likely to touch base with someone on because we'd rather help them figure out how to adjust a little than keep on deleting a bunch of comments or cleaning up related messes and derails and so on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:06 PM on July 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can't do that without a copy of my remarks.
cut and paste them into a text file before you post them, then
posted by pyramid termite at 12:39 AM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
cut and paste them into a text file before you post them, then
posted by pyramid termite at 12:39 AM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Michele in California: "I can't think of a technical solution that would work. "
I've got some ideas,
I know this has already been hashed out so many times, but there really is still something profoundly unsettling about the memory hole nature of deletions.
What if,
The deletions that weren't mission critical, like personal info stuff, were able to be indexed in the infodump? Say, two mod buttons that would put deletions into two piles, one indexed and one not? Crawling the non-mission critical deletions for things like word usage could also be really interesting.
One's own deleted contributions were able to still show up in the records accessible by ones profile page but marked as such in an oblique way that wouldn't show up on the profile page itself, such that it would only be noticed if you were looking for it?
There were a tab somewhere in the (Recent Posts / My Favorites / Popular Favorites / My Comments / Recent Comments / My MeFi) list called My Deletions where it would look like the records on your profile page but only show deleted contributions but not give a notification of any kind unless one thought to click there and notice the changed number?
There were a week or month long lag that could be applied to each of these potential changes that would cut down on obsessive refreshing and heat of the moment stuff?
posted by Blasdelb at 12:45 AM on July 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've got some ideas,
I know this has already been hashed out so many times, but there really is still something profoundly unsettling about the memory hole nature of deletions.
What if,
The deletions that weren't mission critical, like personal info stuff, were able to be indexed in the infodump? Say, two mod buttons that would put deletions into two piles, one indexed and one not? Crawling the non-mission critical deletions for things like word usage could also be really interesting.
One's own deleted contributions were able to still show up in the records accessible by ones profile page but marked as such in an oblique way that wouldn't show up on the profile page itself, such that it would only be noticed if you were looking for it?
There were a tab somewhere in the (Recent Posts / My Favorites / Popular Favorites / My Comments / Recent Comments / My MeFi) list called My Deletions where it would look like the records on your profile page but only show deleted contributions but not give a notification of any kind unless one thought to click there and notice the changed number?
There were a week or month long lag that could be applied to each of these potential changes that would cut down on obsessive refreshing and heat of the moment stuff?
posted by Blasdelb at 12:45 AM on July 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Most people never have a comment deleted
Whaaaaaaaaa? That is truly shocking to me.
I've only had three-four comments deleted that I know of, all by the same admin, who clearly has it in for me, one because it responded to a comment that the poster asked to be removed for privacy reasons, two the other day in that fighty thread about that tosher. In all cases I got an memail about it explaining why it was deleted even before I'd noticed the deletion. I'm not behaving much differently than on other sites I comment, so I think it's quite likely that for very many people a comment deletion is rare or non-existent.
It's just another example of the 80-20 rule: 20 percent of all posters cause most of the work, eighty percent just sails on through.
Personally I don't think you should focus too much on deletions, but I see discussions here more as a conversation than a permanent record. Anything that makes deleted comments more visible is quite likely to end in graah rather than constructive dialogue. Do you really want to get your nose rubbed in everything you ever did wrong?
posted by MartinWisse at 3:01 AM on July 12, 2012
Whaaaaaaaaa? That is truly shocking to me.
I've only had three-four comments deleted that I know of, all by the same admin, who clearly has it in for me, one because it responded to a comment that the poster asked to be removed for privacy reasons, two the other day in that fighty thread about that tosher. In all cases I got an memail about it explaining why it was deleted even before I'd noticed the deletion. I'm not behaving much differently than on other sites I comment, so I think it's quite likely that for very many people a comment deletion is rare or non-existent.
It's just another example of the 80-20 rule: 20 percent of all posters cause most of the work, eighty percent just sails on through.
Personally I don't think you should focus too much on deletions, but I see discussions here more as a conversation than a permanent record. Anything that makes deleted comments more visible is quite likely to end in graah rather than constructive dialogue. Do you really want to get your nose rubbed in everything you ever did wrong?
posted by MartinWisse at 3:01 AM on July 12, 2012
I've only had three-four comments deleted that I know of, all by the same admin, who clearly has it in for me
Is this a joke? If not, I hate that shit. I've never seen any evidence that specific mods target specific users, and suggesting that they do not only does them a disservice, it removes any impetus to look at one's specific behavior and why it might elicit comment deletion. If you really think you've got a problem with a specific mod, take it up with Matt. He's their boss.
posted by OmieWise at 4:58 AM on July 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
Is this a joke? If not, I hate that shit. I've never seen any evidence that specific mods target specific users, and suggesting that they do not only does them a disservice, it removes any impetus to look at one's specific behavior and why it might elicit comment deletion. If you really think you've got a problem with a specific mod, take it up with Matt. He's their boss.
posted by OmieWise at 4:58 AM on July 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
It sort of looks like Martin is your Dutch brother, Omie.
posted by SpiffyRob at 5:08 AM on July 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by SpiffyRob at 5:08 AM on July 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
...I see discussions here more as a conversation than a permanent record.
For what it's worth, I, a simple user, agree, and I think complaints about a "memory hole" are somewhat misplaced. If you want to save your comments locally, you have mechanisms available to do that. If you suggest the site begin archiving everything written even if deleted, you're really requesting a fundamental change in focus of the site, and while that's not an inherently bad thing, it's a much bigger conversation than just adding some functionality.
posted by solotoro at 5:35 AM on July 12, 2012
For what it's worth, I, a simple user, agree, and I think complaints about a "memory hole" are somewhat misplaced. If you want to save your comments locally, you have mechanisms available to do that. If you suggest the site begin archiving everything written even if deleted, you're really requesting a fundamental change in focus of the site, and while that's not an inherently bad thing, it's a much bigger conversation than just adding some functionality.
posted by solotoro at 5:35 AM on July 12, 2012
Poor Martin. Every time I see his name he is making jokes that are funny but misunderstood.
If it were me I would be disheartened, but he seems to be made of sterner stuff. Hang in there, buddy!
posted by winna at 5:35 AM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
If it were me I would be disheartened, but he seems to be made of sterner stuff. Hang in there, buddy!
posted by winna at 5:35 AM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have flagged comments that have contained what is, in my opinion, "woo" medical advice.
What I like about this use of the word "woo" is that it makes the phrase "pitching woo" meaningful again.
Over my long and distinguished career at metafilter, a half dozen or more of my comments have been removed. Not a big deal, even on the occasions when I've failed to see any difference between my comment and adjacent ones. Nothing I've ever written here deserves to be graven in stone. If I were a mod, I'd remove even more comments, or maybe, Yossarian-like, I'd declare war on adverbs one day and on adjectives the next.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:32 AM on July 12, 2012
What I like about this use of the word "woo" is that it makes the phrase "pitching woo" meaningful again.
Over my long and distinguished career at metafilter, a half dozen or more of my comments have been removed. Not a big deal, even on the occasions when I've failed to see any difference between my comment and adjacent ones. Nothing I've ever written here deserves to be graven in stone. If I were a mod, I'd remove even more comments, or maybe, Yossarian-like, I'd declare war on adverbs one day and on adjectives the next.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:32 AM on July 12, 2012
Well friending myself is kinda useful, thanks. Maybe I need to defirend everyone else.
And I do like this idea of the auto email script when the delete comment button is hit, kinda tough to find yodeling and yoga pants posts when the delete comment button is pushed over and over again ...
Maybe i just need to take another time out or to stay the hell away from metatalk when I feel the line at which it's dicky overmoderation is way the hell in the rearview mirror again ...
posted by tilde at 6:35 AM on July 12, 2012
And I do like this idea of the auto email script when the delete comment button is hit, kinda tough to find yodeling and yoga pants posts when the delete comment button is pushed over and over again ...
Maybe i just need to take another time out or to stay the hell away from metatalk when I feel the line at which it's dicky overmoderation is way the hell in the rearview mirror again ...
posted by tilde at 6:35 AM on July 12, 2012
I once answered a question about how rare bobcat sightings were in the asker's area. It involved a very clever play on words on the merits of '70s automobile construction, and it was then deleted. I will forever hate the mods.
Along those lines, I wonder how often they've had to remove answers consisting of "A Pianist" from this question so far...
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:17 AM on July 12, 2012
Along those lines, I wonder how often they've had to remove answers consisting of "A Pianist" from this question so far...
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:17 AM on July 12, 2012
I like the idea of a thread staying in your que even if they delete your remark. That way I could at least know I didn't hallucinate the whole thing.
I also have an android and technical issues. Shit happens because of that too. So that complicates things for me.
And when ya'll bought me that photographic memory, did it not occur to you I am homeless??? If you mailed it to my last known street address, that would explain a whole lot. Sheesh.
posted by Michele in California at 7:38 AM on July 12, 2012
I also have an android and technical issues. Shit happens because of that too. So that complicates things for me.
And when ya'll bought me that photographic memory, did it not occur to you I am homeless??? If you mailed it to my last known street address, that would explain a whole lot. Sheesh.
posted by Michele in California at 7:38 AM on July 12, 2012
Phunnie, I'm not a very woo-woo medicine person, but I think it would be more effective if you posted a link to why you think the advice is unsound, instead of flagging.
I've never checked to see if a comment of mine was deleted. It would be helpful to get feedback like "*link-to-comment* was deleted because it was too chatty for ask.me," or "... please reduce your grar."
posted by theora55 at 8:14 AM on July 12, 2012
I've never checked to see if a comment of mine was deleted. It would be helpful to get feedback like "*link-to-comment* was deleted because it was too chatty for ask.me," or "... please reduce your grar."
posted by theora55 at 8:14 AM on July 12, 2012
Er, I really don't want people trying to pick a fight with me publically. I know I am extremely controversial and I know why. I try really hard to keep any alternative medicine remarks as conservative as possible. If phunniemee (or anyone!) wants to memail me and tell me it looks "woo" to her and, if possible, why, I would be thrilled to get constructive feedback privately (and just let me know if you want more explanation or don't, no problem). But in addition to violating the "no debating" rule of metafilter, this well meaning suggestion puts a humongous target on my forehead, something I have neen trying to escape for years. No thank you, pretty please.
posted by Michele in California at 8:24 AM on July 12, 2012
posted by Michele in California at 8:24 AM on July 12, 2012
Phunnie, I'm not a very woo-woo medicine person, but I think it would be more effective if you posted a link to why you think the advice is unsound, instead of flagging.
Textbook derail. Whole threads veering off on one particular off-topic point are way more cumbersome for mods than a single line deletion.
The one time I was actually involved in a thread where this came up (about COBRA insurance), I responded not to the medical advice but to the fact that it was a bad answer because of the way insurance rules are written. It caused an in-thread back and forth about that issue, rather than staying on-topic to the question itself (which isn't helpful for anyone), and was subsequently deleted.
posted by phunniemee at 8:26 AM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Textbook derail. Whole threads veering off on one particular off-topic point are way more cumbersome for mods than a single line deletion.
The one time I was actually involved in a thread where this came up (about COBRA insurance), I responded not to the medical advice but to the fact that it was a bad answer because of the way insurance rules are written. It caused an in-thread back and forth about that issue, rather than staying on-topic to the question itself (which isn't helpful for anyone), and was subsequently deleted.
posted by phunniemee at 8:26 AM on July 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Er, I really don't want people trying to pick a fight with me publically. I know I am extremely controversial and I know why. [...] this well meaning suggestion puts a humongous target on my forehead, something I have neen trying to escape for years. No thank you, pretty please.
I think you're adding an awful lot of drama that isn't there. None of this is about you.
posted by OmieWise at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2012 [8 favorites]
I think you're adding an awful lot of drama that isn't there. None of this is about you.
posted by OmieWise at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2012 [8 favorites]
It has been a huge deal elsewhere. Good to know I am not noteworthy here. Seriously.
Thanks.
posted by Michele in California at 9:39 AM on July 12, 2012
Thanks.
posted by Michele in California at 9:39 AM on July 12, 2012
Thank you for noting that. I am still new here and still figuring it out. But, so far, I have participated far more on askme than on metafilter proper. So, though I was not strongly aware of the distinction, I was not confusing the two areas either.
I am gradually sorting out my financial and personal issues. Being homeless is minor compared to being lungless. Annoying as hell, but still minor in the grand scheme of things. But thanks for your well wishes. "From your mouth to god's ear" and all that. I would love to be off the street, assuming I could find a place that doesn't contribute to my health issues.
posted by Michele in California at 10:12 AM on July 12, 2012
I am gradually sorting out my financial and personal issues. Being homeless is minor compared to being lungless. Annoying as hell, but still minor in the grand scheme of things. But thanks for your well wishes. "From your mouth to god's ear" and all that. I would love to be off the street, assuming I could find a place that doesn't contribute to my health issues.
posted by Michele in California at 10:12 AM on July 12, 2012
Michele, I want to sort of gently but firmly stress here that one of the things that's been a recurring problem with your participation on the site is your tendency to inject yourself, your personal narrative, your current state of mind and being, etc. into threads where it really isn't on topic or what the thread's about at all. This Metatalk has turned into an example of that: you're commenting a lot, you're bringing up your personal stuff unprompted and involving that in what should have been a request that got answered one way or the other and left at that.
This may just be culture shock or something, if you're accustomed to different forums or just your communication style on your own blogs where this sort of running personal monologue stuff is a good fit, but that's not how Metafilter, on any of its subsites, really works. You need to do less answering in Ask Metafilter of the form of "here's a sort-of-related story about something that happened to me", and you definitely need to not do the sort of thing that's going on in this Metatalk thread.
I need to ask you to try and be a lot more self-aware about this stuff. It's great if you are enjoying being here and having Metafilter as a resource and social space, but it needs to not be something that you treat like an adjunct to your personal blog or journal or whatever.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:23 AM on July 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
This may just be culture shock or something, if you're accustomed to different forums or just your communication style on your own blogs where this sort of running personal monologue stuff is a good fit, but that's not how Metafilter, on any of its subsites, really works. You need to do less answering in Ask Metafilter of the form of "here's a sort-of-related story about something that happened to me", and you definitely need to not do the sort of thing that's going on in this Metatalk thread.
I need to ask you to try and be a lot more self-aware about this stuff. It's great if you are enjoying being here and having Metafilter as a resource and social space, but it needs to not be something that you treat like an adjunct to your personal blog or journal or whatever.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:23 AM on July 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
Thank you.
I don't think it's just me. In this discussion, other people have called me out by name and/or commented on stuff I do or that they think I am doing. I have tried to respond appropriately and correct any misperceptions. I really am not trying to make this about me. But, for whatever reason, it isn't uncommon for people to respond to me personally like that, not just on metafilter. I don't feel compelled to reply in every case but I don't think it works to wholesale ignore remarks aimed at me by name.
Maybe I can ask that people try to memail me remarks of a more personal nature? That way I can respond appropriately without derailing a discussion? It isn't my intent to derail them. I do try to make relevant, on topic remarks. Other people also tell personal anecdotes, so I honestly don't understand why that gets viewed as a problem when I do it. I have tried to examine that and tried to make sure I more clearly indicate why I think it's relevant. However, I remain baffled as to why my anecdotes are apparently somehow bad behavior but those of other people apparently are not.
posted by Michele in California at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2012
I don't think it's just me. In this discussion, other people have called me out by name and/or commented on stuff I do or that they think I am doing. I have tried to respond appropriately and correct any misperceptions. I really am not trying to make this about me. But, for whatever reason, it isn't uncommon for people to respond to me personally like that, not just on metafilter. I don't feel compelled to reply in every case but I don't think it works to wholesale ignore remarks aimed at me by name.
Maybe I can ask that people try to memail me remarks of a more personal nature? That way I can respond appropriately without derailing a discussion? It isn't my intent to derail them. I do try to make relevant, on topic remarks. Other people also tell personal anecdotes, so I honestly don't understand why that gets viewed as a problem when I do it. I have tried to examine that and tried to make sure I more clearly indicate why I think it's relevant. However, I remain baffled as to why my anecdotes are apparently somehow bad behavior but those of other people apparently are not.
posted by Michele in California at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2012
I don't think it's just me.
I think it is you. I was trying to figure out a way to gently respond to your comment that, "[It's] Good to know I am not noteworthy here," because I think it's incorrect. I think you are noteworthy for the way you participate on the site, specifically for the way that you overshare personal and dramatic information frequently. I think cortex describes the problems with that perfectly.
The way that you share is different from the way that many other people share here, mostly because it seems like you're writing first to share a dramatic personal anecdote, rather than letting the need for illustration guide when such sharing is appropriate. Part of the issue, as I've tried to think this out, is that the nature of your anecdotes make it hard to either disagree with you (regardless of the strength of your argument) or to point out that your sharing is not appropriate. Your comments in this thread are a good example of that. Who wants to be the person to say that being homeless with serious health problems is not really something germane to this thread and is probably best left out of your comments here? At best it looks callous, at worst it looks cruel. But, if you step back for a minute I think you might be able to see that it's completely beside the point that you're homeless, have health issues, and apparently have a history of contentious interactions on other websites. All of that stuff tends to make this seem like a thread about you, rather than a thread about site policy.
You asked some specific questions about comment deletions and your comments, so it makes sense that someone tried to provide you with some specific information about that (the comment about flagging your bad medical advice), but that was about whether your comments are getting deleted, not about whether your medical advice is bad or not. It did not require a response.
posted by OmieWise at 10:57 AM on July 12, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think it is you. I was trying to figure out a way to gently respond to your comment that, "[It's] Good to know I am not noteworthy here," because I think it's incorrect. I think you are noteworthy for the way you participate on the site, specifically for the way that you overshare personal and dramatic information frequently. I think cortex describes the problems with that perfectly.
The way that you share is different from the way that many other people share here, mostly because it seems like you're writing first to share a dramatic personal anecdote, rather than letting the need for illustration guide when such sharing is appropriate. Part of the issue, as I've tried to think this out, is that the nature of your anecdotes make it hard to either disagree with you (regardless of the strength of your argument) or to point out that your sharing is not appropriate. Your comments in this thread are a good example of that. Who wants to be the person to say that being homeless with serious health problems is not really something germane to this thread and is probably best left out of your comments here? At best it looks callous, at worst it looks cruel. But, if you step back for a minute I think you might be able to see that it's completely beside the point that you're homeless, have health issues, and apparently have a history of contentious interactions on other websites. All of that stuff tends to make this seem like a thread about you, rather than a thread about site policy.
You asked some specific questions about comment deletions and your comments, so it makes sense that someone tried to provide you with some specific information about that (the comment about flagging your bad medical advice), but that was about whether your comments are getting deleted, not about whether your medical advice is bad or not. It did not require a response.
posted by OmieWise at 10:57 AM on July 12, 2012 [12 favorites]
However, I remain baffled as to why my anecdotes are apparently somehow bad behavior but those of other people apparently are not.
The issue is not with ever sharing anecdotes—nothing wrong with that as situation-appropriate bit of flavor depending on the conversation—but with doing that very regularly. It feels like you are not really making this distinction in how your participate here, and that's the distinction I'm asking you to start making. Most threads are not the place to start talking about your personal history or troubles or your blog or interpersonal dramas.
I don't know how more clearly to communicate this to you than to say that this is a problem with your behavior here specifically that is out of proportion with how Metafilter normally works. It's not a huge deal if it's something you just weren't aware of, but you are being told now that it is a problem that you need to address.
If you want to talk about this more, drop us a line at the contact form; I think that'd be a better venue for it than this Metatalk thread, and I'd ask other folks in here to go ahead and abide by that as well so it doesn't just keep rolling.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:10 AM on July 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
The issue is not with ever sharing anecdotes—nothing wrong with that as situation-appropriate bit of flavor depending on the conversation—but with doing that very regularly. It feels like you are not really making this distinction in how your participate here, and that's the distinction I'm asking you to start making. Most threads are not the place to start talking about your personal history or troubles or your blog or interpersonal dramas.
I don't know how more clearly to communicate this to you than to say that this is a problem with your behavior here specifically that is out of proportion with how Metafilter normally works. It's not a huge deal if it's something you just weren't aware of, but you are being told now that it is a problem that you need to address.
If you want to talk about this more, drop us a line at the contact form; I think that'd be a better venue for it than this Metatalk thread, and I'd ask other folks in here to go ahead and abide by that as well so it doesn't just keep rolling.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:10 AM on July 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
So it is perfectly understandable that other people would respond to me personally and remark on how I behave when I ask about my comments being deleted but I am doing something inappropriate to then respond when called out by name?
I don't know what the solution is but I don't think double standards like that ever work. And I wish I felt it would work to not respond to that because this whole thing is getting framed like a group interaction gone wrong is entirly my fault and I have been accused of posting "too much" as one of the things I am doing wrong. So it seems clear that responding will make me look guilty as charged but not responding means I can't address any of those accusations, which makes it much more likely that everyone will agree that, yea, verily it is all on her and no one else contributed to creating this situation.
If I were as all powerful as your remarks imply that I am, no one would ever call me out by name and no thread would ever be derailed on acount of my presence.
Is it possible for a mod to close this thread before I get thrown out for attempting to address remarks aimed at me by name?
posted by Michele in California at 11:15 AM on July 12, 2012
I don't know what the solution is but I don't think double standards like that ever work. And I wish I felt it would work to not respond to that because this whole thing is getting framed like a group interaction gone wrong is entirly my fault and I have been accused of posting "too much" as one of the things I am doing wrong. So it seems clear that responding will make me look guilty as charged but not responding means I can't address any of those accusations, which makes it much more likely that everyone will agree that, yea, verily it is all on her and no one else contributed to creating this situation.
If I were as all powerful as your remarks imply that I am, no one would ever call me out by name and no thread would ever be derailed on acount of my presence.
Is it possible for a mod to close this thread before I get thrown out for attempting to address remarks aimed at me by name?
posted by Michele in California at 11:15 AM on July 12, 2012
Please let me note my last remark was in response to omiewise, not cortex. I don't want it misinterpretted.
posted by Michele in California at 11:17 AM on July 12, 2012
posted by Michele in California at 11:17 AM on July 12, 2012
Is it possible for a mod to close this thread before I get thrown out for attempting to address remarks aimed at me by name?
Not responding really is the sure-fire solution here, which is part of why I suggested it when we were doing the ships-passing-at-night thing with our comments there. "But people will unfairly characterize my failure to respond" is a bummer of a possible side-effect, but at that point it's those people who are maybe acting not so great rather than you doing so, and that's their problem.
I know it can be frustrating to feel like you're in a no-win situation once several people are responding to you, but it doesn't stop being a no-win if you keep digging in and the long-term thing to focus on here is to avoid getting into those situations in the first place. Again, please feel free to talk to the mod team via the contact form if you want to hash this out further.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:23 AM on July 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Not responding really is the sure-fire solution here, which is part of why I suggested it when we were doing the ships-passing-at-night thing with our comments there. "But people will unfairly characterize my failure to respond" is a bummer of a possible side-effect, but at that point it's those people who are maybe acting not so great rather than you doing so, and that's their problem.
I know it can be frustrating to feel like you're in a no-win situation once several people are responding to you, but it doesn't stop being a no-win if you keep digging in and the long-term thing to focus on here is to avoid getting into those situations in the first place. Again, please feel free to talk to the mod team via the contact form if you want to hash this out further.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:23 AM on July 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Good grief.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 10:41 PM on July 12, 2012
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 10:41 PM on July 12, 2012
You know, I just had what is either a a) BRILLIANT IDEA or b) DUMB IDEA.
What if, for deletions, the comment or post was made invisible for the rest of the userbase, but (and this is a big but (lol)) it was visible, with a high-contrast background color and a flag saying 'DELETED SUCKA' or something, to the poster who made it, and only to them (and mods).
The downside would be that more people would be more aware of their stuff being deleted and possibly pester the mods as a result, but the upside would be a) no more memory hole b) users could learn from seeing what they'd done or said that was unacceptable and modify their future behaviour accordingly, and the whole process would feel like it has more integrity.
I was shocked when I found out a while back how many comments I'd had deleted, and I think if they were still there, visible to me only, in old threads, I'd be a lot less inclined to veer over the yellow line in future.
I proclaim this to be MY GREATEST IDEA EVER THIS WEEK.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:51 AM on July 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
What if, for deletions, the comment or post was made invisible for the rest of the userbase, but (and this is a big but (lol)) it was visible, with a high-contrast background color and a flag saying 'DELETED SUCKA' or something, to the poster who made it, and only to them (and mods).
The downside would be that more people would be more aware of their stuff being deleted and possibly pester the mods as a result, but the upside would be a) no more memory hole b) users could learn from seeing what they'd done or said that was unacceptable and modify their future behaviour accordingly, and the whole process would feel like it has more integrity.
I was shocked when I found out a while back how many comments I'd had deleted, and I think if they were still there, visible to me only, in old threads, I'd be a lot less inclined to veer over the yellow line in future.
I proclaim this to be MY GREATEST IDEA EVER THIS WEEK.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:51 AM on July 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mod thoughts? My tone was jocular, but the proposal is entirely serious?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:14 PM on July 13, 2012
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:14 PM on July 13, 2012
Er, strike the second question mark.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:14 PM on July 13, 2012
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:14 PM on July 13, 2012
Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging, just got distracted. I get the idea, but I'm not hot on it for a couple reasons:
1. For the same general reason that we don't want to auto-alert people by mefimail about deletions (we'd rather the impetus for having a conversation is something higher on the level-of-caring scale than anything that would require active prompting of OH BY THE WAY THIS WAS DELETED, whether as an email alert or as a dedicated inline comment ghost).
2. Your deleted comment out of the context of whatever else was deleted in a thread, or said over email or mefimail, may look weirder than it does with all that context. So it in many cases may become a set up for misunderstandings where it looks to the user like a random killing rather than something that happened with a (still invisible to them) context.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:02 PM on July 13, 2012
1. For the same general reason that we don't want to auto-alert people by mefimail about deletions (we'd rather the impetus for having a conversation is something higher on the level-of-caring scale than anything that would require active prompting of OH BY THE WAY THIS WAS DELETED, whether as an email alert or as a dedicated inline comment ghost).
2. Your deleted comment out of the context of whatever else was deleted in a thread, or said over email or mefimail, may look weirder than it does with all that context. So it in many cases may become a set up for misunderstandings where it looks to the user like a random killing rather than something that happened with a (still invisible to them) context.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:02 PM on July 13, 2012
Hmmm. I don't understand what you mean by #2 (the whole idea is that your deleted comment has context), but I will admit that I have a Category 4 hangover. Ah well, I still think it's the Best Idea Ever.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:28 PM on July 13, 2012
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:28 PM on July 13, 2012
If you get involved in an exchange in a thread, and that exchange gets removed, you would under the proposed system see only your, deleted, part of the exchange without being able to see whatever else was removed. Context goes poof, you possibly think "but what I said was FINE, why was it DELETED", and GRAR is afoot.
As it is we see this sort of thing sometimes when leaving a note telling someone(s) to knock it off in a thread if we've had to delete a few things; I'll get mail from a user who wasn't being a problem but they're thinking I was saying they were a problem and what the hell is my problem, man, etc. It's tricky.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:50 PM on July 13, 2012
As it is we see this sort of thing sometimes when leaving a note telling someone(s) to knock it off in a thread if we've had to delete a few things; I'll get mail from a user who wasn't being a problem but they're thinking I was saying they were a problem and what the hell is my problem, man, etc. It's tricky.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:50 PM on July 13, 2012
So no love for my keep-threads-in-which-you've-commented-even-if-your-comment-was-already-deleted-in-your-"my comments"-tab?
I mean suppose it sort of duplicates the favorites post thing as a book marker, but I do think it would add some separate functionality.
posted by Chekhovian at 9:54 PM on July 13, 2012
I mean suppose it sort of duplicates the favorites post thing as a book marker, but I do think it would add some separate functionality.
posted by Chekhovian at 9:54 PM on July 13, 2012
Even all else aside on that stuff, any additional tweaks to the Recent Activity page get a natural handicap based on the existing query for that already being a huge monster. So, not so much Impossible or Never but more of a thing where if it's not a burning issue it's not gonna get prioritized.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:00 PM on July 13, 2012
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:00 PM on July 13, 2012
If you get involved in an exchange in a thread, and that exchange gets removed, you would under the proposed system see only your, deleted, part of the exchange without being able to see whatever else was removed. Context goes poof, you possibly think "but what I said was FINE, why was it DELETED", and GRAR is afoot.
Ah, gotcha. Dunno how dire a problem that would be in practice, but yeah, more visibility of deletions would mean more modbothering, probably.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:08 PM on July 13, 2012
Ah, gotcha. Dunno how dire a problem that would be in practice, but yeah, more visibility of deletions would mean more modbothering, probably.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:08 PM on July 13, 2012
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
No big deal and that doesn't mean you're supposed to have known that, but just that it's a thing that comes up every so often and we explain why we're not doing it. The short form is: we don't currently have the staffing to be able to get into a back and forth discussion with commenters about each and every deleted comment, and don't really want to. Most people never have a comment deleted and so this doesn't solve a problem for them. Some people have a lot of comments deleted, know it's going to happen, are already angry and/or aggrieved, and we don't feel like arguing with them about it every time. For the in-between people, we're available to chat about it via the contact form [or here, but many people like to do that privately] and we'd be happy to give you some constructive criticism.
If you'd like to ask about specific comments or even about your comments in general, feel free to hit us up on the contact form and we can not only give you the numbers of [and text of, if you'd like] you're deleted comments but also give you some suggestions about how to effectively participate here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:21 PM on July 11, 2012 [2 favorites]