More about Dancing on John Wayne's Head, from p.a December 30, 2012 2:41 PM Subscribe
Welcome to Pat Andrade (p.a) to MetaFilter, the producer of Dancing on John Wayne's Head, who joined to add some history to the making of the album.
He was awfully nice and levelheaded in the face of some really shitty comments in that thread.
Welcome to metafilter, pat!
posted by to sir with millipedes at 7:03 PM on December 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
Welcome to metafilter, pat!
posted by to sir with millipedes at 7:03 PM on December 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
On one hand...right on!
On the other, after reading the comments following and reading back through Dee Xtrovert's assertions...I'm kind of embarrassed that this is p.a's intro to the community.
posted by batmonkey at 7:20 PM on December 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
On the other, after reading the comments following and reading back through Dee Xtrovert's assertions...I'm kind of embarrassed that this is p.a's intro to the community.
posted by batmonkey at 7:20 PM on December 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think the comments were that shitty (well, there was a bit of questionable noise), but it is/was a decent discussion about where those albums sit in the larger world of indigenous music being worked into other musical styles, and the crossovers between reggae and native music. Some people wrote with feeling. And compared to other (music discussion) forums, the discussion was (generally) intelligent and engaged.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 PM on December 30, 2012
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 PM on December 30, 2012
Gee, maybe everyone deserves a formal welcome for joining to add so much noise. You'd think it was Bono or Kanye showing up.
Also, capital letters and punctuation are your friends.
There are legitimate issues of appropriation that are glossed over in a bunch of romanticized verbiage in his first comment and throughout that thread.
posted by spitbull at 1:53 AM on December 31, 2012
Also, capital letters and punctuation are your friends.
There are legitimate issues of appropriation that are glossed over in a bunch of romanticized verbiage in his first comment and throughout that thread.
posted by spitbull at 1:53 AM on December 31, 2012
Also, the breathlessness of that post as if this was some radical new idea (Native plus Black music who woulda thunk?) just shows pretty deep ignorance about a cultural fusion that is more than a century old now, or even if you want to limit it to reggae, 30 or so years old. Reggae has been a huge genre throughout the indigenous world (not just North America) since the 70s.
But it seems to me indigenous culture is something Metafilter still does Not Do Well.
posted by spitbull at 2:00 AM on December 31, 2012
But it seems to me indigenous culture is something Metafilter still does Not Do Well.
posted by spitbull at 2:00 AM on December 31, 2012
And the really shitty comments continue.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 2:34 AM on December 31, 2012
posted by to sir with millipedes at 2:34 AM on December 31, 2012
spitbull, your comment essentially accusing him of lying "well let's see a picture of this Canadian girlfriend, then" is in really poor form. When I read it I cringed.
But it seems to me indigenous culture is something Metafilter still does Not Do Well.
You sure aren't helping.
posted by OmieWise at 3:26 AM on December 31, 2012
But it seems to me indigenous culture is something Metafilter still does Not Do Well.
You sure aren't helping.
posted by OmieWise at 3:26 AM on December 31, 2012
Ah bullshit. I did not say "where's a picture of your Candadian girlfriend," I said please help us out by detailing your claim to an indigenous identity a bit. He said he was of Native ancestry. Among Indians, that's called "dressing in feathers" unless you have a tribal affiliation. Is he enrolled in any nation? Simple question. Did he pay or license or get permission to use those song samples? Simple question.
The fact that people like you are offended by questions like that is what I mean. You have no idea how sensitive these matters are for Native people. To me, pa's work looks like any other appropriation. Did any of those samples lead to payments to the tribes whose music is represented?
I specifically said "I'm not doubting your assertion, just asking for more details."
These are legitimate issues. Funny how you can't say anything on metafilter that might offend a left-handed green haired rhesus monkey, but you can stereotype and essentialize Native people, no problem.
But in good news, over the course of this evening I decided I've had enough of metafilter. Flame out. Bye.
posted by spitbull at 4:53 AM on December 31, 2012
The fact that people like you are offended by questions like that is what I mean. You have no idea how sensitive these matters are for Native people. To me, pa's work looks like any other appropriation. Did any of those samples lead to payments to the tribes whose music is represented?
I specifically said "I'm not doubting your assertion, just asking for more details."
These are legitimate issues. Funny how you can't say anything on metafilter that might offend a left-handed green haired rhesus monkey, but you can stereotype and essentialize Native people, no problem.
But in good news, over the course of this evening I decided I've had enough of metafilter. Flame out. Bye.
posted by spitbull at 4:53 AM on December 31, 2012
Huh, I was going to come in and refute many of the things you wrote in your comment, but I see you've closed your account. I don't think that's good news, and I hope you'll be back. I've pushed that button before, and I know how necessary it can feel.
posted by OmieWise at 6:27 AM on December 31, 2012
posted by OmieWise at 6:27 AM on December 31, 2012
Wow, what a pissy last couple of days spitbull had.
posted by SpiffyRob at 6:44 AM on December 31, 2012
posted by SpiffyRob at 6:44 AM on December 31, 2012
...your claim to an indigenous identity...
I think this is easily enough verified outside of MeFi, if you really care. As is, I dunno, maybe you misspoke? In your second comment unthread you seemed a lot more to be coming from a similar POV.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:49 AM on December 31, 2012
I think this is easily enough verified outside of MeFi, if you really care. As is, I dunno, maybe you misspoke? In your second comment unthread you seemed a lot more to be coming from a similar POV.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:49 AM on December 31, 2012
Look I just wanna see the long form version, is that so much to ask?
posted by shakespeherian at 7:05 AM on December 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 7:05 AM on December 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
But it is now. Earlier there was a message to the effect that spitbull wasn't going to work on "Matthew Haughey's internet content farm" as well.
posted by boo_radley at 8:16 AM on December 31, 2012
posted by boo_radley at 8:16 AM on December 31, 2012
boo_radley: But it is now.
No, it's just MeFi Mail that is disabled. A disabled account says "This account is disabled."
posted by Rock Steady at 8:55 AM on December 31, 2012
No, it's just MeFi Mail that is disabled. A disabled account says "This account is disabled."
posted by Rock Steady at 8:55 AM on December 31, 2012
It shows MeMail being disabled, not the account.
spitbull, I do get where you're coming from - I just think there was another way to get those questions addressed. Like not here, and more...thoughtfully.
posted by batmonkey at 8:56 AM on December 31, 2012
spitbull, I do get where you're coming from - I just think there was another way to get those questions addressed. Like not here, and more...thoughtfully.
posted by batmonkey at 8:56 AM on December 31, 2012
"Thoughtful" is not his strong suit.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 8:59 AM on December 31, 2012
posted by to sir with millipedes at 8:59 AM on December 31, 2012
Rock Steady: "boo_radley: But it is now.
No, it's just MeFi Mail that is disabled. A disabled account says "This account is disabled.""
Yeah. Geez, I could have sworn I saw that phrase earlier. Maybe I was just inattentive.
to sir with millipedes: ""Thoughtful" is not his strong suit."
Hey, c'mon.
posted by boo_radley at 9:10 AM on December 31, 2012
No, it's just MeFi Mail that is disabled. A disabled account says "This account is disabled.""
Yeah. Geez, I could have sworn I saw that phrase earlier. Maybe I was just inattentive.
to sir with millipedes: ""Thoughtful" is not his strong suit."
Hey, c'mon.
posted by boo_radley at 9:10 AM on December 31, 2012
Also, the breathlessness of that post as if this was some radical new idea (Native plus Black music who woulda thunk?) just shows pretty deep ignorance about a cultural fusion that is more than a century old now, or even if you want to limit it to reggae, 30 or so years old.
And as I think about it, at least in the US, Native American reggae is arguably in its fourth generation.
I'm curious, how long do you think a musical generation lasts? I would have said at least a decade, minimum.
Funny how you can't say anything on metafilter that might offend a left-handed green haired rhesus monkey, but you can stereotype and essentialize Native people, no problem.
Well, let's test that theory: Left-handed green haired rhesus monkeys are lazy, they steal, they look funny when they wear our clothes, and their ceremonial dress is just ridiculous. Their religion is inherently stupid, their noses are ridiculous, and they can suck macaque.
posted by dubold at 12:50 PM on December 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
And as I think about it, at least in the US, Native American reggae is arguably in its fourth generation.
I'm curious, how long do you think a musical generation lasts? I would have said at least a decade, minimum.
Funny how you can't say anything on metafilter that might offend a left-handed green haired rhesus monkey, but you can stereotype and essentialize Native people, no problem.
Well, let's test that theory: Left-handed green haired rhesus monkeys are lazy, they steal, they look funny when they wear our clothes, and their ceremonial dress is just ridiculous. Their religion is inherently stupid, their noses are ridiculous, and they can suck macaque.
posted by dubold at 12:50 PM on December 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sir, I will not have you make light of my mandrill!
Also, let's please stop shitting on spitbull. It reflects poorly on everyone. Cultural appropriation is a legitimate issue and it needs addressing in one way or another. Maybe not here and not like this, but dismissing the concern as gauche is just as bad.
posted by Nomyte at 1:33 PM on December 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
Also, let's please stop shitting on spitbull. It reflects poorly on everyone. Cultural appropriation is a legitimate issue and it needs addressing in one way or another. Maybe not here and not like this, but dismissing the concern as gauche is just as bad.
posted by Nomyte at 1:33 PM on December 31, 2012 [4 favorites]
Don't worry, if the past is any guide, he will likely be back.
posted by chinston at 3:56 PM on December 31, 2012
posted by chinston at 3:56 PM on December 31, 2012
Also, let's please stop shitting on spitbull. It reflects poorly on everyone. Cultural appropriation is a legitimate issue and it needs addressing in one way or another. Maybe not here and not like this, but dismissing the concern as gauche is just as bad.
You're mixing the legitimancy of the issue of cultural appropriation with spitbull's take on what's an appropriate way to handle that. We can agree that it's an important subject too often ignored, and find the idea that spitbull is the Chairman of the Committee of Checking the Ethnicity of Internet Commenters distasteful.
posted by OmieWise at 6:36 PM on December 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
You're mixing the legitimancy of the issue of cultural appropriation with spitbull's take on what's an appropriate way to handle that. We can agree that it's an important subject too often ignored, and find the idea that spitbull is the Chairman of the Committee of Checking the Ethnicity of Internet Commenters distasteful.
posted by OmieWise at 6:36 PM on December 31, 2012 [1 favorite]
OmieWise: "legitimancy "
The best kind of wizard.
posted by boo_radley at 6:53 PM on December 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
The best kind of wizard.
posted by boo_radley at 6:53 PM on December 31, 2012 [3 favorites]
We can agree that it's an important subject too often ignored, and find the idea that spitbull is the Chairman of the Committee of Checking the Ethnicity of Internet Commenters distasteful.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm struggling to see how what spitbull says is in anyway inappropriate -- and it's disingenous to describe Andrade as 'just another internet commenter'. He's a recording artist who has come in here, in part at least, seeking to promote a new release of his work. And all spitbull did was to ask him -- politely, from what I can see -- to expand on some of the statements that he'd made in his comment.
I imagine the only reason that Andrade hasn't been subjected to much more of those questions, and framed much less politely, is because he hasn't shifted enough product to make it an issue for anyone yet.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:53 AM on January 1, 2013
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm struggling to see how what spitbull says is in anyway inappropriate -- and it's disingenous to describe Andrade as 'just another internet commenter'. He's a recording artist who has come in here, in part at least, seeking to promote a new release of his work. And all spitbull did was to ask him -- politely, from what I can see -- to expand on some of the statements that he'd made in his comment.
I imagine the only reason that Andrade hasn't been subjected to much more of those questions, and framed much less politely, is because he hasn't shifted enough product to make it an issue for anyone yet.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:53 AM on January 1, 2013
At the risk of appearing naive, spitbull's question may be considered inappropriate because he wasn't very nice about it. But spitbull has a history of writing with conviction, and this is definitely an issue many people feel quite strongly about.
It's a related, but separate question whether we should reserve "red carpet treatment" for (for lack of a better term) content creators who appear in FPPs that mention them. I myself think that this makes as much sense as letting notable figures draft their own Wikipedia pages. Metafilter at its most basic is a content aggregator. Users tell each other about stuff and then go look at it. In my 2.5 years here, I don't remember seeing a lot of cases where the artist's/author's/designer's one-time appearance added much of interest to that process. (Well, I do remember l*****s, whose name I fear to mention.) By and large, Metafilter is nice enough to newcomers. There's no imperative to walk on eggshells around visiting content creators.
posted by Nomyte at 10:52 AM on January 1, 2013
It's a related, but separate question whether we should reserve "red carpet treatment" for (for lack of a better term) content creators who appear in FPPs that mention them. I myself think that this makes as much sense as letting notable figures draft their own Wikipedia pages. Metafilter at its most basic is a content aggregator. Users tell each other about stuff and then go look at it. In my 2.5 years here, I don't remember seeing a lot of cases where the artist's/author's/designer's one-time appearance added much of interest to that process. (Well, I do remember l*****s, whose name I fear to mention.) By and large, Metafilter is nice enough to newcomers. There's no imperative to walk on eggshells around visiting content creators.
posted by Nomyte at 10:52 AM on January 1, 2013
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posted by Navelgazer at 4:15 PM on December 30, 2012