"You got your Male Privilege in my White Privilege!" September 8, 2014 11:34 AM Subscribe
The recent post that draws an analogy between White privilege and being a bicyclist in a world designed for cars was deleted for being too similar to a post two months ago that draws an analogy between male privilege and being a bicyclist in a world designed for cars.
Personally, I think it's a good analogy in general. But I feel like the article on white privilege was particularly well-written, fleshing out the details of the analogy as well as providing readers with a prescription for how to talk to people when they get defensive about the mention of "privilege" of any sort. This alone warranted a good FPP in my opinion, granted my perspective is more myopic than the staff's.
The deletion reason says the post was similar enough to the first bike analogy thread that it was probably not worth rehashing in a new thread, but I disagree. Yes, they both used the same analogy, but male privilege is different enough from White privilege. The part I take issue with is the idea it's not worth rehashing in a new thread. Even though both discussions center around privilege, I don't know if both versions could have thoroughly been discussed in the same thread. Whiteness was only mentioned tangentially in the male privilege thread, along with the other major characteristics of the "unmarked" American (e.g., White, male, heterosexual, cisgendered, etc.). Sometimes these threads just turn into a bunch of anecdata, but sometimes even that anecdata is useful. Who knows? It really depends on the timing.
Regardless, the first post is exactly two months old (Happy Birthday, post!). Should the second OP have just posted a pseudo FPP to the end of the dead thread? I would be fine with that if the post got "revived" and appeared on the front page sidebar again or something, but adding links to dead threads typically doesn't provide much information or generate much meaningful discussion, especially from anyone who wasn't invested in the original thread. However, I do recall the rare situation where separate posts are manually threaded together by a moderator, but my understanding is that technique is used under more time-sensitive circumstances.
If the second article came about while the first thread was still active, would adding the lens of White privilege to the discussion have been treated as a derail anyway?
After all the background information, that's all I'm really asking here. What suggestion(s) do moderators and users have for this specific situation, as well as the more general problem when a previous post is "not quite previously enough"? People sometimes suggest to build up the FPP's content in order to differentiate it from an earlier post, the problem with that being extra homework required for the poster or an unintentional change in the post's framing.
This is pretty much an uncanny valley of topic similarity and moderation dilemma, but in case anyone asks "What do you hope to accomplish with this MeTa?" I'll be honest about my hidden agenda upfront so you don't have to go looking for it: Having completely missed the male privilege version of the thread, I was disappointed the bike analogy article wouldn't get more exposure because it's just that good at providing some introductory language to disarm people who refuse to discuss privilege—white, male, or otherwise.
Personally, I think it's a good analogy in general. But I feel like the article on white privilege was particularly well-written, fleshing out the details of the analogy as well as providing readers with a prescription for how to talk to people when they get defensive about the mention of "privilege" of any sort. This alone warranted a good FPP in my opinion, granted my perspective is more myopic than the staff's.
The deletion reason says the post was similar enough to the first bike analogy thread that it was probably not worth rehashing in a new thread, but I disagree. Yes, they both used the same analogy, but male privilege is different enough from White privilege. The part I take issue with is the idea it's not worth rehashing in a new thread. Even though both discussions center around privilege, I don't know if both versions could have thoroughly been discussed in the same thread. Whiteness was only mentioned tangentially in the male privilege thread, along with the other major characteristics of the "unmarked" American (e.g., White, male, heterosexual, cisgendered, etc.). Sometimes these threads just turn into a bunch of anecdata, but sometimes even that anecdata is useful. Who knows? It really depends on the timing.
Regardless, the first post is exactly two months old (Happy Birthday, post!). Should the second OP have just posted a pseudo FPP to the end of the dead thread? I would be fine with that if the post got "revived" and appeared on the front page sidebar again or something, but adding links to dead threads typically doesn't provide much information or generate much meaningful discussion, especially from anyone who wasn't invested in the original thread. However, I do recall the rare situation where separate posts are manually threaded together by a moderator, but my understanding is that technique is used under more time-sensitive circumstances.
If the second article came about while the first thread was still active, would adding the lens of White privilege to the discussion have been treated as a derail anyway?
After all the background information, that's all I'm really asking here. What suggestion(s) do moderators and users have for this specific situation, as well as the more general problem when a previous post is "not quite previously enough"? People sometimes suggest to build up the FPP's content in order to differentiate it from an earlier post, the problem with that being extra homework required for the poster or an unintentional change in the post's framing.
This is pretty much an uncanny valley of topic similarity and moderation dilemma, but in case anyone asks "What do you hope to accomplish with this MeTa?" I'll be honest about my hidden agenda upfront so you don't have to go looking for it: Having completely missed the male privilege version of the thread, I was disappointed the bike analogy article wouldn't get more exposure because it's just that good at providing some introductory language to disarm people who refuse to discuss privilege—white, male, or otherwise.
I was disappointed the bike analogy article wouldn't get more exposure because it's just that good at providing some introductory language to disarm people who refuse to discuss privilege—white, male, or otherwise.
Sounds like a consciousness-raising exercise. Which is one of those things where people are often looking to
1. convert other MeFites (fighty, preachy, shrill)
2. argue about how other non-MeFite people need to get a clue about things (concern trolling, aggressive devil's advocating, violent agreement)
Both of those are sort of ... less-awesome in the general calculus of how MeFi can be awesome. I get that for people who really like these topics, this may have been a really good example of them. That said, these aren't even topics that are universally liked (or agreed upon) so you wind up with a bunch of first-principle heel-digging stuff (usually) before you can even talk about the thing. So even with the best article on this topic (which may be this one and not the one from two months ago, and yes I get that they are differing viewpoints on the same general umbrella set of terms) we're still not in "Needs its own post here" territory and still a lot into "We sort of had a related post not too long ago" territory.
I do recall the rare situation where separate posts are manually threaded together by a moderator
To the best of my knowledge this has actually never happened (unless there has been a very recent toolset change, because this didn't used to be a tool that existed).
I (a non-mod) find a lot of these threads exhausting and tiresome even though I get why people like them and I tend to be in agreement that it's useful to have these discussions even if I may not personally like them. But I can very clearly see the "make a better thread on this topic which is a lot like a recent thread" perspective.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 11:55 AM on September 8, 2014 [11 favorites]
Sounds like a consciousness-raising exercise. Which is one of those things where people are often looking to
1. convert other MeFites (fighty, preachy, shrill)
2. argue about how other non-MeFite people need to get a clue about things (concern trolling, aggressive devil's advocating, violent agreement)
Both of those are sort of ... less-awesome in the general calculus of how MeFi can be awesome. I get that for people who really like these topics, this may have been a really good example of them. That said, these aren't even topics that are universally liked (or agreed upon) so you wind up with a bunch of first-principle heel-digging stuff (usually) before you can even talk about the thing. So even with the best article on this topic (which may be this one and not the one from two months ago, and yes I get that they are differing viewpoints on the same general umbrella set of terms) we're still not in "Needs its own post here" territory and still a lot into "We sort of had a related post not too long ago" territory.
I do recall the rare situation where separate posts are manually threaded together by a moderator
To the best of my knowledge this has actually never happened (unless there has been a very recent toolset change, because this didn't used to be a tool that existed).
I (a non-mod) find a lot of these threads exhausting and tiresome even though I get why people like them and I tend to be in agreement that it's useful to have these discussions even if I may not personally like them. But I can very clearly see the "make a better thread on this topic which is a lot like a recent thread" perspective.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 11:55 AM on September 8, 2014 [11 favorites]
I liked the post, didn't see the earlier one. I think it's a much better metaphor than the whole "easy mode" thing that has been tossed around before.
posted by Drinky Die at 11:56 AM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Drinky Die at 11:56 AM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
jessamyn: "
1. convert other MeFites (fighty, preachy, shrill)
2. argue about how other non-MeFite people need to get a clue about things (concern trolling, aggressive devil's advocating, violent agreement)
"
Are the parentheticals summations or something else? Practical mod experience?
posted by boo_radley at 12:02 PM on September 8, 2014
1. convert other MeFites (fighty, preachy, shrill)
2. argue about how other non-MeFite people need to get a clue about things (concern trolling, aggressive devil's advocating, violent agreement)
"
Are the parentheticals summations or something else? Practical mod experience?
posted by boo_radley at 12:02 PM on September 8, 2014
Okay, thanks for the perspectives and the suggestions. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most realistic person in the world when it comes to how I expect Internet denizens to behave.
And I think jessamyn was just providing general examples of the types of people who engage in these consciousness-raising attempts on this forum. I'll admit I'm not looking to convert anyone or start an argument, only to highlight a useful toolkit for discussing privilege.
But even that is highly idealistic, I understand.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:09 PM on September 8, 2014
And I think jessamyn was just providing general examples of the types of people who engage in these consciousness-raising attempts on this forum. I'll admit I'm not looking to convert anyone or start an argument, only to highlight a useful toolkit for discussing privilege.
But even that is highly idealistic, I understand.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:09 PM on September 8, 2014
I thought the race/bike post got posted to one of the Ferguson threads. Am I misremembering?
posted by rmd1023 at 12:13 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by rmd1023 at 12:13 PM on September 8, 2014
It's like FPP Mad Libs: what fashionable creative class lifestyle choice taught me about form of oppression.
Now that I've cracked the code, I could crank out a Medium article a day, no problem:
Now that I've cracked the code, I could crank out a Medium article a day, no problem:
- What joining a CSA taught me about transphobia
- What breastfeeding taught me about Ferguson
- What eating a gluten-free diet taught me about the plight of undocumented migrants
- What feeling ambivalent about moving to a gentrifying neighborhood taught me about ableism
- What attachment parenting taught me about colonialism
I'll admit I'm not looking to convert anyone or start an argument, only to highlight a useful toolkit for discussing privilege
There's a presumption of consensus underlying that statement which is...disheartening and enervating, to me. A MeFi in which such a post would merely be "here's a new, well-written pamphlet you can turn to on your next mission among the heathens" is a MeFi of such ideological uniformity one can safely presume that there are no heathens among us. I'd rather live in Alexandria than Jerusalem myself, though this may be a long lost cause.
posted by Diablevert at 12:24 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
There's a presumption of consensus underlying that statement which is...disheartening and enervating, to me. A MeFi in which such a post would merely be "here's a new, well-written pamphlet you can turn to on your next mission among the heathens" is a MeFi of such ideological uniformity one can safely presume that there are no heathens among us. I'd rather live in Alexandria than Jerusalem myself, though this may be a long lost cause.
posted by Diablevert at 12:24 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
Now that I've cracked the code
...it's time to write a Cracked article.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 12:26 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
...it's time to write a Cracked article.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 12:26 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
> I thought the race/bike post got posted to one of the Ferguson threads. Am I misremembering?
I can't find it after a quick look at the big Ferguson thread, but it's entirely possible someone has already posted it. A few of the recent FPPs have actually spawned from discussions within the larger Ferguson thread.
Which I guess is a good example of how the real estate works on MeFi. It's not like discussions are commodified or anything, but I can certainly see how there isn't much of a choice but to elaborate on the framing of the particular topic if you're posting anything that overlaps with existing discourse.
> There's a presumption of consensus underlying that statement which is...disheartening and enervating, to me.
Hence the very next line where I admit that is idealistic rather than realistic. I was going to add "because some people don't even believe this privilege exists in the first place" to that sentence, but I thought it wouldn't be necessary.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:30 PM on September 8, 2014
I can't find it after a quick look at the big Ferguson thread, but it's entirely possible someone has already posted it. A few of the recent FPPs have actually spawned from discussions within the larger Ferguson thread.
Which I guess is a good example of how the real estate works on MeFi. It's not like discussions are commodified or anything, but I can certainly see how there isn't much of a choice but to elaborate on the framing of the particular topic if you're posting anything that overlaps with existing discourse.
> There's a presumption of consensus underlying that statement which is...disheartening and enervating, to me.
Hence the very next line where I admit that is idealistic rather than realistic. I was going to add "because some people don't even believe this privilege exists in the first place" to that sentence, but I thought it wouldn't be necessary.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:30 PM on September 8, 2014
Are the parentheticals summations or something else? Practical mod experience?
As someone who has, in the past, had to read the bulk of those threads, that is my somewhat-jaded impression of how they go. My experience of MetaFilter is so much different now that I do not have to read those threads. I now never read them and am not only much happier, I like people here more.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 12:41 PM on September 8, 2014 [35 favorites]
As someone who has, in the past, had to read the bulk of those threads, that is my somewhat-jaded impression of how they go. My experience of MetaFilter is so much different now that I do not have to read those threads. I now never read them and am not only much happier, I like people here more.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 12:41 PM on September 8, 2014 [35 favorites]
Ah, well, many MeFites, many MetaFilters. While I actually didn't like the bicycle/white privilege piece very much, posts about how to talk about privilege and marginalization are really useful to me in my line of work and I read them with great interest. I understand that they have a greater tendency to get contentious than many other sorts of OPs, and I'm glad I don't have to read and monitor them all as jessamyn used to have to do. But they are a favorite sort of post topic for me.
And for people with interests in a specific topic, posts that look very similar to a disinterested other often seem obviously and totally distinct ("that was a video about a cat in a shoe box and this cat is in a cereal box, which has totally different dimensions and thus cat-compression physics!"). . .
posted by DrMew at 1:12 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
And for people with interests in a specific topic, posts that look very similar to a disinterested other often seem obviously and totally distinct ("that was a video about a cat in a shoe box and this cat is in a cereal box, which has totally different dimensions and thus cat-compression physics!"). . .
posted by DrMew at 1:12 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
The post would never have been deleted if it had been posted by a car driver.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:31 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 1:31 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
In this analogy, where do pedestrians (who are cussed at by cyclists and gunned down by motorists) fit it?
posted by Nevin at 1:38 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by Nevin at 1:38 PM on September 8, 2014
In this analogy, where do pedestrians (who are cussed at by cyclists and gunned down by motorists) fit it? As innocent children?
posted by Nevin at 1:39 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Nevin at 1:39 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
As innocent children?
Inability to use the edit function ≠ "child-like."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:42 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
Inability to use the edit function ≠ "child-like."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:42 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
In this analogy, where do pedestrians (who are cussed at by cyclists and gunned down by motorists) fit it? As innocent children?
Serious question?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2014
Serious question?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2014
In this analogy, where do pedestrians
The most privileged of all have the luxury to travel to their destination at 3 MPH.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:18 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
The most privileged of all have the luxury to travel to their destination at 3 MPH.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:18 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
I have no opinion on the subject of this post. I'm making this comment so that it will show up in my recent activity in the hope that it will blossom into a longboat filled with silly bicycle jokes.
posted by double block and bleed at 3:08 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by double block and bleed at 3:08 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
Anticipating derails from some derailleurs?
posted by benito.strauss at 3:35 PM on September 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 3:35 PM on September 8, 2014 [8 favorites]
A bicycle leaves Chicago at 4:15pm traveling toward St. Louis at 10mph. A car leaves St. Louis at 5:20pm that same day traveling toward Chicago at 75mph. If it is 296 miles between Chicago and St. Louis, where does this fit into this analogy?
posted by shakespeherian at 3:37 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 3:37 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
White guys.
posted by Bugbread at 3:42 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Bugbread at 3:42 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I have no opinion on the subject of this post. I'm making this comment so that it will show up in my recent activity in the hope that it will blossom into a longboat filled with silly bicycle jokes.
Is this a good time to point out I still want a "press button, add to recent activity" pony?
posted by Drinky Die at 3:47 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Is this a good time to point out I still want a "press button, add to recent activity" pony?
posted by Drinky Die at 3:47 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
What do you think "Add to activity" does?
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 3:51 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 3:51 PM on September 8, 2014
jessamyn: "What do you think "Add to activity" does?"
What are you talking about?
posted by Bugbread at 3:56 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
What are you talking about?
posted by Bugbread at 3:56 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah I don't know what that is or where to click on it but if it does my pony and you can point it out to me, Thanks!
posted by Drinky Die at 3:59 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by Drinky Die at 3:59 PM on September 8, 2014
I think that's still only an experimental mod-facing thing, scramble the memory-erasers squad and flood the room with sleep gas
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:00 PM on September 8, 2014 [28 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:00 PM on September 8, 2014 [28 favorites]
like I was saying I demand...uh...Clavdivs for moderator?
posted by Drinky Die at 4:01 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 4:01 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
What are you talking about?
Clearly nonsense, as per usual. I was wondering why it didn't do anything when I pressed it.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
Clearly nonsense, as per usual. I was wondering why it didn't do anything when I pressed it.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2014 [9 favorites]
I think that's still only an experimental mod-facing thing, scramble the memory-erasers squad and flood the room with sleep gas
OMG OMG OM- zzzzzz
posted by zarq at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
OMG OMG OM- zzzzzz
posted by zarq at 4:04 PM on September 8, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think that's still only an experimental mod-facing thing, scramble the memory-erasers squad and flood the room with sleep gas
Aw man, that's a great pony request that gets shot down every time it comes up. I understand why we can't have the img tag but oh, my kingdom for an "add to activity" button (and no, favoriting and reading it in the My Favorites tab instead is not the same).
posted by dialetheia at 4:20 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Aw man, that's a great pony request that gets shot down every time it comes up. I understand why we can't have the img tag but oh, my kingdom for an "add to activity" button (and no, favoriting and reading it in the My Favorites tab instead is not the same).
posted by dialetheia at 4:20 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I've always been a big proponent for it too, but while we have at least gotten as far as experimenting with it on a super-low-load basis (only the mods, using it only occasionally), it hasn't been something we've really had on further development radar with everything else bad and good that's been going on lately. We'll hopefully get a chance to try and polish it up more and find a way to see if it's really viable as a general feature at some point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:25 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:25 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm a person of colour and feel extremely reluctant to comment on this, because the way this thread is going I do not want it to be assumed I am speaking on behalf of anyone (what I mean by this is it does not seem like other people are chiming in with personal insight). I am nevertheless writing to offer an alternative opinion that has not yet been raised. To be blunt, I found the article quite upsetting. I do think the moderators did the right thing in deleting the thread, as I find it quite offensive to explain white privilege in such a fashion. If the post was left on site, well-meaning comments might have taken the discussion into unpleasant areas and it would be a hassle for the moderators to monitor and clean up. On the other hand it would be nice to get some more genuine race-related discussion going on Metafilter, as I feel this is one area the site can do better in. So I do see why someone wanting to improve the community would post this.
I realize the author had good intentions and wanted to help others, but I feel that if the realities of racism have to be dumbed down to such an extent for readers to "get it", then there is some willful blindness going on with the audience. I for one am tired of coming up with cutesy ways to help people who really should know better come to grips with their outdated prejudices, and I feel too often such articles are humoring people who really don't care, and don't want to absorb any new information, but want to appear as if they do.
posted by partly squamous and partly rugose at 4:27 PM on September 8, 2014 [27 favorites]
I realize the author had good intentions and wanted to help others, but I feel that if the realities of racism have to be dumbed down to such an extent for readers to "get it", then there is some willful blindness going on with the audience. I for one am tired of coming up with cutesy ways to help people who really should know better come to grips with their outdated prejudices, and I feel too often such articles are humoring people who really don't care, and don't want to absorb any new information, but want to appear as if they do.
posted by partly squamous and partly rugose at 4:27 PM on September 8, 2014 [27 favorites]
"What do you think "Add to activity" does?"
That has been my most-wanted pony since I first started reading this site. I'm glad to hear that it has gotten as far as a mod-only tool at least.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:40 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
That has been my most-wanted pony since I first started reading this site. I'm glad to hear that it has gotten as far as a mod-only tool at least.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:40 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is not the pony you are looking for.
*waves hand*
posted by arcticseal at 5:24 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
*waves hand*
posted by arcticseal at 5:24 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Do Not Approach The Mod Park
posted by Drinky Die at 5:34 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by Drinky Die at 5:34 PM on September 8, 2014
Jessamyn still has mod-facing stuff?
(To be clear I have no problem with that, I'm just curious)
posted by shakespeherian at 5:39 PM on September 8, 2014
(To be clear I have no problem with that, I'm just curious)
posted by shakespeherian at 5:39 PM on September 8, 2014
Yeah, didn't seem to make much sense to shut most of it off unless she specifically wanted it to be so. She doesn't get the torrent of contact form stuff anymore and I think there were a couple other small things as well where it would be more of an annoyance for her to still have it on than not, but otherwise why muss with it when she's approximately the most trustworthy person on the planet.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:43 PM on September 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:43 PM on September 8, 2014 [12 favorites]
What attachment parenting taught me about colonialism
I'd buy that book, actually.
posted by spitbull at 5:52 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'd buy that book, actually.
posted by spitbull at 5:52 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I've learned a lot about privilege from getting too many tomatoes in my CSA this week.
posted by michaelh at 6:02 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by michaelh at 6:02 PM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Jessamyn still has mod-facing stuff?
Break-ups are hard.
posted by Kabanos at 6:57 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Break-ups are hard.
posted by Kabanos at 6:57 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
Also, when MetaFilter gets taken over by a band of Gawkerian terrorists, they block all the current mod's, but neglect to block jessamyn, because she's ex-MeFi, right?
Matt remembers that she still has the Mod Tools deployed, and figures it's the best way back in. So he sends cortex across the country to NH to ask if she'll do this one last operation. It's my favorite scene, cortex trying to tempt her back and all the while she keeps her back to him, reshelving books as they argue. Finally she turns around and says "It was starting to feel like my return was .... overdue.", snaps shut the book she's holding, and they head out the door to the rolling title "MetaFilter II: Mod Harder".
posted by benito.strauss at 7:01 PM on September 8, 2014 [41 favorites]
Matt remembers that she still has the Mod Tools deployed, and figures it's the best way back in. So he sends cortex across the country to NH to ask if she'll do this one last operation. It's my favorite scene, cortex trying to tempt her back and all the while she keeps her back to him, reshelving books as they argue. Finally she turns around and says "It was starting to feel like my return was .... overdue.", snaps shut the book she's holding, and they head out the door to the rolling title "MetaFilter II: Mod Harder".
posted by benito.strauss at 7:01 PM on September 8, 2014 [41 favorites]
Sigourney Weaver as jessamyn.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:09 PM on September 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 7:09 PM on September 8, 2014 [7 favorites]
Oh god no, I put jessamyn in New Hampshire, not Vermont, and the edit window's expired. Can I plead the fact that I didn't grow up in New England, and have never lived North of Somerville? I'm dreading the next meet-up.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:15 PM on September 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 7:15 PM on September 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
I was considering writing a brief scene that involved me giving a big impassioned speech to the back of some random look-alike librarian in New Hampshire while Jessamyn quietly read a book on a deck chair in Vermont, but it felt like poking too much fun at you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:19 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:19 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
jessamyn: "Just when I thought I was out... THEY PULL ME BACK IN."
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:21 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:21 PM on September 8, 2014
I'm out of the cabal now, aren't I?
posted by benito.strauss at 7:32 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by benito.strauss at 7:32 PM on September 8, 2014
The what?
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 7:43 PM on September 8, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 7:43 PM on September 8, 2014 [10 favorites]
The recent post that draws an analogy between White privilege and being a bicyclist in a world designed for cars was deleted for being too similar to a post two months ago that draws an analogy between male privilege and being a bicyclist in a world designed for cars.This might be the most MetaFilter thing anyone has said, ever.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:45 PM on September 8, 2014 [14 favorites]
In a world where buzzing listicles have taken over the Internet, only one woman can return us to sanity.
posted by arcticseal at 8:05 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 8:05 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm out of the cabal now, aren't I?
posted by benito.strauss at 19:32 on September 8 [+] [!]
The what?
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 19:43 on September 8 [+] [!]
I sure wish more folks would join my cabal, tasked to dispose of this 55 gallon drum of pure grain alcohol without delay.
~39 gallons remain. Who'da thunk it would be so difficult to give away powerful spirits?
Also: I am just about equal parts motorist, cyclist and pedestrian. Is it OK to claim I am multicultural?
posted by Pudhoho at 8:16 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by benito.strauss at 19:32 on September 8 [+] [!]
The what?
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 19:43 on September 8 [+] [!]
I sure wish more folks would join my cabal, tasked to dispose of this 55 gallon drum of pure grain alcohol without delay.
~39 gallons remain. Who'da thunk it would be so difficult to give away powerful spirits?
Also: I am just about equal parts motorist, cyclist and pedestrian. Is it OK to claim I am multicultural?
posted by Pudhoho at 8:16 PM on September 8, 2014
Sigourney Weaver as jessamyn.
In a world where buzzing listicles have taken over the Internet, only one woman can return us to sanity.
In cyberspace, no one can hear you scream.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:26 PM on September 8, 2014
In a world where buzzing listicles have taken over the Internet, only one woman can return us to sanity.
In cyberspace, no one can hear you scream.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:26 PM on September 8, 2014
It's part of a series of articles that have been posted to Mefi purporting to "explain privilege" to those who are supposedly just a metaphor away from understanding it. This seems to be a misguided tack based on a misdiagnosis of why people disagree on topics like race and gender. The authors of this kind of article seem to think the barrier to consensus is a failure to understand concepts. I don't think so. It's actually very easy to define "privilege" — I'd say it's unearned, unfair, entrenched advantage. You might want to tweak that, but that's the gist, and it's a pretty simple idea. So I don't believe that defining words or understanding concepts is the sticking point. The thing is: I don't agree that at every turn, it's harder to be a woman than to be a man. There were women also saying they disagree with that in the thread, and I'm not going to tell those women they're wrong. And I don't need to rely on online comments or articles; I've made my observations of the world, and my observation tells me that gender-related privilege/oppression is far more complicated than men consistently being on top, oppressing women. I don't think that's even accurate about the bad old days before feminism, let alone today. There are blacks who admit they've been given an easier ride due to race, and I'm not going to tell them they're wrong. If you think "privilege" is just what whites and men and straight people have, while everyone else is "oppressed," then I think you've drastically oversimplified the world. I know many will disagree with me about that — but if all you have to tell me is that I "don't understand" because I'm a white man who hasn't heard the right metaphor, then I'm going to suspect you're more interested in your own ability to write eloquently or link to other people's eloquent writing, than with actually trying to change anyone's mind.
posted by John Cohen at 10:17 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by John Cohen at 10:17 PM on September 8, 2014 [3 favorites]
I was considering writing a brief scene that involved me giving a big impassioned speech to the back of some random look-alike librarian in New Hampshire while Jessamyn quietly read a book on a deck chair in Vermont, but it felt like poking too much fun at you.
Nix New Hampshire, 100% Vermont, and retain the impassioned speech.
No credits - we begin with several beats of black, and then you begin to speak.
Now we have that fantastic dolly, like the opening of The Godfather, to reveal Jessamyn clad in an over-sized expensive men's long-sleeved dress shirt that acts like a robe over her Macy's one-piece bathing suit.
We see one hand idly petting the enormous cat on her lap.
We discover now Jessamyn is semi reclined on an ancient deck chair.
She also wears a straw sun hat with a large brim and a pair of Wayfarers in front of her eyes. She is reading [something].
Now we hear cows lowing, sotto voce beneath your speech.
Jessamyn is oblivious to your words. We also see now a tiny round table with a pitcher and a tall glass perched upon it.
The camera reveals that Jessamyn is relaxing near the edge of a pond, surrounded by cows.
Now your speech is finished, Jessamyn always completely oblivious to it.
The cat exits her lap. She sighs and places her book where the cat was.
We lean in - she takes a sip from the tall class at her elbow, sighs again and continues to read.
The cows continue to low, louder now, and there's a little wind.
Three beats and now there's another voice, foreign, maybe Canadian (sub titles of course), a waiter (the last shot of Body Heat) who equires if Jessamyn would like a refill.
END.
posted by Pudhoho at 10:54 PM on September 8, 2014
Nix New Hampshire, 100% Vermont, and retain the impassioned speech.
No credits - we begin with several beats of black, and then you begin to speak.
Now we have that fantastic dolly, like the opening of The Godfather, to reveal Jessamyn clad in an over-sized expensive men's long-sleeved dress shirt that acts like a robe over her Macy's one-piece bathing suit.
We see one hand idly petting the enormous cat on her lap.
We discover now Jessamyn is semi reclined on an ancient deck chair.
She also wears a straw sun hat with a large brim and a pair of Wayfarers in front of her eyes. She is reading [something].
Now we hear cows lowing, sotto voce beneath your speech.
Jessamyn is oblivious to your words. We also see now a tiny round table with a pitcher and a tall glass perched upon it.
The camera reveals that Jessamyn is relaxing near the edge of a pond, surrounded by cows.
Now your speech is finished, Jessamyn always completely oblivious to it.
The cat exits her lap. She sighs and places her book where the cat was.
We lean in - she takes a sip from the tall class at her elbow, sighs again and continues to read.
The cows continue to low, louder now, and there's a little wind.
Three beats and now there's another voice, foreign, maybe Canadian (sub titles of course), a waiter (the last shot of Body Heat) who equires if Jessamyn would like a refill.
END.
posted by Pudhoho at 10:54 PM on September 8, 2014
I had not seen that (first) bike analogy thread. I mostly like the article, as it's an analogy that will speak to some of us, but I have to say, that article is very much US-centric. As a Dutch person, I find that the analogy doesn't work for me at all.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:29 AM on September 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:29 AM on September 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
benito.strauss: "MetaFilter II: Mod Harder"
This is the best "movie/TV show pitch in a comment" ever.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:08 AM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is the best "movie/TV show pitch in a comment" ever.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:08 AM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
posted by four panels at 8:18 AM on September 9, 2014
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
posted by four panels at 8:18 AM on September 9, 2014
John Cohen: If you think "privilege" is just what whites and men and straight people have, while everyone else is "oppressed," then I think you've drastically oversimplified the world.
You're referring to intersectionality. Our social identities (social being defined in the traditional sense, not 'as in social media') are complex and intersectional, and an accurate understanding of an individual's oppression and/or privilege can only come from an holistic, not reductionist approach.
posted by zarq at 9:42 AM on September 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
You're referring to intersectionality. Our social identities (social being defined in the traditional sense, not 'as in social media') are complex and intersectional, and an accurate understanding of an individual's oppression and/or privilege can only come from an holistic, not reductionist approach.
posted by zarq at 9:42 AM on September 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
FWIW, I posted the newer article because it did seem a much more thoughtful, fleshed-out essay on the same-old same-old. I wanted to prompt discussion on finding new ways of recognizing internal biases: we all have them, and it's truly refreshing to come across a new way of looking inward at yourself and at the world around you, which this article really accomplished and developed.
The last five paragraphs of the (tl;dr?) article were particularly good in the sense of recognizing what biases feel like from both sides. Not just "here's what my life is like! It sucks!" (which is where the ride-like-a-girl pictorial went and ended) but
So–white readers–the next time someone drops the p-word, try to remember they aren’t calling you a racist or saying you didn’t really earn your college degree, they just want you to try empathize with how scary it is to be on a bike sometimes (metaphorically speaking).
So I gave it the title 'a new perspective', and I tried to write the first sentence as more inclusive than divisive ('if you've ridden a bike', which is most of us, as opposed to 'ride like a girl').
posted by Dashy at 10:27 AM on September 9, 2014
The last five paragraphs of the (tl;dr?) article were particularly good in the sense of recognizing what biases feel like from both sides. Not just "here's what my life is like! It sucks!" (which is where the ride-like-a-girl pictorial went and ended) but
So–white readers–the next time someone drops the p-word, try to remember they aren’t calling you a racist or saying you didn’t really earn your college degree, they just want you to try empathize with how scary it is to be on a bike sometimes (metaphorically speaking).
So I gave it the title 'a new perspective', and I tried to write the first sentence as more inclusive than divisive ('if you've ridden a bike', which is most of us, as opposed to 'ride like a girl').
posted by Dashy at 10:27 AM on September 9, 2014
Soooo, Jessamyn...what other features should we all know about?
Not the mod-facing ones, of COURSE. HAHHAHAH
/cough
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:55 AM on September 9, 2014
Not the mod-facing ones, of COURSE. HAHHAHAH
/cough
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:55 AM on September 9, 2014
"Hi! I'm Miffy™, Your MetaFilter™ Assistant! You appear to be making a MetaFilter Post. Would you like to...."
....and that's when I wake up screaming.
posted by zarq at 12:12 PM on September 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
....and that's when I wake up screaming.
posted by zarq at 12:12 PM on September 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
zarq: ""Hi! I'm Miffy™, Your MetaFilter™ Assistant! You appear to be making a MetaFilter Post. Would you like to...."
....and that's when I wake up screaming."
Mine says:
"It looks like you're about to make a jackass of yourself again with the comment you're writing. Would you like to go for a walk and enjoy some fresh air and sunlight?"
posted by double block and bleed at 6:30 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
....and that's when I wake up screaming."
Mine says:
"It looks like you're about to make a jackass of yourself again with the comment you're writing. Would you like to go for a walk and enjoy some fresh air and sunlight?"
posted by double block and bleed at 6:30 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
OK. I admit it. I need that. Sign me up.
posted by zarq at 7:56 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by zarq at 7:56 PM on September 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
benito.strauss: "MetaFilter II: Mod Harder"
Perhaps it could be a parallel series to this.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:11 PM on September 9, 2014
Perhaps it could be a parallel series to this.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:11 PM on September 9, 2014
Whattaya know — I didn't even remember posting that previous item. Looks like I'm stuck in a creative rut. But I keep makin' the same kind of comments, and people keep givin' 'em favorites.
I never, ever thought I'd feel as much empathy for Bruce Willis as I'm feeling right now.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:18 PM on September 9, 2014
I never, ever thought I'd feel as much empathy for Bruce Willis as I'm feeling right now.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:18 PM on September 9, 2014
I never, ever thought I'd feel as much empathy for Bruce Willis as I'm feeling right now.
BRUCE
WILLIS
12 MOD-KEYS
The future [comment] is history.
A benito.strauss film
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:43 PM on September 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
WILLIS
12 MOD-KEYS
The future [comment] is history.
A benito.strauss film
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:43 PM on September 9, 2014 [4 favorites]
I would like to thank shakespeherian for including a math question.
The car and the bicycle pass each other 44.4 miles outside of Chicago at 8:41pm. Problem solved!
posted by cardboard at 6:07 AM on September 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
The car and the bicycle pass each other 44.4 miles outside of Chicago at 8:41pm. Problem solved!
posted by cardboard at 6:07 AM on September 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
In a world where buzzing listicles have taken over the Internet, only one woman can return us to sanity.
I read that as "return us to sanctity".
Amen.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:20 PM on September 10, 2014
I read that as "return us to sanctity".
Amen.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:20 PM on September 10, 2014
Miffy™, Your MetaFilter™ Assistant!
I haven't listened to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me! in ages, but the funniest thing ever IMO (perhaps a low bar) is when they went on for a bit riffing on an improvised morbid fantasy about murdering an oblivious Clippy: "Looks like you're trying to dig a grave! Can I help?"
She doesn't get the torrent of contact form stuff anymore
Well, if she did perhaps she would've known about the experimental, admin-only nature of t- what's that smell, it's so sweeet oh, it's mod nap time, isn't it... mm, nap... oh hiya miffy *collapses*
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:27 AM on September 11, 2014 [6 favorites]
I haven't listened to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me! in ages, but the funniest thing ever IMO (perhaps a low bar) is when they went on for a bit riffing on an improvised morbid fantasy about murdering an oblivious Clippy: "Looks like you're trying to dig a grave! Can I help?"
She doesn't get the torrent of contact form stuff anymore
Well, if she did perhaps she would've known about the experimental, admin-only nature of t- what's that smell, it's so sweeet oh, it's mod nap time, isn't it... mm, nap... oh hiya miffy *collapses*
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:27 AM on September 11, 2014 [6 favorites]
Well, if she did perhaps she would've known about the experimental, admin-only nature of t- what's that smell, it's so sweeet oh, it's mod nap time, isn't it... mm, nap... oh hiya miffy *collapses*
This confirms my long-running belief that mathowie has actually kidnapped the mods, confined them to the Village, and forced them to moderate at gas-nozzle point.
There are two main ramifications to this.
1) Cortex is actually Patrick McGoohan.
2) At long last, we know who number 1 is. And we realise that we have always known. He didn't even try to hide it! It's his user number!
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:10 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
This confirms my long-running belief that mathowie has actually kidnapped the mods, confined them to the Village, and forced them to moderate at gas-nozzle point.
There are two main ramifications to this.
1) Cortex is actually Patrick McGoohan.
2) At long last, we know who number 1 is. And we realise that we have always known. He didn't even try to hide it! It's his user number!
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:10 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
No, you are Number 6.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:02 PM on September 11, 2014
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:02 PM on September 11, 2014
a ball halp
|
~~~~~~•~~~\o/~~~~~~
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:16 AM on September 12, 2014 [4 favorites]
|
~~~~~~•~~~\o/~~~~~~
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:16 AM on September 12, 2014 [4 favorites]
He's not a number. He's a free man!
posted by zarq at 7:37 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by zarq at 7:37 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
There isn't really a great blanket solution to the problem of related posts. In general, if it's a larger topic that's gotten coverage (in this case, we've talked the hell out of race recently in the various Ferguson threads) then too-similar specific posts are going to get more scrutiny. This tends to happen a lot with feminism/sexism posts, because there is always another example to post. Probably the best solution, if you're uncertain, is to contact us and ask, and we can give you a thumbs up/down and suggest framing changes if necessary. (You can do this after a deletion, too - we're always happy to talk about our decisions in detail.)
And the usual reminder, folks, that this thread needs to not be a discussion of the article or the theories in it - thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:41 AM on September 8, 2014 [5 favorites]