Would it make more sense to put movie trailers on FanFare? July 31, 2016 4:47 PM   Subscribe

It seems like posts for movie trailers lead to discussions that are more consistent with FanFare than Metafilter. Why not put them on FanFare instead?
posted by flarbuse to Feature Requests at 4:47 PM (34 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Not a bad idea.

because then I could squee about the two trailers I've seen for Moana because OH MY GOD THEY LOOK GORGEOUS
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:52 PM on July 31, 2016 [5 favorites]


There's always gonna be some overlap between FanFare's explicit media focus and the older and still valid practice of sometimes posting about media stuff on the blue. So I get where you're coming from but there's stuff that may end up going one way or the other or even both.

With trailers specifically, it's sort of at odds with the usual situation on FanFare where a post goes up at some point after the movie/film/etc is actually released; the "this thing is coming up" dynamic is more of a classically front page situation, for the small chunk of (usually pretty high-profile) works that end up getting that sort of pre-release crowd excitement. We don't really have a "hey this hasn't come out yet!" model on FF, though it's not impossible for it to happen as a Talk sort of thing now and then.

So, sort of a balancing act between the two areas of the site. Short take might be that while trailers may well get discussed on FanFare, FanFare posts aren't usually about trailers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:52 PM on July 31, 2016 [3 favorites]


As someone who doesn't and probably never will read or participate on FanFare (a media-focused discussion forum just isn't something I desire in my life) I want to say that I enjoy the occasional movie trailer or similar that pops up in the general-interest MeFi blend, and I would be sad if that kind of thing went away. I'm totally cool with y'all jabbering away about books and movies and TV all day long over there, but my personal preference is for that kind of thing to just be a small but consistent fraction of my online intake, and MeFi has always performed admirably for me in that regard.

If people want to talk about a movie trailer in both spaces simultaneously then I'm cool with that too but I'd be kinda bummed if media discussions got siloed in FanFare at the expense of MeFi proper. I'm glad that the mods aren't planning to make any moves in that direction, and my hope is that community norms continue to be such that FanFare and MeFi exist semi-independently of each other, and that a post about Thing X in one space does not preclude a similar post in the other.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:00 PM on July 31, 2016 [11 favorites]


Conversely, I'd love for movie trailers to be on FanFare. I often feel like there's a big overlap between movie stuff that goes on the Blue and movie stuff that gets discussed on Fanfare, and Fanfare almost always seems to lose out in terms of the amount of participation. I'd like a more interesting/robust Fanfare.
posted by TwoStride at 8:20 PM on July 31, 2016 [3 favorites]


My thought on it is similar to the desire to restrict election threads; even when viewing on a mobile device, the number of threads on the blue is nowhere near to the point that it is onerous to scroll through, so why restrict or move them around?
posted by Drumhellz at 10:44 PM on July 31, 2016


General thing I hope we can agree on: the Blue absolutely needs its fair share of fun pop culture posts. It's really good to have them in the mix with other, more serious stuff. I think we should resist the urge to have more and more pop culture moved over to FanFare. Things can get heavy on the main site, especially this year. I really welcome the FPPs about movie trailers, games, comics, new television series, and similar.
posted by naju at 10:51 PM on July 31, 2016 [15 favorites]


I've been off work for the past month (with no pay, of course, because I'm an hourly employee) thanks to the combo of a neck injury and a slow, totally uninterested HR department. I am perfectly happy with more posts on the Blue because they are the only thing keeping me from dying of boredom every day. I agree with the above comment that it is not at all difficult to get through all the posts on the Blue, and if anything I wish people would post more, more, more (I know, I should be the change I want to see). Long posts are one thing, but nothing indicates to me that the front page needs to be cleaned up. God knows I've spent enough time looking at it lately.
posted by teponaztli at 12:37 AM on August 1, 2016


Assuming that people who want to watch one set of trailers would not be phobic about spoilers in others, would a general trailers thread be reasonable?
posted by Karmakaze at 5:31 AM on August 1, 2016


General thing I hope we can agree on: the Blue absolutely needs its fair share of fun pop culture posts. It's really good to have them in the mix with other, more serious stuff. I think we should resist the urge to have more and more pop culture moved over to FanFare. Things can get heavy on the main site, especially this year. I really welcome the FPPs about movie trailers, games, comics, new television series, and similar.

I post fairly consistently on this site, that being said, sometimes I want to just post something simple. A short YouTube video usually does the trick (music video, a trailer, some kind of short comedy sketch etc). Often the blue feels too heavy with serious subject matters, and so a little light fun is needed to break that up. I try to inject that into the blue whenever I can. So I'm glad that these types of posts are still allowed.
posted by Fizz at 6:34 AM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm honestly surprised the M. Night trailer post stayed up. I'd think that the bar for "here is a movie coming out" as front page material would be somewhat highish, at least higher than the usual Shyamalan "the real twist is that he actually sucks but still has a career!" two-minute hate.

To be clear, I think trailer posts are fine as a concept, but unless the film's a pretty big deal or there's some greater social or political context or whatever around it, a movie trailer is, 80% of the time, pretty thin material for a post.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:35 AM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


Despite the snark/hate that many people seem to have for M. Night, the discussion has touched on a number of issues: dissociative identity disorder (DID), misogyny in film/culture, etc. The post itself is light, but the discussion has generated some interesting conversation.
posted by Fizz at 6:50 AM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]


I was a bit surprised at the M Night trailer post too, thinking it was very thin. But then I saw that there were 83 (at the time) comments about it. And clicking into the thread showed they were real comments with actual words, not just 83 throw away snarks or whatever. So then I figured that I was wrong and there was clearly enough of something in the post to make it worthwhile.

And I'm glad these posts stay on the front page. I disagree with the notion that anything media-oriented must be shunted off into Fanfare where I won't see it. If Fanfare can't survive without taking things traditionally posted to the front page then that's it's own problem (and it clearly can anyway), we don't need to take from the front page to try and beef it up somehow.
posted by shelleycat at 7:01 AM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, that's fair, and one of the things I like about MeFi is that the conversation will sometimes salvage the post. But it has been said before that the site is supposed to be primarily about the links themselves. I'm imagining a front page where every summer and winter comes with a deluge of movie trailers posted with no other motivation other than that the posters think those movies could turn out to be good maybe, and that's not a pleasant picture.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:15 AM on August 1, 2016


I understand the concern that the site will be flooded with flimsy posts, but that doesn't seem to be the case yet. One thread based around a movie trailer isn't a trend, and it seems a little hasty to worry about what this says for the future of the site. I'm not sure what site policy could be at this point, aside from keeping our collective eyes open if things ever seem to go south. But we can cross that bridge if we reach it. People seem to be into this particular thread for now (I don't personally have much to say, having seen exactly one of his movies), so I don't even think this one is an example of something to worry about.
posted by teponaztli at 7:52 AM on August 1, 2016


If people feel like a movie trailer post—or any post—is too thin to stay up, they can flag it for deletion. If they feel like a lot of too-thin posts are staying up, they can start a MeTa about it. The bar may be somewhat lower on FanFare given the focus of that subsite and that's fine. But scrapping all movie trailer posts on MeFi just because someone recently posted one that was maybe not notable enough to really merit it seems silly. I mean, I get that nobody is making that proposal but we should keep in mind that this MeTa is about trailer posts in general rather than any one post in particular. Right?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:01 AM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


For what its worth, I realise that this post wasn't specifically targeting me. But, I do realize that it's my recent post on M. Night that is the springboard from which this MeTa started. I jumped in here as a way of explaining my own thinking and my own point of view on the subject when it comes to posting single link youtube trailers.
posted by Fizz at 8:34 AM on August 1, 2016


I apologize if I came off as trying to make this about that one post. I did a bad job of clarifying here: My intent was not to single it out or make an argument for deletion. I intended only to use that as an example that there should be a pretty high bar for trailers to be posted to the blue in the first place, and if the site generally disagrees, then that's totally fine, but I think FanFare would then be the best home for movie trailer posts. The front page should in my opinion stick to the "you gotta see this" standard, but if trailers are an exception to that, I think FanFare is a better conceptual fit for them.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:38 AM on August 1, 2016


Yeah, I have no opinion one way or the other about the M. Night post and apologize if it seemed like I was implying otherwise. I was also just making a more general point about the direction of the MeTa. FWIW, I also agree that the criteria for what makes a good media-related post ought to be somewhat different and somewhat stricter for MeFi than for FanFare. But I don't really have any feelings about the M. Night post in particular.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:42 AM on August 1, 2016


I think maybe we could eschew posts on movie trailers altogether. Universal Pictures doesn't need our help. Let them pay to advertise here.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:21 AM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


In my opinion, the M. Night post would have been fine for the blue if it had been padded out with some extra material (other portrayals of DID in film and fiction, or if that's too risky a topic, then some other M. Night-related stuff, for example). If it's just going to be a link to a movie trailer, Fanfare does feel more appropriate to me.
Also, I'm not quite following the logic behind "we need a little light fun, here's a trailer about a psycho killer with multiple personalities who kidnaps women" ... but that said, it *has* turned into a pretty decent thread.
posted by uosuaq at 11:12 AM on August 1, 2016


My problem with that post is that it seemed to bring out the deniers of DID and I had thought Metafilter had grown to the place where we are sympathetic of all mental illness. I think a higher bar should be used for film trailers that drag in issues of mental health and I would have liked to see a lot more of that deleted. I'd prefer Fanfare to cover trailers so I can avoid having to see people mock mental illnesses.
posted by kanata at 12:24 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


In my opinion, the M. Night post would have been fine for the blue if it had been padded out with some extra material...

In my opinion, I implore you, please don't pad posts for movie trailers unless there's something actually going on with the movie. A trailer can stand on its own, you don't need to add the Wikipedia entry and the first three entertainment news hits on Google announcing the trailer.
posted by griphus at 12:25 PM on August 1, 2016 [11 favorites]


While I agree that padding a post—in the sense of adding gratuitous and uninteresting links just for the sake of boosting the link count—makes a post worse overall, I'd like to suggest that fleshing out a post with links that add context or perspective can sometimes save a post that would otherwise be too thin. It's a question mainly of the quality of those supplementary links, and the line isn't always obvious—one person's flesh is another person's padding, sometimes.

I only say this because I wouldn't want people to think that beefing up a slightly thin post is always a bad thing. You just have to ask yourself whether the beef you're adding is delicious meat or flavorless gristle.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:03 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


I enjoy Fanfare quite a bit, but I'd prefer that posts about trailers not be relegated there.

Fanfare, unlike the Blue, is not for discovery. Fanfare, for me, is only really usable because of My Fanfare, there's just too many posts about media that I don't follow for me to use the main Fanfare page. With My Fanfare (combined with the search) it's perfect for finding discussions on things that I'm already watching/reading. In theory, I could use the Clubs for discovery. In practice, Fanfare Clubs don't work for me for what I am sure are snowflakey reasons.

The Blue is for all manner of shiny new stuff, and when trailers get posted there it's a mix of interesting looking things that I might not otherwise have seen (not to pick on Fizz's post, but I definitely would have skipped the trailer for Split if it had been suggested on, say, Youtube), and nerd-joy at the coming of something that I've been waiting for but maybe not watching the release date for the trailer for.

I also can't get behind the premise that "movie trailers lead to discussions that are more consistent with FanFare than Metafilter." For one thing, when trailers get posted to the Blue, we are more likely to see input from the perspective of non-fans of whatever the work is than we are on Fanfare (there are hate-watchers on FanFare, but generally it takes more effort). Two examples from the Split post were the subdiscussions about M. Night Shyamalan's profitability, and the general sense of fatigue that some people feel with horror movies' use of the pretty damsels in distress trope.

Not that non-fans spouting pithy one-liners about whatever society says it's ok to hate about [work] really make for the best discussion*, but the smug shots about "lame twists" and "why do they give him money" in yesterday's post did lead down reasonably worthwhile paths for me.

*there is a particular one of these that makes me tug my braid and sniff and I appreciate the mod's patience with my futile flagging as derail every time I see it
posted by sparklemotion at 3:45 PM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


Clearly "padding" was a poor word choice on my part ("fleshing out" would have been much better, yes)...I would have hoped the two quick examples I gave sounded better than "tossing in a Wikipedia link and a couple random Google News items", but maybe not. Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The's comment (that was really weird to type) puts it a lot better. I definitely feel like it's fine to think "ooh, here's the new trailer for [movie] by [director I like], I should post this!" But if that's going to be the entirety of the post...partly, yes, it seems a bit thin by "Blue" standards (where I'd expect a few additional links to provide broader context for discussion), but also, now that there's FanFare, that just seems like the perfect home for it.
posted by uosuaq at 4:41 PM on August 1, 2016


now that there's FanFare, that just seems like the perfect home for it.

What is it that makes Fanfare the perfect home for discussing trailers?
posted by sparklemotion at 4:58 PM on August 1, 2016


Sometimes I question your commitment to FanFare, sparklemotion.
But seriously, my take is simply that if you're *just* going to post a link to a new show/trailer/episode/book, that seems like more of a FanFare thing, whereas the same post on the Blue can fairly be criticized as "thin" without some additional food for thought in the post itself (even if the thread turns out well). That's really all. I don't want to make a big deal out of it because it isn't a big deal.
posted by uosuaq at 5:58 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


"...whereas the same post on the Blue can fairly be criticized as "thin" without some additional food for thought in the post itself (even if the thread turns out well)."

Look, single link posts are totally fine, there's nothing specifically thin or wrong about them, though particular ones may deleted for any number of reasons.

There's absolutely no reason to try and stick movie trailer posts in Fanfare because certain people just don't like them and I'm glad that isn't going to happen.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:24 PM on August 1, 2016


I wasn't talking about single-link posts in general, only single-link posts relating to movies (or TV shows, say...i.e. the stuff FanFare is dedicated to). I hadn't really thought of FanFare as a ghetto to "stick" posts in, just a place where "so what did everyone think of Episode 12?" is sufficient by itself. On the Blue, some single-link posts are in fact judged to be "thin", and not without reason (and sometimes that's the reason they get deleted). But I'm fine with single-link movie trailers on the Blue as long as some of us can comment "nice, but would have liked to see a little more to this FPP".
posted by uosuaq at 7:04 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


You can add a link or two in the comments if you feel the post is thin.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:20 PM on August 1, 2016


I guess the difference that I see is that on Fanfare, "so what did everyone think of Episode 12" is probably getting in front of the folks who also discussed Episodes 1-11. People don't scroll through Fanfare looking for new fun 3 minute videos to watch.

For FPPs, yeah, a little more context beyond a SLTrailer could be nice. but as we've seen, SLTrailers don't necessarily make for bad posts (if we judge post quality at least partially by ensuing discussion).

But, like Fizz, I'm in favor of the occasional "thin" post -- not everything needs to be an essay. Sometimes things kind of come with their own context: Shyamalan is probably one of the few directors that most people who ever watch movies would recognize by name, there's no need to add a ton of context unless it seems like the trailer is evidence of a major departure from the general style -- like Michael Bay directing a chick flick or Meryl Streep in a sci-fi actioner.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:27 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


I feel like single-link movie trailer posts can be fine on the Blue, if there's something notable and discussion-worthy about them. That's a pretty fuzzy and subjective criterion, but that's how we roll around here.

Basically, if it would have worked on the Blue before FanFare came along, it should still be fine. If people also want to talk about it on FanFare, that's fine too. If people want to talk about something on FanFare but not on the Blue, that, too, is also fine.

I'm fine with some mission overlap between the two subsites. I know that in the past there hasn't been much overlap across MetaFilter (except with Projects, and there's a process for that) but personally I see no problem with it happening in this sort of situation.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:45 AM on August 2, 2016


I'm a big fan of Fanfare, to the point where I sometimes want to flag FPPs as doubles when they're made for movies/shows that are already in discussion on Fanfare. But I'm happy for the 'check out this new trailer' threads to stay on Mefi proper. A trailer post on Fanfare would scroll off the page before most people would even see it, and then there would be spoiler issues.

(Also, apropos of nothing, I hope the news that Channing Tatum is going to be the merman in the Splash remake isn't too thin for an FPP, because it is everything I never knew I always wanted.)
posted by oh yeah! at 8:34 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]


It'd be really cool if there was a FF Trailers section, actually. But maybe the interesting way to do that would be to have it fed by RSS and autopost the YouTube trailers. I'd check in on that compulsively to share thoughts with fellow MeFites.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:35 PM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


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