Anyone want to see my vacation slides? August 9, 2002 6:43 AM   Subscribe

On initial inspection, this post by y2karl appears to me more suited to his own weblog. For me it just doesn't seem to belong on the front page. It's long winded, with lots of "this" for the links. Yet it seems to work as well..? It seems to highlight a desire for the 'community' to exchange not only ideas and opinions but also experiences and holiday destinations....
Perhaps it's a 'bridge' of a post that signifies a new direction for MeFi?

posted by Frasermoo to Etiquette/Policy at 6:43 AM (67 comments total)

On closer inspection, I see Smart Dalek has made a MeTA ref to this as well, although with his tongue in cheek...
posted by Frasermoo at 6:47 AM on August 9, 2002


Hate it. It's just another "So," post -- you know, "I like X. So, what's your favorite X?" -- dressed up with a bunch of links to animal pictures.

Let's burn that bridge before we cross it.
posted by nicwolff at 6:56 AM on August 9, 2002


notwithstanding, 13 navaho jurisdictions engaging in the 14 point review, the committee must meet to finalize the plans for this years conference. offering gas distribution pipelines up for penance we proceed lightly toward our own confessional enemas. bird up.
posted by quonsar at 7:29 AM on August 9, 2002


what you said.
posted by Frasermoo at 7:34 AM on August 9, 2002


You know, what I really hate are these passive-aggressive vomitmasters around here who tell you to fuck off but avoid confrontation by giving you a nice little smiley face. Absolutely sick of that crap.
Y2K's post works so damn well precisely because it is different and brings a breath of fresh air. Sure it's homemade, but a lot of the good ones are agenda/hobby driven with supporting links as opposed to "Hey, I found Buttmuffins over at Buttmutations.com! Discuss". Have a nice day :-(
posted by Mack Twain at 8:00 AM on August 9, 2002


On the other hand.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:04 AM on August 9, 2002


I Still Love Him, I think this thread is odd, different, and interesting. I could see how others might not like it, and I could see this type of thing getting annoying as others try to do it, but I like this one.
posted by Blake at 8:07 AM on August 9, 2002


metafilter: passive-aggressive vomitmasters its ok to like
posted by quonsar at 8:13 AM on August 9, 2002


I was bored by the post's content. But for those who weren't, I imagine the discussion is nice.
posted by Marquis at 8:23 AM on August 9, 2002


Yeah, God forbid we should read actual, fresh human experiences, written first-hand by our fellow members, as opposed to the usual stale, repetitive, telegraphic opinion-mongering about stuff that already exists elsewhere.

Y2karls's post and the superb resulting thread actually adds something real to read - something that otherwise we'd have missed - to the sum of what already existed. In a few years time it will still be worth reading. I wonder of how much here you could say the same.

As someone who's often criticized, I can't resist a little bitching of my own: how many recent MeTa posts are basically of the "Mummy, Mummy!" variety:

"Wah, I don't like that post over there...Anyone else here not like that post over there?"

Far too many! Don't make me start a thread about this, is all I'm saying!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:26 AM on August 9, 2002


My next post:

Today I shopped at Tesco! The experience was rich and rewarding. While the shop was crowded, I bought some beans, some milk, and I also got some cashback on my debit card, and generally had a super time. What interesting things have you bought at a shop recently?

- Can you see my concern?
posted by Frasermoo at 8:40 AM on August 9, 2002


I got some fresh asparagus, some carrots, and ..... oh, wait....
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:45 AM on August 9, 2002


Well, I got some kleenex for super-cheap last week, and found out I can actually by Moxie by the case, not that I'd ever want to drink more than an ounce of the stuff at any given...

Er. I suppose you weren't REALLY asking, then.
posted by cortex at 8:46 AM on August 9, 2002


There isn't a single link in y2karl's post to something new or noteworthy on the Web. It exists only to spark a discussion.

Frankly, though, I don't think it's worth it any longer to post anything critical in MetaTalk. The growing number of people who find insult in any effort to promote long-time guidelines or community standards can have the place.

Every day Metafilter is a little more like what Miguel and others want it to be -- a LiveJournal diary for the entire world. This evolution would be an interesting experiment if it didn't require the work and money of someone who doesn't share that vision.
posted by rcade at 8:46 AM on August 9, 2002


I thought public masturbation was illegal. /snark
posted by insomnyuk at 8:48 AM on August 9, 2002


The thing is I find the post endearing.

It's like falling in love with a whore.

(without the syphillis)
posted by Frasermoo at 8:50 AM on August 9, 2002


It's also particularly unfair that y2karl should be singled out for criticism when he probably posts more original links - and works harder to make them interesting and complete - than anyone else here.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:51 AM on August 9, 2002


Stavros, the link itself wasn't so bad, but I think that first comment has killed the thread. Ugh, Haiku to the 10th power.

While we are all gathered together here, lets talk about "My Favorite..." links, because yesterday I was struck by this thread. As a voracious reader I am always interested in what others are reading. Could we have some sort of Recommended Books Thread?

I know, I know, "...that is a crappy idea/ great idea, Gravy."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:53 AM on August 9, 2002


Without criticism, him and you are dead in the water Miguel.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:53 AM on August 9, 2002


And if syphillis is wrong, let me be covered in sores.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 8:54 AM on August 9, 2002


Every day Metafilter is a little more like what Miguel and others want it to be -- a LiveJournal diary for the entire world. This evolution would be an interesting experiment if it didn't require the work and money of someone who doesn't share that vision.


Boy howdy! It is so rare that I can be in such agreement that I have to pony up and make with a rare cheerleader post. What rcade said all the way.
posted by thirteen at 9:01 AM on August 9, 2002


I'm all for boiling Miguel in oil.
posted by crunchland at 9:05 AM on August 9, 2002


All I'm gonna say is that this was all worthwhile even if the only thing that comes of it is me adding the term "passive-aggressive vomitmasters" to my vocabulary. Collect the whole set! (But I can see what rcade is getting at, even if I do think there's a middle ground to be found)
posted by biscotti at 9:16 AM on August 9, 2002


You're a jerk, crunchland. Get lost.
posted by Marquis at 9:17 AM on August 9, 2002


miguel:

Yeah, God forbid we should read actual, fresh human experiences, written first-hand by our fellow members, as opposed to the usual stale, repetitive, telegraphic opinion-mongering about stuff that already exists elsewhere.

that's what personal weblogs are for, miguel. metafilter is not the only place on the web for content, and for that reason it shouldn't be the clearinghouse for everything remotely interesting. i thought karl's post was suited for his weblog.

In a few years time [karl's thread] will still be worth reading. I wonder of how much here you could say the same.

thomas j wise had some good words on just this sentiment on the literature-as-pretention thread yesterday:

"Such predictions are dangerous. Whenever I get tempted to make them, I remember the Victorian book review I once read that said that Mrs. Humphry Ward would be remembered once the likes of George Eliot had been forgotten. All those who know who Mrs. Humphry Ward is, please raise your hands."

As someone who's often criticized, I can't resist a little bitching of my own: how many recent MeTa posts are basically of the "Mummy, Mummy!" variety ... Don't make me start a thread about this

that's ok, miguel. you can post threads like that. at least, you have in the past: three, at a glance. ("deleted threads are censorship!", "no yawning on metafilter, please!", and "my goodness, people seem to keep emailing me links to post on metafilter!") metatalk exists so that the community can talk about its own behaviors and tendancies; sometimes that takes the form of a complaint. as the point is that people discuss the issue, regardless of the outcome of that discussion, there's nothing wrong with the threads in my view.
posted by moz at 9:21 AM on August 9, 2002


Just a word of caution: remember that the human being you insult on MetaFilter today might be the human being you meet in person next week, or next month, or next year. That could make for an awkard conversation.

Kthxbye!
posted by Tin Man at 9:24 AM on August 9, 2002


Cortex....

The word Moxie is the only proper name that has made it to the dictionary as a noun synonymous with having "spunk"

You can get cases of the stuff?

..and you bought Kleenex?

Have I done some good detective work here or is it just a coincidence?
posted by Frasermoo at 9:29 AM on August 9, 2002


What I love about this place is that people can disagree without getting all sarcaustic.
posted by euphorb at 9:35 AM on August 9, 2002


I'll throw in with rcade and thirteen. I don't disagree that y2karl crafts well-conceived posts, it's just that I guess we share divergent opinions as to what constitutes an appropriate post for the site.

But here's what drives me nuts: "Mummy, mummy . . . " and "Wah wah wah" accusations. Oh, a MetaTalk post is crying to Mommy? How fucking insulting; it's circumventing actual discussion by simply implying that the very action is akin to a childish tantrum. And "wah wah" is pretty evidently code for "this person disagrees with something I did, but I can't be bothered to actually refute it."
posted by Skot at 9:40 AM on August 9, 2002


Sticks and stones, Marquis.
posted by crunchland at 9:45 AM on August 9, 2002


rcade, I don't always agree with you, but you have summed up everything that I have mourned about this place in the last year or so. y2karl's piece was nice, but it has no place here. However, if he had posted it on his own website, and someone else found it worthy enough (among all the other weblog entries out there) to post here, then maybe that would be better. (Hence the "Meta" in "MetaFilter".)

However, it doesn't matter if I agree with you. This pretty much sums it up:
A good post to MetaFilter is something that meets the following criteria: most people haven't seen it before, there is something interesting about the content on the page, and it might warrant discussion from others.
Oh, and everybody, as far as the name-calling is concerned, keep in mind that it does nothing to sway someone else's opinion, nor does it add to the debate.
posted by Avogadro at 9:45 AM on August 9, 2002


y2karl has been killing it recently, with one great post after another.

When I woke up a little while ago (I'm running again and needing more sleep than usual), I saw it and was surprised. It basically says "Here's what I did on my summer vacation, what did you do?"

which is a lame post. Even though I love the guy, I gotta cut it, especially with the new people with posting power sitting around learning from these lessons.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:54 AM on August 9, 2002


As it is y2karl who has been bagged, bound & thrown before the waiting hoard today it seems appropriate to 'quote' the man himself:

[...]

Right. Friday. 5 to 6. Pub.
posted by i_cola at 9:56 AM on August 9, 2002


Darn it. Just when I was raking in the traffic for my squirrel porn photos.
posted by brownpau at 9:59 AM on August 9, 2002


That's a clincher, Avogadro, seriously. I'd have emphasized the condition "most people haven't seen it before", though. It follows that some people have seen it before and so that pretty much nixes posts which mostly consist of freshly written material.

I interpret it to mean "sharing something interesting but still little-known, that deserves wider attention." Y2karl's post does fail this test and this would explain why it would be OK for someone else to link to it - as it was already out there. I still like it, though. But I reluctantly agree it goes against the guidelines.

If y2karl had been less interestingly sincere and found good links about urban wildlife (if they're there, he'd find them) and then added his own experience as a comment, I take it it would make an acceptable post?

(The "something interesting about the content on the page" is more open to subjective interpretation.)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:59 AM on August 9, 2002


Just a word of caution: remember that the human being you insult on MetaFilter today might be the human being you meet in person next week, or next month, or next year. That could make for an awkard conversation.

You want awkward? I've met two people that I've banned before. Talk about your painful conversations.

"hi, I'm Foo"
"hi Foo, I'm Matt"
"yeah, I know you, I'm a member of metafilter"
"oh really? what's your username"
"Footastic2002"
"that kind of rings a bell..."
"you banned me"
"oh?"
"yeah"
"hmm. yep, well. hmm. How 'bout those Mets?"
<painful silence>
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:00 AM on August 9, 2002


I'm personally disappointed the thread was pulled...without it, I'd have had no idea you could rent canoes from U-Dub to cruise around lake washington. Thank goodness I'd bookmarked that link before the post went away...
posted by nomisxid at 10:01 AM on August 9, 2002


brownpau: you seem to have some competition.
posted by adampsyche at 10:02 AM on August 9, 2002


I love the guy, [but] I gotta cut it, especially with the new people with posting power sitting around learning from these lessons.
posted by mathowie at 9:54 AM PST on August 9


*Puts away pictures of niece and nephews, erases draft of front page post.*
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 10:04 AM on August 9, 2002


sigh. i understand matts reasoning, but i'd have been a prolific contributor to that post had i not been stuck here at work, away from my large collection of outdoors / scenery / flora / fauna images taken while two-tracking, most of which i have yet to put online. oh well, back to offering up gas distribution pipelines for penance as i stride lightly toward my own confessional enema. bird up, all.

posted by quonsar at 10:13 AM on August 9, 2002


Dammit, I forgot to save the thread. But I seem to remember Summer posted a fascinating link to crows' intelligence there, which mediareport noted ("If no one else posts this, I'm posting it to the front page" or similar words) worked into his excellent post on animal intelligence. So that would be another good thing that came out of y2karl's post.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:22 AM on August 9, 2002


I love the guy, [but] I gotta cut it, especially with the new people with posting power sitting around learning from these lessons.

Still, sort of a shame - when I came by there were already about 20 comments. How many posts that aren't about US politics pull in twenty comments that fast?


posted by slipperywhenwet at 10:25 AM on August 9, 2002


Q: How many posts that aren't about US politics pull in twenty comments that fast?

A: Any post that ends with "what's your favourite/best/secret [blank]?"

Not a benchmark for quality.
posted by Marquis at 10:37 AM on August 9, 2002


Would it be possible to see some sort of example of what was in y2karl's post? I didn't get the chance to see it before it was removed, and I'm wondering what the post unsuitable for MetaFilter actually WAS. Just so I don't end up accidentally posting something similar along the way.
posted by twos at 10:47 AM on August 9, 2002


Oh, well--it was a shot in the dark, an experiment. I did think about doing the full on multilink production but was just too lazy. I can see why it got pulled & all but I did find the commentary interesting. Anyway, if anyone local wants tips on where to go when you rent a canoe there, drop me a line. And rent one this week--you can still stay out until 8:30 PM. That eagle I saw was sitting in a cottonwood tree in Laurelhurst, about a mile or more from the WAC. I could see it there in the tree still, a little white dot, when we got back. So, I'm not totally blind yet.
Interestingly sincere... Tee hee. I should hope so.

And like I have a weblog... jeez, then I'd have to come up with interesting stuff all the time. What a drag.
posted by y2karl at 10:49 AM on August 9, 2002


What rcade said. Have people here really never heard of a "web log"? You know..... a personal site? I can see what y2karl was going for. But this is a web log post. Plain and simple.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:59 AM on August 9, 2002


twos: Another good reason to sometimes use the lo-fidelity version of Metafilter - besides disguising what site you're reading - is that on lofi the deleted posts are still visible (although, obviously, any comments that were made to them before they were deleted are not there). This comes in handy when you want to see just what a deleted post was, for just such a reason as you mention.
posted by yhbc at 11:02 AM on August 9, 2002


twos--old posts linger here for awhile. Never cut and paste from Word without putting it inot notepad and fixing what needs to be fixed... I was lazy.
posted by y2karl at 11:02 AM on August 9, 2002


Great minds ...
posted by yhbc at 11:06 AM on August 9, 2002


This is a tough one, admittedly the post goes against the guidelines and probably shouldn't be encouraged.

Nonetheless, I have to confess to participating and enjoying it as much (or more) as more 'correct' ones. Though not the greatest concept for a front page post it encouraged an increasingly rare civil discussion and unearthed a few gems in the process.
posted by cedar at 11:13 AM on August 9, 2002


it encouraged an increasingly rare civil discussion

This actually was intended...
posted by y2karl at 11:15 AM on August 9, 2002


Oh, for crying out loud -- the post made me click its first link to find out what it was about, which turned out to be a local facility of no use or interest to me. Then it made me mouse over nine links to find out whether or not there was maybe some interesting Web content about birds being linked to, which there wasn't. It was a bad post from a normally-excellent user.

I'm trying to waste time at work in an entertaining fashion, and y2karl isn't helping!

Also, whose name is honey in the mouth of he who says it sounds faintly Koranic, like a translation from the Arabic. Un-American, anyway. I've reported him to my mailman.
posted by nicwolff at 11:20 AM on August 9, 2002


Also, "whose name is honey in the mouth of he who says it" sounds faintly Koranic

Sounds to me like he knows his gf reads Metafilter. :-)
?
posted by sennoma at 11:31 AM on August 9, 2002


nicwolff: sounded like something from the Song of Solomon to me.
posted by slipperywhenwet at 11:31 AM on August 9, 2002


She doesn't. The Book Of The New Sun, actually. But, Song of Solomon, no doubt, by extension.
posted by y2karl at 12:23 PM on August 9, 2002


It's also particularly unfair that y2karl should be singled out for criticism when he probably posts more original links

Criticism of post != Criticism of person.

We all understand this, right? Because sometimes I wonder.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:43 PM on August 9, 2002


There are tons of places where this post would be appropriate, metafilter does not have to be all things to all people.

You want witty personnel discussion, go somewhere else.
posted by Mick at 1:27 PM on August 9, 2002


Yes, if you want personnel discussion, come here
posted by Summer at 2:01 PM on August 9, 2002


Criticism of post != Criticism of person.
We all understand this, right? Because sometimes I wonder.


As do I, my friend, as do I.
posted by rushmc at 2:33 PM on August 9, 2002


*applauds y2karl's quoting of Gene Wolfe*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:37 PM on August 9, 2002


Criticism of post != Criticism of person.

We all understand this, right? Because sometimes I wonder.


Seriously. Not to mention criticism of post != criticism of previous posts by the same person.
posted by toddshot at 7:47 PM on August 9, 2002


Oh yeah... people don't criticise people here on Metafilter. It never gets personal. It's about what they write, not who they are.

Just ask ParisParamus.
posted by crunchland at 8:30 PM on August 9, 2002


...or, come to think of it, Miguel.

for the record, my call to boil Miguel in oil was facetious and sarcastic, though apparently too subtle. I mostly just liked the alliteration of the phrase.
posted by crunchland at 10:51 PM on August 9, 2002


Mmm... Oily Miguel...
posted by y2karl at 11:10 PM on August 9, 2002


I took the boil in oil remark as amusing not aggressive.

I was going to follow with 'Olive him alone'. But I knew I'd end up saying.....

....I'll get me cloak.
posted by Frasermoo at 3:09 AM on August 10, 2002


heh, summer. my thoughts exactly.
posted by mlang at 8:27 AM on August 10, 2002


"If y2karl had been less interestingly sincere and found good links about urban wildlife (if they're there, he'd find them) and then added his own experience as a comment, I take it it would make an acceptable post?"

Well -- yes. From the sidebar:

"MetaFilter is a community of users that find and discuss things on the web."

Please note that that's "find [...] things on the web," not "find things at your local Waterfront Activities Center."

What's hard about this?
posted by webmutant at 10:48 AM on August 10, 2002


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