Help a Newbie!

September 24, 2002 7:30 AM

I'm new to Metafilter, at least as a poster anyway, and I have been less than satisfied with the quality of my comments, especially my front page post. I think my dissatisfaction comes from my lack of experience in posting to a forum that has such a high expectation for quality. This tends to create a bit of hesitation in my posting, which results in over editing and an extremely stiff writing style. Of course the best way to overcome that, is by commenting frequently in order to become more comfortable and fluid in my comments and post. The downside to that, of course, is the possibility of tripping all over myself, in an otherwise quality message thread. This is very frustrating to me, because I see the type of poster I want to become, and I'm not sure how to get from here to there.

Making matters more difficult is my lack of computer knowledge. As an example, I love the option of renaming a url, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to edit multiple urls into a single paragraph.

If anyone has any helpful hints on how to gain experience as a front page poster, without making a mess of things in the process, I'd love to hear them. I've also sniffed around the web looking for a handy guide to url editing, and I've not had any luck, so if anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

posted by Beholder to MetaFilter-Related at 7:30 AM (33 comments total)

The view source option available in just about any browser is the best teacher I've had.

Me:"I wonder how they did that?"

*Views source*

"OOOOH-ooooh. I bet I could do that."
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:43 AM on September 24, 2002

For putting multiple links in a paragraph, you're best off just learning how to write basic html, it wont take you more than 15 minutes to learn how to do it. Here's a start:

1. Take this (copy and paste if you like):
<a href="http://www.metalfilter.com/">Link Title</a>

2. Make sure you don't put an line breaks/enters in the middle.

3. Replace http://www.metafilter.com/ with the new url.

4. Replace Link Title with whatever you want the link to say.

5. Repeat as many times as you want for the paragraph.

Hope that helps.
posted by malphigian at 7:47 AM on September 24, 2002

And with regards to "HTML for complete non-techies", webmonkey's html cheat-sheet was and continues to be a big help to me. Bookmark it!
posted by yhbc at 7:50 AM on September 24, 2002

I think your notion of commenting more at first is good. Commenting instead of FPP-ing is a great way to get into the swing of things.

For my FPPs, I usually have two browser windows open. One to MeFi and one to google where I'm searching for the appropriate links. I usually have Notepad or Textpad open as well for holding my urls as I compose. Sometimes I compose in Textpad, sometimes in the compose window in MeFi or MeTa- it depends on the length of the post.

Also- while malphigian's comments are great- you can do the same thing with the blue link button in the bottom right corner of the composition field, of course. Copy the appropriate url to your clipboard, highlight the text you want linked, click the link shortcut, and paste in your url from your clipboard.
posted by gen at 7:50 AM on September 24, 2002

Beholder: never relax your sphincter; make triple-sure of everything; google things directly rather than look through the usual places; make posts that spring directly from your personal experience and knowledge; be honest; try not to breath; admit to mistakes immediately; be friendly; don't bother with trolls or snarks; ask for help when befuddled; mercilessly e-mail users you trust; remember readers outnumber posters by a large factor; never lie or fake it; never, ever think to yourself "it's only a website"; defend what you think is right and...not that it's possible in the beginning...endeavour to enjoy yourself as much as you enjoy others.

That's about it. Your post indicates you'll do fine, btw! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:07 AM on September 24, 2002

a bit of hesitation in my posting, which results in over editing and an extremely stiff writing style

I've found myself prone to a bit of perfomance anxiety too, suddenly deleting entire comments or nipping them down to a few words, thinking 'You stupidhead, stop posting rubbish.' Half of me thinks this is because i like mr. metafilter and don't want him fed on a diet of crap (perhaps a little bit of crazy crap, á la neu now and then), but half of me thinks I'm going peculiar. Perhaps both.
posted by robself at 8:10 AM on September 24, 2002

Beholder:

thread text is sort of a black magic for me. i used to comment some in my postings. lately i seem to compose my thread text mainly of quotations from the page that i am posting. maybe the best way to practice is simply to write a post as though no one had ever heard of what it is you are linking. in the future you can vary on that until you're pretty satisfied with what you're doing.

commenting doesn't really help me when i post a link. when i comment, i'm just being me. i write sort of conversationally, without paying much mind to grammar or capitalization. i think of mefi commenting as a time when you are allowed to use big words in a regular conversation, which is the main difference for me really. (or: how often do you have conversations about anthropology and linear-time algorithmic complexity in real life?)

nor do i think commenting is necessarily a good way to get experience before posting a link. commenting and reading comments might help you understand what people expect in a thread, but don't pay much attention to that. post what you like and you think they may like. if you post what they expect, you'll end up posting only 1) flash animation, 2) current events, and 3) interesting technology news.
posted by moz at 8:36 AM on September 24, 2002

Don't post huge paragraphs on MetaTalk, whatever you do.
posted by ColdChef at 8:42 AM on September 24, 2002

Good comments above, to which I can only add that getting swatted on Mefi is inevitable. It is part of the Metafilter experience, and no matter how you try it WILL happen. Doesn't mean you are a horrible linker or poster, just means in a site this large there will always be someone (or several someones) who feel snarky that day.

Of course there are plenty of posters who hasten the day by their sloppy metafilter manners or other issues.

Didn't you pick up your complementary thick skin when you signed up?
posted by konolia at 8:45 AM on September 24, 2002

"What's a bookmark?"


posted by mischief at 8:55 AM on September 24, 2002

"What's a Favorites?"
posted by gen at 9:08 AM on September 24, 2002

This tends to create a bit of hesitation in my posting, which results in over editing and an extremely stiff writing style ... The downside to that, of course, is the possibility of tripping all over myself, in an otherwise quality message thread. This is very frustrating to me, because I see the type of poster I want to become, and I'm not sure how to get from here to there.

Beholder, fwiw, my advice regarding writing style is: relax. We ain't curing cancer here, and the front page is never going to be dipped in bronze and hung on a wall at the Smithsonian. Judging by this post, you already have an adequate grasp of the language. Now just go find something interesting to talk about, and you'll be fine.
posted by pardonyou? at 9:23 AM on September 24, 2002

We ain't curing cancer here...
We're not? My mistake.
*Pours cancer cure down the sink*
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:28 AM on September 24, 2002

complete aside

it is too bad that mathowie strips the style attributes out of HTML elements and disallows things like SPANs, Ps and DIVs. responsible users could use things like height and overflow in the style and minimize lengthy posts that way.
posted by internook at 10:41 AM on September 24, 2002

If anyone has any helpful hints on how to gain experience as a front page poster

If you have a topic that could be taken personal, politics, religion & so on, you may want to look around the Front Page first to see how things are for the day. Nothing like posting something when next door a flame war breaks out, then the overflow ignites onto your thread to burn it too. Though you may had been posting with good intentions, yet perception while reading is sometimes difficult. As there is no voice influx to figure out your true statement if it seems, iffy. I know it happened to me.
posted by thomcatspike at 11:19 AM on September 24, 2002

Don't post huge paragraphs on MetaTalk, whatever you do.

Or, Beholder, cut yourself off and use the two magic words: "[more inside]". That way, anyone interested can follow and those who don't don't get hit with huge blocks of text on the front page.

Btw, I'd say the first thing to do in your front page posts is find more interesting links than, say, a link to the official page announcing the start of a new Buffy season. One of the guidelines is "most people haven't seen it before," remember?
posted by mediareport at 11:55 AM on September 24, 2002

It was my frustration with the Buffy post that prompted me to ask for advice here in Metatalk. I'd approach that post completely different now. I want to thank everyone for their valuable input, and hopefully I can put some of what I read here today to good use in the future.


posted by Beholder at 12:26 PM on September 24, 2002

(off topic)
mediareport: in reference to the Cambodian women in california. I retrieved some old files and found the article.

it was in the New Yorker. 'A Changed Vision Of God' by Alec Wilkinson. I do not have the issue number though.
thanks again for the link.

i have little or no advice for Beholder but some kudos. follow the advice given. If you have contact with another MeFi Vet, perhaps if your in doubt, run it (the link) by them.
posted by clavdivs at 12:35 PM on September 24, 2002

it is too bad that mathowie strips the style attributes out of HTML elements and disallows things like SPANs, Ps and DIVs. responsible users could use things like height and overflow in the style and minimize lengthy posts that way.

Given the frequency users mangle things like anchor and italic elements, I would fear for the quality of cross-browser, cross-platform js/css content that some would post.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:53 PM on September 24, 2002

I wish I'd made this MetaTalk post before I posted my first FPP. Sometimes I think I must hold some sort of record for "repost/bad post" to "post that was kept" ratio.

The best advice I can give you is to do as much research as possible on a topic before you post it. Google it and spend some time reading links, and you're likely to improve said post by leaps and bounds.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 1:37 PM on September 24, 2002

very good point mathowie. as usual I am humbled by your wisdom.
posted by internook at 1:52 PM on September 24, 2002

Beholder, I suspect you've made some friends by asking for advice before jumping right into the fray. There is something to be said for damning the torpedoes and all that, but usually the people who do it do it for the wrong reasons (laziness, ambivalence) rather than the right ones (informality, confidence). I mean, just the fact that you care enough to recognize community standards indicates, as others have noted, that you probably aren't apt to ruin the joint anyway.

As for the advice itself, I'm not expert enough to really give it, but what I can say is that if you give a coherent, interesting argument, then the technical merit of the writing itself is just an accessory that I, personally, can take or leave. I don't worry too much about it in my own comments--though more than I probably should if I took my own advice--and beyond a basic respect for the english language, I certainly don't expect anyone else to be anal about it. Weblog as conversation, not thesis abstract.

Other things: Don't be the first person to post in a thread if all you've got to say is something brief and sarcastic. Make better use of the "preview" button than I do, but don't go crazy. Don't post unless you're saying something new, or at the very least adding something new to something already established.

about front page posts, well.. I've only made 11 of them myself, but I know what I like. One "main" link, and a just few links that provide background information. A total of maybe 2-4 lines. Keep personal opinion out of it if possible. Certainly eschew politically loaded statements. Link to something interesting, not just what's on CNN's ticker at the time. That's just my taste, though. There are probably as many examples of great posts that break these rules (and others). Basically, you should know if your post is good and necessary by looking at it.

[/stentorian tone]
posted by Hildago at 2:14 PM on September 24, 2002

"...high expectation for quality..."

You gotta quit worrying about the people who expect more from this forum than it perhaps deserves.
You are not gonna please everyone all the time.
Just get out there and post.
People will be more than happy to tell you when you screw up.
Let THEM worry about it.
Just contribute. If you look like an idiot, join the club.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:23 PM on September 24, 2002

and when you are comfortable with commenting and ready to post a new topic, don't look for it. the best posts are ones you stumble across, not found in the daily paper or on someone else's blog.
posted by DBAPaul at 3:08 PM on September 24, 2002

Selfish Sidetrack

While we are on Beholder's wise question, and since I don't want to start a new Metatalk thread and push it off the front page, I have another "self link" question.

To summarize: I have been writing about donating bone marrow at a site. In doing so, I have discovered some interesting links about bone marrow donation that I think would be of interest to the community. Also, I am hoping to hear stories from MeFiers who have either donated or received bone marrow. Of course, it wouldn't hurt the world if a few people read it and registered their bone marrow... Anyhow, I do not intend to link myself at all, however I am concerned that this could be perceived as a self link since I am writing about this same subject elsewhere.

What do y'all think? The url is www.marrow.org. Am I obsessing too much about self-linking? (thank you, Beholder, for allowing me some time in your topic)

/selfish sidetrack
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:34 PM on September 24, 2002

Joey: I think it would be interesting and possibly a good thread. However, discussion inside the thread should be left to develop organically. Don't ask any questions in your post. Just point to the links in an interesting way (maybe use an interesting statisic or quote to draw the reader in) and then sit back and wait for comments. Inside the thread it is permissible to not only tell a little more of your personal story, and to self-link (though I wouldn't do it in the first comment).

There may be no comments, or very few. That does not mean it is a bad post. It may just mean that few people have anything to add. It's all about the links, y'know.
posted by acridrabbit at 6:48 PM on September 24, 2002

I think the spirit of the rule against self-linking is to keep people from making posts in order to get traffic to their site. Doesn't sound like that's what you're [thinking of] doing, so you won't hear me bitching about it.
posted by Hildago at 11:07 PM on September 24, 2002

yhbc, I had forgotten about that cheat sheet - thanks.

The self-linking thing is a bit of a tightrope at times - I recently posted something from another MeFi member's site that I thought many would find interesting (iconomy's continuing story), even though I had contributed to the story myself. I agonised a bit and then thought "what the hell" and posted it. Very few commented, but many more contributed to the story and it was interesting that those that contributed to the story did not comment.

My point being that, even though not many people may comment on a thread, there are bound to be many more who simply enjoyed the link and moved on. Remember - it's all about the link.

posted by dg at 12:39 AM on September 25, 2002

I am concerned that this could be perceived as a self link since I am writing about this same subject elsewhere.

Joey, if that was a hard-and-fast rule no-one who has written anything elsewhere would ever post to MeFi. There's hardly a whiff of self-linkage in what you propose. Go for it.

discussion inside the thread should be left to develop organically. Don't ask any questions in your post.

Aren't you forgetting, acridrabbit, that the whole 'What do you think of X?' question-at-end-of-post trick was what Matt himself once credited with taking MeFi to the next level of user engagement and growth as a community, back in the day? Sure, it's out of fashion now because it's been overused and abused, but there are still occasions when it can be appropriate.
posted by rory at 4:23 AM on September 25, 2002

Rory: I thought Matt hated that kind of thing. I know for sure that he's against turning this place into a more inane kind of "discussion board" with "what kind of pancakes do you like" kinds of posts. I'd love to read the original comment you're referring to. Maybe I'll run a quick search and see if I can find it...
posted by acridrabbit at 7:39 AM on September 25, 2002

I hope I'm not getting my wires crossed, but I seem to recall reading an interview where Matt spoke about how his own posting style changed in the early years... can't remember where now; it could have been Derek Powazek's book. Note that I'm not talking about 'What's your favourite flavour of ice-cream?'-style posts, just the Fray-style posts that ask the audience a question at the end to draw them in.
posted by rory at 7:58 AM on September 25, 2002

the best posts are ones you stumble across, not found in the daily paper or on someone else's blog.

i don't agree. i've found a lot of really good links on other people's blogs -- links that don't get around. you can stumble over some really good links on others' blogs.
posted by moz at 8:18 AM on September 25, 2002

Thanks for the feedback. I will post a short FPP about this once my last FPP cycles off...
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:49 PM on September 25, 2002