[MeFi Site Update] September 18th September 18, 2024 9:12 AM Subscribe
Hi there!
Welcome to this month’s Site Update!
You can find the last update here.
Profit & Loss
– You can find this month's Profit & Loss report here. The previous reports are here.
Admin
– I’m working with the mods to make adjustments to the Guidelines and Content Policy based on the feedback from this thread. Our aim is to have clearer policies that allow us to step in and avoid derails and comments aimed at enraging other members and where we can set clear expectations with the members who get moderated.
Fundraising
– So far, we have raised $5,281.00 in one time contributions (17% of our original goal) and $200.00 in new Subscriptions (8% of our goal). We still have a lot of money in the bank, so while this is not where we wanted to be, there is no imminent emergency.
On one hand I’m deeply grateful for the contributions received so far and we’ll make the best of it but on the other I know the frustration this generates.
We were hoping to have the new entity in place before the fundraising started this year. Since last year’s run, we knew we would not be able to spin a full fledged campaign while rebuilding the site; moderation has been busier than usual in the past few months. That being said, we decided to move ahead with the fundraising and do our best.
I’m still running to continue with the activities we had planned and we’ll keep going with the fundraising activities until we’re ready to give access to the new site for testing (more details on that below). Then, we’ll put copies of the Pet Tax wall and Cookbook for sale and proceed with the Podcast.
Tech
– Early access to the new site has been delayed in order to include more complete features and actions that users can test and kirkaracha and I are expecting to make it available by Sunday, September 29.
– Added affiliate links to bookshop.org
– Fixed multiple errors connecting to external APIs
– Server fixes keeping maintenance tasks running without breaking
BIPOC Advisory Board
– Thyme and I will resume our work with the BIPOC Board this month. Next meeting is scheduled for September 21st. Once the meeting happens we’ll report back on our plan to get back on track with the minutes and the cadence of the work with the BIPOC Board.
If you have any questions or feedback not related to this particular update, please Contact Us instead. If you want to discuss a particular subject not covered here with the community, you’re welcome to open a separate MetaTalk
Welcome to this month’s Site Update!
You can find the last update here.
Profit & Loss
– You can find this month's Profit & Loss report here. The previous reports are here.
Admin
– I’m working with the mods to make adjustments to the Guidelines and Content Policy based on the feedback from this thread. Our aim is to have clearer policies that allow us to step in and avoid derails and comments aimed at enraging other members and where we can set clear expectations with the members who get moderated.
Fundraising
– So far, we have raised $5,281.00 in one time contributions (17% of our original goal) and $200.00 in new Subscriptions (8% of our goal). We still have a lot of money in the bank, so while this is not where we wanted to be, there is no imminent emergency.
On one hand I’m deeply grateful for the contributions received so far and we’ll make the best of it but on the other I know the frustration this generates.
We were hoping to have the new entity in place before the fundraising started this year. Since last year’s run, we knew we would not be able to spin a full fledged campaign while rebuilding the site; moderation has been busier than usual in the past few months. That being said, we decided to move ahead with the fundraising and do our best.
I’m still running to continue with the activities we had planned and we’ll keep going with the fundraising activities until we’re ready to give access to the new site for testing (more details on that below). Then, we’ll put copies of the Pet Tax wall and Cookbook for sale and proceed with the Podcast.
Tech
– Early access to the new site has been delayed in order to include more complete features and actions that users can test and kirkaracha and I are expecting to make it available by Sunday, September 29.
– Added affiliate links to bookshop.org
– Fixed multiple errors connecting to external APIs
– Server fixes keeping maintenance tasks running without breaking
BIPOC Advisory Board
– Thyme and I will resume our work with the BIPOC Board this month. Next meeting is scheduled for September 21st. Once the meeting happens we’ll report back on our plan to get back on track with the minutes and the cadence of the work with the BIPOC Board.
If you have any questions or feedback not related to this particular update, please Contact Us instead. If you want to discuss a particular subject not covered here with the community, you’re welcome to open a separate MetaTalk
About derails -- I see a lot of inconsistency in whether they are reined in or not. Sometimes they take over a thread, but even when flagged, there is no response. I think moderation in general is often inconsistent.
posted by NotLost at 9:41 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 9:41 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
comments aimed at enraging other members
I have a really low opinion of some other members (a mutual feeling in some cases I'm sure), but I don't think even the fightiest people here are deliberately seeking to enrage people. Is it admin's position that are significant numbers of intentional trolls present?
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:20 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
I have a really low opinion of some other members (a mutual feeling in some cases I'm sure), but I don't think even the fightiest people here are deliberately seeking to enrage people. Is it admin's position that are significant numbers of intentional trolls present?
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:20 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
What thread?
– This thread (edited the post to add the link).
Where can the members go to see how much money has been raised so far? Or is the answer that someone has to ask the staff and then the staff will respond at some point in the future?
I'm afraid we don't have an easy way to make that data available real time, that's why we decided to include fundraising updates in these site updates.
I think moderation in general is often inconsistent.
I've been thinking particularly about this since the thread linked above. I've worked with content moderation since 2006 and every site/service/company has different approaches. From past experience, places where the moderation is based on a set of clear rules that are enforced systematically with no room for interpretation end up (by design) being a particularly hostile place for members where the focus in on the enforcement without really looking into the context behind the decisions taken.
I think MeFi has historically had a very contextual and case-by-case basis approach to moderation that comes with great advantages but at the same time will make consistency harder. Then this is exacerbated by other factors like mod gaps (the actions you take with an abusive comment just posted may be different of the actions you will take for a comment posted 3 hours ago), lack of clarity about the actions take in the background, etc.
So, currently, our goal is to rethink the guidelines in a way where more contextual and human moderation is still possible and expectations are clearer for users, where the actions that will be taken are not a surprise and where mods have a clear path to act.
Is it admin's position that are significant numbers of intentional trolls present?
No, if anything, I personally think in most cases people have disagreements on certain topics and sometimes that doesn't go well. But sometimes these disputes escalate quickly and end up in just a few people trowing personal attacks and drive by comments aimed to enrage others.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:29 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
– This thread (edited the post to add the link).
Where can the members go to see how much money has been raised so far? Or is the answer that someone has to ask the staff and then the staff will respond at some point in the future?
I'm afraid we don't have an easy way to make that data available real time, that's why we decided to include fundraising updates in these site updates.
I think moderation in general is often inconsistent.
I've been thinking particularly about this since the thread linked above. I've worked with content moderation since 2006 and every site/service/company has different approaches. From past experience, places where the moderation is based on a set of clear rules that are enforced systematically with no room for interpretation end up (by design) being a particularly hostile place for members where the focus in on the enforcement without really looking into the context behind the decisions taken.
I think MeFi has historically had a very contextual and case-by-case basis approach to moderation that comes with great advantages but at the same time will make consistency harder. Then this is exacerbated by other factors like mod gaps (the actions you take with an abusive comment just posted may be different of the actions you will take for a comment posted 3 hours ago), lack of clarity about the actions take in the background, etc.
So, currently, our goal is to rethink the guidelines in a way where more contextual and human moderation is still possible and expectations are clearer for users, where the actions that will be taken are not a surprise and where mods have a clear path to act.
Is it admin's position that are significant numbers of intentional trolls present?
No, if anything, I personally think in most cases people have disagreements on certain topics and sometimes that doesn't go well. But sometimes these disputes escalate quickly and end up in just a few people trowing personal attacks and drive by comments aimed to enrage others.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:29 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
I'm afraid we don't have an easy way to make that data available real time, that's why we decided to include fundraising updates in these site updates.
Nobody said it had to be real time. Daily or every other day would be great. Weekly would be acceptable. Graphical displays are not a must, plain text will do. This is not something that should take many minutes.
But then again all this was said during the previous fundraiser too.
posted by trig at 10:44 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
Nobody said it had to be real time. Daily or every other day would be great. Weekly would be acceptable. Graphical displays are not a must, plain text will do. This is not something that should take many minutes.
But then again all this was said during the previous fundraiser too.
posted by trig at 10:44 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
I never said anything about real time fundaising updates. I said that a "somewhat regular fundraising total" update didn't seem like a tall ask during a fundraiser.
I also can't find where the staff decided to post fundrasing total updates in site update posts instead of fundraising update posts. Monthly fundraising total updates in a thread that's not dedicated to the ongoing fundraiser seems like a weird choice.
posted by Diskeater at 10:58 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]
I also can't find where the staff decided to post fundrasing total updates in site update posts instead of fundraising update posts. Monthly fundraising total updates in a thread that's not dedicated to the ongoing fundraiser seems like a weird choice.
posted by Diskeater at 10:58 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]
This is not something that should take many minutes.
That's part of the issue, one would hope that is the case, but our stripe and PayPal instances are set up in ways that aren't great for getting accurate data. This is in fact, part of the reason why the wrap up of the 2022 fundraising was posted until the end of Jan 2023.
At this point, I'd consider using some of the Member Contribution Budget we have allocated since in June (that we have not used so far) to get help reconfiguring and optimizing our payment gateways so that we can get data on recurring revenue and tell apart sign-ups from member contributions faster. I don't doubt that things were set up in a way that made sense back when they were set up, but it's an different story today.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:02 PM on September 18
That's part of the issue, one would hope that is the case, but our stripe and PayPal instances are set up in ways that aren't great for getting accurate data. This is in fact, part of the reason why the wrap up of the 2022 fundraising was posted until the end of Jan 2023.
At this point, I'd consider using some of the Member Contribution Budget we have allocated since in June (that we have not used so far) to get help reconfiguring and optimizing our payment gateways so that we can get data on recurring revenue and tell apart sign-ups from member contributions faster. I don't doubt that things were set up in a way that made sense back when they were set up, but it's an different story today.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:02 PM on September 18
Listen, sometimes you do the best with what you have. "We're up to $X in one-time contributions, $Y in subscriptions, and $Z in not-yet-classified donations." That's the minimum of what you do if you care about being transparent and responsive and not killing goodwill.
If you can't even do that, you set expectations up front. "Hey guys, there's going to be a fundraiser but for some inexplicable reason we won't know how much money is coming in until next month so we'll all be flying totally blind." (Incidentally, I don't remember this being an issue with fundraisers run by previous managers. Nobody was super regular with updates, but somehow they managed to make updates.)
I've gotta stop making these comments, all of this was already said again and again last time around and it's like the ABCs of any project.
posted by trig at 12:32 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]
If you can't even do that, you set expectations up front. "Hey guys, there's going to be a fundraiser but for some inexplicable reason we won't know how much money is coming in until next month so we'll all be flying totally blind." (Incidentally, I don't remember this being an issue with fundraisers run by previous managers. Nobody was super regular with updates, but somehow they managed to make updates.)
I've gotta stop making these comments, all of this was already said again and again last time around and it's like the ABCs of any project.
posted by trig at 12:32 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]
Or at least respond to the question and say "We don't have that data" in less than 4 days.
posted by bowbeacon at 1:56 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]
posted by bowbeacon at 1:56 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]
So far, we have raised $5,281.00 in one time contributions (17% of our original goal) and $200.00 in new Subscriptions (8% of our goal). We still have a lot of money in the bank, so while this is not where we wanted to be, there is no imminent emergency.
I think the writing is on the wall.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:33 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
I think the writing is on the wall.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:33 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
I'm very grateful for all the hard work that goes into running this place. I really like it here.
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:32 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:32 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]
It's awesome to hear that the new site will be (hopefully) open to the beta testers on the 29th.
I don't really understand the grousing about fundraising progress reports. I guess knowing where we are might help build a sense of momentum, but how's about everybody just gives what they think the site is worth to them/what they can afford and then we see what the final number is?
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:19 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]
I don't really understand the grousing about fundraising progress reports. I guess knowing where we are might help build a sense of momentum, but how's about everybody just gives what they think the site is worth to them/what they can afford and then we see what the final number is?
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:19 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]
Yeeesh, as someone who almost never comes to MetaTalk, the complaints about the fundraising updates strike me as really harsh towards someone who is clearly doing their best with limited resources. I think the updates that have been given are fine.
posted by mekily at 8:24 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]
posted by mekily at 8:24 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]
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In the Fundraiser kickoff thread you posted a comment that said there would be a new banner "at least once per week". What happened to that?
This comment on September 9th asked how the fundraiser was going. Your response said that a fundraising update would be covered by the monthly site update post. Any reason why it took nine days to get a total?
Maybe this is unfair but from where I'm sitting, posting one banner update a week as well as a somewhat regular fundraising total doesn't seem like a massive effort. The 2022 crouton scale was an odd way to do that but it was something. Where can the members go to see how much money has been raised so far? Or is the answer that someone has to ask the staff and then the staff will respond at some point in the future?
posted by Diskeater at 9:39 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]