Seeking global perspectives from the community November 13, 2024 4:10 PM Subscribe
Hi all, this is a message from MetaFilter’s BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, People of Color) board.
In the interest of highlighting and growing the global perspective here on our little corner of the web, we want to encourage BIPOC members to post a bit more to the site.
So we’re going to use this second week of November to encourage members who don’t consider themselves Western world natives (Diasporic BIPOC welcome here) to make a post or two about their culture.
To that end, we have a few suggestions/themes, but no one has to feel bound to use them, they’re merely suggestions:
How does your culture use rice cookers?
What is one thing about your culture that people have misconceptions about or have stigmas within Western cultural perceptions?
How does your country or culture view/treat cats (past and present)?
What’s a particular food item that is popular in your culture and what are some of the popular variants?
The posts don’t have to be long or filled with links, but it’s ok if they are! Single link posts are absolutely fine on MetaFilter and have a long history on the site.
We’re doing this as a way to showcase the width and breadth of MetaFilter’s global community. No other community is forbidden or discouraged from posting during this event, we merely ask other communities to highlight or share their culture with others on MetaFilter.
Keep in mind that MetaFilter is more than front page posts. If there’s a particular Project you’ve been working on, music you’ve created, or media you like, then you can share all these things on the Projects, Music, or FanFare pages!
Our only request is that you tag these posts with ‘BIPOC’ or let the mods know and we’ll add the tags.
To that end, we have a few suggestions/themes, but no one has to feel bound to use them, they’re merely suggestions:
How does your culture use rice cookers?
What is one thing about your culture that people have misconceptions about or have stigmas within Western cultural perceptions?
How does your country or culture view/treat cats (past and present)?
What’s a particular food item that is popular in your culture and what are some of the popular variants?
The posts don’t have to be long or filled with links, but it’s ok if they are! Single link posts are absolutely fine on MetaFilter and have a long history on the site.
We’re doing this as a way to showcase the width and breadth of MetaFilter’s global community. No other community is forbidden or discouraged from posting during this event, we merely ask other communities to highlight or share their culture with others on MetaFilter.
Keep in mind that MetaFilter is more than front page posts. If there’s a particular Project you’ve been working on, music you’ve created, or media you like, then you can share all these things on the Projects, Music, or FanFare pages!
Our only request is that you tag these posts with ‘BIPOC’ or let the mods know and we’ll add the tags.
Hey, so, I saw the comment that was deleted (unless there was more than one). The comment I saw found the OP post itself offensive (tbh, the post raised my eyebrows too, for similar reasons). The comment was by someone identifying as BIPOC themselves.
I think a more community-oriented response would be to thoughtfully address the issue that was raised, rather than accusing the person who raised it of insensitivity and immediately shutting down any critique.
posted by trig at 11:15 AM on November 14 [14 favorites]
I think a more community-oriented response would be to thoughtfully address the issue that was raised, rather than accusing the person who raised it of insensitivity and immediately shutting down any critique.
posted by trig at 11:15 AM on November 14 [14 favorites]
A friendly suggestion: could the tag be named something else, along the lines of "NovemBIPOC" or similar (I assume that if there's interest, this will continue beyond the second week of November, which is already half-over.) BIPOC is used as a tag pretty frequently, and this preserves that use and avoids weird edge cases like someone who does not consider themselves BIPOC but are posting a link with subject matter that could be reasonably tagged that way.
Another thing I'm not clear on (as someone who is BIPOC who was considering make a post about a silly web game today) is whether this can go on any post by a BIPOC Mefite or if it's meant to be more narrowly interpreted, as posts by BIPOC about "culture"? I think the questions and the use of "BIPOC" as a tag kind of lend to that confusion. Bickering about this kind of thing is a time-honored mefi tradition, so I understand not wanting to come down too hard on one side or another, but I would appreciate a little more clarity.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 11:17 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]
Another thing I'm not clear on (as someone who is BIPOC who was considering make a post about a silly web game today) is whether this can go on any post by a BIPOC Mefite or if it's meant to be more narrowly interpreted, as posts by BIPOC about "culture"? I think the questions and the use of "BIPOC" as a tag kind of lend to that confusion. Bickering about this kind of thing is a time-honored mefi tradition, so I understand not wanting to come down too hard on one side or another, but I would appreciate a little more clarity.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 11:17 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]
At the very least, and extending the wording of this the greatest possible charity, this should have been posted in a way that makes it much more clear that it's not the mods or Metafilter as an institution speaking.
I'm not even sure I'm correct in that assumption - can a mod confirm that all they've done is post something from written by the BIPOC board under a staff username?
posted by sagc at 11:17 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]
I'm not even sure I'm correct in that assumption - can a mod confirm that all they've done is post something from written by the BIPOC board under a staff username?
posted by sagc at 11:17 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]
Yes, please. I, too, was a bit surprised by some of the message, but I thought "this is the BIPOC board speaking, and this could result in some interesting posts, so favorite away, buckaroo."
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:24 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:24 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]
Thank you for bringing that up, trig, there were several comments (happening at the same time as the note was posted). I've update the mod note to reflect that and reached out to the member in question privately.
Now, for clarification the post was made by Brandon as a member of the BIPOC Board and as part of a larger initiative the Board is working on. Also: tags updated as requested.
posted by loup (staff) at 11:37 AM on November 14
Now, for clarification the post was made by Brandon as a member of the BIPOC Board and as part of a larger initiative the Board is working on. Also: tags updated as requested.
posted by loup (staff) at 11:37 AM on November 14
For anyone who missed the original comment, at least the one that I saw: It was a short, frustrated comment that said that questions like "How does your culture use rice cookers?" were themselves stereotypical and reductive (or another similar word, I don't remember).
Deleting that comment instead of showing some understanding of, awareness of, and empathy for the legitimate reasons it was made - and then going even further and accusing the poster of committing some transgression against the BIPOC board - is not okay. This is not an okay direction for the site to be going in.
The general animosity towards site users whose reactions are not easy or complimentary is not okay. The use of site guidelines as a (flagrantly hypocritical) blunt weapon is not okay. A mod staff that knows only how to shut down discussion, and does not know how to shape it instead, is not okay. Frankly, it's not Metafilter.
As much as I've complained about the current management's inability to effectively fundraise, communicate, or complete almost any concrete tasks on a remotely timely basis - this is worse.
On preview: This is not something to only "reach out privately" about.
posted by trig at 11:42 AM on November 14 [10 favorites]
Deleting that comment instead of showing some understanding of, awareness of, and empathy for the legitimate reasons it was made - and then going even further and accusing the poster of committing some transgression against the BIPOC board - is not okay. This is not an okay direction for the site to be going in.
The general animosity towards site users whose reactions are not easy or complimentary is not okay. The use of site guidelines as a (flagrantly hypocritical) blunt weapon is not okay. A mod staff that knows only how to shut down discussion, and does not know how to shape it instead, is not okay. Frankly, it's not Metafilter.
As much as I've complained about the current management's inability to effectively fundraise, communicate, or complete almost any concrete tasks on a remotely timely basis - this is worse.
On preview: This is not something to only "reach out privately" about.
posted by trig at 11:42 AM on November 14 [10 favorites]
I understand that Brandon was probably on the BIPOC board before he became a mod, but is it really faithful to the intent of that board's purpose for a mod to be its main interface with the larger community?
posted by dusty potato at 11:52 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]
posted by dusty potato at 11:52 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]
I agree--I'm sure Brandon does good work on the board and I don't think he needs to leave it, but it would be nice to get a BIPOC board update that was not through him or loup.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 11:54 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 11:54 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]
The post raised my eyebrows, too. Here is why:
1. Asking people to provide cultural education for the benefit of others not in their culture, free, is such a well-known poor practice that is in fact the reason that members of the BIPOC Biard get a stipend. That was a community recommendation when the board was launched.
2. I’m confused about how “BIPOC” as used here seems to equal “global.” Those are overlapping but distinct identities. The goal is unclear.
posted by Miko at 11:57 AM on November 14 [4 favorites]
1. Asking people to provide cultural education for the benefit of others not in their culture, free, is such a well-known poor practice that is in fact the reason that members of the BIPOC Biard get a stipend. That was a community recommendation when the board was launched.
2. I’m confused about how “BIPOC” as used here seems to equal “global.” Those are overlapping but distinct identities. The goal is unclear.
posted by Miko at 11:57 AM on November 14 [4 favorites]
For anyone who missed the original comment, at least the one that I saw: It was a short, frustrated comment that said that questions like "How does your culture use rice cookers?" were themselves stereotypical and reductive (or another similar word, I don't remember).
loup’s deletion of this comment was itself a microaggression. If they’re going to moderating these discussions, this fact can’t just be deleted away.
posted by undead giblets at 12:01 PM on November 14 [3 favorites]
loup’s deletion of this comment was itself a microaggression. If they’re going to moderating these discussions, this fact can’t just be deleted away.
posted by undead giblets at 12:01 PM on November 14 [3 favorites]
This is confusing. BIPOC and “global” aren’t synonyms. BIPOC and non-Western aren’t synonyms. Is this intended for culturally underrepresented members to post only about their cultures?
The rice cookers, cats, and food combo is… all I can say is that this is the first time phunniemee has made me laugh so at least there’s that.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:01 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]
The rice cookers, cats, and food combo is… all I can say is that this is the first time phunniemee has made me laugh so at least there’s that.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:01 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]
is it really faithful to the intent of that board's purpose for a mod to be its main interface with the larger community?
Good question. In this specific case the proposal was discussed and approved by the board in our last meeting and Brandon (as part of the Board) decided to take the lead and make it happen.
Now, regarding comments deleted. they were deleted based on the guidelines and content policy alone, saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site. The member in question has been contacted and invited to provide feedback to the board either here or directly to them in a way that complies with the content policy and guidelines instead of resourcing to name calling. I'll stop addressing questions/comments regarding these deletions as that is not the main purpose of this thread.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:06 PM on November 14
Good question. In this specific case the proposal was discussed and approved by the board in our last meeting and Brandon (as part of the Board) decided to take the lead and make it happen.
Now, regarding comments deleted. they were deleted based on the guidelines and content policy alone, saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site. The member in question has been contacted and invited to provide feedback to the board either here or directly to them in a way that complies with the content policy and guidelines instead of resourcing to name calling. I'll stop addressing questions/comments regarding these deletions as that is not the main purpose of this thread.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:06 PM on November 14
they were deleted based on the guidelines and content policy alone, saying things like "WTF is this shit?"
So their tone was wrong? This isn’t helping your case.
If loup isn’t willing to address their actions in this thread (as they just declared they weren’t), this should have its own meta. We can’t have someone who’s ostensibly in charge of the guidelines and their endorsement refusing to contend with their own on-site behavior.
posted by undead giblets at 12:09 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]
So their tone was wrong? This isn’t helping your case.
If loup isn’t willing to address their actions in this thread (as they just declared they weren’t), this should have its own meta. We can’t have someone who’s ostensibly in charge of the guidelines and their endorsement refusing to contend with their own on-site behavior.
posted by undead giblets at 12:09 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]
I did not see the second comment you referenced. I did see one that ended in "WTF is this shit?"
If Metafilter is led by people who think that "WTF is this shit?" is something no one should be allowed to say about site initiatives, then that is absolutely a serious, fundamental, and central issue.
posted by trig at 12:10 PM on November 14 [3 favorites]
If Metafilter is led by people who think that "WTF is this shit?" is something no one should be allowed to say about site initiatives, then that is absolutely a serious, fundamental, and central issue.
posted by trig at 12:10 PM on November 14 [3 favorites]
Now, regarding comments deleted. they were deleted based on the guidelines and content policy alone, saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site.
This is fundamentally untrue. The swears came after completely reasonable questions had been asked and deleted.
You do know people can see the posts here, right? I have eyes?
posted by phunniemee at 12:10 PM on November 14 [5 favorites]
This is fundamentally untrue. The swears came after completely reasonable questions had been asked and deleted.
You do know people can see the posts here, right? I have eyes?
posted by phunniemee at 12:10 PM on November 14 [5 favorites]
saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site.
Calling that "insensitive statements" and "name-calling against the Board" is a very loaded characterization, as a few people have already pointed out.
I'll stop addressing questions/comments regarding these deletions as that is not the main purpose of this thread.
I mean, it might not have started that way, but it seems there's a need for a conversation about what kind of reactions to potential microaggressions are deemed "acceptable", especially given the mod/user dynamic.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 12:10 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]
Calling that "insensitive statements" and "name-calling against the Board" is a very loaded characterization, as a few people have already pointed out.
I'll stop addressing questions/comments regarding these deletions as that is not the main purpose of this thread.
I mean, it might not have started that way, but it seems there's a need for a conversation about what kind of reactions to potential microaggressions are deemed "acceptable", especially given the mod/user dynamic.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 12:10 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]
And again: if Metafilter is led by people who think that shutting down an expression of offense and frustration because they don't like the way it was worded is the right thing to do, without responding to the actual offense and frustration behind the comment - then I think Metafilter is not being moderated by people who understand moderation anymore.
posted by trig at 12:13 PM on November 14 [5 favorites]
posted by trig at 12:13 PM on November 14 [5 favorites]
loup, once again: You should not be moderating this thread, at all. It’s completely unprofessional for you to be trying to steer a conversation about your actions.
posted by undead giblets at 12:13 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]
posted by undead giblets at 12:13 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]
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posted by loup (staff) at 10:54 AM on November 14