MetaFilter and Trump 2.0 January 14, 2025 1:53 AM Subscribe
Trump will be US President again real soon, so we're expecting a lot more
news and political posts on the front page. These types of posts often spawn a lot arguing, which often goes badly.
Here's several suggestions that everyone can do to help lessen said arguing and toxicity:
Finally, please avoid turning this particular thread into an argument about specific news and/or politics. We're just looking for ways to manage the political storm, not create another one. If things start going in that direction, we may have to remove some comments from this particular thread in order to keep things on track.
Edited to add links about coping and/or dealing in the new administration:
Coping in a red state
Political podcasts I can stomach
- Remember that MetaFilter is not a news site. We're a community weblog where people post interesting links. If you believe that a news or political link needs or has to be on MetaFilter, please reconsider that thought carefully. But if you're sure about it, please take a little time to frame the link(s) in an interesting way. Single link posts are generally fine, but they're also made better by a sentence or two that describes what they're about.
- Posts about American politics should be labeled with the tag 'uspolitics' Please add 'trump' when appropriate. If you do not see these tags and you can not add them yourself, please contact the mods so we can add them.
- Use MyMefi to sort the front page so that political and news posts do not appear on your front page.
- Avoid doom day like speculation and don't create posts that could come off as conspiracy theory-ish.
- Walk away from political and news posts if you find yourself getting angry or want to prove a point. Consider creating non-political posts that you and the community can enjoy.
Finally, please avoid turning this particular thread into an argument about specific news and/or politics. We're just looking for ways to manage the political storm, not create another one. If things start going in that direction, we may have to remove some comments from this particular thread in order to keep things on track.
Edited to add links about coping and/or dealing in the new administration:
Coping in a red state
Political podcasts I can stomach
*humming* it’s okay for someone to be wrong on the internet *humming*
posted by lucidium at 3:38 AM on January 14 [9 favorites]
posted by lucidium at 3:38 AM on January 14 [9 favorites]
Brandon, we always heard that the megathreads were a moderation nightmare. However, in the current I/P threads, we have what at least looks like a megathread-style approach, a single thread full of updates, analysis and commentary, letting the topic be available to those who want it but not spread out over multiple posts.
Which actually works better for the site--a single regular post with tons of updates, or a larger number of posts that one hopes are well-tagged for people trying to avoid the news?
posted by mittens at 5:23 AM on January 14 [5 favorites]
Which actually works better for the site--a single regular post with tons of updates, or a larger number of posts that one hopes are well-tagged for people trying to avoid the news?
posted by mittens at 5:23 AM on January 14 [5 favorites]
Can we have some clarification about comments that bring uspol into unrelated posts? Is it okay to flag these as a derail and expect mods to remove them and any related comments? Personally I find that more troublesome than the occasional politics post on the front page (which is easily blocked). I'm talking about people coming into totally unrelated topics just to say something about Trump or politics, not like edge cases that are discussing, say, social issues.
posted by fight or flight at 5:28 AM on January 14 [4 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 5:28 AM on January 14 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Which actually works better for the site--a single regular post with tons of updates, or a larger number of posts that one hopes are well-tagged for people trying to avoid the news?
The I/P threads are a special case, where most of the participants have agreed to stick to a single thread (either explicitly or implicitly) that comparatively aren't anywhere near approaching 1000 comments. If members self organized (more or less) political/news stuff to single post or two that doesn't go on the entire month, that probably be fine.
Can we have some clarification about comments that bring uspol into unrelated posts? Is it okay to flag these as a derail and expect mods to remove them and any related comments?
Yes, please flag those as a derail or with a note and they should be removed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:53 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
The I/P threads are a special case, where most of the participants have agreed to stick to a single thread (either explicitly or implicitly) that comparatively aren't anywhere near approaching 1000 comments. If members self organized (more or less) political/news stuff to single post or two that doesn't go on the entire month, that probably be fine.
Can we have some clarification about comments that bring uspol into unrelated posts? Is it okay to flag these as a derail and expect mods to remove them and any related comments?
Yes, please flag those as a derail or with a note and they should be removed.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:53 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
Note: Avoid doomsday speculation.
posted by box at 5:59 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 5:59 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter is not a news site.
As someone who started lurking here in 2014, you could have fooled me! I imagine if someone came across the site today, they'd come off with the impression that the Blue is a mix of arts & culture, politics, breaking news, science and tech, etc. The breaking news part might not be the original intent, but it appears that ship has sailed.
We're open to other suggestions if you got'em!
How hard would it be to create a separate page for news? (and may a suggest a shit-brown color?)
posted by coffeecat at 6:50 AM on January 14 [9 favorites]
As someone who started lurking here in 2014, you could have fooled me! I imagine if someone came across the site today, they'd come off with the impression that the Blue is a mix of arts & culture, politics, breaking news, science and tech, etc. The breaking news part might not be the original intent, but it appears that ship has sailed.
We're open to other suggestions if you got'em!
How hard would it be to create a separate page for news? (and may a suggest a shit-brown color?)
posted by coffeecat at 6:50 AM on January 14 [9 favorites]
How hard would it be to create a separate page for news?
That would be glorious.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:53 AM on January 14 [4 favorites]
That would be glorious.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:53 AM on January 14 [4 favorites]
and I said that for years but was told no,
metaflters not a new site and today I concur.
posted by clavdivs at 7:24 AM on January 14
metaflters not a new site and today I concur.
posted by clavdivs at 7:24 AM on January 14
Today I learned that I can subscribe to MyMefi in my favorite RSS reader, just like I can all the other MetaFilter pages. Cool!
posted by Ampersand692 at 7:51 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Ampersand692 at 7:51 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter may not have been intended for news, but plenty of "news" does happen on MetaFilter. Heavy emphasis on Filter, as so much of what gets shared here is of much greater value than the stuff I see elsewhere.
I appreciate trying to get ahead of things and maybe people will need reminders
posted by ginger.beef at 8:09 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
I appreciate trying to get ahead of things and maybe people will need reminders
posted by ginger.beef at 8:09 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
One deleted. Sorry, but as the post says "avoid turning this particular thread into an argument about specific news and/or politics," and that goes double about completely hypothetical very specific bizarre news. (iow, let's not take up a chunk of space and time arguing out something completely made up as an exercise).
posted by taz (staff) at 8:22 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 8:22 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
Yes but how else can we make up weird edge cases as a reason to not implement changes unless they're flawless.
posted by Diskeater at 8:24 AM on January 14 [3 favorites]
posted by Diskeater at 8:24 AM on January 14 [3 favorites]
Well, I can see people sort of meandering in their head, "hm... what if," because everyone does that, but we really hope to keep this pretty targeted and get everyone's useful ideas about ways to deal with what's going to be a very difficult situation.
posted by taz (staff) at 8:27 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 8:27 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
I think resisting the urge to engage in the circular firing squad and/or purity tests with other Mefites would be helpful specifically in the political threads and more generally across the site. As a group I think we have much more in common then not and most of us have a greater desire to see things get better rather than worse. Empathy is better than hate, no matter how frustrated you are about a situation or a particular person's take on a subject.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:37 AM on January 14 [8 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:37 AM on January 14 [8 favorites]
Which actually works better for the site--a single regular post with tons of updates, or a larger number of posts that one hopes are well-tagged for people trying to avoid the news?
I strongly encourage multiple, focused posts oriented around a specific topic. Some rudimentary analysis of participation in unfocused megathreads versus topic-oriented threads showed the former to be dominated by a few voices while the latter showed more diverse participation. I can't say whether that helps people avoid the news if that's what they want to do, but I can say that the topic-oriented threads were a better discussion environment than the megathreads.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 8:48 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
I strongly encourage multiple, focused posts oriented around a specific topic. Some rudimentary analysis of participation in unfocused megathreads versus topic-oriented threads showed the former to be dominated by a few voices while the latter showed more diverse participation. I can't say whether that helps people avoid the news if that's what they want to do, but I can say that the topic-oriented threads were a better discussion environment than the megathreads.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 8:48 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
I'm curious about whether Metafilter will continue to resist Newsfilter. People like talking about the news!
It's always been a BIT newsfilter. Think of the 9/11 thread! And we have this fight all the time with obituaries.... Even right now there's a random thread about Starbucks' new rules on loitering which is clearly newsfilter.
What's wrong with that?
If you could only watch 2 minutes of the video about the RUSH pinball machine before you got antsy and went to read people talk about how much they hate Starbucks, maybe that's okay?
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:31 AM on January 14
It's always been a BIT newsfilter. Think of the 9/11 thread! And we have this fight all the time with obituaries.... Even right now there's a random thread about Starbucks' new rules on loitering which is clearly newsfilter.
What's wrong with that?
If you could only watch 2 minutes of the video about the RUSH pinball machine before you got antsy and went to read people talk about how much they hate Starbucks, maybe that's okay?
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:31 AM on January 14
News is part of the mix! But some people seem to be thinking that we are here for news, like that's our purpose. It is not! In the beginning, I mean very, very, very beginning, Matt was very much against news stuff, as I remember, and that was when there was a lot of talk and back and forth and the actual phrase "newsfilter" came about, usually as a pejorative. But people did want to talk about some news stuff. Others really, really wanted to avoid news stuff. Now, as always, it's a tough balancing act to give people mostly(!) what they want in a site that feels very personal to them.
One thing that helps is to not go into the sorts of threads you don't want to engage with on the site. I know that sounds simplistic, but sometimes ... I don't know, I guess people feel compelled to do that for whatever their reasons are. Probably different reasons.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:51 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
One thing that helps is to not go into the sorts of threads you don't want to engage with on the site. I know that sounds simplistic, but sometimes ... I don't know, I guess people feel compelled to do that for whatever their reasons are. Probably different reasons.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:51 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this isn't about banning news or politics from the site, but how to engage with under the new Trump era. And how to do so in way that doesn't prompt a lot of fighting that turns people away from the site or causes them to leave.
The nature of the incoming POTUS is to say a lot of shit and do a lot of shit and MetaFilter doesn't need a post for every single single one of those things.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:57 AM on January 14 [12 favorites]
The nature of the incoming POTUS is to say a lot of shit and do a lot of shit and MetaFilter doesn't need a post for every single single one of those things.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:57 AM on January 14 [12 favorites]
I think metafilter would benefit from having a separate news filter page. could this be possible with the new redesign. the benefit would be having interesting and odd local news as well as National. This could give an opportunity for international members to post news. it may seem like a compartmentalization but I think it could be a interesting space and see what happens.
I always wanted a separate page for posts in different languages other than English. the only problem I seen with this is some coding and moderating.
posted by clavdivs at 11:04 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
I always wanted a separate page for posts in different languages other than English. the only problem I seen with this is some coding and moderating.
posted by clavdivs at 11:04 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
clavdivs I don't even know what 4D chess would look like but sometimes I think you're playing it
posted by ginger.beef at 11:16 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
posted by ginger.beef at 11:16 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
... I'm not going to post here in Dutch for the seventeen members who can read it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:18 AM on January 14
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:18 AM on January 14
... I'm not going to post here in Dutch for the seventeen members who can read it.
not ... with that attitude...? hm, i don't think that joke works.
this is a good thread and a good initiative.
posted by Sebmojo at 12:13 PM on January 14 [1 favorite]
not ... with that attitude...? hm, i don't think that joke works.
this is a good thread and a good initiative.
posted by Sebmojo at 12:13 PM on January 14 [1 favorite]
A 'News" subsite is a pretty good idea, IMO.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:26 PM on January 14
posted by From Bklyn at 1:26 PM on January 14
I think metafilter would benefit from having a separate news filter page ... I always wanted a separate page for posts in different languages other than English.
¿Por qué no los dos?
posted by chavenet at 1:27 PM on January 14
¿Por qué no los dos?
posted by chavenet at 1:27 PM on January 14
This might not be the right thread but is metafilter hosted / safely mirrored (idk the terms) as sites like this are a threat to governments like yours (and mine in NZ).
posted by unearthed at 1:29 PM on January 14 [2 favorites]
posted by unearthed at 1:29 PM on January 14 [2 favorites]
Piggybacking on what unearthed just said, back in the day - the first, terrible, day that ran from 2016 to 2020 - there was a pinned post in the banner that said something like Metafilter Has Not Been Audited. Actually I have no idea what it said but the idea was that if mefi specifically had been targeted for an investigation, it would be removed. IIRC it was jessamyn's idea and based on something from a library. I know this has nothing much to do with the politics threads, but, um, it might be good to revive it?
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:38 PM on January 14
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:38 PM on January 14
Also just want to add my voice as someone who very much likes the politics threads and in fact they were a huge lifeline for me during the first Trump "administration." I don't comment much in them but I do read and I do appreciate the links that I otherwise would probably not find in the firehose.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:41 PM on January 14
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:41 PM on January 14
How hard would it be to create a separate page for news? (and may a suggest a shit-brown color?)
Everything old is new(s) again. (Note the pre-Ask colour scheme.)
As others are saying, we've always posted about and discussed news here, but we know that good posts are more than just a news ticker, and single-link breaking news posts with little or no context are usually ripe for deletion. On the other hand, one of our most famous early threads was a single-link breaking news post.
The issue isn't going to be news per se, I suspect, so much as Trump and co.'s conscious strategy to Flood the Zone With Shit as a way of neutering the media. If we have a post about every bit of that shit then we too will be... in the shit.
posted by rory at 2:59 PM on January 14
Everything old is new(s) again. (Note the pre-Ask colour scheme.)
As others are saying, we've always posted about and discussed news here, but we know that good posts are more than just a news ticker, and single-link breaking news posts with little or no context are usually ripe for deletion. On the other hand, one of our most famous early threads was a single-link breaking news post.
The issue isn't going to be news per se, I suspect, so much as Trump and co.'s conscious strategy to Flood the Zone With Shit as a way of neutering the media. If we have a post about every bit of that shit then we too will be... in the shit.
posted by rory at 2:59 PM on January 14
I think this is a great post!
I want to nth that I always liked the politics/megathreads. The variety of links — much vaster than I saw anyplace else — were always huge draw, but so was cross-country/international insight into what was going on.
I also agree they should be somewhat/totally corralled off, or put into their own section since there has always seemed to be 50/50 interest/disinterest in them: If corralling politics off makes the disinterested happy, it will help keep everyone happy.
Finally, apart from better defining what kind of text goes where on the site, I think we should do a far better job of strongly and consistently encouraging good behavior site-wide:
posted by Violet Blue at 3:46 PM on January 14 [1 favorite]
I want to nth that I always liked the politics/megathreads. The variety of links — much vaster than I saw anyplace else — were always huge draw, but so was cross-country/international insight into what was going on.
I also agree they should be somewhat/totally corralled off, or put into their own section since there has always seemed to be 50/50 interest/disinterest in them: If corralling politics off makes the disinterested happy, it will help keep everyone happy.
Finally, apart from better defining what kind of text goes where on the site, I think we should do a far better job of strongly and consistently encouraging good behavior site-wide:
- No circular firing squads and/or purity tests
- No threadshitting, sanctimoniously or otherwise
- No threadjacking
- No cloaked bullying with an air of righteousness or as a shield against any complaints about someone's behavior.
posted by Violet Blue at 3:46 PM on January 14 [1 favorite]
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This is the best general-purpose how-to-use-the-internet advice ever. Like, this should be included in every login, every router-admin page… just, fucking, everywhere people interface with the ‚net.‘. A general banner at the top of every page.
Hopefully it‘ll be adopted here going forward
posted by From Bklyn at 3:36 AM on January 14 [9 favorites]