Swift Boat FPP callout August 25, 2004 11:38 AM   Subscribe

This post is nothing more than a mini op-ed piece about the top news story (at the time) that takes up too much real estate on the home page and has been discussed to death already. IMO, if your FPP has one link and needs a "more inside...", you need to rethink it's place here.
posted by mkultra to Etiquette/Policy at 11:38 AM (21 comments total)

mkultra's "MetaTalk" link showed up while I had this in preview on the thread in question:
    I gotta go with Blue Train and mkultra on this FPP. It would've been a great link on one of the SBVT threads that are still on the front page, where some of us have been adding updates like this. Not every single development needs a whole thread.
That said, I will dissent from the "discussed to death" concept. There's still plenty to discuss as there will be more developments. But that's why threads stay commentable for 30 days instead of 30 minutes, folks. Fill out and enrich the original threads with these updates. It's better for the front page now, it's better for people looking for this stuff in the future.
posted by soyjoy at 11:51 AM on August 25, 2004

"Thank you sir, may I have another?"
posted by Witty at 12:00 PM on August 25, 2004

That said, I will dissent from the "discussed to death" concept. There's still plenty to discuss as there will be more developments.

True, true. Maybe "posted to death" would be more apt. I'm certainly not one to stand in the way of a good rant, just not as a post itself.
posted by mkultra at 12:13 PM on August 25, 2004

...if your FPP has one link and needs a "more inside...", you need to rethink it's place here.

This statement deserves repeating.
Except for the improper apostrophe usage.
posted by modofo at 12:23 PM on August 25, 2004

mkultra, you're making the faulty assumption that this site will shun liberal op-ed rant FPPs. It's purely anti-Bush and flamebait, and a bit ignorant on facts, but we should expect nothing less.
posted by MrAnonymous at 12:23 PM on August 25, 2004

I'd just like to say that this casual use of "real estate" to describe space being used on a website really shits me. It's almost as bad as people who call everything "content".
posted by reklaw at 12:24 PM on August 25, 2004

One of the cool things about Ask MetaFilter is that we've all agreed the usual MeFi behavior is very unwelcome there. No formal rules were posted, no new policy was coded into the backend. We just agreed. And it worked.

How about if we all agreed to the same sort of thing during this U.S. election cycle? A higher standard. Even though we all jump into the mud and wallow with those we individually consider pigs, no one likes it. Everyone thinks it's being done badly. Not always, but certainly most of the time. Yes?

So what if we agreed to some standards? Just some simple rules between friends, right?

1) All political FFPs must make an attempt to present the issue/link/op-ed/content in a well supported manner. Link to primary sources. Give supporting or contrasting links. Plant the seeds of discussion rather than knee jerking.

2) No pissing in the pool. Don't make a snarky comment or call people names or otherwise crap in the thread just because it makes your blood boil. If the issue gets you mad, then make your point with facts and logic. Or think about it and come back later.

3) Unless you are willing to defend your assertions with facts and logic, don't engage in character assassination. If Bush is stupid or evil, you'll need to support that formally. Ditto for Kerry flip-flopping or docking issues.

We're adults here, and we can do better. In this case, much better. And the only reason this sort of thing is allowed at all is that real gems, in terms of links or arguments, frequently make it into the political threads. There's gold here. Let's agree to strive for more of it if we're really going to take up MeFi real estate with political threads.

There's a great attraction in these sorts of debates to just meet the other side in an anonymous forum and yell at each other. Let's agree we'd be happier without that. Just for a couple more months.

The policing action for snarky hyperbole is: "Well, that's a very interesting point. Obviously you feel strongly about this. But I think many here would disagree. And your in your haste your comment is distressingly short on details. Perhaps you can express your point more fully, with some supporting facts?"
posted by y6y6y6 at 12:29 PM on August 25, 2004

posted by taz at 12:37 PM on August 25, 2004

mkultura is correct. This is merely an op/ed screed tossed onto the Blue.

This could have been made in a productive way where the underlying issue could be addressed. However, it was tossed out there as a troll post, using the exact definition that Matt levied against a PP post.

How different could the discussion be if it was written like this:

The After Effects of McCain-Feingold. Designed to clean up elections, McCain/Feingold has created an environment where many "527" groups have sprung up to engage in issue advocacy. Under the regulation, campaigns are not supposed to be involved with these 527's. Yet, there are allegations that both the Republicans and Democrats are closely involved with these groups. Does this behavior violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the law to the point where everyone who is involved in both groups and campaigns has to resign? If so, do we want McCain-Feingold to prevent these kinds of groups or political participation?[.pdf] Or do we want to protect their actions on free speech grounds?

A post like this above creates the opportunity to discuss the real issue. As the FPP was framed at issue here, it is nothing but an op/ed dump.
The difference of emphasis would hopefully improve the value of the post, and the time it takes is minimal.
posted by Seth at 12:48 PM on August 25, 2004

This fucking swift boat issue has got to die. How much longer can it go on for?

Terrible post.
posted by Quartermass at 1:04 PM on August 25, 2004

wikipedia links=lame
posted by y2karl at 1:29 PM on August 25, 2004

Here's a good guide to posting, in flash form.

I am not, in any way affiliated with or promoting the use of Steam. The only time I have been to the site was to grab the URL after seeing this flash animation.
posted by sequential at 1:39 PM on August 25, 2004

sequential, that is not only fabulous, it might be FPP worthy.
posted by chicobangs at 1:57 PM on August 25, 2004

Here's a good guide to posting, in flash form.

MeFi needs one of those. Very seriously. Or else, like chico says, it should be posted on the Blue and linked on the sidebar.
posted by Shane at 2:12 PM on August 25, 2004

I'd actually love to see Y6's comment on the posting page and sidebar. And maybe tattooed on everybody's forehead.
posted by taz at 2:40 PM on August 25, 2004

it might be FPP worthy.

*snort* What are you talking about? It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Bush vs. Kerry!
posted by soyjoy at 2:42 PM on August 25, 2004

It's almost as bad as people who call everything "content".
I'm content.
Maybe a little too content.
Time to adjust the meds.
posted by wendell at 2:54 PM on August 25, 2004

Sequential, ya gotta post that to the blue...
posted by mkultra at 3:19 PM on August 25, 2004

I am extremely unhappy that my post was deleted. I have seen far worse "op/ed" stuff go onto the front page, and stay there.

If one of Bush's advisors for B-C '04 resigning isn't FPP material, what is?

(And, shouldn't I at least have received an email about this?)

Anyways, not my property, so do what you want. I'm just unhappy about it. I'll note Silk's and others constructive criticisms.
posted by andreaazure at 9:16 PM on August 25, 2004

...hwuh? Silk is a drink, lady.
posted by soyjoy at 9:41 PM on August 25, 2004

Sequential - that was great. POST IT!
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:09 AM on August 26, 2004

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