Newsfilter callout September 28, 2004 4:57 PM   Subscribe

The Final Nail. I haven't been reading as much lately---I'm am hoping that the election will be over soon so the excuses are gone for shitty posts. But, there it is.

A double post. It is a Newsfilter post, that isn't even news since it has been talked about for over a decade. It is clearly does not meet the stated standard. It is a classic troll: toss a turd that you *know* will incite much argument, for no apparent reason.. It is a single-link to a newspaper. It is a blatant amount of negative campaigning even while we try to encourage voting with a new link at the top of the page.

For the love of god, it is a self-Godwinizing post!

Matt posted the very next post, 30 minutes later, so there is no chance he didn't see the post.

Yet... it remains there on the blue.

It is the piece de resitance of the the shithole Matt has willingly allowed MeFi to become. I would say amazing if it wasn't so sad....
posted by Seth to Etiquette/Policy at 4:57 PM (104 comments total)

One user has bad judgement and suddenly the whole 17,000 of us add up to a shithole.
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:02 PM on September 28, 2004


eustacescrubb,
I didn't call the users name. I called what Metafilter has become "a shithole." Some users wanted to hijack the site, and Matt allowed them. As such, this place might as well be Kos. There is no filtering done.

And before it is said, I realized that I left a 's' out of resistance. And I don't know how to do accent marks.
posted by Seth at 5:08 PM on September 28, 2004


What's great is that now it features a classic Troutfishing pixel-puke post right in the middle of it. This FPP has everything!
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 5:09 PM on September 28, 2004


Seth, there's only one solution. Don' t participate in threads you find distasteful/offensive/boring/stupid or contribute something to counter the assertions. Or here's a radical idea, contribute something that you find interesting to start a disussion that might interest you. Or would you rather play Waldorf & Statler for the rest of your life?
posted by jonmc at 5:12 PM on September 28, 2004


Funny story: I saw a comment by Seth in a thread about two minutes ago and knew when I came to metatalk he would have started a thread.

Personally, I think it's an interesting story, but I don't believe it has any real relevance to the campaign of 2004, not really anyway. However, a post about nazi funding doesn't violate the law of Godwin because it isn't an argument that devolves into using a nazi analogy to attempt to prove a point. So, you know, that's kind of irrelevant.

Also, a troll has no intrinsic value or factual basis. If someone posted that in a thread about Dubya's campaign today, it would be a troll. As it is it's just a thread about Dubya's grandfather.

As for your smug, self-righteous teeone, well, it's as unwelcome as ever. I hope that Kerry wins so we don't have four more years of Seth's endless whining. Maybe he'll get over it when everyone complains about Kerry being too moderate; then he'll finally understand that none of this is partisan, only the (welcome) product of a user base that is largely left-leaning.
posted by The God Complex at 5:12 PM on September 28, 2004


This FPP has everything!

No; quonsar still needs to tell Ethereal Bligh to shut up, I think, and FreedomParamus needs to remark that Bush is going to win anyway.
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:13 PM on September 28, 2004


So leave.

Or are you compelled to come here and shit yourself all the time? Is there a gun to your head? A timebomb strapped to you? What? You think this time things will change as a result of one of you MeTa threads?
posted by amberglow at 5:14 PM on September 28, 2004


"teeone" should be "tone". damn weird cursor skipping.
posted by The God Complex at 5:14 PM on September 28, 2004


I actually like "teeone" TGC. It could be the next "izzle."

For seeone, my neeone.
posted by jonmc at 5:19 PM on September 28, 2004


Is there some rota where a handful of folks take turns being total knob-ends for a few months at a time? And when does Seth's shift finish?
posted by i_cola at 5:23 PM on September 28, 2004


and to think, not to long ago everyone was praising hoder. sad.
posted by bob sarabia at 5:24 PM on September 28, 2004


Back in the old days that post would have been gone, tho, so he does have a point.
posted by konolia at 5:26 PM on September 28, 2004


It's an interesting and important story. The this-may-influence-the-election angle is really unfortunate, but it can be ignored.
posted by orange swan at 5:29 PM on September 28, 2004


The Morning News has it on their blog. It can't be that bad of a link. Why are you going crazy mad? Are you Bill O'Reilly?
posted by geoff. at 5:32 PM on September 28, 2004


I actually like "teeone" TGC. It could be the next "izzle."

I actually debated explaining it away as some cool inflection, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. It's good to know that I would have had your support, though.


Back in the old days that post would have been gone, tho, so he does have a point.


Cool Guardian links always get posted on metafilter. Again, I don't think it's relevant to the election this year, but it's still an interesting chapter in the deplorable history of the Bush family.
posted by The God Complex at 5:32 PM on September 28, 2004


I dunno, konolia, comparing somebody to Hitler is Godwinning, in that it does shut down any sane conversation, but allegations about the Bush fortune's being connected to Nazism is something that can be proved or disproved and is a relevant topic of discussion since many influential people in the US and elsewhere did profit off Nazism, at least for a while.
posted by jonmc at 5:32 PM on September 28, 2004


It is the piece de resitance of the the shithole Matt has willingly allowed MeFi to become.

Of all the would-be Matts you, Seth, are easily the most sterile , repetitive and single-minded.

Must it be explained to you once more that MetaFilter is not a result of quantitative whining but of the sum-total of quality posts? Instead of acting as a self-appointed little policeman (I always imagine you as that awful actor that played Cliff Barnes in "Dallas", Ken Kercheval) with an ill-fitting home-made uniform; why don't you lead by example and show us what sort of post you think is appropriate for our weblog?

You've been here since 1999 and have so far offered one (mediocre) post to the blue. Your whining has become increasingly personal and vindictive. If MetaFilter has become a shithole, then I'm a shitholer. If Matt was willing to allow MeFi to become a shithole, well, he could have fooled me.

What doesn't make sense, to be honest, is your continuing presence in what you consider to be a shithole. We, the poor and deluded excrement-dwellers, don't know any better - but you? Why are you still here?

Or don't tell me you plan to rescue MetaFilter single-handed from the shithole Matt has allowed it to become? Without as much as a second post?

With the way you keep shitting on the shithole and contributing to the steaming pile, I'm afraid any sensible person's suspicion is that you don't honestly intend to be coming up roses any time soon.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:34 PM on September 28, 2004


That's the Miguel I remember and love.
posted by The God Complex at 5:41 PM on September 28, 2004


I assumed that the Guardian story had some new information (I didn't read it). So, I assumed that this was a NewsElectionFilter post, but that it was as good as any of them. It's not?

I do think that the fact that a good portion of the non-newsfilter posts here previously appeared on monkeyfilter is an indication that metafilter isn't doing the job that it once did. They're a much smaller community. So why are they finding all these good links long before MeFi does? Probably because metafilter has become a mostly news/politics discussion site. That's what it mostly is, now.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:44 PM on September 28, 2004


He did say "The Final Nail." Perhaps we will be blessed by Seth's absence this time!

Seth the Sterile. Works for me.

Our l'il would-be dictator is allowed a free voice for his petty tantruming -- an irony undoubtedly lost on him.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:44 PM on September 28, 2004


It's rare that I'd wish even my most mortal MeFoes to leave, but Seth, here's your hat and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.


Now that that's settled, how about a rousing singalong.
posted by jonmc at 5:46 PM on September 28, 2004


MetaFilter: Seth's new byotch!
posted by billsaysthis at 5:47 PM on September 28, 2004


I just saw on CNN some guy say that once elections are held next January that the terrorists "know the gig is up," as if they're going to just magically disappear because they held an election. Hahahaha.

(that political jab was for Seth, because he secretly loves them).

Everyone enjoy Bush on Dr. Phil tomorrow!
posted by The God Complex at 5:56 PM on September 28, 2004


Godwin's law is a bucket of Hitler's shit.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:57 PM on September 28, 2004


What's that thing they say about the door hitting you on the ass?
posted by LittleMissCranky at 5:59 PM on September 28, 2004


I am fed up with election posts or political posts or whatever you want to call them. They bore the daylights out of me, so I skip them. I find most of them to be shitty posts. Seth does not annoy me. I am in agreement with him up until the blaming of Matt. I rarely say anything about the posts because this argument is stale. No good will come of it because no side cares about what the other side cares about. For chrissakes though, as of now 10 of 22 posts are ElectionPoliFilter. My miniscule rodent mind boggles.

I'm also with EB on this, I lurk over at my beloved MoFi more and more.
posted by sciurus at 6:01 PM on September 28, 2004


Godwin's law is a bucket of Hitler's shit.

Wasn't Hitler a coprophiliac? He may finally be getting his grandest wish.
posted by jonmc at 6:04 PM on September 28, 2004


Seth's a fucking idiot, but seriously, 9 election-related posts so today is pretty overboard.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:10 PM on September 28, 2004


I was going to delete it but assumed there was something new. I just deleted it, but before you pat yourself on the back, I still find your constant whining really annoying Seth.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:15 PM on September 28, 2004


Heh. Miguel gets all stavros on Seth's ass ;-)
posted by i_cola at 6:19 PM on September 28, 2004


Fair enough.
posted by ColdChef at 6:19 PM on September 28, 2004


Metafilter: I still find your constant whining really annoying Seth.
posted by amberglow at 6:26 PM on September 28, 2004


Yeah, he didn't say all 17,000 of us add up to a shithole, just that Matt has made the place a shithole.

Seth, from one anti-newsfilterian to another: you're an asshole.
posted by scarabic at 6:28 PM on September 28, 2004


You're alright, Seth, in an I-REALLY-REALLY-CARE-ABOUT-MEFI-NOT-
GOING-DOWN-THE-TOILET sorta way. You're a little high-strung too, but nothing that cutting down on the coffee wouldn't help.
posted by Shane at 6:37 PM on September 28, 2004


I feel so sorry for Seth, stuck in Matt's shithole. Apparently he would like to not be stuck in a shithole with the rest of us (aka Matt's Shitty Minions), but -- silly boy! -- he just keeps managing to wander back into it, like a puppy or a toddler. Maybe Matt can help Seth out and put a little lock on the shithole door or something, so Seth (who clearly gets lost pretty easily, and obviously needs a helping hand to keep from getting shit all over himself) doesn't keep accidentally falling in here again and again and again and again. Honestly, it would be a favor to poor shithole-hating Seth.
posted by scody at 7:07 PM on September 28, 2004


Mathowie: you just paid a ransom.
posted by dash_slot- at 7:09 PM on September 28, 2004


That'll make him stop...
posted by dash_slot- at 7:10 PM on September 28, 2004


Hey, everyone, let's pile on Seth!!!
posted by trharlan at 7:17 PM on September 28, 2004


gladly! that guy is askin' for it.
posted by mcsweetie at 7:19 PM on September 28, 2004


The only reason I won't pile on Seth is because it would provide him with more of the negative attention he clearly so desperately craves.

Wait. Shit . . .
posted by Ryvar at 7:28 PM on September 28, 2004


It's always so interesting, watching the hive mind at work...
posted by konolia at 7:33 PM on September 28, 2004


the shithole Matt has willingly allowed MeFi to become.

when wasn't mefi a shithole? what day was it before mefi became a shithole? when did it jump the shark? was it august 1st? april 1st? is mefi a different world after 9/11? how many terrorist related posts showed up on that day? was it the nader-filter in the 2000 election? do we have to go back to the tech bubble to find when mefi wasn't a shithole? when were these glory days that have passed us by, point it out to us. yeah, there's too much politics in metafilter, i got tired of it and stopped reading most of it. i use my own personal metafilter to find the best of the web on the best of the web. stop the insanity, get a blog, get a fucking big tv, and go the hell away.
posted by graventy at 7:37 PM on September 28, 2004


*emits a series of obnoxious bodily noises*
posted by quonsar at 7:43 PM on September 28, 2004


Shut up, Seth.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:47 PM on September 28, 2004


It's always so interesting, watching the hive mind at work...

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!
posted by Quartermass at 7:50 PM on September 28, 2004


*emits a series of obnoxious bodily noises*

Hey! Don't hurt the fish!
posted by amberglow at 7:52 PM on September 28, 2004


Brian Fellow: And who are you?

Natalie Logan: I am Natalie Logan and I work for the Parks Department in Galveston, Texas.

Brian: I'm Brian Fellow!

Natalie: I'd like for you to meet Rufus.

Brian: I like your hat, Rufus.

Natalie: Well, thank you. But I'm Natalie, and the squirrel is Rufus.

Brian: I'm Brian Fellow!

Natalie: Hello, Brian Fellow.

Brian: That squirrel looks dirty.

Natalie: It's his coloration. It helps him to blend in with his environment and protects him from animals that hunt squirrels.

Brian: He should use his fuzzy tail as a mustache. Then everyone would think he's a old man.

Natalie: That's an interesting idea.

Brian: I don't need your charity!

Natalie: His tail is very important because it helps him to fly.

Brian: He flies? That's crazy!

Natalie: Well, actually, it's not. That's because he's a flying squirrel.

Brian: Was that squirrel afraid to fly after 9/11?

Natalie: No, I don't think he knew about that.

Brian: It was in all the papers.

Natalie: He's a squirrel. He doesn't read the paper.

Brian: Well, he should because knowledge is the cornerstone of all democracy.
posted by dhoyt at 7:58 PM on September 28, 2004


1) It was a crap post
2) Seth overacted (surpries)
3) everyone else overeacted to Seth's overeaction (surprise surprise)

I do have to agree with the general sentiment thus far given, though. The reason I skipped class last April so that I could be at the computer at noon PST F5ing like a sonnabitch was because the MeFi I lurked at for years was an interesting, fun, irreverent collection of content and people. Looking back, I almost wish I had gone to work.

These types of posts - one news link followed by a paragraph of op/ed - have become the norm, and that kind of sucks. I've been keeping a kind of wait and see attitude, hoping that after the election it will all go away, but I do agree with Seth that this trend - despite the endless Newsfilter callouts, despite the (somewhat inconsistent) deletion on Matt's part - has escalated. I was hoping for a plateau or maybe even a "shut up with the election crap" backlash, but as others have noted, at 9 (nine!) election-related posts today, its only getting worse.

I fear the face of MeFi is changing radically. Sure, you could say "Just don't read politics posts if you don't want," but then pretty soon that means not reading half the site, and then why bother coming back at all? I don' think I'm alone, here.
posted by ChasFile at 7:59 PM on September 28, 2004


Before I join in the pile-on, I offer Seth some advice: If you don't like what you hear from people here, shout back, start a fight, challenge them to defend what the say. Don't just sit there and whine like a little girl. In other words, grow some balls.

Now, into the mongolian cluster fuck!
posted by jonmc at 8:00 PM on September 28, 2004


grow some balls.

Because, as your president has shown us all, balls are more important than brains.

(Hah! Fractal zinger!)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:04 PM on September 28, 2004


a post about nazi funding doesn't violate the law of Godwin

Please note that no thread can violate Godwin's Law unless it is of infinite length, and never invokes a comparison to Nazis.

Also ponder on Miller's Paradox - "As a network evolves, the number of Nazi comparisons not forestalled by citation to Godwin's Law converges to zero" - and think about exactly how many years ago the network reached that point...
posted by majcher at 8:11 PM on September 28, 2004


It's always so interesting, watching the hive mind at work...

Blue is blue the same sort of way Seth is an asshole.

We all recognize blue when we see it, we agree on its qualities, we know what blue is. Its perception is built into us.

In much the same way, it doesn't take a hive mind to recognize Seth's qualities.

I second the motion that Seth be assisted in avoiding this shithole.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:22 PM on September 28, 2004


I don' think I'm alone, here.

You're not, ChasFile, and we're not even outnumbered. But considering that MetaFilter does have a "post" button and no "delete" button, we continue to lose the battle to actually, um, filter anything.

ReWeb! It helps if you just think of this site as ReWeb. It's been on the web before! Now it's on the web, here!

/reclines, hits opium pipe again
posted by scarabic at 8:33 PM on September 28, 2004


I've long been one of the anti-NewsFilter folks here. Oh yes, mostly I just "skipped over them" as is widely recommended rather than taking it up in MeTa (yes, God forbid that people should actually learn that some people find their posts unworthy), but would occasionally register my dissent in MeTa threads that others had started.

Well, no more. The pro-NewsFilter folks have decisively and completely won the debate. I've accepted that my former views will never hold here on MeFi, and will adjust my opinions accordingly. If I see something on the front page of cnn.com tht will generate a lot of discussion, I'll post it. I'll judge the quality of posts purely by the number of comments they receive. I now celebrate our glorious NewsFilter!
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:41 PM on September 28, 2004


Like I've said before, read Seth's comments and posts with the voice of the Simpson's "Comic Book Guy". It makes it all worthwhile, and puts it in the right perspective.
posted by interrobang at 8:58 PM on September 28, 2004


The pro-NewsFilter folks have decisively and completely won the debate. I've accepted that my former views will never hold here on MeFi

This kind of complaint highlights the loss of nuance here, and that's always a problem in a large group of people. If there's a post with a single link to a boring news item followed by a ton of opinion, yeah, it's likely to be a crappy contribution to metafilter.

But that doesn't mean each, every, and all posts that have something to do with current events are crap. I personally posted about the "ban the bible" thing because it is significant: a major political party sent a mass mailing with zero basis in truth. It's not just another story about the podunk daily editorial about why iraq is good/bad/etc.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:58 PM on September 28, 2004


I dunno, I kinda like metafilter the way it is. I've been coming here for several years now, long since before becoming a member, and I don't think it's a shithole at all.

The latest Internet memes ("best of the web" hehe!) can be found on many other sites. I think that niche has been filled. I enjoy this site for the intelligent discussion of relevant issues, political or otherwise.

If I disliked the prevailing environment to the degree that Seth seems to, I would have left this site and forgotten about it long ago.

Of course, since I've joined, I've tended to be a bit of a lurker. Now where's Witty to call me out?
posted by mkdg at 9:00 PM on September 28, 2004


Witty has shit for brains; don't pay any attention to him. Most of us don't.
posted by interrobang at 9:04 PM on September 28, 2004


I personally posted about the "ban the bible" thing because it is significant: a major political party sent a mass mailing with zero basis in truth. It's not just another story about the podunk daily editorial about why iraq is good/bad/etc.

I'm not disputing either of those points. However, at one time, one of the criteria for a good post was "something that most users won't have seen before." I take the post I linked to mean that that no longer applies (something the pro-NewsFilterites have advocated for a long time).
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:13 PM on September 28, 2004


The latest Internet memes ("best of the web" hehe!) can be found on many other sites. I think that niche has been filled. I enjoy this site for the intelligent discussion of relevant issues, political or otherwise.

I tend to agree with you here. But I have admitted that this means I come to MetaFitler for the closed user registration. That's the only reason the discussion of news items is as "intelligent" as it is. Other sites have news headlines and comments, but they get flooded with shit and the smart folks leave. We don't have that problem as much because most people can't post. Let's just admit this once and for all.
posted by scarabic at 9:33 PM on September 28, 2004


Clearly it doesn't apply. This seems to be part of the whole "anyone but Bush, by any means possible" spirit that is pervading so much of this election.

Link to Kos? Go for it!
Link to CNN? Sure!

This is Matt's place, and I support him doing whatever the hell he wants with it - and if that means turning it into a Kos and DU RSS aggregator so be it.

But let's not pretend it hasn't changed - 'cause it has. Be men, be up front about it and say "we are using MeFi as our anti-Bush political pulpit and we're proud of it!"
posted by soulhuntre at 9:36 PM on September 28, 2004


Matt, I think you need to admit that there's a trend toward MeFi being a current events and issues discussion site. A whole bunch of people come here for that. That's what they like. More and more they are defining the site. I honestly think we're approaching a point of no return, here.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:38 PM on September 28, 2004


Witty has shit for brains; don't pay any attention to him. Most of us don't.

I agree, and although I know it's so far in the past that I shouldn't even bring it up (besides the fact that it's somewhat off-topic) that type of attack has a chilling effect on new posters. I know it did for me.

Back on-topic, I don't think that those types of posts will be gone once the U.S. election is over. I don't think you can separate metafilter from politics. Ever. It's one of those things that people care about. a lot. Enough to risk the wrath of a random stranger on a weblog. It affects people's lives, whether the events be in the past or the present. Sorry!

/on preview
scarabic: agreed. I've witnessed what has happened to kuro5hin over the last couple years, I can barely bear to go there anymore, it's become a troll-fest.
posted by mkdg at 9:42 PM on September 28, 2004


EB: you approach a point of no return every time you walk out your door in the morning.
posted by mkdg at 9:49 PM on September 28, 2004


Fucking deep, man. Pass the bong.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:02 PM on September 28, 2004


That's the only reason the discussion of news items is as "intelligent" as it is.

Where is this "intelligent" discussion you speak of? Discussion seems to convey a coming together of different ideas along with the give and take of beliefs and opinions.

That's not what you get in the political/news threads. Nothing wrong with the site leaning far left, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking any real "discussion" is going on here (for the most part).
posted by justgary at 10:04 PM on September 28, 2004


"...site leaning far left"

'Far left', my friend, is fold_and_mutiliate and leftward. Not the moderate leftward tilt of MetaFilter.

And you could have a near unanimity of leftist perspective in a MeFi thread and still have discussion that's a lot better than what we typically see. Good discussion is productive, the people involved with it have an honest desire to accomplish something that the majority is likely to feel was worthwhile. Discussion on the net, moreso than in real life, is usually much less productive because here the primary motivation of most participants is about broadcasting their opinion, or, if they're interactive, ridiculing or "beating" someone else.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:16 PM on September 28, 2004


SHUT UP.
posted by quonsar at 10:18 PM on September 28, 2004


/EB: it's cashed, man, you load it and it's on like Donkey Kong...

I guess what I should have said is that the trend, if it's happening, is an evolutionary, not a revolutionary process. Where's the point of no return?
posted by mkdg at 10:25 PM on September 28, 2004


This is the same bunch of people complaining again about news posts in another guise. I hadn't known that Bush's Grand-dad did business with the Nazis. And that's kind of interesting, don't you think? If Kerry's Grandfather did the same that would interesting too.

You claim this site has an agenda, but you're the ones with the agenda - the complaining, the whining, the needling. I feel I can engage people in discussion here, and that's why I am come here often. Obviously you feel the same or you wouldn't here either, despite what you say.

You think you can repeat over and over and over again that everyone here is rabid liberal gunning for Bush. And maybe if you keep repeating it over and over again we'll believe you a little, but up to now I still don't. I think you're full of it. It's your way of poisoning a conversation you would rather see not happen than be a part of.
posted by xammerboy at 10:25 PM on September 28, 2004


'Far left', my friend, is fold_and_mutiliate and leftward. Not the moderate leftward tilt of MetaFilter.

Well, your idea of far left is probably different than mine. I consider myself moderate, yet the discussions here often leave me feeling far right. Labels are not absolute.

Still, I meant more in a sense of quantity than quality. Look at the mefi contribution index. A high majority at least lean left. Again, which is fine. No one is forcing those who lean right to stay silent, and there's been no recruitment of the left.

But we'll just agree to disagree when it comes to intelligent discussion on politics. True, the majority of posters being of the same mind doesn't necessarily preclude productive conversation, but I'd take any bet that 90 percent of political conversation here is the same rhetorical comments and over used cliches used over and over again. Maybe I'm missing all these great political discussions (I'm not here that often), but I doubt it.
posted by justgary at 10:28 PM on September 28, 2004


Xammerboy, I don't really see the partisan conservatives heavily represented in this thread. You might consider the possibility that there's leftist anti-newsfilter folks, too.

On preview: justgary—no, I agree that the political discussions here are not that great. I agree with others, though, who point out that it's better than average for the net. But that's not saying much. And, honestly, using the US political spectrum as the norm, MeFi is between moderate-liberal to liberal. Definitely not far left. Again, look at f_&_m posts for something closer to far left. For comparison's sake, I don't think we have any far right (again, by US norms) folks here at all. A few of the conservatives here are maybe somewhat to the right of the average American conservative, but not much and maybe not at all.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:35 PM on September 28, 2004


I take the post I linked to mean that that no longer applies

Go back five years into the archives, and you'll find plenty of wacky or significant news items posted.

I agree things are slipping in quality lately, and there are perhaps a bit too many posts about news items (personally, I find the daily lefty sky-is-falling posts from the same 2 or 3 people most annoying about this site currently), but I do believe my post was different enough from standard election news and something I've always posted here.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:07 PM on September 28, 2004


I agree things are slipping in quality lately, and there are perhaps a bit too many posts about news items (personally, I find the daily lefty sky-is-falling posts from the same 2 or 3 people most annoying about this site currently

[applause]

Please act on the sentiment, Matt, you're the only one who can. The hard to find, obscure, offbeat news items are great. "Best of the Web" in that sense means: you never woulda seen this if it wasn't for the web - and isn't that one of the best things about the web? Lots of local, regional, or page-9 news stories fit into that category.

It's the major media headline stories, which anyone can easily find, that bloat this joint.
posted by scarabic at 11:30 PM on September 28, 2004


Matt, I think you need to admit that there's a trend toward MeFi being a current events and issues discussion site.

My 3rd anniversary was September 19th, I just remembered. Below are the posts of that day. We are living during interesting times.

YA Guardian Opinion Piece
The Christian Guide to Small Arms
Guardsman Charged in Five Bomb Threats
The Washington Post calls it "An Attack on the World."
And the award for the dumbass of the year goes to....
The only "war" I can think of in U.S. history anything like the present situation is the U.S. Navy's war on Caribbean piracy (1814-1825)
An Archived New Yorker Article about the capabilities and limitations of the American intelligence apparatus
Doing what I can. Cities across the nation are sold out of United States flags.
A German composer describes the WTC bombings as "the greatest work of art one can imagine."
Northeast could face energy chaos, MIT expert warns
Patriotic Voting?
Interesting intelligence report points possible responsibility to terrorists other than bin Laden...
Highlights of President Musharraf of Pakistan's Speech To The Nation
Why America would lose a ground war.
Internet Domain Names May Have Warned of Attacks
Bill Maher calls U.S. cowardly; FedEx pulls ads from show It
Internet audio for providing the background noise for your web surfing.
Mom Dashes 900 Miles to Deliver Forgotten GameBoy
Israel is not the real issue the
America: A Tribute To Heroes Special
Gay, lesbian troops can serve openly -- for now "
Interesting News Out of Pakistan: Whales Lived on Land
Egyptian plane crashes and U.S. says pilot a suicide
Operation Infinite Justice?
How To Launder Money
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel says he is convening his security cabinet on Thursday after Palestinian gunmen shot dead an Israeli woman near the West Bank town of Bethlehem earlier in the day
Holt Magazine is featuring an interview and some background on Tamin Ansary, the person who penned the Letter from an Afghani American.
Hellooooo internment camps!!
How life changed from the view of several photographers.
Uhm, Is Everything All Right?
For the rest of us, here's an up-and-coming artist ...like an american version of anime
Way of life ending for NASCAR fans as coolers banned from racetracks.
Racist America voices its concerns in a new poll
I know this much is true...
American Flag Display Quiz
weekend alert as FBI warns of new attack

posted by y2karl at 11:39 PM on September 28, 2004


mkdg - How you can label that comment I made a "call out" I will never understand. It was simply an observation... a reasonable one at that, considering the circumstances. It was an observation that spanned several threads from that day, which isn't noted in your little unnecessary mention of it here. "Chilling effect"? Please... poor baby.

interrobang - Was that necessary?

What the fuck do I have to do with this thread anyway?
posted by Witty at 2:20 AM on September 29, 2004


Matt: A personal e-mail to any poster would probably save you a lot of clearing up/headaches from compliants.

Crap posts are crap posts are crap posts. They tend to be news-related becuse news is the most common web subject posted here.

If those who rail against 'NewsFilter' actually chose their battles & went for some kind of quality control rather than the stock 'I hate news, the site is going to the dogs blah, blah' they'd get a lot more support and it would actually help improve the site.

At the moment it's just a lot of pissy venting.
posted by i_cola at 4:08 AM on September 29, 2004


Pissy Venting. I think she was one of the Bond girls...
posted by i_cola at 4:09 AM on September 29, 2004


It rings a bell. Are you sure she wasn't called Venting Galore?
posted by taz at 5:08 AM on September 29, 2004


Nah, it was OctoPissy.
posted by amberglow at 5:24 AM on September 29, 2004


I'm getting a very unwelcome mental picture of the several thousand of us MeFites dressed up like Bond girls [puts on frosted orange lipstick, backcombs feathers, struts].
posted by orange swan at 5:29 AM on September 29, 2004


mmm, Mummers
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 6:10 AM on September 29, 2004


Miguel: In all the times we have clashed on MetaTalk, I would like to thank you for never comparing me to Cliff Barnes on Dallas, a crushing blow from which I would not have recovered. I like to think I'm more of a Ray Krebs.

It's an interesting and important story. The this-may-influence-the-election angle is really unfortunate, but it can be ignored.

If you're going to make the argument that this place is turning into a sethhole, the Prescott Bush post is a bad example. It's a little-publicized historical curiosity, not something that has even a scintilla of a chance to influence anyone's vote.

Surely there can't be a single person among the 17,000 on MetaFilter who will now be voting against President Bush because his granddad had a closet full of brown shirts.
posted by rcade at 6:22 AM on September 29, 2004


They say there are no great fortunes made without some crime, and I am inclined to believe that is generally the case.
posted by orange swan at 6:45 AM on September 29, 2004


Go back five years into the archives, and you'll find plenty of wacky or significant news items posted.

In the past, I've avoided posting things I've found on Obscure Store on the "most people have already seen it" grounds, even when I thought it would make a good post in all other respects. Presumably, then, I was mistaken about the guidelines, and will consider these fair game in the future.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:49 AM on September 29, 2004


1. Best of the web sometimes includes current events. I find I can deal, even on news-heavy days.

2. While Witty and I have not, to my knowledge, agreed on anything of import, ever, he's been stepping out of dogma and into discourse more often lately, and frankly I'd like to encourage that.

3. Surely there can't be a single person among the 17,000 on MetaFilter who will now be voting against President Bush because his granddad had a closet full of brown shirts.

rcade, I thought we were saving that argument until they change the rules so Schwartzenegger becomes eligible to run in, oh, 2012.
posted by chicobangs at 8:07 AM on September 29, 2004


I adopted a kitty last week.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:18 AM on September 29, 2004


Pissycat?
posted by taz at 8:43 AM on September 29, 2004


Cliff Barnes has lent his name to a pub in Stockholm. They have portraits of famous losers on the walls.
I used to go there once. Now I don't go out at all.
posted by mr.marx at 9:21 AM on September 29, 2004


When people think of Sweden, I think they have the wrong idea
Like Cliff Richards, who thought it was just porn and gonorrhea
And Lou Reed said in the film Blue in the Face
That compared to New York City, Sweden was a scary place

—Jens Lekman
posted by dhoyt at 10:43 AM on September 29, 2004


HOLY SHIT! It's the FINAL NAIL, people!

We've forsaken this for far too long. If we make one more political post, Seth will...

Oh. That's right. Seth won't do a fucking thing.

I can't wait for November 2nd either, since it means Seth will stop showing up and complaining about how he hates MetaFilter, as encompasses roughly 95% of his contributions to it.

Seriously, is there anyone here who actually believes Seth is going to start posting once the election is over? Do people really think that after a year of shitting on the carpet, it'll be rolled out for them when they decide they want to be considered useful?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 12:11 PM on September 29, 2004


The longer Seth complains, the higher his user number will get at whatever site he eventually makes his new home, and the less inclined they'll be to listen to his pissing once he's there...

..hey! actually, this may be accomplishing something!

So Seth. Tell me more, buddy. The man makes sense!
posted by scarabic at 6:04 PM on September 29, 2004


no, not really! shh! he'll hear you!
posted by scarabic at 6:05 PM on September 29, 2004


I don't really think Seth is that bad. He's not all over the site every day posting annoying things. And even his MeTa complaints are relatively mild-mannered and rational. (Relative, I guess, in the context of people complaining.) He's like a not-that-loud buzzer—not even a buzzer, maybe even perhaps a 1K tone—that never stops. It's that last bit that I think makes people upset. If he did other things, contributed to MeFi in other ways, it'd dilute his warning-tone nature. But that's pretty much all there is.

Anyway, I just sorta feel bad that Seth gets piled on so badly given that every day there's a bazillion individual examples of other people's behavior that are, individually, more annoying or offensive. And he actually makes rational arguments. He rarely calls anyone names.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:11 PM on September 29, 2004


The problem with Seth is that he's a vampire: he takes and takes, and returns nothing. He doesn't contribute links. He doesn't contribute interesting discussion. He doesn't contribute neat pony requests. The only thing he does is complain about his host, who is too polite or too daft to kill his account.

And that's why he gets piled upon.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:39 PM on September 29, 2004


in your little unnecessary mention of it here

Witty, you're right, it was unnecessary. Sorry!
posted by mkdg at 10:22 PM on September 29, 2004


From a comment by Ignatius J. Reilly in a Sethfest past:

...seth is absolutely remarkable in that he contributes absolutely nothing to the site except for negative comments, and to see him taken seriously and to see his words given more weight than those of people who have poured real creative energy into Metafilter just kind of ruins the whole experience. He thinks that he is batting against people with "agendas," but no one has made as many comments and posts here about one single thing as seth. That's what I call an agenda.

If the "community" in "community weblog" is Topeka, seth is Fred Phelps. He screams and pickets outside of every thread which contains political viewpoints with which he disagrees, in an attempt to simply drive people away, and then he dresses it up as concern for a site to which he has never made any contribution at all. In truth, that's a little bit more than the straw that broke the camel's back. It's just that Metafilter turned into a site where people go to discuss how seth feels about things, and that's not a very interesting theme for a website, I'm afraid.


MetaFilter: If the "community" in "community weblog"
   is Topeka, seth is Fred Phelps

posted by y2karl at 11:20 PM on September 29, 2004


I don't really think Seth is that bad...

Now why doesn't that surpise me?
posted by i_cola at 4:55 AM on September 30, 2004


MetaFilter: The Site Where People Go To Discuss How seth Feels About Things

genius
posted by matteo at 5:09 AM on September 30, 2004


Miguel: In all the times we have clashed on MetaTalk, I would like to thank you for never comparing me to Cliff Barnes on Dallas, a crushing blow from which I would not have recovered. I like to think I'm more of a Ray Krebs.


oh yeah, I almost forgot:

If you were a "Dallas" character, who would you be?

me - Mark Graison
posted by matteo at 5:20 AM on September 30, 2004


"I agree things are slipping in quality lately, and there are perhaps a bit too many posts about news items (personally, I find the daily lefty sky-is-falling posts from the same 2 or 3 people most annoying about this site currently), but I do believe my post was different enough from standard election news and something I've always posted here."

As the only person whose opinion on this stuff really counts is Matt's I for one find it really, really cool he noticed the trend.

I'll second the "act on it" request.
posted by soulhuntre at 5:26 AM on September 30, 2004


From the thread spawned by Seth's post to the blue:

Seth, keep posting.
posted by loquax at 2:11 PM PST on June 16


He is loquax, he is...
posted by juiceCake at 12:04 PM on September 30, 2004


So, any bets on how long before we see Seth post the next final nail?

Looking outside, I'm thinking it might coincide with teh next full moon.
posted by john at 6:04 PM on September 30, 2004


Fact : George W. Bush's grandfather was an enthusiastic advocate for eugenics - as were some on the US left at the time as well but, further, Prescott's association with the Nazis extends back to the early 1930's, and he played a significant role in helping orchestrate the financing which built the Nazi war machine. Later, after the US had entered WW2, Prescott Bush illegally laundered German arms industry profits and, after the war, received a small fortune as - apparently - a payback for these efforts. This money - tied by the way quite explictly to Holocaust slave-labor profits by John Loftus - represented a significant part of the Bush fortune and helped to found the Bush political dynasty.

Fact : George Bush Senior employed political advisors and operatives, during his first presidential campaign, who had Nazi and neo-Nazi backgrounds (he fired them when the story came out), and was closely associated with the Dulles brothers who both worked with Prescott Bush in the laundering of Nazi war profits during WW2 and, later, arranged for the illegal entry into the US, of Nazi war criminals (Operation Paperclip). So, the Nazi association does NOT stop with Prescott - Far from it.

Fact : George W. Bush cited the ideology of the Manhattan Institute - which has been central to the advancement of the resurgent US Eugenics movement - as perhaps his most significant intellectual influence.

Does this make GW a Nazi ? - Not necessarily, but he exhibits the one, true core of all fascistic ideologies : he will do and say anything to get and retain power.

If anyone wants sources on these facts , please email me.

____________


That said, Hoder's post might have been redundant.

Plus, there's better material out there. The Guardian piece was a bit sleazy for the way it dissed the treatment of this issue on the Net while not citing any actual stories or sources. There are plenty of wacky conspiracy cites on the Net, but the Prescott Bush conspiracy - which some have dubbed "The Hilter Project" - was quite real, and anyone who denies this betrays a complete ignorance of the emerging history of the subject which - I might add - has developed mostly on (and through) the Net.

Just saying.

But, this whole subject is viewed by many as third rail stuff which - I imagine - is part of the reason Matt axed the thread. The other part of his reasoning (the better part, in my mind) likely has to do with the essential redundancy of the post.

It may not have been the same link to the story I posted about a year and a half ago, but it's basically the same.
posted by troutfishing at 8:16 AM on October 1, 2004


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