How not to respond in a thread. November 10, 2004 11:43 AM Subscribe
How not to respond in a thread. I don't like callouts, and I'm not calling anyone out. I was inspired by the good discussions in the green and I believe this thread highlights how Metafilter can be improved. In it so far, we have a throwaway irrelevant "I'm an atheist, this does not apply to me" comment, we have a non sequitur comment, an "I agree" without any backup, and a purely reaction provoking comment of whether God has a penis and can take dumps (I do understand the point being made). Basically, we can do better. I'm far from perfect and probably have a lot of throwaway comments to my name -- but could we all try a little harder to think before we comment?
Geoff,
The problem with the closed membership is that you have people jockeying to fit some preconcieved standard. You don't have people discussing articles or sharing interesting things. You have people posturing and preaching to the choir. So, in every religious related thread, you will have the person who feels compelled to show their atheist credentials. You will have people in the choir who want to say "me too." You will have people performing by trying to be abrasive to get applause from the choir. And all of these happen when you have agenda-driven people like karl who want to get on their soapbox all the time.
The signal to noise ration becomes out of whack, and you have people who want to turn this into an echo chamber. The only ways out of this is to have moderation with a heavy hand and enforce some standards. And then, you can open up registrations and maybe people with different ideas would be willing to join. As it is right now, why would a Christian reader or Muslim reader want to join this site when they know they will only be subjected to ridicule by someone who tries to push the agenda?
posted by Seth at 11:54 AM on November 10, 2004
The problem with the closed membership is that you have people jockeying to fit some preconcieved standard. You don't have people discussing articles or sharing interesting things. You have people posturing and preaching to the choir. So, in every religious related thread, you will have the person who feels compelled to show their atheist credentials. You will have people in the choir who want to say "me too." You will have people performing by trying to be abrasive to get applause from the choir. And all of these happen when you have agenda-driven people like karl who want to get on their soapbox all the time.
The signal to noise ration becomes out of whack, and you have people who want to turn this into an echo chamber. The only ways out of this is to have moderation with a heavy hand and enforce some standards. And then, you can open up registrations and maybe people with different ideas would be willing to join. As it is right now, why would a Christian reader or Muslim reader want to join this site when they know they will only be subjected to ridicule by someone who tries to push the agenda?
posted by Seth at 11:54 AM on November 10, 2004
For what it is worth, my comments are limited specifically to the thread referenced in this MeTa post, but rather a general course of behavior. Although, that post does seem to be a bit of a microcosm.
posted by Seth at 11:58 AM on November 10, 2004
posted by Seth at 11:58 AM on November 10, 2004
Everyone's trying to out joke one another. Look to the "discussion" on the global warming thread for more attempts at yuck yucks.
I believe having a few people that are always here trying to make a wisecrack has lead to the state of things today.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:12 PM on November 10, 2004
I believe having a few people that are always here trying to make a wisecrack has lead to the state of things today.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:12 PM on November 10, 2004
Oh, please. It was, as y2karl admits, a fanciful bit of fluff, the sort of commentary that often calls for some good-hearted shenanigans. It's the kind of jokey one-off you see in every thread on metafilter. I mean, really, we're not talking about some well-researched matteo-esque link to the life of some obscure italian filmmaker. It's just a bit of what-if pleasure reading for your Wednesday afternoon.
You people are so uptight!
posted by The God Complex at 12:13 PM on November 10, 2004
You people are so uptight!
posted by The God Complex at 12:13 PM on November 10, 2004
Everyone's trying to out joke one another. Look to the "discussion" on the global warming thread for more attempts at yuck yucks.
I believe having a few people that are always here trying to make a wisecrack has lead to the state of things today.
I think you have a point, but I also think that these things are inevitable given that there are a lot of semi-serious or lighthearted threads on metafilter. In addition, there are threads, such as the global warming thread, that have been discussed so many times that there are going to be times when people go off on a tangent. It's hardly the end of the world or really all that distracting, given that there are enough serious threads on metafilter as it is. Isn't one of the chief complaints that people are too serious and fight with each other all the time? And now you're complaining that people are joking too much ;)
That said, I prefer it when people keep their jokes somewhat topical and at least tangentially related to the subject. In the case of mcsweetie, I think he did exactly that.
posted by The God Complex at 12:16 PM on November 10, 2004
I believe having a few people that are always here trying to make a wisecrack has lead to the state of things today.
I think you have a point, but I also think that these things are inevitable given that there are a lot of semi-serious or lighthearted threads on metafilter. In addition, there are threads, such as the global warming thread, that have been discussed so many times that there are going to be times when people go off on a tangent. It's hardly the end of the world or really all that distracting, given that there are enough serious threads on metafilter as it is. Isn't one of the chief complaints that people are too serious and fight with each other all the time? And now you're complaining that people are joking too much ;)
That said, I prefer it when people keep their jokes somewhat topical and at least tangentially related to the subject. In the case of mcsweetie, I think he did exactly that.
posted by The God Complex at 12:16 PM on November 10, 2004
I believe having a few people that are always here trying to make a wisecrack has lead to the state of things today.
Reminds me of an old episode of Cheers (Thanksgiving?) where Frasier gets in trouble with his wife because he is engaging in some banter with the rest of the bar flys, and somehow insults her. His reply is something like "You know the competition to be witty around here, Lilth."
Something like that.
On a somewhat related note, I am happy to see Matt pulling fewer punches since last Tuesday. Speaking his mind more often than being diplomatic.
posted by terrapin at 12:23 PM on November 10, 2004
Reminds me of an old episode of Cheers (Thanksgiving?) where Frasier gets in trouble with his wife because he is engaging in some banter with the rest of the bar flys, and somehow insults her. His reply is something like "You know the competition to be witty around here, Lilth."
Something like that.
On a somewhat related note, I am happy to see Matt pulling fewer punches since last Tuesday. Speaking his mind more often than being diplomatic.
posted by terrapin at 12:23 PM on November 10, 2004
The problem isn't people that make wisecracks (which would be... me), it's the people who try that suck at it (me again!).
posted by Stan Chin at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by Stan Chin at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2004
The problem with the closed membership is that you have people jockeying to fit some preconcieved standard. You don't have people discussing articles or sharing interesting things. You have people posturing and preaching to the choir. So, in every religious related thread, you will have the person who feels compelled to show their atheist credentials. You will have people in the choir who want to say "me too." You will have people performing by trying to be abrasive to get applause from the choir. And all of these happen when you have agenda-driven people like karl who want to get on their soapbox all the time.
Good post Seth.
And to prove the point, I can practically visualise the Seth-bashing comments that always ensues once he's posted.
posted by SpaceCadet at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2004
Good post Seth.
And to prove the point, I can practically visualise the Seth-bashing comments that always ensues once he's posted.
posted by SpaceCadet at 12:37 PM on November 10, 2004
I still prefer the wisecracks to the verbal knuckle-rappings or outright insults from Seth.
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36575#758076
" You can't possibly be this fucking stupid....."
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36862#766910
Wherein Seth lets us know that MeFites make him "sick to [his] stomach." That we are "pathetic" and "raving" and "don't care about ruining the country..." Be sure no to miss where people who disagree with him are "stupid" and/or "moron[s]" But at least he is consistent, because both sides of the election debate are "[p]athetic whiners [or] gloaters [who] should be ashamed of themselves." The whiners being "fuckers" too. Leaving us with a warning that if we keep it up we "will ensure that Metafilter won't be around in any recognizable form in 2008."
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36741#763121
"amberglow, you are just becoming increasingly pathetic. Get over it."
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36741#763141
Where we are reminded again of Seth's superiority at simply moving on when things don't go one's way.
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36542#757578
"Metafilter: Plumbing the depths of pathetic net conspiracy theories with great gusto."
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36730#763144
Where we learn that even in posts Seth likes he has to still point out how the rest of the site sucks.
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/36571#758088
Another post Seth likes where he is compelled to remind folks that the site is his.
"Although, I really think it was rude of you to clutter my KosChurn Lefty LGF/Freep Metafilter front page with your interesting and fun link. Don't you know the goal of this site?"
Welcome back Seth. We missed your wisdom and leadership. I don't know how I get through life without your constant pep talks.
By the way, there are other synonyms for "pathetic" Seth, and some are even free and found online.
posted by terrapin at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2004
" You can't possibly be this fucking stupid....."
Wherein Seth lets us know that MeFites make him "sick to [his] stomach." That we are "pathetic" and "raving" and "don't care about ruining the country..." Be sure no to miss where people who disagree with him are "stupid" and/or "moron[s]" But at least he is consistent, because both sides of the election debate are "[p]athetic whiners [or] gloaters [who] should be ashamed of themselves." The whiners being "fuckers" too. Leaving us with a warning that if we keep it up we "will ensure that Metafilter won't be around in any recognizable form in 2008."
"amberglow, you are just becoming increasingly pathetic. Get over it."
Where we are reminded again of Seth's superiority at simply moving on when things don't go one's way.
"Metafilter: Plumbing the depths of pathetic net conspiracy theories with great gusto."
Where we learn that even in posts Seth likes he has to still point out how the rest of the site sucks.
Another post Seth likes where he is compelled to remind folks that the site is his.
"Although, I really think it was rude of you to clutter my KosChurn Lefty LGF/Freep Metafilter front page with your interesting and fun link. Don't you know the goal of this site?"
Welcome back Seth. We missed your wisdom and leadership. I don't know how I get through life without your constant pep talks.
By the way, there are other synonyms for "pathetic" Seth, and some are even free and found online.
posted by terrapin at 12:49 PM on November 10, 2004
terrapin: How much of your life was used up finding links where Seth bad-mouted people on MetaFilter and then composing a comment about it?
jeeezus.
posted by xmutex at 12:56 PM on November 10, 2004
jeeezus.
posted by xmutex at 12:56 PM on November 10, 2004
Dear Seth:
Go fuck yourself.
Love, Marc.
Happy now, SpaceCadet?
posted by majcher at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2004
Go fuck yourself.
Love, Marc.
Happy now, SpaceCadet?
posted by majcher at 1:00 PM on November 10, 2004
Sarcasm is ok, but users such as quonsar and witty do nothing but litter discussion with off topic, juvenile droll.
Why not go to fucking Fark, where your views will be better represented?
posted by four panels at 1:05 PM on November 10, 2004
Why not go to fucking Fark, where your views will be better represented?
posted by four panels at 1:05 PM on November 10, 2004
Before that last comment causes people to have fits, lets try to stay on topic here. geoff made a good point and it was substantiated by matt. Now if you have a critique of that, then by all means, assert it. But if your only goal is to spar with me, then you need a new hobby.
posted by Seth at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by Seth at 1:06 PM on November 10, 2004
Seth:
Stop acting like it is your site and I (and many others) will stop reminding you that is not. If you want polite discourse then it has to be a two-way street. If YOU don't like constantly being reminded that you are being a self-righeous, hypocritical asshat, then perhaps YOU should stop being one.
xmutex:
It took no time at all as all I did was review the last 5 or 6 of Seth's comments. Hell, if I had more than 5 minutes I could have choken this site with examples.
posted by terrapin at 1:12 PM on November 10, 2004
Stop acting like it is your site and I (and many others) will stop reminding you that is not. If you want polite discourse then it has to be a two-way street. If YOU don't like constantly being reminded that you are being a self-righeous, hypocritical asshat, then perhaps YOU should stop being one.
xmutex:
It took no time at all as all I did was review the last 5 or 6 of Seth's comments. Hell, if I had more than 5 minutes I could have choken this site with examples.
posted by terrapin at 1:12 PM on November 10, 2004
terrapin, I did try the polite discourse, and people did nothing but attacked me and called me names. Thus, the "when in Rome comment."
posted by Seth at 1:34 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by Seth at 1:34 PM on November 10, 2004
But that is besides the point, because you didn't say whether you have a problem with what I said originally. You only seem to have a problem with me. That sort of attitude fits in squarely with the subject of this post.
posted by Seth at 1:35 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by Seth at 1:35 PM on November 10, 2004
terrapin, I did try the polite discourse, and people did nothing but attacked me and called me names. Thus, the "when in Rome comment."
No, Seth. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to, by your own admission, sink to the low level of discourse, you don't get to act all high and mighty later.
posted by mkultra at 1:40 PM on November 10, 2004
No, Seth. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to, by your own admission, sink to the low level of discourse, you don't get to act all high and mighty later.
posted by mkultra at 1:40 PM on November 10, 2004
Ok, thanks mkultra. Now did you have any comment about the topic at hand, or did you just want to try to pick a fight with me?
posted by Seth at 1:48 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by Seth at 1:48 PM on November 10, 2004
FFS, Seth, quit crying like a little baby. Every post you make to the Blue lately contains some kind of crappy snark, even when you're praising a post. Your "don't pick on me" whining rings so fucking hollow.
posted by mkultra at 1:57 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by mkultra at 1:57 PM on November 10, 2004
Ok, thanks mkultra.
Sure. How about the fact that you used the same argument you always used, right down to y2karl having an agenda, despite the fact that this thread had nothing to do with agendas or politics, only people joking around too much. You've succeeded, once again, in creating a metatalk thread about your own personal gripes with metafilter.
I think it's cute, especially since y2karl explicitely noted that he is very open to ideas of spirituality within the thread, suggesting that there was anything but some devious atheist agenda at play, or that there's an echo chamber (you like that one a lot, huh?). Someone making a joke about being an atheist is hardly the end of the world, especially if they don't belittle anyone else while doing so. They can also do it without sullying y2karl's good name, especially when he doesn't even seem to hold their position, something you seem woefully incapable of understanding due to your anti-y2karl agena.
Your agenda has been hashed out more times than I care to remember. At least have the decency not to derail other threads in so we can talk about you. Start your own (again) and we can try to ignore it.
posted by The God Complex at 2:01 PM on November 10, 2004
You people are so uptight!
Maybe they just want to go poop.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:50 PM on November 10, 2004
Maybe they just want to go poop.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:50 PM on November 10, 2004
The problem isn't people that make wisecracks (which would be... me), it's the people who try that suck at it (me again!).
*joins the club*
(Which is deliciously meta, because it's a not-very-amusing wisecrack about making not-very-amusing wisecracks, right?)
For what it's worth, I'd rather read an interesting, engaged discussion about difficult topics than a bunch of one-liners most days, but there are some days I just want to bring the comedy, and y'all can be some funny bastards.
As in all things, balance and moderation are the key.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:21 PM on November 10, 2004
*joins the club*
(Which is deliciously meta, because it's a not-very-amusing wisecrack about making not-very-amusing wisecracks, right?)
For what it's worth, I'd rather read an interesting, engaged discussion about difficult topics than a bunch of one-liners most days, but there are some days I just want to bring the comedy, and y'all can be some funny bastards.
As in all things, balance and moderation are the key.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:21 PM on November 10, 2004
And all of these happen when you have agenda-driven people like karl who want to get on their soapbox all the time.
...You only seem to have a problem with me.
Seth is such a little hypocritical prick, making personal attacks and then whining about personal attacks.
Otherwise, what the wonderchicken said.
posted by y2karl at 3:34 PM on November 10, 2004
...You only seem to have a problem with me.
Seth is such a little hypocritical prick, making personal attacks and then whining about personal attacks.
Otherwise, what the wonderchicken said.
posted by y2karl at 3:34 PM on November 10, 2004
For what it's worth, I'd rather read an interesting, engaged discussion about difficult topics than a bunch of one-liners most days, but there are some days I just want to bring the comedy, and y'all can be some funny bastards.
Word. Some of the "we know this is about to be locked" runs are among the best I've ever read.
posted by mkultra at 3:40 PM on November 10, 2004
Word. Some of the "we know this is about to be locked" runs are among the best I've ever read.
posted by mkultra at 3:40 PM on November 10, 2004
Seth, as I've posted about Marian Miracles, Gnosticism, the historical Jesus, the Kabbalist Joseph Smith and Root Beer, too, tell me--what exactly is my agenda as reflected in that post ?
People here are in a fighting mood since the election. I am not. Except now, when you drag in your little stalker vendetta into all this. You don't care about this site one bit--all you want to do is attack people you don't like. You are pathetic.
posted by y2karl at 4:00 PM on November 10, 2004
People here are in a fighting mood since the election. I am not. Except now, when you drag in your little stalker vendetta into all this. You don't care about this site one bit--all you want to do is attack people you don't like. You are pathetic.
posted by y2karl at 4:00 PM on November 10, 2004
terrapin: How much of your life was used up finding links where Seth bad-mouted people on MetaFilter and then composing a comment about it?
Oh, come on. Going through a person's posting history over recent weeks can be done inside of a few minutes. I personally kinda enjoy it when people post stuff like what terrapin did. In a car wreck kinda way.
posted by adampsyche at 4:20 PM on November 10, 2004
Oh, come on. Going through a person's posting history over recent weeks can be done inside of a few minutes. I personally kinda enjoy it when people post stuff like what terrapin did. In a car wreck kinda way.
posted by adampsyche at 4:20 PM on November 10, 2004
y2karl, would you please stop defending yourself? that's clearly my job and you're the last person i need defending y2karl.
wait.
nevermind.
(had to do my part to be a stan chin)
posted by The God Complex at 4:28 PM on November 10, 2004
wait.
nevermind.
(had to do my part to be a stan chin)
posted by The God Complex at 4:28 PM on November 10, 2004
Seth, I am a reformed potty mouther. I would rise to take the bait of nearly every troll on MeFi.
On election night, quonsar and I went at it a little bit and I took it to MeTa wherein I was sarcaustically (yes, that is the word I want to use, sarcastic and caustic) called out for being the kettle or the pot or whatever.
I've since made a conscious effort to elevate my comments and to not slip down into that nice warm muck of Battlefield MeFi. And you know what? I find myself enjoying MeFi alot more again.
In short, I'm trying to change myself to help bring out about change on MeFi. The more people that step up and step out of the bashing threads, the better MeFi will be.
Do your part and rise up too.
Or, if you like that muck, here are some alternatives for pathetic just so you can mix it up some.
posted by fenriq at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2004
On election night, quonsar and I went at it a little bit and I took it to MeTa wherein I was sarcaustically (yes, that is the word I want to use, sarcastic and caustic) called out for being the kettle or the pot or whatever.
I've since made a conscious effort to elevate my comments and to not slip down into that nice warm muck of Battlefield MeFi. And you know what? I find myself enjoying MeFi alot more again.
In short, I'm trying to change myself to help bring out about change on MeFi. The more people that step up and step out of the bashing threads, the better MeFi will be.
Do your part and rise up too.
Or, if you like that muck, here are some alternatives for pathetic just so you can mix it up some.
posted by fenriq at 4:56 PM on November 10, 2004
For a fact, after checking back in that thread, I see a fairly thoughtful, respectful and interesting discussion has ensued. All that jocularity and food for thought, too, prompted by a unbearably light little exercise in style. Which, venting apart, makes this whole little hair up a gnat's ass post here even more pointless. Perhaps could we all try a little harder to think before we post another self-administered MetaPatOnTheBack ?
posted by y2karl at 5:12 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by y2karl at 5:12 PM on November 10, 2004
stavrosthewonderchicken arguing the virtues of moderation.
OK, I've seen everything now. Call Dr. Kevorkian.
posted by jonmc at 6:31 PM on November 10, 2004
OK, I've seen everything now. Call Dr. Kevorkian.
posted by jonmc at 6:31 PM on November 10, 2004
y2karl, the only thing - of all the things you've posted about - which I miss are those long, scholarly and passionate diversions into some musical genre or artiste that you knew we were all insufficiently aware of.
Hint, hint. I don't mind if jonmc thinks this is also tangentially aimed at him, either.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:39 PM on November 10, 2004
Hint, hint. I don't mind if jonmc thinks this is also tangentially aimed at him, either.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:39 PM on November 10, 2004
dash_slot-: I've actually been formulating one for awhile (which will delight some and probably send others running screaming) but I haven't been able to hunt down links that suit my purposes enough.
Stay tuned.
posted by jonmc at 6:47 PM on November 10, 2004
Stay tuned.
posted by jonmc at 6:47 PM on November 10, 2004
stavrosthewonderchicken arguing the virtues of moderation.
OK, I've seen everything now.
Ah, but jon, amigo, if you were paying attention, you'd notice that even my perambulations into the dark territories of spit-showering apoplexy and raving disgressive rage do not happen all the time, and are in fact tempered with balmy idylls of sweetness and light, which in themselves never threaten to become entirely dominant in my character, either. You big butthead. Heh.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:00 PM on November 10, 2004
OK, I've seen everything now.
Ah, but jon, amigo, if you were paying attention, you'd notice that even my perambulations into the dark territories of spit-showering apoplexy and raving disgressive rage do not happen all the time, and are in fact tempered with balmy idylls of sweetness and light, which in themselves never threaten to become entirely dominant in my character, either. You big butthead. Heh.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:00 PM on November 10, 2004
And you aren't a nofundy stalker. That's to your credit as well.
posted by y2karl at 10:55 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by y2karl at 10:55 PM on November 10, 2004
jonmc: you pricktease. Get it on, as Marc would say.
posted by dash_slot- at 10:56 PM on November 10, 2004
posted by dash_slot- at 10:56 PM on November 10, 2004
stav, it was more a freindly dig based on your fondness for inebriation, not a serious examination of your posting style.
and karl, I know I'm pretty, but that dosen't mean you need to hump my leg every time you see me.
posted by jonmc at 6:34 AM on November 11, 2004
and karl, I know I'm pretty, but that dosen't mean you need to hump my leg every time you see me.
posted by jonmc at 6:34 AM on November 11, 2004
Moderation....what a concept.... Few things in discussion groups make me want to tear out my hair more than when people complain about other people making jokes. Jeebus -- isn't part of the point to make sure people are comfortable enough to express themselves freely? It's not a fscking swiss watch; sometimes you'll get "too much" fun. Let it be fun.
... though, personally, I'm not into leg-humping ... y'all could leave that somewhere else and it would make me nice 'n' happy....
posted by lodurr at 9:03 AM on November 11, 2004
... though, personally, I'm not into leg-humping ... y'all could leave that somewhere else and it would make me nice 'n' happy....
posted by lodurr at 9:03 AM on November 11, 2004
though, personally, I'm not into leg-humping ...
Some here are into that 5-watt-bulb-in-a-100-watt-socket jr. high school style comeback lameness.
posted by y2karl at 10:28 AM on November 11, 2004
Some here are into that 5-watt-bulb-in-a-100-watt-socket jr. high school style comeback lameness.
posted by y2karl at 10:28 AM on November 11, 2004
you're the one who jumped in with the unprovoked attack in a conversation that didn't concern you. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
posted by jonmc at 10:34 AM on November 11, 2004
posted by jonmc at 10:34 AM on November 11, 2004
stav, it was more a freindly dig based on your fondness for inebriation, not a serious examination of your posting style.
I know. I was just waxin' lyrical, there.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:32 PM on November 11, 2004
I know. I was just waxin' lyrical, there.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:32 PM on November 11, 2004
If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
Your lame locker room shit doesn't bother me a bit but, for a fact, Pot/Kettle: you have been making unprovoked personal attacks on people all over the place lately, today as well. You're always taunting people who have said nothing to you. It's getting old.
posted by y2karl at 3:07 PM on November 11, 2004
Your lame locker room shit doesn't bother me a bit but, for a fact, Pot/Kettle: you have been making unprovoked personal attacks on people all over the place lately, today as well. You're always taunting people who have said nothing to you. It's getting old.
posted by y2karl at 3:07 PM on November 11, 2004
karl, that guy made an ass of himself and was polluting the thread. My wisecrack was my way of calling him on it, by making him look foolish. Quite frankly, I think you've just made it a personal mission to up in my shit at every opportunity. Get over it. What the hell do you care what I think?
posted by jonmc at 5:06 PM on November 11, 2004
posted by jonmc at 5:06 PM on November 11, 2004
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
The horse is probably being beaten to death right now, and I really don't mean to offend anyone by drawing attention to the thread. It's not personal, I don't even look at the user names (unless it's a good comment). But from the positive response from the earlier "Why did you vote for Bush?" post, I don't think I'm alone in this.
posted by geoff. at 11:47 AM on November 10, 2004