orange clock needs to be addressed. February 3, 2005 11:30 AM   Subscribe

Can we lose orange clock and keep chicobangs, please? Okay, that's not the best way to say it. I am no angel myself, but this beyond-the-pale swipe at chicobangs and mathowie - from a member of dubious contribution overall (IMHO) - should not go ignored.
posted by scarabic to Etiquette/Policy at 11:30 AM (100 comments total)

Where's the chicobangs/orange clock exchange?
posted by iconomy at 11:32 AM on February 3, 2005


I linked their names for the most relevant comments. They're not userpage links - sorry if that was confusing.
posted by scarabic at 11:33 AM on February 3, 2005


I have thick skin, and don't really care about insults flung by folks in the heat of the moment, especially when they read as ridiculous. It happens.

Don't dignify it with a response, and all that...
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:39 AM on February 3, 2005


I'm not worried about your skin, matt. Far from it. I've never seen you get personally offended and delete something as a result. Most deletions and banning seem to be about setting the tone for this community. We have a broken piano string, here.
posted by scarabic at 11:41 AM on February 3, 2005


I am sad to see folks say that the comment was a straw that broke the camel's back for them. I didn't delete it because I didn't see it for hours afterwards and so many people had commented on it, and everyone's been really sensitive about deleting stuff lately so I held off.

But it is a comment beyond the pale and I've never heard an apology for it, though maybe the follow up thread was supposed to be a mea culpa or something.

You think banning orange clock would bring chicobangs back? Seriously?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:44 AM on February 3, 2005


clock, you owe scarabic, and others (like the Suicide girls themselves) an apology. Seriously.

I don't want to see you banned, but your conduct in that thread was uncalled for and immature. You don't like pornography. Cool. But calling all women who appear naked in photographs sluts and junkies is quite a bit too much.

Matt's not being offended does not mean that you were not being offensive.
posted by zpousman at 11:46 AM on February 3, 2005


Matt, thick skin is one of your many qualities. but orange clock's thuggish behavior made a good man like chico leave. maybe we're not all as thick-skinned as you. you just defended those who are disturbed by the thought (not the actual image) of female breasts, and you lost money in the process. you could very easily defend chicobangs and show that "I fucked your mom" comments will be punished.

but then, as always, it's your site. these are my proverbial 2 cents.
posted by matteo at 11:46 AM on February 3, 2005


You think banning orange clock would bring chicobangs back? Seriously?

no, it'll show the community that we don't talk like that and our administrator doesn't allow that kind of talk.
chico's gone.
posted by matteo at 11:48 AM on February 3, 2005


I'm fairly certain that chico's just taking a break. But orange clock does owe him and the site an apology if he wants to stick around and be taken seriously. That comment offended even me.
posted by jonmc at 11:57 AM on February 3, 2005


I'm with jonmc. I kept waiting for orange clock to 'fess up to his comment being some sort of joke made in poor taste, and when it became obvious that he was serious, I was astounded.
posted by Specklet at 11:59 AM on February 3, 2005


I'm with jonmc. I kept waiting for orange clock to 'fess up to his comment being some sort of joke made in poor taste, and when it became obvious that he was serious, I was astounded.

Count me in this crowd.
posted by rooftop secrets at 12:02 PM on February 3, 2005


I really liked chicobang's contributions. A lot. I hope that jonmc is right that he's only taking a break and isn't gone for good.

orange clock was completely out of line and this isn't the first time.
posted by LeeJay at 12:02 PM on February 3, 2005


Matt was afraid of insulting the sensitivities of a few squeaky wheels like agregoli, who posted 35 times to that thread.

People say things like "drama queen" or "sand in the vagina" and suddenly it's like a civil rights riot.

I'll take my nonsensical, pointless (yet somehow modestly popular) science fpps elsewhere too. C'mon, chico, m_b, people-with-sense... let's leave this place to the hysterical few.
posted by mcgraw at 12:05 PM on February 3, 2005


Wow, I ignore most of orange clock's comments because they don't seem to add anything but I'm going to agree with Jessamyn's comment in that thread, that is among the most insulting things I've ever seen here.

chicobangs was a good member and I'm sorry that he/she has left because of orange clock's outrageous and entirely ban-worthy behaviour.

Is there any reason to keep a member like orange clock?
posted by fenriq at 12:07 PM on February 3, 2005


I really liked chicobang's contributions. A lot. I hope that jonmc is right that he's only taking a break and isn't gone for good.

That's what his comment implied, and I know him IRL. He's an opinionated guy, but it takes a lot for him to get that angry, and I don't blame him. It's one thing to pick apart somebody's arguments in an angry fashion, it's another to resort to personal attacks just for the sake of sounding grandiose which is what orange clock did. I really doubt the "seriousness."
posted by jonmc at 12:07 PM on February 3, 2005


mcgraw - don't go!
posted by 31d1 at 12:07 PM on February 3, 2005


I don't "tolerate" that kind of language, but in a long, heated giant thread where dozens of people were comparing metafilter with prostitution and tossing plenty of arrows in my direction, one person clearly said some things that were so over the line I read it as ridiculous. I don't doubt the person was serious at the time, and it's a horrible thing to have a user that's almost going around saying "user x fucks children!" so you're quite right, but lots of people were dragging me through the mud, but I will give the clock a timeout. Done.

As a side issue, there's a whole damned if I do, damned if I don't aspect with deleting comments, don't you think? I was sure if I axed that comment I would hear complaints of the disjointed nature of the conversation afterwards.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:08 PM on February 3, 2005


How strange that the MeTa thread before this one is by orange clock exhorting the members to go and give money to Matt for all his hard work here.

Is he being intentionally ironic?

Mathowie, I'm glad you left it and I hope that it is the highwater mark for bad taste here. It set the bar, very, very high.
posted by fenriq at 12:11 PM on February 3, 2005


Why ban Orange Clock? Isn't it basically over for him here at this point? An outright ban seems like overkill. In my opinion Orange Clock proved to be completely insane and obnoxious in that thread, and I'll never be taking him seriously again. Shouldn't part of what makes people behave in a community be their status in that community, and not just the threat of banishment?
posted by Doug at 12:12 PM on February 3, 2005


C'mon, chico, m_b, people-with-sense... let's leave this place to the hysterical few.

With all due respect mcgraw, you've been threatening to leave for five months. And I kinda like your surrealist FPPs.

on preview: definitely some aspect of "damned if you do damned if you don't" involved in deleting comments, but I think the vast majority of the user population wouldn't of had a quibble about you deleting that post. But who knows, maybe they would. I don't envy your position, that much is for sure.
posted by rooftop secrets at 12:13 PM on February 3, 2005


Way to be, Matt.
posted by fandango_matt at 12:14 PM on February 3, 2005


MatHowie: Blessed if he does, blessed if he doesn't.
posted by danOstuporStar at 12:14 PM on February 3, 2005


and I'll never be taking him seriously again.

Further support for ELIMINATION!
posted by adampsyche at 12:15 PM on February 3, 2005


thanks, rooftop. but you've got the wrong person. your link on "five months" goes to a comment by some guy named dflower. that ain't me.
posted by mcgraw at 12:16 PM on February 3, 2005


Speaking as one of the most outspokenly anti-authoritarian people on Metafilter, there's a line, and orange clock went beyond it. I'd vote for keeping the comment just so it's forever noted what an idiot he is, and because it's pretty funny in the sense that we can laugh at him.
posted by Ryvar at 12:16 PM on February 3, 2005


Hahah. You are entirely right. Thanks for pointing that out. Woke up way too early this morning. Ignore me for the rest of the day.

*collapses onto desk in narcoleptic heap*
posted by rooftop secrets at 12:17 PM on February 3, 2005


chico's really high on my cool list. I think I tend to ignore orange clock, but I'm not sure, because, like I said, I think I usually ignore him. Except for that brief moment when I see the username and think of orange goblin or orange swan and start to pay attention, then I move on disappointed.

I dunno. Banning's harsh, but obviously I ignored clock's nasty comments, so I'm no expert.
posted by Shane at 12:17 PM on February 3, 2005


there's a whole damned if I do, damned if I don't aspect with deleting comments, don't you think? I was sure if I axed that comment I would hear complaints of the disjointed nature of the conversation afterwards.

agreed. it's a crap job.
posted by matteo at 12:19 PM on February 3, 2005


Matt, yeah, I think you're bound to get some complaints when you delete inflammatory comments, but there are there are some things that are just so outrageous and mean-spirited, they truly merit instant deletion. I wouldn't think deletion of that ilk would result in much flak, but if it did, the complainers would be revealing their own heinousness.

On preview, what rooftop secrets said.
posted by Specklet at 12:20 PM on February 3, 2005


I don't know if orange clock should be banned or shunned as Doug suggested above. Both are good ideas. Everyone knows that every action causes a reaction and there should be consequences for saying what was said to chicobangs.
posted by mlis at 12:23 PM on February 3, 2005


Now that membership is open, does banning disruptive members really do much good?
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:28 PM on February 3, 2005


I sorta figured that Matt ignored it because there's a different "feel" to deleting comments (or banning) on the general basis that they're offensive or disruptive than when the same things are ostensibly involved but also it's an insult against the moderator. That was clearly way over the top, but I think if I had been Marr I would have left it alone solely because it was directed at me. If you understand my point. When Matt deletes and bans, he's doing so as a concientious moderator, not someone with the power to punish those who directly insult him. I imagine he doesn't want to give the impression of the latter.

I was aghast at orange clock's comment, but unlike a lot of people, I'm sympathetic to strong feelings and strong statements on the basis of a heartfelt principle (thus my similarly ambiavlent degense of caddis) and I know a lot of people feel exactly about pornography as orange clock does. I feel that way, in the cases that it's true (which is many).

Even though other people were attacking Matt and the SG ad, even those of them like agregoli were defending porn in some way. If you feel as orange clock does, and you feel that porn is absolutely indefensible, that it's a moral blight on the basis that it's sexist exploitation of the most vulernable people, then the fact that very people were saying so and that MeFi appears to be endorsing it would get you pretty upset. I imagine that once orange clock settled done, he/she regretted the comment and realized it was way over-the-top in making its point. But how many of us haven't done the same thing? (And there are some, and kudos to you.)

Chicobang and mcgraw and some others are leaving or threatening to leave because there was the outcry against the SG ads. They've said so. They're the inverse of those who threatened to leave because of the ads: they think it represents something about the site and community in general that they don't want to be associated with. Well, the consensus in that thread really seemed to me to be that whether porn is right or wrong, whether SG is "good" porn or not, we didn't feel that it was in the best interests of MeFi in the long run for the SG ad to run. If chicobangs and others have such a level of disrespect for such a reasoned community opinion, then let them leave and don't let the door hit them in the ass.

That thread was heated, and there's a lot of embarassing stuff in it from many people; but, overall, I think it's mefi at its best. A lot of different viewpoints were heard, and mostly respectfully.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:31 PM on February 3, 2005


Everyone knows that every action causes a reaction and there should be consequences for saying what was said to chicobangs.

If he was banned it wouldn't break my heart, and I've never called for a banning before. If he isn't, I can just give myself permission not to take anything he says seriously again, and since he hadn't been around long enough to register with me before, it's his loss.

So, whatever happens, it looks like he's punished himself.
posted by jonmc at 12:32 PM on February 3, 2005


that's my typo quota for the month blown in a single comment. damn
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:33 PM on February 3, 2005


It was a juvinile comment in the middle of a discussion in which some people were clearly more riled up than others. Things were said. It's a shame that chicobangs left over it, but I don't think it's worth banning orange clock over. Maybe a timeout, but not banishment.
posted by me3dia at 12:33 PM on February 3, 2005


sweet jesus, orange clock is a douchebag.
posted by keswick at 12:35 PM on February 3, 2005


I'm sure that a lot of us are sympathetic about strong feelings and heated moments and all that, and I imagine that many of us have said things that we wish we hadn't. Still, posting on MeFi is fundamentally different from talking. You have to write something down, you have to preview it, you have to post it. If it takes someone longer than three seconds to think twice about calling the site owner a pimp, then the chances are good that they'll never be on an even enough keel to be of any benefit here.

I find it somewhat amusing that it was really Orange Clock's pathetically lame attempt at absolution via that absurd MeTa thread that ended up crystallizing some MeTaWrath, but he's getting no less than he deserves.
posted by anapestic at 12:37 PM on February 3, 2005


Can I take a moment to say I still believe MeFi's self-policing works fine, in fact amazingly fine? I don't know of anywhere else on the web where a community can eat it own and shit out something yummy.

fold_and_mutilate, for instance, has repeatedly impressed me with his comments in the last year. And he used to be the MeFite I loved to hate. It took a lot of ugly threads, but eventually a voice I truly value was found. I commend fold_ for listenin' and Matt for his judgement, but ulitmately I am most impressed by MeFi itself for it's ability to promote individual views while not tolerating even the best poster's assholian tendencies.

All you folks who wanna get away from the hashing and thrashing for awhile, I understand. I can easily not read the site for months at a time, and not miss it. But then I get curious about what folks are talking about and always find something which keeps me constantly refreshing for a week. I bet you guys will be back too and I look forward to it.
posted by danOstuporStar at 12:40 PM on February 3, 2005


It was a juvinile comment in the middle of a discussion in which some people were clearly more riled up than others.

Calling someone an asshat is juvenile (and also annoying, but forgivable). orange clock accused matt of being a pimp, which he seems on some level to believe is actually true. And he insulted chico's mother, which is something you say when you're spoiling for a fight. So that puts it in another realm entirely.
posted by jonmc at 12:42 PM on February 3, 2005


In light of his outbursts in the SG thread, someone needs to ask him why he asked about dating one when he gets back. You know, for science.
posted by Cyrano at 12:44 PM on February 3, 2005


Wow. Good catch, Cyrano. More may have been going there than met the eye. A grudge? Maybe oc's comments were as principled as I'd given him/her credit for.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:49 PM on February 3, 2005


I am with jonmc - when someone says something as inflammatory and provocative as what orange clock said a reasonable person must conclude that oc was spoiling for a fight. Would oc have said that in person? I doubt it.
posted by mlis at 12:49 PM on February 3, 2005


ahh, now it makes sense. He was rejected by a Suicide Girl and now has an all-consuming hatred of anything connected with them.

Or he's fucking with us for his own amusement. Weird either way.
posted by jonmc at 12:51 PM on February 3, 2005


In light of his outbursts in the SG thread, someone needs to ask him why he asked about dating one when he gets back. You know, for science.

Holy shit!
posted by Quartermass at 12:58 PM on February 3, 2005


You think banning orange clock would bring chicobangs back? Seriously?

Well, I don't know that, Matt. But I do know he said it's why he bailed. I hope he returns as well, but even if he does, it's a bad bad thing that he felt forced by someone else to take a break. If someone takes a break because he has gotten out of line himself, that's good. If someone sweet and moderate like chicobangs leaves because some dipshit like orange_clock has gotten out of line, that's a real failure.

As a side issue, there's a whole damned if I do, damned if I don't aspect with deleting comments, don't you think?

Yes, which is why you usually wait until you have several good reasons to act, including a pattern of bad behavior. I think you have that in this case, as reflected by the general opinion people have of orange_clock here. You pulled the ad because good people were leaving. You've deleted far less in terms of inflammatory comments. OC has a spotty record anyway. I think you're hestitating because you don't want it to appear to be personal retribution from you. But you've got the support you need to get past that right here in this thread.

What's the big agonizing decision, here? I do feel for you in terms of the judgment calls you have to make. But this is a clear one, and you are stalled on it. Please inspire the good members around here that there is hope for this place.
posted by scarabic at 1:03 PM on February 3, 2005


I found the comment offensive, and believe me, up until that point I didn't think it was even possible for a MeFi comment to get under my skin.

That said, I don't think he should be banned. People on this site have said similar things to other users without being banned. While the lack of respect towards ones host makes it clear he's a jerk, his jerkiness doesn't exactly make him unique around here.

This is something that orange clock obviously feels very strongly about. Without knowing him I'm not comfortable judging him except as far as choosing to ignore his future posts. Harsh words spoken in the heat of the moment should not be grounds for banning and if #1 can shrug it off the rest of us also can. If, in fact, this wasn't a heat-of-the-moment-letting-your-personal-history-interfere-with your-public-persona thing, he's certain to come up more bannable babble before too long. I expect, if he is even still around, that this will self-correcting -- and sooner, rather than later.
posted by cedar at 1:03 PM on February 3, 2005


Banning OC seems like overkill. Enough people are already pissed as hell against him, and that seems like punishment enough. The joys of self-policing.

On the other hand, he veryveryveryveryvery much needs to apologize. I think that step would be much more constructive (not to mention OC's responsibility).

Oh, and this in combination with that AskMe question is indeed baffling. WTF?
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:04 PM on February 3, 2005


Harsh words spoken in the heat of the moment should not be grounds for banning and if #1 can shrug it off the rest of us also can.

That sounds right. But then why is everyone so upset with the tone around here? You speak as if it's generally at an acceptable level, but punctuated by bad parts. It's out-of-control bad, with new standards being set all the time.

I just thought this example was cut-and-dried enough, given that a serious prick caused a super-nice guy to leave with 1 lousy comment. And he even said he was leaving not because of the comment, but because of the lack of any appropriate reaction to it. "If that flies around here, I'm gone." That's a valid POV.

orange_clock isn't going to apologize. There. I've got him trapped. Now he's got to suck it up if he wants to prove me wrong, or live out his days on an unrepentant fringe.
posted by scarabic at 1:16 PM on February 3, 2005


Who knows what O.C.'s motives could be for what he wrote, perhaps he knows something we don't about Suicide Girls or whatever. Still, what he did and the way he went about in making whatever point he was trying to make was wrong and if he said that to me, I would want him gone. But it was at Matt and he gets to make the decision then.

I do admire Matt for his thick skin on this as well as many other things said in recent days and weeks. I think it's a great personal attribute something that we can all look to have. If someone writes a useless comment or makes a bad post and it gets deleted, have some thick skin and move on. If someone is trolling and calls you names, have some thick skin and move on. Matt is setting a good example for us all in this case. It's too bad that chico had to leave because of one trolling idiot.
posted by Arch Stanton at 1:16 PM on February 3, 2005


Quartermass: My thoughts exactly.

People are amazing.
posted by Doug at 1:19 PM on February 3, 2005


.
posted by subgenius at 1:23 PM on February 3, 2005


A theory: Giving OC a timeout is a good thing simply to give us all a chance to simmer down. Flamewars and retribution avoided preemptively, as it were. Mayhaps?
posted by Wulfgar! at 1:24 PM on February 3, 2005


I am no angel myself...
I'm sure that a lot of us are sympathetic about strong feelings and heated moments...

We all have bad days and often acknowledge them, laugh about it later, etc. When we all knew each other [more] and knew what the parameters were for acceptable outbursts versus "beyond the pale" outbursts, it was a bit easier to deal with. Lately we've had a combination of a whole bunch of newer members, several contentious topics all at once, matt's got a day job, I've started helping out, there's a lot of adjusting going on. The community norms shift and some people just have to learn what they are.

I had a few emails from people asking me to delete OC's more out-there comments and my response was something like mathowie's. It's hard to clean up a thread, people have been really grouchy about deletions lately, OC should just have to own up to what he said and live with it. This thread is evidence that stuff like that "doesn't fly" but removing it after the fact is a whole other can of worms [let's start another thread about deletions, huh?] Whether we can deal with him, or mcgraw, or that new orthagonal-triangle guy at any one time, or if they have to get folded in to the community like fold_and _multilate was, like S@L has [mostly] been, like rushmc mostly is, is up in the air.

I think what's important is figuring out what the precedent is, maybe giving OC a time out. As we know, in most cases, time outs are temporary and usually last a week or so and often involve an apology. It really takes some serious abuse, moreso than this even, to warrant a full-blown ban. In the meantime, if we miss chicobangs, let's try as a group to convince him that this is the sort of community he wants to associate with, which means trying to avoid heat-of-the-moment outbursts, posting while drunk and angry, petty pissing matches and grudgefests, and generally fucking with the site instead of using it the way it is and the way we [generally] like it.
posted by jessamyn at 1:25 PM on February 3, 2005


OC should just have to own up to what he said and live with it.

Well, I hope you're right that starting this thread accomplished something, jessamyn. But I fear that orange_clock is simply a career crank who now knows he can get away with incredibly fucked stuff. Some people enjoy taking on the role of evil prankster, and a callout like this simply shovels much-loved attention at them.

You guys have made convincing arguments against any admin action in this case. But it just makes me wonder: why do you ever act if you really think a case like this is best left alone?
posted by scarabic at 1:30 PM on February 3, 2005


.
posted by falconred at 1:30 PM on February 3, 2005


instead of using it the way it is and the way we [generally] like it.

Which, for some people here, is with lots of heat-of-the-moment outbursts, posting while drunk and angry, petty pissing matches and grudgefests, and generally fucking with the site
posted by Quartermass at 1:30 PM on February 3, 2005


Jessamyn said:

Whether we can deal with him [orange clock], or mcgraw...

Why are you lumping me in with orange clock? What'd I do?
posted by mcgraw at 1:32 PM on February 3, 2005


Like you don't know...

(ha! I wondered the same thing myself...)
posted by Quartermass at 1:35 PM on February 3, 2005


"...why do you ever act if you really think a case like this is best left alone?"

For me it would be a 'giving him enough rope' kind of deal.

The way it is now #1 can blow it off as another meltdown that just happened to be directed at him. If it proves to be an ongoing pattern, the ban hammer is a click away.

If he deleted and banned, this topic would be about: "That fucking mathowie. One guy says something mean to him and he swoops down like Thor whacking comments and banning people."

Why not wait and see what happens?
posted by cedar at 1:40 PM on February 3, 2005


If you feel as orange clock does, and you feel that porn is absolutely indefensible, that it's a moral blight on the basis that it's sexist exploitation of the most vulernable people, then the fact that very people were saying so and that MeFi appears to be endorsing it would get you pretty upset. I imagine that once orange clock settled done, he/she regretted the comment and realized it was way over-the-top in making its point.

Don't imagine regret on behalf of someone else. Until orange clock says "Hey, you know what, I was out of line and I'm sorry", he seems pretty unregretful to me.

I feel that excessive hyperbolic rudeness is absolutely indefensible, that it's a moral blight on the basis that it shows how little we value opinions that are not our own. It gets me upset, but I don't have to call anyone a pimp or a pedophile to get that point across.
posted by 23skidoo at 1:41 PM on February 3, 2005


I will give the clock a timeout. Done.

Did I misunderstand this?
posted by danOstuporStar at 1:41 PM on February 3, 2005


MetaFilter: Angry outbursts, drunken rants, pissing matches and grudgefests.
posted by fandango_matt at 1:44 PM on February 3, 2005


I didn't delete it because I didn't see it for hours afterwards and so many people had commented on it, and everyone's been really sensitive about deleting stuff lately so I held off.

As one of the really-sensitive-about-deleting camp, let me just say that if the comment had been deleted and a marker left so that people could see where in the thread the flare-up occurred, I don't think that disjointed effect would have been a big issue for anybody.

This is a separate issue from believing that too many comments are now being deleted. However, to speak to that, I have to agree with whoever said that if this particular comment were lost no one would weep - probably not even O.C.
posted by soyjoy at 1:45 PM on February 3, 2005


i imagine there was a lack of outrage at orange clock's comments not because people weren't outraged, but because the thread was closed by the time people saw them.

and i know it's not really the point of this conversation, but personally, those type of user comments (orange clock's) are what has always prevented me from referring anyone to metafilter. i try not to up the ugliness quotient in anyone's day.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:45 PM on February 3, 2005


scarabic, I already banned him (read my comments again), so there was a moment of hesitation in my first comment, but I trusted the folks asking for it and did it, and the hesitation you are arguing against no longer exists.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 1:47 PM on February 3, 2005


Honestly, I missed the whole thing, but I've had orange clock pegged as perhaps the most annoying, useless member on metafilter for some time.

though maybe the follow up thread was supposed to be a mea culpa or something.

It was a smug "I won" couched as a thank you.

My initial reaction to such people, I'll admit, is "why the fuck does that guy still post here?", or even "why do I still post here?" but that's not entirely useful. There are a number of people who post on this site that I'm not terribly fond of, and some opinions (mainly political) that I find absolutely repellant, to the point that I would have a hard time socializing with them outside of the context of metafilter. However, as long as they are mostly respectful and stay on topic, then I remind myself that metafilter isn't my playground.

However, I maintain that orange clock has contributed close to nothing to this community, and the meagre contributions have been more than offset by a series of "edgy" comments (some, I think, in jest, and others--like that one--not). But that's just me.
posted by The God Complex at 1:48 PM on February 3, 2005


Don't imagine regret on behalf of someone else.

Yeah, EB, I admire your capacity for empathy and your effort to rationalize the seemingly irrational, but in this case I think you're either too generous or just haven't seen orange_clock around much.
posted by scarabic at 1:48 PM on February 3, 2005


orange clock fits right in here (and i'm deadly serious).

Metafilter: heat-of-the-moment outbursts, posting while drunk and angry, petty pissing matches and grudgefests, and generally fucking with the site ...

(this really is a weird thread--orange clock didn't say anything that hasn't been said here before by others, who often were more angry about whatever it was that made them explode.) Timeout: fine, but no ban.
posted by amberglow at 1:50 PM on February 3, 2005


Or he's fucking with us for his own amusement.

Ya think!?

I have no doubt that OC is one very proud teenage provocateur right about now. Or as soon as he gets home from school and reads this thread.

Then again, he might just be mentally ill. Either way, as keswick said . . . he's a douchebag.
posted by danny boy at 1:51 PM on February 3, 2005


Matt-

How do you find the patience to put up with us?
posted by xmutex at 1:53 PM on February 3, 2005


Why are you lumping me in with orange clock? What'd I do?

Nothing special, I just know we had a recent MeTa callout about your FPPs that are a bit on the different side. I think it worked out okay actually but I know people were weirded out by it and unsure of your sincerity the same way they feel about OC. Also, your use of the phrase "drama queen" twice in the latest AlexReynolds thread [deleted only because I changed the link from a login-req'd one to a non-login req'd one] was a bit of a button-pushing way to say something that would have otherwise been helpful. I would have dropped you a note about them, but the lack of a contact address and the giant Suicide Girl pix on your user page made me figure I'd just wait to see you here.
posted by jessamyn at 1:53 PM on February 3, 2005


As a side issue, there's a whole damned if I do, damned if I don't aspect with deleting comments, don't you think? I was sure if I axed that comment I would hear complaints of the disjointed nature of the conversation afterwards.

Matt, I think it's important that the rest of the community knows that orange clock wasn't joking and said those things as if they were a serious counter-point to the SG ads. It speaks to what kind of user s/he is, and as unpleasant a thing as it is to say about you (or anyone), cutting out 'extremist' and poorly-phrased viewpoints would do the discourse no good.

Having said that, it's a shame the site is so split that we had to choose between losing either agregoli/vacapinta/et al or chico (and in the fall-out, monju). That's bullshit, man. In that situation, only the community loses out.

xmutex said: "Matt...How do you find the patience to put up with us?"

Administering MeFi has got to be, like, the best crash-course in parenting ever. Have many kids, mathowie, and father well.
posted by cosmonik at 1:56 PM on February 3, 2005


Thanks for answering, jessamyn.

You know, it's tough getting my head in that vice each time I want to fpp and add that special flavour, you know. But every time I do it and things still turn out alright, I think.

I've tried to keep my comments non-aggressive (far less confrontational than, say, orange clock) and I will be even more cautious from now on.
posted by mcgraw at 1:59 PM on February 3, 2005


Excuse me, Matt, I did miss that highly important fact somewhere in that sentence. Dur. Sorry for the needless rattling on.

Thanks~
posted by scarabic at 2:02 PM on February 3, 2005


vise vise vise... that damn vise.
posted by mcgraw at 2:03 PM on February 3, 2005


this really is a weird thread--orange clock didn't say anything that hasn't been said here before by others, who often were more angry about whatever it was that made them explode.

I think its more a matter of the unprovoked nature and savagery involved that gave OC the shock factor. Agreed, some of us can be pretty rough, but that was over the top even for me.
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:08 PM on February 3, 2005


orange clock didn't say anything that hasn't been said here before by others

"I fucked your Mom and Matt's our pimp?"

link, please
posted by scarabic at 2:08 PM on February 3, 2005


I've donated.

It also looks like orange clock called out scarabic before:


God damn, scarabic, you've posted 80 questions to ask metafilter. Is there no end?
posted by orange clock at 10:43 PM PST on November 22

Geez. Some newbie likes your userpage and suddenly you get to tell everyone what to do.
posted by scarabic at 10:47 PM PST on November 22

I have asked a number of questions recently related to this Media PC box I'm building. First time I've made my own computer. Go figure. I was kinda mulling over the idea of a movie night meetup at my place to celebrate and say thanks. Guess who's not invited. Yeesh.
posted by scarabic at 10:53 PM PST on November 22

And for the record I cannot believe you ever gave me a hard time for asking too many questions here, orangeclock.
posted by scarabic at 10:19 PM PST on January 5


Maybe scarabic has a grudge, maybe clock is an asshole.
posted by four panels at 2:10 PM on February 3, 2005


Maybe scarabic has a grudge, maybe clock is an asshole.

clock is an asshole. Or rather was, in that thread. S/He needed a calling out, and scarabic just got to it first. Their prior history doesn't make the callout itself any less justified.
posted by cosmonik at 2:17 PM on February 3, 2005


Um, don't neglect to mention the fact that he posted his "goddamn, is there no end?" right smack IN my AskMe question. Yeah, that marked him as a jerk for me. And yeah, that first impression was pretty well supported as time went by. If you can scour my comment history, surely you can scroll up in this thread and see I'm not the only one around here who's noticed he's a waste of membership.
posted by scarabic at 2:21 PM on February 3, 2005


Incidentally... I'm kinda glad you linked to that, four panels, because I just installed the projector, and I'm glad to be reminded of the movie night idea. Hmmm!
posted by scarabic at 2:22 PM on February 3, 2005


I'm looking on the bright side: Now when I'm reading too fast I won't keep thinking that Orange Swan has flipped out.
posted by Cyrano at 2:31 PM on February 3, 2005


I wanna come scarabic!

What are you showing?
posted by zpousman at 2:39 PM on February 3, 2005


Please, ladies and gentlemen, let us not besmirch the fine institution of wanton assholery by including Mr. Clock in its noble ranks.
posted by xmutex at 2:40 PM on February 3, 2005


If you want to get at chico , talk about his socks.

where's migs btw ?

------- 111 --------

-----son of minya -----

------bad commie-------

----orange clock ----------
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:43 PM on February 3, 2005


Post in Peace.
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:44 PM on February 3, 2005


----settle----
posted by BlueTrain at 2:45 PM on February 3, 2005


I enjoyed orange clock's comment, not because I agreed, but because it was entertaining to see the response. The fact that people actually care enough to get outraged at him is what makes this place special. I like seeing the cries to throw him off the island. I like seeing those who promote tolerance and chide him. It's entertaining.

About the porn ad - I'm glad to have the porn ad. I like this porn because the chicks have more personality than most porn sites. The tattoos and edgy fashion add a lot to the porn. Sure, it's a bit pretentious, but at least they're trying to have some personality and culture. Even so, I'm not even considering paying for porn ever.

It is a form of oppression for people to be outraged and to try to shame women out of the business of selling sex. The real problem is not sex for sale, it's the poverty and economic exploitation that create the conditions for exploiting workers, in the sex industry and other industries.

So long as people are not being coerced by deliberately induced poverty, to tolerate unsafe working conditions both in the sex industry and others, then people are making their own choices.

I wouldn't judge mathowie if he personally administered a porn site and paid young women to strip and fuck. So long as the working conditions were safe (condoms, std check-ups) and they were adequately compensated and were treated respectfully, I'm not going to judge.
posted by VP_Admin at 2:57 PM on February 3, 2005


I've never understood the histrionics of announcing your departure from an online community.

It seems a little self-important to me.
posted by xmutex at 3:06 PM on February 3, 2005


I second what jonmc said above. Chico is a pretty mellow-yet-opinionated guy, and good-humored and slow to anger. Nevertheless, what OC said is enough to make just about anyone justifiably murderous, especially when it's directed at your mother.

It would be a damn shame if we lost Chico and monju_bosatsu, two of our very best members, over this clown's antics.

And Matt, you have an impossible job. Have you considered taking a break for a week or two, yourself, and leaving the reins in the hands of jessamyn or someone for a little while?
posted by Shanachie at 3:22 PM on February 3, 2005


D'oh! I'm Vidiot, and I wrote the comment from "Shanachie", above. (He's a colleague, and I forgot to log him out and me in on this PC.) Apologies.
posted by Vidiot at 3:23 PM on February 3, 2005


And Matt, you have an impossible job. Have you considered taking a break for a week or two, yourself, and leaving the reins in the hands of jessamyn or someone for a little while?

Well, in a way this place is great practice for parenthood. He's already looking after 21304 dysfunctional individuals, what's one more? ;>
posted by jonmc at 3:29 PM on February 3, 2005


*lines up for a spanking*
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:31 PM on February 3, 2005


You can't make me brush my teeth! You can't!
posted by scody at 3:37 PM on February 3, 2005


Who cares about orange clock? Ban the people who complained about Suicide Girls adverts on Metafilter! Long live our internet sexual paradise! Suck it up and click "hide". I can't live with Catholic school PTA meeting hijinks in Metafilter. I QUIT.

Oh shit, nobody called me back from retirement. Okay, I'll just skip straight to my triumphant return.

DING~!
posted by Kleptophoria! at 3:39 PM on February 3, 2005


Close MetaTalk for 72 hours.
posted by nthdegx at 3:44 PM on February 3, 2005


Except for that brief moment when I see the username and think of orange goblin or orange swan and start to pay attention, then I move on disappointed.

Yup, I do the same thing as Shane.

(I'm just wondering, would there be any point in writing those who left angry over the SG ad and informing them of the change, and that there opinion was important and listened to?)
posted by milovoo at 3:46 PM on February 3, 2005


Close MetaTalk for 72 hours.
posted by nthdegx at 3:44 PM PST on February 3


Best idea yet!
posted by greasy_skillet at 3:50 PM on February 3, 2005


Perhaps a little too meta-, and maybe it deserves its own topic, but here's a problem I have with this specific thread:

Mathowie has given OC a timeout. From what I understand, it means he can't post for some period of time. That means he can't respond in any form or fashion to this callout.

Is a timeout intended to be an opportunity for the users to criticize (fairly or not) another member without giving him/her the ability to respond?

Discussing the situation is one thing; piling on when someone can't even attempt an explanation or provide an apology (and I have no idea whether OC would do either, but that's not really the point...) seems a bit unfair.
posted by aberrant at 3:55 PM on February 3, 2005


That means he can't respond in any form or fashion to this callout.

Frequently, in the past, these are resolved over email with Matt. This gets the core of the apology/reprimand done offline, which is actually *less* humiliating for the banned user.

Anyway, point is taken that this thread is ready for its own timeout.

{close}
posted by scarabic at 4:00 PM on February 3, 2005


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