Thanks for not feeding the trolls March 22, 2005 9:21 AM   Subscribe

I'm very impressed no one rose to this bait.
posted by crunchland to Etiquette/Policy at 9:21 AM (92 comments total)

Wow. I've been avoiding the Terry Schiavo threads, so I didn't see this. But, if, as you say, no one 'rose to the bait,' maybe those threads aren't as bad as I'd imagined.

I'm impressed, too.
posted by koeselitz at 9:26 AM on March 22, 2005


I'm inured to it. I suspect that many of us are.
posted by trharlan at 9:27 AM on March 22, 2005


I thought ortho was a lib'rul - did I miss something?
posted by Irontom at 9:29 AM on March 22, 2005


I think he is; he's just really, really bad at irony.
posted by COBRA! at 9:30 AM on March 22, 2005


Here's the thing about the Schiavo case -- I don't think someone should be killed just for being vegetarian, no matter how long they've been like that.
posted by Hildago at 9:31 AM on March 22, 2005


hmm... maybe I missed something.
posted by crunchland at 9:31 AM on March 22, 2005



posted by breezeway at 9:35 AM on March 22, 2005


Yeah, he seems to be quoting making a point by speaking in the imagined voice of the far right. I think it's generally pretty effective, although I have to say that I lost a lot of respect for him today with the comments in the velvet vulva thread.
posted by Irontom at 9:35 AM on March 22, 2005


What jonmc said in the school shooting thread.
posted by Arch Stanton at 9:36 AM on March 22, 2005


orthogonality was being sarcastic. Or is that the problem?
posted by driveler at 9:38 AM on March 22, 2005


I think he is; he's just really, really bad at irony.

I'm kind of the opinion that the whole posting style of imitating what you imagine to be inside your opposition's mind tends to innefective for the most part. It comes across as smug, presumptuous, and a little paranoid at least to these ears. Points are better made by just saying what you mean, instead of getting cute.

And can we please have a moratorium on "lib'rul,"? It's not even remotely funny anymore.
posted by jonmc at 9:38 AM on March 22, 2005


For someone so opposed to NewsFilter, ortho sure does participate in a lot of those threads. ;-P
posted by mischief at 9:40 AM on March 22, 2005


I'm kind of the opinion that the whole posting style of imitating what you imagine to be inside your opposition's mind tends to innefective for the most part. It comes across as smug, presumptuous, and a little paranoid at least to these ears. Points are better made by just saying what you mean, instead of getting cute.

Yeah, I totally agree; when I see someone using that technique over and over, I want to send them a copy of Mother Night, along with a note telling them to pay attention to the bit about how we are what we pretend to be. Maybe there should be a MeFi Mother Night Fund.
posted by COBRA! at 9:43 AM on March 22, 2005


*♥♥♥ teh breezeway*
posted by quonsar at 9:48 AM on March 22, 2005


jonmc: "And can we please have a moratorium on "lib'rul,"? It's not even remotely funny anymore."

I second that motion.
posted by koeselitz at 9:49 AM on March 22, 2005


jonmc: "And can we please have a moratorium on "lib'rul,"? It's not even remotely funny anymore."

I second that motion.


Carried!

Henceforth "lib'rul" is expressly outlawed. If you decide to use it, you will be labelled an outlaw.
posted by Quartermass at 9:53 AM on March 22, 2005


can we still say "big gub'mint" ?
posted by matteo at 9:57 AM on March 22, 2005


and what about "terrah" / "terrahists" / "nevar forget"?
posted by matteo at 9:58 AM on March 22, 2005


If lib'ruls are outlawed, only outlaws will be lib'ruls.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:59 AM on March 22, 2005


Why do you people who want to outlaw our favorite cliches hate America?
posted by soyjoy at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2005


And can we ban "the internets" too. It's only funny when the most powerful man in the world says it.
posted by dodgygeezer at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2005


Has ortho pardon me, orthogonality lost his mind? In the velvet vulva thread (previously referenced by Irontom) he seems poised to flame out spectacularly. He said some ignorant stuff, gets called on it, and then starts tossing around the ad hominems like nobody's business and flips out when others in the thread respond in kind. I'm not sure what (if anything) the correct response is to this. I considered flagging the posts, but by the time I read the thread it was so far into a big mess that I don't know where to begin. So for the moment, I'm sort of gawking in horror.

Does anyone else see this as spectacularly awful, or is my stupidity-acceptance threshold just set too low today?
posted by raedyn at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2005


he was kidding--those of us in the thread all got it.
posted by amberglow at 10:07 AM on March 22, 2005


In Soviet Russa, cliches are self-referential.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:11 AM on March 22, 2005


I'm sort of gawking in horror.

it's just a web site. God forbid you should confront actual reality!
posted by quonsar at 10:37 AM on March 22, 2005


Does ad hominem really apply to trolls? Yeah, I kinda threw a cheap shot at the end of my velvet vulva comment, but I was really upset that maybe there was something in my FPP which somehow encouraged his attacks on fat people.

I didn't think his comments were egregious enough to bring metatalk, so I (among others) fell into the trap of feeding the troll. I'm just going to assume he was just posting under the influence and try not to let it color my future impression of him.

I'm glad we have the flag feature now as another option for addressing off-topic and derisive comments. Thanks Matt.

And thanks to everyone who posted some truly funny stuff in that thread.
posted by danOstuporStar at 10:38 AM on March 22, 2005


"Lib'ruls"? Yeah, get rid of it. It's just plain indecent. But "the internets"? I'd be fine if that one stuck around forever. It has a nice quaint-but-talking-about-high-technology ring to it, especially divorced from its presidential origins. And it will probably become more and more accurate as goverments continue to restrict access, no?
posted by nobody at 10:39 AM on March 22, 2005


Let's ban "Why do you hate America?" while we're at it.
posted by unreason at 10:45 AM on March 22, 2005


I think he is; he's just really, really bad at irony.
Agreed. His posts are so over the top and dripping with key words like "districts intentionally gerrymandered" that I read it as sarcasm.
posted by jmd82 at 10:50 AM on March 22, 2005


"God forbid you should confront actual reality!"

It's cutting, yet slyly insightful comments like these that have made quonsar such an icon of metafilter cleverness.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:52 AM on March 22, 2005


he was kidding--those of us in the thread all got it

amberglow, was this comment referring to the Schiavo thread or the vulva-purse thread? I understood he was not serious in the Schiavo thread, but that's not what I was talking about.

I didn't think his comments were egregious enough to bring metatalk, so I (among others) fell into the trap of feeding the troll. - danOstuporStar

I didn't think it was earth shatteringly terrible either, but I was really surprised that the thread took those turns. I don't think the post caused the (admittedly minor by MeFi standards) uproar.

I'm just going to assume he was just posting under the influence and try not to let it color my future impression of him.

I'll join you in that. Thanks for the feedback.
posted by raedyn at 10:52 AM on March 22, 2005


Speaking of "..gawking in horror.."......I was gobsmacked reading the comments in the recent eidelweiss pirates post - which were all fine and dandy excepting orthoganality's contribution. Totally out there!

Noone responded to "So STFU you weak on crime libruls"which I found interesting (well I did, but much later).
posted by peacay at 10:53 AM on March 22, 2005


On review, my orginal comment sounds more Chicken-Little than I actually felt. I got a little too adjective happy and it came off as if I was SHOCKED!!1! when my reaction was more like I raised an eyebrow and thought "Wow. He really flew off the handle." My bad.
posted by raedyn at 10:58 AM on March 22, 2005


"lib'ruls", "shrubco", "why do you hate x?", "internets", "islamofascist", "(I'm taking an extreme contrary opinion to make an ironic point") et al, have just become shorthand for: "I have no original opinions so I must string together tired clichés instead".

/insert glib, Farkish afterthought
posted by dhoyt at 11:07 AM on March 22, 2005


This is what happens when you kids don't listen to me.
posted by casu marzu at 11:12 AM on March 22, 2005


mead? A freind of mine brought a bottle of mead back from a trip to england for me once. I don't think I've ever tasted anything quite so vile. And I like strawberry fanta, dude.
posted by jonmc at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2005


The bait might have been more effective had it come from someone else than Orthogonality, who I think keeps an autographed photo of Karl Rove looking benevolently over his computer monitor...

Seriously, there are 5 or 6 users here whose posts I don't need to fully read to know what they're going to say. To fall for bait from those guys is to demonstrate a great deal of gullibility.
posted by clevershark at 11:18 AM on March 22, 2005


orthogoguy had to do his faux conservative act... none of MeFi's 'real' righties would touch it with a ten foot pole until dios got his email from Karl Rove, and frankly, he's starting to look a little dizzy from all that spinning.

This thread should go down in MetaFilter history as the first time I've ever seen quonsar use his shift key. (I'm sure I'll be corrected on that, but hey, God forbid!)
posted by wendell at 11:21 AM on March 22, 2005


i meant the Schiavo thread, raedyn. I skip over anything containing the word "vulva" usually--esp. at work. : >
posted by amberglow at 11:21 AM on March 22, 2005


It's getting so that it's hard for me to tell one of you from another, despite those pesky little posted by: credits a the bottom of every message.

Unfortunately, you've all pretty much blended into one obnoxious and salivating blur to me.
posted by crunchland at 11:24 AM on March 22, 2005


clevershark.........maybe.........but I haven't noticed that much consistency about orthogonality's posts. They seem to be from both ends of the spectrum. You may 'read' the sarcasm or irony or faux conservatisim.....I find them a bit more subtle than black/white sometimes.......but maybe that's just my naievety.
posted by peacay at 11:27 AM on March 22, 2005


That's funny... I always placed ortho in that same dios/PP/Steve_at_Linwood type cabal, although his posts were always just a little more extreme (but not so much as to be obvious).

Mind you I only noticed that name pop up recently.
posted by clevershark at 11:27 AM on March 22, 2005


Did anyone tell ortho about this nosepick?
posted by breezeway at 11:28 AM on March 22, 2005


Metafilter: one obnoxious and salivating blur.
posted by casu marzu at 11:28 AM on March 22, 2005


Maybe I just don't notice ortho's posts when he's not being his sarcastic self.
posted by clevershark at 11:28 AM on March 22, 2005


crunchland: "Unfortunately, you've all pretty much blended into one obnoxious and salivating blur to me."

Don't hate on the salivators, crunchland. It's a medical condition. The dentures just don't fit right any more.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:30 AM on March 22, 2005


Ortho has made it clear since day one he is More Liberal Than Thou which is part of what's grating on everyone's nerves, in addition to the "clever" far-right performance bit he occasionally deploys.

Democratic Undergrad called—they're missing a zealot.
posted by dhoyt at 11:33 AM on March 22, 2005


until dios got his email from Karl Rove, and frankly, he's starting to look a little dizzy from all that spinning.
posted by wendell at 11:21 AM PST on March 22


This is incredibly stupid.

I'm not the first one to post and suddenly its because I was waiting for talking points? How about it was because I was busy all morning and didn't get around to reading until my lunch break?

If you will notice from the thread, the references to Texas Health law didn't require any "talking points" because I do that for a living. So good job making an ass out of yourself by suggesting I had to get the info from that bogeyman Karl Rove.

Also, way to character everyone with a different position as "spinning."
posted by dios at 11:39 AM on March 22, 2005


I think the Karl Rove suggestion was tongue-in-cheek. But don't let that stop you from checking this out:


posted by breezeway at 12:10 PM on March 22, 2005


I'm very impressed no one rose to this bait.

I, uh, guess the bait was taken...

Lets have a ban on bans.

aaand.

Even though our politics differ greatly, I haven't read anything from dios in the thread in question that was especially GOP related. So save up the anger till someone indeed missteps.
posted by edgeways at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2005


mead? A freind of mine brought a bottle of mead back from a trip to england for me once. I don't think I've ever tasted anything quite so vile.

jonmc, writing off mead altogether based this experience would be a mistake. It's akin to saying you just don't like wine because you tried peach-flavored chabils once...
posted by Specklet at 12:32 PM on March 22, 2005


Yeah, he seems to be quoting making a point by speaking in the imagined voice of the far right. I think it's generally pretty effective

Effective? Maybe in grade school.
posted by justgary at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2005


Well, just when you thought things couldn't get any stupider than 'repugs' or 'lieberals', the guys over at Freep invented a new slur, thanks to the breathing-cadaver-that-was-Terri: 'deathocrats'.
posted by darukaru at 12:53 PM on March 22, 2005


"I have no original opinions so I must string together tired clichés instead".

This certainly applies to those lamest of the lame "member alias + bot" constructions.
posted by y2karl at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2005


You all don't understand.

I'm "orthogonal" over on Slashdot, where my ranting screeds have, inexplicably, "earned" me 400+ "fans". Go figure.

He has "fans"! He can't "disappoint" them!
posted by loquax at 1:14 PM on March 22, 2005


y2karlbot just executed script [$current_post = ["petty_rejoinder.php"];
posted by dhoyt at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2005


I'm sorry dhoyt, that script will almost certainly not parse as it stands.
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:32 PM on March 22, 2005


Also, way to character everyone with a different position as "spinning."
Dude, you're in thread.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:58 PM on March 22, 2005


add: "a" before "thread," ;P
posted by thomcatspike at 2:00 PM on March 22, 2005


His comments in neither thread bothered me.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 2:06 PM on March 22, 2005


I liked it better the first time. "You're in thread." Add a bitch when needed.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 2:06 PM on March 22, 2005


How long were you in thread? Were you in the shit?
posted by kenko at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2005


I was in the Crotch.
posted by yerfatma at 2:17 PM on March 22, 2005


> sh casu_marzubot
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

posted by casu marzu at 2:21 PM on March 22, 2005


If you want to talk about something obnoxious getting ignored, I would humbly suggest a visit to the mefi irc channel. This thread just highlights the offending comment, which kind of ruins the point of ignoring it. Know what I mean?
posted by cali at 2:46 PM on March 22, 2005


no, it highlights the fact that no one rose to the trollbait. How would you suggest one applauds this without highlighting it?
posted by crunchland at 3:00 PM on March 22, 2005


its raining florence henderson = best mefi name ever
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:02 PM on March 22, 2005


How would you suggest one applauds this without highlighting it?
Quietly.
posted by underer at 3:50 PM on March 22, 2005


Isn't it kind of pathetic to congratulate a bunch of people on not taking the bait?
posted by xmutex at 4:02 PM on March 22, 2005


xmutex: "Isn't it kind of pathetic to congratulate a bunch of people on not taking the bait?"

mustn't... respond... mustn't... respond...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:19 PM on March 22, 2005


Congratulations, It's Raining Florence Henderson!
posted by Man O' Straw at 4:28 PM on March 22, 2005


I know, I know... bad joke. But then I really am feeling pathetic today.
posted by Man O' Straw at 4:30 PM on March 22, 2005


So crunchland, you thought my comments were conservative trolling, and read them seriously rather than sarcastically?
posted by orthogonality at 4:56 PM on March 22, 2005


No conservative troll lists their location as "Jesusland," crunch.
posted by scarabic at 5:11 PM on March 22, 2005


I suppose if I had been interested enough to examine othoganlity's profile, I might have had doubts. As it was, I took the messages at face value. Sarcasm and irony are never very good choices in written form on message boards.

And pathetic though it may be, in the past, there have always been those who walk straight into the clutches of trolls on Metafilter. I guess I should have realized when it didn't happen that it wasn't some miracle in user behavior.
posted by crunchland at 5:23 PM on March 22, 2005


So crunchland, you thought my comments were conservative trolling

Well, that is exactly what they were. Just rolling in the proper sense. And it looks like you hooked one right on the front page of MetaTalk.

Nice one.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:00 PM on March 22, 2005


So it's settled. No more sarcasm. Everyone got that?
posted by scarabic at 6:20 PM on March 22, 2005


Metafilter: it wasn't some miracle in user behavior

: >
posted by amberglow at 6:24 PM on March 22, 2005


I hate you all.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:26 PM on March 22, 2005


Administrator, please only you can be so bold.
I seek that this tripe be deleted or at the least moved to this metatalk thread. [++]
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:10 PM on March 22, 2005



So it's settled. No more sarcasm. Everyone got that?


got it.
posted by quonsar at 7:18 PM on March 22, 2005


I seek that this tripe be deleted

Well. orthogonality, you need to stop reading The Register. Seriously.
posted by Galvatron at 7:22 PM on March 22, 2005


Of course, danOstuporStar posted the link precisely to make fun of Ren-Folk who wear vulva-handbags, believing it ok not only to mock those folks but to invite all the rest of us to join in the mocking.

I have clearly stated my intentions with the post were not in any way related to the mockery with which you ruined the thread. Rather that, in fact, I am disgusted that your comments were in some remote form related to something I posted.

Yet you state the exact opposite as my motivation as if I hadn't already made things clear. I can see no reason behind your lying screed other than an asinine desire to stir shit up. Well, congrats, you win.

Then, perhaps with his blood sugar on the rise after polishing off two dozen donuts

As far as I'm concerned, utterly disrespectful shit like that deserves more than mead, it deserves some time in the corner with the dunce cap and an IV of mead.
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:26 PM on March 22, 2005


crunchland wrote:
"As it was, I took the messages at face value. Sarcasm and irony are never very good choices in written form on message boards."

I, Metafilter's High Minister of Missing Sarcasm, knew it was irony after the second sentence. I have been brushing up on my sarcasm homework though. My studies have now enabled me to construct an example of this so-called sarcasm:

"JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, CRUNCHTARD, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!"

See? Feigned outrage. Not all sarcasm follows this pattern, however. I have heard that some of it can be feigned ideology, I gather - but this is a little more complex and I'm not quite there yet.

danOstuporstar wrote:
"I seek that this tripe be deleted or at the least moved to this metatalk thread."

God I hope not. This quote is (punctuation aside) simply beautiful:

orthoganality wrote:
"I guess there are those it's ok to mock, and on the other hand those who never can be mocked, certain, ah, dare I say it, sacred cows."

danOstuporstar (sadly) also wrote:
"As far as I'm concerned, utterly disrespectful shit like that deserves more than mead, it deserves some time in the corner with the dunce cap and an IV of mead."

[sarcasm]And here I was wondering why Matt sometimes treats us like children.[/sarcasm]
posted by Ryvar at 7:30 PM on March 22, 2005


danOstuporStar writes "I have clearly stated my intentions with the post were not in any way related to the mockery with which you ruined the thread. Rather that, in fact, I am disgusted that your comments were in some remote form related to something I posted."

I ruined the thread? I made a two-line joke, and the physiques of Ren-Faire attendees, a joke that was also make by at least two other commenters. What exactly were you expecting from your post mocking velvet vaginas?

If your motivations were not to mock velvet vulvas, why'd you post? To sell the things? Do you have a financial interest in velvet vulva handbags? Are they Pepsi Blue Velvet Vulvas? Really, what possible reason did you have to post except to make fun of velvet vulvas and those who wear them?

And when I point out that obvious to all motivation, you demand that my pointing it out be thrown down the memory hole: "Administrator, please only you can be so bold.
"I seek that this tripe be deleted or at the least moved to this metatalk thread. [++]"

Shit, son, they're words on a screen. What's so scary about them that you have to run to teacher? You didn't demand that my joke about Ren-fatties be removed -- and that was what triggered your righteous indignation. But then, that righteous indignation allowed you the fun of piling on, so removing it would have removed the fun too.

It's only when your own hypocrisy is pointed that you demand removal.

What are you afraid of? If not to mock, why'd you post?
posted by orthogonality at 7:41 PM on March 22, 2005


So wait, all those links to unusual things that I've read over the years here, those were all mocking? Shit, I didn't realize.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:43 PM on March 22, 2005


haha this is great. keep it up everyone.
posted by Stynxno at 7:48 PM on March 22, 2005


I'd like to suggest we ban banning things.
posted by spock at 7:51 PM on March 22, 2005


Oh, and danOstuporStar, I've just endured an eighty-five-seven comment MetaTalk thread telling me I'm
a) a conservative troll, b)a liberal troll, c) ineffective at irony or sarcasm d) too effective at irony or sarcasm, e) and various other insults and f) amateur analyses of my psyche.

I haven't asked that any of it be thrown down the memory hole.

It's the internet, and misunderstandings, misapprehensions, sarcasm (good or poor), irony ( good or poor), mockery, mockery of things you like to mock, mockery of things so sacred to you that you think no one should ever, EVAR, mock, all of that is pretty much par for the course.

For you to get so threatened when your motivations are called into question that you demand censoring is just silly. And frankly, hypocritical.

The worlds is not going to stop when, after you've engaged in the rough and tumble, and called others out -- and in this case made purely ad hominem attacks on me, attacks I did not reciprocate -- you decide that, ouch! it's gotten to be a bit more than you can take, so "please, please, stop the world, danOstuporStar has discovered he's just too sensitive for this!"

Harry Truman -- heat -- kitchen.
posted by orthogonality at 7:54 PM on March 22, 2005


As I stated, Mr. Gonality, I am fine if your comments are moved here rather than deleted. I just would like not to have the MeFi thread further soiled by your outbursts.

So please, continue your searing exploration of my hypocrisy -- to the delight of all, no doubt.
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:56 PM on March 22, 2005


made purely ad hominem attacks on me, attacks I did not reciprocate

WTF? Fuck, nevermind. You're insane. I'm gone.
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:58 PM on March 22, 2005


I think it's only fitting that a thread started in error, falsely praising the people of Metafilter, end in a train-wrecked clusterfuck like this.

Well done. Thank you all for playing.
posted by crunchland at 8:03 PM on March 22, 2005


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