OK, I was a little bit of a jerk, but the reply was worse! May 2, 2005 10:26 AM   Subscribe

I grant that my first comment in this thread was a little troll-ish, and I'm sorry about that. I probably contributed a pretty bad atmosphere to the discussion there. But was this really warranted?
posted by koeselitz to Etiquette/Policy at 10:26 AM (36 comments total)



wow... I wouldn't expect a ton of sympathy, the hatred for right wing viewpoints around here clouds the judgement of many. But still, that's fucked up.
posted by jonson at 10:34 AM on May 2, 2005


... and unwarranted.
posted by dfowler at 10:35 AM on May 2, 2005


I mean, I've seen Decani around here, and I know he's not some crazy or an angry snark; he's pretty lucid. But this seemed pretty bad, and, as you pointed out, dfowler, it looks like other people have done this, too.

All I can say is: don't. I don't have a wife/kids, but if I did, I'd probably be not only offended but a little worried. Nowadays, it's not so odd to be a little frightened by a threat made over the internet. Besides, it only muddies the waters and spoils discussion. I know I'm probably the last authority to have justification to talk about 'spoiling discussions,' but this is how it seems to me.

posted by koeselitz at 10:56 AM on May 2, 2005


50 bucks says nothing happens... after all, Decani is "arguing" from the 'right' side of the debate.
posted by Witty at 11:00 AM on May 2, 2005


Meh. This is why Momma told you that one doesn't discuss sex, religion or politics in polite conversation. Call her tonight and tell her you lover her.
posted by Doohickie at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2005


I don't know, after reading Decani's comment I was completely won over. So thoughtful! So erudite! So succinct! Such a valuable addition to the overall level of discourse on MetaFilter! I am intrigued by his ideas and would like to subscribe to his newsletter, since I, too, have no wife he can so selflessly offer to violate.

The putz.
posted by Floydd at 11:16 AM on May 2, 2005


50 bucks says that if nothing happens, it's because Matt has better things to do today than worry about what's happening here, regardless of the political motivations and convictions of those involved.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:18 AM on May 2, 2005


I thought it was just a pathetic attempt at humor, probably soured by your early snark...

I'm not making excuses, but perhaps dfowler has a point with the contagious bit...
posted by schyler523 at 11:18 AM on May 2, 2005


jacquilynne - Agreed... unless you voted for Bush, of course.
posted by Witty at 11:20 AM on May 2, 2005


Meh. This is why Momma told you that one doesn't discuss sex, religion or politics in polite conversation. Call her tonight and tell her you love her.
posted by Doohickie at 11:16 AM PST on May 2 [!]


Sure. What's your mom's phone number?

Zing!
posted by ColdChef at 11:28 AM on May 2, 2005


just a little bit of self-restraint goes a long ways in these situations.
posted by warbaby at 11:33 AM on May 2, 2005


867-5309. Her name's Jennie.
posted by Doohickie at 12:09 PM on May 2, 2005


Here's another recent comment about raping another Mefi user's dead relative.

That's the new face of metafilter. Talk loud, talk stupid, get noticed. Shout things you would never whisper at the office. Imagine if steve@linwood said such a thing? People would be outraged.

With a site this big there's always going to be a few children that sneak in.
posted by justgary at 2:32 PM on May 2, 2005


Was it warranted? A senseless question since "legality doesn't matter, public justification doesn't matter".
posted by mischief at 2:59 PM on May 2, 2005


That's the new face of metafilter. Talk loud, talk stupid, get noticed.

Riiiight. Because that sort of thing *never* happened during Mefi's early years.
posted by mediareport at 2:59 PM on May 2, 2005


Oh for fuck's sake koeselitz.

You know, I like you, despite your politics, mostly because your use of a small font seems like a charming kind of modesty.

But in this case, you set yourself up for the comment. By saying that the legality of the Iraq War -- or whatever -- "doesn't matter" because it's "right", you should have expected that someone else would play reductio ad absurdum on your ass and try to show you a hypocrite, by purporting to "excuse" "because it's right" as heinous a crime as possible to imagine, with you and yours the victims.

In other words, it was a standard rhetorical move, and it's just silly for you to take personally, or as literally meant, or as a threat.

It's little different really, from moderator Bernard Shaw asking death-penalty opponent Michael Dukakis during the Presidential debate, "Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?"

The whole point is of the rhetorical tactic is to ask, "would you still hold your position if you were personally affected by it?"

It's not the nicest way to debate, but it's not dishonest -- to the contrary, it's meant to root out hypocrisy --, not unprecedented, not underhanded, or unfair.

You made a sweeping claim of dubious validity (I'm not addressing to the "war was right" part, but the "legality doesn't matter" part), and you back that claim's possible application in as personal away as possible. That's what happens in careless debating.

Again, I like you, and I'm sorry of your were personally hurt by the image of harm coming to your loved ones -- I don't mean to minimize your discomfort.
posted by orthogonality at 3:20 PM on May 2, 2005


Wow, people are going to look back to pre-election 2004 MeFi and wonder where all the civility went.
posted by fenriq at 3:24 PM on May 2, 2005


Sorry. It was a knee-jerk Meta post, and, on hindsight, I wish I hadn't made it.
posted by koeselitz at 3:29 PM on May 2, 2005


koeselitz said: "Sorry."

OK, time for the end-of-thread nonsense party! ;-P
posted by mischief at 3:39 PM on May 2, 2005


fish --> pants
posted by erebora at 3:44 PM on May 2, 2005


Wanna come to my fish pants party?
posted by schyler523 at 4:02 PM on May 2, 2005


I'm not wearing pants...
posted by arse_hat at 4:19 PM on May 2, 2005


Perfect. You get to serve the punch.
posted by schyler523 at 4:27 PM on May 2, 2005


koeselitz writes "Sorry. It was a knee-jerk Meta post, and, on hindsight, I wish I hadn't made it."

Eh. You were upset by it. Don't kick yourself. (Metafilter will pile on and kick you soon enough, if my experience is any guide. ;) )
posted by orthogonality at 4:30 PM on May 2, 2005


As my grandma would say, " I have shock, I have shock!"
Indeed, I hope Decani had a shitty day.

Soothing wounds, offering comfort.....

Some people will never have cleaver come-backs, encourage them my dear.
posted by Viomeda at 4:45 PM on May 2, 2005


Mmmm...fish pants party...
posted by mediareport at 4:48 PM on May 2, 2005


Never get in an argument with someone who has cleaver comebacks, they'll hack you to pieces.
posted by fenriq at 5:05 PM on May 2, 2005


Oh no, ortho-fans! Things look ok for our hero, now, but who knows what shadowy horrors look in the wings? To see for yourself, tune in next week: same ortho-time, same ortho-channel. See you then, on The Voice Of Reason.
posted by shmegegge at 5:21 PM on May 2, 2005


Cleaver comebacks: "shut-up June!"
posted by arse_hat at 5:22 PM on May 2, 2005


ok, listen: "legality doesn't matter, public justification on MeTa doesn't matter. Decani was right".


did you like it, koeselitz?
after all, you're so macho only until other children insult your mama, then you come whining to MeTa.
to cheer you up, check out some Abu Ghraib pictures, maybe the occasional Lynndie England fansite with swimsuit pics.
take pride in your "just war". from a safe distance, of course, like all the other keyboard warriors.
posted by matteo at 5:27 PM on May 2, 2005


So... matteo, you're kind of a dick, huh?
posted by jonson at 5:56 PM on May 2, 2005


matteo: You're right. I was being too abrasive there. I wish I had expressed myself in a less noxious and harsh way.

Viomeda: I did it. I finished my paper. I just turned it in. Thank you. All this will be over soon.
posted by koeselitz at 5:59 PM on May 2, 2005


koeselitz writes "matteo: You're right. I was being too abrasive there. I wish I had expressed myself in a less noxious and harsh way."

Guy's apologized at least twice, matteo. Gentlemanly thing to do would be to accept it.
posted by orthogonality at 12:38 PM on May 3, 2005


Oh. My. Giddy. Aunt.

I got called out for that?

koeselitz, I'm embarrassed for you. And all the other low-IQ assheads who backed you up and couldn't see further than the words "rape", "wife" and "kids". Maybe you should all go increase your vocabulary by looking up "satire" and, as orthogonality so accurately spotted, "reductio ad absurdum".

I was TAKING THE PISS out of your ridiculous and offensive - yes, that's right - offensive post, koeselitz, and one would have to be a most absurdly dunderheaded dimwit not to see that.

And I get a call-out for it? And yet it seems that it's acceptable to casually declare that the mass slaughter, maiming and bereavement (oh, and let's not forget rape and torture - of children too) is "right" simply because koeselitz says it is, irrespective of legality or public opinion? That doesn't warrant a call-out but sending it up does?

Appalling. Still useful to be able to add a few names to my "MeFi Thickos" list, I must say.

posted by Decani at 3:04 AM on May 6, 2005


See? I'm so stunned by this ridiculous thread I screwed up my italics!
posted by Decani at 3:08 AM on May 6, 2005


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