just wondered how much MeTa spills over into real life May 27, 2005 11:55 PM Subscribe
Having never been to a Metafilter meetup, I have a question.
Do people gravitate together in chat groups in the same way they do online? Do the snarky posters just wander over and interject something trollish?
I know people personally that fit many personalities found here, and just wondered how much MeTa spills over into real life, by those who have met them.
Do people gravitate together in chat groups in the same way they do online? Do the snarky posters just wander over and interject something trollish?
I know people personally that fit many personalities found here, and just wondered how much MeTa spills over into real life, by those who have met them.
I try to start fights.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:54 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by eyeballkid at 1:54 AM on May 28, 2005
Hmph. I've been to one, and I was one of 3 people who actually showed up.
:(
posted by Radio7 at 2:06 AM on May 28, 2005
:(
posted by Radio7 at 2:06 AM on May 28, 2005
It's one big nerd party, in a good way. I've been to meetups in Seattle, Boston, Raleigh, DC and NY so I feel safe generalizing a little. Generally people hang out, drink and eat and either talk about Metafilter or don't, in my experience mostly don't. I don't think I've ever seen trollish behavior at any meetups.
Usually you learn people's real names and what they do for work and where they live and it gives you a wider range of things to talk about than just how things unfold here. My problem has always been remembering what the MeFi handle of someone who I now know as Alan, or Mike, or Rick.... Even though Metafilter can seem like a really broad sample of the population with some widely differing beliefs, the groups I've met shared some central interests [computers, internet communities, a certain curiosity about things, beer] that assured hours of fun conversations.
posted by jessamyn at 5:07 AM on May 28, 2005
Usually you learn people's real names and what they do for work and where they live and it gives you a wider range of things to talk about than just how things unfold here. My problem has always been remembering what the MeFi handle of someone who I now know as Alan, or Mike, or Rick.... Even though Metafilter can seem like a really broad sample of the population with some widely differing beliefs, the groups I've met shared some central interests [computers, internet communities, a certain curiosity about things, beer] that assured hours of fun conversations.
posted by jessamyn at 5:07 AM on May 28, 2005
IRL is totally different. I'd agree that net junkies tend towards being reserved but alcohol is the universal solvent. I think it's incomparably different actually speaking with someone face to face - eye contact, body language, speech pattern, emotion - there's less room for a lot of the misinterpretation that occurs here.
People are much better able to read sarcasm and humour and the like. I'd be surprised if anything nasty occurred - I've been to one here in the antipodes and everyone was really nice but we all tend to be perhaps a bit more laid back anyway. [mind you, we did have a 'vocal discussion' about a contentious FPP thread alive at the time...but it all dissolved away and we chatted on about this that and the other, regardless]
I think meetups would be therapeutic for some people to learn empathy and see that there are persons with feelings at the other end of a snarking keyboard quite honestly.
posted by peacay at 5:20 AM on May 28, 2005
People are much better able to read sarcasm and humour and the like. I'd be surprised if anything nasty occurred - I've been to one here in the antipodes and everyone was really nice but we all tend to be perhaps a bit more laid back anyway. [mind you, we did have a 'vocal discussion' about a contentious FPP thread alive at the time...but it all dissolved away and we chatted on about this that and the other, regardless]
I think meetups would be therapeutic for some people to learn empathy and see that there are persons with feelings at the other end of a snarking keyboard quite honestly.
posted by peacay at 5:20 AM on May 28, 2005
The Mefi group is an easy one (veteran of two whole meetups).
Basically, everyone is fairly awkward to start with. They find that they have something in common. And someone will say, did you see this link? or what that person said? and this or that was totally cool.
For once, you'll be able to discuss all your internet memes with people who understand you.
posted by filmgeek at 6:39 AM on May 28, 2005
Basically, everyone is fairly awkward to start with. They find that they have something in common. And someone will say, did you see this link? or what that person said? and this or that was totally cool.
For once, you'll be able to discuss all your internet memes with people who understand you.
posted by filmgeek at 6:39 AM on May 28, 2005
We did have one meet-up in Toronto that devolved into a NewsFilters style shitstorm and resulted in several people getting up and storming out. But that's the exception. I've been to a lot of meet-ups for a lot of different online communities, and I've found that generally, they take the tone of the community itself, but red-shifted down the spectrum towards happiness. So, serious communities let loose a little, zany communities tend to be slightly zanier.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:04 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by jacquilynne at 7:04 AM on May 28, 2005
I have met Jessamyn and can tell you she is the life of the par-tay in real life.
posted by y2karl at 7:08 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by y2karl at 7:08 AM on May 28, 2005
devolved into a NewsFilters style shitstorm and resulted in several people getting up and storming out.
The Internet is serious business.
posted by keswick at 7:44 AM on May 28, 2005
The Internet is serious business.
posted by keswick at 7:44 AM on May 28, 2005
I've been to them in SF, Portland, Vancouver, San Diego, and NYC and even though I run MetaFilter, generally we talk about the site for about 10-15 minutes, then move on to other things (talk about each other, what we do, etc).
I've never heard of anyone getting into a heated argument at any of them (until now I guess). People usually leave their anonymous internet attitudes at the door when they head into the real world.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:50 AM on May 28, 2005
I've never heard of anyone getting into a heated argument at any of them (until now I guess). People usually leave their anonymous internet attitudes at the door when they head into the real world.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:50 AM on May 28, 2005
You run metafilter? I thought...why am I sending checks to ortho every month?
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 8:38 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 8:38 AM on May 28, 2005
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person. So, its not always a case of leaving online stuff online, and that person has said they won't be attending any more meetups because of this.
posted by thatothrgirl at 8:39 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by thatothrgirl at 8:39 AM on May 28, 2005
Jessamyn, what's y2Karl like in real life?
I'm really curious.
And thatothrgirl, please give more details, this is MetaTalk not MetaTease.
posted by sic at 8:44 AM on May 28, 2005
I'm really curious.
And thatothrgirl, please give more details, this is MetaTalk not MetaTease.
posted by sic at 8:44 AM on May 28, 2005
Even though Metafilter can seem like a really broad sample of the population with some widely differing beliefs
Wow. I couldn't disagree more. With over 24,000 members you're going to have people from all walks of life, but for the most part the metafilter membership seems quite...similar (white, liberal, tech savy, etc).
Which is why, though I've never been to a mefi meetup, this:
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
does not surprise me.
posted by justgary at 9:09 AM on May 28, 2005
Wow. I couldn't disagree more. With over 24,000 members you're going to have people from all walks of life, but for the most part the metafilter membership seems quite...similar (white, liberal, tech savy, etc).
Which is why, though I've never been to a mefi meetup, this:
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
does not surprise me.
posted by justgary at 9:09 AM on May 28, 2005
I plan to sneak in on one as one of my sock puppets.
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:16 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by AlexReynolds at 9:16 AM on May 28, 2005
You run metafilter? I thought...why am I sending checks to ortho every month? posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 8:38 AM PST on May 28 [!]
Funny!
posted by five fresh fish at 9:38 AM on May 28, 2005
Funny!
posted by five fresh fish at 9:38 AM on May 28, 2005
There's even IRL versions of trolling and trollishness
I've been to, what, half a dozen MeFi meetups and never seen anything vaguely resembling this. Everybody was perfectly nice. Which is why this:
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
did surprise me. My first MeFi meetup was graced by the presence of evanizer, who was frequently castigated online but seemed to have no problem fitting in with the group in the bar. But then, it was a bar, and as peacay says, alcohol is the universal solvent.
In short, I recommend the experience.
why am I sending checks to ortho every month?
He takes checks?? That bastard -- I've been sending him cash!
posted by languagehat at 9:51 AM on May 28, 2005
I've been to, what, half a dozen MeFi meetups and never seen anything vaguely resembling this. Everybody was perfectly nice. Which is why this:
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
did surprise me. My first MeFi meetup was graced by the presence of evanizer, who was frequently castigated online but seemed to have no problem fitting in with the group in the bar. But then, it was a bar, and as peacay says, alcohol is the universal solvent.
In short, I recommend the experience.
why am I sending checks to ortho every month?
He takes checks?? That bastard -- I've been sending him cash!
posted by languagehat at 9:51 AM on May 28, 2005
PANTS OFF
posted by Hands of Manos at 9:58 AM on May 28, 2005
posted by Hands of Manos at 9:58 AM on May 28, 2005
Very little correllation between online and offline persona, at leats, at a meetup where people are usually a little shy, on their best behavior, perhaps even compensating for their online persona.
I've only been to one meetup that was so big that it split into sub-conversations, and that was a MeFi / MoFi combo. Most of the time everybody's in one circle, and the people doing most of the talking are not always the ones who do the most posting.
posted by scarabic at 10:15 AM on May 28, 2005
I've only been to one meetup that was so big that it split into sub-conversations, and that was a MeFi / MoFi combo. Most of the time everybody's in one circle, and the people doing most of the talking are not always the ones who do the most posting.
posted by scarabic at 10:15 AM on May 28, 2005
i think we always split into smaller groups when it's a big crowd--it's hard to talk with 10-20+ people at once. (or i just do)
And if we're at a restaurant, it's impossible to really talk with people at the other end of the table--bars are better, i think.
posted by amberglow at 10:45 AM on May 28, 2005
And if we're at a restaurant, it's impossible to really talk with people at the other end of the table--bars are better, i think.
posted by amberglow at 10:45 AM on May 28, 2005
DeepFriedTwinkies writes "You run metafilter? I thought...why am I sending checks to ortho every month?"
/me blinks.
(Look at my profile: you're supposed to be sending me job offers.)
;)
posted by orthogonality at 11:10 AM on May 28, 2005
/me blinks.
(Look at my profile: you're supposed to be sending me job offers.)
;)
posted by orthogonality at 11:10 AM on May 28, 2005
The last mefi meetup I went to in LA we all just ran around the table talking to each other. Everyone was so friendly and very cool.
The mefi meetup in ATL was very small and intimate but we also had a great time chatting there as well.
posted by Hands of Manos at 11:12 AM on May 28, 2005
The mefi meetup in ATL was very small and intimate but we also had a great time chatting there as well.
posted by Hands of Manos at 11:12 AM on May 28, 2005
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
I think it was S@L or paris, i remember something about that happening, not really any specifics though.
posted by puke & cry at 11:20 AM on May 28, 2005
I think it was S@L or paris, i remember something about that happening, not really any specifics though.
posted by puke & cry at 11:20 AM on May 28, 2005
I think that in person, people generally feel more obliged to be nice to each other. That said, I may have this tendency less than most other people, so I personally have had more than one conversation at a meetup that was not all puppydogs and rainbows. Still, you might sign on to Metafilter to argue, but you don't go to meetups if you aren't looking to have a good time. As amberglow said, people generally break up into groups, and if there's someone you want to avoid, it isn't hard.
I live in New York now, but I attended the first Los Angeles meetup. All guys, most of us pretty geeky, around a table in a private room at a restaurant. There was a friendly but palpable awkwardness at first. Then, someone lifted his glass and exlaimed "Fuck [username]"! The rest of us,without exception, echoed his sentiment and drank up. After that, the evening was a breeze.
posted by bingo at 11:34 AM on May 28, 2005
I live in New York now, but I attended the first Los Angeles meetup. All guys, most of us pretty geeky, around a table in a private room at a restaurant. There was a friendly but palpable awkwardness at first. Then, someone lifted his glass and exlaimed "Fuck [username]"! The rest of us,without exception, echoed his sentiment and drank up. After that, the evening was a breeze.
posted by bingo at 11:34 AM on May 28, 2005
That's probably a good thing Amberglow.
Although I admit that I'd deal with the human version of PP at a NY meetup if I also got the chance to meet you in person (and some of the other NY mefis). But I've vowed never to step foot in America while George Bush is president, so I guess I'll have to wait until 2008 :( or you will have to come to Spain - - Zapatero's new and improved liberal Spain :)
posted by sic at 11:42 AM on May 28, 2005
Although I admit that I'd deal with the human version of PP at a NY meetup if I also got the chance to meet you in person (and some of the other NY mefis). But I've vowed never to step foot in America while George Bush is president, so I guess I'll have to wait until 2008 :( or you will have to come to Spain - - Zapatero's new and improved liberal Spain :)
posted by sic at 11:42 AM on May 28, 2005
posting from an actual, real-life meet-up, in islington, london, on the local free access islington "streetnet", I can quote a fellow member, who suggests that "people are less text-based in real life." With which I will not disagree. So far, we have only written down one word. (But that may be because our man with technology has not yet shown...)
posted by mdn at 1:36 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by mdn at 1:36 PM on May 28, 2005
Shame you couldn't make it out to the last one in LA.
posted by DaShiv at 2:23 AM PST on May 28 [!]
No kidding. I had work though.
Glad to hear people (?) showed up.
posted by Radio7 at 2:10 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by DaShiv at 2:23 AM PST on May 28 [!]
No kidding. I had work though.
Glad to hear people (?) showed up.
posted by Radio7 at 2:10 PM on May 28, 2005
Haven't been a member for long, but was wondering about this question as to how much the discussions at the meetups are about mefi/site etc, I half expected that chatter would move away from mefi to other life interests, it's all good : - )
posted by Chimp at 2:37 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by Chimp at 2:37 PM on May 28, 2005
i will be, sic--maybe this winter. : >
posted by amberglow at 12:30 PM PST on May 28 [!]
Keep in touch! I have a baby coming in September but I may be able to get away for a weekend on the peninsula sometime during the winter...
posted by sic at 3:11 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by amberglow at 12:30 PM PST on May 28 [!]
Keep in touch! I have a baby coming in September but I may be able to get away for a weekend on the peninsula sometime during the winter...
posted by sic at 3:11 PM on May 28, 2005
The main reason I was asking was I needed to know if it was socially unacceptable if find someone like Dios, S@L, PP or the like, Do I punch them in the mouth FIRST, THEN hand them a beer,
Or do we get all snockered up first, spout off our mouths, and THEN get into a brawl.
If there's one near me, I'll probably go..
I'll be the one with the busted lip, most probably.
posted by Balisong at 4:07 PM on May 28, 2005
Or do we get all snockered up first, spout off our mouths, and THEN get into a brawl.
If there's one near me, I'll probably go..
I'll be the one with the busted lip, most probably.
posted by Balisong at 4:07 PM on May 28, 2005
Bali, if we ever find ourselves in the same city, I permit you to punch me in the mouth. I've actually been afraid to start a Housston meetup for just this reason -- even when I link to porn here, guys complain.
posted by NickDouglas at 4:52 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by NickDouglas at 4:52 PM on May 28, 2005
I prolly shouldn't say this, but there are definitely a few folks who post asshole-ish crap to Mefi that I'd walk away from at a meetup. I wouldn't cause a scene, but I wouldn't bother talking to them either. That said, I've had plenty of bonding experiences IRL with folks I'd previously argued with/snarked at vehemently online. It's a strange, fun and positive feeling to meet someone and connect in basic human ways that aren't available via Usenet, the web, etc.
posted by mediareport at 5:01 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by mediareport at 5:01 PM on May 28, 2005
Well, having been a participant of the great MeFi Sleepover in Dallas last year AND having been to a meetup with Dios, I can say that I have never been around any mefite that I wanted to punch in the face. There can always be uncomfortable moments when putting a face to a nick, but no one deserves outright rudeness.
While I was not at the meetup personally that I was talking about, I heard about it immediately afterwards when feelings were most hurt. This is one of the reasons I am a firm believer if anyone makes an effort to come out to one of these meetups, even knowing that they might or might not elicit strong reactions from people, they should be afforded that common courtesy of being an actual person being interacted with and not just some dots on a screen.
posted by thatothrgirl at 7:17 PM on May 28, 2005
While I was not at the meetup personally that I was talking about, I heard about it immediately afterwards when feelings were most hurt. This is one of the reasons I am a firm believer if anyone makes an effort to come out to one of these meetups, even knowing that they might or might not elicit strong reactions from people, they should be afforded that common courtesy of being an actual person being interacted with and not just some dots on a screen.
posted by thatothrgirl at 7:17 PM on May 28, 2005
ParisParamus was at the first NYC meetup (at Blah Blah in Park Slope) and was perfectly pleasant. UncleFes too. Evanizer was the belle of the ball at Pioneer. Really, you have to separate the political and the personal even among your real-life acquaintances, and only more so at meetups.
posted by nicwolff at 11:41 PM on May 28, 2005
posted by nicwolff at 11:41 PM on May 28, 2005
I've attended two meetups - NYC & Minneapolis. Although I was a member a couple of years before the NYC meet up, I hadn't spent much time here for about a year. I wasn't too familiar with the many online personalities because of this. Later on, I realized that the people that who I enjoyed talking with the most were ones that don't post much. All in all, it was a fun meet up and everyone was quite nice.
By the by, I've had the opportunity to converse with PP and he's a nice guy. He's just not into meetups. I look forward to hanging out and eating sushi with him someday. It's sad to think that just because you disagree with someone's politics or something that they've posted, which you may or may not have taken out of context, that you would shun them at a meetup. Seems to be very immature behavior to me.
posted by Juicylicious at 11:52 PM on May 28, 2005
By the by, I've had the opportunity to converse with PP and he's a nice guy. He's just not into meetups. I look forward to hanging out and eating sushi with him someday. It's sad to think that just because you disagree with someone's politics or something that they've posted, which you may or may not have taken out of context, that you would shun them at a meetup. Seems to be very immature behavior to me.
posted by Juicylicious at 11:52 PM on May 28, 2005
It is a lot harder to confuse someone's race/gender at a meetup than online. Oftentimes sworn enemies become friends. Faceless newbs become stars. jonmc becomes drunk. The farmer takes a wife. The barber takes a poll.
We're in this together, folks.
posted by Eideteker at 12:13 AM on May 29, 2005 [1 favorite]
We're in this together, folks.
posted by Eideteker at 12:13 AM on May 29, 2005 [1 favorite]
Not specifically related to MeFi, as I've yet to attend a meet-up, (missed one just this week, dagnabbit!) but I joined Tribe.net back in the day in hopes of gaining the ever elusive MeFi membership. Though I'd read lots of online communities, I had never joined one. A badly broken leg changed that.
Since then, I've spent quite a bit of time in online communities and Tribe, specifically, is incredibly active IRL. So active, in fact, that I made the decision to move from Portland, OR to San Francisco based on the strength and number of the friendships I had developed. Nearly a year and a half later, I remain convinced that it was the best decision I've ever made. Amidst a group of people who have formed a fantastic network of friends online and developed those relationships offline.
That said, I'm quite interested in the online vs IRL dynamic. Beyond the increased capacity for misunderstanding that comes with a limited and somewhat static form of communication, I am absolutely fascinated by the personality shifts that take place in some individuals. At times, the terms 'disassociative' and 'pathological' are not too strong. I know people - and know them well - who are warm and personable and perform all manners of social graces in person, who can't, for the life of themselves, behave reasonably and consistently online. Even after repeatedly alienating and losing friends. It's an odd phenomenon.
Something else that piques my curiosity is the fact that the people that I initially gravitated toward online were often not the people that I ended up bonding with IRL when meet ups took place. Again, it seems that the keyboard and monitor end up being a catalyst for some people's personalities, for better or worse, in ways that don't take place IRL.
Because people really do end up being genuinely nice in person (then again, I'd talk to a lamp post given enough time...say, 5 minutes), the switch confuses me. Especially as it seems so counterproductive. The "I'm not a dick in real life, I just play one online" thing only goes so far when you're as likely as not to see those you may have offended at a party, on the bus, in the produce section, etc. As Eideteker so eloquently pointed out, we are in this this together, hence, I just don't get why you'd want to play the jerk card to begin with. To each his own, but I remain entirely baffled.
However, I still maintain that people naturally tend toward their better/best selves and are loads of fun face to face. And there's nothing like getting to know and engage with someone who was once only a name on a screen in real time, see their reactions, hear their inflections and catch their body language. It gives a pretty cool perspective on this weird process we call life and our endless drive for establishing community and how we'll carve it out of anything.
posted by Frisbee Girl at 4:15 AM on May 29, 2005
Since then, I've spent quite a bit of time in online communities and Tribe, specifically, is incredibly active IRL. So active, in fact, that I made the decision to move from Portland, OR to San Francisco based on the strength and number of the friendships I had developed. Nearly a year and a half later, I remain convinced that it was the best decision I've ever made. Amidst a group of people who have formed a fantastic network of friends online and developed those relationships offline.
That said, I'm quite interested in the online vs IRL dynamic. Beyond the increased capacity for misunderstanding that comes with a limited and somewhat static form of communication, I am absolutely fascinated by the personality shifts that take place in some individuals. At times, the terms 'disassociative' and 'pathological' are not too strong. I know people - and know them well - who are warm and personable and perform all manners of social graces in person, who can't, for the life of themselves, behave reasonably and consistently online. Even after repeatedly alienating and losing friends. It's an odd phenomenon.
Something else that piques my curiosity is the fact that the people that I initially gravitated toward online were often not the people that I ended up bonding with IRL when meet ups took place. Again, it seems that the keyboard and monitor end up being a catalyst for some people's personalities, for better or worse, in ways that don't take place IRL.
Because people really do end up being genuinely nice in person (then again, I'd talk to a lamp post given enough time...say, 5 minutes), the switch confuses me. Especially as it seems so counterproductive. The "I'm not a dick in real life, I just play one online" thing only goes so far when you're as likely as not to see those you may have offended at a party, on the bus, in the produce section, etc. As Eideteker so eloquently pointed out, we are in this this together, hence, I just don't get why you'd want to play the jerk card to begin with. To each his own, but I remain entirely baffled.
However, I still maintain that people naturally tend toward their better/best selves and are loads of fun face to face. And there's nothing like getting to know and engage with someone who was once only a name on a screen in real time, see their reactions, hear their inflections and catch their body language. It gives a pretty cool perspective on this weird process we call life and our endless drive for establishing community and how we'll carve it out of anything.
posted by Frisbee Girl at 4:15 AM on May 29, 2005
(Look at my profile: you're supposed to be sending me job offers.)
;)
posted by orthogonality at 11:10 AM PST on May 28 [!]
Ok, I looked at your profile. Sadly, I am one of those fine folks who are still using Windows 3.1 and think that AOL is the coolest thing when it tells me I've got mail. We are looking for a good pastry chef if you're interested, otherwise, I'll just keep sending checks.
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 9:41 AM on May 29, 2005
;)
posted by orthogonality at 11:10 AM PST on May 28 [!]
Ok, I looked at your profile. Sadly, I am one of those fine folks who are still using Windows 3.1 and think that AOL is the coolest thing when it tells me I've got mail. We are looking for a good pastry chef if you're interested, otherwise, I'll just keep sending checks.
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 9:41 AM on May 29, 2005
Juicylicious writes "I realized that the people that who I enjoyed talking with the most were ones that don't post much."
Uh-oh.
posted by orthogonality at 11:26 AM on May 29, 2005
Uh-oh.
posted by orthogonality at 11:26 AM on May 29, 2005
Eideteker : "jonmc becomes drunk"
uh...becomes drunk?
;)
posted by graventy at 11:42 AM on May 29, 2005
uh...becomes drunk?
;)
posted by graventy at 11:42 AM on May 29, 2005
I've been to, what, half a dozen MeFi meetups and never seen anything vaguely resembling this. Everybody was perfectly nice. Which is why this:
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
did surprise me.
Well, with such a similar membership, and the fact I'm sure 99 percent of metafilter would be nice to one another face to face regardless of differences, this thread is proof alone that if you don't tow the party, errr, metafilter line, you 'might' not be welcomed.
i've never seen paris at any meetups here at all.
That's probably a good thing Amberglow.
Pure class.
posted by justgary at 12:04 PM on May 29, 2005
I know of one specific meetup where everyone was friendly until one person was identified as their online nick and the evening became decidedly frigid and unwelcoming to that person.
did surprise me.
Well, with such a similar membership, and the fact I'm sure 99 percent of metafilter would be nice to one another face to face regardless of differences, this thread is proof alone that if you don't tow the party, errr, metafilter line, you 'might' not be welcomed.
i've never seen paris at any meetups here at all.
That's probably a good thing Amberglow.
Pure class.
posted by justgary at 12:04 PM on May 29, 2005
I believe I've been to four Toronto meetups, and I had a really good time at all of them, even the one jacquilynne described at which four people stormed out. MeFites are good people by and large - educated, intelligent, articulate, well-mannered, fun. I've found that if I were familiar with someone's posting style, their personality and behaviour was pretty much exactly what I expected, though their physical appearance is often a surprise.
Most people can't act that well, and even when they can, they can't keep it up for very long. I do believe that what you see of people on Metafilter is a genuine slice of them, though it's far from being the whole pie.
posted by orange swan at 1:18 PM on May 29, 2005
Most people can't act that well, and even when they can, they can't keep it up for very long. I do believe that what you see of people on Metafilter is a genuine slice of them, though it's far from being the whole pie.
posted by orange swan at 1:18 PM on May 29, 2005
That's probably a good thing Amberglow.
Pure class.
posted by justgary at 12:04 PM PST on May 29
Funny, I was just about to write a post about how in an effort to synch my real life personality with my online persona, I often delete posts that I've written because I feel like my first reactions to many things people say on this forum are too negative -- at least I've slowly learned to do this.
There are of course consequences: my MetaFilter presence (in terms of quantity of posts) and persona (in terms of 'making my mark') are greatly diminished. Still, for me it has become more important not to aggravate myself and others online than to give in to my baser impulses to insult or provoke people I may never get the chance to meet IRL. I think the the dissonance between online and IRL attitudes that has Frisbee girl puzzled is caused precisely by how easy it is to give in to that impulse when you are online. Often what we post is not well thought out, mostly because we feel that there are no consecuences if we 'go too far'. Not true IRL, where consequences abound - like Balisong's fist.
It's ironic that somebody would for all intents and purposes say that I have no class because I would prefer to avoid PP IRL. I guess you assume I feel this way because I don't share his political ideology, this is not true. I would avoid him IRL because he has repeatedly shown that he doesn't believe in restraining the yucky part of himself online, in facty he get's off on it. Don't belive me? Go back and read his contributions to just about any political thread, but specifically threads relating to Iraq or the Palestine-Israel conflict. Like Frisbee Girl, I'm puzzled that somebody would be interested in presenting themselves to a community, virtual or real, in those terms. Frankly, I'd rather have a beer with Amberglow because he's a genuinely nice guy online and I bet he's even nicer IRL.
Even more ironic: In response to your earlier defense of PP, my first reaction was to write a far more critical post about him, and those like him, but I deleted it and settled for 'that's probably a good thing'.
posted by sic at 2:28 PM on May 29, 2005
Pure class.
posted by justgary at 12:04 PM PST on May 29
Funny, I was just about to write a post about how in an effort to synch my real life personality with my online persona, I often delete posts that I've written because I feel like my first reactions to many things people say on this forum are too negative -- at least I've slowly learned to do this.
There are of course consequences: my MetaFilter presence (in terms of quantity of posts) and persona (in terms of 'making my mark') are greatly diminished. Still, for me it has become more important not to aggravate myself and others online than to give in to my baser impulses to insult or provoke people I may never get the chance to meet IRL. I think the the dissonance between online and IRL attitudes that has Frisbee girl puzzled is caused precisely by how easy it is to give in to that impulse when you are online. Often what we post is not well thought out, mostly because we feel that there are no consecuences if we 'go too far'. Not true IRL, where consequences abound - like Balisong's fist.
It's ironic that somebody would for all intents and purposes say that I have no class because I would prefer to avoid PP IRL. I guess you assume I feel this way because I don't share his political ideology, this is not true. I would avoid him IRL because he has repeatedly shown that he doesn't believe in restraining the yucky part of himself online, in facty he get's off on it. Don't belive me? Go back and read his contributions to just about any political thread, but specifically threads relating to Iraq or the Palestine-Israel conflict. Like Frisbee Girl, I'm puzzled that somebody would be interested in presenting themselves to a community, virtual or real, in those terms. Frankly, I'd rather have a beer with Amberglow because he's a genuinely nice guy online and I bet he's even nicer IRL.
Even more ironic: In response to your earlier defense of PP, my first reaction was to write a far more critical post about him, and those like him, but I deleted it and settled for 'that's probably a good thing'.
posted by sic at 2:28 PM on May 29, 2005
this thread is proof alone that if you don't tow the party, errr, metafilter line, you 'might' not be welcomed
I have no idea what this means.
I would avoid him IRL because he has repeatedly shown that he doesn't believe in restraining the yucky part of himself online
So what? As people have been saying, people's online persona is often very different from their in-person selves. I haven't enjoyed much of ParisParamus's MeFi shtick, but I'd be happy to have a beer with him. Unless someone's actually insulted you personally, I don't understand the "he said bad things on the internet so I hate him!" mentality.
posted by languagehat at 5:19 PM on May 29, 2005
I have no idea what this means.
I would avoid him IRL because he has repeatedly shown that he doesn't believe in restraining the yucky part of himself online
So what? As people have been saying, people's online persona is often very different from their in-person selves. I haven't enjoyed much of ParisParamus's MeFi shtick, but I'd be happy to have a beer with him. Unless someone's actually insulted you personally, I don't understand the "he said bad things on the internet so I hate him!" mentality.
posted by languagehat at 5:19 PM on May 29, 2005
I'd also be fine meeting PP in person. Part of his shtick here is that he claims to be a peace-loving urbanite in real life, in the Big Picture, although he admits his views fall to the right of many here. I'd like to see if there's any truth to that.
posted by scarabic at 7:03 PM on May 29, 2005
posted by scarabic at 7:03 PM on May 29, 2005
This thread has persuaded me to organize a Houston meetup -- partly the assurance that people are nicer offline, but mostly the stories of quiet mefites being cool in person. Should I just make a MeTa post saying "Houston meetup Saturday, help me pick the place, choices are A, B, and C"? If I post it tonight or tomorrow, should I make it this coming weekend? Is that enough notice?
posted by NickDouglas at 8:11 PM on May 29, 2005
posted by NickDouglas at 8:11 PM on May 29, 2005
PP has claimed to be "peace-loving"!? He must have changed his shtick mightly since I've tuned him out, because when I was paying attention he was constantly calling for war and blood!
By the way, I do realize that it's a shtick and Languagehat, I don't hate him - I don't belive I said that - but I would definitely avoid him in a real life situation, mostly because if he were to act similarly IRL I wouldn't have a delete button to fall back on.
That said, if I were to go to a meetup and start talking with someone who I thought was interesting and nice, I wouldn't walk away from them in disgust if they later revealed that they were say, Hama7, for instance. I would, however, at some point ask them why, for God's sake, why?
posted by sic at 3:00 AM on May 30, 2005
By the way, I do realize that it's a shtick and Languagehat, I don't hate him - I don't belive I said that - but I would definitely avoid him in a real life situation, mostly because if he were to act similarly IRL I wouldn't have a delete button to fall back on.
That said, if I were to go to a meetup and start talking with someone who I thought was interesting and nice, I wouldn't walk away from them in disgust if they later revealed that they were say, Hama7, for instance. I would, however, at some point ask them why, for God's sake, why?
posted by sic at 3:00 AM on May 30, 2005
Should I just make a MeTa post saying "Houston meetup Saturday, help me pick the place, choices are A, B, and C"?
Yes, but if you change your mind, be sure to make a separate MeTa post starting: "CANCELLED! I don't want to talk to any of you, so go away!"
if he were to act similarly IRL I wouldn't have a delete button to fall back on.
Um, you don't have one here either. And don't you run the risk of talking with jerks every time you go out? I really don't think the risk is any higher with MeFites. Seriously, I repeat: I've never had any unpleasant experiences at MeFi meetups, and I've never heard of any of "the usual suspects" acting like jerks at meetups. Presumably if they were that antisocial, they wouldn't go in the first place.
posted by languagehat at 6:24 AM on May 30, 2005
Yes, but if you change your mind, be sure to make a separate MeTa post starting: "CANCELLED! I don't want to talk to any of you, so go away!"
if he were to act similarly IRL I wouldn't have a delete button to fall back on.
Um, you don't have one here either. And don't you run the risk of talking with jerks every time you go out? I really don't think the risk is any higher with MeFites. Seriously, I repeat: I've never had any unpleasant experiences at MeFi meetups, and I've never heard of any of "the usual suspects" acting like jerks at meetups. Presumably if they were that antisocial, they wouldn't go in the first place.
posted by languagehat at 6:24 AM on May 30, 2005
I've been once, and never will attend again. To clarify jacquilynne and orange swan's comments above, only two of the people that "stormed-out" were members. The other two went along on a lark since we told them it would be a nice evening.
Well, it was interesting nonetheless.
The main part of the argument that resulted in us leaving was between a member and one of the non-members that came with me. Admittedly, my friend typically walks around with tongue-in-cheek, and even post-meetup, I was quite upset with how he handled the situation and felt that the crisis could have been averted if he would have just kept his mouth shut.
That being said, I was not entirely blame-free for what happened. There is no excuse for my behaviour other than I was quite shaken after being called a bigot, a term that did not sit well with me after a few drinks. It was upsetting since I did enjoy a few of the conversations prior to the argument and most of members I did meet that night were very nice (unfortunately, I did not get a chance to meet everyone).
I am happy to hear that this is not typical of MeFi meet-ups.
Generally speaking, I've always tried to avoid meet-ups of any kind (regardless of site) since I usually prefer to meet people in person first, and not online. This is just a personal preference.
posted by purephase at 9:29 AM on May 30, 2005
Well, it was interesting nonetheless.
The main part of the argument that resulted in us leaving was between a member and one of the non-members that came with me. Admittedly, my friend typically walks around with tongue-in-cheek, and even post-meetup, I was quite upset with how he handled the situation and felt that the crisis could have been averted if he would have just kept his mouth shut.
That being said, I was not entirely blame-free for what happened. There is no excuse for my behaviour other than I was quite shaken after being called a bigot, a term that did not sit well with me after a few drinks. It was upsetting since I did enjoy a few of the conversations prior to the argument and most of members I did meet that night were very nice (unfortunately, I did not get a chance to meet everyone).
I am happy to hear that this is not typical of MeFi meet-ups.
Generally speaking, I've always tried to avoid meet-ups of any kind (regardless of site) since I usually prefer to meet people in person first, and not online. This is just a personal preference.
posted by purephase at 9:29 AM on May 30, 2005
NickDouglas, I'd be down for a Houston thing. Only my utter lack of organization skills has prevented myself for trying to get the meetup on.
I'd say we'd want at least a weeks notice, though. I'd be a cosmic shame if we couldn't get the WolfDaddy involved. Plus a certain Dallas Mefite has a place on my pull-out if he wants to make the drive (and there's floorspace for anyone else who wants it.) But please, no cat allergies. That would be bad.
posted by Cyrano at 9:34 AM on May 30, 2005
I'd say we'd want at least a weeks notice, though. I'd be a cosmic shame if we couldn't get the WolfDaddy involved. Plus a certain Dallas Mefite has a place on my pull-out if he wants to make the drive (and there's floorspace for anyone else who wants it.) But please, no cat allergies. That would be bad.
posted by Cyrano at 9:34 AM on May 30, 2005
what's y2Karl like in real life?
Does he speak really softly?
posted by homunculus at 12:51 PM on May 30, 2005
Does he speak really softly?
posted by homunculus at 12:51 PM on May 30, 2005
this thread is proof alone that if you don't tow the party, errr, metafilter line, you 'might' not be welcomed
Oh, bullshit. The famed LA meetup from just a couple of weeks ago ought to put that lie to rest. Asparagirl -- who is perfectly open about her politics and who was probably to the right of most of the rest of us that night -- was not only welcome, but she was one of the delights of the evening. To my knowledge (or at least within my earshot), politics was barely discussed at all (aside from a brief round of Dick Cheney impersonations courtesy of splatta and plutor after I mentioned my dad grew up with Cheney in Casper, Wyoming), but had the conversation turned that way I feel utterly confident in saying we would have all had a spirited but perfectly respectful discussion/debate among friends. So with all due respect, I'd like to politely suggest you take that tired "liberals are bigots because they're incapable of speaking civilly to conservatives on principle" meme and put it out to pasture.
Or to put in another way, if some people doubt their ability to cheerfully lift a glass with PP IRL, believe it or not but it's less about his politics per se and more because he's frequently behaved wretchedly here in the service of his politics. (There are a few left-wingers here too who've created exactly the same conundrum for themselves among other members as well). You sow bad will and disrespect for several years, and guess what? You're probably not going to reap an evening's worth of warm pats on the back.
posted by scody at 11:17 PM on May 30, 2005
Oh, bullshit. The famed LA meetup from just a couple of weeks ago ought to put that lie to rest. Asparagirl -- who is perfectly open about her politics and who was probably to the right of most of the rest of us that night -- was not only welcome, but she was one of the delights of the evening. To my knowledge (or at least within my earshot), politics was barely discussed at all (aside from a brief round of Dick Cheney impersonations courtesy of splatta and plutor after I mentioned my dad grew up with Cheney in Casper, Wyoming), but had the conversation turned that way I feel utterly confident in saying we would have all had a spirited but perfectly respectful discussion/debate among friends. So with all due respect, I'd like to politely suggest you take that tired "liberals are bigots because they're incapable of speaking civilly to conservatives on principle" meme and put it out to pasture.
Or to put in another way, if some people doubt their ability to cheerfully lift a glass with PP IRL, believe it or not but it's less about his politics per se and more because he's frequently behaved wretchedly here in the service of his politics. (There are a few left-wingers here too who've created exactly the same conundrum for themselves among other members as well). You sow bad will and disrespect for several years, and guess what? You're probably not going to reap an evening's worth of warm pats on the back.
posted by scody at 11:17 PM on May 30, 2005
this thread is proof alone that if you don't tow the party, errr, metafilter line, you 'might' not be welcomed
For the love of all that's holy, people, it's not "tow the line," it's "toe the line." You're not pulling a barge, you're walking an exact course.
posted by anapestic at 8:11 AM on May 31, 2005
For the love of all that's holy, people, it's not "tow the line," it's "toe the line." You're not pulling a barge, you're walking an exact course.
posted by anapestic at 8:11 AM on May 31, 2005
Anapestic, that was a delight. And now you MUST come to a Toronto meetup sometime. We won't make you tow OR toe anything, though if you want to you can certainly please yourself.
posted by orange swan at 11:26 AM on May 31, 2005
posted by orange swan at 11:26 AM on May 31, 2005
I, with my vast experience of a singular meetup, would have to say it was really great fun. And...Thomscatspike is a brilliant conversationalist with many funny stories. :)
I am probably weirder in real life than online. Also, shorter.
posted by dejah420 at 11:48 AM on May 31, 2005
I am probably weirder in real life than online. Also, shorter.
posted by dejah420 at 11:48 AM on May 31, 2005
Not to be contrary but I always thought it was toe the line as in line in the sand so I checked here:
Yes, it's toe, not tow, a common mistake. Toe the line or mark dates to 1813 and is a metaphorical reference to either the start of a race, the runners conforming to the starter's orders, or to soldiers and sailors standing in formation. Many of the early citations are from the Royal Navy and this may be the source of the phrase, although this is not certain.
(Source: Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition)
Anyway, definitely not tow.
posted by vapidave at 2:16 PM on May 31, 2005
Yes, it's toe, not tow, a common mistake. Toe the line or mark dates to 1813 and is a metaphorical reference to either the start of a race, the runners conforming to the starter's orders, or to soldiers and sailors standing in formation. Many of the early citations are from the Royal Navy and this may be the source of the phrase, although this is not certain.
(Source: Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition)
Anyway, definitely not tow.
posted by vapidave at 2:16 PM on May 31, 2005
The main reason I was asking was I needed to know if it was socially unacceptable if find someone like Dios, S@L, PP or the like, Do I punch them in the mouth FIRST, THEN hand them a beer,
Or do we get all snockered up first, spout off our mouths, and THEN get into a brawl.
So this whole thread exists to make your point about how you would like to assault me because you don't like what I have to say about politics? Get a fucking life.
If your political views are that sacrosanct that you develop personal hatred towards those who argue in the alternative, then you need to get a fucking life. Sounds like you are way too emotionally involved in your politics. I don't see how you can be so emotionally invested in the acceptance of a political viewpoint that you feel the compulsion to punch someone who argues against that. Where does this bitterness come from? It's pathetic. And so are you for suggesting you would like to assault me.
The character and nature of a person is not defined by whether they thing privatizing social security is a good thing or not. People, especially in social situations, are defined by their manners and actions. But if you are so concerned with what someone's view on X policy matter that you do not treat them with the same respect they show you, then you are a loathsome individual.
Well, having been a participant of the great MeFi Sleepover in Dallas last year AND having been to a meetup with Dios, I can say that I have never been around any mefite that I wanted to punch in the face.
posted by thatothrgirl at 7:17 PM PST on May 28
Well, I have to say that not only did I not want to punch tog, I very much enjoyed her company. I don't think we discussed anything political. We had a good time and got probably too drunk. And I hope tog comes down again. But this time, she will be dancing on the table.
posted by dios at 9:46 AM on June 1, 2005
Or do we get all snockered up first, spout off our mouths, and THEN get into a brawl.
So this whole thread exists to make your point about how you would like to assault me because you don't like what I have to say about politics? Get a fucking life.
If your political views are that sacrosanct that you develop personal hatred towards those who argue in the alternative, then you need to get a fucking life. Sounds like you are way too emotionally involved in your politics. I don't see how you can be so emotionally invested in the acceptance of a political viewpoint that you feel the compulsion to punch someone who argues against that. Where does this bitterness come from? It's pathetic. And so are you for suggesting you would like to assault me.
The character and nature of a person is not defined by whether they thing privatizing social security is a good thing or not. People, especially in social situations, are defined by their manners and actions. But if you are so concerned with what someone's view on X policy matter that you do not treat them with the same respect they show you, then you are a loathsome individual.
Well, having been a participant of the great MeFi Sleepover in Dallas last year AND having been to a meetup with Dios, I can say that I have never been around any mefite that I wanted to punch in the face.
posted by thatothrgirl at 7:17 PM PST on May 28
Well, I have to say that not only did I not want to punch tog, I very much enjoyed her company. I don't think we discussed anything political. We had a good time and got probably too drunk. And I hope tog comes down again. But this time, she will be dancing on the table.
posted by dios at 9:46 AM on June 1, 2005
Whoa, dios, settle down man. He was phrasing his motive humorously. And this thread has helped a lot of us look forward to meetups we formerly dreaded. It even gave me the confidence to try organizing a Houston meetup despite the pileons I've gotten. Quite an effective MeTa thread.
posted by NickDouglas at 8:49 PM on June 1, 2005
posted by NickDouglas at 8:49 PM on June 1, 2005
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A lot of the people I've met - but certainly not all or most of them - tended to be on the the more shy side in-person.
At least until the ice was broken. Then it's just one big nerd party.
People got snarky, but not confrontational or antagonistic. There's a lot more 'bandwidth' in 'real' life, so it's certainly a lot easier to be sarcastic, witty, funny, empathic, serious, sincere, or any and all of the above without being so easily misunderstood or misread.
Yeah, there are conflicts. Even some snarkiness. But not nearly as much of the antagonism that happens online. But it seems like a vast amount of online antagonism isn't a product of anonymity, but rather from miscommunication.
There's even IRL versions of trolling and trollishness, but it's probably more subtle and less obvious due to the increased bandwidth and detail available, and due to the consciously or subconsciously perceived potential for real violence or physical conflict.
Trolling isn't a new social or psychological problem, it's just the new name we give the behavior online. There have been people that have been 'deflationary' - or simply assholes - since there have been people. And it's pretty likely almost everyone has been such at least once - everyone has had a bad day, no one is perfect. (Though some are certainly nicer than others.)
(And one of the reasons why it's easier to label and identify such behavior as trolling online is that in the online space there's an entirely new feature to human interaction: The real-time permanent record of dialog. The average human can't go back and re-experience dialogs in exacting detail like you can online.)
So, for your question about how much MeTa spills over into real life, you should ask how much real life spills over into MeTa. I assume you're speaking of the horde mentality, the callouts, the snarking, the outright rudeness. And/or the 'calling out'.
It happens just as much in real life, if not more. But it's less obvious. And I think that the torch-and-pitchfork mobbing that happens on MeTa is really often quite tongue-in-cheek and self-aware and self-referential. It's really much less brutal than, say, the subtle torture of a really bad bout of office politics. Or even worse, real politics or war.
Though in real life it seems like it's less likely that someone who gets called out on something that's plainly errant or ludicrous is going to stand up and defend themselves blue in the face, or that someone in real life is going to endlessly tilt at windmills like you'll find online.
Which isn't an advocacy for conformity at all. Conversely, when the group is unobviously errant or wrong, it's much easier and less personally risky to spend your time trying to disprove it and change worldviews - hopefully for the better.
posted by loquacious at 1:16 AM on May 28, 2005