Static HTML Issues September 18, 2001 7:43 AM   Subscribe

How long will metafilter's static-html "crisis mode" last? It's become quite difficult to follow and participate in conversations without the "New: X" portion of the comments link.
posted by Mars Saxman to MetaFilter-Related at 7:43 AM (22 comments total)

I'm sure it will get back to normal when volume gets back to normal. As annoying as it is, I'd rather deal with it than no Mefi at all...
posted by revbrian at 9:58 AM on September 18, 2001


MEGADITTOES, Mars!

I dunno, is traffic still as bad as it was last week? Have you been watching the trends, Matt?

I suppose there is still a much larger load being placed on the server, though. I don't mind the static rendering so much, but why can't it be in 10pt font? :)
posted by daveadams at 11:29 AM on September 18, 2001


In a previous thread(can't find right now), Matt mentioned he'd consider making the main page live again when he saw fewer than 40 new posts a day.
posted by Su at 3:40 PM on September 18, 2001


I'm kind of curious to know if the search function isn't lagging everything down. Considering how easy it is to post a duplicate or near duplicate topic because of our new ALL NEWS ALL THE TIME format.

Things are slowing down though.
posted by skallas at 8:10 PM on September 18, 2001


In a previous thread(can't find right now), Matt mentioned he'd consider making the main page live again when he saw fewer than 40 new posts a day.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, are we sure this is ever going to happen? At least half of the current posts are by newbies from last week, many of whom only know MetaFilter as a place for breaking news (*sob*) with a bad signal to noise ratio (*sob*).
posted by lia at 10:10 AM on September 19, 2001


I'll do something this evening, but for now (and since last week), you can use the original index page backdoor here:

http://www.metafilter.com/index.cfm
posted by mathowie (staff) at 2:29 PM on September 19, 2001


Not true at all. Out of today's posts(25 ATM), I only found five that were by anyone with a number above 10000, and that could actually go back to the first of August(I'm not going to bother checking every user page).
Yesterday(52 threads), using the same 10K criteria, I found 15, but the ratio of posts not directly related was a bit higher, too.

It will eventually die down, but it doesn't seem to be coming up just yet, and that might be something that needs to be taken into account. Non-WTC threads are slowly coming back, but are unfortunately being lost in everything else. Maybe the threshhold number will end up being higher, but it's Matt's database and he knows what it can handle.

The "blame the newbies" bit really needs to stop. It's been smacked down several times already, and is getting tired. The fact you got to the sign-up form first, 207, doesn't make you any better a user than today's 11671, just more experienced. You have no idea how long those people may have been reading, and several of them have admitted to just having lurked for a long time now.
Why not instead take a little time to thank the newbies who are making good contributions by posting a quick ref to their post here in MetaTalk, as some have been doing?
posted by Su at 2:52 PM on September 19, 2001


Oh, great, nice timing.
posted by Su at 2:53 PM on September 19, 2001


What?
posted by sylloge at 3:16 PM on September 19, 2001


I'd gotten distracted while typing in my rant above, during which Matt added his response that he'd do something about the front page tonight.
posted by Su at 4:14 PM on September 19, 2001


Ah.
posted by sylloge at 5:03 PM on September 19, 2001


I like it when you call people by their number, 1814. I think we should all do it. What do you think, 364? :)
posted by rodii at 7:26 PM on September 19, 2001


666 might not be too keen...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:54 PM on September 19, 2001


I'm a little nervous about mine these days...
posted by fooljay at 8:29 PM on September 19, 2001


I took Matt up on checking out the original home page, and I have to say the Meta (Meta?) Data scared the hell out of me:

There have been 522 links and 9417 comments posted since your last visit

Wow!
posted by willnot at 11:14 PM on September 19, 2001


Rodii(or Unit1244, if you prefer): It was done to support my point, in case nobody felt like mousing over Lia's nick *poke* A lot of this creeching seems to be coming from the 3digit crowd.
Getting really tired of the numbers game. I'm getting to like the idea that was brought up in another thread about doing a random scramble on existing user numbers, or just concealing them altogether.

posted by Su at 12:14 AM on September 20, 2001


The fact you got to the sign-up form first, 207, doesn't make you any better a user than today's 11671, just more experienced.

In general, more experienced users are better MetaFilter users, 1814.
posted by rcade at 6:56 AM on September 20, 2001


What rogers said (and cCranium in another thread); also:

You have no idea how long those people may have been reading, and several of them have admitted to just having lurked for a long time now.

I'm wondering why many people who say they've been lurking for a long time don't know basic things about MeFi, like the location (or existence, even!) of MetaTalk, the purpose of the search button, that name-calling is simply not done, that not everyone here is from the U.S.A., that double posts suck ass, or that this really isn't a breaking news place? What's your answer, Su?

Why not instead take a little time to thank the newbies who are making good contributions by posting a quick ref to their post here in MetaTalk, as some have been doing?

Why single people out for praise for doing what they're supposed to be doing in the first place?

If you feel your four digit number makes you lowly in people's eyes, then participate more -- you can whine all you want about elitism, but it doesn't count for anything if you're not actually pulling your weight. For example, the user formerly known as clavdivs got here long after you did and no one gives a damn about his usernumber. Not that I even bothered to mouse over yours until you pointed mine out, which to me says a lot about which one of us is more status-conscious in the context of this conversation.
posted by lia at 7:38 AM on September 20, 2001


Oy. Don't know, or don't use? I didn't bother saying anything in MetaTalk for a very long time. Knew exactly where it was. Wasn't interested, but now this is getting stupid. I'd also wonder how many of these people are simply turned off by the bitching in here. I have had minimal interest in "net community" until relatively recently, and in fact had a pretty low view of it. It's not much improving.
I moderate(in a very loose sense) a forum for another site that is reaching a similar critical mass in usership, and it's depressing to watch. But those of us in "power" are being more proactive in figuring out what's going wrong than I see here. And that doesn't even bring Matt into it. From what I've seen, he stays relatively quiet in matters like that, and simply does what needs to be done. But there is a definite group of old-timers here that have either been elevated with no public statement, or done it for themselves who see fit to shove anyone around who does something they don't like. There are some others who actually do it well, do it politely, and provide example. Those are the ones I can respect. "Take it to MetaTalk" means nothing to the same people you say don't know where it is. Yes, the place self-polices, but there are a couple of vigilantes now, too.

Everyone not being from the US is irrelevant. The posts will come from wherever the news/story is happening. Right now, the WTC is the biggest thing around. Deal. I'm not happy about it either.
Re Breaking news: I've already shown most of the posts are not, in fact, coming from the newbies being blamed. If you want to do something about it, hijack the thread. Find out what it relates to and try to kill it by posting a link to the previous thread you believe it should have been posted in.

Why single people out for praise for doing what they're supposed to be doing in the first place?
Actually, you're looking at it from the wrong direction. The reason is that the ones who are doing what they're supposed to be doing are getting thrown in with all the others because a blanket statement is being made. In a few of the WTC threads some of the older users have made some serious screwups, either in usership, or some very wrong things they've said. They were swiftly called out by name(and at least one spawned its own MeTa thread), but when you get a couple of more recent people, it turns into, "All these newbies have no idea what they're talking about/doing."

My number doesn't mean anything to me. I took a long time to actually register, and I still have a relatively low one. If I'd signed up when I first got here, it would have been much lower, and I'd be happy to redo it today if I could get this same name. I only really found out what it was about a week ago so if you think this is some sort of status quest, you couldn't be more wrong. Why is it that the people who actually are throwing status around are the ones accusing others of grabbing for it?
Yes, you got here first, and yes, as cCranium said, you have contributed more to keeping this place around, etc. Thanks. Happy now? Get over it, let some other people in the clubhouse, and take the time to teach them.

posted by Su at 10:29 AM on September 20, 2001


> do it well, do it politely, and provide example

Surely this goes both ways. What did you have in mind when you said:

- "a blanket statement is being made"

- "who see fit to shove anyone around who does something they don't like."

I've seen a lot more bile rising in the name of protecting newbies, elitism, lack of democracy, etc. than I have seen directed at newbies. Why are people getting so upset?

After I posted that too-many-posts-per-day thread a few people flipped. Lots of hurt feelings, recriminations, and so on. What's the deal? I have to say I was a little dumbfounded.
posted by sylloge at 1:28 PM on September 20, 2001


Actually, "provide example" was meant as a statement of the behavior of the people doing it well. Sorry if that was unclear, but to answer anyway:

A blanket statement is being made by usage of the near-meaningless term "newbies", despite the fact that there have been several mentions of very good input by some of these newbies. I thought the explanation I gave regarding older users being called out specifically was clear enough. The events I referred to were rather negative, and I'd really rather not revisit them. I'm sure you've all run across at least one of them.
What I don't get is that most of the screaming seems to be based around some sort of confusion between contribution and respect, and somehow blame for everything wrong with MeFi is coming out of it. I don't see that the overall level of respect has changed, if you take into account the massive increase in traffic. There've been some blowups and people are being louder than usual in some cases, but I'm willing to say it's about where it's always been. So respect doesn't matter here.

The same question of scale comes up in terms of contribution: A lot of new people signed up rapidly when that thing last week happened, so there was a huge influx of people who might not know all there is to know. For that matter, a valid question could be raised as to what really defines the need for a new thread. A new article on the same topic? Does it have to be from a different periodical/site? Different author? Radically different point of view? It's another judgement call, for guidelines that are not defined anywhere, so in the end, it's another question of numbers. People are mainly pissed that there are so many threads, and they can't keep up with, or find what they want.

As for the argument that MeFi is not a place for breaking news, well, I don't see anything to that effect here. All I found is something about posting links, and that's what is happening. Point is that it did turn into a source for breaking news on the 11th, and it still has not died down, unfortunately.

All I see is numbers. A large number of mostly uneducated new users, and a small number of educated older ones, many of whom love this place, but have little ability to do anything about what's going on because there's not even a list of "commandments" they can point to. And then there's Matt, who right now is probably struggling just to keep the thing running.

No reason to protect newbies, just quit slamming them. No reason for a higher class(unless officially as mods), because there are some good new users. I actually don't even agree with the idea of mods; it seems contrary to the place. There are, that I'm aware of, VERY few checks in the system, and that seems by design. Matt can delete a thread, Matt can delete a user. Only Matt can do either of these things. Am I correct? It's worked fine for a long time. I do think that it has become necessary to have a long sit-down, and actually put the unwritten guidelines in writing, though.
posted by Su at 2:40 PM on September 20, 2001


I've seen a lot more bile rising in the name of protecting newbies, elitism, lack of democracy, etc. than I have seen directed at newbies. Why are people getting so upset?

sylloge is right. At the risk of being the official oldass-sucker round here my own experience is the exact opposite of su's description.

Something mysterious here at MeFi actually acculturates well-intentioned new members, with the right mix of toughness and "tendresse". (I'll spare you any Freud links, this time).

But, as with any club - specially one you can join without asking or being blackballed - older members, who created this thing we love and crave, should be respected and, above all, listened to.

It's quite easy to look up their histories and learn how they too went through the paces.

This is not just politeness, but intelligence as well. (I actually disagree there's a difference between the two, but that's another thread altogether).

Whenever I asked politely - about really boring-to-them things, which they must be apoplectic from repeating - I was always rewarded with altruistic answers.

It's all about attitudes. Newbimania - the silly "we're young; we're giddy; let's kill Daddy" sort of mentality - is just embarrassing(specially in the future, co-newbies!)and time-wasting.

You can read, you can comment, you can post. You will be read. You might even solicit some feedback. Surely that's a gift enough?

P.S. I know I've often said this before, elsewhere, but I just couldn't resist saying "as I've said before" because it unnewbifies me in some deeply satisfying way!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:35 PM on September 22, 2001


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