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pileon someone you disagree with
February 12, 2007 7:08 AM   Subscribe

In this thread (http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/58548) people are piling on jonmc simply because they do not agree with him..(MI)
posted by konolia to Etiquette/Policy at 7:08 AM (240 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

You can disagree with someone and that is fine-but quit bunnyfiring him.

By that I mean some of you are ganging up on him in a way that implies he needs to not be here, and that his reactions to your disagreements "prove it." I have seen this happen to others here and I think it is stupid and needs to stop. They are not extending the same courtesy to him as they would to other posters they prefer.

I'll be right back-this thread is useless without examples.
posted by konolia at 7:12 AM on February 12, 2007


I don't want to speak for him, but I would hazard a guess that jonmc is crusty enough to handle a pile-on without getting ruffled.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:14 AM on February 12, 2007


konolia, I'm a big boy. I can take care of myself, so thanks but no thanks, OK? I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, so the usual crap was not what I was in the mood for. A little more Coffee & Bailey's and I'll be fine.
posted by jonmc at 7:14 AM on February 12, 2007


(Sorry, Jonmc, this topic is larger than you. You are just the latest example.)


Jon said this:
That was dumb and contrived. They went looking for trouble and found it. This was the equivalent of walking into a biker bar and sayin 'you don't look so tough,' and then whining when you get stomped. Quite frankly I was rooting for the rednecks

Disagreement ensues, but of course this is Metafilter...but then:

jonmc, I'm really starting to get sick of you trying to dominate and steer the conversation. I now understand why you got a timeout on mecha. You really need to step away from the keyboard once in a while.
posted by knave at 9:50 AM EST on February 12 [+]

[(And I don't just mean in this thread.)
posted by knave at 9:50 AM EST on February 12 [+]
That was uncalled for.

Then we get this, posted by someone with no feel for irony or figure of speech:
Usually I lay off these sorts of posts as they achieve little, but jonmc I really have to take issue with you about your use of violence.

If you are so limited in your intellect that you cannot rise above harmless, albeit insulting, mockery, then you have an anger management problem and you need serious, professional help.

If you see personal violence as a legitimate response to all but the most extreme, personal danger and self-defence scenarios then I say again, you have an anger management problem and you need serious, professional help.

Seriously and sincerely - good luck with resolving your internal issues.
posted by mooders at 9:51 AM EST on February 12 [+]



This sort of crap needs to stop no matter who the target is.
posted by konolia at 7:18 AM on February 12, 2007


I'll be right back-this thread is useless without examples.

You may also wish to practice using the 'link' button while you're gone. Crap, too late.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 7:19 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is this the thread from last night where someone accuses him of being tipsy while commenting?
If so, I thought his sentiments lucid and concise.
He has the strength of ten men.
But it was kind of you to care, and I say that earnestly.
posted by Dizzy at 7:19 AM on February 12, 2007


mooders' Captain Freud comment was in response to jonmc saying he would enjoy, and have no problem with, punching in the face someone who mocked his musical taste. Context, konolia!

As for "bunnyfiring", just NO.
posted by matthewr at 7:21 AM on February 12, 2007


Anyway my point is that if someone is truly obnoxious, flag the post, email a mod, whatever.

But just because you do not agree with them and think you can gather a lynch mob is no reason for this sort of behavior.

All we have here are words on a screen and our reputations. It is ridiculously easy to start making someone else look worse than they are here-what I mean by that is, you might not like jonmc or dios or whoever, but if we keep on allowing schoolyard pileons whereupon someone becomes the site punching bag or scapegoat, that's just wrong.

Save the torches and pitchforks for real monsters, please. And they are not as common as one might think.
posted by konolia at 7:22 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Sorry, Jonmc, this topic is larger than you. You are just the latest example.

fucking martyrs, standing up for people who don't even want to stand up for themselves. if people have a problem with the way they're being treated, they don't need you to do it for them. they can post to metatalk too.

get off your soapbox.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 7:23 AM on February 12, 2007


matthewr, I said I was sorely tempted to punch him in the face. Am I committing a thoughtcrime? And as I said, with the size differential, a simple 'you got a problem, asshole?" would probably have been enough to shut him up.
posted by jonmc at 7:23 AM on February 12, 2007


(uranus, no link button in the meta post-I'm no webmonkey and I need all the easypeasy cheat buttons. But we all know how to cut and paste so it's all good.)
posted by konolia at 7:23 AM on February 12, 2007


no link button in the meta post

(Ah, apparently. That should be fixed.)
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 7:26 AM on February 12, 2007


get off your soapbox.

It's MY soapbox, and I like it here.

This issue affects my enjoyment of the site. I have seen it happen over and over and over and over and I finally reached the limits of my tolerance. Yes, I think of jonmc as a friend, but he is NOT the only one that this happens to, and I am tired of seeing it happen.
posted by konolia at 7:27 AM on February 12, 2007


konolia, is it true or false that jonmc can be contrarian in lots of threads? The comments you pasted here speak directly to that. It's not a pile-on, it's a "please stop doing this everywhere" request.

Doing what jonmc does leads to frustration on the part of other users that are tired of seeing him start "everyone vs. jonmc" arguments seemingly in several places at once. jonmc, I know sometimes that's your modus operandi, but it gets old for everyone involved.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:27 AM on February 12, 2007 [10 favorites]


Excellent! Another opportunity to engage in robust but civil and generous-spirited debate about community norms, in which all concerned will rise above passing petty differences, question themselves sincerely and ultimately come a deeper understanding of our shared humanity. Buddha bless you all!
posted by Abiezer at 7:27 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Gimme a break with the "bunnyfiring" bullshit. jonmc isn't getting it that hard in the thread, and he's handling it just fine.
posted by OmieWise at 7:28 AM on February 12, 2007


Wait, you mean there was an FPP meant to dismissively point at all those racist Southerners and let us show how superior and free of bigotry we are? (Incidentally, those racist bigot Southerners are probably evangelicals, too. And neocons). And then you mean to tell me that jonmc pointed out how hackneyed it all was? And then the same argument with jonmc ensued?

Yes? Well, what's the problem? We hadn't had this week's offering of that show yet. If some people don't have their weekly fix of prejudiced sneering, there is no telling what will happen!
posted by dios at 7:29 AM on February 12, 2007 [4 favorites]


This issue affects my enjoyment of the site. I have seen it happen over and over and over and over and I finally reached the limits of my tolerance. Yes, I think of jonmc as a friend, but he is NOT the only one that this happens to, and I am tired of seeing it happen.

so this issue has nothing to do with the people involved as it does your enjoyment of the site?

at least you're being honest now.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 7:29 AM on February 12, 2007


i should clarify this; what i meant is that the argument has nothing to do with the quality of the site as it does with konolia's enjoyment of the site. and to the enjoyment of individual users on the site, i say, tough luck.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 7:32 AM on February 12, 2007


And nth-ing that this callout was unnecessary as nothing will be accomplished with it. Trust me: I know what getting piled-on is like, and jonmc wasn't getting much of one. That being said, we might perhaps use this thread to address the icky use of this made up term "bunnyfiring."
posted by dios at 7:32 AM on February 12, 2007


jonmc, I know sometimes that's your modus operandi, but it gets old for everyone involved.

FWIW, unless I'm being explicitly facetious or I flat-out say that I'm playing devil's advocate, you can rest assured that I believe what I say, at least at the moment I say it. I honestly did think the video was contrived and deliberately baiting. Lots of other people seem to disagree. That's fine. Some seem to have conflated my problems with the video to excusing homophobia and violence, which I felt needed answering. It's a conversation, that's all.
posted by jonmc at 7:33 AM on February 12, 2007


Matt, I'm a little confused here, seriously.

There are LOTS of contrarian posts here. I seriously do not think you mean to imply we should all have the same opinions here-when does disagreement turn to contrarianism? Does it depend on who the poster is, or what viewpoint the poster holds, or the number of times the poster posts?

I am asking an honest question, as one person's opinionsharing IS another person's contrarianism, I guess.
posted by konolia at 7:33 AM on February 12, 2007


Jon said this:
That was dumb and contrived. They went looking for trouble and found it.


i'm not even convinced that they found it ... in fact, i think the footage is fake, except for the woman that's yelling
posted by pyramid termite at 7:35 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]




i should clarify this; what i meant is that the argument has nothing to do with the quality of the site as it does with konolia's enjoyment of the site. and to the enjoyment of individual users on the site, i say, tough luck.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 10:32 AM EST o


If that were the case no one would care what jonmc or dios -or for that matter, I-post.

This is a matter of clarifying what our community norms truly are and I think it is worth addressing and making plain.
posted by konolia at 7:36 AM on February 12, 2007


Well I feel a bit awkward. How about you? Bastards. They told us there was a party here and there'd be free beer. But they gave us all the wrong address. Damn. Let's go get some breakfast. I know what I feel like.
posted by peacay at 7:37 AM on February 12, 2007


This is a matter of clarifying what our community norms truly are and I think it is worth addressing and making plain.

stating our community norms don't make them any clearer.

it seems to be that occasionally people pile on users, who in turn, defend themselves as best they can. for the most part, it's not a big deal for them, and they get over it. this has been the case in history and will continue to be the case in the future. when and why it happens will continue to be a mystery because, well, that's the nature of the randomness of this site.

anyone who has an issue with the way they are being treated in an individual thread has the right to post to this portion of the site to either achieve some justice or to be told that this is the internet and you need a thicker skin on the internet. at which point, the issue is resolved.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 7:40 AM on February 12, 2007


You do realize that there are people here who come for the petty controversy, don't you? We wouldn't want to deprive them of the precious bodily fluids that ooze from such debates, would we? Cortex, Jonmc, loquacious, Dios, Dame... there's a reason why they press the refresh button as often as they do. Who are we to try and stop their perverse, bizarro-love fests??
posted by Dave Faris at 7:41 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


anyone who has an issue with the way they are being treated in an individual thread has the right to post to this portion of the site to either achieve some justice or to be told that this is the internet and you need a thicker skin on the internet. at which point, the issue is resolved

Too many times I have seen it resolved by the loss of a member at that point. People get wrought up, and then Matt either sticks someone in the penalty box or someone decides that the crap isn't worth the five bucks and walks away. Either way we lose a valuable member of the community.
posted by konolia at 7:43 AM on February 12, 2007


Cortex, Jonmc, loquacious, Dios, Dame...

what a weird five to pick.
posted by jonmc at 7:44 AM on February 12, 2007


Thanks for the callout konolia.

The point isn't that jonmc or other people have opinions and are free to share them. The point is that jonmc shows up and posts a thousand comments in a thread, consistently making it all about him.

Just because someone posts a comment that disagrees doesn't mean you need to come back and defend every little word you said. Just let it go. It becomes an entirely different site when jonmc gets involved in a thread, and it's disappointing.
posted by knave at 7:45 AM on February 12, 2007 [3 favorites]


This is like that time that I realized the reason that showering often* removes the gunk from under my fingernails is that my hair is brushing underneath them when I wash it and cleaning that area out. I could be squicked by that, but I guess biologically it's a closed system.

*I don't always wash my hair because I don't always have hair. I shave my head periodically.
posted by Eideteker at 7:45 AM on February 12, 2007


Find another user who's comments page looks like this. Just sayin'.
posted by knave at 7:46 AM on February 12, 2007


Ouch. Whose.
posted by knave at 7:46 AM on February 12, 2007


Only because he is provoked, knave. I sit back and watch it...it's like poking a bear with a stick and then being surprised that it's annoyed.

Granted he hasn't learned to ignore the pokes, but still.
posted by konolia at 7:46 AM on February 12, 2007


Dave Faris: "I decided, among other reasons, to switch to my real name because I felt like I sometimes might be reflecting badly on the community site I run by some of the blunt things I tend to say. I also figure this way, I'm less apt to be a complete butthead since I'm not hiding behind an alias -- the jury is still out on this one."

--- weeks later ---

Dave Faris: precious bodily fluids that ooze from such debates ... Cortex, Jonmc, loquacious, Dios, Dame ... their perverse, bizarro-love fests??
posted by matthewr at 7:47 AM on February 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


MetaFilter: Perverse Bizarro-Love Fests
posted by Mister_A at 7:48 AM on February 12, 2007


*Pretends his Blackberry can load youtube pages, posts the mother of all youtube music video dumps, continues dumping in the lavatory*
posted by Burhanistan at 7:49 AM on February 12, 2007


I think we need an meta-MeTa thread about the use of "bunnyfire" as a verb. That is the real issue here.
posted by TedW at 7:53 AM on February 12, 2007


I see people disagreeing with jonmc's stance, I don't see a great deal of pitchfork wielding and torch waving. jonmc made a controversial statement, people are reacting to it.
posted by substrate at 7:55 AM on February 12, 2007


Dave Faris, you wound me. Also, you forgot that Crunchland guy. Sloppy.
posted by cortex at 7:56 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


FWIW, unless I'm being explicitly facetious or I flat-out say that I'm playing devil's advocate, you can rest assured that I believe what I say,

Oh, I'm not doubting your intentions. I'm just saying in general, the behavior of dropping into every thread about music, women, or redneck culture and leaving 10-15 comments is what leads to people getting the impression that you do this often and it attracts scorn from others.

The point isn't that jonmc or other people have opinions and are free to share them. The point is that jonmc shows up and posts a thousand comments in a thread, consistently making it all about him.

This is the core of the problem. It's a community, shared by many people and if one member is hogging the mic or turning conversations towards themselves, then that tends to go badly with other members.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:59 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


konolia: I feel like there's some emotional spillover here from the jonmc's-MeCha-timeout thing. Not so say your point is without merit—there should be less lazy snipery and knee-jerk dismissal around here—I can't help but think that bit of cross-site drama primed your reaction here and made it a bit more personal than it ought to be ("bunnyfiring"? Really?).

Mefi has always been and will hopefully always be a contentious, argumentative place. Less shit in said argumentation is a good thing, no question, but there will always be a little bit of spillover and a fair amount of snark. And as much as I advocate for niceness and benefit-of-the-doubt when people start getting in each others' faces, a whitewashed MeFi is not one I'd like to see.
posted by cortex at 8:00 AM on February 12, 2007


I think "bunnyfire" is my new favourite word. It combines both bunnies, which I think are cute, and fire, the control of which is one of the earliest and most influential human developments. Yes, both "bunnyfire" and "necroctoporn" need to work themselves into my daily vocabulary.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 8:01 AM on February 12, 2007


You do realize that there are people here who come for the petty controversy, don't you? We wouldn't want to deprive them of the precious bodily fluids that ooze from such debates, would we? Cortex, Jonmc, loquacious, Dios, Dame... there's a reason why they press the refresh button as often as they do. Who are we to try and stop their perverse, bizarro-love fests??
posted by Dave Faris at 9:41 AM CST on February 12


Eh? This is bullshit on stilts. I can't speak for anyone else, nor comment on their motivations. But my sense with at least cortex is that he participates because he likes participating. He doesn't want controversy; in fact, he seems to be largely aimed at diffusing it whenever it occurs. He seems to be a guy who loves to talk and share with others, so he tenders his opinion on these topics. He seems also to be adept and driven by a desire to deconstruct things and figure out where the problem occurs, so as to not have the problem recur. So I think your allegation against him is completely contrary to the cortex I am familiar with.

And as your accusations apply to me, I think my actions speak louder than your words: if I wanted arguments and controversy, don't you think I would encourage them? Yet every time someone calls me out, do you see me participate? No. When the same people bait me over and over and over in threads that I participate, do you see me respond? No. I can't stand the personality conflict and wish it would end, so don't paint me with that brush. Would that no one ever felt the need to call me out or get personal in an argument with me, this place would be the better for it. Yeah my opinions on various things tend to be against the consensus. But that is because the extremely vocal minority here tends to put forth positions that are dogmatic exaggerations. I call bullshit when I see it. Does that mean that I "come here for petty controversy?" No. Your accusation seems to suggest that if the common voice was similar to the things I say, that I would intentionally alter my positions for the sake of controversy, and that is bullshit.

I, of course, recognize the sheer irony of arguing this point with you. Maybe it was bait thrown out there to make a point. I don't know. But konolia is right about one thing in this thread: we shouldn't use people as punching bags like you just did as it becomes self-reinforcing. When statements like what you just said are left out there and repeated enough, they end up being believed as true by sheer force of collective repetition of allegations. Now I have suffered through that to the point where the average allegation about me bears no resemblance to anything I say or do here, so its rather pointless for me to try to reclaim "dios" from the strawman that the handle has become. But don't start on cortex. He doesn't deserve that treatment too.
posted by dios at 8:02 AM on February 12, 2007 [5 favorites]


I haven't been to MeCha in months... can someone pt out the jonmc timeout thread? What happened--he appears to have posted on the front page recently. Weird.
posted by dobbs at 8:03 AM on February 12, 2007


This is the core of the problem. It's a community, shared by many people and if one member is hogging the mic or turning conversations towards themselves, then that tends to go badly with other members.

Okay, NOW we are getting somewhere.

So, if we can all agree that we don't all have to have the same opinions, and we can all agree that postal diarrhea can be annoying at times, this thread has Done Its Job.

And I never have to say "bunnyfiring" ever again.
posted by konolia at 8:04 AM on February 12, 2007


I think "bunnyfire" is my new favourite word.

NAY NAY OH DEAR GOD A THOUSAND TIMES NAY
posted by matthewr at 8:05 AM on February 12, 2007


I went over to the linked thread expecting to see jonmc up on the battlements swinging his sword against a mob of torch-wielding villagers and instead found... a conversation.

As Crocodile Dundee would say: "That's not a pile-on. This is a pile-on."
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 8:06 AM on February 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


Cortex is the self-appointed, bombastic king of Metatalk. There are few threads here where he hasn't weighed in with his judgemental rulings. That's why he's included on that short list. I could expand it, if you insist, and my name might be found on a much longer list, but those were just the names that leapt to mind -- the people who like the controversy for the sake of controversy.
posted by Dave Faris at 8:06 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's a community, shared by many people and if one member is hogging the mic or turning conversations towards themselves, then that tends to go badly with other members.

Matt, I talk a lot, yeah. Guilty as charged. But, believe it or not, it' susually because I'm trying to say something and then it'll get misconstrued and I'll have to go explain. It dosen't help that an there's a contingent of people who simply like getting a rise out of me and others. I should take a page out of my man cortex's book and be more layback about it, especially since the idea of being somebody's dancing clown is extremely irksome to me.

And FWIW, I don't think what happened at meCha has anything to do with this. MeCha is a friendly gathering place that I (wrongly) got argumentative in. MeFi on the other hand, has always welcomed a certain amount of disagreement.
posted by jonmc at 8:07 AM on February 12, 2007


FWIW, I retract my minor snark at jonmc in the original discussion. I guess I was trying to say what matt said far more succinctly but totally accept what jon is saying in here. Sorry dude.
posted by NeonSurge at 8:08 AM on February 12, 2007


But konolia is right about one thing in this thread: we shouldn't use people as punching bags like you just did as it becomes self-reinforcing. When statements like what you just said are left out there and repeated enough, they end up being believed as true by sheer force of collective repetition of allegations. Now I have suffered through that to the point where the average allegation about me bears no resemblance to anything I say or do here, so its rather pointless for me to try to reclaim "dios" from the strawman that the handle has become

THIS is the point I was originally trying to make, and Dios makes it perfectly. Thank you.

Oh, and let's leave the other site out of this, 'k? We try not to drag "here" over "there," either.
posted by konolia at 8:08 AM on February 12, 2007


I think we need an meta-MeTa thread about the use of "bunnyfire" as a verb. That is the real issue here.

Yes, and it's doubly weird having having that verb coined by "konolia." Would that constitute speaking in the fourth person?
posted by pardonyou? at 8:09 AM on February 12, 2007


(and jonmc, that was not directed at you.)
posted by konolia at 8:10 AM on February 12, 2007


Ouch. I think it's a bit unfair to reference someone's behaviour at a different website to use as ammunition in this argument. It's not really on. Metafilter is a more in-your-face place, and you can't be saying "xxx got a time-out over there and this is proof that they're misbehaving here." Different places have different social rules. If you're going to judge someone, judge them solely on what they've done at Metafilter.

And personally, yep - I was being deliberately provocative in that thread, but it was to a viewpoint, not to an individual.
posted by seanyboy at 8:12 AM on February 12, 2007


there's a contingent of people who simply like getting a rise out of me and others

I get the impression that you think that about a lot of people (myself included) and, in my case at least, it's absolutely not true. Perhaps you're just projecting? Or, if you don't think this about me, perhaps I'm just projecting. Regardless, I think it's a weird conclusion to have come to unless people have specifically said they behave that way to get a rise out of you.
posted by dobbs at 8:13 AM on February 12, 2007


jonmc is doing fine, it seems to me. I dont think what happeend in that thread is different from people saying "gee XXX user, you're doing that thing you do again and that thing gets old sometimes" We have users who are a bit more memorable/noticeable than others and this tend to draw attention to them. My feeling on the community norms aspect of this whole thing is that

1. if a thread turns into a "fuck you no fuck you" pile-on we'll often stop it if we can.
2. the penalty box is as much a part of how we do things here as MetaTalk is. This may be me going out on a limb, but we rarely "lose a valuable member of the community" with it, people either decide to come back because they like it here, or they head off into the sunset because they didn't. If people are being valuable members of the community, they don't wind up in the penalty box.
3. this incident and the bunnyfire incident bear very little resemblance to each other in fact, I see almost no incident here at all.
4. we've emailed with jonmc from time to time when things are getting a little out of wack and this has worked fine in the past, I think for him and for us.
5. jonmc is way out on one side of the bell curve as far as "number of times user feels that it's okay to inject their own opinion on the topic into a thread" and his "okay I've made my point now I'll leave it alone" button may be a little broken, but generally he's within acceptable limits here on MeFi and so we move forward and things are fine.

I'm not sure what else needs discussing but I'm open to suggestions.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:14 AM on February 12, 2007


There are LOTS of contrarian posts here. I seriously do not think you mean to imply we should all have the same opinions here-when does disagreement turn to contrarianism?

konolia: I think you're over reacting. The response to someone saying X is diffrent then the response to someone saying X for the 1000th time. :P
posted by delmoi at 8:17 AM on February 12, 2007


All I know is if I start a band, it's gonna be called The Bunnyfire Incident.
posted by knave at 8:17 AM on February 12, 2007


The people who like the controversy for the sake of controversy.
posted by Dave Faris at 10:06 AM CST on February 12


See, this is how this game works. The allegation is repeated despite the denial. After it is repeated enough, it seeps into the conscience....

Regardless, I think it's a weird conclusion to have come to unless people have specifically said they behave that way to get a rise out of you.
posted by dobbs at 10:13 AM CST on February 12


Even weirder when you have an express denial and actions indicating that the conclusion is not correct.

Maybe projecting is a useful concept here.
posted by dios at 8:18 AM on February 12, 2007


So jonmc is like some sort of anti-troll? He means well, but the net result is the same as trolling? Hmm...
posted by Eideteker at 8:19 AM on February 12, 2007


I'm not sure what else needs discussing but I'm open to suggestions.
posted by jessamyn at 10:14 AM CST on February 12


What about your new hair-do?
posted by dios at 8:20 AM on February 12, 2007


"Excellent! Another opportunity to engage in robust but civil and generous-spirited debate about community norms, in which all concerned will rise above passing petty differences, question themselves sincerely and ultimately come a deeper understanding of our shared humanity. Buddha bless you all!"

It'd be nice if this were taken seriously and wasn't merely sarcasm. We could manage to do that, you know.

I sort of sided with jonmc's position in that thread, but also found his very typical contrarian-two-dozen-comments-thread dominating thing tiresome. But then lots and lots of things lots of people do, including me, are tiresome. It's occured to me lately, spurred on by another mefite's urging, that even in spite of these sorts of things, maybe we all could act a little more civil and forgiving. Can't we?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:21 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Would that no one ever felt the need to call me out or get personal in an argument with me, this place would be the better for it.

God may not be questioned under any circumstances. The faster you heathens get that, the shorter your torment shall be.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 8:22 AM on February 12, 2007


I get the impression that you think that about a lot of people (myself included) and, in my case at least, it's absolutely not true.

You? No. I generally like a lot of what you say, even if I disagree with it. (like I mentioned, I even personally invited you to my music blog since I figured we'd disgaree interestingly). I may occasionally get irked with you, but you could say that about anyone.

It's more this 'lookit the dummy loser acting smart! let's see if we can get him riled up' tone that I occasionaly hear.

(FWIW, in the initial thread, several people, Ynoxas most of all, have articulated what I was trying to say better than I could myself. Maybe I'm not actually all that bright after all).
posted by jonmc at 8:23 AM on February 12, 2007


I was also very surprised at your inclusion of cortex on your shortlist, Dave. I don't think he thrives on controversy. He comments about all kinds of things, and generally looks for consensus rather than discord. He does love him some Metafilter, and is very visible so maybe that's why he comes to mind. Personally, I'd like to nominate him for Mefi Ombudsman.

Your list itself is just a short list of people who have acheived some Mefi notoriety. If their name is easily recognized, there will be plenty of people on both sides who have formed an opinion of them. A couple of them I like, a couple of them I don't. Infamy has its price. And of course, the truth of the matter lies somewhere between the extremes.
posted by Roger Dodger at 8:24 AM on February 12, 2007


Cortex is the self-appointed, king of Metatalk.

Heh. I agree with everything in that except "the", "self-appointed", "bombastic", and "king". I spend a lot of time here, and I have opinions about the site that I'm not shy about expressing. If that makes me a king, we've got a hell of a lot of blue-bloods around here, and you are rocking at least a Duchy. Plus you seem to like to tell me this sort of thing on a regular basis, which is kind of weird, but, hey, do what works for you.

posted by cortex at 8:25 AM on February 12, 2007


and where the hell did "bombastic" go in the quote?
posted by cortex at 8:25 AM on February 12, 2007


Dios has it exactly right.
posted by konolia at 8:27 AM on February 12, 2007


Heh. I agree with everything in that except "the", "self-appointed", "bombastic", and "king".

You would disagree with the "the". So contrarian. Stop cortexing!
posted by iconomy at 8:28 AM on February 12, 2007


What about your new hair-do?

All of the suddent it got all poofy. I sort of feel like I look like my mom now.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:29 AM on February 12, 2007


This is a counterfeit life to pursue.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:30 AM on February 12, 2007


EB - it was only the mildest sarcasm, partly in an attempt to set things off on a light-hearted footing. That is actually how I would like to see these discussions unfold.
posted by Abiezer at 8:31 AM on February 12, 2007


Don't you taz me, iconomy.

All of the suddent it got all poofy. I sort of feel like I look like my mom now.

I find hair management mystifying.
posted by cortex at 8:31 AM on February 12, 2007


Too many times I have seen it resolved by the loss of a member at that point.

Bunny dear, I don't think jonmc is going anywhere.

Also, someone was timed-out from Metachat? That's not very nice!
posted by Jimbob at 8:32 AM on February 12, 2007


jonmc

Please keep commenting without inhibition.

I think you are as wrong and foolish and blowhardy as you've ever been today about the insufferable but occasionally very funny Top Gear guy and I genuinely wanted to thump you (metaphorically - I'm a wet liberal with a temper).

But I always like your energy and I really, really bristle when people do that "take a rest from the keyboard, fella" thing.
posted by Jody Tresidder at 8:40 AM on February 12, 2007


thanks, jody. also, FWIW, some of the people who have argued with me the most (klangklangston, matteo, faze, OmieWise) are the ones I actually admire the most and am most inclined to listen to. I'm not sure what that means, but...
posted by jonmc at 8:45 AM on February 12, 2007


Arguing is like chess; you have to play people who are capable of beating you in order to get better. I like it when someone I know to be intelligent and thoughtful rebuts something I state. I also like it when someone I didn't know to be skilled in argumentation emerges to contradict, clarify, or elaborate on something I've said. I do not like it when someone does a hit-and-run or deliberately misrepresents something I say; then I feel the urge to deconstruct. Which I also like, so it's all good.
posted by Mister_A at 8:57 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's more this 'lookit the dummy loser acting smart! let's see if we can get him riled up' tone that I occasionaly hear.

If you're sensing that, you know that responding to it is taking the bait and being their whipping boy?

I don't think it takes place, but if you see someone deliberately trying to troll you, be the bigger man and move on to the next thread.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:06 AM on February 12, 2007


you are, of course, right, matt (and thaks for deleting fandango's comment). And I know konolia meant well, but I kind of find this whole thread embarassing.
posted by jonmc at 9:10 AM on February 12, 2007


Sorry, old bean.

But it had to be done for the good of the site. You'll live.
posted by konolia at 9:11 AM on February 12, 2007


Sometimes Mom and Dad correct your behavior, sometimes it's your siblings. The latter may appear more brutal, but that's only because it's crude in its methods; it's usually got a lot less sting.

Please don't bunnyfire me.
posted by Nahum Tate at 9:13 AM on February 12, 2007


Please keep commenting without inhibition.

I don't think that should be true of anyone here.
posted by mediareport at 9:17 AM on February 12, 2007


I am pretty sure that if I met jonmc in real life, I'd think him a swell guy, and we'd get on like a house on fire. I agree with him from time to time, and love his appreciation for the zaftig chicks.

That said, I can't tell you the number of times I've clicked on a thread, thinking "Wow, this link is great! I can't wait to find out what people think of it!" only to find that the whole thread has been ruined by jonmc. By ruined, I mean completely dominated. As soon as I see more than two comments by him, I know the conversation is no longer about the original topic, but is now all about him.

This has caused me to utter such groans of hair-pulling frustration as, "AARRRGH!", "Ughh!", and "For fuck's sake!". And then I close the window with great sadness and regret.

I know there's no point, really, in complaining about this: internet whining is unattractive to start with, and it's clear this problem (and I don't mean jonmc, I just mean this behaviour) isn't ever going to go away. But I had to, just once, say something. I shall never speak of it again. Thank you. Now I'm going to go eat some soup.
posted by hot soup girl at 9:17 AM on February 12, 2007 [6 favorites]


konolia writes "it had to be done for the good of the site."

You take too much on yourself.
posted by OmieWise at 9:20 AM on February 12, 2007


Find another user who's comments page looks like this.

That's easy. You can't shoot a gun around here without hitting somebody who fits that description.

Here. Here. Here. Here. Here.
posted by Dave Faris at 9:21 AM on February 12, 2007


You take too much on yourself.

You take ME much too seriously. (I forgot to add the slightly selfmocking tone tag, in other words.)

You'll live. ;-)
posted by konolia at 9:23 AM on February 12, 2007


Dave Faris: those people are poor examples. yes, they are all Chatty Kathy's but it's usually interesting chat. Cortex, for instance, is one of the funniest people I've encountered in a long time and languagehat has mastered an all-too rare skill: being incredibly smart while never making people feel stupid. Are these things to be discouraged? I'd say we need more of that.
posted by jonmc at 9:26 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Whatever happened to Crunchland anyway?

[wink]
posted by Mister_A at 9:27 AM on February 12, 2007


But it had to be done for the good of the site. You'll live.

god, if there's anything i like less than a preacher, it's a preacher who spends as much time patting themselves on the back for their acts that were done "for the good of the masses".

i say preacher because you speak like this:

Oh, and let's leave the other site out of this, 'k? We try not to drag "here" over "there," either.

let's? we're not elementary school kids here. stop talking down to us.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 9:27 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


dflemingdotorg, that is a community norm between that site and this. Perhaps you were not aware of that.
posted by konolia at 9:29 AM on February 12, 2007


it's not your point i oppose, it's how you present it.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 9:30 AM on February 12, 2007


If this were a sports team, and mathowie could sell or trade posters to other forum owners, he'd have to spend so much of his time fending off offers for cortex he'd wonder if the whole thing was worth it in the first place.
posted by jamjam at 9:30 AM on February 12, 2007


Differences of opinion and the ensuing conversations is what forms democracies and makes the internet an especially great place. I think the world would be a lot better if we had more say-it-like-it-is-no-matter-what-people-think guys like jonmc and less whining spoiled oversensitive yuppies who cant deal with being called on it
posted by petsounds at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


All of the suddent it got all poofy.

Too much chlorine?

I have nothing to add to the larger conversation.
posted by mmahaffie at 9:31 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


The second after I posted that I regretted doing so. I apologize.

I am, however, tired of tuning in only to see The Jonmc Show episodes Everybody's Racist Except Me, That Band Sucks!, or I'm Punk Rock, You're Not.
posted by fandango_matt at 9:33 AM on February 12, 2007 [5 favorites]


mmahaffie writes "I have nothing to add to the larger conversation."

Which is, in its way, the most important type of contribution.
posted by OmieWise at 9:33 AM on February 12, 2007


dflemingdotorg: "god, if there's anything i like less than a preacher, it's a preacher who spends as much time patting themselves on the back for their acts that were done "for the good of the masses"."

God, if there's anything I like less than an angry anti-xian bigot, it's an angry anti-xian bigot who has no idea when an xian is telling a joke.
posted by koeselitz at 9:34 AM on February 12, 2007


I wasn't suggesting that people should be discouraged from commenting in threads over and over. I was pointing out that you weren't the only person with a penchant for doing it.
posted by Dave Faris at 9:34 AM on February 12, 2007


I kind of find this whole thread embarassing

He notes in his eighth comment. But don't be embarrassed, enjoy it -- this one really is all about you!
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 9:34 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


God, if there's anything I like less than an angry anti-xian bigot, it's an angry anti-xian bigot who has no idea when an xian is telling a joke.

who said anything about being anti-xian?

anyone who spouts moral truth or right conduct, regardless of their doctrine, is a preacher.
posted by dflemingdotorg at 9:38 AM on February 12, 2007


It doesnt matter whether or not jonmc was right in the thread (he was, by the way). So he doesn't agree with you; deal with it. For the love of god don't go whining about how "unfair it is" and making personal attacks and calling him a "troll". It's embarassing, and just makes it look like you have nothing to back up your argument.
posted by petsounds at 9:38 AM on February 12, 2007


fandango: apology accepted. and FWIW, I used to find you funny as hell sometimes, but if that's what you think I'm trying to communicate, then something went wrong, either I'm not articulate enough or you're hearing what you want to hear, or more likely a combination of the two.
posted by jonmc at 9:38 AM on February 12, 2007


Also, whoever the joker is that signed me up for the Kotex Connection newsletter, I'm going to find you, and kill you.
posted by fandango_matt at 9:38 AM on February 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


Whatever happened to Crunchland anyway?

We totally crunchlanded him.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:41 AM on February 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


FATTIE!
posted by cortex at 9:47 AM on February 12, 2007


The idea of threads being "dominated" by someone strikes me as silly. I mean, to the extent that folks won't comment because there's a big argument going on? If you have something to say about a post, well, say it. The only one who can break through this putative domination is you.

If what you have to say is more compelling than the argument in progress, I'm sure someone will respond, or at least favorite, your comment. But blaming other posters for your lack of confidence (or whatever it is; I don't mean that as an insult) isn't fair to them, or to you.

You don't have to fight, and you don't have to not fight. There are many more options than you seem to see.
posted by breezeway at 9:50 AM on February 12, 2007


Sweet gibbering everlasting dead baby Jesus in a bottle of formaldehyde, I'm going to kill you, and then kill you again, cortex.

The Kotex Connection, indeed. You fucker.
posted by fandango_matt at 9:54 AM on February 12, 2007 [2 favorites]


Ye gods, I really thought you were kidding.
posted by cortex at 9:58 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Kotex is the self-absorbed, bombastic pad of MetaTalk.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:59 AM on February 12, 2007


The idea of threads being "dominated" by someone strikes me as silly.

Not me. The first handful of comments in any thread set the tone. If the first few people are respectful and on-topic, so goes the rest of the thread (generally). A thread that starts out with shit for comments usually only goes downhill from there.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:00 AM on February 12, 2007 [3 favorites]


I only date switch threads.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:02 AM on February 12, 2007


languagehat has mastered an all-too rare skill: being incredibly smart while never making people feel stupid

He made me feel stupid once. And I've never been able to forget that and move on.

Also, someone was timed-out from Metachat? That's not very nice!

I got permabanned from there, how's that for not nice? And to top it all off, this little kid had his arm blown off by a British clusterbomb.

Sometimes it seems there is no justice in this world.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:08 AM on February 12, 2007


Sure, I've done some bad things in the past.

But there's no way I'm reading this thread to make up for those things.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:08 AM on February 12, 2007


The first handful of comments in any thread set the tone. If the first few people are respectful and on-topic, so goes the rest of the thread (generally).

And it's not black-or-white, either; threads often bifurcate, and multiple conversations with differing tones will sprout and persist. Threads have been known to self-correct at times, too, which is pretty cool when it happens; but I think those are less sexy, so to speak, than turns for the worse, and so folks don't note it as much.

"Well, this thread really went to shit being reasonable and topical" rarely (but not never) merits a callout to the grey.
posted by cortex at 10:11 AM on February 12, 2007


Yes, cortex, I think you're right.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:25 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Guh? I know the dude already addressed it and doesn't need anyone jumping in on his behalf, but...

Cortex is the self-appointed, bombastic king of Metatalk. often hilarious and his observations are usually dead on the money - if MeFi ever needed another admin, he'd get my vote in a second*.

If he didn't seem like such a genuinely nice guy, I'd probably hate his stinking guts.

*Which may explain why Crunch Farts seems to have such a hard-on for him, but that's just idle speculation.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:26 AM on February 12, 2007


I still think anyone who has something to say is welcome to say it in any thread here. Threads get derailed, but one rarely gets hollered at for responding to the original post. And if that happens, it means whoever's hollering at you is wrong, not you. So it shouldn't bother you is there's a bullshit two-or-three-person convo going on in a thread, or if you have to wade through crap before you can pile a diamond on the cairn; if it does bother you, that strikes me as something you can and should address within yourself.
posted by breezeway at 10:39 AM on February 12, 2007


bun • ny • fire verb
fired ; fir•ing to go off one's medication and swap out a mental illness for a fundamentalist religion

I don't see this happening to jonmc in that thread.
posted by Autumn Dandy at 10:42 AM on February 12, 2007 [4 favorites]


"I don't think that [i.e. commenting without inhibition]should be true of anyone here."
posted by mediareport

Fair point, media.

If I hadn't read a fair number of the 12,385 jonmc comments over the years I would have held my tongue.

So it was a kind of considered, aggregate endorsement?

Also I don't have an enormous amount in common with him, and didn't feel I was being brown nosey since he rattles me quite a lot (I'm a fair bit older for a start, an expat in the US, a married female, first kid already in college, atrophied musical tastes, different politics, different area of work, whatever).

Obviously, most of that background was in my own head!

I suppose I should've typed: "Please keep commenting without inhibition as long as it's roughly in line with your previous 12,385 plus comments."
posted by Jody Tresidder at 10:45 AM on February 12, 2007


dflemingdotorg: "anyone who spouts moral truth or right conduct, regardless of their doctrine, is a preacher."

Yeah. And you're doing it, buddy.
posted by koeselitz at 10:46 AM on February 12, 2007


Autumn Dandy, there's not-going-there, and then there's that. Not really necessary; those who get it, get it, and those who don't don't need to get mucked up in tired history.
posted by cortex at 10:49 AM on February 12, 2007


lolamericanz
posted by Hands of Manos at 10:51 AM on February 12, 2007


So it shouldn't bother you if there's a bullshit two-or-three-person convo going on in a thread, or if you have to wade through crap before you can pile a diamond on the cairn; if it does bother you, that strikes me as something you can and should address within yourself.

what's the name for this? this - "if you have a problem with X, it's clearly *your* problem, and you should take a look at that, son."

I hate being told what should or shouldn't bother me. Bullshit conversations in threads suck, and there, I said it.
posted by pinky at 10:57 AM on February 12, 2007


Huh.

What's bizarre to me is that this is the second time in twenty-four hours that an obviously experienced internet user has posted a request that MetaTalk somehow put an end to an integral part of on-line message boards.

The belief in the god-like powers of MeTa must be on the rise.
posted by tkolar at 11:15 AM on February 12, 2007


wow. cortex guilted me in to removing a favorite.

*hangs head*

*notices cornbread and goes back to lunch*
posted by terrapin at 11:17 AM on February 12, 2007


konolia, relax, get away from metafilter for a couple days or a week or something. it's not that important.
posted by Miles Long at 11:25 AM on February 12, 2007


But it had to be done for the good of the site.

Sometimes it's really hard to like you, konolia.

Seconding all the good things said about cortex. I'd vote for him for King in a heartbeat, if I weren't an anarchist.
posted by languagehat at 11:34 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


King cortex!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:35 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm not saying bullshit conversations aren't a problem. What I mean is that, when someone has something valuable to say, they should say it, no matter what the tenor or the topic of the derail may be. But don't withhold your important opinions about Gesualdo in a thread about Gesualdo because a couple dunderheads have been bitching at one another about Sinai politics and the filming of "In The Name of the Rose." That's all.

I meant to encourage people to post on-topic, to not be intimidated by derails, and I could certainly have been clearer about that.

I'm sorry to have aided your misunderstanding.
posted by breezeway at 11:38 AM on February 12, 2007


Listen, pink women lyin' in threads distributin' favorites is no basis for a system of government.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:39 AM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


What I mean is that, when someone has something valuable to say, they should say it, no matter what the tenor or the topic of the derail may be.

Amen. Duck past the fistfight and keep on with the interesting stuff.
posted by cortex at 11:50 AM on February 12, 2007


I think 'bunnyfiring' has more to do with the fired than the firer.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:54 AM on February 12, 2007


Fist past the duckfight? What? The? Eff? cortex?
posted by cgc373 at 11:56 AM on February 12, 2007


Dick pussed, the fuck fright?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:58 AM on February 12, 2007


Frist sussed the brain-light.
posted by cortex at 12:02 PM on February 12, 2007


Ugh. all the smarmy self-congratulatory backslapping in jokes that inevitably show up at the end of metafilter threads always makes me want to hurl
posted by petsounds at 12:11 PM on February 12, 2007


Your mising u hyfen.

CAN I GET A WITNESS?!!!
posted by breezeway at 12:13 PM on February 12, 2007


konolia, relax, get away from metafilter for a couple days or a week or something. it's not that important.

I think some people are taking this a Helluva lot more serious than she is.
posted by jmd82 at 12:17 PM on February 12, 2007


Your mising u hyfen

I prefer to think of it as virginity-challenged.
posted by iconomy at 12:18 PM on February 12, 2007


Glad to be of service, petsounds.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:19 PM on February 12, 2007


metafilter:echo chamber for retards
posted by petsounds at 12:24 PM on February 12, 2007


"Too many times I have seen it resolved by the loss of a member at that point. "

Back to circumcision again?

"some of the people who have argued with me the most (klangklangston, matteo, faze, OmieWise) are the ones I actually admire the most and am most inclined to listen to."

I'll eat your children.

"being incredibly smart while never making people feel stupid."

Languagehat makes me feel stupid all the time. Also gay.

"I am, however, tired of tuning in only to see The Jonmc Show episodes Everybody's Racist Except Me, That Band Sucks!, or I'm Punk Rock, You're Not."

Man, you'd think that with the number of times he's repeated it, you'd get that the shows are Everybody's Racist (So let's not think too much about this instance of racism), I Like Dumb Rock (And if you don't, that's cool, but I don't get what's so special about these guys), and I Like The Boobies (And there's nothing wrong with proclaiming that at every opportunity).

So you're actually making me see Jon's argument for having to restate himself six million times. (The problem I frequently have is that he'll say something not all that controversial, people will assume that it's a broader argument and not just one data point, and attempt to argue him out of something.)


But the problem I'm having is why the new Ghostrider movie isn't prominantly featuring the music of Suicide. I mean, "Ghostrider, motorcycle hero" is one of the coolest moments in all of music.
posted by klangklangston at 12:26 PM on February 12, 2007 [3 favorites]


metafilter:echo chamber, chamber, chamber, chamber...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:27 PM on February 12, 2007


metafilter: bad deletion, man.
posted by cortex at 12:28 PM on February 12, 2007


I'm sorry to have aided your misunderstanding

okay.

It seems to be fairly regular for people to say, when they disagree with you, that "you ought to take a look at that," which always strikes me as snarky, glib and not at all helpful.
posted by pinky at 12:34 PM on February 12, 2007


I have to object here.

In-jokes are lame, off-putting and cause depressing insularity.

That being said, if you are going to do one, do it correctly. You can't make a post with a tagline (Metafilter:....) unless the tagline has already appeared in the thread. You can't just make it up!
posted by dios at 12:37 PM on February 12, 2007


Metafilter: You can't just make it up!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:38 PM on February 12, 2007


Metafilter: depressing insularity!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:39 PM on February 12, 2007


Metafilter: You can't just make it up!

Also, it can't be too painfully obvious, like that one was.
posted by matthewr at 12:40 PM on February 12, 2007


And the other thing is that you will never ever beat IRFH to a joke.
posted by matthewr at 12:40 PM on February 12, 2007


Metafilter: too painfully obvious!

Metafilter: Shut the fuck up, IRFH!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:41 PM on February 12, 2007


posted by petsounds Ugh. all the smarmy self-congratulatory backslapping in jokes that inevitably show up at the end of metafilter threads always makes me want to hurl

Personally, I find the congratulatory self-slapping at the end of metafilter threads much more nauseating.
posted by fandango_matt at 12:43 PM on February 12, 2007


And the other thing is that you will never ever beat IRFH to a joke.

Especially if it is a lame, off-putting, depressingly insular, painfully obvious joke.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:44 PM on February 12, 2007


I know, pinky, and while what I had to say has elements of that (as in, don't worry about them, just do your thing, it's up to you whether to post) I really meant it as more encouragement than chiding. I get the point you're making, but I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Criticizing others for a lack of value without putting forth your own value is a half-measure; even putting it that way sounds like I'm being a heavy. It's hard to get into a grey area without making someone mad. Anyway, I meant well.
posted by breezeway at 12:45 PM on February 12, 2007


I think some people are taking this a Helluva lot more serious than she is.

Exactly.

I quit letting this place get my bowels in an uproar years ago.
posted by konolia at 1:02 PM on February 12, 2007


Languagehat makes me feel stupid all the time.

Well, it's more along the lines of..he won't judge you for not having every detail of some esoteric era or movement commited to memory. (although, sometimes it's kind of nice to be thought of as the house idiot. all the better to sneak up on someone and blow them out of their socks when I do say something perceptive).
posted by jonmc at 1:05 PM on February 12, 2007


Ugh. all the smarmy self-congratulatory backslapping in jokes that inevitably show up at the end of metafilter threads always makes me want to hurl.

Do not deny them the joys of the afterglow from a Metatalk clusterfuck. While still sticky and moist, and panting, this is what they consider pillow talk.
posted by Dave Faris at 1:10 PM on February 12, 2007 [3 favorites]


klang, maybe that will be in Ghostrider 2, the Revenge of Bad Deletion Man.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:13 PM on February 12, 2007


Look, have you got an extra cigarette or not?
posted by cortex at 1:14 PM on February 12, 2007


Please explain this "extra."
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:16 PM on February 12, 2007


It goes something like this, Kirth Gerson.
posted by cgc373 at 1:26 PM on February 12, 2007


Bowie? Hmm, WWJ(M)C do?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:34 PM on February 12, 2007


the people who like the controversy for the sake of controversy

Man, I know I'm late, but I'm going on vacation soon and had to actually work at work. Anyway, I know why you think that is accurate, and plenty of that is my fault, but I don't think it is totally nuanced.

I am not afraid of agression, the way lots of people seem to be and I don't have a problem with it being deployed. Sometimes, I think people are funny when they fight. I also like to exaggerate and use hyperbole in a way that doesn't always come across, especially to people who haven't met me. All those together can totally give you that impression, I see that. But you are wrong. I don't like controversy for its own sake. I just don't try to avoid it.
posted by dame at 1:36 PM on February 12, 2007


Here, cortex. It's menthol, though.
posted by dame at 1:38 PM on February 12, 2007


Did I actually get called out by crunchland?

As an inadequete neophyte - nearly an apostate! - but fanatically devoted acolyte of The Church of the Crunchland MethodTM I can only weep freely with the joy of a life made whole and complete.
posted by loquacious at 1:42 PM on February 12, 2007


Menthol? And you expect us to buy that "I don't seek controversy" line?
posted by cortex at 1:45 PM on February 12, 2007


Um. I have a confession to make. I think I might have typed your name instead of Languagehat's. Bad research on my part, I guess. But I don't want to take away the happiness you've received by my careless mistake, though, so please continue to consider yourself called out.
posted by Dave Faris at 1:45 PM on February 12, 2007


And if you tell me that he actually meant "languagehat" or "liquorice" so help me I'll hunt you down and gut you from crotch to gullet like a very delicious bass. LET ME HAVE MY JOY, FUCKERS.
posted by loquacious at 1:47 PM on February 12, 2007


GODDAMNIT FUCK! FUCKING FUCKETY FUCKING SHIT! I NEVER WIN!!!
posted by loquacious at 1:49 PM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Oof.

Awkward.

posted by cortex at 1:50 PM on February 12, 2007


ha ha! loser!
posted by languagehat at 1:51 PM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Actually, I don't much like that liquorice guy, either. It's all good.
posted by Dave Faris at 1:52 PM on February 12, 2007


liq is a chick, actually. You are breaking hearts up and down the block today.
posted by cortex at 1:55 PM on February 12, 2007


Well that plumb fuckers it. I'm going fishing.
posted by loquacious at 1:58 PM on February 12, 2007


I don't like controversy for its own sake. I just don't try to avoid it.

I think dame that this is likely the gist of why this callout exists in the first place. there's a metric assload of busybodies in society who just adore telling everyone else how to run their lives. these are the same sorts who at age seven went bawling off to the parents during a minor sibling squabble that didn't really necessitate any sort of parental intervention to solve.

enter the current epidemic of mediation, litigation, straphanging and pandering-to-the-masses 'BECAUSE ITS JUST NOT FAIR WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!...

i mean this whole callout doesn't seem to be about jonmc vs. the crapflood or konolia vs. the trolls really, it's more about the busybodies vs. the i-don't-give-a-fucks.

and considering that I myself don't really give a fuck either way and am merely butting in to wax selfsuperior about something I know very little about, I'll say a nice big pre-emptive FUCK YOU LFR YOU [insert Clever Internet Beatdown Of The Week] and crawl back under my bridge.
posted by lonefrontranger at 2:05 PM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


there's a metric assload of busybodies in society who just adore telling everyone else how to run their lives. these are the same sorts who at age seven went bawling off to the parents during a minor sibling squabble that didn't really necessitate any sort of parental intervention to solve.

enter the current epidemic of mediation, litigation, straphanging and pandering-to-the-masses 'BECAUSE ITS JUST NOT FAIR WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!...


Wow. That's quite a rant. Mediation AND straphanging, eh? You know who else likes to tell other people how to run their lives? Citizens with the right to vote. Democracies are for straphangers! Bunch of infantile people crying to their parents with their "opinions." Every man is an island!




Is that what you were looking for?
posted by dios at 2:13 PM on February 12, 2007


merely butting in to wax selfsuperior

LFR, the wax thread is next door.

posted by cortex at 2:17 PM on February 12, 2007


sure dios. great shambling purple zombie jesus i'm an arrogant prick today, and that's bad since i don't actually own a prick.

anyhows i suck at MeTa arguments and it's beer thirty.

*drops pitchfork, tips hat, shambles off*
posted by lonefrontranger at 2:27 PM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


You know who else likes to tell other people how to run their lives? Citizens with the right to vote.

Bears repeating.

Bears bears bears.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:57 PM on February 12, 2007 [4 favorites]


Maybe, but only if you repeat it in the dark with a flashlight held under your chin as a preamble to a history lesson on abuse of power.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:00 PM on February 12, 2007


And you have to repeat it in a sweet bedroom fort.
posted by cgc373 at 3:03 PM on February 12, 2007


y'know after a few beers this all seems funnier. and I look handsomer. and the Simpsons is on soon.
posted by jonmc at 3:03 PM on February 12, 2007


Hey there, poofy-hair!
posted by cortex at 3:08 PM on February 12, 2007


...Swingin down the street so fancy-free!
posted by scody at 3:15 PM on February 12, 2007


I keep coming back to this wondering if someone declared an opposite day. Did they? Am I in bizarro world again? It would go toward explaining the guy at the bus stop who kept saying, "Me like buses. Me think buses great."
posted by sleepy pete at 3:15 PM on February 12, 2007


And you have to repeat it in a sweet bedroom fort.

I read that as a sweet bedroom fart.

*cleans glasses*
posted by konolia at 3:26 PM on February 12, 2007


"I am, however, tired of tuning in only to see The Jonmc Show episodes Everybody's Racist Except Me, That Band Sucks!, or I'm Punk Rock, You're Not."

Man, you'd think that with the number of times he's repeated it, you'd get that the shows are Everybody's Racist (So let's not think too much about this instance of racism), I Like Dumb Rock (And if you don't, that's cool, but I don't get what's so special about these guys), and I Like The Boobies (And there's nothing wrong with proclaiming that at every opportunity).


I enjoy the jonmc oeuvre, but this a spot-on piece of comedic truth rolling down klangklangston drive, and I, for one, think it deserves more eyeballs.

Also, this thread is outstanding reading. This one and the Brian B. thread. Great MetaTalk threads today, people. Keep it up.

/pep talk
posted by Kwine at 3:35 PM on February 12, 2007


if people are not allowed to be contrarian, there's little point in having a discussion.

That's like saying it's ok to harp on the same opinion/issue over and over again, as long as you're surrounded by people who agree with you. Jon is constantly contrarian because people are constantly repeating points of view that are contrary to his viewpoint. He's no more to blame than they are.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:38 PM on February 12, 2007


kwine: FWIW, I've had several people say that they like my writing more when I'm talking about what I like, so I've taken the Jonmc Music Show on the road. And drjimmy11, there's a lot of people who ride their hobbyhorses into the ground. That dosen't neccessarily mean I have to.

(I still maintain that the knish dog I ate last night is the peak of man's creativity and you cannot dissuade me)
posted by jonmc at 3:46 PM on February 12, 2007


scody: "...Swingin down the street so fancy-free!"

"Nobody on MeFi ever sees the loneliness there,
Inside you..."
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:49 PM on February 12, 2007


y'know after a few beers this all seems funnier. and I look handsomer.

There jon goes making this about him again.
posted by terrapin at 3:52 PM on February 12, 2007


That knish dog is still looking at me, man. I think it wants the ring.
posted by breezeway at 4:21 PM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


I just got paid $6.50/hr to read this whole thread!
posted by ludwig_van at 4:41 PM on February 12, 2007


You don't want to know what I got paid to comment in it.
posted by cortex at 4:59 PM on February 12, 2007


I get paid nothing. I only do this to promote my modeling career.
posted by jonmc at 5:06 PM on February 12, 2007


You're so pretty, even that knish dog is winking at you.
posted by breezeway at 5:27 PM on February 12, 2007


oh god will it never end
posted by petsounds at 6:16 PM on February 12, 2007 [1 favorite]


Your mising u questing makr.

YOU HAVE GOT TO GIVE ME MY PROPS!!!
posted by breezeway at 6:27 PM on February 12, 2007


petsounds, the feeling you are experiencing right now is very much like how I feel when I incautiously make a comment in a political thread on the blue. For hours—days?—afterward, the My Comments page punishes you, rubs in your face the strange circumstance of wishing you'd never had your say at all, devaluing your own desire to rightfully participate in the face of the horror of the endless disagreeable blather that comes after.

What I'm saying is I feel very close to you right now, you big lug.
posted by cortex at 6:32 PM on February 12, 2007


The hot dog New Yorkers relish?

*groan*

Is Wendell writing ad copy now?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:39 PM on February 12, 2007


(petsounds, brrezeway is a RL pal of mine. and now I'm gonna have to buy more of those knish dogs for him)
posted by jonmc at 6:52 PM on February 12, 2007


fandango_matt: Thankyou (and cortex, for the link) for mentioning the Kotex connection. Thankyou a million times.

I just signed up a particularly assholish ex-boss of mine and the glee I feel can not be measured. It is like the jumping of a thousand bunnies.

I hope he enjoys his maxi pads as much as I have enjoyed this thread.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 7:06 PM on February 12, 2007


Alright alright alright. I see no way out of this other than to insult all of you.

jonmc is a self-righteous attention whore who loves the sound of his own typing and has some deep-seated issues stemming from his being caught between blue collar roots, metropolitan life and a tech-savvy online community. Every day he goes online in the hopes that Paul Westerberg has finally started a blog; then, disappointed, he trods off to Metafilter, where he tends to clasp his opinion-du-jour not unlike a rabid hound, regardless of whatever counterarguments may be presented. I will henceforth refer to him as Mr Vibrating.

cortex
is a pompous self-appointed town crier, compulsively trolling MetaTalk for fresh postingses by naive younglings in order to provide these misguided fools with grandiose statements about "The Community" and "Proper Guidelines for the Common Good". Secretly he wishes he was the creator and sovereign ruler of this website. Strange, because then you'd think he would post to the front page more often. I will henceforth refer to him as Baldrick.

languagehat
is a compulsive intellectual nonconformist, only sprinkling his meandering and oh-so-informative asides with words like “anarchism!” and “descriptivism!” as if to say “Not only do I know these things (unlike you), I have also managed to maintain the esprit jeunesse of, say, an adolescent young turk filled with joie de vivre and a wide-eyed view on the world!”. I will henceforth refer to him as Frasier Crane.

mathowie is a socially awkward geek who thanked FSM on his knees the day he first beheld the Internets, and who had one half-decent idea in 1999 and decided to just sit back and reap the winnings. He really doesn't give a damn about Romanian village rituals or found photography or mildly amusing British "lad tv" shows, but happily keeps nodding in tacit agreement as long as the ads get their eyeballs and the people keep giving birth to their sockpuppets. Out of boredom and a half-hearted desire to keep the populace contented, he keeps adding features to a site that doesn't need them and which ultimately prove destructive, such as “Favourites” and “Image Tags”. I will henceforth refer to him as Thomas Midgley, Jr.

jessamyn is a wayward word-wench who never got over the fact that she was better at English than any of the boys in her class, thus scaring them away. A keen learner of new things, she's frustrated about still not having met her match in the ring of abecedarian arete, and so every eagerly emended error or punctiliciously perfected post (“Jess! I puked over the Existentialist section again!”) is simply the MeFi equivalent of yet another sublimated pregnancy. I will henceforth refer to her as Queen Mary I.

Not to mention one goodnewsfortheinsane, who logs onto this website only to get a petty kick out of seeing his self-alleged mad skills at the English language recognised (“I am ze Dutch, you know!”), upon which he quickly moves on to discuss his external auditory meatuses (gross!), caricature other members (pathetic!) and post songs about how miserable he is. I also hear he has sexual intercourse with woolly ruminants. I will henceforth refer to him as, well, that clog-wearing sheepfucker.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:55 PM on February 12, 2007 [31 favorites]


It's a bit sad because just this once I agree with jonmc and do believe violence is often the most appropriate response to disrespectful and impolite behavior. I also laugh at the deliberate liberal exoticism of violence that makes it into this big, mysterious taboo that only the poor and the sick can understand. (These are also the only ones who are expected to join the military when America's enemies need killing. You can see where this leads.) But yeah I didn't join the thread because jonmc had already got into his act and I didn't want anybody getting the wrong idea.
posted by nixerman at 8:28 PM on February 12, 2007


Alright alright alright. I see no way out of this other than to insult all of you.

Wanker.
posted by Jimbob at 8:56 PM on February 12, 2007


Secretly he wishes he was the creator and sovereign ruler of this website. Strange, because then you'd think he would post to the front page more often.

Don't you see? When I have finally killed the fool Haughey, the front page itself will be grey.
posted by cortex at 9:01 PM on February 12, 2007 [3 favorites]


Also, that brings to mind an old never-got-around-to-it notion: 88 Lines About 44 Mefites. It could work. Someone get Flo on the phone.
posted by cortex at 9:18 PM on February 12, 2007


i have a fish. in my pants.
because i just like to say smock.
and because riki tiki tavi said "rik nik nik", of ocurse...
posted by quonsar at 9:21 PM on February 12, 2007


Why unload all that labor onto IRFH, cortex? You've proposed an obvious candidate for wiki-work, sir.
posted by cgc373 at 9:34 PM on February 12, 2007


It's always interesting when we circle the wagons and start firing inward.

Also, this lonefrontranger person seems to be channeling cranky wonderchickengeist circa 2002 or so (leaving aside the penis absence). I am discombobulated but not unimpressed.

Yes, this thread is now all about me!

Guys? Where you goin'?

...guys?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:00 PM on February 12, 2007


[NOT SEXIST]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:00 PM on February 12, 2007


You cannot simply leave aside an absent penis, stav, whether SEXIST or otherwise. All penises must be accounted for.
posted by cgc373 at 10:03 PM on February 12, 2007


Hey, stav. How ya been?
posted by jonmc at 10:05 PM on February 12, 2007


Dodging the pile-ons and banging the rocks together, my friend. Same as always.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:13 PM on February 12, 2007


I'm a little more frayed around the edges than back in the old days, but otherwise the same.
posted by jonmc at 10:27 PM on February 12, 2007


she said "bunnyfiring."





heh.
posted by Hat Maui at 12:12 AM on February 13, 2007


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on bunnyfire off the shoulder of Orion...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:15 AM on February 13, 2007


I don't have time to read this entire MeTa. Whatever.

The idea that Jonmc "made it all about himself" is complete bullshit.

Jon didn't work alone. It took all the other folks who found fit to take issue with Jon's statements to create a thread that was "all about Jonmc". He made his comments. It was everyone else who decided his comments needed to be a focal point of the following discussion, that created the problem.

IMO: Jonmc manages to be one of the most real, 3-dimensional posters on Metafilter. Y'all bitching about him are the ones that need to step away from the keyboard and go out and get a life (something I suspect Jon has no lack of).
posted by Goofyy at 1:37 AM on February 13, 2007


My anger management problem SHOT DEAD your honor student.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:13 AM on February 13, 2007


Wasn't ye olde mcsquire quitting this vile site a bit ago?
posted by Wolof at 4:10 AM on February 13, 2007


MY PIT BULL CHEWED YOUR HONOR STUDENTS SCROTUM OFF
posted by quonsar at 4:12 AM on February 13, 2007 [2 favorites]


This is the gayest thread. Ever.
posted by four panels at 6:07 AM on February 13, 2007


For hours—days?—afterward, the My Comments page punishes you, rubs in your face the strange circumstance of wishing you'd never had your say at all, devaluing your own desire to rightfully participate in the face of the horror of the endless disagreeable blather that comes after.

That reminds me, cortex. There's a thread that needs commentin'!
posted by Kwine at 6:17 AM on February 13, 2007


Lemon and papercut, Kwine. Although, huh. It didn't work—I'm not seeing the thread. Must be the timeout for thread recency, because I saw Malor's on the 6th. Is it a two week cut-off, then?
posted by cortex at 6:38 AM on February 13, 2007


Must be. Damn. I was totally planning something big for the 24th.
posted by Kwine at 7:27 AM on February 13, 2007


Hmm. Mental note: when the comment-count on a MeTa thread is over a hundred, you'd be better off just reading it backwards.
posted by koeselitz at 7:59 AM on February 13, 2007


better yet, don't bother reading it at all.
posted by Dave Faris at 8:05 AM on February 13, 2007


Let alone comment!
posted by cortex at 8:31 AM on February 13, 2007


*litigates masses hanging from jockstrap*
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 8:59 AM on February 13, 2007


better yet, don't bother reading it at all.

But then they wouldn't read your sparklingly brilliant commentary!
posted by loquacious at 9:25 AM on February 13, 2007


this thread contains some of the worst metaphors i've ever seen. poking a polar bear with a stick? what the fuck, who does that?
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 10:01 AM on February 13, 2007


In Soviet Metafilter, bear pokes you!
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 10:08 AM on February 13, 2007


Where can I get some turnips?
posted by Mister_A at 10:52 AM on February 13, 2007


Tried the GUM store?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:59 AM on February 13, 2007


Comrade, this is the wrong section of GUM for being out of turnips. Down at the end there, just beyond the KGB agent pretending to be a babushka, that's where they're out of turnips. Here we are out of rutabagas.
posted by languagehat at 11:37 AM on February 13, 2007 [1 favorite]


I never specified the species of bear.

Annoy the bear of your choice. We are equal-opportunity bear harassers here, my friend.
posted by konolia at 11:38 AM on February 13, 2007


Cabbages, we got.
posted by konolia at 11:38 AM on February 13, 2007


Oh, yes! We have no bananas.
We have no bananas today.
posted by timeistight at 11:58 AM on February 13, 2007


If some people don't have their weekly fix of prejudiced sneering, there is no telling what will happen!

*sneers prejudiciously at dios, smiles*
posted by amberglow at 12:37 PM on February 13, 2007


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