"Obviously, you're not a golfer."

August 7, 2007 9:31 PM

I know I'll be run out on a rail for this, but jessamyn's deletion of the Bonds HR record FPP was weaker than the post itself. I take it she's not a baseball fan, because plenty of breaking newsfilter/obitfilter has stuck around on just such a quick post.
posted by rollbiz to etiquette/policy at 9:31 PM (56 comments total)

Come on, the deletion reason was pretty thorough. I bet it got flagged to hell. It was a lazy, quick post that was just trying to beat others to the punch.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:35 PM on August 7, 2007

Yeah, but we all hate Barry Bonds, and loved Bergman and Antonioni.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:35 PM on August 7, 2007

jessamyn's deletion of the Bonds HR record FPP was weaker than the post itself

Weak? Some steroids will fix that right up.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:36 PM on August 7, 2007 [7 favorites]

I wonder how you'll feel about the deletion of this one?
posted by SassHat at 9:37 PM on August 7, 2007 [3 favorites]

The elbow armour link was interesting.
posted by Mitheral at 9:38 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

The post sucked. Hopefully this will be the start of deleting other breaking news/obit threads from people that are just rushing to be the first to post it.
posted by puke & cry at 9:39 PM on August 7, 2007 [6 favorites]

The post in question...
posted by rollbiz at 9:39 PM on August 7, 2007

Why celebrate an accomplishment of a guy that cheated to achieve it? Looking back in history, people will remember the impact of those recently in the obitfilter whereas Barry Bonds will just be a one sentence bullet point on an already full timeline.
posted by spec80 at 9:39 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

The post sucked. Hopefully this will be the start of deleting other breaking news/obit threads from people that are just rushing to be the first to post it.

I'll wager that you won't find that to be the case.
posted by rollbiz at 9:41 PM on August 7, 2007

I flagged it. It's just lame to post something to MeFi, that is both of limited interest and being covered to death over at that little station you might have heard of, ESPN.

This is MetaFilter.
posted by oddman at 9:43 PM on August 7, 2007 [3 favorites]

spec80, my argument was not that he deserves anything other than a 72 point bold asterisk, but rather that if the post had been a rushed newsfilter on another suject it would have stood as many before it.
posted by rollbiz at 9:43 PM on August 7, 2007

For a moment there I thought this thread meant that Barry Bonds was dead.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 9:43 PM on August 7, 2007

I flagged it, too, if only to protect the world from "*".
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:44 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

Man. MetaTalk blows lately.
posted by eyeballkid at 9:45 PM on August 7, 2007 [2 favorites]

It's just lame to post something to MeFi, that is both of limited interest and being covered to death over at that little station you might have heard of[insert station here].

Yeah, that never happens.
posted by rollbiz at 9:45 PM on August 7, 2007

"spec80, my argument was not that he deserves anything other than a 72 point bold asterisk, but rather that if the post had been a rushed newsfilter on another suject it would have stood as many before it."

Maybe so, but you realize that's a very weak argument for keeping it, right?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:46 PM on August 7, 2007

The argument that there have been other equally lousy posts that have stuck around isn't really the strongest way to make your case. Obits are about the only exception to this, sometimes, and even then we'll axe terrible ones figuring that someone else will come along and post a better one.

Breaking a record isn't actually breaking news in the same way a bridge collapse is. There's nothing unfolding. There's no one on the edge of their seats wondering if their friends are okay. There is also an entire 'Filter site devoted to sports and this post is already there and discussion seems to be going pretty well.
posted by jessamyn at 9:47 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

The post was quick and lazy and you should are wasting the mods' time.
posted by anthill at 9:48 PM on August 7, 2007

Perhaps the moderators are like me, and prefer to get our sporting coverage of the latest tales of our abusive, steroid-loving Everyman Hero, Mr. Bonds, and his quest to achieve an unheard of 1000 freethrows in a period from other sources.
posted by cmonkey at 9:49 PM on August 7, 2007

eeeh... should be vs. are... = should are!
posted by anthill at 9:49 PM on August 7, 2007

"For a moment there I thought this thread meant that Barry Bonds was dead."

You know, I thought the exact same thing.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 9:50 PM on August 7, 2007

EB, again, if this had been "So-and-so movie star died" with one link to CNN, I'd bet a double chocolate chip cookie it would still be an FPP. I didn't say it was a great post, but I think when breaking and important things happen sometimes we have an important initial discussion on an often weak FPP.

This strikes me as just not caring for the subject matter.
posted by rollbiz at 9:50 PM on August 7, 2007

people seem really needled about this whole thing ...
posted by pyramid termite at 9:51 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Mitheral at 9:52 PM on August 7, 2007

How on earth can you have an important discussion about a man hitting a baseball past a certain point for the 756th time?
posted by cmonkey at 9:52 PM on August 7, 2007 [4 favorites]

last comment directed to rollbiz
posted by Mitheral at 9:52 PM on August 7, 2007

This is dumb. Go scrub your toilet or something and stop worrying if a really shitty and lazy post was deleted. 'Night.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:52 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

I am a hiiiiyuuuuuuge baseball fan. I have what to say about all of this--more, in fact, than I thought I would.

But this is MetaFilter, and if you're not going to bring it proper, bring it not. Nuke every one of these races to the bottom.
posted by kosem at 9:53 PM on August 7, 2007

I mean, sure, if you enjoy watching the sport, that's cool, but an "important initial discussion"?
posted by cmonkey at 9:54 PM on August 7, 2007

But this isn't breaking and important. What is there to discuss?

You can't say "I remember how Barry Bonds' penultimate hit affected me. It made me want to shoot my arm full of drugs (or however you take steroids) and go for the major leagues."

I'm honestly baffled at any possible discussion about this. There isn't anything to learn from this news other than it being a fact to memorize, if you are so inclined to do so for future use on Jeopardy in the year 2058.
posted by spec80 at 9:55 PM on August 7, 2007

So, how about those Mets?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:55 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

Mitheral The elbow armour link was interesting.

I just came here to say that. Good read.
posted by jeblis at 9:55 PM on August 7, 2007

EB, again, if this had been "So-and-so movie star died" with one link to CNN, I'd bet a double chocolate chip cookie it would still be an FPP.

Seriously, it wouldn't. Here is the obit tag. Go find one. In looking through that page, I'm actually impressed at how good a lot of the ObitFilter posts are.

I see a few NY Times obits. The only standalone CNN link I see was Anna Nicole Smith which, iirc, we had to leave up because we knew it would be replaced with exactly the same crappy post if we removed it. I could see a better Barry Bonds post, a much better one. You're so incensed, why don't you make one?
posted by jessamyn at 9:56 PM on August 7, 2007

jessamyn-

To say that I don't make the strongest argument for a weak FPP on the merits of being new and breaking and then giving me an example of obits as an exception you made to your rule is not the best way to make your case either. Bridges falling down are different territory, sure. But why do obits get an exception? There's nothing unfolding, no one's on the edge of their seats wondering if the person is still dead, etc, etc.
posted by rollbiz at 9:57 PM on August 7, 2007

How on earth can you have an important discussion about a man hitting a baseball past a certain point for the 756th time?

Very, very easily. We can talk about Lacan, we can talk about the best way to make foul, we can talk about the clusterfuck in Iraq, we can talk about LOLCats (!), and we damn sure can talk about baseball. Your distaste, respectfully, notfuckingwithstanding.
posted by kosem at 9:58 PM on August 7, 2007 [10 favorites]

EB, again, if this had been "So-and-so movie star died" with one link to CNN, I'd bet a double chocolate chip cookie it would still be an FPP. I didn't say it was a great post, but I think when breaking and important things happen sometimes we have an important initial discussion on an often weak FPP.


So when people die , it's like baseball? I can see that I guess.
posted by nola at 9:59 PM on August 7, 2007

rollbiz, GYOFB.
posted by vetiver at 10:01 PM on August 7, 2007

Yeah I made the post, and yeah, it was quick, and yeah, it was newsfilter, but so what? How many newsfilter posts do we see here on a weekly basis?

I'm hardly surprised that it got deleted, however, mostl--in my opinion--because there's a strong anti-sporting sentiment on this site, for better or for worse. I tend to think a lot of MeFites are the ones who loathed the "jocks" crowd back in their more acned days because they were the "geeks" crowd, so now that the geeks have their own website, nothing having to do with the jocks is allowed.

How on earth can you have an important discussion about a man hitting a baseball past a certain point for the 756th time?
...case in point.
posted by jckll at 10:02 PM on August 7, 2007

There's nothing unfolding, no one's on the edge of their seats wondering if the person is still dead, etc, etc.

I'm holding out hope that Schiavo might make a comeback and ask Zombie Babe Ruth to hit a homer.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:03 PM on August 7, 2007 [2 favorites]

It was just about the worst possible post that could have been made on the subject. People who have been paying attention to Bonds and the record knew this was coming; "hey, it happened" with minimal effort is a lousy post. Someone could (and probably will) put together a solid post about Bonds, homers, baseball, doping, etc, and that'll stand, and a good discussion can come of it.

In the mean time, this was just a really crappy post.
posted by cortex at 10:03 PM on August 7, 2007 [2 favorites]

You're so incensed, why don't you make one?

No thanks and not incensed, just trying to understand the logic.
posted by rollbiz at 10:04 PM on August 7, 2007

Batter Up!
posted by Burhanistan at 10:05 PM on August 7, 2007

I was a varsity cheerleader. Still didn't like the post. Sorry.
posted by spec80 at 10:05 PM on August 7, 2007

I tend to think a lot of MeFites are the ones who loathed the "jocks" crowd back in their more acned days because they were the "geeks" crowd, so now that the geeks have their own website, nothing having to do with the jocks is allowed.

I love hockey, I used to play hockey and I even enjoy talking about major milestones in hockey. But I sitll think it's quite a stretch to claim that talking about current sporting events is important enough to justify leaving a shitty FPP up about something that is better discussed with people who share a similar level of fanaticism. If he had taken an hour to come up with something better, this metatalk post wouldn't even be here.
posted by cmonkey at 10:10 PM on August 7, 2007 [2 favorites]

Don't know if there is really a big anti-sporting crowd here. Hell, even I have made one or two sports posts that *gasp* managed to not be deleted and I'm not exactly mr sporto by any sense of the imagination. The deletion reason even encourages someone else to take a crack at making a better post on the topic, and Lo' one appeared.
posted by edgeways at 10:12 PM on August 7, 2007

Burhanistan for the win!

By that, of course, I mean Slap*Happy.
posted by metasav at 10:12 PM on August 7, 2007

I make a comic out of baseball cards. And being as how that second, much better post isn't getting deleted by the "strong anti-sporting element" and it's getting on toward bed time in mod-land, I think we can probably put this one to bed.
posted by cortex at 10:13 PM on August 7, 2007

also...
There is also an entire 'Filter site devoted to sports and this post is already there and discussion seems to be going pretty well.

And the post there is exactly the same as it was here (in fact, it's even less). Could a nearly-identical post here not engender the same intelligent discussion? Sure, it's a sports-only site over there, but are we precluded from discussing sports on MeFi? I guess I should have read the fine print...
posted by jckll at 10:14 PM on August 7, 2007

Don't know if there is really a big anti-sporting crowd here. Hell, even I have made one or two sports posts that *gasp* managed to not be deleted and I'm not exactly mr sporto by any sense of the imagination. The deletion reason even encourages someone else to take a crack at making a better post on the topic, and Lo' one appeared.

But I sitll think it's quite a stretch to claim that talking about current sporting events is important enough to justify leaving a shitty FPP up about something that is better discussed with people who share a similar level of fanaticism. If he had taken an hour to come up with something better, this metatalk post wouldn't even be here.

Again, as OPP has insinuated, it seems as though there is a stricter "filter" on sports-related posts. Obviously my statement about sports content being disallowed is hyperbole, but the same type of newsfilter posts have been allowed for other subjects, why not sports?
posted by jckll at 10:17 PM on August 7, 2007

SportsFilter is a different site with a much narrower focus—by dint of that, they can arguably produce a better discussion of sports stuff based off a thin post because it's a given that a good proportion of the readership will really be (a) all over the news and (b) reading it from multiple sources anyway.

None of which has any effect on whether or not your post was really lazy and knee-jerk, cklennon. We are not precluded from discussing sports on MeFi, which is why the better post is standing still. I'm sorry if the deletion stings, but it's not about you, it's about reducing the number of crappy posts on the front page. Just rally and do better next time and all is well.
posted by cortex at 10:17 PM on August 7, 2007

Think of it like this, it is not a perfect system, there is not a robot somewhere making impartial decisions on what stays and what goes based on some arcane algorithmic equation, sometimes a crappy post slides through, but that is not an indication that all crappy posts should not be allowed to stand, _if_ there is a stricter filter on sports posts that would indicate that the sports posts that do stand will be of higher quality, which is a good thing.
I think a non confrontational exhortation for stricter filters in general would be a much more tenable position than essentially saying "X,Y,Z was crap, why can't I post crap too, it's not fair"
posted by edgeways at 10:26 PM on August 7, 2007

I'm hardly surprised that it got deleted, however, mostl--in my opinion--because there's a strong anti-sporting sentiment on this site, for better or for worse. I tend to think a lot of MeFites are the ones who loathed the "jocks" crowd back in their more acned days because they were the "geeks" crowd, so now that the geeks have their own website, nothing having to do with the jocks is allowed.

Oh please.

But then, you don't seem to have spent much time commenting in sports-tagged threads, so how would you know?
posted by rtha at 10:27 PM on August 7, 2007 [2 favorites]

Stings? Hardly. I hope to god I have more worthwhile metrics for measuring my self-worth.

But so what if there's a more specific site out there for discussing sports? Does that preclude us from doing so here? I am new to this whole "world wide web" thing, but I have to wager that there is a more specific site out there for just about everything we discuss here.

And I think my point is even further proven by the fact that a sports post was the one chosen to be thrown under the bus to "clean up" the FP, as you put it, while sportless-newsfilter and obitfilter posts for the most part go unscathed.

Lastly, while the subsequent post is still standing, it is really only tangentially related to the Home Run record and is really about maple bats. But I guess that's all the same to most MeFites who are unconcerned with such base pursuits as baseball.

But then, you don't seem to have spent much time commenting in sports-tagged threads, so how would you know?

Huh?
posted by jckll at 10:30 PM on August 7, 2007

I made the post at SportsFilter (I'm one of the co-founders), and I was working on a post for MetaFilter when the crappy one got posted.

The rules are different at the two sites. SportsFilter's much more breaking news-oriented, but we still try to link to unusual content. For example, I linked to an article on the Giants' web site instead of to an Associated Press article. I used "756" as the title because anyone who follows sports would know what that meant.

For MetaFilter, I'd include some supporting links and use a more descriptive title. I think Bond breaking a home run record that's stood for 33 years, longer than many MetaFilter members have been alive, is an acceptable subject for here.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:34 PM on August 7, 2007 [3 favorites]

But so what if there's a more specific site out there for discussing sports? Does that preclude us from doing so here? I am new to this whole "world wide web" thing, but I have to wager that there is a more specific site out there for just about everything we discuss here.

You are not reading my words or paying attention to current events on the front page. This post on the same subject is fine, and going well, and not even being considered for deletion. It is a good post. There is no preclusion to the topic, only to bad posts.

And I think my point is even further proven by the fact that a sports post was the one chosen to be thrown under the bus to "clean up" the FP, as you put it, while sportless-newsfilter and obitfilter posts for the most part go unscathed.

Again, the problem here is that you are not paying attention to the day-to-day administration of the site. Lots of crap gets deleted, and I can't remember the last sports post I nuked off-hand. Check out this google search for discussion of and resources for keeping track of deleted posts, if you really want to know the context about which you are complaining. We deleted crappy obit posts, we delete a lot of crappy newsfilter. That not every potentially deletable post gets deleted is not a free pass for the deletable post that does and in which you or anybody else has a personal emotional stake.

Lastly, while the subsequent post is still standing, it is really only tangentially related to the Home Run record and is really about maple bats. But I guess that's all the same to most MeFites who are unconcerned with such base pursuits as baseball.

Good lord. Go in to that thread and discuss the record in good faith and the problem is solved. That's actually how things usually work around here.

It really is time to hit the sack, and there is no new ground being covered here, so I'm going to go ahead and close this. cklennon, rollbiz, if any of this is still unclear or you have further questions, do some searching through the metatalk archives for related posts and then drop me an email if you need to.
posted by cortex at 10:36 PM on August 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

Huh?

You said: "...now that the geeks have their own website, nothing having to do with the jocks is allowed."

I linked to the (many) baseball- and sports-tagged FPPs.

I noted that you didn't seem to have commented in many of them, which leads me to believe that you simply haven't noticed the sports-tagged posts here.
posted by rtha at 10:37 PM on August 7, 2007