Metafilter self-fashioning April 3, 2008 5:01 PM Subscribe
Is there something more to this post that got it deleted?
It showed up in my RSS feed and I was interested to see the answers, but when I went to the thread I saw it had been deleted. I was a bit surprised-- though there is the one link to the geek fashion web site, otherwise seemed like a legitimate question offering an example of what the poster was looking for. I'm just curious if there is something that links puloxer to the website. (He hasn't posted anything else before, but I don't think that necessarily means that the post is only a plug and not also a legit AskMe.
It showed up in my RSS feed and I was interested to see the answers, but when I went to the thread I saw it had been deleted. I was a bit surprised-- though there is the one link to the geek fashion web site, otherwise seemed like a legitimate question offering an example of what the poster was looking for. I'm just curious if there is something that links puloxer to the website. (He hasn't posted anything else before, but I don't think that necessarily means that the post is only a plug and not also a legit AskMe.
I didn't do the research on this one, but what I remember from admin emails was some uncomfortable cross-over to activity on other sites pushing the same thing—sketchy enough to pull it (and see if maybe the user had anything to say about it) without being a definitely verified spammeroo kind of thing. Matt might be able to elaborate more.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:08 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:08 PM on April 3, 2008
The answers seem like they would be interesting, despite the intention of the poster. Would it have been possible to delete the url and notify the poster (with a request for them not to post the same url in the comments)?
posted by necessitas at 5:16 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by necessitas at 5:16 PM on April 3, 2008
Yeah, since the user has no history on the site, they raised the hackles of several users here and one person tied them to a community where the nerd fashion site owner also hung out. Some further digging revealed they may be either the same person or at the same college and likely friends. If you read the nerd fashion site owner's blog, it's pretty much obsessed with getting linked everywhere on earth and trying to make money off the site, so it was just sketchy enough to be pulled.
I don't know if I've ever publicly mentioned that I've banned SEO jackasses for posting fake questions here that sounded legit and got decent answers, but in the questions were links to their clients' websites using loaded phrases prepared for search engine robots. Ever since I started noticing this kind of really awful behavior (it's abusing a community's goodwill and trust so that someone can artificially rise higher in search results) I've had kind of a hair trigger about it.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:20 PM on April 3, 2008 [9 favorites]
I don't know if I've ever publicly mentioned that I've banned SEO jackasses for posting fake questions here that sounded legit and got decent answers, but in the questions were links to their clients' websites using loaded phrases prepared for search engine robots. Ever since I started noticing this kind of really awful behavior (it's abusing a community's goodwill and trust so that someone can artificially rise higher in search results) I've had kind of a hair trigger about it.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:20 PM on April 3, 2008 [9 favorites]
From what the Mod Squad have been saying lately, there's been an influx of evil spammers and SEO types lately, and so perhaps it's better to shoot first and ask questions later, to learn 'em. Just editing out the spammy bit (if that's what it turns out to have been) would probably encourage them, I'd think.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2008
Or, you know, what Matt said.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:21 PM on April 3, 2008
I don't think that's a hair trigger on the ask in question. If I'd have seen it I would have flagged it for spam without any other looking just opn the strength of brand new user and awkward phasing to get the url in.
posted by Mitheral at 5:25 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by Mitheral at 5:25 PM on April 3, 2008
necessitas and synechdoche, there have been a lot of questions along those lines, with excellent answers, in the past. A few are linked in the deleted thread, and others can be found by trying the tags "men" "fashion" "clothes" etc.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:43 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:43 PM on April 3, 2008
Cool, thanks. My curiosity has been satisfied.
posted by synecdoche at 5:53 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by synecdoche at 5:53 PM on April 3, 2008
Matt, you are probably right, but don't you think it is funny that they didn't even put the big link into a hyperlink?
posted by caddis at 6:03 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by caddis at 6:03 PM on April 3, 2008
I figured they did but it was removed. Pretty sorry spamming if they didn't though.
posted by puke & cry at 6:05 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by puke & cry at 6:05 PM on April 3, 2008
Question: is there such a thing as ethical SEO?
I'm curious, because all I know about the profession is when some scumbag gets caught spamming or astroturfing, plus that mildly funny douchey discussion where they tried to understand MeTa. Are there such things as ethical SEO people who use honest, above-board techniques to help boost a client's page rank?
posted by middleclasstool at 6:29 PM on April 3, 2008
I'm curious, because all I know about the profession is when some scumbag gets caught spamming or astroturfing, plus that mildly funny douchey discussion where they tried to understand MeTa. Are there such things as ethical SEO people who use honest, above-board techniques to help boost a client's page rank?
posted by middleclasstool at 6:29 PM on April 3, 2008
The internet is not the repository of good grace, beneficial intention and neighborly affection that it could be. I suspect that it is, in fact, the most efficient channel for the bad news, ill will, sludge and tar and raw meat craving for cheap orgasms and low overheard dollars that the the human id craves. It's up to you my dears, but don't expect any miracles. We got it pretty good here.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:30 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:30 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
"... is there such a thing as ethical SEO?"
There is no such thing as an ethical anything EO.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:39 PM on April 3, 2008
There is no such thing as an ethical anything EO.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:39 PM on April 3, 2008
plus that mildly funny douchey discussion where they tried to understand MeTa.
Where is this. I'm at work and will settle for mildly funny.
posted by Bookhouse at 6:41 PM on April 3, 2008
Where is this. I'm at work and will settle for mildly funny.
posted by Bookhouse at 6:41 PM on April 3, 2008
SEO by definition consists of ways to make your website appear high in the search results in the various search engines around. Ideally, the site will be the first one anyone looks at in its general category. These ways never seem to include what (in my opinion) is the best way to get your site popular: having a good website in the first place.
posted by flatluigi at 6:45 PM on April 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by flatluigi at 6:45 PM on April 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Middleclass tool, yes.
Someone once encapsulated SEO by saying "Google is the most important blind visitor you will ever have" as a way of helping website owners understand why accessibility, CSS and good markup are so critical to SEO. Those will take you 90% of the way IMHO.
On top of that, ethical SEO specialists can help you perfect the specifics within that structure, like tweaking page titles and picking specific phrases for keyword density without making it all go horribly robotic and wrong. The good ones have alliances with not-suckfull web marketers who can help you with things like authentic campaigns to increase links as well. (Posts on MeFi would not be part of that.)
It gets much broader but those are some examples.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:55 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Someone once encapsulated SEO by saying "Google is the most important blind visitor you will ever have" as a way of helping website owners understand why accessibility, CSS and good markup are so critical to SEO. Those will take you 90% of the way IMHO.
On top of that, ethical SEO specialists can help you perfect the specifics within that structure, like tweaking page titles and picking specific phrases for keyword density without making it all go horribly robotic and wrong. The good ones have alliances with not-suckfull web marketers who can help you with things like authentic campaigns to increase links as well. (Posts on MeFi would not be part of that.)
It gets much broader but those are some examples.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:55 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
posted by ikkyu2 at 7:05 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by ikkyu2 at 7:05 PM on April 3, 2008
There is no such thing as an ethical anything EO.
What about REO Speedwagon? Are you telling me they weren't ethical?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 7:35 PM on April 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
What about REO Speedwagon? Are you telling me they weren't ethical?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 7:35 PM on April 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Are there such things as ethical SEO people who use honest, above-board techniques to help boost a client's page rank?
I've never met one, but I would hope it'd be someone that told you how to write well, design something that looked nice, and contained information visitors would enjoy, because really, there's not much beyond that for boosting your visibility online that doesn't start veering off into unethical territory.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:38 PM on April 3, 2008
I've never met one, but I would hope it'd be someone that told you how to write well, design something that looked nice, and contained information visitors would enjoy, because really, there's not much beyond that for boosting your visibility online that doesn't start veering off into unethical territory.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:38 PM on April 3, 2008
It's been mentioned before, but it's no surprise that the bad people are targetting AskMe. Better than 50% of the Google searches I do on a given day bring back an AskMe thread in the top 5 or 10 hits, and often as not, the info I'm looking for is there. Serious googlejuice.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:49 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:49 PM on April 3, 2008
Are there such things as ethical SEO people who use honest, above-board techniques to help boost a client's page rank?
Hey, I just met one on the beach in Belize last week. Really! Fresh-faced, personable, earnest young just-outta-college guy who gave me a big frowny-face when I told him the givewell story and swore an oath upon his snorkelling mask that his company only engaged in white-hat SEO stuff and none of that spammy black-hat crap. Though the previous company that he worked for apparently did. And his big client now is a reputable Hollywood gossip site.
posted by googly at 8:04 PM on April 3, 2008
Hey, I just met one on the beach in Belize last week. Really! Fresh-faced, personable, earnest young just-outta-college guy who gave me a big frowny-face when I told him the givewell story and swore an oath upon his snorkelling mask that his company only engaged in white-hat SEO stuff and none of that spammy black-hat crap. Though the previous company that he worked for apparently did. And his big client now is a reputable Hollywood gossip site.
posted by googly at 8:04 PM on April 3, 2008
3 tips for ethical SEO optimization (In order of most importance to least)
1: provide good content or cool things.
2: be involved in web communities, and most importantly, contribute valuable things to them.
3: organize your content. structure your site around it so that users and search engine spiders can comprehend it sensibly.
anything else is gross, un-ethical, and lazy.
posted by localhuman at 9:34 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
1: provide good content or cool things.
2: be involved in web communities, and most importantly, contribute valuable things to them.
3: organize your content. structure your site around it so that users and search engine spiders can comprehend it sensibly.
anything else is gross, un-ethical, and lazy.
posted by localhuman at 9:34 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Are there such things as ethical SEO people who use honest, above-board techniques to help boost a client's page rank?"
Yeah, kinda. I've known a couple, and have done vaguely SEO stuff on consult. The advice, though, as many have mentioned here is to make sure that you're providing a lot of high-quality content, to have clear design both hierarchically and visually, and to be patient.
I dunno. I worked with some guys who wanted a magic bullet that would get them to the top of the rankings with their record store blog, and basically what I told them (to focus on an underserved niche and to write lots of good stuff that other people would be interested in) has worked for 'em, though it took a while. Folks that do this for a living probably have more specific advice, and more ideas regarding how to define niches and markets, but I was only in it for some free vinyl after I'd set up their initial website.
It's kind of like how there are ethical PR flacks, but the best known ones are liars like Ari Fleisher.
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 PM on April 3, 2008
Yeah, kinda. I've known a couple, and have done vaguely SEO stuff on consult. The advice, though, as many have mentioned here is to make sure that you're providing a lot of high-quality content, to have clear design both hierarchically and visually, and to be patient.
I dunno. I worked with some guys who wanted a magic bullet that would get them to the top of the rankings with their record store blog, and basically what I told them (to focus on an underserved niche and to write lots of good stuff that other people would be interested in) has worked for 'em, though it took a while. Folks that do this for a living probably have more specific advice, and more ideas regarding how to define niches and markets, but I was only in it for some free vinyl after I'd set up their initial website.
It's kind of like how there are ethical PR flacks, but the best known ones are liars like Ari Fleisher.
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 PM on April 3, 2008
I recently stumbled upon www.HotPatatta.com and I blown away by what a jaw-droppingly amazing site it is...
A connection to the site? Who, me? What would possibly lead you think I have a connection to the site?
posted by HotPatatta at 9:49 PM on April 3, 2008
A connection to the site? Who, me? What would possibly lead you think I have a connection to the site?
posted by HotPatatta at 9:49 PM on April 3, 2008
Matt, you are probably right, but don't you think it is funny that they didn't even put the big link into a hyperlink?
A lot of spammers are, in addition to being slimly little shits, also kind of stupid and bad at their vocation. They presume a site will autolink, or they don't learn to create links, or, shit, I don't know what. There's spammy value in even a plaintext url, and that's probably good enough as far as some of them are concerned.
Learning to spam is not something that most spammers probably go to school for.
ethical SEO people
Folks have covered the "yes, there are" thing pretty well. A lot of simple, basic white-hat SEO is just doing basic things to your site to make sure things aren't broken. Clean structure, thorough tagging, putting stuff in the right place and marked up well, etc. None of these things really requires "SEO" as a label, though, and I'm curious whether folks who aren't in the slimy end of the pool are trying to distance themselves from the label at all at this point.
I have a hard time trusting people who claim to be "white hat" SEO or who specifically disclaim that they "don't do any of that black hat stuff". I'll believe that there are ethical folks, as above, who just make that distinction in hopes of defending their work and the label it falls under, but pretty much every person I've run into online who starts discussing the color of their SEO hat actually subscribes to a lot of shit that falls firmly in the black territory but which for whatever reason they've convinced themselves is just A-OK hunky-dorey stuff. It's a very "I'm no dog rapist, I just kick them in the ribs!" kind of dynamic in practice.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:02 PM on April 3, 2008
A lot of spammers are, in addition to being slimly little shits, also kind of stupid and bad at their vocation. They presume a site will autolink, or they don't learn to create links, or, shit, I don't know what. There's spammy value in even a plaintext url, and that's probably good enough as far as some of them are concerned.
Learning to spam is not something that most spammers probably go to school for.
ethical SEO people
Folks have covered the "yes, there are" thing pretty well. A lot of simple, basic white-hat SEO is just doing basic things to your site to make sure things aren't broken. Clean structure, thorough tagging, putting stuff in the right place and marked up well, etc. None of these things really requires "SEO" as a label, though, and I'm curious whether folks who aren't in the slimy end of the pool are trying to distance themselves from the label at all at this point.
I have a hard time trusting people who claim to be "white hat" SEO or who specifically disclaim that they "don't do any of that black hat stuff". I'll believe that there are ethical folks, as above, who just make that distinction in hopes of defending their work and the label it falls under, but pretty much every person I've run into online who starts discussing the color of their SEO hat actually subscribes to a lot of shit that falls firmly in the black territory but which for whatever reason they've convinced themselves is just A-OK hunky-dorey stuff. It's a very "I'm no dog rapist, I just kick them in the ribs!" kind of dynamic in practice.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:02 PM on April 3, 2008
"What about REO Speedwagon? Are you telling me they weren't ethical?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese "
Not ethical, moral, or sanitary.
posted by arse_hat at 11:12 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese "
Not ethical, moral, or sanitary.
posted by arse_hat at 11:12 PM on April 3, 2008
I appreciate the work that the moderators are doing to keep SEO crap of MeFi. I hate 99.99% of all SEO practices, and I have 0.01% respect for the people who do that crap.
posted by gen at 1:23 AM on April 4, 2008
posted by gen at 1:23 AM on April 4, 2008
mathowie,
Your hairtrigger responses & understanding of loaded phrases prepared for search engine robots reveal that you were well selected.
We have upgraded you to Level Seven.
posted by the Cabal at 3:26 AM on April 4, 2008
Your hairtrigger responses & understanding of loaded phrases prepared for search engine robots reveal that you were well selected.
We have upgraded you to Level Seven.
posted by the Cabal at 3:26 AM on April 4, 2008
What about REO Speedwagon? Are you telling me they weren't ethical?
Canadian I think
posted by mattoxic at 4:33 AM on April 4, 2008
Canadian I think
posted by mattoxic at 4:33 AM on April 4, 2008
It was a fine vehicle, but I don't think they made it in their Canadian plant.
posted by caddis at 4:57 AM on April 4, 2008
posted by caddis at 4:57 AM on April 4, 2008
Neo was ethical. Wasn't he?
FULL DISCLOSURE: MY EMOTIONAL BIORHYTHMS ARE 100% COMPATIBLE WITH KEANU REEVES.*
* But he never calls.
posted by maxwelton at 5:00 AM on April 4, 2008
FULL DISCLOSURE: MY EMOTIONAL BIORHYTHMS ARE 100% COMPATIBLE WITH KEANU REEVES.*
* But he never calls.
posted by maxwelton at 5:00 AM on April 4, 2008
My "stage" name was Mario Speedwagon
posted by mattoxic at 5:01 AM on April 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by mattoxic at 5:01 AM on April 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
(Does some more checking with the celebrity biorhythm calculator...)
See ya, Keanu! Britney and I were made for each other, apparently.
posted by maxwelton at 5:06 AM on April 4, 2008
See ya, Keanu! Britney and I were made for each other, apparently.
posted by maxwelton at 5:06 AM on April 4, 2008
cortex: "... A lot of simple, basic white-hat SEO is just doing basic things to your site to make sure things aren't broken. Clean structure, thorough tagging, putting stuff in the right place and marked up well, etc. None of these things really requires "SEO" as a label, though, and I'm curious whether folks who aren't in the slimy end of the pool are trying to distance themselves from the label at all at this point.
I have a hard time trusting people who claim to be "white hat" SEO or who specifically disclaim that they "don't do any of that black hat stuff". I'll believe that there are ethical folks, as above, who just make that distinction in hopes of defending their work and the label it falls under, but pretty much every person I've run into online who starts discussing the color of their SEO hat actually subscribes to a lot of shit that falls firmly in the black territory but which for whatever reason they've convinced themselves is just A-OK hunky-dorey stuff. It's a very "I'm no dog rapist, I just kick them in the ribs!" kind of dynamic in practice."
Fortunately, these people are fairly easy to spot - they're the ones who make claims like "guaranteed #1 on Google in 30 days or your money back".
Is it just me, or are all these spammed AskMe questions worded almost identically? Do the self-help tips for spammers even give the wording for these things, yet fail to explain how to make a link, which is most of the point in the first place?
posted by dg at 5:13 AM on April 4, 2008
I have a hard time trusting people who claim to be "white hat" SEO or who specifically disclaim that they "don't do any of that black hat stuff". I'll believe that there are ethical folks, as above, who just make that distinction in hopes of defending their work and the label it falls under, but pretty much every person I've run into online who starts discussing the color of their SEO hat actually subscribes to a lot of shit that falls firmly in the black territory but which for whatever reason they've convinced themselves is just A-OK hunky-dorey stuff. It's a very "I'm no dog rapist, I just kick them in the ribs!" kind of dynamic in practice."
Fortunately, these people are fairly easy to spot - they're the ones who make claims like "guaranteed #1 on Google in 30 days or your money back".
Is it just me, or are all these spammed AskMe questions worded almost identically? Do the self-help tips for spammers even give the wording for these things, yet fail to explain how to make a link, which is most of the point in the first place?
posted by dg at 5:13 AM on April 4, 2008
The best way I've found to get clients to agree to modern accessibility practices is not because of their interest in conforming to Sec 508, but because it helps Google rank them better. I hate that, but it makes everybody happy so it works out.
posted by ardgedee at 6:18 AM on April 4, 2008
posted by ardgedee at 6:18 AM on April 4, 2008
There is no such thing as an ethical anything EO.
James Watt would like a quiet, sepulchral word.
posted by Sparx at 7:02 AM on April 4, 2008
James Watt would like a quiet, sepulchral word.
posted by Sparx at 7:02 AM on April 4, 2008
What are some COMMUNITY WEBLOG basics/theory resources?
I'm looking for some COMMUNITY WEBLOG resources. I'm more interested in FPPs and QUERYING THE HIVE MIND, rather than specific items (like SIDEBAR X, FAVORITED Y, etc).
I recently stumbled upon METAFILTER.com, and was blown away by the things no one ever taught me. I've been IGNORING ROGER EBERT my entire life :( I'm looking for something like that, but more in depth. Other theory things like how to match FEDORAS/STRIPES etc would be helpful too.
Some background about myself: mid/LATE-20's asian FEmale, recent GRAD SCHOOL grad, profession: engineer OF AWESOME.
posted by ME to RELATIONSHIPS, INTERNET, & COMPUTER (2 comments total)
..........
i just posted that on a few thousand websites. that wont seem so suspicious or anything, right?
posted by NikitaNikita at 8:47 AM on April 4, 2008
I'm looking for some COMMUNITY WEBLOG resources. I'm more interested in FPPs and QUERYING THE HIVE MIND, rather than specific items (like SIDEBAR X, FAVORITED Y, etc).
I recently stumbled upon METAFILTER.com, and was blown away by the things no one ever taught me. I've been IGNORING ROGER EBERT my entire life :( I'm looking for something like that, but more in depth. Other theory things like how to match FEDORAS/STRIPES etc would be helpful too.
Some background about myself: mid/LATE-20's asian FEmale, recent GRAD SCHOOL grad, profession: engineer OF AWESOME.
posted by ME to RELATIONSHIPS, INTERNET, & COMPUTER (2 comments total)
..........
i just posted that on a few thousand websites. that wont seem so suspicious or anything, right?
posted by NikitaNikita at 8:47 AM on April 4, 2008
DarlingBri: "Someone once encapsulated SEO by saying "Google is the most important blind visitor you will ever have" as a way of helping website owners understand why accessibility, CSS and good markup are so critical to SEO. Those will take you 90% of the way IMHO."
Eh, in my experience google doesn't give two pieces of doo doo about the actual content in your site anymore, plus there are going to be a hundred similar sites with the same content as you. No, it's all about being linked to by prominent blogs. Managing to get your website linked to by something like MetaFilter (for example, by having an awesome page that impresses a MeFite) is like SEO crack.
posted by Deathalicious at 1:36 PM on April 4, 2008
Eh, in my experience google doesn't give two pieces of doo doo about the actual content in your site anymore, plus there are going to be a hundred similar sites with the same content as you. No, it's all about being linked to by prominent blogs. Managing to get your website linked to by something like MetaFilter (for example, by having an awesome page that impresses a MeFite) is like SEO crack.
posted by Deathalicious at 1:36 PM on April 4, 2008
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posted by WalterMitty at 5:07 PM on April 3, 2008