Mission Accomplished

May 18, 2008 11:33 AM

Is there a point to this other than to encourage a pissfest?
posted by Krrrlson to etiquette/policy at 11:33 AM (145 comments total)

Krrrlson, you're hilarious. If it were 4chan or Digg in the FPP, you'd be lulzing along with everyone else. But no -- it's Krrrlson's favorite hysterically anti-Arab bathroom wall! To the ramparts, comrades! Down with the oppressors!
posted by Avenger at 11:42 AM on May 18, 2008 [6 favorites]

Nerd fights are the worst.
posted by geoff. at 11:46 AM on May 18, 2008

If nothing else, that pissfest spawned this potential one.
posted by Dave Faris at 11:52 AM on May 18, 2008

It would be nice if there was some extra policing of the "LGF is worse than congenital anencephaly" comments.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 11:54 AM on May 18, 2008

There doesn't actually have to be any extraordinary pissfest, here. The premise behind the post is interesting and not really LGF-specific—LGF just happens to be the site involved in the feedback loop. I know there are folks here who dislike folks there and vice versa, but there's been pretty much zero cross-site drama for a long time now and that can probably continue to be the case, occasional "they're talking about us" threads notwithstanding, if we don't go out of our way to make a big deal about it.
posted by cortex at 11:55 AM on May 18, 2008

I don't know. I'm pretty positive that LGF meets every criteria you could come up with for a hate site.

I mean, there are some right-wing politics sites out there that are... worthwhile.. but in my humble opinion, LGF is not one of them.
posted by kbanas at 11:57 AM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Oops. My bad, cortex.
posted by kbanas at 11:58 AM on May 18, 2008

Is there a point to this other than to encourage a pissfest?
posted by dersins at 12:07 PM on May 18, 2008

this pissfest, does it help with constipation?
posted by localhuman at 12:11 PM on May 18, 2008

There doesn't actually have to be any extraordinary pissfest, here.

Revolt of the Lab Rats... paranoia... hateful little blog... pretty funny how paranoid and irrational and crazy those people are... it a fantasy landscape where they can post their noxious views... someone needs to do a study of the commenter's DNA and find out how many were the result of brother/sister marriage... their labrat-in-chief... I've long suspected MPDSEA of being a spy from LGF...

Oh, okay then. The overseers show their colours yet again. It's pretty funny to watch you feign objectivity while pandering spinelessly to the mob.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled Two Minutes Hate.
posted by Krrrlson at 12:12 PM on May 18, 2008

Krrrlson, clearly you're confused on what extraordinary means.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:17 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

What the fuck, K. It's my job to wave a magic wand and make both this site and that one not have any snarky jabs at the other? Some folks have already been acting like dorks, yes, and I've left a comment in the thread on the blue already asking for folks not to run with the anti-LGF snark and I'll be spending a nice Sunday afternoon keeping an eye on the damn thing.

I have no illusions that this cross-site stuff isn't a problem, and it goes both ways, but I honestly don't see how you see this post as being likely to lead to less fanning of the flames. You don't really seem to be trying to help.
posted by cortex at 12:17 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Um, Krrlson, the post isn't even being negative about LGF. Indeed, I feel a little dirty now, having uncomfortably gained a little respect for the LGFers who correctly figured out what the research was all about (as the liberal researchers generously point out in their response).

But let's say it did make LGF look bad. Then what? You get to play the martyr and we're supposed to indulge your special pleading because this time it's your sacred ox getting gored?

Forget that noise. Like any other post, if it's not to your taste, no one is forcing you to read it. I think that's called laissez faire or "unregulated market choice" or "freedom" or something cool like that.
posted by orthogonality at 12:18 PM on May 18, 2008 [6 favorites]

Yes, it pointed out an interesting story- and even gave LGF some deserved credit for collectively figuring it out. However the point of this thread? Pissfest begin!
posted by pedmands at 12:21 PM on May 18, 2008

You know, I fixed a typo in that post early on and looked at it thinking "hey don't we delete LGF stuff on sight just to keep people from being jackholes about it...?" and then I read the post and looked at the links and thought, like cortex, that it was an interesting topic that really didn't play to any of the OMG aspects of LGF and I thought maybe, just maybe, this one time people would be decent and not go off on inane tangents about grudgematch nonsense.

It's pretty funny to watch you feign objectivity while pandering spinelessly to the mob.

Totally out of line and untrue.

Just damned disappointing, I'd say. Cortex, move over on the babysitting couch and pass the doritos.
posted by jessamyn at 12:23 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Quick. Somebody mention Hamas and then you'll really see a pissfest!
posted by tkchrist at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2008

That is no pissfest. This is a pissfest.
posted by netbros at 12:31 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Is there a point to this other than to encourage a pissfest?

yes - it's to ferret out the unbelievers and hoist them with pitchforks onto our burning torches as EVIL HERETICS!!

thanks for playing - which side would you like cooked first?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:41 PM on May 18, 2008

I just got to the second safehouse in GTA. Man, that's a game.
posted by kbanas at 12:46 PM on May 18, 2008 [4 favorites]

I regret my pissfest contribution. I just had never visited the site before and was thunderstruck.

There is so much of the web I avoid because it makes me pessimistic about humanity. Insane partisanship sites. Videos of people shooting prairie dogs. Anything involving needles.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:46 PM on May 18, 2008

I honestly don't see how you see this post as being likely to lead to less fanning of the flames. You don't really seem to be trying to help.

He's trying to cut potential derision of LGF (and its members) off at the pass by trying to get the thread deleted. Classic slippery slope straw man.

The argument might hold a little more weight if it didn't come from a constant contrarian who more often than not creates R vs. D arguments out of thin air, just to rile up the townsfolk.

Here's a thought, Krrrlson: trying being just slightly, slightly, less blatantly partisan when commenting on the Blue, while trying not to piss off the usual suspects, and maybe, maybe people wouldn't treat you like a loudmouth troll trotting out a tired "liberal bias argument". I'm not saying that there isn't a bias; but your contributions on the Blue (and the messes you often create) make it impossible to publicly agree with you.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 12:50 PM on May 18, 2008 [3 favorites]

Last time I went to PissFest I lost a perfectly good Frisbee. But Sammy Hagar ROCKED. And, as promised, there was lots of good pissing.
posted by tkchrist at 12:59 PM on May 18, 2008

I've just been reading through the comments over at LGF. I'm very pleased that some of the posters have touched on my post in the MeFi thread.

They are doing a great job of internalizing my comments. I love the, "WTF? We can search!" posts... slightly missing the point, but I give them credit for the effort.
posted by wfrgms at 1:02 PM on May 18, 2008

The overseers show their colours yet again.

What colours are the overseers wearing these days?
posted by homunculus at 1:04 PM on May 18, 2008

Overseer colors change seasonally, to reflect the changes that occur in nature around the year. In spring, they wear anti-American greens and Islomacist blues, rooted in the actual anti-American and Islamofascist colors that can be found in nature at this of year. But, come fall, it will be time to break out the moonbat reds and the feminazi oranges.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:19 PM on May 18, 2008 [3 favorites]

Tsk, you forgot the summer seafoam-y turquoises of the European Bankers.
posted by CKmtl at 1:26 PM on May 18, 2008

The argument might hold a little more weight if it didn't come from a constant contrarian who more often than not creates R vs. D arguments out of thin air, just to rile up the townsfolk.

It is quite impossible to create an R vs. D argument here, because you'd have no one to argue with but straw men (which never stops anyone, of course, as we can see in this latest LGF thread). And while I do tend to be contrarian, I am certainly not partisan -- but since the concept of a (political) dissenting opinion does not exist here, a contrarian is left with few options.

Any claims that I am here to shield LGF from your oh-so-damning criticism hold no weight. I am not anyone's ambassador, and the userbases for the two sites are so different that the only effect of these pissfests will be to occupy precious bits on a hard drive. I do, however, take exception to moderators who claim to be impartial while caving to the will of the shrillest in almost every case (obesity, Hillary, pissing on gay and/or dead Republicans, and many more). A post that called DailyKos users a bunch of "paranoid lab rats" would have lasted all of 5 seconds; in fact, there is an abundance of evidence that we're okay with pissfests here as long as everyone is pissing in the same direction. But if you profess objectivity, either enforce it, or drop it.
posted by Krrrlson at 1:40 PM on May 18, 2008

Jesus god, please close this thread.
posted by mediareport at 1:41 PM on May 18, 2008

But, come fall, it will be time to break out the moonbat reds and the feminazi oranges.

i should point out that all of these colors look very smart when accessorized with black helicopters
posted by pyramid termite at 1:55 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

A post that called DailyKos users a bunch of "paranoid lab rats"

As would a post that called LGFers a bunch of "paranoid lab rats" which, incidentally, this didn't. You're selectively quoting from comments. The post itself was actually pretty balanced and decent and interesting. The comments have gone a few interesting ways including a guy from LGF and someone from CMU chiming in. There were some shitty comments but generally it's a good thread.

I don't claim to be impartial or objective, but my preferences (and cortex's and mathowie's) are pretty well-known and we try not to let our personal political/topical issue preferences impact deletion decisions. Our decisions are generally pretty consistent and justifiable when we're called on them. If you don't like them, you're welcome to your opinion and your MeTa thread, but you'd make a better case if you weren't being so ornery about it.
posted by jessamyn at 1:55 PM on May 18, 2008

mediareport: "Jesus god, please close this thread."

We have a fifth moderator now?
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:58 PM on May 18, 2008 [4 favorites]

Wingnut pleas for objectivity pretty much amount to "please level the playing field for my inherent idiocy and bigotry."

Entirely IMHO of course. I'd hate to see any more pee pee sprayed around here today, no sir.
posted by bardic at 2:01 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

"Jesus god, please close this thread."

We have a fifth moderator now?

Well, his methods are rather brutal

Krrrlson, dude, there's something to be said for considering the source. You've been here long enough to know what people's responses are going to be, why beat your head against a wall?
posted by jonmc at 2:02 PM on May 18, 2008

More of a copilot, corpse.
posted by cortex at 2:02 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

mediareport: "Jesus god, please close this thread."

We have a fifth moderator now?

*sigh* The Holy Ghost gets left out once again. It's a trinity people! Get it straight!

And on Trinity Sunday, no less...
posted by wfrgms at 2:06 PM on May 18, 2008

see here, wfrgms.
posted by cortex at 2:11 PM on May 18, 2008

I haven't taken a piss all week. I feel like I could piss over the moon and back. How are we doing this, branched semifinals or staggered heats?
posted by loquacious at 2:18 PM on May 18, 2008

You know those fountains at the Bellagio in Vegas? Like that, dude.
posted by jonmc at 2:21 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

I also dropped a "cut that shit out" note into the thread and I know cortex did earlier as well.
posted by jessamyn at 2:26 PM on May 18, 2008

Staggered heats it is, then. Hey... HEY! Don't cross the streams, man! That's just wrong!
posted by loquacious at 2:26 PM on May 18, 2008 [3 favorites]

Let them mingle and learn from their chemical differences.
posted by jonmc at 2:32 PM on May 18, 2008

I just got a message from Jessamyn in email that my "Storm Fr0nt Lite" sarcastic comparison was deleted. Although, she seems to be under the misconception that I started the LGF post. Here is an except of what I sent her:

"I am disappointed that the internet jackboots have you running scared."

To coerce silence is a sad task.
posted by meehawl at 2:33 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

krrrlson, Though I did point to what I thought was a level of paranoia on LGF, I didn't intend "lab rats" as an insult to the LGF folks. Rather, I was trying to comment on the situation by reducing it to cartoonish "researchers" in lab-coats and little white mice(balls) in cages. My odd humor. And I probably should have foreseen a potential negative reaction to this post. Sorry I didn't.

But my interest in making the FPP, as cortex and jessamyn so helpfully point out above, was in the relationship between web researchers and the folks who provide them with textual fodder. And the thread has provided some decent discussion of that. And I got a kick out of the note from the researchers back to the LGF crew. I thought that was well-written.

Sorry to be so late in responding to this. I was out doing Sunday stuff with my family.
posted by mmahaffie at 2:34 PM on May 18, 2008

My apologies for confusing meehawl and mmahaffie.

Thanks for reproducing the jackboots quote so I didn't have to.

This is my Sunday, folks.
posted by jessamyn at 2:37 PM on May 18, 2008

jessamyn: running scared from a boot stamping on a human face -- forever

lol
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:44 PM on May 18, 2008

Just be glad you have a Sunday. If it was up to the Muslims and liberals, you wouldn't.
posted by found missing at 2:44 PM on May 18, 2008 [4 favorites]

I thought maybe, just maybe, this one time people would be decent and not go off on inane tangents about grudgematch nonsense.

Well, I stayed the hell out of it. Put that one in your win column. ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:46 PM on May 18, 2008

Anyway, "running scared" makes me think of the movie with Billy Crystal and Greg Hines. I imagine cortex as Crystal and jessamyn as Hines, which makes mathowie The Captain and I think pb is the dude at the airport who analyzes the cocaine and says "This shit is shit".

vacapinta is the nun in the taxi.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:46 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

In a strange twist, I've been drinking Absinthe, killing rats, and pissing all morning, so all the footballs are little and green and all of the rats are bloody paranoid and the commode smells like anise instead of anus. True story. Mission Accomplished.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:46 PM on May 18, 2008

It was a beautiful day outside today. The FPS was awesome and the ambient sound made me feel like I was really there!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:59 PM on May 18, 2008

Krrlson, I wonder if you realize how ironic this post is, or, for that matter, if you're capable of enough introspection to even be able to. You're bitching about the 'pissfest' -- and you yourself are probably the single pissiest person in either thread.

Note: the quote you pulled out as 'evidence' was a joke. It was purposely wildly over the top. But your mental map of 'liberals are all evil' is so overwhelmingly powerful that you couldn't even see that; you thought it was real.

The sources you're accepting for your programming are you doing you a terrible disservice. They're sticking these ideas in your head for their benefit, not yours. I don't know if it's even possible to reach you anymore, lost in that vortex of self-reinforcing falsity, but I'll give it one little shot: wake up. Pay attention. Metafilter is not full of evil people. Those making these claims use them as a manipulative tool to prevent you from actually thinking about the issues we think are important... because if you thought about those ideas on their own, you might actually agree with them. So, they try desperately to prevent that, by trying to put you in 'those are all evil people, and should be ignored' mode.

Again: this isn't for your benefit. Your urge to righteous fury is being hijacked, and you are poorer for it.
posted by Malor at 3:00 PM on May 18, 2008

Haughey Deletes LGF Link

Haughey Deletes Another LGF Thread at MeFi

Dude seems to have a chip on his shoulder back in 2002 and 2003. Course, here we are with a LGF thread still up...
posted by wfrgms at 3:01 PM on May 18, 2008

These fights between rival sites always amuse me since people get so life-and-death about it all, even though if they stopped to think for five seconds theyd realize that 99.999% of the universe could care less whether we live, die or go bowling. And both sides will say that dosen't matter, it's the principle!' Which is 100% 14karat, bonified, certified, straight off the assembly line, complete with all the accesories, bottled-in-bond, reccomended by Duncan Hines bullshit of the purest ray serene.

It's about ego, plain and simple. If you really wanted to solve the world's problems LGF'er or MeFite alike, you'd go out and do something rather than sit around and play at the Advanced Elite Green Beret World Cup level I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I.
posted by jonmc at 3:09 PM on May 18, 2008 [5 favorites]

I think you underestimate how many people are on my "Astro Zombie is going bowling" alert list. It's about 3 billion people.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:14 PM on May 18, 2008

you'd go out and do something rather than sit around and play at the Advanced Elite Green Beret World Cup level I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I.

I don't need to fix shit. It's not my fault.

You know who I blame for the worlds problems? Not LGF. Hell no. They are just responding to depravity. No.

You know who I blame? I blame Madonna. That's who I blame. So let her fix these problems. You hear me Madge?! GO FIX THESE PROBLEMS!

let me know when they get fixed I got some more posts to compose.
posted by tkchrist at 3:15 PM on May 18, 2008

They're fixed. Here's a margarita and a crab puff.
posted by jonmc at 3:17 PM on May 18, 2008

From wfgrms link:

"Once again we see how so-called liberals try to delete, shout down, or suppress views they don’t like. How pathetic."

My god that is precious. If this was a science fiction movie the sheer mass of that level of quantum irony and cognitive dissonance would open up a black hole and transport us to an alternate universe. A universe where people have the positions of their mouths and rectums reversed and planet they lived on would be called Kettleblack Alpha 5.
posted by tkchrist at 3:24 PM on May 18, 2008 [7 favorites]

Does this Charles person run/edit the site, with posts made by a variety of contributors, or is he the sole author?

Just asking 'cuz I know absolutely nothing about LGF (and really couldn't give a fuck), but the use of "our readers" in that second bitch-and-moan-about-Haughey link struck me as odd considering LGF's wikipedia entry and a lot of the comments focus on this Charles dude.
posted by CKmtl at 3:25 PM on May 18, 2008

I believe the mods are dressed in Threat Level Orange today.
posted by rtha at 3:31 PM on May 18, 2008

"I am disappointed that the internet jackboots have you running scared."

that's nothing - whenever i visit lgf my mouse cord gets tied up in little nazis
posted by pyramid termite at 3:42 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

So where's the beer?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:45 PM on May 18, 2008

I remember when LGF threads were being deleted left and right. It was done as part of a number of measures put in place to stop a big old fight between the two blogs, and it succeeded.

Good to see that both the Anti-LGF and Pro-LGF people are angered by the lack/glut of deletions in the thread. When you're pissing the extremists on both side off, you're probably doing the right thing.

Krrrlson: I think you made a mistake going after the original post and not the more poisonous comments. Plus, that whole paraphrasing to make everyone look like they're putting the boot in thing didn't help. IMO, you should have highlighted those that were out of order, and left everyone else alone. As irritating as the MeFi Liberal Rottweilers are, they make up a tiny percentage of the user base.
posted by seanyboy at 3:46 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Oh no, it's not that kind of pissfest is it? Uh, I think I left the oven on, guys.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:46 PM on May 18, 2008

I believe the mods are dressed in Threat Level Orange today.

As many can attest, I am always dressed in Threat Level Orange.
posted by jessamyn at 3:49 PM on May 18, 2008

I know little about LGF and care less, and am not the least bit interested in defending them, but hassling the guy for using the editorial "we" seems a little beside the point.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 3:50 PM on May 18, 2008

CKmtl: "I know absolutely nothing about LGF (and really couldn't give a fuck) ... considering LGF's wikipedia entry"

You know, I don't really know much about the site either except that a few years ago my website was crashing out and when I tracked down the cause, it was a DDOS and copypasta raid orchestrated within an LGF thread by some unusually vitriolic people who'd found something I wrote and disagreed with it. I was surprised there were apparently so many people there who made it their business to take down offending material not carried on their website.

Anyway, that was several years ago and I wanted to check out what the site was doing now. So I typed "LGF" into Wikipedia, and one of the options was:

The Lesbian & Gay Foundation

Oh how poetic. I like the lulz take on LGF.
posted by meehawl at 3:55 PM on May 18, 2008

I've been drinking Absinthe, killing rats, and pissing all morning

....are you also driving a boat?
posted by The Light Fantastic at 3:57 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

We're having a pisstest on MeFi? Couldn't someone have given us a bit of notice that this was going to happen? Do you know how many of us are gonna screwed?

Mind you, I only had the White Doves and the Brown Biscuits. I totally missed out on the Little Green Footballs, so perhaps I'll be OK?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:01 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

As many can attest, I am always dressed in Threat Level Orange.

It looks great on you. Really brings out the color of your eyes!
posted by rtha at 4:03 PM on May 18, 2008

Y'know, LGF (and Democratic Underground and DailyKos and all the rest of these people who seem to like to watch Meet The Press naked with a skidload of Kleenex from Sam's Club) reinforce my belief that political zealots are basically a secular version of religious fundamentalists. They annoy people for the same reasons: they can't make a deciion or a judgement without first checking the playbook, they find reasons to inject their beliefs into a conversation about absolutely everything and finally, nothing is ever good enough for them. So to hell with them, right, left and out-of-left-field alike. If you find yourself believing strongly in some ideology, do the world a favor and lobotomize yourself with a can opener.
posted by jonmc at 4:03 PM on May 18, 2008 [16 favorites]

If you find yourself believing strongly in some ideology, do the world a favor and lobotomize yourself with a can opener.

Yeah. Fuck that Martin Luther King! And that fucking trouble maker Ghandi! God. Don't get me started on that asshole Thomas Jefferson!

Take it to the middle Jonmc. Straight to the safe comfortable middle. It's where things get done!
posted by tkchrist at 4:11 PM on May 18, 2008 [15 favorites]

The middle isn't that comfortable. And rarely if ever does anything ever get done anywhere unless push comes to shove. And don't hand me Gandhi and Dr. King. You and I, we're not them, never will be. Neither will most people. People like them are so rare that the church of my youth had a word for them: Saints. Like the extremely smart or the extremely beautiful or the extremely gifted at any endeavor, they inhabit a different world than the rest of the human race. And those who think they are members of that any of those aforementioned groups are usually wrong and usually wind up doing a whole lot of damage.

And don't hand me that crap about the 'comfortable middle.' I have my opinions, some of which might be opretty far afield to some people. But you know what, so do my barber, my bartender and the guy I once saw on the corner of Bleeker and LaGuardia ranting about the Warren Commission while clutching his head. Dosen'tmean anyone really wants to hear it.
posted by jonmc at 4:17 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

MLK and Ghandi were not saints. If we could eliminate that attitude there we would be much farther ahead. No Jon. They were people. They were flawed people. But they believed strongly in something. And when guys told them to shit up about it... they kept on talking. THAT is where they were exceptional.

It's strong beliefs that change the world. For good and ill. Not all beliefs are created equally.

People who believe passionately in things sometimes are bad. Sometimes very, very bad. Most of the time they are slightly misguided or well intended but deluded.

And other times they are just ahead of the curve. But we would not have gotten anywhere on this rock with out any of them.

The truth is painful to hear. Nobody wants to hear the truth. The truth ALWAYS hurts more than the lies. People who don't want to hear it? That's a luxury. You don't want here about it? You know why? You are doing so well that most of the worlds serious problems remain abstract to you.

People don't want to hear the truth until they forced, manipulated, or in the best of cases, finally inspired to act. But you cant decide to act if you don't let them talk.
posted by tkchrist at 4:30 PM on May 18, 2008 [3 favorites]

So, you're basically trying to compare your average internet jagoff to Gandhi and Dr. King? C'mon, all this glorygloryhallelujah bullshit aside, you're smarter than that. 99.99% politics of any stripe from anarchism to monarchy is about nothing more than money, power, sex, and ego and which 'leader,' it goes to.
posted by jonmc at 4:33 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Uh, did someone change my link in our thread?

This paragraph

I think CJ (Chief Lizard, LGF Towers, Lalaland) regularly visitsMefi. How else could he be this quick:

Metafilter Doesn't Heart LGF

Sun, May 18, 2008 at 9:09:51 am PST

They like us, they really like us: Revolt of the Lab Rats? Or Voyeur Caught Watching? | MetaFilter.

OK, I'm being sarcastic. Truth is, they really hate us. A lot.

But it's funny to read their clueless comments, completely misconstruing the direction and purpose of Little Green Footballs, and spewing hatred in all directions like psychotic manbabies with insomnia. Which is pretty much what all the purblind leftist drones do.

Link NSFM: do not quote comments there back here, it just ain't worth it.
posted by dash_slot-Me at 4:21 PM on May 18

should link here
posted by dash_slot- at 4:35 PM on May 18, 2008

Uh, here.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:37 PM on May 18, 2008

do the world a favor and lobotomize yourself with a can opener

i tried that but had to give up after my 12th bottle of busch
posted by pyramid termite at 4:37 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

No. C'mon. And. Your better than this. This common man shtick is a facade for your own intellectual laziness. And I understand. There is a significant amount of noise out there. Sometimes you just can't listen to it all.

What I'm saying is saying they should get "lobotomized" for "having strong beliefs" is painting them with a very broad brush. And a very extremist point of view in and of itself. Even as a joke.

Judge them on the merits of the ideas themselves. But let them talk. You don't have to listen all the time. But let them talk. You will quickly see they are not ALL the same.
posted by tkchrist at 4:39 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Sometimes I miss Paris
posted by hortense at 4:40 PM on May 18, 2008

Lumping hate sites like LGF with an admittedly very partisan but basically harmless site like DailyKos serves nothing but to legitimize hate and de-legitimize the opponents of hate. You should do better.
posted by Justinian at 4:40 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Dude, they have pop-tops now.

Now, everybody sing along....

Cops and America's Most Wanted are on soon, so I'm going to get my weekly dose of relief that it's not me.
posted by jonmc at 4:43 PM on May 18, 2008

Judge them on the merits of the ideas themselves. But let them talk. You don't have to listen all the time. But let them talk. You will quickly see they are not ALL the same.

I don't have to listen to them at all. But in general, ideologes suck donkey ass.
posted by jonmc at 4:45 PM on May 18, 2008

It's STILL nice outside.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:48 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Dude, they have pop-tops now.

which part of "bottle" didn't you understand?

Cops and America's Most Wanted are on soon, so I'm going to get my weekly dose of relief that it's not me.

yeah, there's nothing like a little schadenfascism to brighten up a sunday evening
posted by pyramid termite at 4:49 PM on May 18, 2008

Don't you have teeth?
posted by jonmc at 4:50 PM on May 18, 2008

holy crap... I love this LGF quote:

So what is Metafilter, exactly? What's it's purpose? It seems like it's all over the place.

four years later i'm still not sure what it is, but i like it!
posted by localhuman at 4:56 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Don't you have teeth?

you're taking this lowdown member of the common working man envy thing a little too far, i think
posted by pyramid termite at 4:58 PM on May 18, 2008

... hassling the guy for using the editorial "we" seems a little beside the point.

No hassling here. It just seems like an odd choice for a single-author blog, IMO. Thus why I asked if it was a multiple-author blog despite all the focus on him in the little looking around that I did.
posted by CKmtl at 5:02 PM on May 18, 2008

The most irritating thing about this discussion, to me, is the fact that all the damn data seems to have disappeared from Carnegie Mellon's site into 404-land. >:( Otherwise, they're entitled to talk about us, and we're entitled to talk about them.

Basically the LGF-ers' political views can be summed up as a special pleading position for Israel and the USA. Pretty much everything they say, and the nature and strength of their political alliances and their enmities can be derived from that. Anyone who accepts the special pleading position is going to be friendly to them; anyone who doesn't, will seem deluded to them; and anyone who has political views based on the converse of special pleading (special condemnation?) for the USA and/or Israel, or who makes a habit of attacking the special pleading position, will be a mortal enemy.

This is a common human habit, and we all do it, we all have our special pleading positions. We're capable of being objective about everything else, of course; but when other people are "objective" about our own special pleading positions, we don't like that much. We interpret comments describing them in neutral terms as negative, and in negative terms as hatred. Another term for this effect, common in human beings, is: love. The LGF-ers love Israel and they love the USA. One does not react well, usually, to the pointing out of one's lover's flaws, and one tends to develop a hatred for those who do. Which is why they come across as such a "hate site". They're motivated by love for things that most of the world has a negative, or at best neutral, view of; they believe offense is poltically stronger than defense (rightly so); and therefore, they express hate a lot.

Like most political sites, LGF is actually just a circle jerk for true believers: most of what they talk about is directly political, presented with a very strong pro-Israel, pro-USA bias, and is intended to reinforce their pre-existing views, congratulate themselves for having them, and direct sneers and slaps at those who do not.

While a lot of us here have political views that are broadly classifiable as "libertarian/socialist", the majority of our topics and discussions here aren't political (except in the facile sense that all human interaction is to some extent political). FPPs here are not often negative or critical in tone, and the moderators are inclined to delete any that cross a certain (somewhat nebulous) boundary. Some of our comments are snarky remarks.

Their entire editorial tone, and most of their commentary base, is snarky remarks. Almost every FPP Charles writes, it seems, is written with a sarcastic sneer on his face; he mocks, rather than critically examines, a person, place, or practice. That's not inherently a terrible thing (I admit to enjoying nasty remarks too), but it will affect the substance and nature of discussions: it's a pissfest, with all of the piss directed outside the monkey cage. Any monkey in the cage who pisses in meets howls of protests and is quickly thrown out by the chief monkey.

It's therefore not surprising that a thread discussing LGF will become a pissfest. Piss in from outside the cage, as we are doing (and as they started off thinking Carnegie Mellon were doing), and you will provoke a whole bunch of hooting and hollering, but more importantly, you risk getting pissed on yourself. Don't expect otherwise.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:03 PM on May 18, 2008 [23 favorites]

Oh, okay then. The overseers show their colours yet again. It's pretty funny to watch you feign objectivity while pandering spinelessly to the mob.

Oh, hi, I just popped in from 2001 to say that we want our inane misplaced divisive rhetoric back. kthanxbye.
posted by googly at 5:06 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

I've collected lots of data from this thread for the academic database I'm building.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 5:09 PM on May 18, 2008

I don't know, but while reading it, I couldn't get the Viva Pinata themetune out of my head.
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:10 PM on May 18, 2008

to encourage a pissfest?

well, LGF seems to be an eager swallower.
let'em enjoy it.
posted by krautland at 5:25 PM on May 18, 2008

I've collected lots of data from this thread for the academic database I'm building.

The Institute for the Study Of Bored Nerds eagerly awaits your findings.
posted by jonmc at 5:27 PM on May 18, 2008

Brandon, I was just outside - thought I saw you there? Call me.
posted by Mister_A at 5:42 PM on May 18, 2008

...Anyone who accepts the special pleading position is going to be friendly to them; anyone who doesn't, will seem deluded to them; and anyone who has political views based on the converse of special pleading , or who makes a habit of attacking the special pleading position, will be a mortal enemy.

A martyr is a hero to himself, a menace to the faithful, and a fool to the unbeliever.
posted by lysdexic at 6:05 PM on May 18, 2008

A martyr is a hero to himself, a menace to the faithful, and a fool to the unbeliever.

and food to the worms, generally.
posted by jonmc at 6:20 PM on May 18, 2008

Call me.

You didn't get my tweet?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:27 PM on May 18, 2008

I consider myself a non-typical MeFite in a lot of ways. And I'm proud of (most of) the ways I am NOT a typical MeFite. But if I EVER represent myself as a "contrarian", a "balance" to the "dominant culture" of this site, any of you is welcome to kill me. Seriously, put me out of my/your misery. Because I can think of no more worthless existence than being an active member of a group and spending all your time fighting against the rest of the membership in a guaranteed futile effort to influence it via unrelenting opposition. The best description for that behavior is the oxymoronic "living martyr". Seriously, it's no way to live.

Now, there are a few things I don't like here (including way too much tolerance for the trollish Contrarians), but MetaFilter is still my favorite place on the Web (where I don't personally own the domain - in fact, there isn't a site of my own I like better than here).

And you want an academic database of MetaFilter? Talk to cortex, he's got us all thoroughly analyzed.

And jessamyn IS the new Orange.

Unfortunately, mathowie has made no contribution to this pissfest. I hope his thyroid isn't starting to give him trouble.
posted by wendell at 6:27 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

no, that would be his prostate
posted by pyramid termite at 6:30 PM on May 18, 2008

Because I can think of no more worthless existence than being an active member of a group and spending all your time fighting against the rest of the membership in a guaranteed futile effort to influence it via unrelenting opposition.

What are you crazy? Making people uncomfortable, puncturing smugness and complacency, and simply calling prissy moralists what they are is a neccessary thing and fun to boot.
posted by jonmc at 6:36 PM on May 18, 2008

Talk to cortex, he's got us all thoroughly analyzed.

cortex, why am I attracted to the metal, not human, cylons?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:36 PM on May 18, 2008 [4 favorites]

and food to the worms, generally.
posted by jonmc at 6:20 PM on May 18 [+] [!]

Not before being somewhat useful, either in showing us what we want or what we don't want.

Your saints would be heroes. To you and a lot of us. Fools to others. They're heroes/saints now because enough time has passed and their "fringe" contribution has been absorbed into the common wisdom, so of course they're right. It wasn't that obvious to their contemporaries. Want a recent example? Mother Theresa. I've read all the things for and against her, and she's still a hero of mine. It remains to be seen what history makes of her.

But if I EVER represent myself as a "contrarian", a "balance" to the "dominant culture" of this site, any of you is welcome to kill me.
posted by wendell at 6:27 PM on May 18 [+] [!]

I have no idea what the "typical Mefite" is and I probably fit in some ways and don't fit in others. People advertising themselves as a "tonic" or "breath of fresh air" deserves to get their argument(s) picked apart. They don't need to be advised to suck it up and shut up because you're tired of hearing it.
posted by lysdexic at 6:41 PM on May 18, 2008

Ok, Sorry about that last bit being pissy. I'm trying to put reluctant preschoolers to bed.


...and they've escaped again.
posted by lysdexic at 6:43 PM on May 18, 2008

lysdexic, I sympathize.
posted by jessamyn at 6:48 PM on May 18, 2008 [7 favorites]

Did I actually confuse the prostate and the thyroid?

Okay, you can kill me NOW.

But first ...
Making people uncomfortable, puncturing smugness and complacency, and simply calling prissy moralists what they are is a neccessary thing and fun to boot the dictionary definition of schoolyard bullying. Fixed that for you. Wish something could fix you.
posted by wendell at 6:55 PM on May 18, 2008

I know, everyone needs a hug... just some of us need it from a grizzly bear.
posted by wendell at 6:56 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Aside from actually kicking off the descenting voices, this place tends to be exactly the same as LGF, but in the exact opposite direction, politically. People who pose unpopular viewpoints are routinely ridiculed and piled upon.
posted by Dave Faris at 7:01 PM on May 18, 2008

Because I can think of no more worthless existence than being an active member of a group and spending all your time fighting against the rest of the membership in a guaranteed futile effort to influence it via unrelenting opposition.

Yeah, you're more the type to try desperately to ingratiate yourself with constant cutesy-obnoxious in-jokes. It doesn't surprise me that unpopularity scares you.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:02 PM on May 18, 2008

C'mon wendell, you can do better than that. You want affirmations go read Hazelden. If I think someone's full of shit, I'm going to say so, and everyone here (me and you included) is full of shit.
posted by jonmc at 7:03 PM on May 18, 2008

It doesn't surprise me that unpopularity scares you.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America

It dosen't scare you at all, since it's an old friend. (Word of advice: don't make it so easy)
posted by jonmc at 7:04 PM on May 18, 2008

Making people uncomfortable, puncturing smugness and complacency, and simply calling prissy moralists what they are is a neccessary thing and fun to boot.

That statement makes me sad.
posted by tkolar at 7:04 PM on May 18, 2008

:) Thanks, jessamyn.
posted by lysdexic at 7:05 PM on May 18, 2008

That statement makes me sad.

why? you think smugness and complacency and prissy moralism are good things?
posted by jonmc at 7:11 PM on May 18, 2008

Making people uncomfortable, puncturing smugness and complacency, and simply calling prissy moralists what they are is a neccessary thing and fun to boot.

That statement makes me sad.
posted by tkolar at 7:04 PM on May 18 [+] [!]


If it's done as a first step in a conversation, it can be productive. It depends on everyone involved being grown ups most of the time.
posted by lysdexic at 7:12 PM on May 18, 2008

It dosen't scare you at all, since it's an old friend.

Somehow I find the strength to struggle on, even though I'm unpopular on Metafilter. I'm an inspiration.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 7:13 PM on May 18, 2008

OH GOD WAY TOO MUCH COFFEE STILL PEEING
posted by loquacious at 7:14 PM on May 18, 2008

Somehow I find the strength to struggle on, even though I'm unpopular on Metafilter.

You sell yourself short. from what I've seen you have the ability to be unpopular everywhere.
posted by jonmc at 7:18 PM on May 18, 2008 [2 favorites]

Aside from actually kicking off the descenting voices, this place tends to be exactly the same as LGF, but in the exact opposite direction, politically.

You've either never read Metafilter or never read LGF. I can't think of a more untrue statement I've read today.

For one thing, Metafilter doesn't tend to call for anyones deaths.
posted by Justinian at 7:20 PM on May 18, 2008

Aside from actually kicking off the descenting voices, this place tends to be exactly the same as LGF, but in the exact opposite direction, politically. People who pose unpopular viewpoints are routinely ridiculed and piled upon.

I've seen bullies and morons picked on, and deservedly so. But people with honest and carefully considered viewpoints tend to get treated with respectful disagreement. But, honestly, your complaint is so non-specific as to be just a worthless whine. What dissenters are you talking about? People who think the Holocaust never happened? People who think the earth is flat?

Or is this just another sampling of the endless conservative cry of invented intolerance that I regularly hear from partisan trolls when everyone finally gets sick of them?
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:23 PM on May 18, 2008

Do you take those death threats seriously, or do you suppose they are more of just an extreme rhetorical device that is popularly used there?
posted by Dave Faris at 7:23 PM on May 18, 2008

Defending the Sacred Principles of Enlightenment with preemptive war, cooked intelligence, torture, kidnapping, and war profiteering since 2001.
posted by matteo at 7:24 PM on May 18, 2008

i have this mental image of two dogs swirling around in circles on the carpet, as low as they can get, trying to snap at each others ankles

do continue
posted by pyramid termite at 7:24 PM on May 18, 2008

*shrug*

Well, I did say 'most of the time'.
posted by lysdexic at 7:28 PM on May 18, 2008

I still can't get over the hilarious irony of an anonymous troll who protests accusations of paranoia.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:30 PM on May 18, 2008

i'm lost - just who the hell are we discussing? - the straw's flying so thick around here, i feel like i'm living in a thresher
posted by pyramid termite at 7:32 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

Do you take those death threats seriously

Absolutely, that's why I stopped posting (and reading) LGF a year or so ago.
posted by nightwood at 7:34 PM on May 18, 2008

I would just like to add that the photo in that Encyclopedia Dramatica article on LGF is the bestest thing I've seen all time all my life. There is a word for people who wear jackets with giant patches on the back that aren't Iron Maiden fans in 1985 (at least it was considered cool then): dorks. There is another word for people who wear jackets with giant patches on the back that advertise their affiliation with a website: ultra-mega-colosso-dorks. That is all.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:38 PM on May 18, 2008

ultra-mega-colosso-dorks.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Bookhouse at 7:40 PM on May 18, 2008

#275 charles_martel 5/18/08 6:33:39 pm reply quote report 0

Oh, I've had a metafilter attack before. I made one self-link, for which I apologized, I didn't know it was against the rules, and I got viciously and savagely attacked. I was a newbie then to blogs, so I used my real name. Instead of telling me I violated their rules, or even blocking my username, they "Google-bombed" me. Using my real name and saying that I was a child molester and rapist. Yes, those comments get harvested by Google and kept permanently. So beware of the vicious little children at Metafilter, they commit actual slander and libel to get revenge for minor perceived slights.
-----

#276 PARISPARAMUS 5/18/08 7:18:48 pm reply quote report 0

Wow. I used to post a lot at Metafilter until I was booted off for not towing the Lefty Line. It's a shame: circa 2001-5, Mefi was a great place. Then I guess, blogs took off and everyone who had anything smart to say got their own blog (well, not everyone: I just don't have the time).

I wonder if anyone will read this any recognize me. I still have a reputation over there. And I was booted off for zero.

HI OVER AT MEFI!
-----
posted by wfrgms at 7:43 PM on May 18, 2008 [3 favorites]

i'm lost - just who the hell are we discussing? - the straw's flying so thick around here, i feel like i'm living in a thresher

I don't think it matters anymore. I'm just trying to keep the sawdust out of my beer.

cheers!
posted by lysdexic at 7:46 PM on May 18, 2008

I remember Paris. He wasn't booted off for being a right winger, but for being disruptive. And he has been repeatedly invited to return, but won't unless he can do so using his original user name. So that's not a great example.

People were Google-bombing self-linkers when I first joined MeFi, maybe four years ago. Then it was sort of universally decided that this wasn't the way to handle things, and everyone stopped. So that little tale doesn't seem especially contemporary. Come to think of it, it's got to be two and a half years since Paris was given the boot. Surely you have more recent examples of what I understand you to believe is a defining pattern of misbehavior.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:57 PM on May 18, 2008

I once blew pot smoke in Paris' face. There were witnesses. (In person, he was an OK guy, actually)
posted by jonmc at 7:58 PM on May 18, 2008

Aside from actually kicking off the descenting voices, this place tends to be exactly the same as LGF, but in the exact opposite direction, politically.

No, Metafilter would be "exactly the same as LGF" if:

1) Every FPP was posted by Mathowie
2) Every FPP was about the same political/foreign relations topic
3) Some MeFites regularly called for the genocidal extermination of a particular ethnic group
4) Those same MeFites would be quietly censored as the site grew more popular, not because of their disgusting opinions, but because it "makes the site look bad".
5) MeFi organized forum-raids and DDoS attacks against "enemy websites"
6) Regular not-very-thinly-veiled death threats against various persons, both online and off.

And, as you point out,

7) banning anyone who even vaguely disagrees with the overall editorial tone.

Do you take those death threats seriously, or do you suppose they are more of just an extreme rhetorical device that is popularly used there?

I would argue that the nature of death makes a death-threat worthy of being taken very seriously, in whatever the context.
posted by Avenger at 8:01 PM on May 18, 2008 [5 favorites]

Wow. I used to post a lot at Metafilter until I was booted off for not towing the Lefty Line.
Ha! As smart and self-aware as ever, I see.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 8:03 PM on May 18, 2008

paris was a troll, a pretty good one, and a funny one

it always amused me to see how people just HAD to answer him
posted by pyramid termite at 8:04 PM on May 18, 2008

C'mon wendell, you can do better than that. You want affirmations go read Hazelden. If I think someone's full of shit, I'm going to say so, and everyone here (me and you included) is full of shit.

Nope, can't do any better. To paraphrase Monty Python, I came here for an argument, I didn't come here to get hit over the head. I may be guilty of frequent outbursts of self-effacing humor (because I really do suck), but I certainly can't beat the passive-aggressiveness of your "me and you included". But again, I don't come here to be among the "full of shit".
posted by wendell at 8:08 PM on May 18, 2008

It's funny that a recurring complaint from actual MeFites is that people who legitimately are trollish are disruptive are given a freer pass if they are conservatives. I don't know that that's true, but it gives a sense of how different the experience of MeFi is from the inside than from the outside.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:09 PM on May 18, 2008

I used to post a lot at Metafilter until I was booted off for not towing the Lefty Line.

No, Paris, you got booted for being an asshole. And you have to be a REALLY BIG HUGE STINKING ASSHOLE to actually get banned from here, so take that into consideration, if you please.

Now if you would care to define "too right wing for MetaFilter" as "being a asshole" - then, yes, you got banned for being too right wing and not lefty enough.

It's a shame.

No, it's not.

it always amused me to see how people just HAD to answer him

DOH.
posted by loquacious at 8:14 PM on May 18, 2008 [4 favorites]

I certainly can't beat the passive-aggressiveness of your "me and you included". But again, I don't come here to be among the "full of shit".

wendell, we go way back and we've had a lot of fun here and on other sites, but I've never met anybody anywhere who isn't full of shit at least some of the time. And nothing infuriates me more that smug know-it-alls and the self-righteous and sanctimonious and we get plenty of that here just like anywhere else, and when I see it, I'm going to burn it down if I can.
posted by jonmc at 8:26 PM on May 18, 2008

And nothing infuriates me more that smug know-it-alls and the self-righteous and sanctimonious and we get plenty of that here just like anywhere else, and when I see it, I'm going to burn it down if I can.

I dig you, Jon, but that's one of the most self-damning statements I've ever heard. After all, it is hard to imagine a position more full of self-righteousness and sanctimony than the one you just typed.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:33 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

There's nothing more self-righteous and sanctimonious than someone who believes he has a special skill for identifying the self-righteous and sanctimonious.
posted by wendell at 8:34 PM on May 18, 2008 [3 favorites]

Oh, jeez, do we have to do this again?

Yes?

Well, OK, then: carry on.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:39 PM on May 18, 2008

I dig you, Jon, but that's one of the most self-damning statements I've ever heard. After all, it is hard to imagine a position more full of self-righteousness and sanctimony than the one you just typed.

Ummm, see my earlier comment in this thread about Green Beret level I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I?

And more pertinently, I openly admit that by any standard I'm a complete shitheel. I'm a lazy, vain, self-righteous, self-pitying, drunken, misogynist, greedy slob. But that still dosen't change the fact that there's plenty of I'm-a-special-snowflake and my-every-utterance-and-gaseous-emission-is-of-the-utmost-importance kind of shit being said here, usually by our younger members and I wind up having an irresistible urge to smack the dew out of their eyes. My motives are by no means pure, but that dosen't mean I'm wrong.
posted by jonmc at 8:40 PM on May 18, 2008 [1 favorite]

When we're yelling at Paris on a different site, I kind of get the feeling mediareport was on the right track up there. If you guys want to keep arguing over who is less self-righteous or whatever, take it to the bar.
posted by cortex at 8:41 PM on May 18, 2008