Grow the hell up.

July 3, 2008 6:43 PM

An open letter.

You people all seem to think that you can sit there, misconstrue what I say, quote me out of context, and flat out fucking ignore me when I point out why you're wrong, and why what you are saying is wrong, and why what you think I am saying is not actually what I have said.

That really is par for the course around here, though. You people have decided that no matter what, you simply will not actually respond to what I actually say; you would much rather decide what I have said and respond to that instead. Does that make you feel superior? Does it? Does it make you feel all warm inside when you see me get angry because you refuse to actually respond to what I actually say? Do you derive some sort of satisfaction from it? It certainly seems that way.

Stop it. I won't put up with it. You people have been doing it for months, and you need to stop. Believe it or not, I am allowed to have opinions. Believe it or not, I have thought long and hard about the opinions I hold, and I continue to do so. You all seem to think that 'disagreement' means 'doesn't understand'. Rest assured that I do understand, I disagree. That is, despite how you all act, allowed.

What is not allowed is how you all treat me, and have been treating me for some time.

Stop misquoting me.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Stop deliberately misconstruing what I am saying. This goes triple when I have said "No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is this."

I won't be participating in this thread. Y'all can go ahead and flame as much as you like.

The best part, of course, is how many of you won't realize how this applies to you. And by 'best', I mean 'most depressing'.

posted by dirtynumbangelboy to etiquette/policy at 6:43 PM (96 comments total)

Can you please clarify? When you say "I'm a big sissy, please stick a kool-aid pickle in my mouth," do you mean cherry flavor or grape?
posted by Ivana Shtup de Naparino at 6:50 PM on July 3, 2008 [13 favorites]

Wow!

I always thought your username was dirtynumbbagelboy!
posted by Kattullus at 6:51 PM on July 3, 2008 [20 favorites]

While I can see where you're coming from, I don't think anything constructive can come from this.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 6:52 PM on July 3, 2008

Finally, I get in early on one of these.
posted by shadow vector at 6:53 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

A passive-aggressive callout thread without any context whatsoever— no posters named, no incidents cited— is pretty much the worst possible way to get your point across. I don't pay close enough attention to the site to know if you are actually being mistreated so, but it would help me decide if you could point to some threads where you think the sort of behavior occuring in your post is especially unpleasant.
posted by Electrius at 6:53 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

Wow. Someone takes themselves a little too seriously.
posted by Caduceus at 6:55 PM on July 3, 2008

While I have the opportunity, let me just reiterate that it is very important to ensure that you properly abbreviate dirtynumbangelboy's name.
posted by danb at 6:57 PM on July 3, 2008 [13 favorites]

Any context whatsoever would be helpful. Working this out over e-mail instead would probably go better.
posted by EatTheWeak at 6:57 PM on July 3, 2008

If this was one of those zany comedies about race, now would be the part where I would say, "You people? What do you mean by you people?"
posted by kbanas at 6:59 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

You people all seem to think that you can sit there

You and I have ever fought, and there are probably many more who can say that, so could you lay off the "You people" bit?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:59 PM on July 3, 2008

You obviously mean none of this.
posted by 31d1 at 7:01 PM on July 3, 2008

I'm thinking stuff like this may have prompted the open letter.
posted by marxchivist at 7:02 PM on July 3, 2008

*squeals with delight*

This is going to be so great.
posted by Ryvar at 7:04 PM on July 3, 2008 [4 favorites]

Dnab, man, I had your back on all the konolia bullshit, but you are comin waaaay outta left field on this one. Shoot them emails for goodness sake, don't just attack mefi as a whole, damn!
posted by CwgrlUp at 7:04 PM on July 3, 2008

dnab, you must know this is a bad idea; you might want to ask the mods to close it. (Normally I'd be reaching for the marshmallows, but I like you and we've already had one departure today, so I'm hoping for a ring dance and brownies instead.)
posted by languagehat at 7:04 PM on July 3, 2008

This is the good kind of paranoid rant that used to the composted on a typewriter and sent to the local newspapers.
posted by puke & cry at 7:05 PM on July 3, 2008 [6 favorites]

drop the professional martyr trip, it's really getting old and obnoxious
posted by pyramid termite at 7:06 PM on July 3, 2008

composed too.
posted by puke & cry at 7:06 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I see the context that this is likely stemming from, but in all honesty, you get what you invest into a discussion (or you continue to get what you continue to invest). At the very least, if someone has a grievance, it needs to be acknowledged whether the "righteous indignation" in return may have contributed to people's continued responses. In other words, an overly irritated response to a slight may often be as damning as the original slight, both ethically and pragmatically for the discussion. It's hard to hear what someone is "really" trying to say when it is laced with insults, regardless of the justification for those insults.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:07 PM on July 3, 2008

Y'know, I've always thought dirtynumbangelboy was a good commenter, but in the WhoTubes? thread he's really flying off the handle (e.g. "For fuck's sake, it's almost like people around here positively take delight in deliberately misconstruing what I say.")
posted by Kattullus at 7:08 PM on July 3, 2008

I'm already pissed; I didn't realize the fireworks were tonight instead of tomorrow. So, we're sitting here in our house listening to explosions. Big Fucking Deal. You have to SEE them to be impressed. Duh!

I'm sorry, what was this about again?
posted by yhbc at 7:09 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Who left today???
posted by onlyconnect at 7:09 PM on July 3, 2008

That being said, I hope you don't leave or anything. I always appreciate a good disagreement about something that gets hashed out and ends well.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:10 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I used to post shit like this on the Internet all the time when I was doing tons of coke. I also thought there was a federal agent posted on the roof of the building across from mine who was able to see through walls and take high resolution infrared photographs with his eyeballs.
posted by The Straightener at 7:11 PM on July 3, 2008 [16 favorites]

there was! - would you like copies?
posted by pyramid termite at 7:13 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

The Straightener, just because you stopped doing coke doesn't mean the federal agent isn't there. He is, and the cabal would be getting copies of his reports if there were a cabal. Which of course there isn't.
posted by languagehat at 7:13 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

*sends telepathic message to agent to terminate pyramid termite*
posted by languagehat at 7:14 PM on July 3, 2008

Nah, man, it was all cool after I lined my walls with sheet metal and got one of those lead X-ray vests to wear around the house.
posted by The Straightener at 7:15 PM on July 3, 2008

The Google thread started this? Usually it's guns, fat people, pedophilia, or whether or not Bono sucks, that get's this riled up. MetaFilter's threshold for gasket blowing get's lower every god damned day. Seriously. Take fucking pill, man.
posted by tkchrist at 7:15 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

After a screed like that, you should at least have the common courtesy to disable your account.
posted by Dave Faris at 7:16 PM on July 3, 2008 [5 favorites]

Wow, and I thought my last MeTa thread was bad...
posted by sunshinesky at 7:17 PM on July 3, 2008

Dave Faris, he's done that once already and came back pretty quickly. So I don't think he'll do it this time.
posted by the dief at 7:17 PM on July 3, 2008

*sends telepathic message to zillions of termites to eat languagehat's house*
posted by pyramid termite at 7:18 PM on July 3, 2008 [9 favorites]

Sweet, we haven't had one of these in a while. Hopefully your indignation will last a few more comments.
posted by mkultra at 7:18 PM on July 3, 2008

who else left?
posted by bonaldi at 7:18 PM on July 3, 2008

Plus, I figure, if you're going out like this, man, do it during MeFi prime time. On a Thursday night? And a holiday no less?

You're depriving so many of so much.
posted by kbanas at 7:19 PM on July 3, 2008

You people all seem to think that you can sit there, misconstrue what I say, quote me out of context, and flat out fucking ignore me when I point out why you're wrong, and why what you are saying is wrong, and why what you think I am saying is not actually what I have said.

Welcome to the Internet.

Stop it.

Seems unlikely.
posted by flabdablet at 7:20 PM on July 3, 2008

I can't see how this is going to end up the way you'd like it to, dnab.
posted by jessamyn at 7:21 PM on July 3, 2008 [5 favorites]

i won't grow up
posted by pyramid termite at 7:23 PM on July 3, 2008

Not a complete list, but maybe this will help you out.

Things to get upset about:

Cancer. War. Famine. Somebody you love dying.

Things to not get upset about:

Oprah. A Puppet telling off color jokes. Gay Marriage. Douchebags on the internet.

posted by tkchrist at 7:24 PM on July 3, 2008 [30 favorites]

"An open letter."
A closed letter?

You were all thinking it!!
posted by theiconoclast31 at 7:24 PM on July 3, 2008

dnab: I've had your back before, too, and you're someone whose contributions I've frequently enjoyed. But this isn't the first time you've essentially thrown a tantrum over being "misunderstood." It doesn't appear righteous, even to those of us who like you; it just appears childish and embarrassing. Stay or leave if you like -- I know I'll be among those sorry to see you go if you do -- but do yourself the favor and learn to stop with the public snits.
posted by scody at 7:25 PM on July 3, 2008 [8 favorites]

me and dnab have clashed rather strongly a few times, but he's also shown himself at bottom to be basically, a more-or-less okay guy. he has his faults, but so does everybody. Watching stuff like this is not fun for me.
posted by jonmc at 7:26 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I can't think of anything else besides Ray Liotta stirring meat sauce and driving around looking for helicopters.
posted by puke & cry at 7:28 PM on July 3, 2008 [7 favorites]

Christmas has come Early!

::gleefully rubs hands::
posted by Dreamghost at 7:29 PM on July 3, 2008

MARTINIS FOR EVERYBODY!
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:29 PM on July 3, 2008

*passes p&c some cocaine*
posted by jonmc at 7:30 PM on July 3, 2008

I wrote out a longer response to this addressing your utter lack of perspective, and then I realized that the the content and tone of this post warrants only three words:

crai moar n00b
posted by paradoxflow at 7:31 PM on July 3, 2008 [6 favorites]

Favorited by others: 1337

Quick (well, you get the idea), no one favorite this or any of Dnab's contributions.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 7:31 PM on July 3, 2008

Dreamghost, dnab can be a pain in the ass, but getting gleeful over somebody melting down is nasty.
posted by jonmc at 7:31 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

The last time this happened, dnab blamed me for driving him away from Metafilter, despite the fact that I hadn't exchanged words with him in months.




Evidently, I didn't do enough.
posted by Krrrlson at 7:31 PM on July 3, 2008 [10 favorites]

In my family it's considered "constructive" to begin all statements addressing another family member as follows:

"So. You know what your problem is? Your problem is..."

It took me YEARS to figure out that dealing with other people that way is the opposite of constructive. I still slip up. When I slip if my wife, who had a NON-dysfunctional family that actually loved eachother (whatever), is present she will elbow me in the ribs and whisper "Remember? Sugar not vinegar".

dnab, I think you maybe need somebody to elbow you in the ribs here.
posted by tkchrist at 7:32 PM on July 3, 2008 [4 favorites]

To be fair, though, any time I see people go off on the tired "piracy isn't theft, it's copyright infringement" diatribe, it makes me want to beat them with their copies of The Fountainhead and stab them in the eye with their Ron Paul buttons.
posted by mkultra at 7:32 PM on July 3, 2008 [11 favorites]

My advice would be to surrender but don't give yourself away.
posted by Sailormom at 7:32 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

To be fair, though, any time I see people go off on the tired "piracy isn't theft, it's copyright infringement" diatribe, it makes me want to beat them with their copies of The Fountainhead and stab them in the eye with their Ron Paul buttons.

[steals this comment]

Dangit! It's still there! I thought I stole it and hid it here!
posted by gauchodaspampas at 7:39 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Whats the Canadian Suicide Prevention Number?
posted by Dreamghost at 7:39 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

I don't know, when it's a situation where many people seem to be misunderstanding what you say, I think the onus is on you to make more of an effort to express yourself more clearly. I have this problem all the damn time, which may not be the same problem dnab is experiencing: I use shorthand for logical components of my argument about something that is complex, assuming people will understand that's what I'm doing, but frequently it just doesn't work very well. And we end up arguing definition of terms, and circling back and away from the real issue we're hashing over.

When the subject is one that stirs some acrimony -- assuming this is all about that Google copyright/theft/BENDOVERCITIZEN thread -- it becomes even more important to be clear. Being a little less dismissive of those you disagree with is probably a good idea, too, but then again, I tend to have a bad habit of doing that sometimes, too, when I get my dander up.

This thread, well, yeah, probably not helping.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:39 PM on July 3, 2008 [4 favorites]

The Google thread started this? Usually it's guns, fat people, pedophilia, or whether or not Bono sucks, that get's this riled up.

Boy, does Bono ever fucking suck.
posted by Caduceus at 7:39 PM on July 3, 2008 [11 favorites]

Rich and I were walking down the street today. A guy leans out of a pickup truck and yells directly at me, "You're a fucking douchebag!".

I stopped and stared. Rich looks at me.

"Do you know that guy?"

"Nope"

"Lucky guess, then?"

"Yep"

Swear to God.
posted by stubby phillips at 7:40 PM on July 3, 2008 [83 favorites]

mkultra, not all prescriptivists are Ron Paul/Ayn Rand fans.
posted by jacalata at 7:40 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

....and scene.
posted by Rhomboid at 7:41 PM on July 3, 2008

ZUR - EN - ARRH
posted by Dreamghost at 7:47 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Some people are happy drunks. Others are bitter and spiteful.

I didn't realize the fireworks were tonight instead of tomorrow. So, we're sitting here in our house listening to explosions.

Dude, same damn thing here! WT effin F? Who the hell puts their fireworks off on the wrong day? Anal-bleaching sons of bitches, that's who!
posted by dirigibleman at 7:48 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

*beats jacalata with Collected Works of Kant*
posted by mkultra at 7:49 PM on July 3, 2008

When the next Mefi-Podcast call in show happens, and Matt calls for favourite MeTa moments, I call dibbs on this thread.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:56 PM on July 3, 2008

"Hey, fellas, get me--I'm making angels!"
posted by mds35 at 7:58 PM on July 3, 2008

Obviously you haven't seen Wall•E yet, because if you had, you would be trying to mimic the wahHHHHAAALEee polyphonic warble instead of sending out a toxic missive the loamy goodness which is this site.

yes, yes, 'grow the hell up cowbellemoo.'

. . . "wahHHHHAAALEee"
posted by cowbellemoo at 7:58 PM on July 3, 2008 [8 favorites]

ding
posted by mds35 at 7:58 PM on July 3, 2008

DNAB, hon, you have done it to ME before.

Don't you think that misunderstanding is part and parcel of communicating by words on a screen? I think it is helpful if everyone at least tries to assume the other person has decent motives instead of having a conniption.

Having said that, it is a pain in the butt to be misunderstood over and over again, but generally complaining about it doesn't tend to get the desired results.
posted by konolia at 7:59 PM on July 3, 2008 [5 favorites]

Whats the Canadian Suicide Prevention Number?

1-800-CABNFVR
posted by pyramid termite at 8:01 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

"Hey, fellas, get me--I'm making angles!"

Angles? Why? I'm serious, why on earth would you make angles -- we've got enough of the goddamn things already! Have you seen a triangle lately? They're horrible!

Sheesh. Some people. Gawd.
posted by aramaic at 8:01 PM on July 3, 2008

To be fair, though, any time I see people go off on the tired "piracy isn't theft, it's copyright infringement" diatribe, it makes me want to beat them with their copies of The Fountainhead and stab them in the eye with their Ron Paul buttons.

I don't think very much of Objectivism or Libertarian politics. I make my living producing entertainment software - probably the most copyright infringed category of electrons with the exception of pornography. Rampant game piracy directly hurts my paycheck.

Even I can appreciate that in the real world, my possession of a gold coin directly prevents you from possessing or utilizing it. In the world of data, my possession of an MP3 does not prevent you from possessing or using it.

All material goods are ultimately zero-sum, virtual goods in a medium with (effectively) zero cost for replication operations are not.

There is a very simple, fundamental difference here. Copyright infringement might be inconvenient for my way of life, but it is inarguably a transaction which increases the resource pool of our species with zero (from the perspective of the species as a whole) cost for doing so.

(opinions expressed here are very much my own personal ones)
posted by Ryvar at 8:02 PM on July 3, 2008 [20 favorites]

I thought the Bellman did a great job of explaining the difference between theft and copyright infringement in that thread -- and he did it in a calm, noncondescending way.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:05 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

*writes to Ryvar's boss*
posted by cortex at 8:05 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

(opinions expressed here are very much my own personal ones)

Not if I stealz them.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:07 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

Oh shi-
posted by Ryvar at 8:08 PM on July 3, 2008

misconstrue what I say, quote me out of context

The onus of making a cogent argument rests upon your shoulders. Perhaps you're not up to the task.

The only thing that post was missing was:

/wrists
posted by Dark Messiah at 8:08 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Mr. Johnson lives on the corner of our street
And he laughs at our bell-bottom trousers and our bare feet
And he calls us long-haired faggots as we walk by
But we don't get mad, because we know he's uptight

(Chorus)
Hey Mr. Johnson
Won't you wear this flower in your hair
Then you'll start seeing
Love is all around you everywhere
Love is all around you everywhere

I've known Mr. Johnson since before I was born
But he still gets mad when we smoke pot on his lawn
But we never get mad, we simply walk away
He don't mean to be a drag, he's just brought up that way

(Chorus)

Love is all around you everywhere
Love is all around you everywhere...




King Missile
posted by mds35 at 8:11 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes trying to decide what to say. I'm not usually one to weigh in on things here, but for some reason tonight I will.

You're being an ass in that thread, DNAB, and it's not helping you. Yes, you disagree with some people about what "theft" constitutes. You're not convincing them, and they're not convincing you. Over the course of the thread, though, what I'm seeing is you getting increasingly vituperative*. And that just riles up the the people who like to push buttons. You're helping them get to you. Just take a breather tonight, gather yourself and try to ignore it.

(Lord knows how I pulled THAT word out of the recesses of my pitiful memory!)
posted by Stewriffic at 8:11 PM on July 3, 2008

dirtynumbangelboy is always misquoting me, especially in economics related threads, and even on other economics-related websites. You are no economist, dirtynumbangelboy , and should stop behaving like one (especially in the Globe and Mail RoB comments section). And stop misquoting me. [insert 800 words of more text, with precise and definitive supporting weblinks]

Also, dirtynumbangelboy is always saying how he actually likes the architecture of Albert Speer, and how global warming is, like, a hoax.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:12 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

I will leave Paris alone henceforth.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:12 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

dnab I love you dude, hang in there.
posted by nola at 8:15 PM on July 3, 2008

Oh God. This is how it all started for me.
posted by Paphnuty at 8:16 PM on July 3, 2008 [18 favorites]

This is how it all started for me

Sounds to me like we've got a lot to look forward to then. Keen.
posted by aramaic at 8:17 PM on July 3, 2008

Who's dirtynumbangelboy and why does he assume we have an opinion about him?
Not disingenuous, some context would be appreciated.
posted by signal at 8:20 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

There's no Wikipedia page about him.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:23 PM on July 3, 2008 [12 favorites]

Who's dirtynumbangelboy...?

He's that dude who--and I quote--"won't be participating in this thread."








We'll see, eh?
posted by mds35 at 8:29 PM on July 3, 2008

Drive boy, dog boy
Dirty numb angel boy
In the doorway boy
She was a lipstick boy
She was a beautiful boy
And tears boy
And all in your innerspace boy
You had
hand girls boy
and steel boy
You had chemicals boy
I've grown so close to you
Boy and you just groan boy
She said comeover, comeover
She smiled at you boy.
posted by Eideteker at 8:29 PM on July 3, 2008 [3 favorites]

There's no Wikipedia page about him.

He was never in Wired Magazine, Sigh...
posted by Dreamghost at 8:30 PM on July 3, 2008

Even I can appreciate that in the real world, my possession of a gold coin directly prevents you from possessing or utilizing it. In the world of data, my possession of an MP3 does not prevent you from possessing or using it.

Good points. Also, the fact that there are limitations on copyright indicates that there are differences in the legal sense between the two. For example, if copyrighted material is "mine" in the sense a car is mine, the fair use doctrine would be quite immoral. And the fact that we have limitations on the number of years a copyright can be held wouldn't make any sense at all if it was considered genuine theft of property. Since when does it become okay to steal something simply because an arbitrary period of time expires?

Of course, copyright infringement is wrong. But the necessary and sufficient conditions between copyright infringement and theft are not in a one-to-one correspondence.
posted by SpacemanStix at 8:33 PM on July 3, 2008 [4 favorites]

I don't know, when it's a situation where many people seem to be misunderstanding what you say, I think the onus is on you to make more of an effort to express yourself more clearly.

Agreed, but there's only so many ways an idea can be rephrased, or a position clarified, before you start feeling either like you and your audience don't speak the same language, or feeling that they have no interest in your attempts at clarification.

I think there's a point where the onus shifts to the audience to accept that they've misunderstood. I'm not sure where that point lies, though... even 5 honest attempts at rephrasing seems a bit high to me.
posted by CKmtl at 8:34 PM on July 3, 2008

There's no Wikipedia page about him.

yet
posted by pyramid termite at 8:34 PM on July 3, 2008

I was only vaguely aware of dirtynumbangelboy and it seems to me there are better ways of addressing his/her problems, so I'm just going to quote Jack Handy at random.

To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography and the dancers hit each other. -- Jack Handy
posted by A dead Quaker at 8:35 PM on July 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

dirtynumbangelboy,

I like you. Please don't do this.

And if I've ever done this to you, please memail me to let em know.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:35 PM on July 3, 2008 [2 favorites]

Who's dirtynumbangelboy and why does he assume we have an opinion about him?

I think I met him at a meet up long ago, although I remember that guy reminding me of Nathan Lane a bit, which his profile pic doesn't suggest, so I could be wrong.

I also remember something about him telling someone to eat the shit out of his ass or something a while ago.
posted by chococat at 8:38 PM on July 3, 2008

This is not going anyplace good and we're going to close it.
posted by jessamyn at 8:38 PM on July 3, 2008