For sale is a problem?

August 6, 2009 7:38 AM

For sale is a problem? Someone posted a link to something I had posted to Projects. (I had nothing to do with the post, though I did work on the game posted.) That it was removed so bluntly seems weird to me.

The main issue, I suppose, is that it doesn't seem to violate any of the guidelines. Micha is an active user. She enjoyed the game and thought it Mefi-worthy. It's for sale, but certainly other "for sale" items get posted without removal.

Also, I feel like it went through the sort of proposed channel for this kind of thing: I stuck it up on Projects (with mod approval) -- another member found it, liked it, and decided to promote it to the front page. That actually seems like a very healthy community-centric process.

Obviously I'm bitching a bit because I'd love the link to have remained live. The traffic is nice -- although the game certainly isn't making anyone rich. It's just a fun project. And I love feedback and conversation (which can be quite hard to get). And feedback and conversation are definitely two things Metafilter excels at -- a reason I was so excited to see the link in the first place.

posted by chasing to etiquette/policy at 7:38 AM (60 comments total)

Chasing, I am sure it is a cool game but there seemed to be nothing else on the page/site would make it worthy of being a good FPP.

I think Cortex was pretty fair.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 7:42 AM on August 6

Cortex said: This post was deleted for the following reason: I'm glad it's neat, and Projects rules, but if the only content is "buy this app" it's not really a good candidate for the front page.

It seems pretty clear to me.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 7:44 AM on August 6

For sale is a problem.
posted by caddis at 7:44 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

None of us can do anything without installing the app and then only if you have an iPhone. Metafilter is supposed to be about filtering the web.
posted by Mitheral at 7:46 AM on August 6 [2 favorites]

chasing, it was just a download link to an iPhone app. Nice project but terrible general interest post for Metafilter. You're "bitching because you'd love the link to have remained live", which means you're not being at all objective about this.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:47 AM on August 6

Okay. Fair enough. Point taken! :-)
posted by chasing at 7:47 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

yeah, it's bad enough that people post stuff that's only accessible in the US, but only accessible through an iphone makes me :(
posted by kathrineg at 7:49 AM on August 6

that said, it looks cool
posted by kathrineg at 7:49 AM on August 6

Yeah it's a cute little app, but the combination of

- only link being "for sale" thing +
- itunes/iphone only +
- pretty much about something to download, not something on the web

No huge deal certainly, but not really great for MeFi. Nothing personal to you or misha.
posted by jessamyn at 7:49 AM on August 6

Yea its about as useful as people posting a video and putting
(only available in the US) on it.
posted by wheelieman at 7:49 AM on August 6

Yeah, I'd speculate that this comes down to the iPhone not being very common, comparatively. I FPP'd a weird flash game I found a week ago, and out of 50 comments, about 45 were calling me a faggot for wasting their time with a bad game, and 5 liked it, but it was something that everyone could play, so it stayed up.
posted by Damn That Television at 7:50 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

My take would be it's just not what the front page is for. There is nothing at the link except an advertisement with a few screen shots and a brief video of an example of (I'm sorry but seriously) the most done-to-death concept in casual gaming. That's honestly not a critique of the game it's just there's not much there. There is nothing to see, nothing to read, nothing to discuss. There is nothing to do at that link but buy the app if you happen to own an iPhone.

The example you linked is no great shakes, frankly, but the obvious difference is that it is a novel, unusual application connected to a relevant current issue. I thought the pot app post very thin and would not have had any issue with it being deleted for that reason but at least there was some associated content (The news story) and some actual issue for discussion.

Breaking the guidelines is just one of the reasons for stuff getting deleted. I would expect anything that was just an ad with no novelty, associated content, or meaningful cause for discussion to get deleted.
posted by nanojath at 7:51 AM on August 6

calling me a faggot for wasting their time

Amusingly, DTT, many people hated the game and apologized to you for hating it which I thought was sort of adorable.
posted by jessamyn at 7:52 AM on August 6

Yeah, I was bemused by that too. I mean, I found it on 4chan, and preemptively warned, right in the title, that almost everyone who played it would hate it, but a lot of the comments were like "I am so sorry, but I just don't like extremely difficult games where stick figures get maimed while ambient noise music plays in the background. Nothing personal and I hope we are still on for potato skins this Wednesday"
posted by Damn That Television at 7:56 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

cortex hates sales people.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 AM on August 6

Don't feel too bad, Damn That Television. Flash game posts to the Blue have a tendency to go horribly. It's just one of those random topics that MetaFilter doesn't handle well, for some bizarre reason. Put it in a category with cats, vegetarianism and Paul McCartney.
posted by Kattullus at 8:01 AM on August 6

Cool. Thanks for the reply, jessamyn.

I probably should've finished that cup of coffee before whining about crap on Metatalk. Heh.
posted by chasing at 8:01 AM on August 6

crashing, yeah, I can totally put myself in your shoes and understand the frustration of having the rug pulled out from under you, but a post has to have some content, and a single link to purchase an app for a closed platform just doesn't cut it.

We end up killing a via-Projects post I'd say every month or two; it's not a knock on anyone involved, it's just that not everything on Projects actually makes sense as a front page post and now and then someone will get enthusiastic (awesome) and misjudge that (less awesome). And then we have to be the bad guys by not just deleting someone's post but also deleting someone else's Oh My God They Posted My Thing! enthusiasm. Again, I really, really feel you.

I don't love that Cannabis App post that you linked to, either, but I didn't see it at the time and it only racked up a couple flags total, which I chalk up to it (a) having non-app-store content and (b) kind of being news its own right with the app itself being more a prop than the purpose of the post. If the post had been nothing but a link to that app, it would have been flagged heavily and nixed pronto.
posted by cortex at 8:03 AM on August 6

Also I hate sales people.
posted by cortex at 8:04 AM on August 6

Chasing, if it makes you feel better, I'll buy your game if I ever get an iPhone
posted by Damn That Television at 8:05 AM on August 6

Data point: My only post deletion (so far) was a flash game. Cortex was The Deletor, and he deleted with a ruthless swiftness. That's just how he rolls.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:14 AM on August 6

Data point: My only post deletion was an AskMe about human heads in hotel mini-fridges. Cortex wiped that bitch from the minds and memories of the green. After reasoned pleading, he resurrected that sumbitch. HE'S LIKE A FUCKING NECROMANCER OR SOMETHING.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:18 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

also, I hear he actually stabs the delete key with a rusty dagger
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:20 AM on August 6

also, I hear he actually stabs the delete key with a rusty dagger

!!!
posted by The Devil Tesla at 8:23 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

"Rusty Dagger" is the best name ever for the red-headed owner of an old-school lesbian bar. She smokes Pall Malls, unfiltered, and has a girlfriend who looks and sounds like Betty Boop. And she mixes a mean Manhattan.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:52 AM on August 6 [8 favorites]

I felt really bad for getting crashing into this, because I just enjoyed the app, and actually there was another post about a project (game with chickens shooting lasers out of their eyes) that I, as a Mac user, couldn't play, and that one stayed up, so I didn't realize that "not everyone can play it" was a reason for deletion.

I think, honestly, being able to look back on it rationally, the objections were more about it being a paid app. And that's fair, because we don't usually do that here.

I was surprised, though, about one thing: I have the greasemonkey app that shows me the deleted threads, and this one of mine just disappeared off the screen. Is there a different process when you are deleting a thread that is about an active project? It would make sense, if there is, since obviously you don't want to draw attention away from projects.
posted by misha at 10:11 AM on August 6

No, the thing there is that all the deletion-detection scripts use the current most-recent post on the front page to decide where to start counting backward from looking for gaps in post ids.

So if a post is the most recent post and it's deleted, the scripts start counting from the previous (and now most-recent-visible) post, which means they never even look for yours.

The problem is resolved when another post comes along; if you go check now, you'll see that it's there according to which ever script you use.

If any of the script authors wanted to be ninjas about it, they could implement a limited look-ahead function that'd check the next couple of post ids for potential very-recent-deletion things like this. But I don't think anybody does right now.
posted by cortex at 10:25 AM on August 6

Why do people keep calling him "crashing?"
posted by Pax at 10:52 AM on August 6

people are not very observant about other people's usernames
posted by kathrineg at 10:53 AM on August 6

Well, it was clever of you to post this to MetaTalk. I'd missed the FPP. But now I've bought the app.
posted by Perplexity at 10:59 AM on August 6

It was a really thin post. There's a post on the Brushes app, which also costs money, but it was as part of the profile of an artist who uses the app. Then there was the NiN app that got pulled, but this was in the larger picture of Apple's control over apps. And there's an iPhone game in this post that sells for $4.99, but it's one of many links to info on the game. If there was something about the authors in this post, or the source of inspiration on the game, it might have lived.

In short: too short.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:00 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

Damn That Television: "Yeah, I'd speculate that this comes down to the iPhone not being very common, comparatively. I FPP'd a weird flash game I found a week ago, and out of 50 comments, about 45 were calling me a faggot for wasting their time with a bad game, and 5 liked it, but it was something that everyone could play, so it stayed up."

that thread, by the way, inspired one of my favorite comments ever.
posted by shmegegge at 11:16 AM on August 6

I never called you a faggot, DTT, but I did demand an apology.

*raises eyebrows, waits*
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:25 AM on August 6

chasing, at least your game is getting some attention now!

Although I agree with the reason for the deletion, if I end up getting an iPhone, I'll also purchase your game.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:31 AM on August 6

Why do people keep calling him "crashing?"

I've watched Cops, and know for a fact that chasing leads to crashing.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:33 AM on August 6 [1 favorite]

There was another post about a project (game with chickens shooting lasers out of their eyes) that I, as a Mac user, couldn't play, and that one stayed up, so I didn't realize that "not everyone can play it" was a reason for deletion.

The chicken link also had the fact it had a funny trailer that counted as content itself. Critter Defense only had Critter Defense.
posted by The Devil Tesla at 11:55 AM on August 6

Ack! Okay, I've finally stopped thinking about bagels with dirtynumbangelboy, guess I need to konw it is chasing and not crashing!
posted by misha at 12:00 PM on August 6

that thread, by the way, inspired one of my favorite comments ever.

No kidding! It's better if you read the thread starting at the beginning.

Even if it sometimes tends towards unfounded drama, I love Metatalk for pointing me towards great stuff like that that I'd otherwise miss.
posted by exogenous at 12:15 PM on August 6

kathrineg : people are not very observant about other people's usernames

I know, I keep wanting to get the sock-puppet "vortex" just so I can act like cortex's evil twin (it even has the built in pointy goatee).

Trouble is I can't ape his writing style to save my life.
posted by quin at 12:47 PM on August 6

Okay Kattallus, I'll play along...

Cats Vegetarianism Paul McCartney ...aaaaaaand...Flash games!

Wee...that was fun!
posted by slogger at 12:50 PM on August 6

Oh, and I'm totally buying Critter Defense when I get out of my next meeting.
posted by slogger at 12:56 PM on August 6

While I agree with the deletion reason and the deletion itself, I just want to say that this would not be of interest to only iPhone owners of the MeFi population, but iPod Touch users as well.

I suspect that when you add up three generations of iPhone users and two generations of iPod Touch users, that would probably make up a significant portion of the Metafilter user base.
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:21 PM on August 6

that would probably make up a significant portion of the Metafilter user base.

I sincerely doubt that, though I'd be curious to know.
posted by jessamyn at 3:27 PM on August 6

What percentage of page loads are via iTouch/iPhone?
posted by Mitheral at 6:02 PM on August 6

"What percentage of page loads are via iTouch/iPhone?"
posted by Mitheral at 12:02 PM on August 7

This would be one way to tell but it wouldn't give us a full picture, I don't think, given that an iPod Touch can't access the internet if it's not connected to a WiFi network. Plus I think in many countries outside the US (ie; those places not subject to the whims of AT&T), having a data pack is not compulsory for iPhones, so you might encounter the same problem.

"I sincerely doubt that [iPod Touch + iPhone owners would make up a significant portion of the MeFi userbase], though I'd be curious to know."
posted by jessamyn at 9:27 AM on August 7

As would I. I propose a survey, linked to in the sidebar. FOR SCIENCE!
posted by Effigy2000 at 6:22 PM on August 6

What percentage of page loads are via iTouch/iPhone?

Just for a data point: in the last 30 days 1.53% of visits came from devices running the iPhone OS, and 0.37% of visits came from devices running the iPod OS.
posted by pb at 7:28 PM on August 6

pb - I'd be curious to see stats for all mobile traffic. Pretty please?
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 7:56 PM on August 6

Pretty please?

Sure. But I'm not sure which are mobile and which aren't, so here's the full breakdown by OS:

Windows 73.41%
Macintosh 20.55%
Linux 3.42%
iPhone 1.53%
iPod 0.37%
Android 0.13%
Danger Hiptop 0.08%
Playstation 3 0.04%
SymbianOS 0.04%
PalmOS 0.03%
Playstation Portable 0.02%
Nintendo Wii 0.01%
SunOS 0.01%
FreeBSD 0.01%
BlackBerry > 0.00%
UNIX > 0.00%
OpenBSD > 0.00%
Samsung > 0.00%
Sony > 0.00%
NetBSD > 0.00%
OS/2 > 0.00%
AIX > 0.00%
Nokia > 0.00%
HPUX > 0.00%
IRIX > 0.00%
LG > 0.00%
MOT > 0.00%
NTT DoCoMo > 0.00%
Solaris > 0.00%

The whole > 0.00% thing as I understand it is Google Analytics' way of saying: not zero, but not very many.
posted by pb at 8:19 PM on August 6

Nokia > 0.00%

Followup question: how many of those folks were sidetalkin'?
posted by cortex at 8:23 PM on August 6

PS3 beats Wii? That's got to be a first.
posted by Effigy2000 at 8:59 PM on August 6

Does Google Analytics let you report his by user agent? It would be easier to pinpoint mobile browsers that way.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:07 PM on August 6

Wait, why are we doing this again?
posted by pb at 10:46 PM on August 6

Duh, because we can?
posted by dg at 4:57 AM on August 7

Damn, if my Dreamcast hadn't died a quiet, dignified death, I'd totally hook it back up and hit the blue just to see it show up on the > 0.00% list.
posted by Spatch at 6:02 AM on August 7

To those about to browse MeFi on the Wii: I salute you.
posted by shmegegge at 7:47 AM on August 7

Okay, I've finally stopped thinking about bagels with dirtynumbangelboy...

I always thought he was wearing bangles. Or singing the Bangles.
posted by Pax at 7:54 AM on August 7

" But I'm not sure which are mobile and which aren't, so here's the full breakdown by OS"

Windows further subdivides into a version that runs on PC hardware, and a version that runs on mobile hardware, so there's an unknown quantity of mobile devices. It may well be enough to beat that near-2% that Mobile OSX devices (iPhone and iPod) are showing, but even if so, 2% is a huge proportion of requests served to a mobile device.

Also, I have a Dreamcast Linux boot CD somewhere around here (and the requisite mouse, keyboard, maraca, and fishing controllers for browsing the web), but lost my NFS export that had the big userland I built for it. I'd be willing to fire it up just to get us on the board if someone's got a browser binary or a more full-featured CD.
posted by majick at 1:10 PM on August 7

OS/2? What the hell; are ATMs offering MetaFilter access now?
posted by Mitheral at 7:57 AM on August 8

OS/2? What the hell; are ATMs offering MetaFilter access now?

I try to read MeFi via lynx ever now and then just so pb and mathowie don't get lazy.
posted by jessamyn at 8:18 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Linux 3.42%

So I should limit myself to "My Little Pony" sized Linux-related feature requests?
posted by double block and bleed at 12:15 AM on August 9