Puke

April 16, 2010 4:41 PM

This post isn't very good, for a couple of reasons.

The subject matter is introduced with a list of previous unrelated incidents which frame the incident as a part of a pattern of behavior, instead of a strange isolated incident.

This inclusion heavily implies support for the overblown and annoying stereotype of the people of Philadelphia as violent, drunk, crazy people.

For example, the title, "City of Brotherly UUUHHHHGGGGG" suggests the city itself had done the vomiting, perhaps via a communal vomit collection in the Liberty Bell, not an individual.

This targeting of the city itself continues in some comments:


Philly is one of a kind... good times

As a Washingtonian, I approve this post. Philly fans are assholes.

Phillies fans are a bunch of crybabies.

Since the topic has come up, I will say that in my experience in attending many Nationals home games, Phillies fans have been the most offensive and boorish by a large margin. Most of them are fine, but the number of assholes among Philly supporters is large.

I think an excellent and intriguing post with a riveting discussion could be made on the unique topic of intentional use of vomit as a weapon, but this is not it.

In addition, the post is factually incorrect in stating the victims were singled out for being fans of the opposing team, which is not mentioned anywhere in the linked article. In fact, the victims were also Phillies fans who were targeted for pointing out to security the boorish behavior of some of the people around them.

posted by furiousxgeorge to Etiquette/Policy at 4:41 PM (204 comments total)

Too bad Philly isn't in Texas, we could do this once a year and get it over with.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 4:48 PM on April 16, 2010 [9 favorites]

I had been keeping an eye on it for a while. Wasn't my favorite thread, btu wasn't flagged enough to be an auto-delete situation. I asked the fellas what they thought about it and haven't heard back yet [this was a little bit ago] so I'll see if they show up and what they say. I don't have much backstory knowledge of Philly-bashing generally so didn't know if this was a thing or just something made up to make up the post that was mostly about someone barfing.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:48 PM on April 16, 2010

Just to be clear here...you didn't like it, right?

(I want to make sure that I interpreted "Fuck you. This post blows. BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" correctly)
posted by iamkimiam at 4:49 PM on April 16, 2010 [8 favorites]

I dislike the post also, because it is about sports.
posted by killdevil at 4:49 PM on April 16, 2010 [17 favorites]

I think an excellent and intriguing post with a riveting discussion could be made on the unique topic of intentional use of vomit as a weapon, but this is not it.

You think THAT would have been a better post?!
posted by shmegegge at 4:51 PM on April 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

Fuck you. This post blows. BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Hehe, that was satirical, as indicated by the use of "Seriously though" to begin the next sentence.

But yeah it isn't a very good post.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:53 PM on April 16, 2010

Never trust an octopus. They're all thieves.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 4:55 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

*grabs joint and a jar of Nutella*
posted by gman at 4:57 PM on April 16, 2010 [8 favorites]

I'm pretty much where jessamyn is on this: not a great thread but we didn't see some kind of stark pile of flags on it suggesting that it Really Needed To Go. I've been out and about today so I wasn't really able to dig into it earlier, and I feel kinda shruggo about it, basically. I can understand finding it extra annoying if you're from Philly; I've felt the same way about some of the Blah Blah Portland Hipsters stuff.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:57 PM on April 16, 2010

Seriously, I think it would have been fine as a news of the weird/gross framing, but instead right off the bat it was a "Hurf, Durf, Philly Sports-fans" discussion. Crappy, intentionally inflammatory framing, and Damn That Television is just trying to pick a fight in the comments.
posted by piratebowling at 4:58 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

please enjoy this comedian explaining why philadelphia is so great.
posted by shmegegge at 4:59 PM on April 16, 2010 [6 favorites]

Damn That Television is just trying to pick a fight in the comments.

My read was that furiousxgeorge was trying to start a fight in the comments, actually. I know, it's really hard to flag and then move on and then come back and be like "why is this shit still here??" but moving on is really about moving on. Again, both cortex and I are like "not a great post, but deleteworthy?" and then we shrugged and moved on and said "What can you do, it's Friday afternoon in America"
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:03 PM on April 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

seriously, shmegegge?
posted by piratebowling at 5:03 PM on April 16, 2010

I considered posting the article when I saw it this morning, but in a very different context. I was going to use it not as a flashpoint from which to lay criticism and judgment at an entire city, but instead as the starting point of a discussion about societal norms and legal pitfalls associated with certain types of behaviors such as deliberate vomiting, bleeding on, spitting on and deliberate unsafe sex for the purpose of disease transmission. Not, that is, to say all of those mentioned things are the same, but to have a discussion about science, ethics and law on those issues. Not to say it was going to be a genius post (and I just posted anyway so I probably couldn't have done it), but it's better than what boils down for me to a condemnation of not just poor behavior by some, but an entire city. I don't like a precedent of accepting posts essentially calling the residents of different countries or cities or regions as acceptable.
posted by bunnycup at 5:04 PM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]

>:)
posted by Damn That Television at 5:04 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

I would have thought Metafilter would be okay with vomiting on sports fans.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:05 PM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]

>:)

Could you please try to act like you're not just being a yutz about this?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:06 PM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]

I would have thought Metafilter would be okay with vomiting on sports fans.

no, those are iPad fans.
posted by gman at 5:07 PM on April 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

seriously, shmegegge?

no, not seriously. it's a joke.

but I gotta say, not a lot of sympathy for this callout, here. The post basically says "philly fans have a bad reputation. here are some reasons why. the latest nonsense is as follows." it's news of the weird, and it focuses on a bad reputation, but callout-worthy? not even remotely. philly sports fans have a bad reputation, which (like most bad reputations) is overblown, but earned. someone mentioned it. get over it.
posted by shmegegge at 5:07 PM on April 16, 2010 [6 favorites]

My read was that furiousxgeorge was trying to start a fight in the comments, actually.

I don't know, I think the phrase "adding to this glorious legacy" was really problematic, particularly because the post criticizes the behavior of "sports fans in Philadelphia" and not just those involved with this story. I think the post was written to deliberately get under skin, and no one should be surprised that it succeeded.
posted by bunnycup at 5:07 PM on April 16, 2010

Let's try an interesting thought experiment:

Read the post's comments without your contributions, furiousxgeorge. And while we're at it, without fixedgear's. Then let's eliminate all the comments that solely responded to yours. That pretty much eliminates most if not all of the anger about the post's framing and any potential threadshitting.

What's left?

A post with not that many comments, where a few people complained about the language used in one of the articles, a few snarky jokes were made, and a few people talked about how heinous that fan's actions were. Oh, and there were a few bits of followup.

Perhaps this is wishful thinking on my part, but hypothetically speaking, if you hadn't attacked the post from the moment it was posted and continued to do so throughout the thread, it probably wouldn't have gotten much attention. Let's face it, it wasn't much of a story, and it wasn't all that interesting a scandal. But instead, you (and I do understand this, believe me,) felt the urge to defend the honor of Philadelphia and its fans.

You spent what seems like an awful lot of time in there, lobbying for the post's removal. If you had simply flagged it and moved on, what would have happened? I doubt it would have 90 comments right now.

Just something to think about.
posted by zarq at 5:08 PM on April 16, 2010 [17 favorites]

I think the post was written to deliberately get under skin

Not saying this isn't possibly true and if that's the case that's totally uncool DtT. But I am sort of looking at it through the zarq lens and even an annoying post would have faded out unremarkably without a few people in the thread going GRAR about it.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:12 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm trying to figure out where all the the "Philly bashing" that "is getting old and tired" is, because I don't think I've been seeing any on the blue.

But this wasn't a very good post. I like bunnycup's framing better.
posted by rtha at 5:17 PM on April 16, 2010

Yeah, from now on, whenever I'm even remotely annoyed by something, I'm gonna rush into MeTa and complain about it. Jesus, MeTa seems to have gone bonkers these last few days.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:20 PM on April 16, 2010

Thank you for saying that rtha. I lurked for a long time, have gotten to the point where I comment frequently, but remain shy about FPPs. The couple I've done have gone well, but I am always nervous. So I appreciate the complement to my plans for a post.
posted by bunnycup at 5:22 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

Well at least you took it to Meta and didn't shit in the thread.

Oh look, you did.
posted by Artw at 5:24 PM on April 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

I have to say I'm with jessamyn and zarq on this one. I've seen posts/comments here that really upset me (that Ask Me about the teacher who lied to his boss about having cancer leaps to mind) so I flagged and walked away. Sure, I was really disturbed and I'm still angry about it on some level, but hey it's a whole community with a system in place to deal with these issues. That's why we have flags and mods (and martinis, I might add-oh how I lerve you, Friday).
posted by miss-lapin at 5:25 PM on April 16, 2010

Still stand by my comment in the thread where I say: it's a single link news of the weird padded by links to stories which have been repeatedly dredged up here. The point was to piss people off and it succeeded. My reaction to fat bastard from Cherry Hill pukes on kid at Phil's game link would have been "meh" and my reaction to this poor FPP was in response to the crappy framing.
posted by fixedgear at 5:32 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

But I am sort of looking at it through the zarq lens and even an annoying post would have faded out unremarkably without a few people in the thread going GRAR about it.

Yeah, but it would have stood as a crappy stereotype filled post with a major factual error. An error I assume resulted from believing the media myth that Philly is particularly viscous to opposing fans, and not actually reading the story that was linked or any other on the topic. If you are going to let it stand at least edit it to correct that.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:36 PM on April 16, 2010

Okay .. but let's talk about cheesesteak. Really, Philly can proudly proclaim itself the capital of such.

But, who reigns supreme: Geno's or Pat's?
posted by ericb at 5:38 PM on April 16, 2010

Still stand by my comment in the thread where I say: it's a single link news of the weird padded by links to stories which have been repeatedly dredged up here.

Yeah, I mean it's "News of the Weird" single-link to a story that can barely be described as written in English. I would have hoped it would be deleted for that alone.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:40 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

The only time I've been propositioned for paid sex in a rude way, was by Phillies fans. I was just sitting at a bar!

is it possible to be propositioned for paid sex in a pleasant way?
posted by gman at 5:41 PM on April 16, 2010

*Sits down next to gman*
posted by Mister_A at 5:42 PM on April 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

ericb, we cannot take you seriously when you talk about cheesesteaks. The real Philadelphia sandwich is roast pork, broccoli Rabelais and sharp provolone. I might allow long hots. Carry on.
posted by fixedgear at 5:42 PM on April 16, 2010

Damn spellchecker. Rabe.
posted by fixedgear at 5:43 PM on April 16, 2010

myth that Philly is particularly viscous to opposing fans

Uhh, yeah, what I mean is that the puke in Philly is especially glutinous and sticky.

/viscious.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:44 PM on April 16, 2010

Furiousxgeorge does have a good point though–the post indicates that the puking was perpetrated on opposing fans and that is pretty clearly not the case.
posted by Mister_A at 5:45 PM on April 16, 2010 [4 favorites]

*Sits down next to gman*

dude, one hand for the keyboard, one for the jar.
posted by gman at 5:45 PM on April 16, 2010

I'll jus' grab dis joint den chief.
posted by Mister_A at 5:47 PM on April 16, 2010

LOLPHILLY AM I RITE
posted by GuyZero at 5:54 PM on April 16, 2010

Uhh, yeah, what I mean is that the puke in Philly is especially glutinous and sticky.

I never liked the taste of that cream cheese.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:59 PM on April 16, 2010

hey, perhaps we can have a 50 day rotation where we post stories of crappy things from each consecutive state, make overgeneralizations, get all mad about it, get defensive about it and just generally offend everyone in the US over a ~2 month period. After that we can start picking countries and break them down into provinces (or whatnot) if they're big enough... I say we aim for total world offensiveness by the end of 2011, just in time for the end of the world! wheeeee.
posted by edgeways at 5:59 PM on April 16, 2010

Won't work. No one knows NM's part of the US. Also, after "Espanola's the heroin capital of the US," where do you go from there?
posted by PMdixon at 6:12 PM on April 16, 2010

I was at Popeye's today. The Mardi Gras cheesecake is pretty good, as fastfood confectionery goes.
posted by jonmc at 6:13 PM on April 16, 2010

Something something Sufjan Stevens
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:14 PM on April 16, 2010

Mardi Gras cheesecake

I don't know whether to be disgusted or enticed. Or maybe both. Disticed. Or engusted.
posted by PMdixon at 6:17 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

Dude, it's not like it was flashing it's boobs for beads or something.
posted by jonmc at 6:21 PM on April 16, 2010

Sufjan Stevens

Now I'm offended.
posted by Mister_A at 6:22 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

The disgust comes from the following:
1) We're not only past Mardi Gras season, we're past goddam Easter. Lent is over, people. Jesus is up and moving again.
2) Mardi Gras = King Cake. The only way my mind can connect King Cake and cheesecake is just to slather on the icing'n sugar and maybe stick a pink Jesus in there. The thought might be enough to give me the diabeetus.
3) Non-chicken food at Popeyes. 'nough said.
posted by PMdixon at 6:26 PM on April 16, 2010

It's a funny story, good framing, great post. A minor factual error was corrected in-thread. Since when do we take everything so seriously?

OH MY GOD THESE SCANS OF CATS ARE NOT ACTUALLY COMPUTERIZED AXIAL TOMOGRAPHY SCANS *CLUTCHES PEARLS* *ACTUALLY DIES, RIGHT THERE, OF DISAPPOINTMENT/OUTRAGE*
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:29 PM on April 16, 2010 [10 favorites]

Damn, dude, here I was all like "Whoa, broccoli Rabelais? That has to be the most decadent fucking food ever." Somebody needs to come up with a broccoli dish worthy of the legendary hedonists of the Abbey of Thélème pretty damn quick now or I'm gonna be mighty disappointed.

What? I like broccoli.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:31 PM on April 16, 2010 [13 favorites]

Is this the thread where we complain about shit? I don't have any beer left.
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:36 PM on April 16, 2010

OH MY GOD THESE SCANS OF CATS ARE NOT ACTUALLY COMPUTERIZED AXIAL TOMOGRAPHY SCANS *CLUTCHES PEARLS* *ACTUALLY DIES, RIGHT THERE, OF DISAPPOINTMENT/OUTRAGE*

You have been here just a month longer than me and amassed 17 metas to my 2, so spare me the lecture on being easily offended.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:36 PM on April 16, 2010 [5 favorites]

This targeting of the city itself continues in some comments:

Phillies fans are a bunch of crybabies.

furiousxgeorge, I was directing this comment toward you. I guess I should have made that clearer, crybaby.
posted by stavrogin at 6:36 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

and holy shit is this askme forreal?
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:37 PM on April 16, 2010

sorry, I know it's for real, it's just that the timing is exquisite.
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:37 PM on April 16, 2010

In addition, the post is factually incorrect," furiousxgeorge said with a look of hurt splashed across his face.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:39 PM on April 16, 2010

furiousxgeorge, I was directing this comment toward you. I guess I should have made that clearer, crybaby.

Phillies fans are a bunch of crybabies.

Phillies fans

Yes, this was obviously a terrible example of the stereotyping based on individuals I was discussing.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:39 PM on April 16, 2010

Phillies fans are clean and articulate people. Each. and. every. one.
posted by stavrogin at 6:41 PM on April 16, 2010

Is this something I would have to go to a brodeo to understand?
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 6:43 PM on April 16, 2010

I don't have any beer left.

Stop on over.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 6:46 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think it's a bad post. I did flag it and I did move on, but since it's still there and being defended I gotta say my piece here in the appropriate place. The post is framed in an inflammatory way and the subject matter is not "best of the web" enough to overcome that, in my opinion. zarq points out that if you remove all of the comments by people who attacked the post (and the responses), there would be very little left. I agree, but that's also why it is a bad post. Hasn't there been precedent for removing posts that cause mostly GRAR and not much else, when the main link isn't particularly Metafilter-worthy in the first place? I think the only way the FPP works is in the framing (i.e. all the other links), and this framing is inflammatory, mean-spirited, and inaccurate.

I also think it is completely relevant and called-for if people want to defend Philadelphia sports fans in the thread, but it's hard to do without coming across as if you're attacking the existence of the post itself. And that's because the post is framed in a very limited way. In addition to the posts by people like drjimmy and furiousgeorge, there are also a bunch of comments by people highlighting all of the bad things sports fans in other cities have done, presumably as a way to show this is not unique to Philly sports fans.

I think posts stereotyping people based on where they are located are a big problem. I think it's a bad post which spawned a bad discussion.
posted by Danila at 6:48 PM on April 16, 2010 [5 favorites]

Also, yeah, all that stuff about crybabies, how is that not an attack? A Philadelphian can't say anything in defense of themselves in the thread, even though the post is an attack against them. "Philly fans are this" and "Philly fans are that" isn't going to do anything but make people defensive because it's an attack. I just question the value of that post. Okay, whew.
posted by Danila at 6:51 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

"You have been here just a month longer than me and amassed 17 metas to my 2, so spare me the lecture on being easily offended."

So is this like a meta-dick-swinging contest, but the winner is whomever's meta-dick is smallest?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 6:55 PM on April 16, 2010

So is this like a meta-dick-swinging contest, but the winner is whomever's meta-dick is smallest?

Yes, and you just made the answer real easy.
posted by bunnycup at 6:57 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

> I like broccoli.

It's not hedonistic but it's so good that I've made six pounds of it in the last three days: Garlicky Sesame-Cured Broccoli Salad.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:58 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

(The above said with nonsensical humor intended. Because I am poor at that and it's probably not clear.)
posted by bunnycup at 6:58 PM on April 16, 2010

I'm always like "Whutt?" when people post these MeTas complaining about their locality being dissed. Then I remember that I'm from Texas/the deep south and have seen the universe at-large stereotyping my home state and my region of the US for my entire life, and have a good sense of humor about it, because it really doesn't effect my life. Except when I get to surprise people by not being an ignorant redneck even though I have an accent, which is kinda fun.
It seems better to save the moral outrage for actual discrimination.
posted by ishotjr at 6:58 PM on April 16, 2010 [5 favorites]

and holy shit is this askme for real?

Coincidence? I think not.
posted by fixedgear at 7:02 PM on April 16, 2010

Uhh, yeah, what I mean is that the puke in Philly is especially glutinous and sticky.

Sounds like a cue for a song.

The puke in Philly,
Is glutinous and sticky,
*clap*, *clap*, *clap*, *clap*,
Deep in the heart of Pennsylvania...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:09 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

As for the Pat's vs. Geno's debate -- my favorite place was a neighborhood joint called Gero's near Tyson and Bustleton. Can't imagine it's still there.

Ah, but it is still these. It's Gearo's, though.
posted by fixedgear at 7:11 PM on April 16, 2010

You have been here just a month longer than me and amassed 17 metas to my 2, so spare me the lecture on being easily offended.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:36 PM on April 16

I think that racism, misogyny, and homophobia are more important MeTa topics than anti-Philly-sports-fan prejudice I guess :(
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:16 PM on April 16, 2010 [8 favorites]

Does that mean Optimus Chyme wins the thread? Har har.
posted by bunnycup at 7:19 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

In addition, the post is factually incorrect," furiousxgeorge said with a look of hurt splashed across his face.

Sweet. I haven't been derided for the high value I place on facts since I gave up trying to comment on right wing blogs.


I think that racism, misogyny, and homophobia are more important MeTa topics than anti-Philly-sports-fan prejudice I guess :(

Sure are, but if you are so easily offended by them that you need to come to MeTa that often maybe it is best you take a step back when other people have concerns.


Again, though, the problem with the puke thread isn't that the stereotyping is offensive, it isn't. The problem is that it is inaccurate, old, and tired which makes it a crap post. Especially in combination with the description of the actual event being factually wrong because the poster was more concerned with getting it on the blue than actually doing some research on the story.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:35 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

we didn't see some kind of stark pile of flags on it...

Is that you measure flags now? Stark piles? Is that bigger or smaller than a shit pile?
posted by marxchivist at 7:36 PM on April 16, 2010

Ha ha broccoli Rabelais
posted by chinston at 7:44 PM on April 16, 2010

Troll post is troll post!

As for the Pat's vs. Geno's debate -- my favorite place was a neighborhood joint called Gero's near Tyson and Bustleton. Can't imagine it's still there.

That's like three blocks from my office. Noice, as they say in the NE.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:53 PM on April 16, 2010

I just got back from the Phillies game. I sat next to a Marlins fan but I decided not to vomit on him. I would have if we had lost, though.
posted by iconomy at 8:07 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

Sure are, but if you are so easily offended by them that you need to come to MeTa that often maybe it is best you take a step back when other people have concerns.

... so OC getting upset about racism and homophobia on the site is a problem, but getting upset because someone pointed out that philly sports fans have a bad reputation is right on?
posted by shmegegge at 8:15 PM on April 16, 2010

... so OC getting upset about racism and homophobia on the site is a problem, but getting upset because someone pointed out that philly sports fans have a bad reputation is right on?

Nope, that would not be what I said.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:16 PM on April 16, 2010

Broccoli Rabelais would have to involve a cream sauce made with lobster broth and champagne reduction poured over broccoli battered in egret yolk and fried in whippet fat, something something mascarpone rolled in pork belly something saffron and tears of nubian slaves something something something only dined on in a certain cave in Loire whose entrance lies on the north side of an abandoned convent during the new moon to hide from the sight of God.
posted by ardgedee at 8:20 PM on April 16, 2010 [13 favorites]

We certainly seem to be trying them all, Burhanistan.
posted by zarq at 8:43 PM on April 16, 2010

there's room enough on the site for every kind of outrage

I was actually just trying to map the levels of outrage that have cropped up so far in this thread, and it's pretty impressive, even for MetaTalk: we've had outrage, outrage over the outrage, outrage over the outrage over the outrage, and even outrage over the outrage over the outrage over the outrage. This is, of course, outrageous. Your move.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:43 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

I am so going to start a band called The Blah Blah Portland Hipsters.

Are there any other kind? ZING!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:44 PM on April 16, 2010

I've felt the same way about some of the Blah Blah Portland Hipsters stuff.

Portland, Maine hipsters? Last thing I heard, there seemed to be some sort of race-to-the-bottom to see who could be the grossest crust punk out there, with some pretty shocking levels of self-neglect involving drinking to the point of delerium tremens and gigs doing nude housecleaning.

I don't go to Portland much anymore.
posted by dunkadunc at 8:50 PM on April 16, 2010

there seemed to be some sort of race-to-the-bottom to see who could be the grossest crust punk out there, with some pretty shocking levels of self-neglect involving drinking to the point of delerium tremens and gigs doing nude housecleaning

*tears house apart looking for hidden cameras*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:53 PM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]

Oh, wait... I'm not in Portland.

*goes back to drinking*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:53 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

Portland, Maine hipsters?

No no, the metastereotype for Maine is inbred redneck.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:55 PM on April 16, 2010

If having naked crust punks do anything to your house causes the house to get cleaner, you've got some serious housekeeping issues.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:57 PM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]

Here's the thing about Pat's v. Geno's.

Most people from the greater Philadelphia area don't particularly give a shit about Pat's or Geno's, and if they go there, they often think both places aren't so great. You can get a cheesesteak at hundreds and hundreds of places in the area. Some are better than others.

Unless you are a tourist or you grew up a little south of Catherine St. in the area, Pat's and Geno's are really only relevant as the TV version of what cheesesteaks are.

Honestly, although there are many forms of cheesesteak, most people in the greater Philly area consider American to be the default cheese, Amoroso's to be the default (or at least best) rolls, and don't know or give a shit about secret codes for ordering ("whiz wit", etc...).

You go to the local place you like best and ask, for example, for a "cheesesteak with fried onions" or whatever.
posted by Father Tiresias at 8:58 PM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]

most people in the greater Philly area consider American to be the default cheese

American "cheese" is nothing more than the discarded plastic wrapper that was used to hold rancid colby as it was transported to the city compost. It is the default "cheese" for those whose tastebuds are still cooking in the brine of residual hangover vomit. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:08 PM on April 16, 2010 [3 favorites]

I'm a vegetarian now so no more cheesesteaks, but Pat's and Dalessandro's were my favorites.

I loved some of the vegan stuff at Gianna's Grille even before I turned veggie, anyone know somewhere that serves similar stuff around Doylestown?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:14 PM on April 16, 2010

Have you tried Alessio in town? Also, I haven't been yet but want to, Vine & Fig Tree has some very delish looking veg sandwiches. It's kind of next to Siren, across from the County. I've also been wanting to step into Andre's for a sandwich and glass of wine.

Maybe we should have lunch some day...
posted by bunnycup at 9:23 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

Seriously, though (well, I do seriously detest American "cheese," but I suppose it might taste to someone else like banana pudding or pickled eggs taste to me) - this brings to mind a phenomenon that I find fascinating: local pride of ownership for "authentic" versions of dishes which, in my opinion, are actually better done elsewhere. See also New York and pizza, etc. *runs for cover*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:23 PM on April 16, 2010

You'll not hear me disagree, IRFH. But discarded plastic wrappers formerly used to hold rancid colby have their place. And although it may be a limited place, that place is still pretty sweet.
posted by Father Tiresias at 9:26 PM on April 16, 2010

Indeed!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:28 PM on April 16, 2010

Well, the authenticity has a value all its own. Sometimes the context of an experience can add up to more than the sensory pleasure alone.

But yeah, you can get fried thinly cut steak with cheese on a roll anywhere and it is pretty much the same thing.


Have you tried Alessio in town? Also, I haven't been yet but want to, Vine & Fig Tree has some very delish looking veg sandwiches. It's kind of next to Siren, across from the County. I've also been wanting to step into Andre's for a sandwich and glass of wine.

Maybe we should have lunch some day...

I'm up for it, they all sound great. I'm still looking for a good fake cheesesteak place though.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:30 PM on April 16, 2010

Residual hangover vomit should only be used on the fans of the visiting team.
posted by Sailormom at 9:31 PM on April 16, 2010

Personally, I don't get the "my city's/state's honor has been besmirched! How dare you sir!" rage. Any post about Texas turns unreadable due to high dudgeon concentrations. Now Philly? Dude, your citizens booed Santa Claus! That's should be a badge of honor!

On the other hand, take, say, Michigan. It's where I'm from, and we've got more than our share of stupidity. The recent thread about the right wing pyscho christian militia? I don't recall a single Michigander (that's right) getting angry about their state being mocked. In fact, I think most of us were just kind of embarrassed about the whole thing. Hell, even Chicago (adopted home) politics posts aren't nearly this angry. I don't think the 50 State Grar tour would really be all that profound. I imagine most states/mefites in those states just wouldn't care. Relax a bit. Focus on the positives of your city, and FIAMO.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:43 PM on April 16, 2010 [5 favorites]

I don't know why everyone's so pissy in that thread. Don't they know it's always sunny in Piladelphia?
posted by Night_owl at 9:46 PM on April 16, 2010

I've heard that the only place to get a good philly cheesesteak nowadays is in New Jersey.
posted by double block and bleed at 9:49 PM on April 16, 2010

Seven are arrested in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group Hutaree, an extremist antigovernment group whose members are "preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive", after threats to Islamic organisations.

Sports fans in Philadelphia have a bad reputation. They booed when their long-time star quarterback Donovan McNabb was drafted. (Something he took personally for years.) They booed and threw snow balls at Santa Claus. They booed when Michael Irvin lay motionless on the field with a neck injury that would end his career. They fought so much at football games that, for a time, their stadium had its own criminal court. Adding to this glorious legacy, at last night's Phillies game, a man allegedly stuck his own fingers down his throat and intentionally projectile vomited on a father and his two daughters who were cheering for the Washington Nationals.

I think the difference might be found in the way individuals are blamed for actions in Michigan, but the collective generic group of "Sports fans in Philadelphia" takes the blame for the "glorious legacy."
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:51 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

On the other hand, take, say, Michigan...

Please.

*ba-dum bump*

I'm from Washington State. Apparently, we just had a big animal-sex farm bust go down (Honest, officer, I thought Animal-sex Farm was just a Little Theater production of the lesser known sequel to the George Orwell classic!). No, not the same town where the guy was killed dallying with a stallion a few years back, but not too far away. We're also famous for our serial killers and endless rainy skies. Turn ons include caffeine and driving slow in the fast lane LIKE FUCKING IDIOTS! So obviously, every other state pales by comparison. Well, not literally. We're actually pretty pale around here, what with the total lack of sunshine. Kind of like tweaker cave newts. Or tweaker cave newt fuckers, at any rate. But the rest of you suck, is what I'm saying. Because we rule. Down here in the dark, dark nether regions of Hell, we totally, completely rule.

And yes - I did just take my medication. Why do you ask?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:09 PM on April 16, 2010 [14 favorites]

It's Raining Florence Henderson, for some reason I will never be able to explain, in some way and somehow that was the most perfect thing that could have been said.
posted by bunnycup at 10:14 PM on April 16, 2010

115 comments in a thread about intentional puking in Philly, and only one comment about It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? I am dissapoint metatalk.
posted by sanka at 10:24 PM on April 16, 2010

Man, just wait 'til you hear what people from Detroit have to put up with!
posted by klangklangston at 10:25 PM on April 16, 2010

"Philly fans are this" and "Philly fans are that" isn't going to do anything but make people defensive because it's an attack.

I think it's well understood by all that the perpetrators were just a couple of guys who were up to no good. I have no doubt that the vast majority of Philatelists enjoy more bucolic and gentle pass times like chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool and all shooting some b-ball outside of the school .

Also, that thread was so funny that I almost puked up my Honey Bunches of Oats, without digital insertion.

I've seen posts/comments here that really upset me (that Ask Me about the teacher who lied to his boss about having cancer leaps to mind)

Don't read this.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:32 PM on April 16, 2010

Jesus, MeTa seems to have gone bonkers these last few days.

Lord's name in vain! MeTa.
posted by davejay at 10:36 PM on April 16, 2010

This targeting of the city itself continues in some comments

As someone who lived in Philly for more than half my life, I can assure you its denizens can take care of themselves. Handily. And very few from there would seriously interprete the original post as an indictment of the city or its residents, let alone give a shit it was made in the first place.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:04 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

For example, the title, "City of Brotherly UUUHHHHGGGGG" suggests the city itself had done the vomiting, perhaps via a communal vomit collection in the Liberty Bell, not an individual.

dude, i think sports shit is dull dull dull, but this shit was so funny i almost choked on my snickerdoodle.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 11:20 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm from Washington State. Apparently, we just had a big animal-sex farm bust go down

Jesus - again? WTF, vicinity of Enumclaw?
posted by Artw at 11:33 PM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's Raining Florence Henderson, I was actually debating the please line. Thanks for stepping up.

As for pointing out the Hutterfucks being a small group, not a slur on the state? Dude, Detroit. Flint. Philadelphia. One of these things is not a joke to the world. One of them isn't a shining symbol of the failure of a metropolitan area. Philly has bad fan stigma? Two separate cities in Michigan have held the 'Murder Capitol of the World' banner. And that doesn't even include East Lansing, home of university students who overturn cars and start fires no matter how the game goes.

So far, it seems Philly should be known for people getting bent out of shape about what Philly is known for.
posted by Ghidorah at 12:12 AM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

lol if you give a shit about sports
posted by Damn That Television at 1:00 AM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

the recent thread about the right wing pyscho christian militia? I don't recall a single Michigander (that's right) getting angry about their state being mocked. In fact, I think most of us were just kind of embarrassed about the whole thing.

Yet we had a great big Metatalk because because some Massachusetter didn't like a born Mainer besmirching Maine.
posted by dunkadunc at 1:09 AM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

lol if you give a shit about sports

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
posted by ODiV at 1:30 AM on April 17, 2010

Broccoli Rabelais is my small contribution to the MetaFilter community. See recipe above.
posted by fixedgear at 5:16 AM on April 17, 2010

... so OC

"Don't call it that."
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:00 AM on April 17, 2010 [4 favorites]

Thank goodness no one has brought up the fans in Stoke-On-Trent.
posted by josher71 at 6:43 AM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

Or brought up anything on the fans in Stoke-On-Trent.
posted by pracowity at 7:26 AM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

Dear Philly fans:

Are y'all actually violent, dumb and crazy? (did we forget ugly, lazy and disrespectful?) Or just drawn that way?

Come back to us when you allow your most dumbass politician to be elected president of the U.S., twice, all while he turns the country 180° away from anything resembling progress and toward the Dark Ages instead, making things downright oppressive here at home and very uncomfortable and expensive for a lot of other countries in the process.

Come back to us when you are the site of more mass murders committed by one violent wacko with a gun, than any other state in the U.S.; and the home of more death-row executions than any other state in the U.S. (despite not having the most populous or even second most populous Death Row).

One FPP about a stupid barfy sports fan does not a MeFi kneejerk stereotyping trend make. You need a thicker skin. Stop being a crybaby.

Also, here: have a gun, a stripper and a barbecue sandwich.

Love,

the MeFi Texans
posted by pineapple at 7:40 AM on April 17, 2010 [5 favorites]

... so OC

"Don't call it that."

Banner Michael! Look at banner!
posted by Think_Long at 7:40 AM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ghidorah: "One of these things is not a joke to the world. One of them isn't a shining symbol of the failure of a metropolitan area."

I dunno, Philadelphia essentially closed the entire city last year, didn't they?

People need to quit taking this shit so seriously.
posted by graventy at 7:43 AM on April 17, 2010

WTF, vicinity of Enumclaw?

I've I always liked to think Enumclaw was a town full of C-programming velociraptors.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:44 AM on April 17, 2010 [3 favorites]

furiousxgeorge, check out Blue Sage in Southampton. They do glorious things with seitan there - the cubanos are to die for.
posted by iconomy at 8:29 AM on April 17, 2010

Again, it's a crappy post. I'm not offended by it, just don't feel that a post of such low quality that boils down to lolvomit with terrible framing with factual errors and a pointless onion link is even close to best of the web. Not even FARK thought this story was intriguing enough to link.

And again, I've been here since 2004 and this is the first time I've ever had enough of a problem with a post to point it out on Meta, maybe you guys need to get more of a thick skin about valid complaints instead of killing the messenger.

No matter what group or topic you are talking about, when a small minority of people or individuals does something it's inaccurate and silly to attribute the blame to the entire group.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:44 AM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

Look man, you may have been in a position to argue your case if you hadn't shit it the thread first-post and derailed it to begin with, but now you just come off as a tremendous hypocrite.
posted by BeerFilter at 9:27 AM on April 17, 2010

From Alvy Ampersand's link:

"Edmonton media were tipped off that, in fact, he had been working in Flin Flon, Man."

Flin Flon, Man.

Flin Flon

Oh, man, what a great place name.

FLIN FLON
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 9:31 AM on April 17, 2010

I've I always liked to think Enumclaw was a town full of C-programming velociraptors.

Still, now I feel fully justified in calling the "mergers-and-acquisitions entrepreneurs" of the dot com boom a bunch of dog fuckers.
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on April 17, 2010

Oh, man, what a great place name. FLIN FLON

As every good Canadian child who watched too much TV in the late seventies/early eighties knows, it's short for Flintabetty Flonatin, the hero of a dimestore novel.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:54 AM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

Look man, you may have been in a position to argue your case if you hadn't shit it the thread first-post and derailed it to begin with, but now you just come off as a tremendous hypocrite.

If the topic is how terrible sports fans in Philly are I don't see it as threadshitting or derailing to point out the kind of things that happen elsewhere. If you make a trolltastic FPP you can expect pissed off replies, it's the nature of it.

And again, it was a crappy post and clearly not best of the web, nothing I posted changes the quality of the FPP itself, it is what it is.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:58 AM on April 17, 2010

How the fuck did I screw up the URL in that first link? Sometimes I impress myself with my ineptitude. Anyhow, proper link to the story of Flin Flon, courtesy of the NFB.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:58 AM on April 17, 2010

If the topic is how terrible sports fans in Philly are I don't see it as threadshitting or derailing to point out the kind of things that happen elsewhere.

a) that is not the topic of the post. the topic of the post is that a man puked on a dad and his daughter. the framing is that philly fans have a bad reputation, which is true.

b) no one has a problem with you talking about the dodger arrests, and you're coming off pretty badly acting like that's the problem.
posted by shmegegge at 10:23 AM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm not offended by it

Come off it.. you certainly blew up about it like you were. Who gets that agitate over a merely poor post?
posted by modernnomad at 10:50 AM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

Tribal tosspot.
posted by littleredspiders at 10:57 AM on April 17, 2010

>:)

Could you please try to act like you're not just being a yutz about this?

To be fair, your italicized quote makes the smile seem much more wry than it appears in the original comment.
posted by abc123xyzinfinity at 12:01 PM on April 17, 2010

How is the title of this post not "puke & cry?"
posted by jtron at 12:02 PM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

a) that is not the topic of the post. the topic of the post is that a man puked on a dad and his daughter. the framing is that philly fans have a bad reputation, which is true.

I see six links about crappy Philly fans in general and one on the vomit. The range of the topic was clearly inclusive of more than just one incident.


the framing is that philly fans have a bad reputation, which is true.

And what? The reputation is bullshit, individual incidents don't add up to a true picture of millions of people.

I mean, are you serious? It's okay to make generalizations of people as long as the reputation says the generalizations are true?


b) no one has a problem with you talking about the dodger arrests, and you're coming off pretty badly acting like that's the problem.

So what exactly is the problem? Multiple people have said the first post was threadshitting. The only other content was a joke followed by "SERIOUSLY THOUGH..."

Is this really about the joke? Wow you guys, stop being crybabies about it, why are you so offended?

Metatalk: Who gets that agitate over a merely poor post?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:14 PM on April 17, 2010

dear furiousxgeorge:

please put it down.

Thanks,

Metafilter
posted by dunkadunc at 12:15 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

I see six links about crappy Philly fans in general and one on the vomit. The range of the topic was clearly inclusive of more than just one incident.

you know the topic of a post isn't decided by counting links, right? it's amusing context for an amusing news story. you're all wound up about nothing.

I mean, are you serious? It's okay to make generalizations of people as long as the reputation says the generalizations are true?

No, and you're being obtuse. generalizations are not a capital B Bad Thing all the time. Saying "sports fans in philly have a bad reputation" is not maligning the city of Philadelphia. It's just stating the truth: that they have a bad reputation. that reputation informs the post in an amusing way.

Aso, it's not bullshit. philly sports fans have earned their reputation, even if it is exaggerated.

Is this really about the joke? Wow you guys, stop being crybabies about it, why are you so offended?

actually, it's everything you've said in the thread. That's what thread shitting is, is spending time repeatedly talking about how much you hate the post in the thread instead of just flagging it and/or making a meta in the first place. I hope this clarifies the definition of thread shitting for you, to avoid further confusion.
posted by shmegegge at 12:23 PM on April 17, 2010

you know the topic of a post isn't decided by counting links, right? it's amusing context for an amusing news story. you're all wound up about nothing.


It's amusing for you to generalize millions of people as drunk violent criminals, okay. You really think, minus a single post from me, the topic of that thread wouldn't be a bunch of Philly bashing? I see posts in that thread from people who obviously read nothing I said or the thread.


As a Redskins fan, I have childhood memories of watching the Body Bag Game live on Monday Night Football.. Also see - Section 700 at the old Veterans Stadium, which had its own JAIL, the place was so rowdy.

gotta love the NFC East. Philly fans.. SMH. I mean, it's the Nats. Why are you even going to get mad at them.

This is what the thread looks like without me. Bashing philly, repeating the incorrect fact in the FPP, rehashing the old and tired jail/court story that was already rehashed in the FPP. It's what every thread on every forum looks like when the topic comes up. Do you think you could use some google-fu and find me one post on a high traffic site with comments that posted about this story and DIDN'T end up with a large amount of general philly bashing?

I am very familiar with this topic, trolly sports writers break out the same list in the FPP every year, it never ends well.


actually, it's everything you've said in the thread.

You are fully entitled to your opinion, but as I said multiple people have complained specifically about the first post which is what I was addressing.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:45 PM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

The longer people keep things like this going, maybe trying to get that last word in before the mods shut it down, the loonier they look. It's just a natural law.
posted by pracowity at 1:07 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's amusing for you to generalize millions of people as drunk violent criminals, okay.

sometimes, but that's not what the post did.

I see posts in that thread from people who obviously read nothing I said or the thread.

I suppose it's possible. not much of what you said was worth reading. I see a bunch of people responding to precisely what you've said, and you responding to things no one has said.

You are fully entitled to your opinion, but as I said multiple people have complained specifically about the first post which is what I was addressing.

you're responding to accusations of thread shitting. opinion has nothing to do with. you shit in the thread, people called you out on it and now you're getting all nitpicky and backpedalling. this callout is lame.
posted by shmegegge at 1:09 PM on April 17, 2010

To be fair, your italicized quote makes the smile seem much more wry than it appears in the original comment.

Agreed. Though also to be fair, I'm not totally feeling like Damn That Television wasn't just out to needle Philly Fans with this FPP in which case, not cool.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:17 PM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

sometimes, but that's not what the post did.

Philly sports fans did this. They did this. They did this. There was zero attempt to to imply anything else or blame the actual perpetrators.


I suppose it's possible. not much of what you said was worth reading. I see a bunch of people responding to precisely what you've said, and you responding to things no one has said.

Yes, some did reply to what I said, which was that the post was inaccurate philly bashing. Some did not read what I said, and proceeded to post inaccurate philly bashing.


you're responding to accusations of thread shitting. opinion has nothing to do with. you shit in the thread, people called you out on it and now you're getting all nitpicky and backpedalling. this callout is lame.

I am fully able to admit I crossed the line in some of the later posts, after the point where I had been accused of supporting vomiting on little girls especially (No generalizations about Philly fans here!) but the first post was not threadshitting.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:21 PM on April 17, 2010

Charlie Murphy vs Prince makes it better. All sporting action, no vomiting.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:25 PM on April 17, 2010

the first post was not threadshitting.

Saying "Fuck you. This post blows." in the first comment is the textbook definition of threadshitting, unless I have misunderstood you.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that you absolutely hated the post and felt like it besmirched the good people of Philadelphia with its wide brush. cortex and I both felt that it was a not-great post that didn't hit our deletion threshhold but probably did approach it. Maybe next time if we saw an identical post we'd remove it.

Flagging and moving on isn't a mantra here because it's easy. It's a mantra because it is difficult. There is at least one user here who is a bit of a friend of mine, who flags, moves on, and then sends me a long email about what he WANTED to say to the SOB who was being horrible in one thread or another. And I send him a note note back saying thanks for not fucking up MetaFilter. If you'd like to set up some arrangement that is similar, there is probably some room in my mailbox.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:30 PM on April 17, 2010 [5 favorites]

Saying "Fuck you. This post blows." in the first comment is the textbook definition of threadshitting, unless I have misunderstood you.

It was a joke, responding as the theoretical boorish Philadelphia sports fan implied in the links. I don't tend to post BOOOOOOOOO! to threads I don't like. I know I can have a dry sense of humor, but I thought the "Seriously though..." would have made it clear the preceding was not meant to be taken seriously.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:36 PM on April 17, 2010

It's just that your next paraphrase was inaccurate as well. I'm not saying it isn't ok to mention where it happened, the problem is including the framing suggesting this incident was a part of a pattern of behavior among the general population of Philly fans.

This was my main problem with stating the victims were fans of the opposing team when they weren't. That also feeds into the inaccurate stereotype, turning it from the story of a drunk guy gone nuts into something relevant to sports in some way.

Look, I work at a bar, a drunk hippy wandered into the ladies bathroom the other day and took a dump all over the floor. Fucked up, I know, but it isn't something astounding enough to post about with a list of all the other crimes hippies have committed.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:11 PM on April 17, 2010

However, if the hippie had intentionally taken a dump on an eleven-year-old girl, and gotten beat up and arrested for it, then I would expect a post about it.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 2:26 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

Was the hippie from Philadelphia?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:29 PM on April 17, 2010

And crash, the post would be all like "all hippies are like this lol amirite?"
posted by fixedgear at 2:30 PM on April 17, 2010

However, if the hippie had intentionally taken a dump on an eleven-year-old girl, and gotten beat up and arrested for it, then I would expect a post about it.

Woooooooooooosh.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:33 PM on April 17, 2010

Saying "Fuck you. This post blows." in the first comment is the textbook definition of threadshitting, unless I have misunderstood you.

It was a joke, responding as the theoretical boorish Philadelphia sports fan implied in the links. I don't tend to post BOOOOOOOOO! to threads I don't like. I know I can have a dry sense of humor, but I thought the "Seriously though..." would have made it clear the preceding was not meant to be taken seriously.

One thing I've found about Metafilter to some degree, and I think the mods to a higher degree, is that loud yelling sarcasm, acting like the person that you disagree with, is considered to be (close to) as bad as the actual statement being made. Because agreed-with or not, the statement alone is bad. Whether you're thread-shitting as an art project, or sarcastically in response to another comment, or just because you enjoy it, it looks the same.
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:36 PM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

I'm going to assume Philadelphia is awful purely on the basis of furiousxgeorge.
posted by Artw at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2010 [4 favorites]

furiousxgeorge-there's not a single metafilter user who hasn't been seriously offended by a thread. I've been around these parts A LONG TIME, and there's a reason I put my faith in the system-flag and move on. I've watched how the "never give up never surrender" approach to protesting offensive material works, which is to say it doesn't especially for the campaigning commenter.

At this point, you're alienating people who were supporting you because it seems like no matter what you can't just let it go. Whether you can see it or not, you've really made this thread all about you and not about the issue you really care about.

I'm trying to be as gentle about this as possible, because, again, I KNOW what's it like to see something really offensive in the blue. Usually, like jessamyn's friend, I'll email other mefi friends with my unedited responses to an offensive post or comment to spare the community a derail. In fact, I've even vetted comments with other mefi users just to be sure they aren't too fighty.

At this point, the mods have spoken, they aren't going to delete the thread, so you need to accept that.
posted by miss-lapin at 2:56 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't think there is any way to view that post as acting like Damn That Television. It was acting like someone who boos people when they are drafted, is ungrateful, often-times racist, tossed snow balls at Santa, jeered a man near paralysis, needs a jail and court on hands at all times who is joined in the glorious legacy of intentional vomit. In other words, as the stereotype implies. The profanity is part of the stereotype.


you're glossing over the vomiting

You seriously think it would be national news if it happened at a bar? I'm not saying it isn't an intriguing and mind blowing best of the web moment, just that no one would have noticed just like they don't write about every disgusting thing that happens at bars.

The terrible Philly fan is a well known media narrative, they snatch up whatever they can and write about it forever. That is part of my eye rolling at all of this, you will forget this in a week but my grandchildren will be hearing about it from lame sports writers 100 years from now.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:59 PM on April 17, 2010

I'm conflicted because honestly the post didn't bother me but piratebowling swinging back real scrappy like at the haters does kinda make me want to go all BRAVEHEART in the name of my city.
posted by The Straightener at 3:16 PM on April 17, 2010

The terrible Philly fan is a well known media narrative, they snatch up whatever they can and write about it forever. That is part of my eye rolling at all of this, you will forget this in a week but my grandchildren will be hearing about it from lame sports writers 100 years from now.

This is quite the persecution complex.

Let me put your mind at ease -- 95.4% of the people in the world know nothing about Philadelphia (including this 'boorish fan' stereotype you are terrified of) and don't give two shits about the place.

This story could have happened in any other city, and it would have got the same media coverage. It's "news of the weird" and nothing more. You've already established you don't think it was best of the web, and you've got confirmation from the mods that it's not their favourite post either.

Everything else you're doing about trying to tie it into some deeper Philly-related conspiracy is pissing into the wind, and you're the one getting wet. The poster of the FPP chose some stuff to pad out a thin post, and had it occurred in say Detroit, they would've probably still posted it, and padded it out with relatively thin "shit that sucks about Detroit" links.
posted by modernnomad at 3:29 PM on April 17, 2010

Sports rivalries are SERIOUS BUSINESS
posted by empath at 3:33 PM on April 17, 2010

This is quite the persecution complex.

The Santa story is 42 years old and I hear about it multiple times a year. Yeah, it's old and tired, as this story soon will be along with the rest of the list in the FPP that was cribbed directly from a billion other news stories. I'm seriously not making this up, feel free to google.


This story could have happened in any other city, and it would have got the same media coverage.


Bullshit. There is no way the incident would be linked to various decade old incidents.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm suggesting there is some sort of conspiracy, I'm happy to continue discussing this topic but it is a waste of time to continue in that manner. It's just lazy and stupid writing, not a conspiracy.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:39 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

*grabs joint and a jar of Nutella*

my gf's wee sister was going back through airport security last week and they seized a jar of nutella from her, becuase you know, its patently obvious 12 year old girls with jars of nutella can down airliners.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:15 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm not a fan of Phillies fans, but Eagles fans are just fine in my book.
posted by infinitywaltz at 4:17 PM on April 17, 2010

I like Philadelphia.
posted by jonnyploy at 5:37 PM on April 17, 2010

Reminds me of an intro to a Dudley Do-Right segment (paraphrasing) "Dog Team: The main mode of transportation in the Yukon; or any team out of Philadelphia"
posted by nightwood at 5:47 PM on April 17, 2010

Mike Vick drove away all the dogs, sadly. :(
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:54 PM on April 17, 2010

Portland, Maine hipsters?

Ayuh.
posted by Mister_A at 6:43 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

The FPP was the first time I'd heard of some stereotype of obnoxious Phillies fans. That said, when our Nationals season ticket syndicate held our ticket draft, I intentionally avoided picking Phillies games based on my experiences with asshole fans making it unpleasant to attend games. Maybe I'm thin skinned.
posted by exogenous at 7:15 PM on April 17, 2010

The FPP was the first time I'd heard of some stereotype of obnoxious Phillies fans.

Uh-huh.

I don't understand why more people are not making laudatory exclamations regarding the Phillies.
Because Phillies fans are overwhelmingly obnoxious douchebags.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:31 PM on April 17, 2010

Are you really going through people's posting histories to catch them in a supposed lie about their knowledge of Philadelphia stereotypes?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:40 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

oh thank god i thought you were going to quit posting and let the thread die
posted by graventy at 8:03 PM on April 17, 2010 [1 favorite]

I know you're incredibly angry about all of this, but have you ever thought that part of the continued talk about Philly fans is done with a bit of respect? Just from an NFL standpoint, people talk about the psychopaths in the Black Hole in Oakland, or stare in disbelief at the assortment of shirtless, body-painted hypothermia victims at Buffalo home games in December. Philly fans are seen as die-hard fanatics, the very meaning of the word. Stories like this? I'm pretty sure we all know that it's not an every day occurance. I respect Philly fans a hell of a lot more than L.A. sports teams' fans (who by and large can't be bother to show up in the first quarter of a game-- ooh stereotype) or Boston fans (who have all the smug obnoxiousness of someone who used to weigh 600 pounds, is currently rail thin, and tsks at you for eating a donut), even if, due to stereotyping, I doubt I would want to watch a game with them.

Mind you, this is about sports fans. I don't have a single freaking opinion of your city. Aside from the Eagles and Sixers, it's just a space on a map to me, because I happen to like sports, and wish continued pain and suffering on their franchises. And I respect the hell out of Philadelphia sports fans for booing Kobe Bryant at every chance they get, local product or no. I love the fact that the Lakers' championship trophy was presented to them in the locker room, rather than at midcourt (as is customary) because Stern had good reason to fear an incident if the Lakers (and Bryant) got their trophy in front of Philly fans. And just to head off being asked what was the good reason? I don't know, but David Stern does things for a reason, and if he changed a long held tradition, there must have been a pretty damn good reason.
posted by Ghidorah at 8:03 PM on April 17, 2010

Are you really going through people's posting histories to catch them in a supposed lie about their knowledge of Philadelphia stereotypes?

Nope, saw it earlier when I was taking a look at previous times Philly sports have come up. (It turns out there is unprovoked Philly bashing, even WITHOUT stories about vomit or the usual laundry list of snowballstuff)

You can bash me all you want, but it's pretty amusing a guy claims no knowledge of a stereotype about obnoxious Philly fans when he posts that he believes that exact stereotype himself, you know, with the SAME EXACT WORDS.

It's pretty disingenuous.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:13 PM on April 17, 2010

So you chose to pepper your tirade against lazy, cheap shots with a Michael Vick dog joke?
posted by mintcake! at 8:36 PM on April 17, 2010

Vick deserves all the ridicule you can heap on him and more, as does the puker. Just don't go implying millions of people have something to do with any of it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:39 PM on April 17, 2010

I just watched the Mets win a game in 20 fucking innings. That's like 2.222 fucking games, man. and I didn't puke. I may have belched a few times.
posted by jonmc at 8:51 PM on April 17, 2010 [2 favorites]

Go phils
posted by nomad at 8:55 PM on April 17, 2010

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think exogenous was saying he came to that conclusion on his own, without having heard of the stereotype beforehand. This is not really contradicted by his having said previously that he thinks Philadelphia fans are obnoxious. It would, however, be contradicted by his having said in the past, "Phillies fans have a reputation for being obnoxious" or similar.

It's true, though, that you can sometimes hear about things without being really conscious of it, and think you came up with it on your own.
posted by palliser at 9:33 PM on April 17, 2010

I'm not sure, "I stereotype a group of people because of a bad personal experience" is really much more defensible than "I stereotype a group of people because of stuff I saw in the media."

The essential flaw in the thinking there remains the same.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 9:46 PM on April 17, 2010

a) I've had bad experiences with Philly fans at Nat games
b) Didn't know that there was a global understanding of Philly fans as obnoxious

I find it slightly hard to believe that if you asked him previous to any of this if Philly fans have a good reputation or a bad reputation he would say good, that he was blissfully unaware of all of this. The reputation is pretty well known.

I can't get inside his head, so I can't answer that. The previous posts he has made on the subject lack the nuance of pointing out it was a few bad apples. Phillies fans are this. Phillies fans are that. Much like the puke post, they do this, they do that.

I'm not sure what you could expect anyone to say about the Santa episode. It's four decades old and still used as an example in crappy Philly fans sucks discussions of all types.

I mean what can you say? They grabbed a 19 year old out of the stands and put him in a Santa outfit as a halftime show, people tossed snowballs and booed, the kid thought it was funny. It's hardly the crime against humanity it's made out to be.

I'm not defending tossing stuff on the field, but that isn't some unique event worthy of 40 years of ridicule. It happens every year somewhere in the country with objects more dangerous than snowballs.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:44 PM on April 17, 2010

You can bash me all you want

*throws snowballs*
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:39 PM on April 17, 2010

*projectile vomits, but takes care not to get any on furiousxgeorge junior*
posted by pracowity at 11:56 PM on April 17, 2010

We choose to flag it and move on. We choose to flag it and move on and not threadshit in this post and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:43 AM on April 18, 2010 [1 favorite]

Let both sides seek to invoke the wonders of baseball instead of its terrors. Together let us explore the unassisted triple play, conquer the AL east, eradicate steroids, tap the veteran depths, and encourage the arts and commerce.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 4:45 AM on April 18, 2010

I find it slightly hard to believe that if you asked him previous to any of this if Philly fans have a good reputation or a bad reputation he would say good, that he was blissfully unaware of all of this. The reputation is pretty well known.

It's true. I mean, I'm a fucking Nats fan: I had zero interest in baseball prior to about 2007, much less any other pro sports, and only started going to games after I met Mrs. exogenous. I sure as hell don't follow media commentary or wherever I might have learned of any such stereotypes.

My opinion of Phillies fans relative to fans of other teams was, and is, based entirely on my personal experience at Nats games. If anything, prior to my personal experiences, if forced to pick I would probably have choosen some other team (which I will not name to avoid offending anyone) as having the most obnoxious fans. Maybe I would still, if my experience wasn't what it is.

I will also repeat my previous statement that MOST of the fans are fine. I think one can appreciate that it doesn't take very many assholes to pollute a section of a stadium, particularly when the games are as sparsely attended as ours. To the extend I offended anyone, I apologize. I will certainly have an open mind about the subject at the next Nats/Phillies game I attend, in September. Meanwhile, I'm looking looking forward to getting out in the great weather this morning and seeing the Nats play Milwaukee again this afternoon.
posted by exogenous at 5:03 AM on April 18, 2010

Fair enough, I was wrong to call you out for your comment when you clearly stated in the puke thread that most fans are okay. Apologies.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 5:11 AM on April 18, 2010

Philly unfairly catching flak for ballpark incident
posted by fixedgear at 6:59 AM on April 18, 2010 [2 favorites]

From that article: As we all know, Philadelphia has a reputation for harboring and enabling lawless savages masquerading as fans.

This isn't something I was all that aware of, pre-post. I'm starting to think being it's a part of the fundamental Philly fan mentality.
posted by graventy at 7:21 AM on April 18, 2010

What a quality post, bringing the stereotype to whole new people who now uncritically believe it.

Once it became news, we all knew the national media would pounce and pound the city worse than anything Clemmens experienced. And that's exactly what happened. CBS Sports, Fox Sports, and ESPN all made it the lead story online, prominently displaying it on the respective Web sites. Deadspin, The Big Lead, and other well-trafficked blogs addressed the incident - as did a host of regional and national TV outlets and radio stations. If you guessed that much of the commentary wasn't flattering for Philly and that the words snowballs and Santa Claus kept popping up, you're right.

Yup, because it's and old and tired lame media narrative that come with a pre-written story, as you can see in all the articles on this and reflected in the stenography in the FPP.

It's about on the level of a lame political post doing stereotypical conservative or liberal bashing.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:27 PM on April 18, 2010

us nats fans can get pretty rough too one time i spilled my chardonnay on this guy and he threw a chicken croquette at me but i caught it in my mouth and it turns out we went to boarding school together
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:19 PM on April 18, 2010 [9 favorites]

some chick puked on me during a nats game once but to be fair we were on a yacht and she had eaten some bad shrimp scampi!

it was janet reno
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:26 PM on April 18, 2010

blah blah chow meow actual washington senators
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:31 PM on April 18, 2010

Look, I work at a bar, a drunk hippy wandered into the ladies bathroom the other day and took a dump all over the floor.

Philadelphia freedom, baby!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:28 PM on April 18, 2010

The proper song reference is: "Freedom of the body, freedom of the mind…"

To which, someone should probably respond: ""Mannequin" was filmed at Woolworth's." Because that's the next best line.
posted by klangklangston at 11:48 PM on April 18, 2010

In an otherwise awesome song, the part about Mannequin and Woolworth's always bugged me. As any Philadelphian and cheesy film buff knows, Mannequin was filmed at Wanamaker's, dammit! The boys in Ween are from New Hope. They should know better.

GRAR, etc.
posted by shiu mai baby at 6:40 AM on April 19, 2010 [1 favorite]

Then again, I'm also vexed by the line in "Punk Rock Girl" where they call "California Dreamin'" a Beach Boys song, and now is the part where I underscore the fact that I a) overthink things, and b) am quite probably the Enemy of Fun.
posted by shiu mai baby at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2010 [3 favorites]

klang, like Boyz II Men, is still keepin' up the beat.
posted by SpiffyRob at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2010

Vomit as weapon just makes me think about George H. W. Bush and that incident in Japan. I was about eleven at the time and it was really the only incident that made me take an interest in the news for more than thirty seconds.

I have no idea about Bush's sports team preferences and what bearing they may have had in his gastric distress.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:02 AM on April 19, 2010

I hate to be the bigger man in a 220-post MeTa, but wowzers. If I had known that someone would flip the fuck out out and carpetbombpost like 1000 times, I would likely not have posted it. It was certainly not meant to provoke -- it was a news-of-the-weird-but-also-interesting post on a Friday afternoon backed up with what, to me, were pretty good articles (the jail in the stadium one and the cheering while the guy almost died one were totally news to me) and a really tame pun. Apparently many more people agreed than disagreed! (thank u mods i love u mods)

The two cities I've lived in since 2000 are LA and NYC. Admittedly, as per my earlier, drug-addled lol, I don't care too mucho about sportos. But if someone made, for example, a post about how LA fans have a reputation, and then calmly listed all the times LA fans have rioted after a championship, then made a not-offensive riot-based pun in the title of the post, not only would I not shit in the thread in the very first post, I'd happily accept the mockery, and even contribute this picture I took of the time the LAPD rolled out in deep numbers back in 2005 after a game. (Seriously it was like a standing army, there were 100+ cars it was crazy, also like 8 helicopters but that's not remarkable in LA but is always cool)

It was a fun, Friday-afternoon post. I almost didn't post it because I thought it would get like 7 responses. At its heart, it was all about laughing about barfing. Many more people liked it than did not. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad. Far be it from me to tell others what to be offended by, but if you're grinding your postin'-axe and praying to Hayden, Goddess Queen of Flamewars, to protect you in battle over City of Brotherly UUURRGGGHH, the fault, dear reader, lies not in the post ...
posted by Damn That Television at 8:30 AM on April 19, 2010 [4 favorites]

I have no idea about Bush's sports team preferences and what bearing they may have had in his gastric distress.

Ironically, that incident happened after he lost a really brutal tennis doubles match with the Emperor of Japan and the Crown Prince that afternoon. So perhaps he was pissed he lost. :)
posted by zarq at 8:31 AM on April 19, 2010

Background on the Bush incident
posted by zarq at 8:33 AM on April 19, 2010

furiousxgeorge got off on a rampage long before the winky faces. all this nonsense belongs to him.
posted by shmegegge at 7:29 PM on April 19, 2010 [1 favorite]

all this nonsense belongs to him.

I never should have tossed that snow ball at Santa. :P
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:50 PM on April 21, 2010

Don't tase me bro!
posted by fixedgear at 6:59 AM on May 4, 2010

I'm trying to figure out where all the the "Philly bashing" that "is getting old and tired" is, because I don't think I've been seeing any on the blue.

Oof, maybe you don't notice it because you're not here in Philly. I groan every time a post mentions Philly because I know there will be some threadshitting in it to the tune of Filthadelphia/booing Santa/etc. In the green, too.
posted by desuetude at 3:30 PM on May 4, 2010