Carl Icahn has a keen eye. May 11, 2010 5:18 AM Subscribe
How come User 58529's name changed?
I was looking at my contacts and saw a name I didn't recognize. So I went to Carl Icahn's profile page and recognized the lack of activity, the profile... and the favorites, oh the favorites, from this user's previous name. (I'm not mentioning it because I remember the mods didn't quite approve of the schtick)
There's no new activity and no new favorites, and I can't remember if the account was previously closed/disabled/whatever, but I remember the last time I looked at my contacts, the old name was still there. So now I'm curious, what happened?
I was looking at my contacts and saw a name I didn't recognize. So I went to Carl Icahn's profile page and recognized the lack of activity, the profile... and the favorites, oh the favorites, from this user's previous name. (I'm not mentioning it because I remember the mods didn't quite approve of the schtick)
There's no new activity and no new favorites, and I can't remember if the account was previously closed/disabled/whatever, but I remember the last time I looked at my contacts, the old name was still there. So now I'm curious, what happened?
Once in a blue moon we'll change a user's name if they have no posting/commenting activity on the site. This is especially true if the user's original name was problematic in some way to the community [i.e. we did this once with the user named cunt]. This was a year ago so I can't remember if we told him to change it or asked him to change it. The profile page with all the shitty comments is still pretty borderline.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:57 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:57 AM on May 11, 2010
[i.e. we did this once with the user named cunt]
So it's available?!
posted by gman at 6:00 AM on May 11, 2010 [23 favorites]
So it's available?!
posted by gman at 6:00 AM on May 11, 2010 [23 favorites]
Oh look at that, a profile page full of shitty comments.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:05 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:05 AM on May 11, 2010
Speaking of shitty usernames, whatever happened to the undelightful tagteam of hey ladies I sure do like cunnilingus and hey sweaty truckers I sure do like analingus or whatever they were?
posted by shakespeherian at 7:23 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 7:23 AM on May 11, 2010
Yeah, this was one of those really weird edge cases. I can't remember the specific circumstances when the change happened. I'm not sure he's been around at all in the last year or so, but it's hard to tell when the only available activity record is the random comments he's venting spleen about on his profile page.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:24 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:24 AM on May 11, 2010
"Ladies..." had more or less instant name regret and so got changed on day one. Gentlemen was a sock of another user who retired it after a few comments on the day they set it up.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:26 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:26 AM on May 11, 2010
Gentlemen was a sock of another user who retired it after a few comments on the day they set it up.
Calling that account "gentlemen" was a really good way to sneak attack my work's internet nanny, meanie.
posted by Hiker at 7:41 AM on May 11, 2010
Calling that account "gentlemen" was a really good way to sneak attack my work's internet nanny, meanie.
posted by Hiker at 7:41 AM on May 11, 2010
"Ladies..." had more or less instant name regret and so got changed on day one. Gentlemen was a sock of another user who retired it after a few comments on the day they set it up.
Wait really? For some reason I have memory of that episode lasting a week or two.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:42 AM on May 11, 2010
Wait really? For some reason I have memory of that episode lasting a week or two.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:42 AM on May 11, 2010
I can't read the word "gentlemen" anymore without hearing it in that Aqua Teen Hunger Force mad scientist's voice. Gentlemen, behold!
posted by backseatpilot at 7:47 AM on May 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by backseatpilot at 7:47 AM on May 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Wait really? For some reason I have memory of that episode lasting a week or two.
Ah! No, looks like you remember right, it wasn't exactly instant. I think I was conflating that situation with another one.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:52 AM on May 11, 2010
Ah! No, looks like you remember right, it wasn't exactly instant. I think I was conflating that situation with another one.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:52 AM on May 11, 2010
How was that dude expecting to get any traffic to his high school diary if he never made any comments on the site?
Think of it as a very exclusive, secret art installation. One that you have to go through a couple of deserted warehouses and up a dodgy flight of stairs to get to. But once you're there... you suddenly realize that the artist really wasn't all that good to begin with, and it's probably better left hidden.
posted by quin at 7:56 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Think of it as a very exclusive, secret art installation. One that you have to go through a couple of deserted warehouses and up a dodgy flight of stairs to get to. But once you're there... you suddenly realize that the artist really wasn't all that good to begin with, and it's probably better left hidden.
posted by quin at 7:56 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Think of it as a very exclusive, secret art installation. One that you have to go through a couple of deserted warehouses and up a dodgy flight of stairs to get to.
That was an art project?? I just thought that was where all those ninjas from early 1990s movies trained.
posted by cobra_high_tigers at 8:19 AM on May 11, 2010
That was an art project?? I just thought that was where all those ninjas from early 1990s movies trained.
posted by cobra_high_tigers at 8:19 AM on May 11, 2010
I dug around in my email because I literally couldn't remember what happened. Timeline looks like this.
- user signs up with sock puppet goes on a "your comment is dumb" flagging spree
- we ban them, maybe twice?
- nothing happens for years
- user emails us, "hey I timeouted myself but I'd like to come back"
- we email "um I think we banned you"
- user emails "whoops, okay guess I'll just sign up for another account" [this is okay in nearly all circumstances]
- me "hey it was a long time ago, let me just reenable this account you've never commented with and change the user name
- user: "okay"
- this MeTa post
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:24 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
- user signs up with sock puppet goes on a "your comment is dumb" flagging spree
- we ban them, maybe twice?
- nothing happens for years
- user emails us, "hey I timeouted myself but I'd like to come back"
- we email "um I think we banned you"
- user emails "whoops, okay guess I'll just sign up for another account" [this is okay in nearly all circumstances]
- me "hey it was a long time ago, let me just reenable this account you've never commented with and change the user name
- user: "okay"
- this MeTa post
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:24 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
In jessamyn's comment, please take it as read that I did a sed 's/-/MetaFilter:/'
posted by DU at 8:35 AM on May 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by DU at 8:35 AM on May 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
- user emails us, "hey I timeouted myself but I'd like to come back"
- we email "um I think we banned you"
Wow that didn't even work in elementary school, guy.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:40 AM on May 11, 2010
- we email "um I think we banned you"
Wow that didn't even work in elementary school, guy.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:40 AM on May 11, 2010
During my silence, I've been busy acquiring user IDs. Now I'm ready to launch my campaign to appoint several new members to Metafilter's board of moderators.
For too long, mathowie has padded his board with unqualified cronies. Clearly these crony moderators have abandoned integrity in exchange outrageous corporate perks--the most recent and shameful being the moderator boondoggle known as "MaxFunCon."
As a major user ID holder, I am acting to increase user ID value by nominating a slate of new moderators. These moderators have the industry expertise required to accurately represent users and hold mathowie accountable.
My nominees are:
- dios
- I Love Tacos
- Krrrlson
I am hopeful that mathowie will put this slate of moderators up for vote by all user IDs (of which I am the largest owner). If not, I will be forced to pursue a hostile acquisition. This means that I will likely sell Ask Metafilter to Yahoo! and scrap Metafilter Music for parts.
Sincerely,
Carl Icahn
posted by Carl Icahn at 9:05 AM on May 11, 2010 [18 favorites]
For too long, mathowie has padded his board with unqualified cronies. Clearly these crony moderators have abandoned integrity in exchange outrageous corporate perks--the most recent and shameful being the moderator boondoggle known as "MaxFunCon."
As a major user ID holder, I am acting to increase user ID value by nominating a slate of new moderators. These moderators have the industry expertise required to accurately represent users and hold mathowie accountable.
My nominees are:
- dios
- I Love Tacos
- Krrrlson
I am hopeful that mathowie will put this slate of moderators up for vote by all user IDs (of which I am the largest owner). If not, I will be forced to pursue a hostile acquisition. This means that I will likely sell Ask Metafilter to Yahoo! and scrap Metafilter Music for parts.
Sincerely,
Carl Icahn
posted by Carl Icahn at 9:05 AM on May 11, 2010 [18 favorites]
but why are you doing this carl because icahn
posted by grobstein at 9:08 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by grobstein at 9:08 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have PTSD even reading that comment.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:11 AM on May 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:11 AM on May 11, 2010 [9 favorites]
I look good in a flowing robe with a cowl just sayin'.
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I finally realized what MetaFilter has been lacking lo these many years: Its own supervillain.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:16 AM on May 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 9:16 AM on May 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
Dude, MetaFilter is not a democracy. You can't vote yourself to mod status. I have to appoint you.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 9:24 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 9:24 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I finally realized what MetaFilter has been lacking lo these many years: Its own supervillain.
...anyone else hearing the howling of dogs and the screams of children?
posted by The Whelk at 9:25 AM on May 11, 2010
...anyone else hearing the howling of dogs and the screams of children?
posted by The Whelk at 9:25 AM on May 11, 2010
Soon, you fools... I'll show you! I show you all!
posted by shakespeherian at 9:26 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 9:26 AM on May 11, 2010
I finally realized what MetaFilter has been lacking lo these many years: Its own supervillain.
If we don't already have one, then what is Digg?
posted by NoraReed at 9:30 AM on May 11, 2010
If we don't already have one, then what is Digg?
posted by NoraReed at 9:30 AM on May 11, 2010
Obviously an super-villian would have to come from some alternate reality, a mirror universe ...a twisted reflection ...a..a...
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 AM on May 11, 2010
yo.
posted by The Bizzaro Whelk at 9:32 AM on May 11, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by The Bizzaro Whelk at 9:32 AM on May 11, 2010 [13 favorites]
Cheese it! The fuzz!
posted by shakespeherian at 9:33 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 9:33 AM on May 11, 2010
I hate it when we both have goatees
posted by The Whelk at 9:34 AM on May 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:34 AM on May 11, 2010 [5 favorites]
So, you're applying to be Mathowie's arch-nemesis? I think asking for the job pretty much disqualifies you.
I have to say, I admire The Whelk's/The Bizarro Whelk's planning.
posted by theora55 at 9:38 AM on May 11, 2010
I have to say, I admire The Whelk's/The Bizarro Whelk's planning.
posted by theora55 at 9:38 AM on May 11, 2010
- user emails us, "hey I timeouted myself but I'd like to come back"Dear Governor Paterson,
- we email "um I think we banned you"
I timouted myself but I'd like to come back.
Sincerely,
Inmate 82249
Fishkill Correctional Facility
Dear Inmate 82249,
Um, I think we banned you.
posted by Zed at 9:42 AM on May 11, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think it's weird that The Bizarro Whelk has favorited funny things. Shouldn't The Bizzaro Whelk be favoriting spam, Republican talking points, and comments that insist that comic books are just for kids?
posted by shakespeherian at 9:43 AM on May 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 9:43 AM on May 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
I finally realized what MetaFilter has been lacking lo these many years: Its own supervillain.
So, reading from Jessamyn's quick timeline, it would seem that Carl Icahn has spent the last several years banished in the Phantom Zone. I had no idea the mods had the ability for that particular banhammer, but there it is.
Now we must wait for the hero among us to emerge . . . but who will be the one?
posted by Think_Long at 9:44 AM on May 11, 2010
So, reading from Jessamyn's quick timeline, it would seem that Carl Icahn has spent the last several years banished in the Phantom Zone. I had no idea the mods had the ability for that particular banhammer, but there it is.
Now we must wait for the hero among us to emerge . . . but who will be the one?
posted by Think_Long at 9:44 AM on May 11, 2010
Shakespeherian, in Bizarro World, favoriting things means you hate them.
posted by adipocere at 9:48 AM on May 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by adipocere at 9:48 AM on May 11, 2010 [4 favorites]
::cue music::
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:48 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:48 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd say it would be cool to have a contact option for "supervillain" or "arch-nemesis" or whatever, and maybe the current Site Scoundrel would just be determined by whoever has the running total, but I imagine this could turn into one of those encourages-bad-behavior features the mods wouldn't like.
posted by cobra_high_tigers at 9:51 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by cobra_high_tigers at 9:51 AM on May 11, 2010
Shakespeherian, in Bizarro World, favoriting things means you hate them.
So the law of double negatives means that the Bizarro World is identical to our world. Therefore: THE WHELK IS EVIL
posted by shakespeherian at 9:52 AM on May 11, 2010
So the law of double negatives means that the Bizarro World is identical to our world. Therefore: THE WHELK IS EVIL
posted by shakespeherian at 9:52 AM on May 11, 2010
Are name changes actually things that can happen though? Because I totally signed up for this when I was going through a "I need to use my real name on the internet so that I am more credible" phase and now I can't answer sex questions on askme.
posted by NoraReed at 9:55 AM on May 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 9:55 AM on May 11, 2010 [6 favorites]
*cocks gun*
My plan was sheer elegance in it's simplicity.
posted by The Whelk at 9:55 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
My plan was sheer elegance in it's simplicity.
posted by The Whelk at 9:55 AM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
No, shakespearian, because hating things in Bizarro world means you will be nice to them.
Seriously, this can go on just about forever.
posted by adipocere at 9:57 AM on May 11, 2010
Seriously, this can go on just about forever.
posted by adipocere at 9:57 AM on May 11, 2010
But being nice in Bizarro World means acting with cruelty.
Apparently nothing much is ever accomplished in Bizarro World.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:59 AM on May 11, 2010
Apparently nothing much is ever accomplished in Bizarro World.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:59 AM on May 11, 2010
- me "hey it was a long time ago, let me just reenable this account you've never commented with and change the user name
- user: "okay"
- this MeTa post
So you passed up an opportunity to increase the gross profit of MetaFilter Network Inc. by $5? I do hope someone's paycheck is garnished for this transgression!
posted by slogger at 10:00 AM on May 11, 2010
- user: "okay"
- this MeTa post
So you passed up an opportunity to increase the gross profit of MetaFilter Network Inc. by $5? I do hope someone's paycheck is garnished for this transgression!
posted by slogger at 10:00 AM on May 11, 2010
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
posted by shakespeherian at 10:05 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 10:05 AM on May 11, 2010
Are name changes actually things that can happen though?
It's really basically only for brand new accounts with zero commenting history, like someone just signed up and either typoed or had instant regret about their chosen username, is the policy we've firmed up over time.
It's such a rare thing that it had come up only a few times before and we took it as an edgecase-by-edgecase thing on those occasions that someone did have a reason to ask. I think the argument in this case was that the account had basically zero site activity, and so it was sort of consistent with the notion of not mucking up continuity, but in practice this is one of those odd situations where zero activity wasn't the same thing as zero notoriety and so the name change turns out to have some (trivial in practical terms) impact after all, namely this discussion.
I'm sort of the hyper-agitated mod when it comes to this particular policy uberniche, I've probably spent more time worrying about than necessary.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:09 AM on May 11, 2010
It's really basically only for brand new accounts with zero commenting history, like someone just signed up and either typoed or had instant regret about their chosen username, is the policy we've firmed up over time.
It's such a rare thing that it had come up only a few times before and we took it as an edgecase-by-edgecase thing on those occasions that someone did have a reason to ask. I think the argument in this case was that the account had basically zero site activity, and so it was sort of consistent with the notion of not mucking up continuity, but in practice this is one of those odd situations where zero activity wasn't the same thing as zero notoriety and so the name change turns out to have some (trivial in practical terms) impact after all, namely this discussion.
I'm sort of the hyper-agitated mod when it comes to this particular policy uberniche, I've probably spent more time worrying about than necessary.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:09 AM on May 11, 2010
like someone just signed up and either typoed
So there's still hope for goliche?
posted by Hiker at 10:12 AM on May 11, 2010
So there's still hope for goliche?
posted by Hiker at 10:12 AM on May 11, 2010
It's really basically only for brand new accounts with zero commenting history, like someone just signed up and either typoed or had instant regret about their chosen username, is the policy we've firmed up over time.
So there's zero chance that I can add another letter to my username then? Or even take one away? Because either would be better than the rubbish username that I have. OK, I'll stop whining now and swallow the bitter, bitter tears of regret.
posted by ob at 10:14 AM on May 11, 2010
So there's zero chance that I can add another letter to my username then? Or even take one away? Because either would be better than the rubbish username that I have. OK, I'll stop whining now and swallow the bitter, bitter tears of regret.
posted by ob at 10:14 AM on May 11, 2010
When the "Your Comment Is Dumb"/Carl Icahn user was originally banned the content of the profile page was also deleted. Strange that it's back now.
posted by mullacc at 10:28 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by mullacc at 10:28 AM on May 11, 2010
Profile content lives on the db but is hidden for closed accounts.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:30 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:30 AM on May 11, 2010
Now that I know the truth (that assholes can get away with a banning and come back after a year) I feel like I should push the envelope.
People who made stupid jokes that resulted in their sock puppet getting timed out can, in fact, come back years later. This is not at all the same as people being banned for cause. Some of those people can't, in fact, come back under any username.
However we also have the Brand New Day policy which means that even if you were banned for cause, if you say you'll make an effort to not be an asshole again, we'll take you at your word and let you back in. Everyone grows up. If you think this means you can be an asshole with no repercussions, you're likely doing it wrong. Or you might have to wait several years to come back.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:36 AM on May 11, 2010
People who made stupid jokes that resulted in their sock puppet getting timed out can, in fact, come back years later. This is not at all the same as people being banned for cause. Some of those people can't, in fact, come back under any username.
However we also have the Brand New Day policy which means that even if you were banned for cause, if you say you'll make an effort to not be an asshole again, we'll take you at your word and let you back in. Everyone grows up. If you think this means you can be an asshole with no repercussions, you're likely doing it wrong. Or you might have to wait several years to come back.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:36 AM on May 11, 2010
Did anyone else think of space odyssey when reading the name "Gentlemen?"
posted by biochemist at 10:50 AM on May 11, 2010
posted by biochemist at 10:50 AM on May 11, 2010
kalessin: “For too long have I worried about what MetaFilter users or mods thought of me and let it circumscribe my behavior. Now that I know the truth (that assholes can get away with a banning and come back after a year) I feel like I should push the envelope.”
For far too long I have worried about what other people or government officials thought of me and let it circumscribe my behavior. Now that I know the truth (that you can actually walk up to strangers on the street, scream obscenities in their faces, and usually get off with no more than a slap on the wrist from police) I feel like I should push the envelope.
posted by koeselitz at 11:21 AM on May 11, 2010
For far too long I have worried about what other people or government officials thought of me and let it circumscribe my behavior. Now that I know the truth (that you can actually walk up to strangers on the street, scream obscenities in their faces, and usually get off with no more than a slap on the wrist from police) I feel like I should push the envelope.
posted by koeselitz at 11:21 AM on May 11, 2010
Did someone call me? I thought I heard my name. No?
No one ever needs me.
**sulks**
posted by mob panties at 11:37 AM on May 11, 2010
No one ever needs me.
**sulks**
posted by mob panties at 11:37 AM on May 11, 2010
there's a loophole moderation policy loophole (which I am aware is almost impossible to meaningfully fix given the basic anonymity of the internet and no one knowing I'm actually a dog)
a) It's not considered a loophole if it's by design.
b) They still have tools, I believe, that help them identify when one person is trying to sign up multiple times (flags the Paypal? or the IP?). So if the user isn't brand-new-day worthy, then they'll probably get caught.
posted by inigo2 at 12:44 PM on May 11, 2010
a) It's not considered a loophole if it's by design.
b) They still have tools, I believe, that help them identify when one person is trying to sign up multiple times (flags the Paypal? or the IP?). So if the user isn't brand-new-day worthy, then they'll probably get caught.
posted by inigo2 at 12:44 PM on May 11, 2010
Fairness is a laudable goal but pursuing it to a fault can get pretty bleak. One of the reasons we're pretty consistently guidelines-not-rules here is that we believe that the rigidity of heavy codification, and the requirement to enforce that code and the cultural expectation of an focus on that enforcement, would make this place worse rather than better.
And so dealing with problems comes down instead to trying to manage a situation in context usually to find a way to nail down a working compromise, whether between two users or between a user and the site or so on. And we'll try to be as fair as possible about that approach, and to periodically re-examine policy issues and community concerns to see if there's something that's gone a little bit pear-shaped that we can tweak to help things improve a bit, that kind of thing. But we can't guarantee fairness, in no small part because no two people here are likely to completely agree about what is fair in every case.
I hear you that you feel it's unfair for you, that you're being cheated maybe, when you feel like you're making an effort to adhere to a ruleset that you see others not adhering to, but if it's not a ruleset that's explicitly part of the shared community understanding of this place and how it operates then that's not something that I think it's all that meaningful to hold against the community for disagreeing with you about. I've got personal rules I adhere to (or try to, at least) that I don't apply to others around me because they're my rules, not everybody else's, and that's probably true for everyone.
Are some of the rules you hold yourself to good things that other people not bound by them could benefit from taking on themselves? I have no doubt. But that's a personal thing, not a site thing.
So I hear you that the fact that we'll consider (as opposed to guarantee) letting someone back in to the site after being a problem in the past may contradict the rules you're holding yourself to about not being that kind of nasty or disruptive in the first place. But, you know, good for you for showing the restraint and whatnot in the first place; you have those rules or that sense of obligation because it's important to you, and I totally appreciate that. I don't want people to act crappily, I certainly don't want to get to the point of having to give them the boot and even have to consider them returning in the first place.
But that's part of how we approach this place. We're usually willing to give someone another shot. Not because we condone crappy behavior, but because we understand that nobody is perfect and sometimes someone will spend some time being really, really far from perfect but then will get their act together later on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
And so dealing with problems comes down instead to trying to manage a situation in context usually to find a way to nail down a working compromise, whether between two users or between a user and the site or so on. And we'll try to be as fair as possible about that approach, and to periodically re-examine policy issues and community concerns to see if there's something that's gone a little bit pear-shaped that we can tweak to help things improve a bit, that kind of thing. But we can't guarantee fairness, in no small part because no two people here are likely to completely agree about what is fair in every case.
I hear you that you feel it's unfair for you, that you're being cheated maybe, when you feel like you're making an effort to adhere to a ruleset that you see others not adhering to, but if it's not a ruleset that's explicitly part of the shared community understanding of this place and how it operates then that's not something that I think it's all that meaningful to hold against the community for disagreeing with you about. I've got personal rules I adhere to (or try to, at least) that I don't apply to others around me because they're my rules, not everybody else's, and that's probably true for everyone.
Are some of the rules you hold yourself to good things that other people not bound by them could benefit from taking on themselves? I have no doubt. But that's a personal thing, not a site thing.
So I hear you that the fact that we'll consider (as opposed to guarantee) letting someone back in to the site after being a problem in the past may contradict the rules you're holding yourself to about not being that kind of nasty or disruptive in the first place. But, you know, good for you for showing the restraint and whatnot in the first place; you have those rules or that sense of obligation because it's important to you, and I totally appreciate that. I don't want people to act crappily, I certainly don't want to get to the point of having to give them the boot and even have to consider them returning in the first place.
But that's part of how we approach this place. We're usually willing to give someone another shot. Not because we condone crappy behavior, but because we understand that nobody is perfect and sometimes someone will spend some time being really, really far from perfect but then will get their act together later on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:08 PM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Which loony-ass MeTa thread should I post nonsense in? I will decide based on the next comment in each thread.
posted by box at 1:40 PM on May 11, 2010
posted by box at 1:40 PM on May 11, 2010
[not this comment, the next one]
posted by shakespeherian at 1:44 PM on May 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 1:44 PM on May 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
[see previous comment]
posted by inigo2 at 2:22 PM on May 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 2:22 PM on May 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
[pwned]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:19 PM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:19 PM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
I finally realized what MetaFilter has been lacking lo these many years: Its own supervillain.
THIS ISN'T OVER!
posted by Passillododorconquail Buttonquivorybidododorbacon at 4:10 PM on May 11, 2010
THIS ISN'T OVER!
posted by Passillododorconquail Buttonquivorybidododorbacon at 4:10 PM on May 11, 2010
Fine, I award you one internet.
posted by loquacious at 4:36 PM on May 11, 2010
posted by loquacious at 4:36 PM on May 11, 2010
However we also have the Brand New Day policy
You're going to make it so we've never been spoused?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 5:15 PM on May 11, 2010
You're going to make it so we've never been spoused?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 5:15 PM on May 11, 2010
"I hate it when we both have goatees"
I'm sorry, I totally read that as goatses.
posted by klangklangston at 6:32 PM on May 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry, I totally read that as goatses.
posted by klangklangston at 6:32 PM on May 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
"So you passed up an opportunity to increase the gross profit of MetaFilter Network Inc. by $5? I do hope someone's paycheck is garnished for this transgression!"
Matt's gonna set them down for a stern discussion of third quarter earnings, no doubt.
"Look, if you're going to let someone come back just by changing their username, I'm really gonna need you push the Astro Zombie ordinal sockspuppets just to keep Fiona's Escalade fueled."
posted by klangklangston at 6:48 PM on May 11, 2010
Matt's gonna set them down for a stern discussion of third quarter earnings, no doubt.
"Look, if you're going to let someone come back just by changing their username, I'm really gonna need you push the Astro Zombie ordinal sockspuppets just to keep Fiona's Escalade fueled."
posted by klangklangston at 6:48 PM on May 11, 2010
Metafilter actually loses a bit of money with each sockpuppet, due to moderator overhead. Luckily, they make it up in volume.
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:00 PM on May 11, 2010
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:00 PM on May 11, 2010
Apparently nothing much is ever accomplished in Bizarro World.
What you am mean to say is that everything is always accomplished in Bizarro World.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:43 PM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
What you am mean to say is that everything is always accomplished in Bizarro World.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:43 PM on May 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
which further boils down to me getting unequal treatment for unequal behavior.
This is really your battle with you. We'd like you to continue to participate on the site. We've been pretty explicit about how the site works. There are users who operate more in line with the site's general ethos and users who interact less in line with the site's general ethos and those different approaches have different ups and downs from people's personal perspectives both in how they're treated by the community and how they're treated by the mods.
That said, it's not math. The biggest set of decisions that people have to make have much more to do with their own opinions of the facts as stated above. Jerks can apologize and come back, that's a fact. There are a lot of other mitigating factors that go around that, however. Sometimes they can't come back with their same username. Sometimes they can't come back at all. Sometimes they refuse to apologize or whatever the terms are and then they can't come back. If you don't fall into the "banned jerk" category, those are all calculations you don't have to personally make, though your opinions about those things obviously may have some sort of impact into how you decide you want to interact here.
We strongly believe that there's no such way to treat people absolutely equally, so we strive to be fair and attempt to be consistent. From my vantage point I think we do okay here. However, if your personal ethical system finds this problematic, the open-endedness of this, or the fact that we devote more site resources to more problematic users, then you're going to have to find some way to make peace with that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:31 AM on May 12, 2010
This is really your battle with you. We'd like you to continue to participate on the site. We've been pretty explicit about how the site works. There are users who operate more in line with the site's general ethos and users who interact less in line with the site's general ethos and those different approaches have different ups and downs from people's personal perspectives both in how they're treated by the community and how they're treated by the mods.
That said, it's not math. The biggest set of decisions that people have to make have much more to do with their own opinions of the facts as stated above. Jerks can apologize and come back, that's a fact. There are a lot of other mitigating factors that go around that, however. Sometimes they can't come back with their same username. Sometimes they can't come back at all. Sometimes they refuse to apologize or whatever the terms are and then they can't come back. If you don't fall into the "banned jerk" category, those are all calculations you don't have to personally make, though your opinions about those things obviously may have some sort of impact into how you decide you want to interact here.
We strongly believe that there's no such way to treat people absolutely equally, so we strive to be fair and attempt to be consistent. From my vantage point I think we do okay here. However, if your personal ethical system finds this problematic, the open-endedness of this, or the fact that we devote more site resources to more problematic users, then you're going to have to find some way to make peace with that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:31 AM on May 12, 2010
All that said, despite your kudos which imply appreciation, it's still hard to see dicks get off simply for saying apologies. I understand that in order to avoid having bedlam you have to trust that folks like me will stay near their best or good behavior and only manage the edge cases, and I understand why pragmatism boils down to essentially different rules for different cases, which further boils down to me getting unequal treatment for unequal behavior.
Are you absolutely itching to be a jerk and so you're jealous at other people's jerkery? I don't know about you personally, but I feel like I do get rewarded around here for not being a jerk. (And I'm pretty pleased with the concept of forgiveness being an element of human interaction. Everyone needs it sometimes, y'know?)
The only thing that some people are "getting away with" is being allowed to exist on this site to type comments and hit post. They get judged based on their behavior like everyone else, regardless of their user name.
posted by desuetude at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Are you absolutely itching to be a jerk and so you're jealous at other people's jerkery? I don't know about you personally, but I feel like I do get rewarded around here for not being a jerk. (And I'm pretty pleased with the concept of forgiveness being an element of human interaction. Everyone needs it sometimes, y'know?)
The only thing that some people are "getting away with" is being allowed to exist on this site to type comments and hit post. They get judged based on their behavior like everyone else, regardless of their user name.
posted by desuetude at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of the things I appreciate most about MetaFilter is that the guidelines > rules environment. The mods try to moderate based on virtue, not an algorithm or protocol. This requires them to exercise wisdom and discretion, which can be dicey because they get it wrong sometimes, but it also permits them to exercise wisdom and discretion, which is awesome, because they get it right most of the time.
The problem with virtue-based systems is that there are no--or at least very few--hard and fast, objective rules, and those who bristle under authority systems will always find that objectionable. But the benefit is that when the authorities are virtuous, as ours do their best to be, things work out better for everyone.
posted by valkyryn at 1:16 PM on May 12, 2010
The problem with virtue-based systems is that there are no--or at least very few--hard and fast, objective rules, and those who bristle under authority systems will always find that objectionable. But the benefit is that when the authorities are virtuous, as ours do their best to be, things work out better for everyone.
posted by valkyryn at 1:16 PM on May 12, 2010
I'm upgrading my ministerial license to full ordination in a few weeks and I think it'd be particularly relevant for me to change my name to Reverend_Balrog, given the company of individuals like Pater_Alethias and Father_Dagon. Please let me know if this would be possible.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:33 PM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:33 PM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also Pope Guilty.
posted by box at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Damn, I always read that as Peter_Alethias.
posted by Think_Long at 1:48 PM on May 12, 2010
posted by Think_Long at 1:48 PM on May 12, 2010
Nah, I'm not itching to be a dick. I just don't like seeing or feeling like other people are getting off lightly for being a dick. It's a pretty subtle difference, I know, but it does get my dander up.
Well, that's what I thought. Me neither.
But hey, who says dickish people are getting off lightly? They're getting more people than ever would IRL to have the opportunity to find them dickish, in a place that allows us to tell them straight up that they're being dickish. Not much of a reward, eh?
posted by desuetude at 2:28 PM on May 12, 2010
Well, that's what I thought. Me neither.
But hey, who says dickish people are getting off lightly? They're getting more people than ever would IRL to have the opportunity to find them dickish, in a place that allows us to tell them straight up that they're being dickish. Not much of a reward, eh?
posted by desuetude at 2:28 PM on May 12, 2010
Apparently nothing much is ever accomplished in Bizarro World.
One of my favorite running gags in Sluggy Freelance was the Dimension of Pain, a sort of Hell Lite. They had lots of evil plans that would fall afoul of their own bureaucratic inefficiencies, but whenever the inefficiencies were pointed out, everyone would just say, with approval, "How evil."
posted by Zed at 3:23 PM on May 12, 2010
One of my favorite running gags in Sluggy Freelance was the Dimension of Pain, a sort of Hell Lite. They had lots of evil plans that would fall afoul of their own bureaucratic inefficiencies, but whenever the inefficiencies were pointed out, everyone would just say, with approval, "How evil."
posted by Zed at 3:23 PM on May 12, 2010
I finally realized what MetaFilter has been lacking lo these many years: Its own supervillain.
Yeah, what did happen to Miguel Cardoso?
posted by norm at 11:06 AM on May 13, 2010
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posted by Smart Dalek at 5:25 AM on May 11, 2010