Wait, now I'm just confused. You didn't say anything controversial in that thread. If I had to guess, I would say this is another fight between delmoi and people who don't like Google as much as him (though I could be wrong). Why did you start this thread?1) None of my substantive comments weren't deleted. Only a one-line joke in response to one of Artw's comments was removed (I posted my deleted comment above). I believe I believe I only posted three comments total in that thread.
I agree with seanyboy. Blazecock making FPPs about Google at this point should be pretty widely recognized for the axe-grinding it is and deleted.Yeah, to be honest -- I almost thought about making a MeTa about it. My problem was the framing of the post, the moral panic bullshit, right out of Rupert Murdock's highest profile mouthpiece (right after the failure of sopa, which he blamed on "Obama's silicon valley paymasters" -- meaning google. The guy loathes Google, and he rags on them constantly, calling them pirates, etc.).
Wouldn't object in the slightest.There are greasemonkey killfiles out there. Anyway, I actually agree with BP on Obama. So he doesn't really bother me that much. It's true I have a lot of irrational antipathy for Apple, but I don't take it personally if people like them.
What are you talking about? Your comment is right here.Hahah, okay obviously something is wrong with me. That was a totally different thread, I think I got confused because it was both at the end of the thread, and a reply to Artw about Google. It was about music piracy rather then drugs.
TBH that sounds a lot like you've ceded control to anyone willing to abuse the flag system. Which, it seems, is Blazecock and friends.The thing is: You need to relax. Comments come and comments go. It's not the end of the world if they're deleted. And I'm sure BP's comments collect plenty of flags.
BP's Apple-thing is really off-putting. He's in every thread that involves Apple; and, worse, when it's just implicit in the form of it being about one of Apple's presumed competitors. And he's not just in the thread, but he's invariably all over the thread, often dominating it. And his positions and comments are, at this point, so highly predictable I imagine that many people here could just write them on his behalf.Yeah there was some eyerolling earlier in the thread. What I don't get is, what he's doing is actually bad for apple on the balance. Getting all flighty with people over Apple is just going to turn people off of Apple. They're not going to think "Gosh, maybe I was wrong: I totally am an idiot so I'm going to ditch my PC and get an iPAD!" Even if they're just reading the thread, it's not going to appeal to people if Apple fans seem so angry.
It's like he's constantly auditioning to be Apple's PR rep.Like I said -- If he was he's doing a terrible job. By far I think he turns more people off of Apple then he convinces to buy Apple products.
He treats Apple and Apple users as if they're a repressed minority, which you know, might have been slightly arguable in 1994.From some of his comments, it seems like he's been an Apple, uh, enthusiast since then. There was a thread about USB where he claimed that Apple lead the way, and he knew a lot of details about how PC's implementation sucked (no bios support for USB keyboards was the big problem, apparently).
The solution is clear, delmoi. Intend to be a bigger dick, and you will never have to wonder.That's what reddit is for!
I don't know how doable this would be, but what would help these threads is the deletion of any conspiracy theory comments. Comments of the nature, "I bet X is actually behind the spread of this information without any actual backup." While I admit I find them hilarious, I prefer to see them on freerepublic.com, etc. rather than here.Remember Hillary Clinton's terrible campaign chief, Mark Penn? Microsoft hired his company to bash google (And apparently Eric Schmidt's former mistress, which I didn't know until I clicked that link) Facebook has also engaged in anti-google smear campaigns. If Apple was doing the same thing, no one would know, since they actually know how to keep secrets. At the same time, they obviously don't need too - they have an army of fanboys doing it for free.
Blazecock Pileon is one of a number of people on the site who can be a real pain in the butt at times despite generally being a pretty good contributor the rest of the time. It's not entirely a fixable problem, unfortunately, but from the mod end we try to talk to folks when there's recurring problems and encourage them to find some way to keep the focus on the good contributions and try to avoid the negative stuff.Which is why I said it would be nice if they would leave each other the hell alone.
I've talked a little to BP about some specific stuff recently because I agree that there's some frustrating instincts he shows sometimes in the way he engages in arguments with other folks. But almost none of this stuff occurs in a vacuum, and I've talked to a couple other people as well for varying related reasons. In general I'd like to see a lot less of the multiplex negative interactions that go on with some small groups of mefites who for whatever reasons historical or temperamental or whatever have trouble not getting bitey or dismissive with each other. At this point I've asked a few different pairs of folks to pretty much pretend one another don't exist if that's what it takes to avoid rehashes of that stuff. It's working okay, not perfect but at least progress.
At the end of the day, I think it's more useful to try and either focus on making this place better or to try to be as specific and constructive as possible when you need to make a community discussion out of someone else's behavior. This callout was pretty poorly footed in that respect, yeah, which makes it harder to have a discussion that's not pretty distracted by the details of the metatalk post itself.
I thought they were sort of accepted as part of site norms when they mean, "This MeTa is beneath substantive comment," rather than, "Hey, guys, let's not get so upset! Recipe time!!" (I should admit here that I like the former type of MeTa noise and not the latter.) -- palliserIt used to be people could yell and scream at eachother, and there were plenty of mealtdowns. The mods put a stop to that, probably a good idea. The derails were a way to avoid that, I think. But if they're gone then we don't need derails.
Actually, you said "Heavens to Betsy! *Clutches Perls*" – which was much funnier, I thought. Sad to find out it wasn't intentional. Heh. -- koeselitzHahah. I actually wrote 'perls' when re-writing the comment, then corrected it.
Whether or not BP is a terrible person is sort of a side issue, and only of academic interest as nothing will ever be done about him. -- ArtwHe posts annoying comments on some topics. Get over it.
BP takes a lot of shit, and yet somehow delmoi gets to slide through with very little complaint. Take almost any Apple thread, search for delmoi, and the chances are you're going to find 20 or more comments, almost to the one being critical of Apple.Uh yeah, obviously I disagree. Feel free to link to an example of an intellectually dishonest comment I've made about Apple. I also said antipathy, not hate.
He's already admitted his hate of Apple is irrational. It's obsessive, and often intellectually dishonest, his comments sometimes flying in the face of all evidence. I'm guessing his number of comments critical of Apple reaches into the thousands, easily. -- justgary
I see Apple critics, having been wrong for the past 10 years as they've waited for Apple to fall, as being much more bitter. Honestly, delmoi, even you should be able to admit that there's a lot of tech writers, pundits, fans that can't wait for Apple to topple from the top. Perspective.Are you kidding? It's great! Hating apple is chic now! I was just ahead of my time! And honestly I don't really care that much anymore. Like I said, I view it is as equivalent to talk about sports teams or something. Most redsox fans (at least the well adjusted ones) aren't going to be bitter if the Yankees win.
Fact remains that Apple is beating everyone, including the neckbeards, with best-of-class hardware and software that just works, has been doing for since the first iPhone, and people who use it and develop for it know this fact. Sorry.And I guess that it seems like just as rational and obvious a fact to Artw that nobody could get away with behaving like BP without exceptional protection. Everyone's rational, everyone's right.
furiousxgeorge: Having seen the comment, I do find it reasonable.In that last comment, jessamyn goes on to explain that the comment was off-topic, but the sentence above is (if I interpret rightly) her explanation of why the comment was racist.
jessamyn: It was a creepy racist comment [...]
furiousxgeorge: How is it racist to point out a culture has problems with corporal punishment?
jessamyn: Talking about how your daughter is going to be working for the Chinese "when they come over here" and start requiring servants and how she'll be coming home "with red stripes across their behinds" was over the line and not okay.
All too true. When the Chinese start coming over to enjoy their property, they'll required personal servants, the only station for which our education system is effectively preparing the kids. American parents won't like having their daughters come home from work with red stripes across their behinds because they couldn't understand what the matriarch of the house wanted them to do. (The Chinese still favor corporal punishment.)And to be totally clear, my objection is a lot less about the corporal punishment part than the strong implication that the Chinese are coming to take over America and we'll all be their servants, which is what I meant above by "yellow peril." It's creepy, it's racist as hell, and had not a damn thing to do with the thread (and only had to do with the idea that Americans should learn to speak a language spoken by a very large percentage of the world if you assume that learning to speak a language that isn't English = putting yourself in a subservient position.)
If you're trying to have a conversation with the mods, who presumably know what this is about, then you could just use the contact form and leave the rest of us out of this.
posted by Dasein at 9:37 AM on January 27, 2012 [22 favorites]