FPP redirect for recent developments of hot topics July 13, 2013 9:45 PM Subscribe
for topics where there is a recent development, yet mods see fit to delete posts because "there's an open thread" could that thread be bumped to the front page?
the zimmerman verdict case is a good example. the vast majority of people would not be able to find what people on metafilter think about this, because all new posts about it are being deleted and people are directed to the 2+ week old thread. it would actually reduce mod work because they wouldn't have to keep deleting posts. if you go to the front page most would think that people on metafilter have nothing to say about it.
the "ticking along just fine" doesn't make sense. some people are posting to it. but, i suspect right now many people are going to the metafilter main page, see that there is no post on the subject, and assuming metafilter has nothing to say about it. you have no idea what people are not saying because you can't observe it.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:03 PM on July 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:03 PM on July 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
to add: i don't see how the fact that some people can find the older thread is an argument against putting it near the top of the front page so that people can know the appropriate place to talk about this.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:07 PM on July 13, 2013
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:07 PM on July 13, 2013
This might be the thread. At least, it's an open thread on the topic.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:08 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 10:08 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
The existing one is 16 days old, and from last month. I understand this may not be earth shaking in the world of some folks, but it is in mine. The first post was deleted for being too thin. Mine was deleted, likely because I didn't bother dancing around what the issue is in the Zimmerman case - race. I linked a very interesting and similar case (I don't know how much more striking the similarities can be) and the Zimmerman verdict.
If new posts are going to be deleted because they aren't the perfect mix of multiple links and matter-of-fact commentary, okay, but I can't really see how a 16-day old thread from last month is considered a reasonable option.
I don't have that deleted posts add-on installed. How many attempted posts have been deleted? I know there are at least two.
I realize you all have a tough job, and I am always amazed at how well you do it. That said, if you know what you're looking for as far as posts, I am requesting that a moderator make the post. This is a huge case, a huge ruling, the president of the United States personally commented on the case, the NAACP is petitioning to get the Justice Department to charge Zimmerman with civil rights violations - please one of the mods, make a post.
posted by cashman at 10:09 PM on July 13, 2013 [14 favorites]
If new posts are going to be deleted because they aren't the perfect mix of multiple links and matter-of-fact commentary, okay, but I can't really see how a 16-day old thread from last month is considered a reasonable option.
I don't have that deleted posts add-on installed. How many attempted posts have been deleted? I know there are at least two.
I realize you all have a tough job, and I am always amazed at how well you do it. That said, if you know what you're looking for as far as posts, I am requesting that a moderator make the post. This is a huge case, a huge ruling, the president of the United States personally commented on the case, the NAACP is petitioning to get the Justice Department to charge Zimmerman with civil rights violations - please one of the mods, make a post.
posted by cashman at 10:09 PM on July 13, 2013 [14 favorites]
the vast majority of people would not be able to find what people on metafilter think about this
And this is relevant to Metafilter why?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:16 PM on July 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
And this is relevant to Metafilter why?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:16 PM on July 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
And this is relevant to Metafilter why?
presumably, people who post to metafilter want others to read their comments, otherwise they would not post to metafilter. and, presumably, they also want people who do not have metafilter accounts to read what they have to say. in that sense it's relevant to metafilter.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:20 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
presumably, people who post to metafilter want others to read their comments, otherwise they would not post to metafilter. and, presumably, they also want people who do not have metafilter accounts to read what they have to say. in that sense it's relevant to metafilter.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:20 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
if someone makes a good post the mods won't delete it. until a good post is made people will be directed to the open thread. breaking news or not, this is the way it always works. the mods actually seem to give some leeway on breaking news by allowing multiple active threads.
posted by nadawi at 10:20 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:20 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
Two posts have been deleted. A good Metafilter post will not be deleted, but we aren't suspending the standards because of this verdict. I understand that you guys feel frustrated, but to create a mechanism so that the front page will be stacked with old posts that have new developments isn't something we're considering, and a new post still needs to be a good Mefi post, not a headline link to a news article or an outragefilter/OP-editorialized thing.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:21 PM on July 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 10:21 PM on July 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
i'm not calling for the front page to be stacked with old posts that have new developments, but with something like this, putting it up for 24 hours, or putting it in the stack as a "new" post to be moved down as other new ones are added, it could help many people get to the appropriate post, and make the job of mods easier by reducing the number of bad FPPs.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:26 PM on July 13, 2013
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:26 PM on July 13, 2013
cupcake1337: "but, i suspect right now many people are going to the metafilter main page, see that there is no post on the subject, and assuming metafilter has nothing to say about it.
Metafilter has nothing to say about it. Metafilter is not required to say things at events that happen. Metafilter is not a site for discussion about important things. Metafilter is a site where people can post good and interesting links from the Internet. I suspect you're missing this subtle but essential characteristic of this community.
cashman: "I understand this may not be earth shaking in the world of some folks, but it is in mine."
You know what's earth shaking in my world? The dismissal of ibn Rushd from the court of the third Almohad Caliph. But I am not going to make a post that consists of a link to a Wikipedia page. In fact, I'm not going to post about it until I discover some good links about it that will be interesting or useful to people.
I understand that people are in a rush to talk about a thing that happened. I understand that there are a number of people who think Metafilter is just a conversation website. That's fine. But even if you just want that out of it, the Metafilter model of at least waiting until someone can gather a good collection of worthwhile links is a good one. The world will not end if we wait a few more hours for that to happen.
posted by koeselitz at 10:27 PM on July 13, 2013 [34 favorites]
Metafilter has nothing to say about it. Metafilter is not required to say things at events that happen. Metafilter is not a site for discussion about important things. Metafilter is a site where people can post good and interesting links from the Internet. I suspect you're missing this subtle but essential characteristic of this community.
cashman: "I understand this may not be earth shaking in the world of some folks, but it is in mine."
You know what's earth shaking in my world? The dismissal of ibn Rushd from the court of the third Almohad Caliph. But I am not going to make a post that consists of a link to a Wikipedia page. In fact, I'm not going to post about it until I discover some good links about it that will be interesting or useful to people.
I understand that people are in a rush to talk about a thing that happened. I understand that there are a number of people who think Metafilter is just a conversation website. That's fine. But even if you just want that out of it, the Metafilter model of at least waiting until someone can gather a good collection of worthwhile links is a good one. The world will not end if we wait a few more hours for that to happen.
posted by koeselitz at 10:27 PM on July 13, 2013 [34 favorites]
i suspect right now many people are going to the metafilter main page, see that there is no post on the subject, and assuming metafilter has nothing to say about it.
Personally, I went to the front page, saw nothing about it, was a little surprised but then decided there was probably another thread on it still open, searched for "trayvon martin," found the existing thread, and read all 600+ comments of it.
I would imagine that other people who count on MeFi as one of their main news sources are capable of doing the same.
posted by naoko at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
Personally, I went to the front page, saw nothing about it, was a little surprised but then decided there was probably another thread on it still open, searched for "trayvon martin," found the existing thread, and read all 600+ comments of it.
I would imagine that other people who count on MeFi as one of their main news sources are capable of doing the same.
posted by naoko at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
And this is relevant to Metafilter why?
well, sorry, let me amend that to "people who have paid $5 to post on Metafilter." i thought the qualification was obvious, but apparently not.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2013
well, sorry, let me amend that to "people who have paid $5 to post on Metafilter." i thought the qualification was obvious, but apparently not.
posted by cupcake1337 at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2013
and make the job of mods easier
You know what else would make the job of mods easier?
posted by ericost at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
You know what else would make the job of mods easier?
posted by ericost at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
cupcake1337: "... but with something like this..."
The thing is that Metafilter isn't for "something like this." It's not designed or built as a site for conversation about current events. Yes, we do that some here, but the only way that that can be made sustainable is if we step back and have some patience and let the conversations happen of themselves, when (and only when) there are good starting points to work from.
I mean - if we start "bumping" posts because we believe they're important, then we'd suddenly have to rank things by importance. And that would be a mistake, because we naturally disagree on importance.
Most of all, the key issue here is that Metafilter really isn't supposed to work this way. We don't propose topics of conversation and then discuss them; we comment on worthwhile links. This is the best way to facilitate conversation, because unfocused conversation is messy and tends away from thoughtfulness and incisiveness. People think Reddit is kind of a mess because of trolls, and that's part of it, but the bigger problem (I think) is that, while most Redditors are really awesome and intelligent people, the common format there of "here's a subject and one thin link, everybody talk about it" doesn't tend to produce focused conversations at all.
posted by koeselitz at 10:33 PM on July 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
The thing is that Metafilter isn't for "something like this." It's not designed or built as a site for conversation about current events. Yes, we do that some here, but the only way that that can be made sustainable is if we step back and have some patience and let the conversations happen of themselves, when (and only when) there are good starting points to work from.
I mean - if we start "bumping" posts because we believe they're important, then we'd suddenly have to rank things by importance. And that would be a mistake, because we naturally disagree on importance.
Most of all, the key issue here is that Metafilter really isn't supposed to work this way. We don't propose topics of conversation and then discuss them; we comment on worthwhile links. This is the best way to facilitate conversation, because unfocused conversation is messy and tends away from thoughtfulness and incisiveness. People think Reddit is kind of a mess because of trolls, and that's part of it, but the bigger problem (I think) is that, while most Redditors are really awesome and intelligent people, the common format there of "here's a subject and one thin link, everybody talk about it" doesn't tend to produce focused conversations at all.
posted by koeselitz at 10:33 PM on July 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
The open thread was also about Rachel Jeantel, and the race issues around criticism of her. It wasn't a thread about Trayvon or about Zimmerman. I just don't think the first post (not mine) should have been deleted, saying that was an open thread on this.
I think that post should be reinstated. Cory Monteith (Glee) just died and it'll probably be the same thing - a link to a news site. And it'll stand.
I understand that people are in a rush to talk about a thing that happened.
It's 3 hours later. I don't think that's really being in a rush. I mean we have posts on here linking to cartoons. I think that bbc article was enough for a post. My first post about this case back in March 2012 was deleted, and it was completely without any comment on my part. It had multiple links, and the subject was obviously newsworthy. I guess I ... well I'm not sure how I feel about this, but it isn't great.
posted by cashman at 10:42 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
I think that post should be reinstated. Cory Monteith (Glee) just died and it'll probably be the same thing - a link to a news site. And it'll stand.
I understand that people are in a rush to talk about a thing that happened.
It's 3 hours later. I don't think that's really being in a rush. I mean we have posts on here linking to cartoons. I think that bbc article was enough for a post. My first post about this case back in March 2012 was deleted, and it was completely without any comment on my part. It had multiple links, and the subject was obviously newsworthy. I guess I ... well I'm not sure how I feel about this, but it isn't great.
posted by cashman at 10:42 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
Maybe if I don't post in a new Zimmerman thread people will forget they hate me.
posted by Justinian at 10:45 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:45 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
3 hours is a very short amount of time. if you want to discuss it in a new post, make a good one.
posted by nadawi at 10:48 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:48 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
assuming metafilter has nothing to say about it
You would also assume that if you read the comments in the deleted threads. The currently open thread actually has some real discussion (some.)
posted by michaelh at 10:50 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
You would also assume that if you read the comments in the deleted threads. The currently open thread actually has some real discussion (some.)
posted by michaelh at 10:50 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I mean - the way I think about it is this. I went to a school that was based entirely on discussion classes. I thought it was fantastic; it led to a development of conversation that I didn't even know was possible, and it opened my eyes to a lot of amazing things about human interaction. But the essential thing is that this school chose to focus solely on primary texts and books and novels as starting points for conversations; we talked about everything from Homer to Shakespeare to Plato to Heidegger to Einstein, but always with a text.
I remember I went to a few discussions people tried to put together outside of class where we were just given a subject and given free rein to talk about it. Somewhat surprisingly to me, the result was invariably utter failure. People talked about all kinds of things without having anything concrete to return to; since the conversation wasn't defined, any and every even remotely related avenue was something that could and should be discussed, so we always just ended up having a bunch of people talking past each other and not actually conversing.
I think that's one reason the Metafilter model works so well; it really focuses conversations. We tend to worry about derails in this negative way, as though it's just a rule to avoid breaking, but avoiding derails and distractions is really a positive thing for conversations because it focuses them and forces people to respond to each other and actually hash things out. Our insistence on comprehensive, quality starting points means that we start with a good definition of what the conversation can be about, and a trajectory to start us off even if we decide to change course later on.
Metafilter is great for a lot of reasons, and one of those reasons is that there's a preponderance of really intelligent people here (whom I am very happy to know). But I really believe that those intelligent people are attracted to this place and end up staying because the conversations here tend to be good. And, in turn, those conversations are good because the model we have forces us to home in on the essential things in what we're talking about.
cashman: "It's 3 hours later. I don't think that's really being in a rush."
Really? That still seems really hasty to me. I was thinking it would be fine if we waited maybe three or four days to post on something like this. I fact, I think your original post in March is a good example of that. jessamyn deleted it - and I believe rightly so - because, at that moment, it was just a shitty thing that happened in a country where shitty things are happening every day. The Trayvon Martin case became a story because the nation latched onto it, and it became a focus of a lot of different discussions from a lot of different quarters. It's a lot more interesting and worthwhile to talk about it from that context, I think.
"It had multiple links, and the subject was obviously newsworthy."
Those really aren't very good criteria for the quality of a post. Are they? Newsworthiness clearly isn't an important dimension, and neither is multiple links.
posted by koeselitz at 10:51 PM on July 13, 2013 [15 favorites]
I remember I went to a few discussions people tried to put together outside of class where we were just given a subject and given free rein to talk about it. Somewhat surprisingly to me, the result was invariably utter failure. People talked about all kinds of things without having anything concrete to return to; since the conversation wasn't defined, any and every even remotely related avenue was something that could and should be discussed, so we always just ended up having a bunch of people talking past each other and not actually conversing.
I think that's one reason the Metafilter model works so well; it really focuses conversations. We tend to worry about derails in this negative way, as though it's just a rule to avoid breaking, but avoiding derails and distractions is really a positive thing for conversations because it focuses them and forces people to respond to each other and actually hash things out. Our insistence on comprehensive, quality starting points means that we start with a good definition of what the conversation can be about, and a trajectory to start us off even if we decide to change course later on.
Metafilter is great for a lot of reasons, and one of those reasons is that there's a preponderance of really intelligent people here (whom I am very happy to know). But I really believe that those intelligent people are attracted to this place and end up staying because the conversations here tend to be good. And, in turn, those conversations are good because the model we have forces us to home in on the essential things in what we're talking about.
cashman: "It's 3 hours later. I don't think that's really being in a rush."
Really? That still seems really hasty to me. I was thinking it would be fine if we waited maybe three or four days to post on something like this. I fact, I think your original post in March is a good example of that. jessamyn deleted it - and I believe rightly so - because, at that moment, it was just a shitty thing that happened in a country where shitty things are happening every day. The Trayvon Martin case became a story because the nation latched onto it, and it became a focus of a lot of different discussions from a lot of different quarters. It's a lot more interesting and worthwhile to talk about it from that context, I think.
"It had multiple links, and the subject was obviously newsworthy."
Those really aren't very good criteria for the quality of a post. Are they? Newsworthiness clearly isn't an important dimension, and neither is multiple links.
posted by koeselitz at 10:51 PM on July 13, 2013 [15 favorites]
So when does a thread with a specific topic ,in this case a thread about a letter, become a catchall thread. Really, verdict talk is a derail. In this case its ok as the post is 16 days old, but what if it had been yesterday and people were still talking the about intended topic.
In times of crisis, I usually go find out what Ja Rule has to say and he said #fuckthesystem.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:55 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
In times of crisis, I usually go find out what Ja Rule has to say and he said #fuckthesystem.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:55 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I too was disappointed when I didn't find the discussion I expected on the homepage. But, I believe there's a mefi poster out there who will do a post that gives us all thought about this whole situation. One that is new, informative, and discussion worthy. Because we can all continue to argue the same things over and over, I however would rather be exposed to something new.
posted by one4themoment at 10:55 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by one4themoment at 10:55 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Ad hominem: "In times of crisis, I usually go find out what Ja Rule has to say and he said #fuckthesystem."
Is it a derail if I say he's a misogynist?
posted by koeselitz at 11:00 PM on July 13, 2013
Is it a derail if I say he's a misogynist?
posted by koeselitz at 11:00 PM on July 13, 2013
I've made 171 posts. I don't need a lecture on how to make a good one, please stop that.
I understand that the matter-of-fact nature is smiled upon. Some of us are questioning dancing around that though.
"It's not a good post for metafilter" is the reason here, but it makes "us" look bad, and probably rightfully. You can have conversations around here on lots of things the community is familiar with. A single line newsfilter post about Steve Jobs having cancer while there is an open Apple thread would not get deleted while saying 'there's already an open thread'. It is the lack of understanding of the context around these cases by most but not all of the metafilter population that makes issues and discussions that are important and readily apparent to many of us look like "just a shitty thing" to what probably is the majority here.
But lets sit and wait for the perfect post on the George Zimmerman verdict. One that doesn't mention race, and isn't singularly focused on the verdict itself. Something mystical that elevates us above having to really experience the grief and hurt black America feels at watching yet another dead black male killed ultimately because he "fit the description".
posted by cashman at 11:00 PM on July 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
I understand that the matter-of-fact nature is smiled upon. Some of us are questioning dancing around that though.
"It's not a good post for metafilter" is the reason here, but it makes "us" look bad, and probably rightfully. You can have conversations around here on lots of things the community is familiar with. A single line newsfilter post about Steve Jobs having cancer while there is an open Apple thread would not get deleted while saying 'there's already an open thread'. It is the lack of understanding of the context around these cases by most but not all of the metafilter population that makes issues and discussions that are important and readily apparent to many of us look like "just a shitty thing" to what probably is the majority here.
But lets sit and wait for the perfect post on the George Zimmerman verdict. One that doesn't mention race, and isn't singularly focused on the verdict itself. Something mystical that elevates us above having to really experience the grief and hurt black America feels at watching yet another dead black male killed ultimately because he "fit the description".
posted by cashman at 11:00 PM on July 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
not a headline link to a news article or an outragefilter/OP-editorialized thing.
Even the deletion reason on one of the FPPs was editorialized, calling the verdict a "terrible thing." I don't think it's a terrible thing.
posted by John Cohen at 11:02 PM on July 13, 2013
Even the deletion reason on one of the FPPs was editorialized, calling the verdict a "terrible thing." I don't think it's a terrible thing.
posted by John Cohen at 11:02 PM on July 13, 2013
cashman - How is this not just an angry stunt post? You quoted the deletion reason from your previously-deleted post as the title, and you put a link to it in the "previously."
posted by koeselitz at 11:13 PM on July 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 11:13 PM on July 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
The current FPP is about "How White Supremacy led to the aquital [sic] of George Zimmerman." which I think is the best possible framing of the verdict!
posted by Justinian at 11:30 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 11:30 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Whoops that didn't last long.
posted by Justinian at 11:33 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 11:33 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well that was a crap FPP. Good on the deletion.
posted by iamabot at 11:35 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by iamabot at 11:35 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I deleted. It got a huge pile of flags immediately, and was presented for maximum rage effect. There will a post on this, but this wasn't the one.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:36 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 11:36 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well that was fucking bullshit.
Yes, all posts on this subject are going to be "outragefilter" - the entire case was outrageous. Stop pandering to racists.
posted by Artw at 11:36 PM on July 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
Yes, all posts on this subject are going to be "outragefilter" - the entire case was outrageous. Stop pandering to racists.
posted by Artw at 11:36 PM on July 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
Yeah I did. Anger does not mean it's a stunt post. It was a terrible thing from the moment it happened, leading up to yesterday's verdict. That was the message. From coast to coast, from years ago to today, from then to now, being a black male in America is a scary proposition. Our lives are worth less than everyone else's because of the way we look.
But yeah, the white supremacy angle. Maybe that one will stand. Nope huh?
3 posts up, 3 posts down. Hahaha! This is a horrible thing, and unfortunately it does have something to do with white supremacy as it exists in America and the world. These issues are there, whether you're familiar with them or not. I was only half way through the first link though.
Anyway, this is why I would hope a mod would just make the post.
Yes, all posts on this subject are going to be "outragefilter" - the entire case was outrageous. Stop pandering to racists.
Yep.
posted by cashman at 11:37 PM on July 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
But yeah, the white supremacy angle. Maybe that one will stand. Nope huh?
3 posts up, 3 posts down. Hahaha! This is a horrible thing, and unfortunately it does have something to do with white supremacy as it exists in America and the world. These issues are there, whether you're familiar with them or not. I was only half way through the first link though.
Anyway, this is why I would hope a mod would just make the post.
Yes, all posts on this subject are going to be "outragefilter" - the entire case was outrageous. Stop pandering to racists.
Yep.
posted by cashman at 11:37 PM on July 13, 2013 [8 favorites]
I had hope for that one.
And it's gone.
We going to do this all night? Playing guessing games what the mods want to see?
Is it a derail if I say he's a misogynist?
Nah go for it, I won't defend Ja Rule, he's kinda a dick, thinks gays are ruining the country.He just got out of jail, did 2 years for weapons possession.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:39 PM on July 13, 2013
And it's gone.
We going to do this all night? Playing guessing games what the mods want to see?
Is it a derail if I say he's a misogynist?
Nah go for it, I won't defend Ja Rule, he's kinda a dick, thinks gays are ruining the country.He just got out of jail, did 2 years for weapons possession.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:39 PM on July 13, 2013
I feel sorry for the mods who have to spend the rest of the weekend playing whack-a-mole on poorly framed posts.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:39 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:39 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
I don't think it's a terrible thing
somebody pay attention to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by ominous_paws at 11:43 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
somebody pay attention to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
posted by ominous_paws at 11:43 PM on July 13, 2013 [7 favorites]
Poorly framed, lazy framed. You want to put together a good post outlining where you think there was overt racism and a discussion to be had it's likely going to take you more than a sentence and 3 links. You want to be passionate about it, put more than 30 seconds in to the framing of your post.
posted by iamabot at 11:43 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by iamabot at 11:43 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Artw: "Stop pandering to racists."
How am I a racist, exactly?
posted by koeselitz at 11:44 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
How am I a racist, exactly?
posted by koeselitz at 11:44 PM on July 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
For the Zimmerman thread specifically, I expect someone will put together a solid post soon enough
Or maybe many of us will tire of taking time to post to threads here, only to have them deleted.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:47 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Or maybe many of us will tire of taking time to post to threads here, only to have them deleted.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:47 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm not looking forward to a new post, because the same few people will come in and start telling everybody how we can't know George Zimmerman was guilty, and go into the minutiae of the narrative for the hundredth time, ignoring anything that doesn't fit the version of hypotheticals they've concocted. I honestly don't need more comments by people I already know are racists, arseholes, idiots or a combination of the three.
posted by gadge emeritus at 11:48 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by gadge emeritus at 11:48 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
If the mod-stated goal is to produce a neutrally worded FPP heavy with links to interesting articles, perhaps various people here can nominate some potential links, and then in a little while someone else can assemble those links into an acceptably-worded FPP. With mods in attendance, perhaps a nominated FPP could even be pre-vetted here.
posted by chortly at 11:50 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by chortly at 11:50 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
I look forwards to whatever Wikipedia linkfest is allowed to stay, with whatever the bland summaries , but to me something like that is not Metafilter worthy, whereas something like this is, precisely because itg is a look at the case from outside of the newsfilter narrative.
posted by Artw at 11:52 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:52 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Maybe the mods can let us know if the new one passes muster before we all start commenting in it.
posted by andoatnp at 11:54 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by andoatnp at 11:54 PM on July 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I made a post. I'm not saying it's the best post ever but I made an effort to word it in a neutral way regardless of my own feelings because I think these are interesting links that I would like to discuss. I hope others can add more.
posted by mai at 11:56 PM on July 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by mai at 11:56 PM on July 13, 2013 [6 favorites]
Thanks for making the effort mai, we are going to go with that one.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:02 AM on July 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:02 AM on July 14, 2013 [7 favorites]
Good post, mai. That one will stay up. 4th time's the charm.
posted by cashman at 12:03 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 12:03 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
As someone who doesn't have an opinion on the verdict itself (I know I'm not informed enough to either agree with or second-guess the jury), I think mai's post (currently live on the front page) is a good treatment of the topic. It seems to provide a good overview of the bigger issues involved without rehashing the details of what people believe did or did not happen.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:03 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by Jacqueline at 12:03 AM on July 14, 2013
Sigh. Thank god the mods decided to stop pandering to racists, huh? That was getting old. Or maybe they're still pandering to racists - who knows? This could be a secret plot devised by the dark cabal of Metafilter Panderers to assist them in their vile panderings.
posted by koeselitz at 12:06 AM on July 14, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 12:06 AM on July 14, 2013 [9 favorites]
Yes koeselitz, I do consider your pleas for blandness part of the institution of racism. Sorry dude, but there it is.
You may go back to your crappy little victory dance or whatever the fuck it is now.
posted by Artw at 12:11 AM on July 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
You may go back to your crappy little victory dance or whatever the fuck it is now.
posted by Artw at 12:11 AM on July 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
You know what, this isn't going to be the default spot for attacking and insulting each other. We can discuss the proposal of bumping old posts more if folks want to do that, or we can close this.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:13 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:13 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
With respect to mai, if you're deleting posts for being newsfilter that new one should go.
posted by Artw at 12:15 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by Artw at 12:15 AM on July 14, 2013
The new post transcends newsfilter with that "law" link, which goes beyond merely reporting the verdict into a big picture analysis the legal system that produced it.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:24 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by Jacqueline at 12:24 AM on July 14, 2013
How could you think that, Artw? Seriously, that hurts - on tonight of all nights. I guess I need to work on being more thick-skinned, but coming from someone whose opinion I tend to respect... I mean, geez.
posted by koeselitz at 12:26 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 12:26 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Let's not do this please. You guys can follow up with each other if you'd like.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:29 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by taz (staff) at 12:29 AM on July 14, 2013
The new post transcends newsfilter with that "law" link, which goes beyond merely reporting the verdict into a big picture analysis the legal system that produced it.
Pretty damn slim.
posted by Artw at 12:32 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Pretty damn slim.
posted by Artw at 12:32 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
You know what's earth shaking in my world? The dismissal of ibn Rushd from the court of the third Almohad Caliph.
Even as someone who cares about the history of early Islam, I find this remark extraordinarily callous. This case and its circumstances has affected many people of color very personally, especially those with young children.
posted by Nomyte at 12:32 AM on July 14, 2013 [11 favorites]
Even as someone who cares about the history of early Islam, I find this remark extraordinarily callous. This case and its circumstances has affected many people of color very personally, especially those with young children.
posted by Nomyte at 12:32 AM on July 14, 2013 [11 favorites]
The new post transcends newsfilter with that "law" link, which goes beyond merely reporting the verdict into a big picture analysis the legal system that produced it.
It was (necessary) padding, with respect to the person who wrote the post. It's a shame that's the new standard but at least a post stands, I guess.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:36 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
It was (necessary) padding, with respect to the person who wrote the post. It's a shame that's the new standard but at least a post stands, I guess.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:36 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nomyte: "Even as someone who cares about the history of early Islam, I find this remark extraordinarily callous."
Yeah, that was a crap way to frame that. I was thinking about how distance and time help us see things better, but it came out sounding like an insulting dismissal. My apologies.
posted by koeselitz at 12:37 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that was a crap way to frame that. I was thinking about how distance and time help us see things better, but it came out sounding like an insulting dismissal. My apologies.
posted by koeselitz at 12:37 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Padding? For me, it was the most interesting link in that it added something new to the conversation instead of merely reporting on the verdict or reporting that people are upset about the verdict.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:38 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by Jacqueline at 12:38 AM on July 14, 2013
Let's maybe all sleep on this before going any further.
posted by Nomyte at 12:38 AM on July 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Nomyte at 12:38 AM on July 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Padding? For me, it was the most interesting link in that it added something new to the conversation instead of merely reporting on the verdict or reporting that people are upset about the verdict.
It's basically an extended bit on why the jury may have been in a bot of a bind and it's not really they're fault, not much more than has been in many news stories. It's sort of interesting to folks who want to be fair and balanced and argue that nothing really went wrong here, I guess, but basically the post was the same thing as the original single link deleted "newsfilter" post.
posted by Artw at 12:43 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's basically an extended bit on why the jury may have been in a bot of a bind and it's not really they're fault, not much more than has been in many news stories. It's sort of interesting to folks who want to be fair and balanced and argue that nothing really went wrong here, I guess, but basically the post was the same thing as the original single link deleted "newsfilter" post.
posted by Artw at 12:43 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't want to make anyone nervous or cause a panic but the halal chicken guy took his cart away for the first time since hurricane sandy. That means no late night chicken and rice.
posted by Ad hominem at 12:44 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 12:44 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
On the original (br0ader) point, that we need re-directs so that people can find existing threads: quick searches for Zimmerman, Martin and Trayvon all turned up several recent threads without much problem for me. So I'm not seeing a need for this particular pony.
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:03 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:03 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
So who gets to decide which posts are so desperately wonderfully important that they must be on the front page more than once? Because personally, as someone who is not an American or in America, I don't give a shit about the Zimmerman whatever and don't see why it needs any kind of special treatment. Just because someone tried to post something else related doesn't mean much, I could do that for any post I deem specially important as soon as I know that's going to get the old post bumped back up.
i'm not calling for the front page to be stacked with old posts that have new developments
This sounds exactly like what you're asking for to me. Either all posts with active comments should be bumped back up or none, and having all of them do it is very quickly going to cause a self-reinforcing cycle where new posts never get a chance to have enough comments to hang around.
I don't like this idea. I think it utterly breaks how metafilter works. I also assume it's never going to happen because of the whole breaking of the function thing. If this had been posted during the week when the main mods were on duty I'm sure it would have been shot down long ago.
posted by shelleycat at 3:22 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
i'm not calling for the front page to be stacked with old posts that have new developments
This sounds exactly like what you're asking for to me. Either all posts with active comments should be bumped back up or none, and having all of them do it is very quickly going to cause a self-reinforcing cycle where new posts never get a chance to have enough comments to hang around.
I don't like this idea. I think it utterly breaks how metafilter works. I also assume it's never going to happen because of the whole breaking of the function thing. If this had been posted during the week when the main mods were on duty I'm sure it would have been shot down long ago.
posted by shelleycat at 3:22 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
So who gets to decide which posts are so desperately wonderfully important that they must be on the front page more than once?
It's well known that Taz is the secret power behind the throne, lurking in her secret base under a volcano while commanding evil hordes to do her bidding, as she feasts on the souls of adorable kitties.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:51 AM on July 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
It's well known that Taz is the secret power behind the throne, lurking in her secret base under a volcano while commanding evil hordes to do her bidding, as she feasts on the souls of adorable kitties.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:51 AM on July 14, 2013 [6 favorites]
Rather than promoting or bumping active posts back to the top, I suggest using just a small piece of the underutilized sidebar to catalogue active open threads that also have ongoing current-events relevance. A single-word link would suffice most of the time: Snowden, Zimmerman, etc.
This would help all of us who may not have commented in those threads (hence don't have them in Recent Activity) find them, would indicate to infrequent users that there's an open thread, and would save on deletions.
posted by beagle at 5:05 AM on July 14, 2013 [12 favorites]
This would help all of us who may not have commented in those threads (hence don't have them in Recent Activity) find them, would indicate to infrequent users that there's an open thread, and would save on deletions.
posted by beagle at 5:05 AM on July 14, 2013 [12 favorites]
So who gets to decide which posts are so desperately wonderfully important that they must be on the front page more than once? Because personally, as someone who is not an American or in America, I don't give a shit about the Zimmerman whatever and don't see why it needs any kind of special treatment.
I'm an American in America, and a criminal-defense attorney, and I couldn't agree more.
The answer to your question is the mods, sort of, and the community, sort of. If I had to measure a rule of thumb, it would be something like: when a widely reported American news story has a major development more than five days after it began, people will rush to MetaFilter to make a new post about it. (IMO, by doing this, these people are making MetaFilter worse.) The moderators then have a choice whether to allow a repost, or to spend the next twenty-four hours deleting reposts and justifying both those individual deletions and the wider decision not to allow the repost in a massive MetaTalk thread. The mods choose the former. (IMO, a wrong call.)
It kinda sucks, but it's not ever going to change. It's just part of the culture here.
posted by cribcage at 5:36 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm an American in America, and a criminal-defense attorney, and I couldn't agree more.
The answer to your question is the mods, sort of, and the community, sort of. If I had to measure a rule of thumb, it would be something like: when a widely reported American news story has a major development more than five days after it began, people will rush to MetaFilter to make a new post about it. (IMO, by doing this, these people are making MetaFilter worse.) The moderators then have a choice whether to allow a repost, or to spend the next twenty-four hours deleting reposts and justifying both those individual deletions and the wider decision not to allow the repost in a massive MetaTalk thread. The mods choose the former. (IMO, a wrong call.)
It kinda sucks, but it's not ever going to change. It's just part of the culture here.
posted by cribcage at 5:36 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I suggest using just a small piece of the underutilized sidebar to catalogue active open threads that also have ongoing current-events relevance.
There's a pony: (Metafilter) Posts with Recent Comments. There is also (Metatalk) Posts with Recent Comments.
Old posts with new comments hover around the top of these listings.
posted by de at 6:41 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
There's a pony: (Metafilter) Posts with Recent Comments. There is also (Metatalk) Posts with Recent Comments.
Old posts with new comments hover around the top of these listings.
posted by de at 6:41 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Metafilter has nothing to say about it. Metafilter is not required to say things at events that happen. Metafilter is not a site for discussion about important things. Metafilter is a site where people can post good and interesting links from the Internet. I suspect you're missing this subtle but essential characteristic of this community.
Well here's another characteristic of Mefi that's perhaps been missed: rightly or wrongly it's viewed as a virtual hub/community of the American 'left'.
That means it has to feature stories like this, because if it doesn't, those of us outside the US just assume the US left just doesn't care anymore.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:43 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well here's another characteristic of Mefi that's perhaps been missed: rightly or wrongly it's viewed as a virtual hub/community of the American 'left'.
That means it has to feature stories like this, because if it doesn't, those of us outside the US just assume the US left just doesn't care anymore.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:43 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
What might be cool is if a subset of the "popular" page would include a section that determined popularity by age of post in relation to its ongoing activity. Or, perhaps it could have its own page that would be "old and ongoing" or something.
I can relate to not even being aware of important or interesting posts because I missed them on the front page and didn't know they were ongoing discussions.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:07 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I can relate to not even being aware of important or interesting posts because I missed them on the front page and didn't know they were ongoing discussions.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:07 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
To add to the above idea, posts might stay popular simply if they continue to have x number of posts added to it, say after a week or something. That would be a pretty easy algorithm to calculate.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:10 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:10 AM on July 14, 2013
this thread has been straight up ridiculous. pandering to racists? give me a break. if y'all hadn't circled the wagons in here for a round of abuse the mods (and the secret mefi racists) you could have traded 5-10 links over memail, found a good set that still slanted the narrative the way you wanted, and gotten it to stay. there's a lot of fpps between everyone in here and pretending you've forgotten the guidelines because you're pissed off is a shitty thing to do - that is what makes metafilter look bad, not the waiting 6 hours for a borderline post to go live.
if you're interested in a topic, don't have enough to make an fpp, and wonder if there's an ongoing conversation, might i suggest you use the search box? or have we all forgotten how to do that too?
posted by nadawi at 7:10 AM on July 14, 2013 [11 favorites]
if you're interested in a topic, don't have enough to make an fpp, and wonder if there's an ongoing conversation, might i suggest you use the search box? or have we all forgotten how to do that too?
posted by nadawi at 7:10 AM on July 14, 2013 [11 favorites]
I am just wondering why any one of those who had interest didn't put together a decent FPP instead of coming here to whine about why there isn't one.
Of course I realize that this is more about a broken America but waiting a couple hours until you discuss something isn't going to make that discussion any worse than it will be anyway.
posted by adamvasco at 7:13 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course I realize that this is more about a broken America but waiting a couple hours until you discuss something isn't going to make that discussion any worse than it will be anyway.
posted by adamvasco at 7:13 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
The FPP I constructed for the Sandy Hook massacre was the one chosen by the mods for MetaFilter. While every event, and every post, is different, did some notes about constructing that FPP in a MetaTalk thread about discussing serious events on Metafilter (which in itself has overlap with this thread). May or may not be useful, don't know.
posted by Wordshore at 7:43 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 7:43 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not looking forward to a new post, because the same few people will come in and start telling everybody how we can't know George Zimmerman was guilty, and go into the minutiae of the narrative for the hundredth time, ignoring anything that doesn't fit the version of hypotheticals they've concocted
My feelings pretty much. I get tired just reading that shit. I imagine what it's like to live with it.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:55 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
My feelings pretty much. I get tired just reading that shit. I imagine what it's like to live with it.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:55 AM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
And now that I've actually looked at the new Zimmerman thread I see that it is exactly that. Usual suspects, usual crap.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:39 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by octobersurprise at 8:39 AM on July 14, 2013
Usual suspects, usual crap.
Usual uninformed, undeleted shitting on Florida also. But don't dare mention that in the thread itself!
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:46 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Usual uninformed, undeleted shitting on Florida also. But don't dare mention that in the thread itself!
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:46 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Tiny violin for Florida. Those laws don't just turn up by themselves.
posted by Artw at 9:36 AM on July 14, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:36 AM on July 14, 2013 [8 favorites]
Rather than promoting or bumping active posts back to the top, I suggest using just a small piece of the underutilized sidebar to catalogue active open threads that also have ongoing current-events relevance. A single-word link would suffice most of the time: Snowden, Zimmerman, etc.
This seems like a reasonable suggestion. Or, if that makes it too official, which I understand can create other behavioural issues such as encouraging more newsfilter posts, perhaps we can all agree on a common "current event" tag and someone can make a grease monkey script for it.
posted by stp123 at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2013
This seems like a reasonable suggestion. Or, if that makes it too official, which I understand can create other behavioural issues such as encouraging more newsfilter posts, perhaps we can all agree on a common "current event" tag and someone can make a grease monkey script for it.
posted by stp123 at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2013
"Tiny violin for Florida. Those laws don't just turn up by themselves."
No, but such criticism should be carefully targeted and often questioned. Lumping an entire region of people together as a target of derogatory or hateful comments is wrong. It's just wrong. It really shouldn't be that difficult to curb this impulse.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:41 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
No, but such criticism should be carefully targeted and often questioned. Lumping an entire region of people together as a target of derogatory or hateful comments is wrong. It's just wrong. It really shouldn't be that difficult to curb this impulse.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:41 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Tiny violin for Florida. Those laws don't just turn up by themselves.
Remind me under what circumstances saying that "[p]eople should get the fuck out of that piece of shit [region]" is acceptable here. Because there's such a comment that's remained undeleted for close to two hours now, while a complaint that people are painting everyone from that region with an improperly broad brush is deleted nearly immediately.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Remind me under what circumstances saying that "[p]eople should get the fuck out of that piece of shit [region]" is acceptable here. Because there's such a comment that's remained undeleted for close to two hours now, while a complaint that people are painting everyone from that region with an improperly broad brush is deleted nearly immediately.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not looking forward to a new post, because the same few people will come in and start telling everybody how we can't know George Zimmerman was guilty, and go into the minutiae of the narrative for the hundredth time, ignoring anything that doesn't fit the version of hypotheticals they've concocted.
Funny how that works exactly the same if you take out the word "can't" -- except that you also have to take out the word "few."
Not that I'm taking sides -- I'm just saying that there's a lot of predictability on both sides of MetaFilter, and if you don't like hearing from the people who dare to disagree with you, maybe you're not looking for a discussion site after all.
posted by Etrigan at 9:57 AM on July 14, 2013 [10 favorites]
Funny how that works exactly the same if you take out the word "can't" -- except that you also have to take out the word "few."
Not that I'm taking sides -- I'm just saying that there's a lot of predictability on both sides of MetaFilter, and if you don't like hearing from the people who dare to disagree with you, maybe you're not looking for a discussion site after all.
posted by Etrigan at 9:57 AM on July 14, 2013 [10 favorites]
Taz eats kittens? I heard it was puppies.
Anyhow, either way, how does she get them under the volcano?
It's a long way to the top of the page. I'm guessing I missed something in the thread.
posted by mule98J at 10:10 AM on July 14, 2013
Anyhow, either way, how does she get them under the volcano?
It's a long way to the top of the page. I'm guessing I missed something in the thread.
posted by mule98J at 10:10 AM on July 14, 2013
one dead town's last parade: comments with metacommentary like "why wasn't this comment deleted?" don't belong on the blue. That's why your comment saying that was deleted.
If there is further general "Florida sux" stuff in there I will probably delete it or leave a note, but criticism of Florida's laws and social climate is on topic for that thread, so I've been erring on the side of leaving that sort of thing. I agree that I wish people would not generalize about whole states or regions.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:15 AM on July 14, 2013
If there is further general "Florida sux" stuff in there I will probably delete it or leave a note, but criticism of Florida's laws and social climate is on topic for that thread, so I've been erring on the side of leaving that sort of thing. I agree that I wish people would not generalize about whole states or regions.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:15 AM on July 14, 2013
Say Mods, did my Zimmerman meet Dexter comment get deleted? I'm still waking up so I may have just closed the tab before hitting post. I thought it was funny but if it's too inflammatory that's fine.
posted by homunculus at 10:27 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by homunculus at 10:27 AM on July 14, 2013
Yeah, we are deleting comments that amount to "Zimmerman should die/get killed". I know you didn't mean it in seriousness, but that's still a line we sort of want to hold.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:30 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:30 AM on July 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think the idea of "sticky" posts or bumping old posts back to the front page is a horrible bad idea. The site has existed in the manner of new displaces old for 13 years. It's a feature, not a flaw. When I come here I scan the front page, if I see things I've seen before I stop. I would assume there's nothing new and move on.
If I wonder what metafilter has to say about the sinking of the Titanic I search for it. If I don;t see anything, and I think it needs to be here I create a post if I feel inclined. If there's a subject I like, but the thread is closed I do mourn my lost chance of participation, but other than that no loss.
If posts keep pumping to the top this site would be nothing but Egypt (or other uprisings), bankers, Apple, and whatever really important legal or natural disaster has recently occurred.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:35 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
If I wonder what metafilter has to say about the sinking of the Titanic I search for it. If I don;t see anything, and I think it needs to be here I create a post if I feel inclined. If there's a subject I like, but the thread is closed I do mourn my lost chance of participation, but other than that no loss.
If posts keep pumping to the top this site would be nothing but Egypt (or other uprisings), bankers, Apple, and whatever really important legal or natural disaster has recently occurred.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:35 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
LobsterMitten, I understand. Thanks for letting me know.
posted by homunculus at 10:37 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 10:37 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Funny how that works exactly the same if you take out the word "can't" -- except that you also have to take out the word "few."
Shape of the world: Experts differ.
if you don't like hearing from the people who dare to disagree with you, maybe you're not looking for a discussion site after all.
Well, now, I can think of a lot of things I have no interest in discussing at all and if you try, I'll bet you can, too. I probably shouldn't even bother writing this.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:40 AM on July 14, 2013
Shape of the world: Experts differ.
if you don't like hearing from the people who dare to disagree with you, maybe you're not looking for a discussion site after all.
Well, now, I can think of a lot of things I have no interest in discussing at all and if you try, I'll bet you can, too. I probably shouldn't even bother writing this.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:40 AM on July 14, 2013
I'm not looking forward to a new post, because the same few people will come in and start telling everybody how we can't know George Zimmerman was guilty
I can see where people who disagree with you would be problematic. Perhaps you could open a thread just for people who see things the same way you do. Blogspot will help.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:48 AM on July 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
I can see where people who disagree with you would be problematic. Perhaps you could open a thread just for people who see things the same way you do. Blogspot will help.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:48 AM on July 14, 2013 [5 favorites]
the vast majority of people would not be able to find what people on metafilter think about this, because all new posts about it are being deleted and people are directed to the 2+ week old thread
SFIAMO
(Search for it an move on?)
posted by 4ster at 10:51 AM on July 14, 2013
SFIAMO
(Search for it an move on?)
posted by 4ster at 10:51 AM on July 14, 2013
I vote against bumping. If people want a new thread, make one.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:53 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by Ironmouth at 10:53 AM on July 14, 2013
Put another way, the remedy is in the hands of the person who disagreed with the deletions, they can make a thread that won't be deleted.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:54 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Ironmouth at 10:54 AM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
See, Ironmouth is not always anti-deletion!
posted by cjorgensen at 11:06 AM on July 14, 2013
posted by cjorgensen at 11:06 AM on July 14, 2013
So, I guess the moral of the story is that the system works! Well, the MetaFilter system, not the US legal system, but you take comfort where you can.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:11 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:11 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ill take comfort when I know the halal chicken guy is back.
I hope the Halal chicken system worked this time.
posted by Ad hominem at 2:06 PM on July 14, 2013
I hope the Halal chicken system worked this time.
posted by Ad hominem at 2:06 PM on July 14, 2013
How about having an active tags cloud on the Tags page instead of or in addition to the Most Used Tags cloud currently displayed? I often use tags to find things specific and general.
posted by maggieb at 3:42 PM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by maggieb at 3:42 PM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I like maggieb's idea. Or, I wonder if someone good at scripting could write a little greasemonkey script that would find active threads longer than 100 comments (or so) and put them in the sidebar for you, which users could install if they wanted to be able to see highly-active threads that are likely to be about ongoing news stories.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:00 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:00 PM on July 14, 2013
Tell Me No Lies: I can see where people who disagree with you would be problematic. Perhaps you could open a thread just for people who see things the same way you do. Blogspot will help.
Etrigan: I'm just saying that there's a lot of predictability on both sides of MetaFilter, and if you don't like hearing from the people who dare to disagree with you, maybe you're not looking for a discussion site after all.
Would it have helped if I said I wasn't looking forward to people repeating the inaccuracies about the trial in general? Or would I have just gotten the same snarky responses?
If you look at the thread, you'll see there's some of exactly the kind of comments I expected. Without getting specific, I don't find everybody who has a different view of the circumstances than me to be unnecessary, but if you've been reading the Trayvon Martin posts from the beginning, as I have, there's posters who have repeatedly, continuously, said the same exact thing in every single thread in defence of the shooter and against the victim. This leads to the exact same conversation, every time, with the same people showing the same biases. And, yes, that includes people on 'my side', but they're also rarely the ones saying the racist, objectionable things. Except for the 'Fuck Florida' stuff, which is both unnecessary and also very tired.
tl;dr: Yeah, how dare I get sick of reading racist beliefs on Metafilter.
posted by gadge emeritus at 6:32 PM on July 14, 2013
Etrigan: I'm just saying that there's a lot of predictability on both sides of MetaFilter, and if you don't like hearing from the people who dare to disagree with you, maybe you're not looking for a discussion site after all.
Would it have helped if I said I wasn't looking forward to people repeating the inaccuracies about the trial in general? Or would I have just gotten the same snarky responses?
If you look at the thread, you'll see there's some of exactly the kind of comments I expected. Without getting specific, I don't find everybody who has a different view of the circumstances than me to be unnecessary, but if you've been reading the Trayvon Martin posts from the beginning, as I have, there's posters who have repeatedly, continuously, said the same exact thing in every single thread in defence of the shooter and against the victim. This leads to the exact same conversation, every time, with the same people showing the same biases. And, yes, that includes people on 'my side', but they're also rarely the ones saying the racist, objectionable things. Except for the 'Fuck Florida' stuff, which is both unnecessary and also very tired.
tl;dr: Yeah, how dare I get sick of reading racist beliefs on Metafilter.
posted by gadge emeritus at 6:32 PM on July 14, 2013
I like the idea of listing active threads in a sidebar. The front page is organized chronologically, but in the end that's just a particular, default mode of conveying information. People are not linear, etc.
posted by polymodus at 6:43 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by polymodus at 6:43 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mods come on.
I agree we shouldn't be focusing on on specific mefites in the thread, but discussing the entire concept that a specific neighborhood in Brooklyn needs to be protected from outsiders is certainly relevant.
What do you think happens in New York when people protect their neighborhoods, we end up with Howard Beach. Except Joey Fama was convicted.
We get 3 comments about Park Slope, and 15 about the meaning of the word roger.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:42 PM on July 14, 2013
I agree we shouldn't be focusing on on specific mefites in the thread, but discussing the entire concept that a specific neighborhood in Brooklyn needs to be protected from outsiders is certainly relevant.
What do you think happens in New York when people protect their neighborhoods, we end up with Howard Beach. Except Joey Fama was convicted.
We get 3 comments about Park Slope, and 15 about the meaning of the word roger.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:42 PM on July 14, 2013
I am trying to prevent the thread from being about corb, corb's guns, and corb's neighborhood. It's not fair to ask her to knock it off and then let everyone dissect her in her absence.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:52 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:52 PM on July 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ok. I didn't realize you asked her to to knock it off.
That is indeed unfair of us.
Also, lemme correct myself. It wasn't Joey Fama. Fama was Bensonhurst.
For a little background. The murders in Howard Beach and Bensonhurst directly contributed to the Crown Heights riots. New York has been down this road once before.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:57 PM on July 14, 2013
That is indeed unfair of us.
Also, lemme correct myself. It wasn't Joey Fama. Fama was Bensonhurst.
For a little background. The murders in Howard Beach and Bensonhurst directly contributed to the Crown Heights riots. New York has been down this road once before.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:57 PM on July 14, 2013
Mod note: Deleted a comment. If your temper is generally high, please consider doing something other than making increasingly vicious jabs at other members.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:01 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:01 PM on July 14, 2013
That thread is gettin' weed whacked. There must be an awful lot of terrible comments.
posted by Justinian at 8:04 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by Justinian at 8:04 PM on July 14, 2013
It's been a long shift.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:06 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:06 PM on July 14, 2013
I haven't commented much in the new one to try to help but others have apparently picked up my slack and then some.
posted by Justinian at 8:07 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by Justinian at 8:07 PM on July 14, 2013
sorry rn. Chicken guy isn't back and I'm feemin.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:07 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by Ad hominem at 8:07 PM on July 14, 2013
I want chicken too. :(
posted by Jacqueline at 8:50 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by Jacqueline at 8:50 PM on July 14, 2013
I'm having Grape Nuts instead. Which is kind of like chicken. If you're alone :(
posted by Justinian at 9:03 PM on July 14, 2013
posted by Justinian at 9:03 PM on July 14, 2013
I used to love Grape Nuts. With lots of sugar and a little milk. Which I guess defeats the purpose of eating Grape Nuts. Know what a really good substitute for chicken is? Mushrooms. Big, fat mushrooms cut into thick slices, breaded just like chicken and deep fried. Lovely stuff that.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:09 PM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:09 PM on July 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
I like the idea of listing active threads in a sidebar. The front page is organized chronologically, but in the end that's just a particular, default mode of conveying information. People are not linear, etc.
Do you know about Recent Comments? It's maybe not easy to find, but I think that meets your needs.
(I wonder if there's a script or something that would let us use Recent Comments as a default view, rather than Recent Posts? Or switch easily between them?)
posted by Infinite Jest at 3:46 AM on July 15, 2013
Do you know about Recent Comments? It's maybe not easy to find, but I think that meets your needs.
(I wonder if there's a script or something that would let us use Recent Comments as a default view, rather than Recent Posts? Or switch easily between them?)
posted by Infinite Jest at 3:46 AM on July 15, 2013
Do you know about Recent Comments? It's maybe not easy to find, but I think that meets your needs.
Recent Comments is not the same as "hot topics", which is where this thread, and the suggestion of a sidebar widget, began. At this moment, and usually, Recent Comments is a pretty random assortment of posts, which may or may not include the recent current events posts anywhere near the top. A "current events" sidebar would require a little curation, but not much. It would be for things like Zimmerman, Snowden, DOMA, Google Reader, election threads when they happen, major disasters, etc. Call it NewsFilter.
posted by beagle at 5:45 AM on July 15, 2013
Recent Comments is not the same as "hot topics", which is where this thread, and the suggestion of a sidebar widget, began. At this moment, and usually, Recent Comments is a pretty random assortment of posts, which may or may not include the recent current events posts anywhere near the top. A "current events" sidebar would require a little curation, but not much. It would be for things like Zimmerman, Snowden, DOMA, Google Reader, election threads when they happen, major disasters, etc. Call it NewsFilter.
posted by beagle at 5:45 AM on July 15, 2013
I am trying to prevent the thread from being about corb, corb's guns, and corb's neighborhood.
I propose corb's corollary to Godwin's law: as a metafilter discussion continues to involve corb, the probability of it being about corb, corb's guns, and corb's neighborhood approaches 1.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:03 AM on July 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
I propose corb's corollary to Godwin's law: as a metafilter discussion continues to involve corb, the probability of it being about corb, corb's guns, and corb's neighborhood approaches 1.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:03 AM on July 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
You could shorten that to 'corb's beliefs', I reckon.
posted by gadge emeritus at 7:47 AM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by gadge emeritus at 7:47 AM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
And change "corb" to "any conservative," because that seems to be how it is. If you're the only one in a thread who believes a particular thing, you're going to get a little piling on, and it's generally very hard to know when you've crossed the thin line that divides responding to criticism of your views from taking on all comers and thereby making the conversation about yourself.
posted by koeselitz at 8:00 AM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 8:00 AM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
And change "corb" to "any conservative,"
Well, to be scrupulously fair, it's more "anyone with very strongly held beliefs which won't be refuted." It's just that this is a metafilter-specific instance of this.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:09 AM on July 15, 2013
Well, to be scrupulously fair, it's more "anyone with very strongly held beliefs which won't be refuted." It's just that this is a metafilter-specific instance of this.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:09 AM on July 15, 2013
"And change 'corb' to 'any conservative,' because that seems to be how it is."
That's really true and I feel like conservatives are in an inherently difficult position on MeFi. I'm sympathetic to that. But I think that corb is a special case. There's more going on.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:12 AM on July 15, 2013
That's really true and I feel like conservatives are in an inherently difficult position on MeFi. I'm sympathetic to that. But I think that corb is a special case. There's more going on.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:12 AM on July 15, 2013
I propose corb's corollary to Godwin's law: as a metafilter discussion continues to involve corb, the probability of it being about corb, corb's guns, and corb's neighborhood approaches 1.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:03 PM on July 15 [3 favorites +] [!]
It is a real shame you guys are forced to reply to every single point she makes.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 8:31 AM on July 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 2:03 PM on July 15 [3 favorites +] [!]
It is a real shame you guys are forced to reply to every single point she makes.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 8:31 AM on July 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
Do you have a point, Mr. Knoble or are you merely reflecting on the world's injustice?
posted by octobersurprise at 8:46 AM on July 15, 2013
posted by octobersurprise at 8:46 AM on July 15, 2013
It would be for things like Zimmerman, Snowden, DOMA, Google Reader, election threads when they happen, major disasters, etc. Call it NewsFilter.
It does seem like a very specific feature in that way.
If we're going to go the direction of special support for newsfilter it seems reasonable to reopen the discussion of giving it its own subsite. In terms of its special requirements -- particularly in the vastly disproportionate amount of moderator time and energy it consumes -- it really does seem like different beast than the rest of what appears on the front page.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:52 AM on July 15, 2013
It does seem like a very specific feature in that way.
If we're going to go the direction of special support for newsfilter it seems reasonable to reopen the discussion of giving it its own subsite. In terms of its special requirements -- particularly in the vastly disproportionate amount of moderator time and energy it consumes -- it really does seem like different beast than the rest of what appears on the front page.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:52 AM on July 15, 2013
Sheesh. Can someone get cupcake1337 a shift key? I have an extra one and would be happy to lend one of mine.
I'm not suggesting that we should prevent 15 year olds from making posts or that people be precluded from showing how edgy they are by doing the whole lowercase thing in the comments, but I think it would be nice to require posters in posts to the front page to use proper grammar and capitalization. It is a signal of quality on which we try to pride ourselves. Posts should require the necessary efforts; it's the Metafilter front page, not irc.
posted by dios at 9:05 AM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not suggesting that we should prevent 15 year olds from making posts or that people be precluded from showing how edgy they are by doing the whole lowercase thing in the comments, but I think it would be nice to require posters in posts to the front page to use proper grammar and capitalization. It is a signal of quality on which we try to pride ourselves. Posts should require the necessary efforts; it's the Metafilter front page, not irc.
posted by dios at 9:05 AM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
It is a real shame you guys are forced to reply to every single point she makes.
You know what, no.
I know you're just being dismissive, and I know you think corb is hard done by. But I don't want Metafilter to be a place where her sort of bigotry and fear-mongering goes by without comment. There might not need to be a pile-on, but whenever something like the sort of commentary corb writes all too often gets posted without a response, it comes across as a tacit approval of what she's said.
I, for one, have started to dread her arrival in threads, considering the consistency with which she posts things which could be, at best, described as lacking all empathy for people not within her demographic. But I also firmly believe the site would be worse if many of these more damaging beliefs were allowed to stand without anyone refuting them, or even pointing out their failings.
It's not an ideal situation. But then she's not an ideal member.
posted by gadge emeritus at 9:11 AM on July 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
You know what, no.
I know you're just being dismissive, and I know you think corb is hard done by. But I don't want Metafilter to be a place where her sort of bigotry and fear-mongering goes by without comment. There might not need to be a pile-on, but whenever something like the sort of commentary corb writes all too often gets posted without a response, it comes across as a tacit approval of what she's said.
I, for one, have started to dread her arrival in threads, considering the consistency with which she posts things which could be, at best, described as lacking all empathy for people not within her demographic. But I also firmly believe the site would be worse if many of these more damaging beliefs were allowed to stand without anyone refuting them, or even pointing out their failings.
It's not an ideal situation. But then she's not an ideal member.
posted by gadge emeritus at 9:11 AM on July 15, 2013 [11 favorites]
That's really true and I feel like conservatives are in an inherently difficult position on MeFi. I'm sympathetic to that. But I think that corb is a special case. There's more going on.
Self-evidently, I think - but is the end of a discussion about bumping FPPs an appropriate place for that conversation?
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:51 AM on July 15, 2013
Self-evidently, I think - but is the end of a discussion about bumping FPPs an appropriate place for that conversation?
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:51 AM on July 15, 2013
I'm gonna go with "no". I can't see the purpose of actually creating such a derail without her even being here.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:57 AM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:57 AM on July 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Remember that thread, maybe it was the bombing thread or maybe the Texas explosion, where comment after comment was deleted because a couple people were almost gleeful about about the events and were making it intolerable for people who were genuinely anguished?
posted by Ad hominem at 10:01 AM on July 15, 2013
posted by Ad hominem at 10:01 AM on July 15, 2013
Isn't there a killfile script for Greasemonkey that could be useful for not having to see input from certain users anymore? If so, can someone please point me in the right direction?
posted by palomar at 12:10 PM on July 15, 2013
posted by palomar at 12:10 PM on July 15, 2013
Isn't there a killfile script for Greasemonkey that could be useful for not having to see input from certain users anymore? If so, can someone please point me in the right direction?
here ya go
posted by lampshade at 12:35 PM on July 15, 2013
here ya go
posted by lampshade at 12:35 PM on July 15, 2013
killfiles are the death of community.
posted by Justinian at 12:37 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 12:37 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
This meta is not about one user whose political stance is difference from yours (or mine for that matter). If you wish to call that user out please do so in a new meta thread instead of making snide remarks here where she has not commented. It is plain rude.
I am surprised that none of the mods have not yet got rid of that noise.
Metafilter needs diverse opinions otherwise it becomes a circle jerk. Instead of the antagonism you could try finding out how and why that particular user has the beliefs that she does.
posted by adamvasco at 12:42 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am surprised that none of the mods have not yet got rid of that noise.
Metafilter needs diverse opinions otherwise it becomes a circle jerk. Instead of the antagonism you could try finding out how and why that particular user has the beliefs that she does.
posted by adamvasco at 12:42 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am surprised that none of the mods have not yet got rid of that noise.
We don't delete much from metatalk, for better and for worse, and so all sorts of stuff that may be mildly obnoxious in one sense or another tends to stick around here so long as it doesn't spin way out of control.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:44 PM on July 15, 2013
We don't delete much from metatalk, for better and for worse, and so all sorts of stuff that may be mildly obnoxious in one sense or another tends to stick around here so long as it doesn't spin way out of control.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:44 PM on July 15, 2013
If one's options are to leave the community to avoid encountering abhorrent and deeply offensive comments from particular users, or to use a killfile to avoid those comments and continue to interact with the members of the community that don't espouse those views... well, I honestly wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to use the killfile option.
posted by palomar at 12:51 PM on July 15, 2013
posted by palomar at 12:51 PM on July 15, 2013
"Instead of the antagonism you could try finding out how and why that particular user has the beliefs that she does."
After experiencing the Zimmerman thread, I'm going to go with the antagonism option. Thanks for the advice, though; I appreciate it in the spirit in which it was offered.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:54 PM on July 15, 2013
After experiencing the Zimmerman thread, I'm going to go with the antagonism option. Thanks for the advice, though; I appreciate it in the spirit in which it was offered.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:54 PM on July 15, 2013
There might not need to be a pile-on, but whenever something like the sort of commentary corb writes all too often gets posted without a response, it comes across as a tacit approval of what she's said.
You know what, no.
posted by Etrigan at 12:56 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
You know what, no.
posted by Etrigan at 12:56 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Metafilter needs diverse opinions otherwise it becomes a circle jerk.
What it does not need is racism and other forms of prejudice. It might be in nice-looking sentences, but it's otherwise quite blatant.
Instead of the antagonism you could try finding out how and why that particular user has the beliefs that she does.
We don't need to find out, it's provided repeatedly and at length quite often. But yes, it does need another thread if it's going to become A Thing.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:11 PM on July 15, 2013
What it does not need is racism and other forms of prejudice. It might be in nice-looking sentences, but it's otherwise quite blatant.
Instead of the antagonism you could try finding out how and why that particular user has the beliefs that she does.
We don't need to find out, it's provided repeatedly and at length quite often. But yes, it does need another thread if it's going to become A Thing.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:11 PM on July 15, 2013
And there's no point in doing that - I mean, it might be useful as some sort of group therapy session, but it won't change anything otherwise. So.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:37 PM on July 15, 2013
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:37 PM on July 15, 2013
Instead of the antagonism you could try finding out how and why that particular user has the beliefs that she does."
We tried and the whole shit got deleted. So people can comment, but when you ask a question it gets shut down because you are focusing on one user. Anyone see how problematic that is?
It's like we gotta designate a corb whisperer to quietly discuss this shit and come back with some answers, cuz the mods are going to shut it down when 50 people jump her in the thread. I even tried to be tactful, admitting a fault of my own to set people at ease before asking questions.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
We tried and the whole shit got deleted. So people can comment, but when you ask a question it gets shut down because you are focusing on one user. Anyone see how problematic that is?
It's like we gotta designate a corb whisperer to quietly discuss this shit and come back with some answers, cuz the mods are going to shut it down when 50 people jump her in the thread. I even tried to be tactful, admitting a fault of my own to set people at ease before asking questions.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
whenever something like the sort of commentary corb writes all too often gets posted without a response, it comes across as a tacit approval of what she's said.
To whom? I don't think that's how most users would interpret it.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 4:30 PM on July 15, 2013
To whom? I don't think that's how most users would interpret it.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 4:30 PM on July 15, 2013
I think there's probably a difference between people who lived through the Eternal September and younger people, here. Younger people who have little experience of traditional message boards or message board communities are only really getting an idea of how footholding works now from the occasional subreddit.
There are a number of factors here which would reduce the risk of footholding, though - i.e. establishing a precedent where problematic speech is tolerated and then bringing in a like-minded community. One is the membership fee, one is the presence of moderators who actively observe threads and who change their policy in response to changes in contest - i.e the moderation here is too large to be swamped and too small to be paralysed. Another is the strength of corb's social connections with such groups, which is unproven.
So, it seems like a not improbable view for a person to hold, but confident statements about how many people on MetaFilter might hold or not hold it is likely unprovable.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:49 PM on July 15, 2013
There are a number of factors here which would reduce the risk of footholding, though - i.e. establishing a precedent where problematic speech is tolerated and then bringing in a like-minded community. One is the membership fee, one is the presence of moderators who actively observe threads and who change their policy in response to changes in contest - i.e the moderation here is too large to be swamped and too small to be paralysed. Another is the strength of corb's social connections with such groups, which is unproven.
So, it seems like a not improbable view for a person to hold, but confident statements about how many people on MetaFilter might hold or not hold it is likely unprovable.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:49 PM on July 15, 2013
(And that particular concern does not seem like a big deal. However, as we have seen, getting people to stop taking issue with what they see as badly conceived or badly framed arguments on MetaFilter is a Sisyphean task.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:53 PM on July 15, 2013
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:53 PM on July 15, 2013
See, the thing is that there are plenty of conservatives around here who show up and are active in threads. Only a very few become lightning rods.
Perhaps that indicates that "conservative" is not the issue in play here.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:02 PM on July 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
Perhaps that indicates that "conservative" is not the issue in play here.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:02 PM on July 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
Every newsfilter post is a tragedy of the commons. Let's not encourage it.
posted by LarryC at 12:36 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by LarryC at 12:36 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
So someone made a pony request which looks like it's not going to happen then I come back to my recent activity some time later to find it's turned into a thread all about corb which corb isn't even posting in and which really has nothing to do with the pony request. What is going on?
It really seems shitty to be talking about someone behind their back regardless of who they are and co-opting an unrelated thread to do it isn't great either. If the pony request is dead in the water why not close this thread? And if you all have a problem with corb why not address that with her (either in a new thread or some other way)?
posted by shelleycat at 12:43 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
It really seems shitty to be talking about someone behind their back regardless of who they are and co-opting an unrelated thread to do it isn't great either. If the pony request is dead in the water why not close this thread? And if you all have a problem with corb why not address that with her (either in a new thread or some other way)?
posted by shelleycat at 12:43 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Metafilter needs diverse opinions otherwise it becomes a circle jerk.
Metafilter needs smart diverse opinions, not the repeated paranoid rants that have demonstrated a remarkable ability to not think.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:24 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Metafilter needs smart diverse opinions, not the repeated paranoid rants that have demonstrated a remarkable ability to not think.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:24 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
shelleycat: "If the pony request is dead in the water why not close this thread?"
That seems like a fair request. Any objections?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:47 AM on July 16, 2013
That seems like a fair request. Any objections?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 4:47 AM on July 16, 2013
Okay, I'm going to close this up. Should any pressing concerns remain they are always welcome in the contact form or in a new thread.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 5:53 AM on July 16, 2013
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 5:53 AM on July 16, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:51 PM on July 13, 2013 [3 favorites]