Be Nice to the N00bs.

April 29, 2004 8:22 AM

I'd like to remind everyone that we have some new users, and we really ought to encourage them as much as possible. While I agree entirely with the Q-man's sentiment, name-calling is counterproductive to the site, especially when it's a user's first FPP.

This isn't so much a call-out on quonsar, but a reminder that discouraging the new users is detrimental to the health of the site.
posted by jpoulos to etiquette/policy at 8:22 AM (93 comments total)

In this case, though, he's making a valid point in his quonsar style.

That type of reaction is exactly what the terrorists were hoping to accomplish. Go to the mall, baby.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:26 AM on April 29, 2004

yes , we should only discourage the older users.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:30 AM on April 29, 2004

I'm with quonsar. It could have been phrased more gently, but it would lost some punch. No foul!
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:30 AM on April 29, 2004

yeah, but in the meantime that thread gave us a new tagline:
MetaFilter: That Wasn't Meant to Sound Snotty.
posted by matteo at 8:39 AM on April 29, 2004

You're all a bunch of pussies.
posted by jpoulos at 8:50 AM on April 29, 2004

Yes , we should only discourage the older users.

Presumably, those who've been around a while have developed a thicker skin, and won't be discouraged by the name-calling.
posted by jpoulos at 8:53 AM on April 29, 2004

jpoulos, I would hope that most of the new users have been lurking for a good long time and would realize that metafilter isn't for babies, pussies, or those with thin skins. Trial by fire, baby.
posted by ashbury at 8:57 AM on April 29, 2004

I'd agree. fuck fuck. Most people that have new user accounts have probably been reading the site for many years, shit fuck shit fuck, and are used to fowl language, bitch bitch fuck, and offensive messages.
posted by chunking express at 9:04 AM on April 29, 2004

Nice try though, jpoulos. I'd hope we'd all cut new users 3.1415926 inches of slack, and I think lots of us will. I'm afraid though that asking the same of quonsar is akin to asking an elephant to constrain its defecating to a thimble - with predictable results.
posted by JollyWanker at 9:10 AM on April 29, 2004

are used to fowl language

And if you aren't, you ought to be, given that you have me and the wonder chicken around.
posted by orange swan at 9:11 AM on April 29, 2004

fowl language?

DUCK! CHICKEN! GOOSE!

(etc, until people learn the difference between foul and fowl, its and it's, their and there).
posted by fvw at 9:14 AM on April 29, 2004

You're all a bunch of pussies.

Not me, I'm a prick.
posted by jonmc at 9:15 AM on April 29, 2004

Note to users:
Don't use the word pussy 'round here unless you're prepared for a tidal wave of hilariously indignant emails from rcade accusing you of outright misogyny, among other things, despite that no females in the conversation actually found the word offensive. Trust me on this one.
posted by dhoyt at 9:22 AM on April 29, 2004

As far as I know you are still free to use 'prick' and 'dickhead', et al, though.
posted by dhoyt at 9:27 AM on April 29, 2004

dhoyt:

on the minus side: what happens in email should stay in email as a general rule.

on the plus side: I agree with you re:pussy. Of all the idioms for the female genitalia, it's the best one. Most females I know agree with me on this.
posted by jonmc at 9:28 AM on April 29, 2004

MetaFilter: fowl language, bitch bitch fuck, and offensive messages
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:39 AM on April 29, 2004

Yes. Of course I was referring to poultry. I can spell. Damn it.
posted by chunking express at 9:48 AM on April 29, 2004

"pussy" is not fowl language, it's feline language.

And I'm glad the original thread was posted, but I hoped it would focus more on the laughable list of "things to watch out for", which I gratuitously quoted in my comment.

come to think of it, the q-man is sometimes kind of catty. (qatty?)
posted by wendell at 9:57 AM on April 29, 2004

Pussy is good.

Until I had the misfortune of exposing my closeted, lovingly tended soul to the infamous Boyzoni ogres of the mounts of Mefi, I genuinely thought a pussy was a quiet, purring - if somewhat fluffy and easily satisfied - kind of person. I had no idea it meant coward or wimp.

OK, what does it mean? I need to know before I can pronounce judgement.

P.S. Talking about words that should be forbidden, I find I can no longer hear the phrase "the Iraqi people" - in fact anything to do with people: the people's princess; the people's choice; the people's this and that. Just look at the word: p-e-o-p-l-e. There's something wrong with it. I have started pronouncing it with an accent on the O (pee-opp-elle) as a mild form of protest.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:00 AM on April 29, 2004

Perhaps we should try and be civil to all members, not just the new ones?

*ducks*
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:05 AM on April 29, 2004

Speaking as a new user, I would consider it an honour to be berated by quonsar.

And, after reading the comment in question, come on! If you can't take that you should have your Internet license taken away.
posted by Capn at 10:12 AM on April 29, 2004

*ducks*

There you go with the fowl language again, pussy.

I would agree that we should be nice to everybody, except that has never in the history of mankind worked for longer than the half-life of certain man-made elements with high atomic numbers that I won't bother to look up the names of.
posted by Hildago at 10:14 AM on April 29, 2004

I would consider it an honour to be berated by quonsar.

q, headbutt this guy and let's get it over with
posted by matteo at 10:17 AM on April 29, 2004

dhoyt, I didn't read the thread until now, and I do find the term mildly offensive. Otherwise, I thought Q's comment was mildly illuminating.
posted by theora55 at 10:34 AM on April 29, 2004

I think that there is no reason to use slang terms for either male or female genitalia as an insult. Do you realize that when you call someone a pussy as an insult you are by default insulting them by calling them a woman?

And as a woman I find THAT offensive, never mind the reference to the body part itself.
posted by konolia at 10:39 AM on April 29, 2004

"... longer than the half-life of certain man-made elements with high atomic numbers that I won't bother to look up the names of"

quonsium, symbol q, having an atomic number of infinity minus one, with an atomic weight that fluctuates between 225-245 depending on that week's supply of element 420. quonsium occurs naturally, yet is so unstable that it can only be observed in brief, short bursts after which severe retinal damage and/or emotional growth stunting has been known to occur.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:47 AM on April 29, 2004

konolia, like it or not, gender identity is an important part of our society. Hence, it is insulting to call a man a woman or call a woman a man.

To put it another way: insulting slang terms are broadly offensive? I am shocked, SHOCKED!
posted by Capn at 10:51 AM on April 29, 2004

I do find the term mildly offensive.

Well, when used as in "You're a pussy!" I can see how it's offensive. When used as a slang term for the body part, not really. Like I said it's the best word we've got for it.
posted by jonmc at 11:10 AM on April 29, 2004

I prefer "quim".
posted by orange swan at 11:12 AM on April 29, 2004

Ooh, qatty! Now I just want to chew the q.
posted by Gnatcho at 11:24 AM on April 29, 2004

I would consider it an honour to be berated by quonsar.

I was thrilled when I got a q-snark on my first MeFi post. Made me feel like I belonged.

As for body parts:

'Vagina' Sonnet
 
Is 'vagina' suitable for use
in a sonnet? I don't suppose so.
A famous poet once told me, 'Vagina's ugly.'
Meaning, of course, the sound of it. In poems.
Meanwhile he inserts his penis frequently
into his verse, calling it, seriously, 'My
Penis'. It is short, I know, and dignified.
I mean of course the sound of it. In poems.
The whole thing is unfortunate, but petty,
like my hangup concerning English Dept memos
headed "Mr/Mrs/Miss" - only a fishbone
In the throat of the revolution -
a waste of brains - to be concerned about
this minor issue of my cunt's good name.
 
                                    Joan Larkin
posted by languagehat at 11:38 AM on April 29, 2004

It's too bad that there's not another word meaning "coward" that (in American English, anyway) has the emotional resonance and, er, subtlety that "pussy" does. It can be deeply insulting, or it can be more of a playful taunt.

I don't doubt that these characteristics are in some deep ways related to its misogynist implications; and I suppose I do wonder if the same effect could be achieved outside that context. It's probably clear to everyone here that I deepy disaprove of its misogyny. On the other hand, I'm a fan of deft use of language. Quonsar couldn't have said what he said with quite the same effect, wit (such as it is), and, um, passive-aggressiveness without the word "pussy", I don't think.

I suppose I also rue the apparent non-existence of a laudatory—or at least vaguely positive—word for "vagina". There should be one. Because, you know, vaginas are way cool.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:57 AM on April 29, 2004

I think that there is no reason to use slang terms for either male or female genitalia as an insult. Do you realize that when you call someone a pussy as an insult you are by default insulting them by calling them a woman?

Oh, stuff and nonsense. If I call a man or woman a prick am I insulting men? What oppressed group am I insulting if I call someone an asshole -- vertebrates?
posted by IshmaelGraves at 12:19 PM on April 29, 2004

so, new users cannot defend themselfs? or is this about the quality of metafilter or is this about semantics of potty mouth durability or is this a reminder about self-policing or is this about respect for others.

or this about shopping.
posted by clavdivs at 12:20 PM on April 29, 2004

It's about skull-fucked verbs nouns.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:27 PM on April 29, 2004

It's too bad that there's not another word meaning "coward" that (in American English, anyway) has the emotional resonance and, er, subtlety that "pussy" does.

"Wuss" isn't bad. "Sissy" when delivered in the right voice can be brutally withering. "Chickenshit" is a good fallback.

I suppose I also rue the apparent non-existence of a laudatory—or at least vaguely positive—word for "vagina". There should be one. Because, you know, vaginas are way cool.

"the promised land," works for me.


Just doing my part.
posted by jonmc at 12:29 PM on April 29, 2004

I suppose I also rue the apparent non-existence of a laudatory—or at least vaguely positive—word for "vagina". There should be one. Because, you know, vaginas are way cool.

I really like fanny, in the Moll Flanders/ British sense. We Portuguese have a variety of user-friendly designations which might be easily adapted:

- pachacha, with its echoes of cha cha cha. Here's a popular Portuguese nursery rhyme:

Ó senhor doutor,
Que vou eu fazer?
Queimei a pachacha
Com água a ferver!

[Doctor, doctor
Don't know what I oughta do
I've burnt my little fanny
With boiling water - ooh!]

- the Brazilian xoxota, which rhymes well with pichota, the male member.

- various names based on bivalve molluscs: ostra (oyster); berbigão (cockle, would go nicely with cock); ameijoa (clam - and don't forget the liquor); lapa (limpet clam, because you tend to cling to them). This seems the best way to go, imho.

- various names based on agreeable furry or feathery animals: passarinha (tweety bird); ratinha (little mouse); tigresa (tigress); ouriço (hedgehog).

The key to proper usage is to adapt the terms used by the actual owners, i.e. women.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:38 PM on April 29, 2004

Er, adopt, not adapt.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:42 PM on April 29, 2004

I was out shopping all day. What'd I miss?
posted by DrJohnEvans at 12:45 PM on April 29, 2004

History of the Pilonidal Cyst
posted by clavdivs at 12:45 PM on April 29, 2004

Miguel, here in the States "fanny" simply means rear end, as in butt. It was quite a shock to me to discover that it is a bit different in Brit English.
posted by konolia at 12:47 PM on April 29, 2004

"Doctor, doctor
Don't know what I oughta do
I've burnt my little fanny
With boiling water - ooh!"

Good lord! Are you all sadists?! Ouch!

(However, being well aquainted with the Opies' work, I have no illusions about folklore intended for children.)
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:54 PM on April 29, 2004

the Brazilian xoxota

See, this I would use. Repeatedly.

Miguel, how do you pronounce this word?
posted by BlueTrain at 12:56 PM on April 29, 2004

Because, you know, vaginas are way cool.

Except when they're hot, which makes everybody hot, which is way cool in a hot kinda way.
posted by ashbury at 1:02 PM on April 29, 2004

shaw-shaw-tuh, with the "aw" pronounced as openly as possible, as in shore.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:03 PM on April 29, 2004

Pudendum - The external organs of generation, especially of the female; the vulva..[Latin, neuter gerundive of pudre, to make or be ashamed.]

"Shame". Cowardice. Odd how the external female genitalia are so often mocked or used derogatorily by males. Try pregnancy and childbirth and the billion other brave acts of women sometime, gents.

Don't use the word pussy 'round here unless you're prepared for a tidal wave of hilariously indignant emails from rcade accusing you of outright misogyny, among other things, despite that no females in the conversation actually found the word offensive. Trust me on this one.
posted by dhoyt at 9:22 AM PST on April 29

dhoyt, this isn't the first time you've gutlessly criticized someone in a thread in which they weren't even participating. And this time, you seemed to feel the need to bring it up in terms of an email conversation.

Since you fancy yourself Mr. Orifice and an expert on what's offensive for everyone else and all, exactly how pussy/wuss/sissy/chickenshit/lapa/passarinha/ratinha
and offensive would you describe your act?
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 1:28 PM on April 29, 2004

Since you fancy yourself Mr. Orifice

I've actually know three people whose last name was Orifice.

Recess was hellish, I imagine.
posted by jonmc at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2004

I think that there is no reason to use slang terms for either male or female genitalia as an insult.


what about "asshole"?
I'm not kidding.
isn't "asshole" gender-neutral?
could we consider that a more politically-correct insult, then?
posted by matteo at 1:57 PM on April 29, 2004

I don't know why but I rarely if ever call a woman an asshole. It just sounds odd somehow.
posted by jonmc at 2:01 PM on April 29, 2004

As the proud possessor of a fearless pussy, let me just say that quonsar was obviously praising zoogleplex. It would be hard to imagine otherwise.
posted by taz at 2:24 PM on April 29, 2004

Is it cool to use FUCKWIT again? I like the word and it's been morphed in my everyday speaking into "Fucknut", "Fuckrod" and many other delightful "Fuck+three-letter-word" combos.

Like:

"Newbies are all Fuckhats anyway."
posted by eyeballkid at 2:49 PM on April 29, 2004

Perhaps we should try and be civil to all members, not just the new ones?
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the concept, can you explain further?

quonsar was right - if you bow down to every potentially possible maybe threat, you are a pussy. At least, if you are male you are. I would never call a woman a pussy (or a prick, or an arsehole, like jonmc), it just seems wrong somehow. If he has used a word like coward, it would be more insulting because it is a formal insult rather than the more casual "ah, you're a pussy". I don't know what to use to rib a woman for being less than brave - perhaps because women are both not expected to be brave in the same way that men are and, at the same time, are intrinsically brave by nature.
posted by dg at 3:00 PM on April 29, 2004

How PC and not just in the Prince sense.
posted by john at 3:13 PM on April 29, 2004

"Newbies are all Fuckhats anyway."

Hey, shut up, Fuckears.
(Hey, that is fun).
posted by Capn at 3:26 PM on April 29, 2004

quonsar again makes everything right in the world. I was considering visiting that very thread and calling people a bunch of pussies last night...then the server went on its nightly meltdown, so I went to bed. It makes me happy to know quonsar was carrying the flame of abusing the gutless in my place while I slept.
posted by Jimbob at 3:53 PM on April 29, 2004

But Jimbob, why have gutless in your place in the first place? ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 4:04 PM on April 29, 2004

Of all the idioms for the female genitalia, it's the best one. Most females I know agree with me on this.

I once used the word "pussy" with a male friend who chided me for being a misogynist. "I've got a pussy, therefore I can say pussy, you pussy," I snapped. He remained nonp(l)ussed.

I know the word "yoni" is supposed to be a very positive, tantra-riffic word for pussy, but because it's always used so damn earnestly and also conjures up unfortunate mental images of Yanni fucking Joni Mitchell, I am unable to endorse its usage with anything other than a smirk.
posted by scody at 4:05 PM on April 29, 2004

I know the word "yoni" is supposed to be a very positive, tantra-riffic word for pussy


???
posted by matteo at 4:11 PM on April 29, 2004

Mrs Slocombe's Pussy
posted by inpHilltr8r at 4:18 PM on April 29, 2004

how nice! i spent the day digging in a garden and doing zen stuff with rocks and mulch. and i walk in and find you've all been discussing me! yeah, it was a little rude, but only a little. the worst thing about it is after i said it zoogleplex said he holds me in high esteem after reading me for two years. i'm still recovering from that one - could the world really be so different from everything i've known it to be? is it possible i am a revered mefi member? perhaps bush is a good president? maybe iraq had it coming? NO! THIS IS NOT MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE. THIS IS NOT MY FANCY CAR...

oh, i agree jpoulos, about not bricking newb's in the face, but i can't seem to keep track of who's newb and who isn't!
posted by quonsar at 4:26 PM on April 29, 2004

No thanks for the mental image of Yanni & Joni, scody, that's even worse than "Joanie Loves Chachi" (but not quite as bad as Yanni & Chachi)...

Although quonsar "doing zen stuff with rocks and mulch" is kinda disturbing too.

Having the last name of "Wittler", I'd like to say that I have long ago reached my lifetime quota of being called "Fuckwit" (and most of those who have done it thought they were being so-o-o original). I'm kinda partial these days to compound words starting with "ass" OTHER than the obvious hole. "Asshat". "Assclown". "Assface". "AssFilter". (somebody stop me before I get to "Asscroft")
posted by wendell at 4:37 PM on April 29, 2004

quonsar, you are a beloved character here on MeFi much in the same way Otis Campbell was a beloved character on "The Andy Griffith Show". (Personally, I'd be delighted to someday be as popular a Floyd the Barber)
posted by wendell at 4:42 PM on April 29, 2004

matteo: You want yoni? I got yer yoni.

wendell, given Migs' discussion of the word "pachacha" upthread, I am now extra-amused by the notion of "Joanie Loves Chachi." Who knew that a spinoff of "Happy Days" was really just a punning Portuguese in-joke?

quonsar, you silly pachacha, don't you know we all love you, man?
posted by scody at 4:48 PM on April 29, 2004

All of the Aesir would have been utterly wrecked by Korsakoff's Syndrome had they not had Loki to give them something to do.
posted by snarfodox at 4:54 PM on April 29, 2004

Scody: do you even know that "Joanie Loves Chachi" was an adaptation of the racy, Salazar-era Portuguese soap "João Loves Pachacha", all about this guy called João...well.

Me, I'm amazed that such an educated fella as Matteo has never read the Kama Sutra - I guess Italian babies get it downloaded automatically in their mothers' milk, as one can't honestly say they're absolutely indifferent to sex.

But the real reason for this post, apart from lamenting dear quonsar's downfall into eco-farming - if you have any mulching to do, mulch it here! That's what the noobs are for! - is to defend Joni Mitchell. Old-timer stuff, I know, but when I was 13 or so I got a real rise out of seeing the sacred Joni's bottom on the inner cover of "For The Roses". This was a long time before Yoko Ono displayed her iffy and icky yoni on "Two Virgins". And much better!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:26 PM on April 29, 2004

Instant MeFi History: pachacha used to be my password here before some clever Trevor cottoned on - how he did it I shall never know - and started messing with my user page, forcing me to e-mail Matt for a less user-friendly word. I'd never reveal this devious reveller's monicker - but suffice it to say that the letters "rodii" are featured in it. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:38 PM on April 29, 2004

You people are picking on quonsar just because she's an independent, outspoken woman.

FREE QUONSAR NOW!
posted by 111 at 5:48 PM on April 29, 2004

Scody, somehow you managed to express my reservations about the use of the word yoni in terms that, although truly bizarre, are also scarily precise.

I've decided I'm partial to pachacha. (The word, that is. I've long been aware that I'm partial to Pachacha, The Organ.) I think I'm going to start casually using it as a playful term of endearment with friends and, perhaps, carefully selected loved ones.

It is odd, isn't it?, that asshole has a strong masculine connotation. Is this true of arsehole in Brit English? Typically, in American English we'd say she's being a bitch instead of she's being an asshole. But I'm all in favor of the use of asshole in a gender-neutral fashion.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:39 PM on April 29, 2004

Good for you, Ethereal Bligh! Have you noticed that the most popular Portuguese and Brazilian words for pussy (though pussy is very, very good and should not be frivolous and ungratefully abandoned) both have repeated syllables? "Cha" in the case of pachacha and "xo" in the case of xoxota. Also the "sh" sound, to be interpreted either in the enthusiastic "choo choo!" sense or in the secretive, whispering, erotic "Shhh...!" sense. :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:46 PM on April 29, 2004

FREE QUONSAR NOW!

You mean you guys have been paying?
posted by inpHilltr8r at 6:50 PM on April 29, 2004

just because she's an independent, outspoken woman.

*pinches 111's butt, spits tobaccy juice*
posted by quonsar at 7:15 PM on April 29, 2004

"You mean you guys have been paying?"—inpHilltr8r

I've been leaving the money on the dresser. Boy, do I feel silly.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:23 PM on April 29, 2004

For me, "asshole" carries the connotation of being the bottom in a male homosexual pairing. An unwilling bottom at that. Everytime I hear it said I hear the same assertion of "I'm the penetrator, you're the penetrated" that's also in "fuck you." I often hear them together "fuck you, asshole" for which the connotations just reinforce and emphasize each other. But this is just a projection. There's usually a note of protest in it too, as if to say, "you just fucked me, well I'm gonna fuck you right back!" It's a verbal lashing out in helplessness, anger and despair. A freudian might see it as an impulsive projection of one's own situation onto the other who put one in it. I think this a good interpretation.

But sometimes the dominator just wants to relish his position over that of dominated. "Fuck you" is too frequently used as a gesture of powerless defiance as above. "Asshole" and "cocksucker" still allow the dominated to feel their masculinity intact. To express total ownership, nothing less than "pussy" will do. As in, "You're my pussy; I'll fuck you whenever I like." In this way, any perceived expression of weakness can be used so as to express one man's dominion over another.

And that's the ugly truth of verbal dominance games, as I see 'em.
posted by wobh at 10:15 PM on April 29, 2004

The second to last sentence should read more like: "In this way, any percieved weakness can be used as an excuse to express one man's dominion over another."
posted by wobh at 10:20 PM on April 29, 2004

I usually give people an option: you're a cocksucker/pussy-eater/cunt/prick/gangrenous limb. This serves the dual purpose of either allowing the person to choose the least offensive insult or--and this is important--choosing the most offensive of the insults, depending on the character of the person I'm mindlessly attacking.

Got that, you wilting lilies?
posted by The God Complex at 11:12 PM on April 29, 2004

For me, "asshole" carries the connotation of being the bottom in a male homosexual pairing.

That's certainly a novel way to think of it, but I don't think you can expect others to share this conception.
posted by kindall at 11:23 PM on April 29, 2004

Actually, we should be able to come up with our very own phonetically arousing alternatives.

Instead of

pussy -- dick

how about

shindesta -- shindau

?
posted by Opus Dark at 3:36 AM on April 30, 2004

matteo: You want yoni? I got yer yoni.


*considers calling his good Israeli friend named Yoni, to politely break the news, remembers Yoni's penchant for the martial arts and general bad-assdom, reconsiders, hangs up*

and no Miguel, never read it. really. I saw some pictures once and frankly I found them quite funny. like ridiculous funny, not funny sexy. the need to break several vertebrae during sex currently escapes me. but maybe it's just me. plus, I have a pretty bad back.
posted by matteo at 5:11 AM on April 30, 2004

not to mention, Miguel, I'm not nearly as well-read as you probably think. I'm at heart a sports-pages kind of a guy

posted by matteo at 5:13 AM on April 30, 2004

For me, "asshole" carries the connotation of being the bottom in a male homosexual pairing...A freudian might see it as an impulsive projection of one's own situation onto the other who put one in it. I think this a good interpretation.

I think a freudiean would see it as an impulsive projection of one's desire to be the bottom in a male homosexual pairing.
posted by bingo at 7:02 AM on April 30, 2004

your soap's on the floor, wobh.
posted by quonsar at 7:25 AM on April 30, 2004

I am so glad that what was topic about hurt feelings has become a quest to find positive names for what John Lee Hooker once referred to as your Trick Bag.
posted by Capn at 7:30 AM on April 30, 2004

and that's the magic that is metatalk, Capn!
posted by quonsar at 7:50 AM on April 30, 2004

so, no Ned Beatty jokes?
posted by clavdivs at 8:43 AM on April 30, 2004

ow! ow! ow! ow!

Hey have you guys noticed that "The Unblinking Eye" is exactly like "The Wreck of the Hesperus"?

*tips fuckhat*
posted by petebest at 9:39 AM on April 30, 2004

I don't know why but I rarely if ever call a woman an asshole. It just sounds odd somehow.

My feelings about this have somehow changed over the last 5 or 10 years. I know in high school I'd never have referred to myself or other women as "asshole" but these days I do it without a second thought (not that I refer to anyone as asshole that often or without thinking; I just mean re: the gender specificity). It must have been a conscious choice, but I don't remember any sort of turning point :) in particular.

I use "bitch" for men sometimes, but I think these days I just don't use that word for anyone that commonly. I guess it is specifically gender-definite anyway, so if you use it for men, part of the put down is taken to be the feminization; for women, it's just that they're being jerky in a "typically female" way. Like when a man is a dick, he's being jerky in a "typically male" way.

As for "pussy", I think jonmc's right that many women think it's among the best words for twat we've got (most of the technical words fail merely by referring to some particular part of the entire). As a term for a coward, I wonder what the relation is between pussy & scaredy-cat? Because pussy as a term for one's kitty is recent enough, or it wouldn't have been a nick for high society women, as second rate comedies keep reminding us.
posted by mdn at 2:50 PM on April 30, 2004

Well now. This thread is definately MeFi's finest hour.
posted by MidasMulligan at 4:17 PM on April 30, 2004

There are several levels of the use of the word "bitch" as an insult.

1. The classic, but boringly obvious, implication that a female, in displeasing the speaker, has sunk to a sub-human level, or demonstrated that she is at this level consistently.

Example: quonsar is a bitch.

2. The use of the term to indicate the gender of a particular person, with said indication mostly serving as a vehicle to demean the entire gender.

Example: Did you see that pic of the meetup? Turns out that quonsar is a bitch!

3. As a way of demeaning someone by suggesting that they are acting in a feminine way. In this case, the insult to the female gender as a whole is implied, but the empasis is on the insult to the person in question, who can be of either gender.

Example: All quonsar does is bitch, bitch, bitch.

4. As a way of demeaning a man by suggesting that he is acting in a feminine way. In this case, the insult to females in general is more prominent, but still takes a backseat to the insult being leveled at the male in question.

Example: jonmc, stop being such a little bitch.

5. As an explicit reference to the relationship between men in prison. Of course, the implication that females are lesser beings is there, but it's put across more as an understood fact than as an assertion in itself.

Example: I'm going to dress you up like quonsar and make you my bitch.

6. As an insult to a man, using #5 in a non-literal way but still suggesting the dominant-submissive relationship that goes with the territory, and the objectification of women being present, but hovering in the distant background.

Example: At the meetup tomorrow, I am going to challenge jonmc to a game of darts and make him my bitch.

7. As an intellectual abstraction-cum-insult, in which all the implications about women are, in a sort of bricolage fashion, co-opted without actually being accepted, setting up a series of implied "as if"s for the sake of the insult.

Example: You just ashed keef on my dissertation. Gonna buy me some more toner, bitch?
posted by bingo at 5:24 PM on April 30, 2004

now i've got that damn madonna song stuck in my head.

gonna dress you up like quonsar, oh! oh!
posted by quonsar at 6:03 PM on April 30, 2004

Waitasec. You wear clothes now, Q?
posted by arto at 11:36 PM on April 30, 2004

There are several levels of the use of the word "bitch" as an insult.

1. The classic, but boringly obvious, implication that a female, in displeasing the speaker...

*falls asleep, drools on keyboard*
posted by The God Complex at 3:23 AM on May 1, 2004

kuppink -- ubbikun

ungasha -- shagund
posted by Opus Dark at 4:53 AM on May 1, 2004

kuppink -- ubbikun
ob-la-di -- ob-la-da

what about "asshole"?
I'm not kidding.
isn't "asshole" gender-neutral?
could we consider that a more politically-correct insult, then?
Because asshole is akin to calling someone a jerk. If the attempt was to label an act weak, then pussy seems to be the winner. It works. Bothers me that it's meant to convey weakness though.

"Wuss" isn't bad.
Wuss is weenie's way of saying puss or pussy.

When I picture someone being called a pussy I see them cowering in a ball. A weenie is some little boy who runs home to mama.

On Preview/Spell Check: Poor Ashley
posted by Feisty at 7:57 PM on May 1, 2004